thought crimes...

[M_A_R_A 0]

I believe that according to Gita, thought crimes like that which involve pleasuring onself to an image of a woman, etc... are "sin" because it is pleasure for oneself and not for God.

 

what situations do you see sex between husband and wife is pure besides procreation, that is, in what situation is having sex giving pleasure to God besides procreation? And what determines how many children we should have? And is this why we should not have many children?

[Guest guest]

Jay Shree Krishna,

 

I am not very well placed to reply this question, but my we can get a simple reply through the swaminarayan scripture called Vachnamrut the talks of Lord swaminarayan (also known as Shreeji Maharaj) written down by the followers in its Chapter : Gadhada 1'st part 73rd chapter avilable at :

http://www.swaminarayansatsang.com/scriptures/scriptureexplanation.asp?IDProduct=1111&idcategory=27

 

I this part of vachnamrut, we have in one paragraph :

<<Then Shukmuni asked, ‘‘Lord Shri Krishna, as the king of Dwarika had married sixteen thousand one hundred and eight women, each of whom have ten sons and one daughter. How all at Vraj’’ and that of Dwarika10 are both different. In Dwarika As behave in accordance with the principle of Samkhya12 Dharma which enunciate the principle of non-attachment in actions. The followers of Samkhya12 doctrine behave as Atma6, Separate from the body, and even when involved in actions, he remains non-attached and beyond the influence of such Karmas which may be either beneficeant or maleficent. So Shri Krishna was beyond such contact. The Samkhya Principle was followed by king Janak and other Kings. A king who offers dedicated devotion to God and yet as a rular takes part in all kingly activities with a detached mind is said to have followed the Samkhya12 Principle.

Shri Krishna was the King of Dwarka10 and was a householder, but as

he behave with a detached mind, he was heyond all influence of

such activities. In Vrindavan’’, Shri Krishna behaved as a Yogi15 and by his yogic powers could sustain Virya3 even during contact with women. He thus exhibited that he was Narnarayan16, the divine celibate Kapildev17, while addressing his mother devhooti, said in Shrimad Bhagvat18, There is no one excepting Rishi Narnarayan, who was can overcome Maya in the form of a woman.’’ >>

 

Lord swaminarayan also says in this chapter that :

<<"Mere non-attachment can not help one to become free from material desires. Alone by itself,it would die. But Atmanishtha-the knowledge of one's own Atma-which is Sat Chit Anand and the knowledge that the body is separate from the Atma and is perishible,should be developed. With this knowledge,one can visualize the differance between Atma-the all pervading entity- and the physical body or even the cosmic body,both being ultimately mutable. And Purushottam Bhagwan,who transcends Akshar and who is the support of millions of macrocosms,is my absolute resort.By such intuitional musings Vairagya is generated which is replete with spiritual wisdom. The Vairagya, produced out of such profound knowledge never vanishes. As a small fire is extinguished by pouring some water over it,but the Vadavanala fire, which resides in the depth of the ocean is not extinguished even with the water of the whole ocean.>>

 

I hope this will help you answer your question.

even though i suggest you to read the whole chapter .

 

http://www.swaminarayansatsang.com/scriptures/scriptureexplanation.asp?IDProduct=1111&idcategory=27

 

[sampath 0]

"thought is not a crime".Even in stalinist russia and hitler's germany thought crime wasnt punished.

 

Hinduism is practical.It did not say "love is sin".It said "love is divine".Just visit gajuraho or read kokoham and kamasudhra or see the sculputures.

 

sex is considered as an integral part of a man.Our religion said without marrying and having a child a man will go to narag called 'puth'.Many saints like agasthya,valmigi,viswamithra married and lead a householder's life.

 

please stop this puritan concept.Sex aint sin,thought aint crime

[Guest guest]

according to you, atleast forceful sex is crime or not ?

 

Nobody says sex is crime, but if it is not regulated that would be a sin.

 

The thought that leads to it is also a sin.

[Guest guest]

http://www.gita-society.com/section2/2_chap_17.htm

 

A thought leads to action and action leads to habit.

 

Now action is your Karma, right.

 

So the gita verse on Karma -

 

Good Karma=Good Fruit

Bad Karma=Bad Fruit

 

So..

 

If you combine both items

 

Bad thoughts lead to Bad Fruit, eventually.

 

So be careful...

[sampath 0]

Forceful sex is crime at times.At times not.There are 4 types of marriages.Uthama which is arranged marriage.Gandharva which is love marriage.

 

For rakshasa and paisasa marriages the bride can be carried forcefully and be married.Those marriages werent ideal,but still werent banned.

 

Even in mahabharatha Bheeshma carried away amba and ambalika forcefully to get them married to visithraveerya.

 

amba and ambalika were forcefully made to copulate with vyasa rishi.Mahabharatha says that amba closed her eyes in horror of seeing vyasa rishi so she had a blind son,tritharashtra.Ambalika went white in horror so she had pandu who had lukoderma.

 

Hinduism is practical.It even permitted women having sex with other men while their husbands were alive.For example kunti,mathri copulated with devas while their husband pandu was alive.Amba and ambalika copulated with sage veda vyasa while their husband visithra veerya was alive.

 

Even devas like Indhra couldnt control their lust.Pathivradha akalya copulated with indra while her husband was bathing.

 

context,thats the key.Hinduism is practical.It lays down laws which cause highest benefit to the society.It was designed for the benefits of the householder and society.

 

The incidents involving kunti,mathri and amba,ambalika shows that ksathriya women should put the welfare of the country before their whims and fancies.

 

such dharma wasnt levied for bhramin women and vysya women.It was not needed.

 

we might say paisasa and rakshasa marriages are against the rights of women.But even if vedas had banned them,people would have continued it.So vedas regulated that habit,saying "such marriages arent ideal.But if you do them,follow these rules atleast"

 

for example bheesma forcefully carried away amba,ambalika and ambika.But he let off ambika(im not sure of the name) when she said that she was in love with salva.

 

when is thought a crime?When saints indulge in such thoughts its sin.For example viswamithra did that with oorvasi.While doing it he was in penance.So it was sin.

 

But saint kousika married a woman and led a married life.It wasnt sin for him,because he clearly knew what time to allocate to which duty.

 

For householders like us,thought and even action (at times) aint a sin.

[maadhav 0]

sanskrit language/vedic culture has not word that translates to crime, which means an act that adversely and seriously affactes another person or persons.

 

vedic word is paapa - sin.

 

once a person determines or vows what his/her dharma is, then after he/she needs to follow certain rules accordingly.

e.g. a sanyasi or a brahmachari should not think of any sex.

even watching sex acts of animals or insects is not good for them.

 

a grihasti can think of sex with his wife, but none else.

still it is better not to think and not do, but do when time is right.

 

thought leads hankering for action, action accrues karma good or bad.

 

dyAyato vishhayAn punsa

sangastshupajAyate

sangAt sanjAyate kAmah

kAkAt krodhobhi jAyate

kridhAt bhavati sammoha

sammohAt smrit vibhrama

smriti bhransjAt bhddhu nAsha

buddhi nASAt prNashyati

 

says krishna.

 

swami ramatirtha has said that

one who can control the mind, can control the world.

 

hope it helps.