who is shiva?

[Guest guest]

The Advaita philosophy is not expounded in Lalitha Trishati bhashya or any such shaiva-shaktha work. also these bhashyas have not been quoted by early advaitins which is a proof that these were later inventions where in the works were written by someone(probably Appaya Dikshitar) and attributed to Sankara. In his Brahma Sutra Bhasya Adi Sankara has discarded Pasupatham(Shaivam) as unvedic and says that only Narayana who is manifest as Vishnu is the Saguna Brahman. In his Upanishad commentaries too, Sankara accepts only Visnu as Saguna Brahman.

 

U quote from Devaram and they are not pramanas. also I can quote from Divya Prabandham to prove the contrary.

 

then u say that Krishna asked in Gita to worship Rudra. there should be a limit to speak nonsense.

 

He says "sarva dharmaan parityajya MAM EKAM SHARANAM VRAJA"

" resigning all duties,SURRENDER ONLY TO ME" - He does not say about Rudra or Kamakshi. keep ur nonsense with urself. don't spread it to others.

 

advaita is expounded in Sankara's Brahma Sutra and Upanishad Bhashyas. read them first and then argue. don't try to base ur arguments upon baseless works which u show as pramanas.

 

[thiruvengadam 0]

who makes sense and who is nonsense? i never told that krishna told to pray rudra....read my post clearly...i only said krishna said that He is rudra....first try to read properly...people like u who cant read properly and understand the true meaning keep blabering...if shankara was alive today i dont know how he would have reacted by seeing how all his scriptures are being misread.....

 

"Sankara has discarded Pasupatham(Shaivam) as unvedic "

O my God...make sure that the sky doesnt fall on ur head....this sentence of ur about shankara is enough to point how ignorent u are....all i can do for u is to fell pitty for u....

 

as far as vishnu being saguna brahman is concerned, i dont have any objection....my dear Shivam is beyon any comprehension....He is concept of all concepts....yep Shivam is Omkaram...He is OM....He is Nirguna Brahman.....that is why shivam is mostly prayed as lingam (the symbolic meaning of a lingam is to point to the fact that God has no shape ...He has no begining nor end- now gont come with that stupid story of ur stating that a sage cursed Shiva, i can contradict that with Shiv puran)

 

u provocate me to use words....it is true that when talking u people of lower status even the learned gets annoied...the learned remains learned only if he can control himself...so i consider this as a test to my patience....

 

when there is day there is night....so no wonder when there are learned saints, there are learnt fools.....

 

i only appreciate standerd discussion and discuss only with open minded persons.....but as for u...i consider it as disgrace to even mention ur name....i shall not henceforth reply to ur post.....

 

there is something called sadhsangathi.....

 

OM NAMA SHIVAYA

[Guest guest]

Dear sir,

 

The problem with Vaishnavas is that, they are so brainwashed to accept any other god.

 

It reminds me of some western religions.

 

They do not believe in anything except the puranas and parts of shruthies, that sound like vishnu is supreme, anything else is a handiwork of the cunning shankara followers.

 

They do not believe in Non Vaishnavite stala puranas also.

 

The fact is hindusim is now facing a great threat, and we have enough already and now the problem from our own insiders.....

[Guest guest]

do u know what advaitam is? do u know who shankara is? pls dont kill his philosophy by saying that he accepted vishnu as the supreme....u must be a dumb head.....when some one comments about bible they only talk about jesus...similarly when some one comments about about a work done for vishnu they will only talk about visnu...shankara did the same....he is not a fool like u to talk about the glory of some other God when he is actually working on the scripts of another God....for him there was no difference between Vishnu and Shiva....

i think ur sect crazy fellow.....u should not be calling ur self a hindu.....

i have a better plan for u...go to some hill top and jump from there and say that Visnu is supreme and He will save me....

dumb heads like u will never understand the greatness of Advaita....there is a famous proverb in tamil which say that if a cat closes its eyes, then for it the whole world is dark.....

u will never change

[thiruvengadam 0]

there is some serious problems with vaishnavas....do u know the funny part? in south india there are two divisions of vaishnavas called the vadakelai and the thengelai...they differ by the way they put their namam(thilak)...they always keep fighting even amoung themself and in their fight they killed an elephant...the story (reality) goes that there was an elephant in a vaishnava temple and there was a conflict between these two groups about which namam to put on the forehead of this elephant....they came to a conclusion that every alternative week the elephant will bear one purticular namam...which meant that every weekend the fore head of they elephant has to be washed and the namam redrawned....this eventually killed the elephant very soon....this story came in the news paper.... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

no wonder they fight with other sect people for they even fight amoung themself...the word unity and harmony is not there in their dictionary.....we can only pitty them

 

also true that they kill the beauty of advaitam saying that sankara said that vishnu is supreme....they simply cant understand anything.....true that most of them are dumb heads.....i agree

[Guest guest]

Dear Thiruvengadam,

 

One must read and contemplate on the story of Chitraketu to understand the plight of those stuck with "i" (maya). They degrade Shiva's play with his consort as lust. It is their ignorance.

 

Shiva just laughs at Chitraketu but Durga who is Vishnu condemns Chitraketu to hell.

 

[Guest guest]

JABALYUPANISHHAD OF THE SAMA VEDA:

 

sarvaGYaH paJNchakR^ityasaMpannaH

sarveshvara IshaH pashupatiH |

 

The all-knowing Ishvara, the lord of all, and endowed with the (power of performing) the five kinds of actions is called pashupatiH (the lord of the jIvas or pashus).

 

 

 

MANDYUKA UP.

 

12. That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the Sivam and the advaitam. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

 

 

JABALOPANISHAD BELONGING TO THE SUKLA-YAJUR-VEDA

 

 

II-1. Thereafter the sage Atri (son of the creator Brahma) asked of Yajnavalkya: ‘How am I to realize the Self which is infinite and unmanifest ?’ (To this) Yajnavalkya replied: That Avimukta Lord Siva as the redeemer is to be worshipped; the Self which is infinite and unmanifest, is established in the Avimukta Ishvara, possessed of attributes.

 

 

III-1. Then the discipline students (Brahmacharins of Yajnavalkya) asked him: ‘Pray, tell us, what is that mantra by reciting which one attains immortality ?’ He replied: ‘By (reciting) Satarudriya’. These mantras are indeed the names of (Rudra to achieve) immortality. By (reciting) these (mantras) one becomes immortal.

 

 

 

KAIVALYOPANISHAD, INCLUDED IN THE KRISHNA-YAJUR-VEDA.

 

 

7. Meditating on the highest Lord, allied to Uma, powerful, three-eyed, blue-necked, and tranquil, the holy man reaches Him who is the source of all, the witness of all and is beyond darkness (i.e. Avidya).

 

9. He alone is all that was, and all that will be, the Eternal; knowing Him, one transcends death; there is no other way to freedom.

 

23-24. For me there is neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor air, nor ether. Thus realising the Paramatman, who lies in the cavity of the heart, who is without parts, and without a second, the Witness of all, beyond both existence and non-existence – one attains the Pure Paramatman Itself.

25. He who studies the Shatarudriya, is purified as by the Fires, is purified from the sin of drinking, purified from the sin of killing a Brahmana, from deeds done knowingly or unawares. Through this he has his refuge in Shiva, the Supreme Self. One who belongs to the highest order of life should repeat this always or once (a day).

 

 

MAITREYOPANISHAD, INCLUDED IN THE SAMA-VEDA

 

III-12. I am of the form which fills everything, possessing the characteristics of Existence, Consciousness and Bliss. I am of the form of all holy places, I am the supreme Atman, I am Shiva.

III-13. I am devoid of aim and non-aim and I am the bliss which has no extinction. I am beyond measurer and measure and the thing measured; I am Shiva.

III-14. I am not the world, I witness all and I am devoid of eyes, etc., I am immense, I am awake, I am serene and I am Hara (Shiva).

 

SVETASVATAROPANISHAD, INCLUDED IN THE KRISHNA-YAJUR-VEDA

 

2.16

He indeed, the Lord, who pervades all regions, was the first to be born and it is He who dwells in the womb of the universe. It is He, again, who is born as a child and He will be born in the future, He stands behind all persons and His face is everywhere.

2.17

The Self—luminous Lord, who is fire, who is in water, who has entered into the whole world, who is in plants, who is in trees—to that Lord let there be adoration! Yea, let there be adoration!

3.1

The non—dual Ensnarer rules by His powers. Remaining one and the same, He rules by His powers all the worlds during their manifestation and continued existence. They who know this become immortal.

3.2

Rudra is truly one; for the knowers of Brahman do not admit the existence of a second, He alone rules all the worlds by His powers. He dwells as the inner Self of every living being. After having created all the worlds, He, their Protector, takes them back into Himself at the end of time.

3.3

His eyes are everywhere, His faces everywhere, His arms everywhere, everywhere His feet. He it is who endows men with arms, birds with feet and wings and men likewise with feet. Having produced heaven and earth, He remains as their non—dual manifester.

3.4

He, the omniscient Rudra, the creator of the gods and the bestower of their powers, the support of the universe, He who, in the beginning, gave birth to Hiranyagarbha—may He endow us with clear intellect!

 

3.13

The Purusha, no bigger than a thumb, is the inner Self, ever seated in the heart of man. He is known by the mind, which controls knowledge and is perceived in the heart. They who know Him become immortal.

 

4.12

He, the creator of the gods and the bestower of their powers, the Support of the universe, Rudra the omniscient, who at the beginning gave birth to Hiranyagarbha—may He endow us with clear intellect!

4.18

When ignorance is dispelled, there is neither day nor night, neither being nor non-being. There is only that Auspicious One who is imperishable (akshara), and who is worthy of being adored by the creator. From Him has proceeded the ancient wisdom.

 

4.21

It is because Thou, O Lord, art birthless, that some rare souls, frightened by birth and death, take refuge in Thee. O Rudra, may Thy benign face protect me for ever!

 

 

MAHA NARAYANA UPANISHAD

 

 

I-70: ------- He dwells together with Uma (His power giving spiritual illumination) in the hearts of devotees which are holier than other parts of their body (the seat of the Divine) and therefore superior and elevated like a peak and affording protection. The Jiva who is his abode grows to be infinite. He is the Lord who delights the individual souls by guiding according to their deeds and conferring on them fruits of their actions.

 

II-2: I take refuge in Her, the Goddess Durga, who is fiery in lustre and radiant with ardency, who is the Power belonging to the Supreme who manifests Himself manifoldly, who is the Power residing in actions and their fruits rendering them efficacious (or the Power that is supplicated to by the devotees for the fruition of their work). O Thou Goddess skilled in saving. Thou takest us across difficulties excellently well. Our salutations to Thee.

 

XIII-4: Narayana is the Supreme Reality designated as Brahman. Narayana is the highest (Self). Narayana is the supreme Light (described in the Upanishads). Narayana is the infinite Self. [Narayana is the most excellent meditator and meditation.]

 

XIII-5: Whatsoever there is in this world known through perception (because of their proximity) or known through report (because of their distance), all that is pervaded by Narayana within and without.

 

XIV-1: Verily Aditya is He; This orb of His gives light and heat; The well-known Rik verses are there; Therefore the orb is the collection of Riks; He is the abode of the Rik verses. Now this flame which is shining in the orb of the sun is the collection of Saman chants; That is the abode of Saman chants. Now He who is the Person in the flame within the orb of the sun (is to be meditated as) the collection of Yajus; that part of the orb is the collection of Yajus; That is the abode of Yajus.

 

Thus by these three the threefold knowledge alone shines. He who is within the sun is the Golden Person.

 

XVI-1: [by these twenty-two names ending with salutations they consecrate the Sivalinga for all] – the Linga which are representative of Soma and Surya, and holding which in the hand holy formulas are repeated and which purifies all:

 

Nidhanapataye Namah !

Nidhanapataantikaya Namah !

Urdhvaya Namah !

Urdhva Lingaya Namah !

Hiranyaya Namah !

Hiranya Lingaya Namah !

Suvarnaya Namah !

Suvarna Lingaya Namah !

Divyaya Namah !

Divya Lingaya Namah !

Bhavaya Namah !

Bhava Lingaya Namah !

Sarvaya Namah !

Sarva Lingaya Namah !

Shivaya Namah !

Shiva Lingaya Namah !

Jvalaya Namah !

Jvala Lingaya Namah !

Atmaya Namah !

AtmaLingaya Namah !

Paramaya Namah !

Parama Lingaya Namah !

 

------------------

 

XXIII-1: Supreme Brahman, the Absolute Reality, has become an androgynous Person in the form of Umamaheshvara, dark blue and reddish brown in hue, absolutely chaste and possessing uncommon eyes. Salutations to Him alone who is the Soul of the universe or whose form is the universe.

 

XXIV-1: All this verily is Rudra. To Rudra who is such we offer our salutation. We salute again and again that Being, Rudra, who alone is the light and the Soul of creatures all that is indeed this Rudra. Salutations be to Rudra who is such.

 

XXV-1: We sing a hymn that confers on us happiness in the highest degree to Rudra who is worthy of praise, who is endowed with the highest knowledge, who rains objects to the worshippers most excellently, who is more powerful and who is dwelling in the heart. Indeed all this is Rudra. Salutations be to Rudra who is such.

 

 

 

LXXV-1: Salutations to Rudra, and to Rudra who is Vishnu. Guard me from death.

 

 

MAHA UPANISHAD

 

Iv-83-87. ---a desert all the water (in mirages) is an illusion – only the desert is real; (similarly) on reflection all the three worlds are nothing more than consciousness.

 

He who remains giving up what is implied and expressed, is Shiva himself, the best of the Brahman-Knowers. That un-decaying being is the substratum (of all), without comparison beyond words and mind, eternal, omnipotent, omnipresent and subtle.

 

 

SITA UPANISHAD FROM ATHARVA VEDA:

 

 

2. Being the first cause Sita is known as Prakriti; of Pranava, too, She is cause And so is named Prakriti.

3. Maya in very essence, Is Sita, of three letters formed. Called Vishnu, the world-seed, And Maya, too, is the letter i.

4. The letter sa denotes truth immortal; Achievement; Siva with his consort. Ta denotes the Queen of Speech United with Brahman, the Deliverer.

 

Note: 4. The letter sa denotes truth immortal; Achievement; Siva with his consort. And also note 3. Maya in very essence, Is Sita, of three letters formed. Called Vishnu, the world-seed, And Maya, too, is the letter i.

 

 

 

SUKARAHASYOPANISHAD BELONGING TO THE KRISHNA-YAJUR-VEDA. (LORD SHIVA – VAMADEVA TEACHES SUKA).

 

 

20. Om, for this mantra, Hamsa is the Rishi, unmanifest Gayatri is the metre, deity is Paramahamsa, -------- ‘One and non-dual is Brahman. -------.

‘Eternal bliss is Brahman’ – Svaha to the head – Vasat to the braid of hair. ‘That which is plenitude’ – Hum to armour – Vausat to the three eyes. ‘One and non-dual Brahman’ – Phat to the missile. The earth, old region, heaven, Om, this is the link of space.

 

 

25-26. Of the chant of ‘Tvam’ Vishnu is the seer, Gayatri is the metre, supreme self the deity, ‘aim’ the seed, ‘klim’ the power, ‘sauh’ the pin, application is to the repetition for my liberation.

 

 

 

27. For ‘Asi’, the seer is Manah, metre Gayatri, deity Ardhanarishvara, seed is Avyaktadi, power is Nrisimha, pin is supreme Self. Application is repetition for identification of Jiva and Brahman.

 

 

 

30-38. Now according to the classification of the mystic teachings are set forth the verses on the purport.

 

Prajnana is that whereby one sees, hears, smells and makes clear all objects here, pleasant and unpleasant, by which one knows. In the four-faced Brahman, Indra and Devas, men, horses, cows, etc., spirit is one Brahman – so, in me too Prajnana is Brahman. In this body being remains witness to the intellect and is called I. The Being full in itself is described as Brahman, referred to with Asmi. So, I am Brahman. The being, one without a second, without name and form before creation and even now is called That.

 

 

 

 

DEVI UPANISHAD, INCLUDED IN THE ATHARVA-VEDA

 

 

5. I uphold Soma, Tvastir, Pusan and Bhaga, The wide-stepping Vishnu, Brahma, Prajapati.

 

 

8. Those gods said: Salutation to the Goddess, the great Goddess ! To Siva, the auspicious, salutation, for ever more. To blessed Prakriti, salutation ! Ever to Her we bow.

 

11. To holy Siva, to Daksha’s daughter, To Aditi and Sarasvati, To Skanda’s Mother, Vishnu’s Power, To Night of death by Brahma lauded, We render obeisance.

 

12. Know we, Great Lakshmi, Goddess of good Fortune; On all fulfilment do we meditate. May the Goddess inspire us !

 

 

20. Seed all-powerful of the Goddess’ mantra, Is sky, conjoined with ‘i’ and fire, With crescent moon adorned.

 

 

Note: Devi, Skanda’s mother, Vishnu’s power (Lakshmi) is the sky conjoined with "i" (Maya) and the one fire, who is crescent moon adorned.

 

[Guest guest]

Dear sir,

 

What does sata rudriya mean? Can you please post them here for the benifit of all of us? Does it form a part of RudraPrashnah?

 

Thanks.

[Guest guest]

*******

What does sata rudriya mean? Can you please post them here for the benifit of all of us? Does it form a part of RudraPrashnah?

**********

 

 

Yes Rudra Prasnah and Sata Rudriya are more or less same. The material below will possibly throw more light. Sata Rudriya refers to hundred names of Lord.

 

Some selected verses from Shri Rudram were pasted in the post:Narayana is Supreme. You can refer to that.

 

 

What I paste below is excerpt from a post written by a friend of mine

 

 

Vedic definitions of the word "rudra."

 

rudaM saMsAraduHkhaM drAvayatIti rudra iti kechit.h|

 

He is called Rudra because He drives away the sorrow of saMsAra (ephemeral existence) which is ruda

 

rutiM shabdaM vedAtmAnaM brahmaNe dadAti kalpAdAviti rudra ityapare|

 

He is Rudra because he gives ruti or the Vedic sounds to BrahmA at the beginning of the Kalpa.

 

rodayati sarvamantakAla iti rudraH |

 

He makes everyone weep at the time of leaving a body, so he is called Rudra.

 

 

The arrow of Rudra:

 

 

tasyA agniranIkamAsItsomaH shalyo vishhNustejanaM varuNaH parNAni iti |

 

The face (of that arrow) was agni, the dart-head was Soma, VishhNu its sharp edge, and VaruNa its feathers.

 

The PurANas describe the bow of Rudra as Meru, the mountain of gold. "kanakashailo devasya dhanuH"

 

The MahAbhArata says:

 

sa kR^itvA dhanuroMkAraM sAvitrIM jyAM maheshvaraH |

hayAMshcha chaturo vedAnsarvadevamayaM ratham.h ||

 

Maheshvara made the Omkara the bow, SavitrI the bow-string, the four vedas the horses, and the chariot from all the gods.

 

 

 

The first hymn in the Rig Veda addressed to Rudra is by Rishi Kanva:

 

"Kadrudraaya prachetasey meedustamaaya tavyasey.

Vochema shantam hriday".

 

"For the sake of peace, we vocalise praise, from our hearts, to the highly praiseworthy Rudra, who is the Pourer.

 

Sri Rudram includes Namakam and Chamakam pertaining to Rudra. This is found in Krishna Yajurveda, Taittariya Samhita, under the fourth chapter as the fifth (Namakam) and Seventh Sub Chapter as Chamakam. There are few different recensions, meanings, the versions maintained and propagated orally by different families of vedic priests somewhat differ from each other in the order of the verses, as well as additional verses in some recensions. These are minor differences however.

 

“Rtam Sabdam Vedaatmaanam Brahmane dadati Kalpaadaaviti Rudrahâ€.

 

"Rudra presented Vedas to Brahma at the Commencement of kalpa". Rudras also means the persons created by Rudra as Sadrusha.

 

The hymn can also be classified as follows:

 

1. salutations to a Fearsome God, the Source of Inflictions - sloka 1-6

2. salutations to the Protector who is also Providence - sloka 7-17

3. salutations to Rudra who is Nature - sloka 18-20

4. salutations to the All Pervading One - sloka 21-47

4. salutations to the Cause of Sufferings and the Preventor of Sufferings - sloka 48-68

 

In the first Anuvaaka the prayer to Rudra Bhagwan is given. In the Anuvaakas two to nine the all pervading (Sarvesvaratva), the omniscient (Sarvatmaka), the omnipotent (Sarvantaryamitva) qualities of Rudra are described.

 

The rishi experiences the emotions of Fear, Love, Wonder and Bewilderment and the hymns covers all that. In man and in nature, the rishis were deeply aware of the many sources of inflictions and saw the source of these inflictions - Rudra. Therefore they addressed their concerns. The Rudram became the most powerful appeal by the Afflicted directed towards the Cosmic Source of Inflictions.

 

The Rishis saw Rudra as a divine phenomenon at work, outside as the forces of nature like thunder, rain, prestilence, etc and inside as fear, pain, sickness and sorrow. That is the Rudra they adddressed in the hymn in the early slokas. As the Great Inflictor they saw Him as the One who brings everything to an end by the process of decay.

 

The devata Rudra is the Cosmic Source of Inflictions/the Cosmic Inflictor. The thousands of arrows of Rudra the Warrior represent inflictions and his bow stands for the manner the inflictions reaches us and his quiver is the repository of inflictions and his arms represent the capacity or potential of power. Therefore Rudra is also the Repository of Inflictions.

 

Rudra as meedustama can mean the Pourer of Impact on Life. Rudra as Shiva means the condition of peace, the Giver of Peace, the Divine Pure as well as Auspiciousness. Rudra as aruna(rising sun) can mean red or nature. Rudra as giri(mountain) means that His impact on peace is mountainous. Rudra as reerishah (killer) can also mean the Killer of Inflictions or the Source of all Inflictions.

 

In the slokas 48-68 we are told that when the whole world is well, when every little thing is well, then by extension, we are well. Therefore we pray for the whole world. We are told to accept everything in our lives, and in the world, and that all happenings are His Blessings.

 

We are again introduced in Sloka 51 to the knowledge that the Pourer, is the Pourer of Blessings, the Showerer of Blessings and Peace. He Pours Inflictions and He Pours Blessings. We are also told that by worship, we can receive His Withdrawal of Inflictions, and His Healing, and His Blessings - all, here and now, and in future, and in the hereafter.

 

We can try and see Rudra and His Power, and His Inflictions in everything around us, in everyone, in every action, in life and in decay and death, in the beauty around us, in the necessity of everything, that He is the Source of all this, the creator and sustainer, the cause of all.

 

We can try and see the one all pervading force, that His potential always remains in everything, in all nature. We can try and percieve that He is nature, that He is all that is good and bad.

 

We can also percieve that He is the protector of all, all actions, our work and vocations, the Great Healer, the Great Provider; He is Providence; He gives and takes. We are told that by His Pouring and Blessings, we are guided. Therefore He is the Great Guide.

 

We become aware that all is divine, that He is the Facilitator and that all movement is His Power. We become aware that however big or small, however minute, everything is important, everything plays a part and is part of a bigger picture, an overall plan. We become aware that big or small, everything and every action is equal, none lesser or higher. By this awareness we respect all actions. We therefore refrain from underestimating anything or anyone or any action.

 

It is about changing our attitudes towards our perception of the world, our lives and understanding why things happen they way they usually do. We realise that all of us are a tiny grain in the endless beach called Rudra. No one is small and no one is great, no one more important than a strewn pebble. We learn to accept everything that happens. It is all His Bounty.

 

We learn that by holding these views, we 'flow with life', and that we can worship, pray and beseech him hold back the inflictions.

 

The whole hymn is a beseeching and thanksgiving. It starts with fear, shock and awe, bewilderment at the Great God, then proceeds to identify him as the source of all Inflictions, then proceeds to identify him as the source of all movement, of nature, of identifying him with nature, the Power, the Pourer, the Nourisher, the Pervading Power of all that moves and does not move, then beseeches to disarm, to withdraw the inflictions, then the hymn moves to beseech Him to protect, then the hymn changes to thanksgiving. After that the hymn moves to see Him as the All Pervader, and that all is Him, and beseeches Him to lead us to our goal. Starting from fear, the hymn moves to acceptance of all that is. A whole range of emotions is covered in this hymn. Its an epic poem.

 

We learn and become aware that He is a Great Devata; Himself unchanging amidst all the change. No God or phenomenon has been addressed this way, in all these terms, in all the vedas.

 

The hymn also identifies and addresses Mrtyunjaya, Agni, Prajapati and Atman showing clearly that these beings are not separate and distinct but Rudra Himself or an Emanation of Rudra, and that the unblemished Atman is Rudra.

 

In the concluding verses, after the 11th anuvaka, we have this sloka:

 

ayam mE hasthO BagavAn-ayam mE Bagavaththara: |

ayam mE'' viSvaBE'' shajOyag(\)m SivABi marSana: || 4||

 

Translation:

"Due to its contact with the Linga image, this right hand of mine is fortunate.

Nay, it is comparatively more fortunate than the hands of other men.

Indeed, this hand of mine is a panacea for all human beings for all ills."

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

hello

[Guest guest]

hello i owuld like to enter the site to explore

[Guest guest]

*********hello i owuld like to enter the site to explore*******

 

 

Which site you wish to enter and explore. It is infinitely more profitable to enter into oneself.

[Guest guest]

All glories to the All-Attractive Lord!

 

"It is infinitely more profitable to enter into oneself."

 

Enter into oneself means to realise one's identity as the servant of God and serve Him.

 

Your aspiring servant,

 

******

[Guest guest]

Sivoham

 

--

 

Burn away this false ego in the fire of yoga.

 

know The Absolute Truth. know the Self. know Shiva. then finally realize.... Sivoham.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

Lord Shiva is the most exalted devotee of Lord Vishnu. I repeatedly offer my obeisances to the dust of the lotus feet of such a param-vaishnava.

 

Your aspiring servant,

******

[Guest guest]

*********Enter into oneself means to realise one's identity as the servant of God and serve Him.***********

 

 

You cannot decide for Him. That is what some do, they decide for the God.

 

 

Wiser ones just think of Him all the time and let Him direct the course. He may punish or make one a friend, or make one a servant, or give liberation.

 

Why do I have to choose?

 

[Guest guest]

You are correct

 

He is beyond mind and speech so to know Him one has to be that. Else only Ego assertions of superiority of one's preferences and abuses.

 

Burn the Ego in the fire of Yoga.

 

 

 

Who is Shiva

 

Shiva is Siv-Siva. Shiva is Bhagwan who showers blessings

 

Yajur Veda

 

Vikirida vilohita Namaste astu bhagavaha, Yaste sahasragam hetayo nyamasmanniva pantu tah ||

Namo astu nilagrivaya sahasrakshaya midhushe|

 

 

Shiva is Indra, He is Krishna, He is Krishna’s pregnant wives. Shiva is Vrtra

 

 

RV 1.101.01 Offer adoration with oblations to him who is delighted (with praise), who, with R.jis'van, destroyed the pregnant wives of Kr.s.n.a; desirous of protection, we invoke, to become our friend, him, who is the showerer (of benefits), who holds the thunderbolt in his right hand, attended by the Maruts. [R.jis'van was a king and friend of Indra; Kr.s.n.a was an asura, who was slain, together with his wives, that none of his posterity might survive. Kr.s.n.a, the black may be Vr.tra, the black cloud].

 

RV 1.101.02 We invoke to be our friend, Indra, who is attended by the Maruts; he who, with increasing wrath, slew the mutilated Vr.tra and S'ambara, and the unrighteous Pipru, and who extirpated the unabsorbable S'us.n.a [s'ambara and Pipru are asuras; pipru = avratam, not performing or opposing vratas, religious rites; as'us.am s'us.n.am = the dryer up, i.e. who cannot be absorbed].

 

 

 

Shiva is Brahma. He is Usha and He is also the product of their union. He is Prajapati and also Brahmanaspati.

 

 

RV10.061.05 (Rudra), the benefactor of man, whose eager, virile energy was developed, drew it back when disseminated (for the generation of offfspring); again the irresistible (Rudra) concentrates (the energy) which was communicated to his maiden daughter.

 

 

RV 10.061.06 When the deed was done in mid-heaven in the proximity of the father working his will, and the daughter coming together, they let the seed fall slightly; it was poured upon the high place of sacrifice.

 

RV 10.061.07 When the father united with the daughter, then associating with the earth, he sprinkled it with the effusion; then the thoughtful gods begot Brahma; they fabricated the lord of the hearth (of sacrifice); the defender of sacred rites

 

 

 

 

Shiva Rudra is Benign-Shivo. He is EKO and HE is Visva Rupa. He saw the birth of Hirayanagarbha and is also all Devas.

 

 

Svet. Upanishad

 

3.2 Rudra is truly one; for the knowers of Brahman do not admit the existence of a second, He alone rules all the worlds by His powers. He dwells as the inner Self of every living being. After having created all the worlds, He, their Protector, takes them back into Himself at the end of time.

 

3.3 His eyes are everywhere, His faces everywhere, His arms everywhere, everywhere His feet. He it is who endows men with arms, birds with feet and wings and men likewise with feet. Having produced heaven and earth, He remains as their non—dual manifester.

 

3.4 He, the omniscient Rudra, the creator of the gods and the bestower of their powers, the support of the universe, He who, in the beginning, gave birth to Hiranyagarbha—may He endow us with clear intellect!

 

 

Shiva is that indescribable BENIGN reality (Turiyatta Atma) on which everything subsists. He is Benign, one without a second and the world disappears in Him.

 

Manduyka Upanishad

XII

 

The Fourth (Turiya) is without parts and without relationship; It is the cessation of phenomena; IT IS NON -- DUAL SHIVO. THIS AUM IS VERILY ATMAN. He who knows this merges his self in Atman—yea, he who knows this.

 

 

He brings forth the Purusha and He is Purusha – the being that exists prior to Usha – His light.

 

AITAREYA ARANYAKA

 

Fourth Adhyaya. First Khanda

 

Adoration to the Highest Self, Om!

 

1. In the beginning all this was Self (Atma), one only; there was nothing else blinking whatsoever.

 

He thought: 'Shall I send forth worlds?' (1) He sent forth these worlds, Ambhas (water), Mariki (light), Mara (mortal), and Apah (water).

 

That Ambhas (water) is above the heaven, and it is heaven, the support. The Marikis (the lights) are the sky. The Mara (mortal) is the earth, and the waters under the earth are the Apah world. (2)

 

He thought: 'There are these worlds; shall I send forth guardians of the worlds?'

He then formed the Purusha (the person), taking him forth from the water. (3)

 

 

 

Shiva energy Soma (the mind) is Sah-Uma; Siv-Siva. Soma became Aditi by entering everything and then Aditi became all. The all is Shiva

 

 

Book 9 HYMN II. Soma Pavamana.

 

10 Winner of kine, Indu, art thou, winner of heroes, steeds, and strength

 

Primeval Soul of sacrifice.

 

1. HYMN XCI Soma.

1. Thou, Soma, art preeminent for wisdom; along the straightest path thou art our leader. Our wise forefathers by thy guidance, Indu, dealt out among the Gods their share of treasure.

-----

5 Thou, Soma, art the Lord of heroes, King, yea, Vrtra-slayer thou:

 

Thou art auspicious energy.

 

8.HYMN XLVIII. Soma.

1. WISELY have I enjoyed the savoury viand, religious-thought, best to find out treasure,

The food to which all Deities and mortals, calling it meath, gather themselves together.

 

2 Thou shalt be Aditi as thou hast entered within, appeaser of celestial anger.

 

Aditi is all. And Lord’s energy is the progenitor of all.

 

 

Book 1 HYMN LXXXIX. Visvedevas.

------

10 Aditi is the heaven, Aditi is mid-air, Aditi is the Mother and the Sire and Son.

Aditi is all Gods, Aditi five-classed men, Aditi all that hath been born and shall be born.

 

 

 

Book 9 RV Book 9 HYMN XCVI. Soma Pavamana

 

5 Father of holy hymns, Soma flows onward the Father of the earth, Father of heaven: Father of Agni, Surya's generator, the Father who begat Indra and Visnu.

 

 

 

Shiva is heaven -- Dyaus

 

Book 5 HYMN LVIII. Maruts.

1. Now do I glorify their mighty cohort, the company of these the youthful Maruts,

Who ride impetuous on with rapid horses, and radiant in themselves, are Lords of Amrta.

-------

5 They spring forth more and more, strong in their glories, like days, like spokes where none are last in order. Highest and mightiest are the Sons of Prsni. Firm to their own intention cling the Maruts.

 

6 When ye have hastened on with spotted coursers, O Maruts, on your cars with strong-wrought fellies, The waters are disturbed, the woods are shattered. Let Dyaus the Red Steer send his thunder downward.

 

7 Even Earth hath spread herself wide at their coming, and they as husbands have with power impregned her. They to the pole have yoked the winds for coursers: their sweat have they made rain, these Sons of Rudra.

 

 

 

All will know Shiva Mahesvara at the end of ego.

 

He alone exists as support of the existence as indescribable -- neither a being nor a non being -- simply beyond mind and speech.

 

Svet. Up,

 

4.18 yadaa.atamastaanna divaa na raatriH

na sannachaasachchhiva eva kevalaH .

tadaxara.n tat.h saviturvareNyaM

praGYaa cha tasmaat.h prasR^itaa puraaNii .. 18

 

4.18. When the light has risen, there is no day, no night, neither existence nor non-existence; Siva (the blessed) alone is there. That is the eternal, the adorable light of Savitri, - and the ancient praGYaa proceeded thence.

 

6.7 tamiishvaraaNaaM paramaM maheshvara.n

ta.n devataanaaM parama.n cha daivatam.h .

patiM patiinaaM paramaM parastaad.h\-

vidaama devaM bhuvaneshamiiDyam.h .. 7..

 

 

6.7 WE WILL KNOW THIS MIGHTIEST ONE WHO IS FAR ABOVE ALL THE MIGHTY – THIS SUMMIT OF THE GODS AND THEIR GODHEAD, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, WHO TOWERETH HIGH ABOVE ALL SUMMIT AND GREATNESSES. LET US LEARN OF GOD FOR HE IS THIS UNIVERSES' MASTER AND ALL SHALL ADORE HIM.

 

 

 

Shiva is paramam parastad – beyond param. He is patim patinam paramam mahesvaram who resides in the heart cave as I.

 

 

 

Explore the Atma to know Shiva. In silence of the mind Shiva will be known. What is the source of Pragnya (consciousness) is that indescribable Shivo, the refulgent light of Savitri.

 

Again,

 

 

The one who is without beginning and without end,

in the middle of confusion, the creator of all,

of diverse form, is the one embracer of the universe.

By knowing the divine, one is released from all restriction.

 

The incorporeal is to be apprehended by the heart,

the master of existence and non-existence, the benign one -Shiva, the divine maker of all creation and its parts.

 

Those who know this, leave the body behind.

 

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

"Wiser ones just think of Him all the time and let Him direct the course."

 

I agree - thinking of Him all the time is the highest service to the Lord.

 

Your aspiring servant,

******

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

Regarding your long post:

 

What is this about Krishna's wives etc - i'm assuming this is a different Krishna from that of the Bhagavad gita that the Rig veda is referring to?

 

Also, your beautiful verses regarding Lord Shiva I totally agree with. After all, Lord Shiva is the Supreme Lord of the cosmic manifestations. He is also a transformation of Param-brahman for the work of destruction. In that sense he is to be offered the same respect as Param-brahman. In fact, because he is param-vaishnava, he is to be given even more respect than the Lord.

 

Your aspiring servant,

******

[Guest guest]

"Wiser ones just think of Him all the time and let Him direct the course."

 

I agree - thinking of Him all the time is the highest service to the Lord.

 

Your aspiring servant,

--------------------

 

 

At least we agree.

 

 

***********What is this about Krishna's wives etc - i'm assuming this is a different Krishna ****************

 

That is of course typical. Because where Rudra is said to be progenitor of Hirayanagarbha and other Devas, some say it is not Rudra.

 

So, terminology used by such devotees is not the terminology of the Vedas.

[Guest guest]

********Lord Shiva is the Supreme Lord of the cosmic manifestations****

 

 

Well this is your and your sampradaya's perception.They are fine.

 

 

 

For me Mahesvara Shiva is paramam parastad – beyond param, beyond Brahman, beyond sppech and mind (indesribable) and advaitam. And this is as per Shruti and my Guru also. No conflict. I surely do not wish any further arguments, since I understand these ego issues very well by now.

 

 

Lord Krishna in Gita says "those who know me as born (in this body) do not know me. I am mahesvara". There are not two or many mahesvaras and there is nothing for comparison. But some engage in vicious non-spiritual abuses to win wars on behalf of their ego monsters (and not on behalf of Krishna).

 

 

Actual meaning of KrSna is dark clouds (as in Vedas), which obstruct the light. Indra killing the pregnant wives of Krisna and Vrtra himself, represents the tearing of veils of cobweb over the mind by the mind.

 

Of course, Puranas will just reverse the stories. That is predicted in Maitreya Brahmeya Upanishad.

 

Self alone will uplift the self. I wish you the best in your aspirations.

 

 

Om Namah Bhagavate Shri Vasudevayya Namah

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

"For me Mahesvara Shiva is paramam parastad – beyond param, beyond Brahman, beyond sppech and mind (indesribable) and advaitam. And this is as per Shruti and my Guru also."

 

The guru has to be established in a parampara going back to Krishna (or Lord Shiva, Brahma or Kumaras, or Lakshmidevi). Otherwise anyone could start a parampara and say 'I am bona fide guru as per shastra/Bhagavad Gita'. It remains the case that Lord Shiva can be beyond Brahman and still be a transformation of Krishna for the work of destruction as per Brahma Samhita.

 

"Lord Krishna in Gita says "those who know me as born (in this body) do not know me. I am mahesvara". There are not two or many mahesvaras and there is nothing for comparison."

 

Yes Krishna is maheshvara.

 

"Actual meaning of KrSna is dark clouds (as in Vedas), which obstruct the light. Indra killing the pregnant wives of Krisna and Vrtra himself, represents the tearing of veils of cobweb over the mind by the mind."

 

(1) Please provide me with the source of this verse i.e. where i can read it from the original translation (Sanskrit to english word for word).

 

(2) Please let me know which acharya has given this interpretation and establish his parampara as per above.

 

"That is predicted in Maitreya Brahmeya Upanishad"

 

Please provide me with the source of this verse i.e. where i can read it from the original translation (Sanskrit to english word for word).

 

There is no need for me to wish you well, because Lord Shiva is so merciful to his devotees, that if they are sincerely seeking the Supreme Lord, he will direct them to Him - if not in this life then in the next. By sincere, i mean that you accept the conclusions of the Vedas by reference to:

 

(a) the essence of all the Vedas - Bhagavad Gita - and

 

(b) the spotless Purana - Srimad Bhagavatam

 

If you sincerely think that Lord Shiva is supreme even after reading all that, then I'm sure Lord Shiva will guide you to the Absolute Truth. To the extent that one sincerely approaches Krishna, to that extent Krishna reveals Himself (Bhagavad-gita).

 

Your aspiring servant.

[Guest guest]

Maitrya Brahmya

 

 

7.10. The gods and the demons, wishing to know the Self, went into the presence of Brahman (their father, Prajapati). Having bowed before him, they said: ‘O blessed one, we wish to know the Self, do thou tell us.' Then, after having pondered a long while, he thought, these demons are not yet self-subdued; therefore a very different Self was told to them (from what was told to the gods). On that Self these deluded demons take their stand, clinging to it, destroying the true means of salvation (the Veda), preaching untruth. What is untrue they see as true, as in jugglery. Therefore, what is taught in the Vedas, that is true. What is said in the Vedas, on that the wise keep their stand. Therefore let a Brahmana not read what is not of the Veda, or this will be the result.

 

 

 

 

Regarding Rig Veda citation the numbers are given above and you may check yourself. And remember that I do not say that Lord Krishna of Gita is that same krsna of Vedas.

 

 

***Lord Shiva can be beyond Brahman and still be a transformation of Krishna for the work of destruction as per Brahma Samhita.********

 

 

It is how one interprets; mostly the value system guides. One who has gone beyond the mind and its value systems is free. But alas how many are so?

 

I have cited 2 verses from Brahma Samhita to show that Shambhu is eternal light and what is eternal cannot manifest at some particular time. I only request you to keep an unemotional free mind.

 

 

Book 1 TEXT 8

 

niyatih sa rama devi

tat-priya tad-vasam tada

tal-lingam bhagavan sambhur

jyoti-rupah sanatanah

ya yonih sapara saktih

kamo bijam mahad hareh

 

 

Please note eternal jyoti rupa bhagawan.

 

So, Sakti -- the Goddess, the controller is the desire, the seed, and the faculty of cognition of Hareh. And Sakti is under the control of sanatanah eternal Bhagwan Shambhu. She is the potency of supreme Lord Hareh.

 

I do not require any answer from you. Ask yourself, which man will entrust his Devi under control of another man? If you have Devi (power of cognition and desire), will you entrust it to me?

 

 

And can eternal bhagwan be just a glance as made out in the purports?

 

 

Book 1 TEXT 10

 

saktiman purusah so 'yam

linga-rupi mahesvarah

tasminn avirabhul linge

maha-visnur jagat-patih

 

 

 

Note: In the purports Linga rupi is translated as “in the form of male generating organ”. On the other hand, in all Sanskrit scriptures “Linga” means indicatory sign.

 

Then what is manifest in what? Again I do not require an answer. Enquire yourself. In 1.8, cited above, Mahesvarah is described as sanatanah bhagwan. Sanatanah is eternal and not manifest at some time. Moreover, it is sanatanah bhagwan Sambhu. Sambhu is self generated – without a source.

 

 

It is indeed essential to worship one's diety as ONE WITHOUT A SECOND and towards that end comparisons are self defeating. Despite, upanishad's (see Brihad Araynaka for example) statements that God is one and many are his powers, many gurus (for valid reasons) teach many gods -- to ultimately develop samadrishti, which Lord Krishna has stipulated as most essential.

 

 

 

Finally, the ONE WHO BREATHES IN YOU IS THE SUPREME LORD MAHESVARA. He does not have a linga (indicatory shape) and people who argue over shapes and also names are simply living in the mortal material level and have not understodd the atma (spirit); which cannot have a name except through mortal men.

 

Lord is above Vak and so beyond name. He is beyond mind and so he cannot have a mind percieved shape.

 

He is indescribable.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yajur Veda

 

Vikirida vilohita Namaste astu bhagavaha, Yaste sahasragam hetayo nyamasmanniva pantu tah ||

Namo astu nilagrivaya sahasrakshaya midhushe|

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna & Om Namo Shivaya,

 

Regarding Maitreya Brahma 7.10:

 

"On that Self these deluded demons take their stand, clinging to it, destroying the true means of salvation (the Veda), preaching untruth. What is untrue they see as true, as in jugglery. Therefore, what is taught in the Vedas, that is true. What is said in the Vedas, on that the wise keep their stand. Therefore let a Brahmana not read what is not of the Veda, or this will be the result."

 

This does not indicate anything about an invalidity of the Puranas. In fact, if anything it seems to indicate and predict the jugglery of the Buddhists who would reject the Vedas.

 

"And remember that I do not say that Lord Krishna of Gita is that same krsna of Vedas."

 

Fine, there is no need to continue to debate on the basis of those quotes about some other 'Krsna' in the Rig Veda.

 

"One who has gone beyond the mind and its value systems is free. But alas how many are so?"

 

You are right, that value systems are misguiding, that is why in order to understand scripture there is a need to refer to scriptural explanation.

 

"Please note eternal jyoti rupa bhagawan"

 

Lord Shiva is eternal, he is possessor of all opulences. Please note: this is not interpretation, this is literal reading of the text.

 

"She is the potency of supreme Lord Hareh"

 

Hareh = of Hari. Therefore, literal translation is 'of the Supreme Lord Hari'. (Again, no interpretation)

 

"Ask yourself, which man will entrust his Devi under control of another man?"

 

What kind of a question is that? And how is it relevant to what we are discussing?

 

"If you have Devi (power of cognition and desire), will you entrust it to me?"

 

Why should I mentally speculate on what 'I would do if I had Devi'? That would be a form if interpretation.

 

"And can eternal bhagwan be just a glance as made out in the purports?"

 

Here is the purport you refer to:

"Lying in the causal water as the primal purusa-avatara He casts His glance towards Maya (the limited potency). Such glance is the efficient cause of the mundane creation."

 

Why can not God glance to create the cosmic manifestations? Is He not all powerful?

 

"Note: In the purports Linga rupi is translated as “in the form of male generating organ”. On the other hand, in all Sanskrit scriptures “Linga” means indicatory sign."

 

Yes, linga has many meanings. However, since this is regarding creation, the most natural translation of the Sanskrit is male generating organ (a creative organ).

 

"Then what is manifest in what?"

 

The Lord of the world Maha-Visnu is manifest in him by His subjective portion in the form of His glance.

 

"Enquire yourself. In 1.8, cited above, Mahesvarah is described as sanatanah bhagwan. Sanatanah is eternal and not manifest at some time. Moreover, it is sanatanah bhagwan Sambhu. Sambhu is self generated – without a source."

 

Sambhu is, I think any Hindu no matter what his philosophy would agree, a name of Lord Shiva. And that is what is being referred to here. There is no need to use an indirect translation. The most natural translation of Sambhu when the verse is talking about Lord Shiva is Sambhu, a name of Shiva.

 

"It is indeed essential to worship one's diety as ONE WITHOUT A SECOND and towards that end comparisons are self defeating."

 

Never is it written in the Vedas that one can chose any deity and worship him as God. The deity is defined by the scriptures - which one is supreme is also described in the scriptures.

 

"Despite, upanishad's (see Brihad Araynaka for example) statements that God is one and many are his powers, many gurus (for valid reasons) teach many gods -- to ultimately develop samadrishti, which Lord Krishna has stipulated as most essential."

 

Samadrishti is extremely important. In each heart that Supreme Lord resides as Supersoul. As I have already explained every guru coming in a bona fide disciplic succession teaches that Vishnu is the Supreme Lord: Sankaracharya, Ramanuja, Madhva, Chaitanya, Vallabha, Nimbarka and Vishnuswami. They also teach to worship other demigods because they are His faithful servants.

 

"Finally, the ONE WHO BREATHES IN YOU IS THE SUPREME LORD MAHESVARA. He does not have a linga (indicatory shape) and people who argue over shapes and also names are simply living in the mortal material level and have not understodd the atma (spirit); which cannot have a name except through mortal men."

 

Yes, but the Lord can have a transcendental shape - He is not limited to be formless. He has a form and also has a formless aspect otherwise He would not be complete. Again, the scriptures are given by God, therefore the names from the scriptures are not created by mortal men.

 

"Lord is above Vak and so beyond name. He is beyond mind and so he cannot have a mind percieved shape."

 

Yes, in the same way, we should not create this idea in our mind that the Lord cannot have a name or a shape if He so wishes. Why limit God to no name and no form? God is complete, therefore He can also have a name (millions of names) and a form (millions of transcendental forms).

 

"He is indescribable"

 

Which is why I rely on the descriptions God gives Himself in the scriptures. I do not limit Him to say that He has no form, when he specifically says He does have a transcendental form in the scriptures.

 

BG 11.52: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, this form of Mine you are now seeing is very difficult to behold. Even the demigods are ever seeking the opportunity to see this form, which is so dear.

 

BG 11.53: The form you are seeing with your transcendental eyes cannot be understood simply by studying the Vedas, nor by undergoing serious penances, nor by charity, nor by worship. It is not by these means that one can see Me as I am.

 

BG 11.54: My dear Arjuna, only by undivided devotional service can I be understood as I am, standing before you, and can thus be seen directly. Only in this way can you enter into the mysteries of My understanding.

 

Your aspiring servant.

 

P.S. I would like to clarify that I have made no interpretation of my own in my answer, so please do not accuse me of doing so.