Does Krishna want us to discard the gods?

[Guest guest]

In the gita, Krishna clearly says that devata worship is useless and that He (Krishna) alone must be worshipped. Does that mean other gods such as hanuman, ganesh must be abandoned? How is this any diff. from Islam or Christianity which also believes in one god and commands you to discard other gods?

[Guest guest]

Similar is written in other texts: http://www.ishwar.com is a good site to read on it.

 

 

BHAGAVAD GITA CH.7

20

Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures.

 

 

BHAGAVAD GITA CH.7

23

Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.

 

 

 

You must remember that there is truly only one GOD.

[Sephiroth 0]

It also said that God WILL give whatever devotees asked (through the demi gods). How they use it depends on the devotees.

 

If devotees use it (the reward for their penance) in a good way (as a devotion to Him), then it will bring forth good Karma and closer ties to Him.

 

If the devotees use it for material gains, it will bring bad karma and move them away from Him.

 

In the end, He don't lose (or gain) anything. The winner or loser are the one who worship demigods and receive the boons for their devotion.

[barney 0]

The choice of destination is yours and so all are winners. A choses to do good he is blessed with good life while B choses to do bad and he is blessed with bad life. So both are winners. The choice is yours so pick what you wish to attain.

[Sephiroth 0]

The choice of destination is yours and so all are winners. A choses to do good he is blessed with good life while B choses to do bad and he is blessed with bad life. So both are winners. The choice is yours so pick what you wish to attain.

 

Good life or bad life, all this is just illusions. The ultimate goal for God's religions is to return back to God, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Sure, you can daydream about Heaven, but you will lose chance to return to God in a lifetime. Thus you are a loser for losing the Ultimate Goal.

 

In Hindusm, the Ultimate Goal is Mukti. In Buddhism, Ultimate Goal is Enlightnment. In Jewish Tradition, the Ultimate Goal is to reach God's Abode - the top most level of Heaven where God resides (according to the Studies of Kaballah).

 

People say they win because they receive something is because they do not want to think about what they lost. Such people are ones with weak-mind but don't accept their own weakness and strive ahead.

 

A person who is weak and accept his fault and live to his best will get another chance in the next lifetime to be closer to Him. That is Laws of Karma.

 

A person who is weak but continue to live in such state, not wanting to change and improve himself will forever be afar from God.

[barney 0]

Eveybody wants to be closer to God but does it happen? No! and do you know why? It is because the choice was yours. Your past karma determinds your mind set. You can wear a yellow robe and chant hare krishna and sit in the temple the whole 365 days but if your destination is not so than the grace of the Lord would not be upon you. It is HE who choses the right time and place may be not this birth but the next and all depands of your action. So, please do not say it is foolish thinking. IF Krishna wants all to follow him why than Sihva, Gansesha, Suria, Ma Durga, Murugan and many other temples in this world.

 

Everything has its purpose and that is the order of nature. Men are just trying to be too smart that's all. You will only know the truth if you had discovered yourself.

 

 

[Sephiroth 0]

Eveybody wants to be closer to God but does it happen? No! and do you know why? It is because the choice was yours. Your past karma determinds your mind set.

 

People cannot get close to God because :

 

1. They follow Corrupting Religion which doesn't come from God. Even your Puranas full of stories on how Demons do all sort of things to pull devotees to their cults.

 

2. They have too much Ego and Attachments. Not everyone are equals. I for one do not believe that you and I (or anyone for that matter) born as equals.

 

3. They are confused and do not wish to pursuit the correct way - like Christians and Muslims.

 

You can wear a yellow robe and chant hare krishna and sit in the temple the whole 365 days but if your destination is not so than the grace of the Lord would not be upon you.

 

Exactly WHERE did it say that God wants you to sit 365 days in a temple, chanting his name?

 

If He did, what are you doing to do for food? How is Science and Technology going to prosper? Who going to educate your children (assuming you will have time to have one)?

 

Living a proper life means living it for His sake, deattaching yourself from your activities and submitting all to God as stated in the Gita. NOT leaving everything and chanting all the time.

 

BUT, if you wish to pursuit such, then go and become a Buddhist monk. That is the only way I could see possible.

 

You will only know the truth if you had discovered yourself.

 

I know the Truth, thank you very much.

[Guest guest]

 

Krishna refers to the worshiping gods as Nirguna and formless. It could be your own favourite god or favourite guru. To worship them as formless and nirguna, you sieze to worship for material desires or other egoistic objectives. Thus you worship no demigod, while you take the name of your favourite god. This is how most hindu gods and popular gurus have nirguna, niroopa in their slokas.

 

There are people like viashnavas who worship krishna himself as saguna and with his form. Here the vaishnavas worship krishna as a demigod.

 

Krishna refers to such people as having material desires, and of lower intelligence.

 

[krishnadasa 0]

All the demigods are souls which are much advanced than human beings and so are the great devotees of the lord as well

 

Krishna asks to worship him directly as one can see the person who worships demigods sometimes start thinkin that the demigod itself is the supremelord and by thinkin so that person will commit a big sin. But however there are people who worship the demigods to get the Shudda Bhakthi for the Krishna and such devotion is considered to be good.

 

Hari hari bol

[Guest guest]

quote the chapter....

[barney 0]

@@@@People cannot get close to God because :

 

1. They follow Corrupting Religion which doesn't come from God. Even your Puranas full of stories on how Demons do all sort of things to pull devotees to their cults.

 

2. They have too much Ego and Attachments. Not everyone are equals. I for one do not believe that you and I (or anyone for that matter) born as equals.

 

3. They are confused and do not wish to pursuit the correct way - like Christians and Muslims.@@@@@@@

 

 

Is that so?

 

Who told you the the Christians and Muslims are following the correct way? There are several sect in Christianity that contradicts the bible. I can give refferences but would that help change your perception?

 

Their approach differs. In Iraq there is this Muslim sect that go into trance to cut out their tounges or gouge their eyes as a sacrifice to Allah. Know your facts before you speak.

 

There are also Muslims who believe in their gurus to be have special powers and after their death the followers visit the grave to give offerings and other rituals. But is this really permited in Islam?

 

Hinduism may have different school of thoughts but the goal is one. 'MOKSHA' and to attain that one has many ways of approach. Leave the corrupt aside as these souls are destined to meet their match but those who do not seek to be reborn again have a better approach and understand of Hinduism. So do not say NONSENCE.

 

What makes you make such a statement? If people cannot get closer to God then who can? ANIMIALS?

 

 

 

 

[Sephiroth 0]

Who told you the the Christians and Muslims are following the correct way?

 

Christians and Muslims are NOT following the correct way.

 

Their approach differs. In Iraq there is this Muslim sect that go into trance to cut out their tounges or gouge their eyes as a sacrifice to Allah. Know your facts before you speak.

 

There are also Muslims who believe in their gurus to be have special powers and after their death the followers visit the grave to give offerings and other rituals. But is this really permited in Islam?

 

Both are not permitted according to Islam, so its a cult, just like Islam is.

 

What makes you make such a statement? If people cannot get closer to God then who can? ANIMIALS?

 

Everything that has a Soul which able to abtain intelligence and knowledge CAN get close to God.

 

In Hindusm, Hanuman is close to God-incarnated Rama and Hanuman happens to be an Ape. What about the large bird - Jantayu, who gave his life to protect Sita?

 

Also, there's a lot of example of man and beasts getting closer to God. All because they did duties toward God and according to Dharma. Man who behave like animals has NO place in midst God.

[Guest guest]

Open your eyes to your religion. It's no longer as grand as a hall. It's only a hut. Can this hut accommodate me even if I'm willing to enter it.

[Sephiroth 0]

Hut is fine by my standards. Small, clean, peaceful and self-suficient.

 

If you want something grand to accommodate your ego, so somewhere else. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[barney 0]

Any faith if propagated by a leader is a cult. Christianity is CULT, Islam is a CULT and so is ISKCON. Such following only emphasises on an individual and tries to prove that it is the only way to kingdom of God. We have seen many such cults mushrooming all over the globe.

 

The particular animal and bird you mentioned only happened in the previous yugas. You cannot see Krishna in his form in this yuga or even the next. Every yuga HE[supreme Brahman] changes his get up. So do not dream of seeing the blueish boy with a flute anymore. Why are you living in the past yuga. We are now in the era of computer technology and the Supreme Brahman would think of some other way to be nearer to man. May be the guy next to you could be him but you silly fellow could not make him out but instead bragging to him about the blueish boy with flute in hand who would hang around cows and girls. Get real man the charactor you dream of is out of date and you can waite till doomsday but HE would not come. Why? That's because the Christians and the Muslims are making fun od him.

 

But seeing Shiva, Durga and Murugan they have fear in their heart. The appearence of these icons have a message. Do not take God for grunted coz at times HE can punish you like a father punishing his naughty son. You need to learn more about RUDRA, SURIA[the giver of energy], DURGA [mother of all Gods] and MURUGAN[the warrior God] who slained Soorapadma. The world is not of Krishanas alone but of Shivas, Durgas, Ganeshas, Murugas and Vengadeshas.

 

May you gain more knowledge and receive the Grace of Mother Durga.

[Sephiroth 0]

Any faith if propagated by a leader is a cult. Christianity is CULT, Islam is a CULT and so is ISKCON. Such following only emphasises on an individual and tries to prove that it is the only way to kingdom of God. We have seen many such cults mushrooming all over the globe.

 

Fine ... what does it have to do with me?

 

Get real man the charactor you dream of is out of date and you can waite till doomsday but HE would not come. Why? That's because the Christians and the Muslims are making fun od him.

 

Hmph ... such statement comes from a person who doesn't know Spiritualism. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

In Kaballah's form, I see Hindu God (single one), the three forms of Trinity and various Gods and Goddess which branch downward to the lowest physical aspect (of the World), yet someone who calls himself Hindu (but I assume you are not) cannot see anything past his own illusion. You are indeed trully a blind man. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

The world is not of Krishanas alone but of Shivas, Durgas, Ganeshas, Murugas and Vengadeshas.

 

And where did I say it was about Krishna alone?

[barney 0]

You are contradictiing you own statement. Go back a few batch and you will see what I mean.

 

May be may be not but does that matter? Spritualism is a different matter altogether what we are discussing here.

 

Yes, you may be right. I'm am blind outside but have a cklear vision inside. Any more sarcasm?

 

Well, try to recall your postings. That would jog your brain a bit. Have a nice day son.

[Sephiroth 0]

Laws of Engagement in Discussion (and combat) is :

 

1. He who claims something MUST prove his claims.

2. He who states something MUST shows source to back it up.

3. He shouldn't twist and turn his statements when going to lose a discussion.

 

This is among Rules of Engagament in Discussion in a Forum.

 

If you say I have contradicted my own statement, it is your responsiblity (NOT MINE) to show clearly where and when I have contradicted myself. I don't remember any.

 

Till you do, I will assume I have not errored in my statement.

 

And DO NOT called me Son. I'm not your Son ... and you are not my equal (or even same caste for that matter). Also, did I say I was a guy in the first place?

[Guest guest]

I was told by a Hindu swami that the 'gods' are not to be taken literely but they represent different aspects of Brahman and only Brahman truly exists, the gods or devas are mythological and only exist in stories but not in reality. When you pray to these gods you are only praying to that aspect of Brahman.

 

Maybe because Sri Krishna equates himself with Brahman in the Gita, he is hinting that other forms are useless or lesser. But Sri Krishna also says "those who worship other gods, even though in error as long as they worship with true faith they are really worshipping me".

[barney 0]

#If you say I have contradicted my own statement, it is your responsiblity (NOT MINE) to show clearly where and when I have contradicted myself. I don't remember any.#

 

If you do not remember that's your fault. I've dected your contradiction and it is your responsibility to recall where and when. Anyway it is not cardinal sin and you would not be punished for that.

 

If you are not a male than you must be a female. So I shall call you darling. If you are not both what shall I call you then?? The ball is in your court. I see you are a temperamental character and that is bad for your health. Learn to be humble and you'll see the wisdom of life.

 

[Sephiroth 0]

If you do not remember that's your fault. I've dected your contradiction and it is your responsibility to recall where and when. Anyway it is not cardinal sin and you would not be punished for that.

 

Wrong ... you claim I'm wrong. You show where I'm wrong. I don't have to do anything or take responsibility for something you think I have errored. Frankly speaking, I think you are wasting my time.

 

If you are not a male than you must be a female. So I shall call you darling. If you are not both what shall I call you then??

 

Call me Sephiroth ... that is my chosen name. Just as I don't give a damn about your background, I will not give a damn of giving any information on my personal life either.

[Sephiroth 0]

I was told by a Hindu swami that the 'gods' are not to be taken literely but they represent different aspects of Brahman and only Brahman truly exists, the gods or devas are mythological and only exist in stories but not in reality. When you pray to these gods you are only praying to that aspect of Brahman.

 

I remember one Hindu during my Studies. He always meditate whenever he has chance and talk about God and Gods. After finishing the studies, we lost contact about a year. When I meet him again, he says "There is no God, I couldn't find him".

 

So, don't simply fooled by Swamis and so-called "Holy men".

 

Maybe because Sri Krishna equates himself with Brahman in the Gita, he is hinting that other forms are useless or lesser.

 

But Sri Krishna also says "those who worship other gods, even though in error as long as they worship with true faith they are really worshipping me".

 

Hint versus actual statement about Demi-god worshipping, which do you wish to believe?

 

If Sri Krishna spoke (directly and NOT a Hint) that worshipping other Gods with true faith is equals to worshipping Him, then that is acceptance of demi-gods worship in the Gita.

[Guest guest]

Sephiroth is all noise. Wonderful guy.

[barney 0]

###Wrong ... you claim I'm wrong. You show where I'm wrong. I don't have to do anything or take responsibility for something you think I have errored. Frankly speaking, I think you are wasting my time***.

 

The only way to gain resoect is firstly to give it and give regard to all, rather than be selfish.

 

##Call me Sephiroth ... that is my chosen name. Just as I don't give a damn about your background, I will not give a damn of giving any information on my personal life either.##

 

I did not say or brag about my background. You are a strange fellow with a strange name. "Damn" is your common word of communication I persume.

 

Anyway, word of advice from an old man. Before performing any task, stop for a moment, think of the effect it will have and then begin. The four things that have spoiled life are "I" and "Mine", "You and "Yours". Forget them and you will be much more happier in life. No matter how great your words may be but you will be judged by your words and action. Cool down and have a glass of water.