Worship of Siva versus Worship of Lord Vishnu

August 3, 2005

And obviously: "Eko Rudro na dvittiya tastu", does not refer to Rudra but to some one else.

The Supreme Purusha to whom: "na dvittiya tastu" refers is named Rudra but Rudra is actually not that Supreme Purusha .

Yes it sounds logical. Brilliant logicians.

This part was answered before.

1. Since the being called Rudra in Svetasvatara creates Hiranyagarba(BrahmA) and since Shatapatha Brahmana confirms birth of RudrA through Hranyagarba(BrahmA), this being RudrA cannot be referring to umapati.

2. Some of the verses in Svetasvatara are exactly same as Purusa Sukta. Purusa Sukta confirms that this BEING is Lord of Hree and Lakshmi.

Point 1 confirms that this BEING is NOT RudrA, while point 2 confirms that this BEING IS Lord VISNU.

Very simple logic.

Making unnecessary comments on somebody shows that advaitis are just frustrated and cannot offer any counter logic.

Do not get frstrated Mr. Guest and Atanu. Therer is no point in it, as Vedas declare Supremacy of Lord Visnu period.

Just think about Shatapatha Brahmana verses where RudrA says he is subject to sins. RudrA is not paramatma for this one reason only.

About 'Suma' in 'Sumajjaanaye' becoming 'Soma', you got to admit it is funny.

The ABout Soma being father of Visnu, it is already answered in context. Visnu there refers to Yajamana and Soma refers to creeper. If you read in context you would understand.

If you just copy and paste from some English guy's mistransations, then you are not qualified to read and understand Vedas.

August 3, 2005

Ravi, you have abused me (and others also) using words such as crazy, mad, idiot, etc. etc. That shows your evolution and not mine.

I can only say that you are not god fearing. You do not have the fear of lying, if you really are a Sanskrit pandit as you claim repeatedly.

Or, you actually are not a pandit but you are pretending. You are as ignorant or more than kanna and me.

You should know that “vai” means “truly “.

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"sarvo vai rudras tasmai rudrAya namo astu|

purusho vai rudrassan maho namo astu|

visvam bhUtam bhuvanam chitram bahudhA jAtham

jAyamAnanchayat|sarvo hyesha rudras tasmai rudrAya namo astu|"

Meaning:

"All these are verily (called) Rudra. Salutations to that Rudra. Parama Purusha is (called) Rudra. Salutations to Him again and again. all this universe, all these entities, all the wondrous worlds that were variedly born or being born - all that is verily this Rudra alone. to that Rudra, we offer our salutations."

the verse says "sarvo vai rudra", "purusho vai rudra".

thus it is the Supreme Brahman, the Parama Purusha, who is called as Rudra here. not the other way around. atanu does not know sanskrit and so let me explain so that he might understand.

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Where from the word “called” is inserted at two places is beyond comprehension.

Then “vaí” is an emphasis and affirmation, generally placed after a word and laying stress on it (it is usually translatable 'indeed', 'truly', 'certainly', 'verily', 'just' etc.).

So:

“SARVO VAI RUDRA” MEANS RUDRA TRULY IS ALL.

“PURUSHO VAI RUDRA” MEANS PURUSHA TRULY IS RUDRA.

Namah to your fabrication power. Lord, namah to your delusion power.

And again I would say that you are not spiritual and religious person. Else you would know, (unlike westerners) that SOMA is not juice but Soma is the KING. Soma is S-Uma. When Uma stirs, creation starts – and that is flow or vibration of Soma.

This is what is said of Soma in Rig Veda.

RV Book 1 HYMN XLIII. Rudra.

1 WHAT shall we sing to Rudra, strong, most bounteous, excellently wise, That shall be dearest to his heart?

-------

4 To Rudra Lord of sacrifice, of hymns and balmy medicines, We pray for joy and health and strength.

5 He shines in splendour like the Sun, refulgent as bright gold is he, The good, the best among the Gods.

7 O Soma set thou upon us the glory of a hundred men, The great renown of mighty chiefs.

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9 SOMA! HEAD, CENTRAL POINT, LOVE THESE; SOMA! KNOW THESE AS SERVING THEE, CHILDREN OF THEE IMMORTAL, AT THE HIGHEST PLACE OF HOLY LAW.

But Soma is born from Lord Parjanya – a name of Rudra.

Best wishes. Be more contemplative on Lord Vishnu. That’s all I can say to you.

August 3, 2005

*****Making unnecessary comments on somebody shows that advaitis are just frustrated and cannot offer any counter logic. ******

Who is Advaiti and who is making comments?

**************

“And obviously: "Eko Rudro na dvittiya tastu", does not refer to Rudra but to some one else.

The Supreme Purusha to whom: "na dvittiya tastu" refers is named Rudra but Rudra is actually not that Supreme Purusha .

Brilliant logicians.”

This part was answered before.

1. Since the being called Rudra in Svetasvatara creates Hiranyagarba(BrahmA) and since Shatapatha Brahmana confirms birth of RudrA through Hranyagarba(BrahmA), this being RudrA cannot be referring to umapati.

2. Some of the verses in Svetasvatara are exactly same as Purusa Sukta. Purusa Sukta confirms that this BEING is Lord of Hree and Lakshmi.

**************************

Kanna, you are too innocent to understand: Eko Rudro na dvittiya tastu, which means GOD IS ONE WITHOUT A SECOND.

He alone creates Hirayanagarbha, then as Hiryanagarbha, He himself gives birth to mind born devas and sages. He alone is JIva.

"sarvo vai rudras tasmai rudrAya namo astu|

purusho vai rudrassan maho namo astu|”

Sarvo vai rudra: All is truly Rudra. purusho vai rudra: Purusha is truly Rudra.

Kanna, I do not mind your abuses at all, since that is expected. If any day, what all has been written here registers in you, that will be my fruit, even at the cost of all the abuses.

Best wishes. Be more contemplative on Lord Vishnu. That’s all I can say to you.

August 3, 2005

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About 'Suma' in 'Sumajjaanaye' becoming 'Soma', you got to admit it is funny.

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yes it was funny how it was translated as self born. one may check up the meaning of suma and then smile.

August 3, 2005

yes it was funny how it was translated as self born. one may check up the meaning of suma and then smile.

Mr. nameless guest(and/or) Atanu,

Sumajjaanaya = Sumaj + Jaanaye

Sumat = Svayam (as per Sayana).

So according to you then Sayana himself is a joke, and that you guys know better.

It is not surprising that fools claim to know better than scholars like Sayana, and these idiots claim Suma is Soma and even have the guts to defend this utter rubbish translation and garbage.

What is your source of translation Mr. Guest and how does it translate to Soma. Can you give references from traditional scholars like Sayana, or only opost and run under anonymous name guest.

Advaitis not only do not have any logical understanding of subject, but are great cheaters posing themselves as knowing everything.

August 3, 2005

Kanna, you are too innocent to understand: Eko Rudro na dvittiya tastu, which means GOD IS ONE WITHOUT A SECOND.

He alone creates Hirayanagarbha, then as Hiryanagarbha, He himself gives birth to mind born devas and sages. He alone is JIva.

"sarvo vai rudras tasmai rudrAya namo astu|

purusho vai rudrassan maho namo astu|”

Sarvo vai rudra: All is truly Rudra. purusho vai rudra: Purusha is truly Rudra.

Kanna, I do not mind your abuses at all, since that is expected. If any day, what all has been written here registers in you, that will be my fruit, even at the cost of all the abuses.

Best wishes. Be more contemplative on Lord Vishnu. That’s all I can say to you.

Again the same nonsense. Not being able to answer through logic, they resort to this kind of garbage.

Advaita itself remains unproven. That being the case, giving statements like "one without a second" etc. does not prove your point.

The verse can be explained differently, "One without a second", here means that there is only ONE GOD. It does not say that ONLY GOD exists and that other beings do not exist. Such a conclusion as yours would be presuming advaita without giving evidence.

Mr. Atanu,

Just answer this simple question. In Shatapatha Brahmana, Rudra is born through BrahmA, claims to be sinful, and requests BrahmA to cleanse him of sins.

August 3, 2005

Mr. Atanu,

Just answer this simple question. In Shatapatha Brahmana, Rudra is born through BrahmA, claims to be sinful, and requests BrahmA to cleanse him of sins.

How can RudrA be paramatma when RudrA himself says he is sinful ?

August 4, 2005

dear Atanu,

u just prove ur ignorance time and again.

probably u know nothing but to refer to an English guy's translation and Sanskrit-English dictionaries.

I had clearly given the reason.

"Rudro vai krUrah|"

here, 'Rudra is cruel person'. but not the other way around. 'A cruel person is Rudra' - saying so will be illogical.

when u refer to sans-eng. dictionaries, umust also know how the words r to be used. or else, it will be utterly useless to refer to those texts. elsewhere u said 'anta' means 'limit'. but u failed to understand that in that sense it means 'creator'/'place of birth'.

********************************************************************

And again I would say that you are not spiritual and religious person. Else you would know, (unlike westerners) that SOMA is not juice but Soma is the KING. Soma is S-Uma. When Uma stirs, creation starts – and that is flow or vibration of Soma.

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so u r more religious than Sayana. SOMA IN THOSE VERSES REFER TO THE JUICE AND IT IS PROVED BY THE VERSES THEMSELVES.

also u once again portray ur ignorance:

when it portrays Shiva,

Soma = sa + uma (not s+uma).

now as u have a Dictionary, refer it to find that Soma means juice of a creeper.

'Soma' refers both to a deity and the juice.

so, based on the context, it is found out whether 'Soma' means juice or the deity.

if u persist that 'SOma' means the deity then would u sacrifice Shiva in the yagnas in which sacrificial offering of Soma is suggested.

think well.

August 4, 2005

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You are a person called Ravilochan but the other way round is not true. The person that is you is not Ravi lochan.

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u got the point wrong.

let the verse be 'sarvo vai ravilochanah|"

that means 'everything is (called) Ravilochan(a name of Visnu - just as Rudra is a name of Visnu)'. but 'Ravilochan(me) cannot be everything.'

u had asked where the word 'called' is found. but u fail to understand that the concept expressed by 'vai' can be expressed in English by using the word 'called' only though in the strict sense 'vai' cannot be used to mean 'called' in every place.

'vai' gives an attribute to the word preceding it. thus 'Rudra' is an attribute of 'sarva' and 'Purusha'. not the other way. just as 'cruel person' is an attribute of Rudra.

August 4, 2005

7.100.3

"This God strode forth three steps over this earth bright with great lustre in all his power .

Chief is Visnu who is mightier than the mightiest; the name of Him, who lives forever, is glorious(worhy of pride)."

NOTE: VISNU IS MIGHTIER THAN THE MIGHTIEST.

7.100.6

"O Visnu! There is nothing to be blamed(negative) in You, You have declared,'I am Sipivista'.

Do not hide this from us nor must You keep it a secret, You did wear another form in battle." (another form - terrible)(do not hide Your true benign form).

NOTE: VISNU DOES NOT HAVE ANY NEGATIVE CHARACTERISTICS IN HIM(NOTHING TO BLAME).

7.100.7

"O Visnu! my lips recite 'Vashat' to You; O Sipivista! this offering of mine may please thee.

May the hymns of praise sung by me elate You. O God! Bless and protect us forever ."

NOTE: 'VASHAT' KARA IS RECITED TO VISNU. VISNU IS PRAISED BY RECITING 'VASHAT' KARA.

August 4, 2005

Atanu claims that Parjanya is Rudra. don't to that theory. Parjanya is just the Lord of rains. but as Atanu claims it repeatedly, let us see a verse:

Rg Veda

7.102.1 " Sing hymns in praise of Parjanya, Heaven's son, the giver of the gift of rains. May he supply us pastures(by sending rain)."

atleast now, the doubt will be cleared. if Atanu still persists, then let him see that Parjanya is a son of Heaven. So, Rudra will be son of Heaven.

August 4, 2005

I had quoted before a verse from Rg Veda to prove that Visnu is defectless.

now given below is a citation from Mahabharata:

"kurvanthyAmtu tatas tasyAm mandalam tat pradakshinam

brahmA vishnuscha bhagavAn trunI krutyAvatishttatAm

indras sthAnuscha bhagavAn dhairyam tyaktvA vyavasthitow"

MEANING:

"When that Thilotthama went around the 'Mandala', Brahmadeva and Bhagavan Vishnu considered her to be to despicable. Indra and Bhagavan Shiva developed sexual feelings."

Thus, Shiva is not the 'Urdhvaretha'(NArAyana sUkta).

August 4, 2005

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Atanu claims that Parjanya is Rudra. don't to that theory. Parjanya is just the Lord of rains

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You are a moron. You are on the net and not like false preachers of earlier times. Go up and check, i said: Parjanya is a name of Rudra. I did not say Parjanya is Rudra. The reverse is true.

And you, who hurl abuses at western translators are much worse. You make Soma a juice and you make Parjanya a rain maker. Moron. You make fun of Agni who alone is Vishnu. You know nothing of the Vedas.

Book 7 HYMN CI. Parjanya.

1 SPEAK forth three words, the words which light preceded, which milk this udder that produceth nectar. Quickly made manifest, the Bull hath bellowed, engendering the germ of plants, the Infant.

------

4 In him all living creatures have their being, and the three heavens with triply flowing waters. Three reservoirs that sprinkle down their treasure shed their sweet streams around him with a murmur.

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6 He is the Bull of all, and their impregner lie holds the life of all things fixed and moving. May this rite save me till my hundredth autumn. Preserve us evermore, ye Gods, with blessings.

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atleast now, the doubt will be cleared. if Atanu still persists, then let him see that Parjanya is a son of Heaven. So, Rudra will be son of Heaven.

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I told you, you are a moron. You speak so lightly about gods, no sane person will do it.

Parjanya speaks the three words that preceded the light. Do you follow.

4 In him all living creatures have their being, and the three heavens with triply flowing waters. Three reservoirs that sprinkle down their treasure shed their sweet streams around him with a murmur.

And Yes, He is manifest in the heaven. Dyaus is the father. And Rudra is Dyaus.

RUDRA IS DYAUS.

Do you understand? Moron. I hope that some day you will lose your arrogance and know all airs.

OM NAMAH SIVAYYA

August 4, 2005

let the verse be 'sarvo vai ravilochanah|"

that means 'everything is (called) Ravilochan(a name of Visnu - just as Rudra is a name of Visnu)'. but 'Ravilochan(me) cannot be everything.'

'sarvo vai ravilochanah' means 'everything is Ravilochan' and not 'everything is (called) Ravilochan'.

You are inserting 'called' where there is none.

Your infamous translations are on net.

sarvo vai rudra

August 4, 2005

Krishna Rama Shiva Shankara Parvathi , Hanumanth Lakshmi are just different ways we call the same all mighty.

If I deeply love my Dog also , the lord all mighty will come in it's form & save me from all Bhava Bandana.

August 4, 2005

******let the verse be 'sarvo vai ravilochanah|"

that means 'everything is (called) Ravilochan(a name of Visnu - just as Rudra is a name of Visnu)'. but 'Ravilochan(me) cannot be everything.'***********

'sarvo vai ravilochanah' means 'everything is Ravilochan' and not 'everything is (called) Ravilochan'.

You are inserting 'called' where there is none.

And even with 'called' being there, you are a moron. Everything is not called Rudra. Moron is called a moron only. But even a moron's self is Rudra. Moron does not know it.

So, sarvo vai rudra.

He is Isha, Bhagavo and Para. He is also the Jiva. He is the heart of all.

With all your citations I could not see anything positive from the Samhitas. I feel sorry for you.

August 4, 2005

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In reply to:

--

And obviously: "Eko Rudro na dvittiya tastu", does not refer to Rudra but to some one else.

The Supreme Purusha to whom: "na dvittiya tastu" refers is named Rudra but Rudra is actually not that Supreme Purusha .

Yes it sounds logical. Brilliant logicians.

--

This part was answered before.

1. Since the being called Rudra in Svetasvatara creates Hiranyagarba(BrahmA) and since Shatapatha Brahmana confirms birth of RudrA through Hranyagarba(BrahmA), this being RudrA cannot be referring to umapati.

Point 1 confirms that this BEING is NOT RudrA,

***************

This guy is still funnier. When shruti says: 'Eko Rudro na dvittiya tastu', he says 'this BEING is NOT RudrA'

Are you you? Or are you some one else? You are a mayavada.

Eko Rudro na dvittiya tastu, simply means that Hiranyagarba(BrahmA) is Rudra. The being born of Hiranyagarba is also Rudra.

And your malicious interpretation falls flat even with your own logic. Your logic fails you.

Since, "Eko Rudro na dvittiya tastu", there cannot be two Rudra. One Rudra is all. sarva vai Rudra.

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2. Some of the verses in Svetasvatara are exactly same as Purusa Sukta. Purusa Sukta confirms that this BEING is Lord of Hree and Lakshmi.

while point 2 confirms that this BEING IS Lord VISNU.

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You have forgotten "purusa vai rudra". Purusa is Rudra.

And you are a liar. Purusa Shukta is given below and there is no Hree and Lakshmi.

HYMN XC. Purusa.

1. A THOUSAND heads hath Purusa, a thousand eyes, a thousand feet.On every side pervading earth he fills a space ten fingers wide.

2 This Purusa is all that yet hath been and all that is to be;The Lord of Immortality which waxes greater still by food.

3 So mighty is his greatness; yea, greater than this is Purusa.All creatures are one-fourth of him, three-fourths eternal life in heaven.

4 With three-fourths Purusa went up: onefourth of him again was here.Thence he strode out to every side over what cats not and what cats.

5 From him Viraj was born; again Purusa from Viraj was born.As soon as he was born he spread eastward and westward o'er the earth.

6 When Gods prepared the sacrifice with Purusa as their offering,Its oil was spring, the holy gift was autumn; summer was the wood.

7 They balmed as victim on the grass Purusa born in earliest time.With him the Deities and all Sadhyas and Rsis sacrificed.

8 From that great general sacrifice the dripping fat was gathered up.He formed the creatures of-the air, and animals both wild and tame.

9 From that great general sacrifice Rcas and Sama-hymns were born:Therefrom were spells and charms produced; the Yajus had its birth from it.

10 From it were horses born, from it all cattle with two rows of teeth:From it were generated kine, from it the goats and sheep were born.

11 When they divided Purusa how many portions did they make?What do they call his mouth, his arms? What do they call his thighs and feet?

12 The Brahmana was his mouth, of both his arms was the Rajanya made.His thighs became the Vaisya, from his feet the Sudra was produced.

13 The Moon was gendered from his mind, and from his eye the Sun had birth;Indra and Agni from his mouth were born, and Vayu from his breath.

14 Forth from his navel came mid-air the sky was fashioned from his head Earth from his feet, and from his car the regions. Thus they formed the worlds.

15 Seven fencing-sticks had he, thrice seven layers of fuel were prepared,When the Gods, offering sacrifice, bound, as their victim, Purusa.

16 Gods, sacrificing, sacrificed the victim these were the carliest holy ordinances.The Mighty Ones attained the height of heaven, there where the Sidhyas, Gods of old, are dwelling.

August 4, 2005

*****The ABout Soma being father of Visnu, it is already answered in context. Visnu there refers to Yajamana and Soma refers to creeper. If you read in context you would understand.*********

Yes. Rig Vedic verses (and not one) proclaim that not only Visnu but Indra, heaven and Earth are all born of Soma alone.

When confronted with the verse where Visnu is shown as born of Soma you say: "Visnu there refers to Yajamana"

So first, a yajamana is Vishnu.

And second, how can a yajamana, who already exists and who is performing rites, is again born of Soma (as Vishnu)?

And when "eko rudro na dvittiya tastu" is cited, then you say 'this rudro is visnu'.

When birth is spoken then Vishnu is not Vishnu but it refers to Yajamana. And when Eko status is spoken of Rudra, then it is not Rudra but it is Vishnu.

You are crazy and not me.

What have you done baby? Param Vishnu is a mere yajamana ?

I know Vishnu as Param. Your foolish ego alone makes you say: "Visnu there refers to Yajamana".

This foolishness will go on , Kanna, till you drop your ego and say "I don't know".

Till you drop your ego and bigotry, you will have no good karma other than abusing others.

Meditate on your false hood:

"When birth is spoken then Vishnu is not Vishnu but it refers to Yajamana. And when Eko status is spoken of Rudra, then it is not Rudra but it is Vishnu."

And now meditate on the truth:

"Rudra is Dyaus. Vishnu is Dyaus."

YV iv. 4. 9.

(Thou art) Prajapati with Soma in mind; ----- Indra at the oblation-holder; Aditi when put in place; Visnu when being taken down; ------- Rudra when offered; ------ Dyaus when arrived at completion.

Love Vishnu as One; You will love all. Hate Shiva and you will hate all. The reverse is also true. The truth. The achievement.

Kannah (Krishna) I will wait for you.

August 4, 2005

Crazy I am not. Crazy you are.

****The ABout Soma being father of Visnu, it is already answered in context. Visnu there refers to Yajamana and Soma refers to creeper. If you read in context you would understand.*******

RV Book 9 HYMN XCVI. Soma Pavamana

-----

5 Father of holy hymns, Soma flows onward the Father of the earth, Father of heaven: Father of Agni, Surya's generator, the Father who begat Indra and Visnu.

You are crazy and not me. You don't know what you are writing. Take some rest and then we can discuss again. You need a rest.

A mere creeper is "Father of holy hymns, the Father of the earth, Father of heaven: Father of Agni, Surya's generator, the Father who begat Indra and Visnu".

You are crazy. Or you are tired. You don't even see what are the implications of your ill judgements born of ego.

Om Namah Sivayya

August 5, 2005

This guy is still funnier. When shruti says: 'Eko Rudro na dvittiya tastu', he says 'this BEING is NOT RudrA'

Are you you? Or are you some one else? You are a mayavada.

Eko Rudro na dvittiya tastu, simply means that Hiranyagarba(BrahmA) is Rudra. The being born of Hiranyagarba is also Rudra.

And your malicious interpretation falls flat even with your own logic. Your logic fails you.

Since, "Eko Rudro na dvittiya tastu", there cannot be two Rudra. One Rudra is all. sarva vai Rudra.

Let us see the previous verse.

ya eko jälavän éçata éçanébhiù

sarväàl lokän éçata éçanébhiù |

ya evaika udbhave sambhave ca

ya etad vidur amåtäs te bhavanti ||1||

The one spreader of the net, who rules with power,

who rules all the worlds with power,

the one who stands alone

in their(worlds) rising and continuing existence---

those who know that one become immortal.

In the above verse, the BEING(creator of everything) is identified with the noun "eko".

In the next verse further it is said as follows.

eko hi rudro na dvitéyäya tasthur

ya imäàl lokän éçata éçanébhiù |

pratyaì janäàs tiñöhati saïcukocänta-käle

saàsåjya viçvä bhuvanäni gopäù ||2||

Truly "that one(eko)" is RudrA, there is no second one,

who rules all the worlds with power,

watching over creatures as their protector,

after creating them all, merging them together at the end.

Having eyes and mouths everywhere, arms and feet everywhere, the one God making hands and wings,

creates the heaven and the earth.

If you take the sentence "eko hi rudro", the noun "eko" is the subject being discussed in the previous verses. Rudra in this verse is a descriptive noun for the subject. The meaning is "Truly that BEING called EKO is the real RudrA", not the umapati RudrA.

This interpretation is supported by the fact that this BEING(EKO) creates HiranyagarbhA(BrahmA) as mentioned in subsequent verses.

Also Shatapatha Brahmana confirms that RudrA(Umapati) is born through HiranyagarbA. So it is confirmed that this BEING EKO is not RudrA(Umapati).

Further in Pursua Sukta this BEING having eyes and feet everywhere is explained as "One who has Hree and Lakshmi as wives".

You have forgotten "purusa vai rudra". Purusa is Rudra.

And you are a liar. Purusa Shukta is given below and there is no Hree and Lakshmi

Purusa Sukta is present in Taittiriya Aranyaka too which Atanu does not know.

Refer to verses 3.13.1 and 3.13.2 of Taittiriya Aranyaka where it says

hreeshca te lakshmeeshca patnyau | ahorAtre pArshve |

nakshatrANi roopam | ashvinau vyAttam |

hreeshca) Hree and (lakshmishca) Laskhmi are (patnyau) wives (te) to you. (aho - rAtre) The day and the night (pArshve) your sides. (nakshatrANi) the Stars (roopam) your brilliant form. (ashvinau) the Healing Ashvins (vyAttam) your mouth.

In "purusa vai rudra", the word Purusa is the subject and the word RudrA is a descriptive noun of that subject PurusA.

So this verse also means that "Truly this Purusa is the RudrA, not the umapati".

August 6, 2005

5 Father of holy hymns, Soma flows onward the Father of the earth, Father of heaven: Father of Agni, Surya's generator, the Father who begat Indra and Visnu.

You are crazy and not me. You don't know what you are writing. Take some rest and then we can discuss again. You need a rest.

A mere creeper is "Father of holy hymns, the Father of the earth, Father of heaven: Father of Agni, Surya's generator, the Father who begat Indra and Visnu".

You are crazy. Or you are tired. You don't even see what are the implications of your ill judgements born of ego.

Hmm...as usual Mr Atanu picks verses out of context. Let us see what the verses themselves say.

sá no deva devátaate pavasva mahé soma psárasa indrapaánaH

kRNvánn apó varSáyan dyaám utémaám urór aá no varivasyaa punaanáH

9.096.03 Divine Soma, who are the beverage of Indra (indrapaánaH), flow at our sacrifice for (his) abundant food; sending water, causing rain to fall upon heaven and upon this earth, (come) from the wide (firmament, and) being purified bestow upon us wealth.

From the word indrapaánaH, it is clear that we are talking about the Soma juice or creeper mainly(Mukhyartha), and also Soma, the devata as abhmani of soma juice. Now let us see if Atanu's interpretation of father of all these devetas is right.

ájiitayé .ahataye pavasva svastáye sarvátaataye bRhaté

tád ushanti víshva imé sákhaayas tád aháM vashmi pavamaana soma

9.096.04 Flow for our immunity from defeat and slaughter, flow for our welfare, for the great sacrifice for all the gods; all these my friends desire this; this I desire, O Soma Pavama_na.

This verse clearly shows that Soma flows and it is Soma juice or creeper being referred here. The performers of sacrifice ask Soma to flow in order to achieve their objectives. So these verses refer to a sacrifice involving Somapanah.

sómaH pavate janitaá matiinaáM janitaá divó janitaá pRthivyaáH

janitaágnér janitaá suúryasya janiténdrasya janitótá víSNoH

9.096.05 The Soma flows, the generator of praises, the generator of heaven, the generator of the earth, the generator of Agni, the generator of the sun, the generator of Indra, and even the generator of Vis.n.u.

From the above verse Mr. Atanu decides that Soma is the father of all these Devatas.

The correct explanation is that by somapanah, these sacrificers are able to manifest(generate = Janita) these Devatas in sacrifice, including Visnu. Hence Soma(panah) is called Janitaa(Generator or Father) here. My explanation on previous post was wrong and I recognize that now.

The above explanation is supported by other previous verses on this Soma(panah). Read below.

pári No deváviitaye vaájaaM+ arSasi gómataH

punaaná indav indrayúH

9.054.04 Purified Indu, who are devoted to Indra(indrayúH

), pour down for our sacrifice, food with milk and curds.

If Soma is generator of Indra. then why is Soma devoted to Indra.

The word "indrayúH" means "longing for or wishing to approach Indra". It implies Soma, the abhimani deity of Somapanah, is lower in position to Indra. So Atanu's explanation does not hold here. In this verse Indu points to Soma(panah). Refer the context please.

Here is another verse where Soma(panah) is given as gift for the service of Indra. This again shows Soma's sub-ordinate position to Indra.

taá abhí sántam ástRtam mahé yúvaanam aá dadhuH

índum indra táva vraté

9.009.05 Indra, at your worship, they (the fingers) have provided the present, indestructible, and ever-youthful Indu, for your solemn service.

I think these verses prove enough that Soma is NOT THE FATHER of Indra, Visnu etc. as explained by Atanu. They simply refer to sacrificers prayers to manifest the Devatas in their sacrifice.

August 6, 2005

A BEVERAGE CALLED SOMA -- kanna shruti

Hey Kanna, where is this beverage man? Let us generate some Visnu.

You are excellent translator and interpreter. Homage to you. From being a creeper, Soma has become a beverage now. And Soma, ‘the beverage’ has a will of its own so that listening to the prayer it would start flowing towards Indra and others or will generate them.

***********

I think these verses prove enough that Soma is NOT THE FATHER of Indra, Visnu etc. as explained by Atanu. They simply refer to sacrificers prayers to manifest the Devatas in their sacrifice.

***************

And this beverage is ‘janitaá matiinaáM janitaá divó janitaá pRthivyaáH janitaágnér janitaá suúryasya janiténdrasya janitótá víSNoH’

So, this beverage of yours manifests not only devas (visnu and indra) but manifests holy songs, surya (sun), divó (heaven), and pRthivyaáH (earth).

There is no sun, no earth, no heaven and no sacrificial hymn. These are begotten (janitaá) by Soma (ardhanarishwara) himself/herself.

IF THERE IS NO EARTH AND NO HEAVEN WHERE IS THE SACRIFICER AND WHERE IS THE SACRIFICIAL HYMN? ALL THESE ARE BEGOTTEN BY SOMA.

You are truly crazy and bent upon disgracing Vedas. I request that you read the followings with a humble and open mind. God is with you.

RV 9.12 - soma pavamana

4 Far-sighted Soma, Sage and Seer, is worshipped in the central point Of heaven, the straining-cloth of wool.

WHAT SHAME, A MERE BEVERAGE, PROBABLY A WHISKEY, IS WORSHIPPED IN THE CENTRAL POINT OF THE HEAVEN? LORD WHAT IS ‘the straining-cloth of wool’? IS IT THE SAHARSARARA, THE TOP OF THE HEAD?

YV iii. 1. 10.

g ---- he returns, and with a verse addressed to Visnu reverences Soma;

KANNA, AS PER YOU: ONE WHO REVERENCES VISNU REVERENCES A BEVERAGE: WHAT A SHAME

Yajur Veda ii. 2. 10.

Yonder sun did not shine, the gods sought atonement for him, and for him they offered this oblation to Soma and Rudra: verily thereby they bestowed brightness upon him.

KANNA: A MERE BEVERAGE RESTORES THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE SUN: OH, WHAT A SHAME?

Book 9 HYMN II. Soma Pavamana.

10 Winner of kine, Indu, art thou, winner of heroes, steeds, and strength

Primeval Soul of sacrifice.

OH, MY LORD, THE PRIMEVAL SOUL, THE UNCUTTABLE, THE UNBURNABLE, THE UNWETTABLE ‘YAM IS A MERE WHISKEY. OH, MY LORD KANNA (KRISHNA), HELP ME PLEASE.

Rig Veda Book 6 HYMN XIII. Indra.

1. INDRA, when Soma juices flow, makes his mind pure and meet for lauds. He gains the power that brings success, for great is he.

20 That mind of Rudra, fresh and strong, moves conscious in the ancient ways, With reference whereto the wise have ordered this.

LORD INDRA IS SUCH A DRUNKARD! HE CANNOT WORK AND WILL NOT BE SUITABLE FOR LAUDS IF HE DOES NOT DRINK HIS DRAUGHT. OH BABY, THIS IS SHAMEFUL.

Book 9 HYMN VI. Soma Pavamana.

------

2 Pour hitherward, as Indra's Self, Indu, that gladdening stream of thine,

And send us coursers full of strength.

--------

LORD, I NOW UNDERSTAND. INDU (THE MOST PRECIOUS BEVERAGE) IS INDRA’S SELF. THAT IS WHY HE CANNOT DO ANYTHING WITHOUT HIS DRAUGHT/SIP.

Book 9 HYMN V Apris.

2 He, Pavamana, Self-produced, speeds onward sharpening his horns:

He glitters through the firmament.

7 Both Gods who look on men I call, Celestial Heralds: Indra's Self

Is Pavamana, yea, the Bull.

-----------

9 1 summon Tvastar hither, our protector, champion, earliest-born,

Indu is Indra, tawny Steer; Pavamana is Prajapati.

LORD KANNA AGAIN AND AGAIN YOU ARE TEACHING US. THIS BEVERAGE WAS SELF PRODUCED. THIS BEVERAGE ITSELF IS INDRA AND PRAJAPATI.

WHY THIS BRAND IS NOT AVAILABLE IN THE MARKET?

Book 1 HYMN CLXIV. Visvedevas. (ASIYA VAMIYA SUKTA)

34 I ask thee of the earth's extremest limit, where is the centre of the world, I ask thee. I ask thee of the Stallion's seed prolific, I ask of highest heaven where Speech abideth.

35 This altar is the earth's extremest limit; this sacrifice of ours is the world's centre.

THE STALLION'S SEED PROLIFIC IS THE SOMA; THIS BRAHMAN THE HIGHEST HEAVEN WHERE SPEECH ABIDETH.

KANNA, WHAT A SHAME: THIS BEVERAGE IS THE HIGHEST HEAVEN AS WELL.

YV vi. 1. 11.

Or rather they say, 'By Agni and Soma Indra slew Vrtra'. In that he offers an animal to Agni and Soma, it slays hostile things for him;

THIS IS TRULY THE HEIGHT OF DISGRACE. IT IS THE BEVERAGE MIXED WITH AGNI THAT KILLED OFF THE VRTRA. GREAT FIRE, I SUPPOSE?

NOW, IT IS CLEAR. VRTRA WAS KILLED BY A FIRE OF SPIRIT; THE FIRE OF ATMA; THE FIRE OF THE SELF; THE FIRE OF THE ‘YAM.

AND WHO IS THIS VRTRA? OF COURSE HE IS THE KAMA. AND SPIRIT FLOWS FOR THEM WHO KNOW. SPIRIT IS IGNITED FOR THEM WHO KNOW.

Hey Kanna, want to search for this beverage; to generate some visnu?

Or do you want to make Soma a demi god. Your mind runs along supremacy angle very well. But I suggest take some rest.

August 6, 2005

Hey Kanna, where is this beverage man? Let us generate some Visnu.

Atanu, you read the words, but do not understand their meanings. Here manifests or generates means that these Devatas become merely present in the sacrifice and these Devatas are not created by this process. This is clear from the verses calling this Soma as Indrapaanah, Soma as Indrayuh(One who longs to serve Indra) etc. These verses prove Soma's sub-ordinate position to Indra. The verses are clearly quoted in my previous post. Please refute them logically intead of giving ridiculous statements as above.

You are excellent translator and interpreter. Homage to you. From being a creeper, Soma has become a beverage now. And Soma, ‘the beverage’ has a will of its own so that listening to the prayer it would start flowing towards Indra and others or will generate them.

Sruti calls Soma as Indrapaanah(Beverage of Indra), this is not my opinion and I have quoted the Sruti.

So, this beverage of yours manifests not only devas (visnu and indra) but manifests holy songs, surya (sun), divó (heaven), and pRthivyaáH (earth).

There is no sun, no earth, no heaven and no sacrificial hymn. These are begotten (janitaá) by Soma (ardhanarishwara) himself/herself.

IF THERE IS NO EARTH AND NO HEAVEN WHERE IS THE SACRIFICER AND WHERE IS THE SACRIFICIAL HYMN? ALL THESE ARE BEGOTTEN BY SOMA.

You are truly crazy and bent upon disgracing Vedas. I request that you read the followings with a humble and open mind. God is with you.

Read my answer above.

The word "Manifests" assumes pre-existence of these Devatas.

Rest about this Soma being ardhanareshwara is drivel and your halucination. That would make only this ardhanareshwara sub-ordinate to Indra, as this Soma is given as a gift for the service of Indra. So according to you ardhanarreshwara is serving Indra.

RV 9.12 - soma pavamana

4 Far-sighted Soma, Sage and Seer, is worshipped in the central point Of heaven, the straining-cloth of wool.

WHAT SHAME, A MERE BEVERAGE, PROBABLY A WHISKEY, IS WORSHIPPED IN THE CENTRAL POINT OF THE HEAVEN? LORD WHAT IS ‘the straining-cloth of wool’? IS IT THE SAHARSARARA, THE TOP OF THE HEAD?

Nice imagination. Merely points out that Soma truly generated from heaven.

YV iii. 1. 10.

g ---- he returns, and with a verse addressed to Visnu reverences Soma;

KANNA, AS PER YOU: ONE WHO REVERENCES VISNU REVERENCES A BEVERAGE: WHAT A SHAME

Atanu, I thought you do not know read sanskrit.

But you do not know how to read simple English as well. I am not checking the English translation here.

The verse says that the performer of sacrifice with the a verse addressed to Visnu, praises(revrerences) Soma also. It does NOT SAY yhat Visnu reverences Soma.[b/]

for they go away, and they praise with verses which go away; he returns, and with a verse addressed to Visnu, reverences (the Soma); Visnu is the sacrifice; verily he makes the sacrifice. 'O Visnu, as our nearest, O mighty one, grant us protection; the streams dripping honey milk for thee the unfailing source', he says; verily he makes to swell by it whatever of the Soma has dried up through lying (in the barrels).

Yajur Veda ii. 2. 10.

Yonder sun did not shine, the gods sought atonement for him, and for him they offered this oblation to Soma and Rudra: verily thereby they bestowed brightness upon him.

KANNA: A MERE BEVERAGE RESTORES THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE SUN: OH, WHAT A SHAME?

What is the relationship between this verse and Rig Veda verse. None.

Quoting unrelated verses makes no sense Atanu, but exposes your desperation to prove what is wrong as right.

Remember it is the Rug Veda Verse which calls that Soma is Indrapaanah(beverage of Indra).

Book 9 HYMN II. Soma Pavamana.

10 Winner of kine, Indu, art thou, winner of heroes, steeds, and strength Primeval Soul of sacrifice.

OH, MY LORD, THE PRIMEVAL SOUL, THE UNCUTTABLE, THE UNBURNABLE, THE UNWETTABLE ‘YAM IS A MERE WHISKEY. OH, MY LORD KANNA (KRISHNA), HELP ME PLEASE.

What the verse means is that "Soma is ancient soul of the sarifice". It does not say that SOMA is paramatma. This is supported by the following verse.

9.096.18 Thinking as a r.s.i, acting as a r.s.i, gaining heaven, praised by thousands, the guide of the wise, the mighty Soma desiring to attain the third region (heaven), being praised adds lustre to the illustrious (Indra).

Why would SOMA, if he is paramatma, try to atttain heaven here. This verse also explains why Soma is serving Indra. It is because through this, Soma attains heaven.

Did you read the previous verse.

9.002.09 Indu, do you, longing for Indra, stream upon us with a shower of ambrosia, like a raining cloud. [indrayuh = enjoyed by Indra].

Rig Veda Book 6 HYMN XIII. Indra.

1. INDRA, when Soma juices flow, makes his mind pure and meet for lauds. He gains the power that brings success, for great is he.

20 That mind of Rudra, fresh and strong, moves conscious in the ancient ways, With reference whereto the wise have ordered this.

LORD INDRA IS SUCH A DRUNKARD! HE CANNOT WORK AND WILL NOT BE SUITABLE FOR LAUDS IF HE DOES NOT DRINK HIS DRAUGHT. OH BABY, THIS IS SHAMEFUL.

These verses simply show that through sacrifice(Soma Yajna) even Devatas purify themselves. That is all.

By the way can you prvide correct verse numbers or did you make up these verses like a usual advaiti.

Book 9 HYMN VI. Soma Pavamana.

------

2 Pour hitherward, as Indra's Self, Indu, that gladdening stream of thine,And send us coursers full of strength.

--------

LORD, I NOW UNDERSTAND. INDU (THE MOST PRECIOUS BEVERAGE) IS INDRA’S SELF. THAT IS WHY HE CANNOT DO ANYTHING WITHOUT HIS DRAUGHT/SIP.

Your translation is wrong. Here is a translation as per SAYANA.

9.006.02 Indu,do you, as sovereign, effuse that exhilarating juice, and pour forth vigorous steeds. [As sovereign: Lit. 'as Indra', i.e., acting as sovereign].

Book 9 HYMN V Apris.

2 He, Pavamana, Self-produced, speeds onward sharpening his horns: He glitters through the firmament.

7 Both Gods who look on men I call, Celestial Heralds: Indra's Self Is Pavamana, yea, the Bull.

-----------

9 1 summon Tvastar hither, our protector, champion, earliest-born, Indu is Indra, tawny Steer; Pavamana is Prajapati.

LORD KANNA AGAIN AND AGAIN YOU ARE TEACHING US. THIS BEVERAGE WAS SELF PRODUCED. THIS BEVERAGE ITSELF IS INDRA AND PRAJAPATI.

Again wrong translation, as per Sayana correct translation is provided below.

9.005.02 The pure-flowing Tanu_napa_t, rushes sharpening its splendour on the height and hastens through the sky. [Tanu_napa_t = a name of Soma, abhyo ams'avo ja_yante tatah somo ja_yate, from the waters are born beams, from these is born Soma; hastens through the sky: that is, to the dron.akalas'a, according to the text, 'he takes a_grayan.a libation with two streams'].

9.005.07 I invoke the two divine priests, the two deities who behold men-- the pure-flowing (Soma) is radiant and the showerer (of benefits)(Indra).

9.005.09 I invoke Tvas.t.a_, the first-born, the protector, the leader; the golden-coloured pure-flowing Indu is Indra, the showerer, the lord of all creatures.

As we see here, identity is not what is taught here.

índur índro vR'Saa háriH pávamaanaH prajaápatiH

All this verse says is that, it decribes Soma by nouns Indra, prajapati etc. Manu is also called prajapati.

August 6, 2005

Book 1 HYMN CLXIV. Visvedevas. (ASIYA VAMIYA SUKTA)

34 I ask thee of the earth's extremest limit, where is the centre of the world, I ask thee. I ask thee of the Stallion's seed prolific, I ask of highest heaven where Speech abideth.

35 This altar is the earth's extremest limit; this sacrifice of ours is the world's centre.

THE STALLION'S SEED PROLIFIC IS THE SOMA; THIS BRAHMAN THE HIGHEST HEAVEN WHERE SPEECH ABIDETH.

As usual wrong translation.

1.164.34 I ask you, (institutor of the rite), what is the uttermost end of the earth; I ask you, where is the navel of the world. I ask you, what is the fecundating power of the rain-shedding steed; I ask you, what is the supreme heaven of (holy) speech. [The next hymn answers the questions].

1.164.35 This altar is the uttermost end of the earth; this sacrifice is the navel of the world; this Soma is the fecundating power of the rain-shedding steed; this Brahma_(the priest of sacrifice) is the supreme heavn of (holy) speech. [This altar: eta_vati_ vai pr.thivi_ ya_va_ti_ vedih, such or so much, verily, as the earth, so much is the altar; it is the essence of the whole earth (Taittiri_ya Sam.hita_ 2.6.4); the navel of the world: na_bhi = sannahana, the binding together of man with the mans of subsistence, or the crops that spring from the rain which falls as the consequence of sacrifice or of oblations; holy speech: the texts of the Vedas, of which Brahma_, or the priest, is the author ir expounder].

YV vi. 1. 11.

Or rather they say, 'By Agni and Soma Indra slew Vrtra'. In that he offers an animal to Agni and Soma, it slays hostile things for him;

THIS IS TRULY THE HEIGHT OF DISGRACE. IT IS THE BEVERAGE MIXED WITH AGNI THAT KILLED OFF THE VRTRA. GREAT FIRE, I SUPPOSE?

NOW, IT IS CLEAR. VRTRA WAS KILLED BY A FIRE OF SPIRIT; THE FIRE OF ATMA; THE FIRE OF THE SELF; THE FIRE OF THE ‘YAM.

AND WHO IS THIS VRTRA? OF COURSE HE IS THE KAMA. AND SPIRIT FLOWS FOR THEM WHO KNOW. SPIRIT IS IGNITED FOR THEM WHO KNOW.

As usual nonsense and absolute inability to understand is displayed here by Atanu.

The context of verses in Yajur Veda shows that it is dealing with sacrifices.

AGNI and SOMA are essential ingredients of a sacrifice. This is Sperficial undrestanding. A deeper level is it refers to abhmani deities AGNI and SOMA. A still more deeper and best understanding is it refers to BRAHMAN, the antaryami of all BEINGS.

But in no way does these verses mention identity of all these entities, rather it is a depper understanding. That is all.

So the meaning of the Yajur Veda verse is

"Indra performed sacrifices with the aid of AGNI and SOMA knowing well that BRAHMAN or ATMA or VISNU is antaryami of these Devatas and thereby slew Vrtra." This is the meaning and not that SOMA is paramatma.

August 7, 2005

KANNA I SUGGEST YOU WORSHIP SOMA TO GENERATE A SECOND SET OF VISHNU, INDRA, EARTH, HEAVEN, SURYA, AND AGNI.

*****9.005.09 I invoke Tvas.t.a_, the first-born, the protector, the leader; the golden-coloured pure-flowing Indu is Indra, the showerer, the lord of all creatures.

As we see here, identity is not what is taught here.

índur índro vR'Saa háriH pávamaanaH prajaápatiH

All this verse says is that, it decribes Soma by nouns Indra, prajapati etc. Manu is also called prajapati.

***************

“As we see here, identity is not what is taught here”. Then baby, what does “Indu is Indra, the showerer, the lord of all creatures” mean?

It means more than identity. IT SIMPLY MEANS: INDU (SOMA) IS REALITY OF INDRA, the vR'Saa háriH;

Since:

YV vi. 1. 11.

Or rather they say, 'By Agni and Soma Indra slew Vrtra'. In that he offers an animal to Agni and Soma, it slays hostile things for him;

MERE KNOWLEDGE OF SANSKRIT MAKES A PANDIT BUT NOT A SAGE. AND YOU ARE NOT A FULL BAKED PANDIT EITHER. YOU ARE MALICIOUS. YOU ARE A DELIGHTER PAR EXCELLENCE, WHO DOES NOT UNDERSTAND HIS OWN JOKES AND HIMSELF BECOMES THE JOKE.

I ENJOY KANNA SHRUTI

---------------

THE WORD "INDRAYÚH" MEANS "LONGING FOR OR WISHING TO APPROACH INDRA". IT IMPLIES SOMA, THE ABHIMANI DEITY OF SOMAPANAH, IS LOWER IN POSITION TO INDRA.”

NO, NO: INDRAYUH = ENJOYED BY INDRA, THAT MEANS: “SOMA IS SERVING INDRA”.

“EKO WHICH IS A NOUN IS CALLED BY ANOTHER NOUN RUDRO, BUT RUDRO IS NOT THAT NOUN EKO”, “SARVA VAI RUDRA” MEANS SARVA IS CALLED RUDRA BUT SARVA IS NOT RUDRA”

“SOMA IS A CREEPER”, “NO, NO, I WAS WRONG: SOMA IS A BEVERAGE”, “RUDRO REFERS TO VISHNU”, “VISHNU REFERS TO YAJAMANA”, “NO, NO, I WAS WRONG: VISHNU CANNOT BE A MERE YAJAMANA”,

“A BEVERAGE CALLED SOMA IS THE BEGOTTER OF INDRA, VISNU, AGNI, SURYA, HEAVEN AND EARTH”

“INDU IS ACTING AS SOVEREIGN AND IS NOT SOVEREIGN”, “A BEVERAGE CALLED SOMA IS GENERATOR OF EARTH, HEAVEN, AGNI, SURYA, VISHNU AND INDRA”, “NO, NO, DEVAS MANIFEST ON SOMA SACRIFICE”. “PRIMEVAL SOUL IS A BEVERAGE “. “INDRA DRINKS THE PRIMEVAL SOUL”, THE PRIMEVAL SOUL IS ENJOYED BY INDRA, THAT MEANS THE PRIMEVAL SOUL IS SERVING INDRA”.

SINCE EKO IS ANOUN IN "EKO RUDRO NA DVITTIYA TASTU", RUDRA DOES NOT REFER TO RUDRA BUT TO SOME ONE ELSE. THE SUPREME PURUSHA TO WHOM: "NA DVITTIYA TASTU" REFERS IS CALLED RUDRA BUT RUDRA IS ACTUALLY NOT THAT SUPREME PURUSHA.

THE PRESIDENT OF INDIA IS MR. ABDUL KALAM. BUT MR. ABDUL KALAM IS NOT THE PRESIDENT OF India, SOME ONE ELSE IS.

---------------

God, are you enjoying this? I know you alone are playing with your strength.

SO, KANNA WHEN WITHOUT SOMA THERE IS NO EARTH, NO HEAVEN, NO AGNI, THEN WHO IS DOING THE YAGNA AND WHO IS MANIFESTING WHOM?

YOU ARE CAUGHT UP IN YOUR OWN EGO AND IN PUBLIC YOU CANNOT SAY “I AM WRONG”. THIS IS THE TRUTH. Except you no one else will be fooled.

KANNA, WHY DON’T YOU FIND THAT BEVERAGE AND LET US GENERATE SOME VISHNU? OR WILL YOU WORSHIP SOMA TO MANIFEST A SECOND SET OF VISHNU, INDRA, EARTH, HEAVEN, SURYA, AND AGNI?

********The word "Manifests" assumes pre-existence of these Devatas************

I see. “Generator” has become “manifests”. The verse is:

5 Father of holy hymns, Soma flows onward the Father of the earth, Father of heaven: Father of Agni, Surya's generator, the Father who begat Indra and Visnu.

Replace father by generator if you wish. It is Soma who is the “begetter” and THERE IS NO YAJAMANA IN THIS VERSE. YOUR SERPENTINE LOGIC MAKES YOU A JOKER.

There is no manifest (even in your translation). “Janitaá” does not mean manifest, but means begetter/progenitor etc.

And then, the earth should also be pre existing. The yajamana should also be pre existing. And then yajamana prays to Soma and He manifests another earth, another Sun, another heaven.

SO I SAY, BECOME A YAJAMANA, PRAY TO SOMA AND CREATE ANOTHER UNIVERSE. PEOPLE WILL REMEMBER YOU.

*******Sruti calls Soma as Indrapaanah(Beverage of Indra), this is not my opinion and I have quoted the Sruti. **************

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF “NECTAR OF BLISS OF GOD”? You are an out and out materialist, unable to imbibe even a bit of the nectar.

*******

In reply to:

--

Book 9 HYMN VI. Soma Pavamana.

------

2 Pour hitherward, as Indra's Self, Indu, that gladdening stream of thine,And send us coursers full of strength.

--

Your translation is wrong. Here is a translation as per SAYANA.

9.006.02 Indu,do you, as sovereign, effuse that exhilarating juice, and pour forth vigorous steeds. [As sovereign: Lit. 'as Indra', i.e., acting as sovereign]. ************

DO NOT MUDDY THE NAME OF SAYANA EVER AGAIN. SAYANA DID NOT WRITE IN ENGLISH. YOU PASS ON YOUR PUTRID CONCOCTION IN THE NAME OF SAYANA.

SAYANA DID NOT ADD “[AS SOVEREIGN: LIT. 'AS INDRA', I.E., ACTING AS SOVEREIGN]”. THIS IS YOUR ADDITION.

REPEAT:

SAYANA DID NOT ADD “[AS SOVEREIGN: LIT. 'AS INDRA', I.E., ACTING AS SOVEREIGN]”. THIS IS YOUR ADDITION.

Remove your addition and let the world see.

9.006.02 Indu, do you, as sovereign, effuse that exhilarating juice, and pour forth (to us) vigorous steeds.

“To us” shown in bracket has been removed BY kanna and “[AS SOVEREIGN: LIT. 'AS INDRA', I.E., ACTING AS SOVEREIGN]” inserted.

NO ONE CAN ACT AS SOVEREIGN, IF ONE IS NOT SO. IF ONE COULD THEN ALL WOULD BE SOVEREIGN.

***************

In reply to:

RV 9.12 - soma pavamana

4 Far-sighted Soma, Sage and Seer, is worshipped in the central point Of heaven, the straining-cloth of wool.

WHAT SHAME, A MERE BEVERAGE, PROBABLY A WHISKEY, IS WORSHIPPED IN THE CENTRAL POINT OF THE HEAVEN? LORD WHAT IS ‘the straining-cloth of wool’? IS IT THE SAHARSARARA, THE TOP OF THE HEAD?

Nice imagination. Merely points out that Soma truly generated from heaven.

***************

You are a joker who does not understand his own jokes. I do not have anything against you but i do not have any compunction to say that you have become a true fool due to your ego.

A BEVERAGE IS WORSHIPPED AT THE HIGHEST POINT OF HEAVEN? AND IN THE PROCESS, THE EARTH AND THE HEAVEN ARE GENERATED?

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