what is a happy life

[Guest guest]

********so why are you bothering ourselves with your theoric explanations? first experience then preach ********

 

If you are bothered it is your problem.

 

18.20 Sarvabhooteshu yenaikam bhaavamavyayameekshate;

Avibhaktam vibhakteshu tajjnaanam viddhi saattwikam.

 

18.20. That by which one sees the one indestructible Reality in all beings, not separate in all the separate beings—know thou that knowledge to be Sattwic (pure).

 

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh Om Vinayaka namo Om

 

May he guide us.

 

Re

(Astoma sat gamaya.*****************

What does the above mean?)

 

It is a prayer well known. sorry about the spelling.

 

Asato Maa

Asato Maa Sat Gamaya

Tamaso Maa Jyotir Gamaya

Mrutyor Maa Amrutam Gamaya

 

Lead me from the unreal to Real;

Lead me from darkness (ignorance) to Light (knowledge)

Lead me from death to Immortality.

Om Peace! Peace!! Peace!!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jai Ganesh

 

Your title itself is perfection itself. “Perfection is in our identity”

 

But then why do we (the individuals) not feel that we are perfect? How Maya can affect a perfect individual?

 

 

 

*****Re (Now will you please tell me: What can be manifest in this “un-manifest state, individuality?)

 

Lords supreme abode that which is avyaktah in this human existence.**************

 

 

*********18.20 That by which one sees the one undivided undecaying Reality in all beings, not separate in all the separate beings—know thou that knowledge to be Sattwic (pure).

 

18.21 But that knowledge which sees in all beings various entities of distinct kinds as different from one another—know thou that knowledge to be Rajasic (passionate).

 

 

parmAtma resides in the heart of us all, we are his creation therefore all of us has that common bond.A rajsik person does not see the lord in all he is selfish and thinks he is this body. ******

 

 

Please read the above two verses. Lord here is not only talking about paramatma or himself but of the jivas also -- “which sees in all beings various entities of distinct kinds as different from one another—know thou that knowledge to be Rajasic (passionate)”.

You say: “ ------- he is selfish and thinks he is this body”. But you also maintain that distinct individuality is eternal? So, even without body sense one can feel different and that is rajasic.

 

 

 

 

**********This unmanifest state is called the imperishable or Brahman. This is said to be the ultimate goal. Those who reach My Supreme abode do not return (or take rebirth). (8.21

 

Re: (What can be manifest in this “un-manifest state, individuality?)

 

Lords supreme abode that which is avyaktah in this human existence.****************

 

Your answer is perfect but it does not explain whether avyaktah will contain Atanu as individual or not?

 

We can understand this better if we also consider 13.16, which you have added:

 

Undivided, yet appears as if divided in beings; He, the object of knowledge, is the creator, sustainer, and destroyer of (all) beings. (13.16)

 

And also

 

7.18. Noble indeed are all these; but I deem the wise man as My very Self (yuktatma); for, steadfast in mind, he is established in Me alone as the supreme goal.

 

And also

 

18.17. He who is ever free from the egoistic notion, whose intelligence is not tainted by (good or evil), though he slays these people, he slayeth not, nor is he bound (by the action).

 

 

And finally the following four verses:

 

5.17. Their intellect absorbed in That, their self being That; established in That, with That as their supreme goal, they go whence there is no return, their sins dispelled by knowledge.

 

5.19. Even here (in this world) birth (everything) is overcome by those whose minds rest in equality; Brahman is spotless indeed and equal; therefore, they are established in Brahman.

 

Please note “their self being That” in 5.17.

 

18.53 Ahankaaram balam darpam kaamam krodham parigraham;

Vimuchya nirmamah shaanto brahmabhooyaaya kalpate.

 

18.53. Having abandoned egoism, strength, arrogance, anger, desire, and covetousness, free from the notion of “mine” and peaceful,—he is fit for becoming Brahman.

 

Please note “free from notion of mine” in 18.53

 

18.54 Brahmabhootah prasannaatmaa na shochati na kaangkshati;

Samah sarveshu bhooteshu madbhaktim labhate paraam.

 

18.54. Being absorbed in Brahman, serene in the Self, he neither grieves nor desires; the same to all beings, he attains supreme devotion unto Me.

 

 

Om Namah Sivayya

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

 

(But then why do we (the individuals) not feel that we are perfect? How Maya can affect a perfect individual?)

Sattva or goodness, Rajas or activity, and Tamas or inertia; these three Gunas (or states) of mind (or Prakriti) bind the imperishable soul to the body, O Arjuna. (14.05)

Atma in the body is My eternal indivisible fragment indeed. Atma gets bound (or attached, and is called Jeevaatma) due to superimposition or association with the six sensory faculties, including the mind, of perception. (15.07)

 

This is a jail, Durga, the covering of the material energy covers our pefaction just as the covering of the cloud blocks the sun.

Don’t ask me why we chose this condition, but the lord is so kind he never abandon us he goes with us every where we go, he is the other bird ,waiting for the one who is struggling to enjoy, to look back.

 

 

 

*********18.20 That by which one sees the one undivided undecaying Reality in all beings, not separate in all the separate beings—know thou that knowledge to be Sattwic (pure).

 

18.21 But that knowledge which sees in all beings various entities of distinct kinds as different from one another—know thou that knowledge to be Rajasic (passionate).

 

 

Re

 

(Please read the above two verses. Lord here is not only talking about paramatma or himself but of the jivas also --)

 

Yes the lord is only taking about jivas knowledge in sattwic rajasic or tamsic, he is above the three gunas.

A sattvic person would see the lord in all and one who is in mode of passion fail to see that, he is simply engaged in sense gratification.

I see no contradiction here.

Individuality is not satvic rajsic or tamsic

But the individual devoid of god is rajsic and the creation devoid of any support is tamsic.

 

re

(You say: “ ------- he is selfish and thinks he is this body”. But you also maintain that distinct individuality is eternal? So, even without body sense one can feel different and that is rajasic.)

 

the distinct individuality of the conscious being is not the body, it just exist, its not distinct from the lord in quality.

There was never a time when I, you, or these kings did not exist; nor shall we ever cease to exist in the future. (2.12)

 

So you tell me what is rajsic about individual existence?

 

 

 

 

Re

Lords supreme abode that which is avyaktah in this human existence.****************

 

(Your answer is perfect but it does not explain whether avyaktah will contain Atanu as individual or not?)

Well if you going there, and having reached there you don’t suddenly diappear.

 

 

We can understand this better if we also consider 13.16, which you have added:

 

Undivided, yet appears as if divided in beings; He, the object of knowledge, is the creator, sustainer, and destroyer of (all) beings. (13.16)

Whose object of knowledge? If not all beings.

 

 

 

7.18. Noble indeed are all these; but I deem the wise man as My very Self (yuktatma); for, steadfast in mind, he is established in Me alone as the supreme goal.

 

And also

 

18.17. He who is ever free from the egoistic notion, whose intelligence is not tainted by (good or evil), though he slays these people, he slayeth not, nor is he bound (by the action).

 

 

And finally the following four verses:

 

5.17. Their intellect absorbed in That, their self being That; established in That, with That as their supreme goal, they go whence there is no return, their sins dispelled by knowledge.

 

5.19. Even here (in this world) birth (everything) is overcome by those whose minds rest in equality; Brahman is spotless indeed and equal; therefore, they are established in Brahman.

 

Please note “their self being That” in 5.17.

 

18.53 Ahankaaram balam darpam kaamam krodham parigraham;

Vimuchya nirmamah shaanto brahmabhooyaaya kalpate.

 

18.53. Having abandoned egoism, strength, arrogance, anger, desire, and covetousness, free from the notion of “mine” and peaceful,—he is fit for becoming Brahman.

Re

(Please note “free from notion of mine” in 18.53)

 

Mera muj me kuch nahi jo kachu he tor, tera tujko arpan karu kya lagega more

I have quoted this from memoary means I have nothing what ever is your, offering that which is yours what loss is that to me.

 

18.54 Brahmabhootah prasannaatmaa na shochati na kaangkshati;

Samah sarveshu bhooteshu madbhaktim labhate paraam.

 

18.54. Being absorbed in Brahman, serene in the Self, he neither grieves nor desires; the same to all beings, he attains supreme devotion unto Me.

 

I will accept this blessing of yours

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

One who knows the unmanifest and manifest together know.

 

Worshippers of only the manifest go to darkness.

 

Worshippers of only the unmanifest go to more darkness.

 

Know Rig Veda:

 

Aditi is all -- the heavens, the earth, the father, the son.

 

Know: Vasudeva is all.

 

Aditi-Vasudeva is one, the seed of all. But Aditi is there since the light of all lights exists.

 

Jyotishaamapi tajjyotistamasah paramuchyate;

Jnaanam jneyam jnaanagamyam hridi sarvasya vishthitam.

 

That, the Light of all lights, is beyond darkness; it is said to be knowledge, the Knowable and the goal of knowledge, seated in the hearts of all.

 

 

 

The above I tells me and I wants Atanu to share with you.

 

 

Vasudevayya Namoh

Bhavani Namoh

Bhava Namoh

 

Pray all these aspects of the Supreme bless us together.

[Guest guest]

******Mera muj me kuch nahi jo kachu he tor, tera tujko arpan karu kya lagega more*************

 

 

That summarises it. This is happy life.

[Guest guest]

************* (But then why do we (the individuals) not feel that we are perfect? How Maya can affect a perfect individual?)

 

Sattva or goodness, Rajas or activity, and Tamas or inertia; these three Gunas (or states) of mind (or Prakriti) bind the imperishable soul to the body, O Arjuna. (14.05)

 

Atma in the body is My eternal indivisible fragment indeed. Atma gets bound (or attached, and is called Jeevaatma) due to superimposition or association with the six sensory faculties, including the mind, of perception. (15.07) *******************

 

 

Ganesh Prasad Ji

 

There is minor variation in our understanding. In the verses which you have quoted above, where is the word atma? I reproduce the verses below.

 

14.05 Sattwam rajastama iti gunaah prakriti sambhavaah;

Nibadhnanti mahaabaaho dehe dehinam avyayam.

 

 

15.07 Mamaivaamsho jeevaloke jeevabhootah sanaatanah;

Manah shashthaaneendriyaani prakritisthaani karshati.

 

 

 

I will give evidences that what you call individual atma is actually the eternal purusha part of me that in association with prakriti seems to be the body-mind-senses (the field).

 

 

All from Chapter 13

 

Lord explains what is field

 

2. This body, O Arjuna, is called the Field; he who knows it, is called the Knower of the Field, by those who know of them, that is, by the sages.

 

3. Do thou also know Me as the Knower of the Field in all fields, O Arjuna! Knowledge of both the Field and the Knower of the Field is considered by Me to be the knowledge.

 

 

6. The great elements, egoism, intellect and also unmanifested Nature, the ten senses and one, and the five objects of the senses,

 

 

NOTE: Great elements: earth, water, fire, air and ether. The ten senses: the five organs of knowledge (ears, skin, eyes, tongue and nose), and the five organs of action (hand, feet, mouth, anus and generative organ).

 

THE ONE: this is the mind (Indra who is the Lord of senses – the Maruts). The five objects of the senses are sound, touch, colour, taste and smell.

 

 

7. Desire, hatred, pleasure, pain, the aggregate (the body), fortitude and intelligence—the Field has thus been described briefly with its modifications.

 

 

Now few verses to explain what is knowledge

 

8. Humility, unpretentiousness, non-injury, forgiveness, uprightness, service of the teacher, purity, steadfastness, self-control, 9. Indifference to the objects of the senses, also absence of egoism, perception of (or reflection on) the evil in birth, death, old age, sickness and pain, 10. Non-attachment, non-identification of the Self with son, wife, home and the rest, and constant even-mindedness on the attainment of the desirable and the undesirable,

 

11. Unswerving devotion unto Me by the Yoga of non-separation, resort to solitary places, distaste for the society of men,

 

.

12. Constancy in Self-knowledge, perception of the end of true knowledge—this is declared to be knowledge, and what is opposed to it is ignorance.

 

 

Then finally Lord Krishna explains the object of knowledge knowing which one becomes immortal

 

 

13 Jneyam yattat pravakshyaami yajjnaatwaa’mritamashnute;

Anaadimatparam brahma na sattannaasaduchyate.

 

 

13. I will declare that which has to be known, knowing which one attains to immortality, the beginningless supreme Brahman, called neither being nor non-being.

 

 

13.15 Sarvendriyagunaabhaasam sarvendriyavivarjitam;

Asaktam sarvabhricchaiva nirgunam gunabhoktru cha

 

.

15. Shining by the functions of all the senses, yet without the senses; unattached, yet supporting all; devoid of qualities, yet their experiencer,

 

NOTE: Nirgunam word in 13.15

 

 

16. Without and within (all) beings, the unmoving and also the moving; because of His subtlety, unknowable; and near and far away is That.

 

 

17. And undivided, yet He exists as if divided in beings; He is to be known as the supporter of beings; He devours and He generates also.

 

 

18. That, the Light of all lights, is beyond darkness; it is said to be knowledge, the Knowable and the goal of knowledge, seated in the hearts of all.

 

 

 

Now I will try to clear the shadow of difference that exists in our understanding.

 

 

Prakritim purusham chaiva viddhyaanaadee ubhaavapi;

Vikaaraamshcha gunaamshchaiva viddhi prakritisambhavaan.

 

20. Know thou that Prakriti and Purusha are beginningless; and know also that all modifications and qualities are born of Nature.

 

 

There is no atma mentioned here. It is wrong to talk of Atma in the body as if it is separate from the Lord – the ONE ATMA – the light of all lights. It is eternal Purusha who is appearing to be the “field” in association with eternal prakriti. But eternal Atma is unchangeable, undeludable. SAT is not affected by Maya.

 

 

15.7 Mamaivaamsho jeevaloke jeevabhootah sanaatanah;

Manah shashthaaneendriyaani prakritisthaani karshati.

 

15.7. A portion of Myself is immortal jeevabhootah in the world of life, draws to (itself) the (five) senses with the mind for the sixth, abiding in Nature.

 

Lord has not said Atma.

 

Yajur Veda:

 

Rudra is the shining soul of ALL.

 

 

 

Again see below:

 

13.22 Purushah prakritistho hi bhungkte prakritijaan gunaan; Kaaranam gunasango’sya sadasadyoni janmasu.

 

13.22. The Purushah seated in Nature experiences the qualities born of Nature; attachment to the qualities is the cause of his birth in good and evil wombs.

 

NOTE: No atma again in 13.22

 

13.23 Upadrashtaanumantaa cha bhartaa bhoktaa maheshwarah;

Paramaatmeti chaapyukto dehe’smin purushah parah.

 

13.23. The Supreme Soul in this body is also called the spectator, the permitter, the supporter, the enjoyer, the maheshwarah and the Supreme Self.

 

 

NOTE now ATMA has come in “Paramaatmeti”. And Purusha is now “purushah parah” and Maheshwaram.

 

 

 

13.28 . He sees, who sees the Supreme Lord, existing equally in all beings, the unperishing within the perishing.

 

13. 29. Because he who sees the same Lord dwelling equally everywhere does not destroy the Self by the self, he goes to the highest goal.

 

 

13.32 Anaaditwaan nirgunatwaat paramaatmaayam avyayah;

Shareerastho’pi kaunteya na karoti na lipyate.

 

 

13.32. Being without beginning and devoid of (any) qualities, the Supreme Self, imperishable, though dwelling in the body, O Arjuna, neither acts nor is tainted!

 

 

NOTE: “Anaaditwaan nirgunatwaat paramaatmaayam”

 

 

Attachment to Gunas is attachment to qualities – based on which the individualities flourish. Attachment to individuality is attachment to ego – the purusha prakriti combination (the field with modifications) and not to unchanging, eternal, undeluded, supreme SELF.

 

 

18.20 That by which one sees the one undivided undecaying Reality in all beings, not separate in all the separate beings—know thou that knowledge to be Sattwic (pure).

 

 

18.21 But that knowledge which sees in all beings various entities of distinct kinds as different from one another—know thou that knowledge to be Rajasic (passionate).

 

 

Vision of the undivided eternal reality beneath the manifest apparent distinct entities is true knowledge. Seeing one atma is true knowledge. Till one wishes for that one will not be granted that.

 

 

*********This is a jail, Durga, the covering of the material energy covers our pefaction just as the covering of the cloud blocks the sun.*************

 

 

Is Durga then the evil? She is the source of Vasudeva who again is the source of Durga (Aditi). But actually all of it is from and in the Bhava, which is the unmoving seer.

 

 

This is no jail. There is no cloud. The cloud is in the mind which conjures up different souls distinct from sutratma.

 

 

 

******A sattvic person would see the lord in all and one who is in mode of passion fail to see that, he is simply engaged in sense gratification.

I see no contradiction here.

 

Individuality is not satvic rajsic or tamsic*******************

 

 

Individuality is the field with its modifications. It is Purusha entangled in Maya and imagining that Purusha is different from the unchanging Sat-Chit-Anand.

 

 

 

*********Re (You say: “ ------- he is selfish and thinks he is this body”. But you also maintain that distinct individuality is eternal? So, even without body sense one can feel different and that is rajasic.)

 

the distinct individuality of the conscious being is not the body, it just exist, its not distinct from the lord in quality. ***********************

 

 

But the light of all lights is devoid of quality – that is what Lord Krishna imparts to us as knowledge of the knowable.

 

 

 

**********There was never a time when I, you, or these kings did not exist; nor shall we ever cease to exist in the future. (2.12)

 

So you tell me what is rajsic about individual existence?*******************

 

 

As such individuality (which is Purusha) is not Rajasic. But Purusha not knowing the unchanging-nirguna “light of all lights” is Tamasic. And knowing only the effects of Prakriti as SAT is rajasic. When one knows the light of all lights one knows and enjoys the UNIVERSE -- all varieties, all pains, all joys as one atma and BLISS.

 

 

 

 

Re

Lords supreme abode that which is avyaktah in this human existence.****************

 

(Your answer is perfect but it does not explain whether avyaktah will contain Atanu as individual or not?)

 

*******Well if you going there, and having reached there you don’t suddenly diappear.*****

 

 

That depends on Bhava that is in me. --- “Howsoever one meditates on me, I grant him that”. In fact, to reach there Atanu (the sense of i) has to vanish sooner or later as below.

 

 

18.53. Having abandoned egoism (the I sense), strength, arrogance, anger, desire, and covetousness, free from the notion of “mine” and peaceful,—he is fit for attaining Brahman.

 

 

5.17. Their intellect absorbed in That, their self being That; established in That, with That as their supreme goal, they go whence there is no return, their sins dispelled by knowledge.

 

 

 

 

Now let us see few verses which explains the cause of rebirths

 

14.5. Purity, passion and inertia—these qualities, O mighty-armed Arjuna, born of Nature, bind fast in the body, the embodied, the indestructible!

 

14. 9. Sattwa attaches to happiness, Rajas to action, O Arjuna, while Tamas, shrouding knowledge, attaches to heedlessness only!

 

14.20. The embodied one, having crossed beyond these three Gunas out of which the body is evolved, is freed from birth, death, decay and pain, and attains to immortality.

 

So what is individuality as per you? Is it unchanging Purusha or the field (purusha apparently modified by Prakriti). The field changes from time to time depending on attachment to Gunas (desires).

 

And what is liberation, if not giving up attachment to Gunas? “The embodied one, having crossed beyond these three Gunas out of which the body is evolved, is freed from birth, death, decay and pain, and attains to immortality”. In other words, what is immortality if not Nirguna?

Contemplate.

Contemplate why after describing field and knower of field, Lord says that the knowable has to be known in order to attain immortality. As part of knowledge Lord says: “Unswerving devotion unto Me by the Yoga of non-separation”. Why even after this unswerving devotion, the knowable, which is NIRGUNAM must be known?

Contemplate. Is it because without knowing the knowable, one cannot be guna free?

 

Om Namah Vasudevayya – The all - The Lord of the Universe -- all fields and the knower in all fields.

Om Bhavani Namah – The Devi – the desire and the power of cognition of the Lord of the Universe.

Tadvane Namah Namoh – Maheswara -- knowable jyoti rupah sanatanah Sambhu

 

Apparently three but He is one – Brahman, Sadasiva, Govinda, Self -- whatever you prefer and HE is within. Within, because outside is seen through the senses; and senses cannot show you the truth. When you ignore support from senses, there would be no outside -- all is within.

 

Maha Narayan U.

 

XXI-1: May the Supreme who is the ruler of all knowledge, controller of all created beings, the preserver of the Vedas and the one overlord of Hiranyagarbha, be benign to me. I am the Sadasiva described thus and denoted by Pranava.

 

Om Namah Sivayya

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

Pranam Atanu

 

RE

(Apparently three but He is one – Brahman, Sadasiva, Govinda)

 

i am happy in this knowledge

 

but this tiny i can not cotemplate to be on par with them, the very thought scares me,

 

i have a great respect for you and if i can i will come back on this later.In meantime i will try and put in to practice this

******Mera muj me kuch nahi jo kachu he tor, tera tujko arpan karu kya lagega more.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Namaskar

 

before I take a break take a look at this slokas

 

indriyani parany ahur

indriyebhyah param manah

manasas tu para buddhir

yo buddheh paratas tu sah

 

The working senses are superior to dull matter; mind is higher than the senses; intelligence is still higher than the mind; and he is even higher than the intelligence.(3.42)

 

evam buddheh param buddhva

samstabhyatmanam atmana

jahi satrum maha-baho

kama-rupam durasadam

Thus, knowing the Atma to be superior to the intellect, and controlling the mind by the intellect (that is purified by Jnana), one must kill this mighty enemy, Kaama, O Arjuna. (3.43)

 

Lord is clearly referring to Arjun as sah and then in next verse that same sha is subtituated to be Atma superior to intellect.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Om Namah Sivayya

 

[Guest guest]

Maha Narayan U.

 

XXI-1: May the Supreme who is the ruler of all knowledge, controller of all created beings, the preserver of the Vedas and the one overlord of Hiranyagarbha, be benign to me. I am the Sadasiva described thus and denoted by Pranava.

 

*******but this tiny i can not cotemplate to be on par with them, the very thought scares me, ***************

 

 

You are correct. This cannot be a thought. Since mind cannot reach him.

 

The sage in above upanishad is not making an ego bound assertion. He is ego less and so he can say that the small i is not anything. The real I is you, Lord. This is ultimate submission and not pride.

 

 

******Mera muj me kuch nahi jo kachu he tor, tera tujko arpan karu kya lagega more.************

 

One will, when egoity is gone, will know that "Mera muj me kuch nahi jo kachu he tor, tera tujko arpan karu kya lagega more" and "I am the Sadasiva described thus and denoted by Pranava" are saying the same thing.

 

 

*********the very thought scares me************

 

Yes, till the thought is there.

 

 

[Guest guest]

********yo buddheh paratas tu sah

 

Lord is clearly referring to Arjun as sah and then in next verse that same sha is subtituated to be Atma superior to intellect.****************

 

It is absolutely correct. Till One knows one to be field with modification (Purusha bound by maya) Gunas control everything.

 

When one knows one's true nature -- the atma -- that is the seer of the plays of Guna and not the doer, one becomes controller of mind and even the intellect. One just becomes a seer and not doer. To do that the small i has to disappear as a doer. Absolute submission and devotion is the path.

 

Lord gives that knowledge. He says be a knower of field and know the knowable.

 

 

5.17. Their intellect absorbed in That, their self being That; established in That, with That as their supreme goal, they go whence there is no return, their sins dispelled by knowledge.

 

 

Purusha is love searching for itself. Purusha is bliss searching for itself. Egoity will hide the truth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Namaskar Atanu

 

Re

(It is absolutely correct. Till One knows one to be field with modification (Purusha bound by maya) Gunas control everything.)

 

 

You have Adhikaara over your respective duty only, but no control or claim over the results. The fruits of work should not be your motive. You should never be inactive. (2.47) (The word Adhikaara means ability and privilege, prerogative, jurisdiction, discretion, right, preference, choice, rightful claim, authority, control.)

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaskar Ganesh Prasad ji,

 

Yes the bliss is within, but we search it in another.

 

****You have Adhikaara over your respective duty only, but no control or claim over the results. The fruits of work should not be your motive. You should never be inactive. (2.47) (The word Adhikaara means ability and privilege, prerogative, jurisdiction, discretion, right, preference, choice, rightful claim, authority, control.)*********

 

 

Though I do not understand the context but I agree partly.

 

But whose fruits of work by the way? Who does the work? Self does nothing. Prakriti does. Am I the prakriti?

 

 

Jai Ambe

Om Namah Sivayya.

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

Re

(Though I do not understand the context but I agree partly. )

 

we simply can not be just the seer, why else Krishna ask Arjun to fight,to do his duty.

 

 

Re

(But whose fruits of work by the way? Who does the work? Self does nothing. Prakriti does. Am I the prakriti?)

 

No you are not prakrity, but the Prakrity maps out your life based on previous Karma

 

 

Jai Ambe Maa tu Bhavani Sharnme lege

Om Namah Sivayya.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

******You have Adhikaara over your respective duty only, but no control or claim over the results. The fruits of work should not be your motive. You should never be inactive. (2.47) (The word Adhikaara means ability and privilege, prerogative, jurisdiction, discretion, right, preference, choice, rightful claim, authority, control.*********

 

 

This is your blessing and caution to me. I will keep this advice foremost. Thank you.

 

But still I ask "who does?"

 

 

2.27 Prakriteh kriyamaanaani gunaih karmaani sarvashah;

Ahamkaaravimoodhaatmaa kartaaham iti manyate.

 

2. 27. All actions are wrought in all cases by the qualities of Nature only. He whose mind is deluded by egoism thinks: “I am the doer”.

 

 

Yastwaatmaratir eva syaad aatmatriptashcha maanavah;

Aatmanyeva cha santushtas tasya kaaryam na vidyate.

 

But for that man who rejoices only in the Self, who is satisfied in the Self, who is content in the Self alone, verily there is nothing to do.

 

Naiva tasya kritenaartho naakriteneha kashchana;

Na chaasya sarvabhooteshu kashchidartha vyapaashrayah.

 

For him there is no interest whatsoever in what is done or what is not done; nor does he depend on any being for any object.

 

Yasya sarve samaarambhaah kaamasankalpa varjitaah;

Jnaanaagni dagdhakarmaanam tam aahuh panditam budhaah.

19. He whose undertakings are all devoid of desires and (selfish) purposes, and whose actions have been burnt by the fire of knowledge,—him the wise call a sage.

 

Tyaktwaa karmaphalaasangam nityatripto niraashrayah;

Karmanyabhipravritto’pi naiva kinchit karoti sah.

 

 

Having abandoned attachment to the fruit of the action, ever content, depending on nothing, he does not do anything though engaged in activity.

 

 

Na kartritwam na karmaani lokasya srijati prabhuh;

Na karmaphala samyogam swabhaavas tu pravartate.

 

Neither agency nor actions does the Lord create for the world, nor union with the fruits of actions; it is Nature that acts.

 

 

End of citation

 

Gita is 3 or more layered -- appropriate for all types of sadhakas. My Guru has taught me to always study Gita but he has selected verses as per my predilection. I hope you follow me.

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Jai Ambe

 

Om Namah Sivayya

 

 

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

 

Re

(This is your blessing and caution to me. I will keep this advice foremost. Thank you.)

 

I have no right to caution you, all the advise comes from the Lord,he from within and without blesses us.

Out of compassion for them I, who dwell within their heart, destroy the darkness born of ignorance by the shining lamp of knowledge. (10.11)

 

Re

 

(But still I ask "who does?")

 

 

 

The Lord neither creates the urge for action nor the feeling of doership nor the attachment to the results of action in people. All these are done by the (Gunas of) nature. (5.14)

In most translation I have read Svabhavah has been translated as nature or gunas.

Whose svabhava?

 

The Lord does not take the (responsibility for) good or evil deeds of anybody. The knowledge is covered by (the veil of) ignorance, thereby people are deluded. (5.15)

Since time immemorial the soul passing through one yoni to another deluded in thinking the self to be the body, and thus the verse 2.27 apply

2.27 Prakriteh kriyamaanaani gunaih karmaani sarvashah;

Ahamkaaravimoodhaatmaa kartaaham iti manyate.

 

2. 27. All actions are wrought in all cases by the qualities of Nature only. He whose mind is deluded by egoism thinks: “I am the doer”.

Does nature act on it own and indiscriminately?

No it has to be the Karma of the self.

svabhava-jena kaunteya

nibaddhah svena karmana

kartum necchasi yan mohat

karisyasy avaso 'pi tat

What you do not wish to do out of delusion; you shall do even that against your will, bound by your own nature-born Karma, O Arjuna. (18.60)

 

Re

 

(Yastwaatmaratir eva syaad aatmatriptashcha maanavah;

Aatmanyeva cha santushtas tasya kaaryam na vidyate.

 

But for that man who rejoices only in the Self, who is satisfied in the Self, who is content in the Self alone, verily there is nothing to do.

 

Naiva tasya kritenaartho naakriteneha kashchana;

Na chaasya sarvabhooteshu kashchidartha vyapaashrayah.

 

For him there is no interest whatsoever in what is done or what is not done; nor does he depend on any being for any object.

 

Yasya sarve samaarambhaah kaamasankalpa varjitaah;

Jnaanaagni dagdhakarmaanam tam aahuh panditam budhaah.

19. He whose undertakings are all devoid of desires and (selfish) purposes, and whose actions have been burnt by the fire of knowledge,—him the wise call a sage.

 

Tyaktwaa karmaphalaasangam nityatripto niraashrayah;

Karmanyabhipravritto’pi naiva kinchit karoti sah.

 

 

Having abandoned attachment to the fruit of the action, ever content, depending on nothing, he does not do anything though engaged in activity. )

 

Yes give up the desires of this material world, burn off the Karma know the self, all these slokas are wonderful to contemplate.

 

 

Na kartritwam na karmaani lokasya srijati prabhuh;

Na karmaphala samyogam swabhaavas tu pravartate.

 

Re

(Neither agency nor actions does the Lord create for the world, nor union with the fruits of actions; it is Nature that acts.)

 

Translation varies from author to author, it is quite clear even to my limited knowledge in sanskrit, the lord is denying any involvement but it is the svabhava that kicks in.

 

 

Re

 

(Gita is 3 or more layered -- appropriate for all types of sadhakas. My Guru has taught me to always study Gita but he has selected verses as per my predilection. I hope you follow me.)

Gita is for all, my dadvant to your guru.

Do you mean that I should follow you or are you asking me to understand your point of view?

One thing is for sure we have a lot in common, we both read gita, and we both love Lord Shiva.

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Jai Ambe

 

Om Namah Sivayya

 

[Guest guest]

 

***********Do you mean that I should follow you or are you asking me to understand your point of view?***********************

 

 

See the trickery of words. Not for nothing Lord Dakshinamurti is silent. Some initiates (including me), sometimes feel sad that why Lord does not speak as Shiva as much as HE speaks as Krishna or Vishnu. But one understands with time.

 

 

I meant the latter -- to appreciate my point. Self less Karma is for some, Bhakti is for some, Jnana is for some – and boundaries are for instruction. Initiates only fight over the boundaries and forget to seek the one being inside all boundaries.

 

 

****************

One thing is for sure we have a lot in common, we both read gita, and we both love Lord Shiva.

 

*************************

 

Yes, I feel good about it. Till one becomes support less, one always wants support from outside. It feels good to know that there are some others also.

 

 

Rabindranath Tagore wrote a drama song called Nataraja. I will give my English version of two lines from a section called Mukti Tattwa.

 

 

Though the whole essence will be lost but still I try below.

 

To I lost, that shines

Who has I in I.

 

 

Jai Rabi Thakur

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Jai Ambe

 

Om Namah Sivayya

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

What is Supreme state of the Self?

 

 

Maitreya U.

 

II-1. Then the revered sage Maitreya went to Kailasa. Approaching him he said: ‘Lord, expound to me the secret of the supreme Truth’. The great god said to him:

 

II-2. The body is said to be the temple; the individual Self (Jiva) is Shiva alone. One should discard the faded flowers in the form of spiritual ignorance and worship God (with the conviction) ‘He and I are one’.

 

II-3. True knowledge consists of seeing non-different in all; deep meditation consists of the mind freed from thinking on sensory objects; bathing is the removal of impurity in the mind and cleansing consists of controlling the senses.

 

II-9. Viewing the body as ‘I’ and mine is smearing oneself with faeces and urine in the place of cosmetics. Thus pure cleansing has been spoken. Cleansing (the body) with mud and water is (the external one) practised in the world.

 

II-10. Cleansing which purifies the mind consists of the destruction of the three inborn tendencies (loka-vasana, shastra-vasana and deha-vasana); (real) cleansing is said to be by washing with mud and water in the form of (true) knowledge and dispassion (Jnana and Vairagya).

 

II-11. Feeling of non-duality is the alms (which is consumed) and the feeling of duality is the thing unfit for consumption. The receiving of alms by the mendicant monk is ordained in accordance with the directions of the Guru and the scripture.

 

II-16. The conviction, which is present from the words of the Guru that there is only one (reality) without a second, alone is the solitude (necessary for meditation) and not a monastery nor the interior of a forest.

 

II-18. There is no (true) renunciation by discarding action, nor by reciting the mantras of Praisa (at the formal ceremony of renunciation). Renunciation has been declared to be the oneness of the individual self (Jiva) and the universal Self (Atman).

 

II-22. The wisest take to contemplation on the reality (of Brahman); the middling ones contemplate on the scripture; low people think of the mantras; the lowest are deluded by (the efficacy) of holy places.

 

II-27. To one desiring liberation worship of idols made of stone, metal, gem and clay results only in the experience of rebirth; hence the sage should perform the worship of his heart alone. To prevent rebirth he shall avoid external worship (of idols).

 

II-29. Do not become one enjoying objects (of the senses), do not also become one believing in the senses. Rejecting all ideations, become that which remains.

 

II-30. Discarding (ideas of) seer, seeing and what is seen along with inward tendencies, may you resort only to the Atman who is the prime source of all phenomena.

 

II-31. That state of remaining like a stone with all ideations quiescent and freed from the states of waking and sleeping is the supreme state of the Self.

 

 

 

 

Om Namah Sivayya

 

[Guest guest]

Namaskar

 

************Svabhavah has been translated as nature or gunas***************

 

 

To me they mean the same. In macroscosmic scale Prakriti is more apt while in microcosmic svabhava. But while referring to svabhava of an individual ones nature or ones prakriti is also talked of.

 

What you have been insisting on till now is 99.9 percent true -- no doubt. Hardly 0.1 percent ever master their nature arising out of Gunas.

 

Today I had an experience of this. One hard knock from sense world and gunas start dancing. It is best to submit wholeheartedly and with devotion to Lord and be contended knowing that Lord does not desert.

 

But still one should know the highest truth spoken of in Upanishads. Lord only exposes these verities to some.

 

 

I will be away for sometime. Will resume on return.

 

 

From Sri Brahma Samhita (you have read it many times though).

 

 

Book 1 TEXT 8

 

niyatih sa rama devi

tat-priya tad-vasam tada

tal-lingam bhagavan sambhur

jyoti-rupah sanatanah

ya yonih sapara saktih

kamo bijam mahad hareh

 

 

 

The goddess, the regulator; the spiritual potency of Him; beloved of Him; under the control of lingam— eternal jyotih-rupah bhagavan sambhuh; that yonih is potency, the desire; the seed; and the faculty of cognition of the Supreme Lord Hareh.

 

 

Submitting ones svabhava under His control will help.

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Om Vinayaka namo Om

 

 

 

Om Sri Gurubhyo Namah Om Sri Ganeshaya Namah Om Saraswatyai Namah

Brihat Parashara Hora Sastra

Sri vakratunda mahakaya koti soorya samaprabha,

Nirvighnam kurumedeva shubha karyeshu sarvada.

O lord with the twisted trunk, with the effulgence of a billion suns,

Always remove the obstacles when I am on an auspicious undertaking

 

Namaste Atanu

Our churning of conciousness has produced some result, and still some unknown answers, some things for me is imposible to digest, I can not see my self as object of my devotion, yes I have to become shivam to to apreaciate SadaShiva, just as only a dimond merchant may recognize a real dimond.

Look forward to resume our discussion.

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

Jai Ganesh

 

********I can not see my self as object of my devotion*******

 

No need to exert really. During coming Maha Shiva Ratri, do japa on empty stomach for as long as you can. You may see something inside which is different from the one you know yourself as on today. Though my hurdles seem to be increasing --- possibly on account of long time spent on discussion and not on japa.

 

 

 

*****I have to become shivam to to apreaciate SadaShiva, just as only a dimond merchant may recognize a real dimond.******8

 

This is true of everyone.

 

 

 

Sri vakratunda mahakaya koti soorya samaprabha,

Nirvighnam kurumedeva shubha karyeshu sarvada.

 

[Guest guest]

I appreciate all that I have imbibed from you.

 

 

May Lord bless you with bliss.

May Lord bless me with bliss.

Let the objects of attraction slowly lose their shine.

 

Om Tryambakam yajamahe

Sugandhim pushtibardhanam

urva ruka iva bandhanat

mrityor muuksia mamrtt

[Guest guest]

Namaskar

 

Conscience within is Lord Shiva – microcosmically and macrocosmically. When conscience is ruffled due to wrongdoings of the self, It becomes Rudra and when happy It becomes Krishna. As Rudra It tore off one head -- representing ego, of Brahma when he lusted after his daughter. Rudra did not come from outside.

 

 

See you after about a week. Have a nice time.

[Guest guest]

*********Our churning of conciousness has produced some result, and still some unknown answers, some things for me is imposible to digest, I can not see my self as object of my devotion******************

 

 

Since most of us think that this body is self. The life force within is the real Self. Identify the life force as the root of the mind, which again is actually a hindrance to appreciate the life force.

 

 

Life force has root in sthanu.

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

Namaskar Atanu

Re

(Since most of us think that this body is self. The life force within is the real Self. Identify the life force as the root of the mind, which again is actually a hindrance to appreciate the life force.

Life force has root in sthanu. )

 

Wonderful, realize the self and its roots, herein lies the true happiness.

 

Make your mind a friend

 

One must elevate, not degrade, oneself by one's own mindxe "mind". The mind alone is one's friend as well as one's enemy. (6.05)

The mind is the friendxe "friend" of those who have control over it, and the mind acts like an enemy for those who do not control it. (6.06)

One who has control over the mind is tranquil in heat and cold, in pleasure and pain, and in honor and dishonor; and is ever steadfast with the Supreme Self. (6.07)

 

Life force has root in sthanu and in this way it is identical but with a difference, one is controlled and the other is the controller.

 

Jai Shree Krishna