The Triple Incarnation of Sai Avatar

[Guest guest]

"Thousand of years ago the great sage Bharadwaja, wishing to master all the vedas (scriptures), was advised by Indra (the ruler of the gods) to perform a yagna (Vedic ritual). Eager to have the Shakti (the consort of Lord Shiva) preside over it and receive her blessings, Bharadwaja left for Kailash (a sacred peak in the Himalayas), the abode of Shiva and Shakti, (male and female aspects fo God), to convey the invitation. Finding them coupled in the cosmic dance, Bharadwaja waited for eight days - apparently ignored by them, although he had failed to comprehend the welcoming smile cast at him by Shakti. Unhappy and disappointed, Bharadwaja decided to return home. But as he began to descend, he fell in a stroke, his left side paralyzed as a result of the cold and fatigue. Shiva then approached and cured him completely by sprinkling on him water from the Kamandalu (vessel). Consoled by Shiva, Bharadwaja was granted boons by both Shiva and Shakti, who also were pleased to attend the yagna. Shiva promised the rishi (sage) that they would both take human form and be born thrice in the Bharadwaja lineage or Gotra (religious kin group); Shiva alone at Shirdi as Shirdi Sai Baba; (Shiva and Shakti as Sathya Sai Baba), and then Shakti alone as Prema Sai."

 

Swami revealed this secret when he cured himself from a serious and dreadful disease (which he purposefully bared which as actually of a devotee's) on 6th July 1963.As a compensatory act to the above incident (where Sage Bharathwaja was paralyzed), Swami, paralyzed Himself on His left side. But Himself being Shiva-Shakthi, Shiva (His right side) cured Shakthi (His left side) by the same sprinkling of water. This incident paved the way to the revelation of this secret by Swami.

 

Shirdi Sai Baba

 

His birth took place around the middle of last century in the State of Hyderabad in India. He visited the village Shirdi few times and took residence there in 1872. He lived in a mosque and had many devotees and visitors. He performed many miracles, gave spiritual teachings to Hindu, Muslim, and other devotees, and died at Shirdi in 1918. Before leaving his body he told one of his devotees that he would return as a boy in 8 years.

 

Sathya Sai Baba

 

Satya Sai Baba was born 8 years after the death of Shirdi Sai Baba on 23 November 1926, in a remote village of Puttaparthi in the State of Andra Predesh and was named Satyanarayana. Satya means truth and Narayana is a name for the Hindu God Vishnu. As a child he manifested supernormal powers materialising sweets, fruits and medicinal herbs for sick friends. In May 1940 at the age of 13 he declared "I am Sai Baba". Following this announcement devotees and disciples began to gather around him. He started performing amazing miracles and has been teaching and doing works of charity since. He said he would live to the age of nineties and would be born again as Prema Sai Baba.

 

Prema Sai Baba

 

Sai Baba will incarnate again one year after his death as Prema Sai Baba. Sai Baba has manifested this picture of himself as Prema Sai Baba. Swami said that this Avathar will take place in Gunaparthi, in the Mandya dist of Karnataka. It is also said that Prof. Kasthuri will be the mother of Premasai.

 

The following question was asked to Sathya Sai Baba by the journalist R.K. Karanjia during an interview in September 1976 (see Interview with journalist - September 1976):

 

Why had this task to be divided into three separate incarnations of the Shirdi, Sathya and Prema Babas?

 

They are not separate. I have already mentioned the complete oneness of the three in the final objective of the mission. I will give you an example. Take a kilo of gur (a sweet substance). The whole of it tastes sweet. Next break it into small pieces. Each of them is sweet. Finally break them into small grains. You find the same sweetness in them. So the difference is one of quantity and not quality. It is the same with the Avathars. Their tasks and powers requisite to them differ according to the time, the situation and the environment. But they belong to, and derive from, one and the same dharma swarup or divine body.

 

Let us take the example of fruit. It begins with the seed which grows into the tree and from it comes the fruit. Work can be compared to the seed, worship to the tree and wisdom to the fruit.

 

The previous Avathar, Shirdi Baba, laid the base for secular integration and gave mankind the message [that] duty is work. The mission of the present Avathar is to make everybody realize that the same God or divinity resides in everyone. People should respect, love and help each other irrespective of color or creed. Thus all work can become a way of worship. Finally, Prema Sai, the third Avathar will promote the evangel news that not only does God reside in everybody, but everybody is God. That will be the final wisdom which will enable every man and woman to go to God. The three Avathars carry the triple message of work, worship and wisdom.

 

For more information:

 

Dr. Sathya Sai Pal Ruhela, The Sai Trinity, Tarang Paperbacks (Vikas Publishing House), New Delhi - Second Edition, 2000, 195 pages - ISBN: 81-259-0999-0

 

The third Sai, Prema Sai Baba, will be born in Gunaparthi, a village in the Mandya district of Karnataka, previously Mysore. (Source: Living Divinity by Shakuntala Balu).

 

Prema means Love

Sai means Sa=Divine and Ai=Mother ie means Divine Mother

Baba means Father

All together it translates into "Loving Divine Mother Father"

 

http://www.saibaba.ws/avatar/tripleincarnation.htm

 

--

 

Prema Sai Baba

 

Sathya Sai Baba says that He is the second of a triple incarnation. The first was Shirdi Sai Baba and the third will be Prema Sai Baba. Below, we give the information that is known about Prema Sai Baba, with references to the sources.

 

The first mention of Prema Sai by Sathya Sai Baba appears to be in the discourse Shiva Shakthi, 6 July 1963, In a conversation between Shiva, Shakthi, and Bharadwaja after Bharadwaja performed a ritual, Shiva said that they would take human form and be born in the Bharadwaja lineage, thrice: Shiva alone as Shirdi Sai Baba, Shiva and Shakthi together at Puttaparthy as Sathya Sai Baba, and Shakthi alone as Prema Sai, later.

 

More information about Prema Sai

 

We have heard often that Prema Sai will be born eight years after the passing of Sathya Sai Baba, which will take place when Sathya Sai Baba is 96. We do not have a reference for this information. In "The Sai Trinity", by Dr. S.P. Ruhela (Taring paperbacks, Vikas Pubishing House Pvt Ltd, New Delhi, 1997), the author states that Sathya Sai Baba has been disclosing small amounts of information to close devotees from time to time and states that Sai Baba has predicted that Prema Sai will be born in Karnataka about 8 years after He leaves this body.

 

Howard Murphet, in his book Sai Baba: Invitation to Glory (Chapter 4), says that

 

Finally, Sathya Sai states, there will be Prema Sai who, one year after the passing of the Sathya Sai form, will be born in Karnataka (the old Mysore State), at a place between Bangalore and the city of Mysore.

 

On page 16 of the book Living Divinity author Shakuntala Balu writes,

 

Sri Sathya Sai Baba has said that there will be one more Sai Avatara called Prema Sai. The third Sai will be born in Gunaparthi, a village in the Mandya district of Karnataka. Thus, Sri Sathya Sai Baba refers not only to his past, but also to the future form he will assume as Prema Sai.

 

In Sathya Sai Baba, The Embodiment of Love, by Peggy Mason and Ron Laing, the authors write about a discussion they had about Prema Sai.

 

We wondered if the next descent as Prema Sai, to come very quickly after the present form is vacated at the age of ninety six, would be female.

 

Baba replied, "No, male, in Mysore -- Karnataka." (Since 1972, the state of Mysore is called Karnataka.)

 

In Glimpses of the Divine: Working with the Teachings of Sai Baba" (1993), author Birgitte Rodriguez writes

 

In a more private talk to students in recent years, Baba told them that the father of His next incarnation, as Prema Sai, had been born in the southern Indian state of Karnataka. He also said that the body of Prema Sai was in the process of being formed.

 

The missions of the triple incarnations

 

In Spirit and the Mind, by Sam Sandweiss, the author recounts an extended interview given by Sathya Sai Baba to the Senior Editor, Mr. R.K. Karanjia, of Blitz new magazine in September 1976.

 

Question: Why had this task to be divided into three separate incarnations of the Shirdi, Sathya, and Prema Baba?

 

Baba: They are not separate. I have already mentioned the complete oneness of the three in the final objective of the mission. ... Their tasks and powers requisite to them differ according to the time, the situation, and the environment. But they belong to, and derive from, the same divine body (dharma swarup).

 

...

 

The previous Avatar, Shirdi Baba, laid the base for secular integration and gave mankind the message of duty as work. The mission of the present Avatar is to make everybody realize that the same God or divinity resides in everyone. People should respect, love, and help each other irrespective of color or creed. Thus, all work can become a way of worship. Finally, Prema Sai, the third Avathar, will promote the evnagel news that not only does God reside in everybody, but everybody is God. That will be the final wisdom that will enable every man and woman to go to God.

 

The three Avathars carry the triple message of work, worship, and wisdom.

 

Hislop's changing ring

 

In John Hislop's My Baba and I, page 55-56, Hislop writes about Swami materializing a ring for Hislop with Prema Sai on it. The image of Prema Sai on the ring actually changed its position over the years. Hislop writes,

 

The stone was a cameo of Prema Sai, the loving Lord of Creation, destined to appear on Earth a few years after the death of the Sathya Sai Body. It was a brownish stone, highly glazed, sculptured in profile, the bridge and length of the nose visible with a suggestion of the arch of the left eye. It was a noble head with shoulder-length hair, moustache, and beard; the head resting on, or emerging from, a lotus flower. His countenance was tranquil, peaceful, majestic.

 

Baba said, "He is only now in the process of birth, so I cannot show more of him. This is the first time he is shown to the world."

 

...

 

Wherever I go, devotees ask to see the ring. ... In a year or so, those devotees who had seen the ring sometime earlier said something surprising on seeing it again. They said, "It is turning. The whole nose can be seen now."

 

My reply was always, in truth, that I could see no change. But they said, "You see it every day and do not notice."

 

... One day, [in 1980], at a devotee meeting, I was showing the ring, and I looked at it carefully. It struck me, "It is different! It is changing!.

 

Now the entire nose is there and visible, whereas at first the entire nose was not visible -- or better to say the nose merged into the edge of the stone and did not appear to be fully visible. But now there is a space between the nose and the edge of the stone. Moreover, a portion of the left eye can be seen and also a portion of the left cheek.

 

Information from: http://www.sathyasai.org/intro/premasai.htm

[Guest guest]

Swami revealed this secret when he cured himself from a serious and dreadful disease

 

this tale is the demonstration that he did not cure himself very well...

 

bring him to a psychiatrist

[Guest guest]

so why can't he cure himself of his pedophilia?

 

[Max 0]

"so why can't he cure himself of his pedophilia?"

 

Exactly, Sai Baba isn't mentioned in the Vedas. He is no more a god than any other normal person. In fact I feel he's blasphemous to call himself an incarnation of Siva. Not that I even believe Siva to be God, Siva is only a demigod and a devotee of Lord Krishna. It's sad that so many people accept these false gods like Sai Baba.

 

Hare Krishna

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

 

( In fact I feel he's blasphemous to call himself an incarnation of Siva. Not that I even believe Siva to be God, Siva is only a demigod and a devotee of Lord Krishna. It's sad that so many people accept these false gods like Sai Baba.)

 

Such callous attitude towards Lord Shiva is uncalled for, your belief has no bearing on reality weather Siva is god or not you can not dismiss him as “only’’ and speak of him in the same bracket “as these false gods” like Sai Baba

 

Lord Shiva has been worshiped as god since the Vedic time by his devotees, it your misfortune to think that it is sad. Lord Shree Krishna says of Rudra I am Shankar, and some people try to find any excuse to dismiss this statement and that is I find very sad.

 

As for Sai Baba I have no comment.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Max 0]

I have eternal respect for Siva, because he is a truly great devotee of Lord Krishna. What I don't have respect for is people running around claiming that they are an incarnation of Siva.

[Guest guest]

 

Lord Shree Krishna says of Rudra I am Shankar, and some people try to find any excuse to dismiss this statement and that is I find very sad.

 

 

 

Not this again. Why can't some people simply read the bhagavad-gItA instead of pulling isolated comments out of context and using them as slogans?

 

In this chapter Krishna is referring to His vibhUtis. This is not a statement of who are His other forms - it is a statement of His vibhUtis. Some of these are other forms of Himself, while others are His devotees, other devatas, etc. The point is that Krishna is describing His representation among various things. The idea is, "the best of everything is Me, the Supreme Lord." He states He is Meru among mountains, prahlAd among Daityas, arjuna among pAnDavas, etc.

 

Using this to "prove" that Krishna and Shiva are the same is just plain incorrect. By the same logic, Krishna is also Arjuna, Krishna is also PrahlAd, Krishna is also Meru, Krishna is also the SAma Veda (but not the other three Vedas), Krishna is Vishnu only (but not the other Adityas), Krishna is fine intelligence, fine speech, and good memory among women.

 

The logic of this is shown to be even more ludicrous when you take it to its natural conclusion. So, let us now worship fine intelligence among women. Or, let us install Mount Meru in the temple and worship Meru. Let us also worship prahlAd, and yet neglect to worship his chosen Deity - it's all the same, right? No need to worship nArAyaNa.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

I have eternal respect for Siva, because he is a truly great devotee of Lord Krishna. What I don't have respect for is people running around claiming that they are an incarnation of Siva.

 

 

Max, it does not matter how much respect you have for Shiva. It does not matter how much pUja you do for Shiva. It does not matter what offerings you cook for Lord Shiva.

 

The bottom line is, if you do not immediately and loudly proclaim Shiva to be another Supreme Deity along with Vishnu, and also agree that They are also Supreme along with all the other Supreme Gods (who are not actually described as such in the Vedas), then you are simply an Evil, Intolerant, Racist, Bigoted, Prejudiced, Hateful, Insulting, Callous Fanatik!

 

As far as your lack of respect for Pedophile Baba, we have already expertly demonstrated without any regard for logic, reason, or scripture, that your statement "Shiva is a very great devotee of Vishnu" indicates your Hateful and Intolerant Nature.

 

You must beg forgiveness from Pedophile Baba. Or he will smite you. Yeah.

 

[Guest guest]

of course to accept the rascal baba as god, you have to concoct that all deities are the same

 

if all deities are god, if all is god... it is easy to justify that also a criminal is god

 

no surprise

[Max 0]

 

Max, it does not matter how much respect you have for Shiva. It does not matter how much pUja you do for Shiva. It does not matter what offerings you cook for Lord Shiva.

 

The bottom line is, if you do not immediately and loudly proclaim Shiva to be another Supreme Deity along with Vishnu, and also agree that They are also Supreme along with all the other Supreme Gods (who are not actually described as such in the Vedas), then you are simply an Evil, Intolerant, Racist, Bigoted, Prejudiced, Hateful, Insulting, Callous Fanatik!

 

As far as your lack of respect for Pedophile Baba, we have already expertly demonstrated without any regard for logic, reason, or scripture, that your statement "Shiva is a very great devotee of Vishnu" indicates your Hateful and Intolerant Nature.

 

You must beg forgiveness from Pedophile Baba. Or he will smite you. Yeah.

 

 

 

Haha I thought you were serious for a second. I hope Pedophile Baba doesn't preform a great miracle and pull a club out of some sand and hit me for being such an evil Westerner (haha). But in all seriousness I'd just like to say that Krishnas are some of funniest coolest people I've ever come in contact with. Thanks for making me laugh. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

and what I'm about to say is NOT sarcastic:

 

HARE KRISHNA

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Sorry i thought you said he is ONLY a demigod, attacking Baba and draging Siva with him, sorry my mistake.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(Not this again. Why can't some people simply read the bhagavad-gItA instead of pulling isolated comments out of context and using them as slogans?)

 

Well if you read the Gita again and again and understand what question Lord Krishna is asked by Arjun you may want to accept his word on face value but hey who am i to argue with a faceless, nameless guest, with all the clues and sarcasm.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Max 0]

 

Jai Ganesh

 

Sorry i thought you said he is ONLY a demigod, attacking Baba and draging Siva with him, sorry my mistake.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

 

 

No what I meant was Siva is a demigod along with many many more demigods and that Sai Baba is nothing but a fake, he isn't an incarnation of Siva and it's bad to say so.

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(No what I meant was Siva is a demigod along with many many more demigods and that Sai Baba is nothing but a fake, he isn't an incarnation of Siva and it's bad to say so. )

 

this is what you wrote and I quote “Siva is only a demigod and a devotee of Lord Krishna. It's sad that so many people accept these false gods like Sai Baba.”

 

Hardly the meaning you are giving now, three person mentioned here and you have used plural to describe them false, this is the method people use to drag good name of someone by implication.

 

Any way I accept your correction, even if I do not agree with your giving Devta status to Lord Siva, I can live with that, after all he is Mukund priya.

 

In any case this not the right thread to discuss this point.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

 

Well if you read the Gita again and again and understand what question Lord Krishna is asked by Arjun you may want to accept his word on face value but hey who am i to argue with a faceless, nameless guest, with all the clues and sarcasm.

 

 

In fact, you are no one to argue with me, or with anyone else for that matter, because your sole modus operandi to get your point across is to villify the other person until he gives up trying to talk some common sense into you.

 

I will say this again - the question to Lord Krishna in gItA chapter 10 was to describe His vibhUtis. When Krishna says He is Shiva among Rudras, Meru among mountains, fine intelligence among women, He is not necessarily referring to literal 1:1 identity. Some of these are His exact equivalents but most are not. That is not the point. The point is, He is referring to His representation among all things. This is the way every major gItA commentator takes it, including, if memory serves, SrI ShankarAcArya.

 

And if you think you are smarter than all the other gItA commentators (even though you do not even read Sanskrit), then by all means worship Lord Shiva instead of Krishna. But also you should have no problems with those who worship Meru instead of Shiva. Or with those who worship cheating instead of any devata. After all, in the same context, Krishna does say that He is the gambling of cheats in BG 10.36. Do you worship cheating, Ganeshprasad? Why not? Are you saying that cheating is not the Supreme God? Well, how intolerant of you!

 

Well, it is all very interesting how the Advaitins want to operate here. They want to use "Among Rudras, I am Shiva" to "prove" that Shiva is equal to Krishna. But when you quote the verse just 14 verses later which says "Among gamblers, I am cheating," suddenly they have a problem with that logic.

 

Can you say double standard?

 

Oh, but don't think. Don't bother about this inconsistency. I am simply Evil and Intolerant and all that. That can be the only reason I brought this up.

 

 

 

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

RE

(In fact, you are no one to argue with me, or with anyone else for that matter, because your sole modus operandi to get your point across is to villify the other person until he gives up trying to talk some common sense into you.)

 

Weather I am no one, without the knowledge of Sanskrit, it is not me who has chosen to argue, it is you hiding behind remaining faceless and nameless and therefore gutless, throwing baseless accusations.

 

Re

(I will say this again - the question to Lord Krishna in gItA chapter 10 was to describe His vibhUtis.)

 

Go fool someone else; here is the question Arjun is asking;

 

TEXT 17

katham vidyam aham yogims

tvam sada paricintayan

kesu kesu ca bhavesu

cintyo 'si bhagavan maya

SYNONYMS

katham--how; vidyam aham--shall I know; yogin--O supreme mystic; tvam--You; sada--always; paricintayan--thinking; kesu--in which; kesu--in which; ca--also; bhavesu--nature; cintyah asi--You are remembered; bhagavan--O Supreme; maya--by me.

TRANSLATION

How should I meditate on You? In what various forms are You to be contemplated, O Blessed Lord?

 

How may I know You, O Lord, by constant contemplation? In what form (of manifestation) are You to be thought of by me, O Lord? (10.17)

 

Re

(When Krishna says He is Shiva among Rudras, Meru among mountains, fine intelligence among women, He is not necessarily referring to literal 1:1 identity.)

 

When lord Shiva is worshiped as god since time memorial it is not hard to make connection, I worship maa Sarasvati and if you can worship Govardhan hill, Meru would not be so difficult to make connection, after all Krishna is saying this, are you doubting his word? This is the gamble I am prepared to take and if Krishna want to cheat me so be it.

 

Re

 

(And if you think you are smarter than all the other gItA commentators (even though you do not even read Sanskrit), then by all means worship Lord Shiva instead of Krishna.)

 

My lack of reading Sanskrit does not stop me having my faith and I do not worship Lord Shiva instead Lord Krishna nor do I worship Lord Krishna instead of Lord Shiva I am happy in both their worship.

 

Re

(But also you should have no problems with those who worship Meru instead of Shiva. Or with those who worship cheating instead of any devata. After all, in the same context, Krishna does say that He is the gambling of cheats in BG 10.36.)

 

If you are able to connect to Meru I have no problem, if cheating is a worshipable process I have no problem, only example I know is Youdhistar cheating Dronacharya on Krishna’s instructions.

 

Re

(Do you worship cheating, Ganeshprasad? Why not? Are you saying that cheating is not the Supreme God? Well, how intolerant of you!)

 

If you can see the cheating of Krishna that act is worshipable, I have not express my view on it but I do not doubt his word, do you Mr/mrs nameless guest doubt his word?

 

Re

(Well, it is all very interesting how the Advaitins want to operate here. They want to use "Among Rudras, I am Shiva" to "prove" that Shiva is equal to Krishna. But when you quote the verse just 14 verses later which says "Among gamblers, I am cheating," suddenly they have a problem with that logic. )

 

How interesting someone who is full of Sanskrit, thinks he has a right to assume I am an advaitin, and thinks I have a problem with verse which says “Among gamblers, I am cheating,”

 

This reminds me of a story of cobbler and a Sanskrit learned Brahmin. The Brahmin could not understand the lord threading elephant through the eye of a needle.

 

Re

(Can you say double standard?)

 

Na.

 

Re

(Oh, but don't think. Don't bother about this inconsistency. I am simply Evil and Intolerant and all that. That can be the only reason I brought this up.)

 

Never called you Evil, you are making this up to make you feel good.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

 

Weather I am no one, without the knowledge of Sanskrit, it is not me who has chosen to argue, it is you hiding behind remaining faceless and nameless and therefore gutless, throwing baseless accusations.

 

 

 

translation: "how dare you disagree with me. you evil, fanatical, warmongering...." etc.

 

 

Go fool someone else; here is the question Arjun is asking;

 

TEXT 17

katham vidyam aham yogims

tvam sada paricintayan

kesu kesu ca bhavesu

cintyo 'si bhagavan maya

SYNONYMS

katham--how; vidyam aham--shall I know; yogin--O supreme mystic; tvam--You; sada--always; paricintayan--thinking; kesu--in which; kesu--in which; ca--also; bhavesu--nature; cintyah asi--You are remembered; bhagavan--O Supreme; maya--by me.

TRANSLATION

How should I meditate on You? In what various forms are You to be contemplated, O Blessed Lord?

 

 

 

Ahem - taking verses out of context are we? Unfortunately for you, this question takes on a very different significance when it is not artificially divorced from the first half of the question.

 

vaktum arhasyasheSheNa divyA hyAtmavibhUtayaH |

yAbhir vibhUtibhir lokAn imAMs tvaM vyApya tiShThasi || 10.16 ||

 

As you can, Arjuna's question to Krishna regarding his various forms was just after asking Krishna to tell him of his vibhUtis by which he pervades these worlds. Hence, the "forms" He is referring to are His vibhUtis - His representation among various things in the manifest world.

 

Saying that Krishna is equating Himself to the other devatas is asinine. Krishna was just declared to be superior even to the other devatas in 10.14.

 

Once again, proof positive that reading within context produces a different understanding than taking isolated shlokas completely out of context. Specifically:

 

Honest approach to gItA --> leads to correct understanding

VHP/HSC/Ramakrishna approach to gItA ----> leads to contradictory and inconsistent misinterpretations

 

 

When lord Shiva is worshiped as god since time memorial it is not hard to make connection, I worship maa Sarasvati

 

 

Precisely, you create philosophy around the religious culture you have already become accustomed to. This is why you are not objective, and why you conveniently rearrange the evidence to suit your needs.

 

By the way, where in the chapter did Krishna say He is "maa Sarasvati?"

 

 

My lack of reading Sanskrit does not stop me having my faith

 

 

Having faith in something does not make it correct.

 

Having no knowledge in Sanskrit makes you dependent on those who do as far as understanding Bhagavad-gItA is concerned.

 

Yet, you reject all bhagavad-gItA commentators who know the subject better than you, based on blind faith as to what is or is not correct.

 

 

and I do not worship Lord Shiva instead Lord Krishna nor do I worship Lord Krishna instead of Lord Shiva I am happy in both their worship.

 

 

Ok, so is it ok to worship Cheating? If Shiva being another form of Krishna is proven by these verses, then from the same verses it is also proven:

 

Cheating is another form of Krishna (BG 10.36)

Airaavata is another form of Krishna (BG 10.27)

The letter A is another form of Krishna (10.33)

The ocean is another form of Krishna (BG 10.24)

The Maargashirsha month is another form of Krishna (BG 10.35)

Death is another form of Krishna (BG 10.34)

 

Ganeshprasad you are so intolerant. Why do you not Worship the letter A? Why do you not bow down before letter A and offer incense and camphor to it? Why do you not have a picture of letter a akshara on your mandir?

 

Oh, you say Shiva is same as Krishna based on Bhagavad-gItA 10th chapter. But then you say you worship Sarasvati. OK, so where does Krishna say He is same as Sarasvati?

 

I don't care who you worship, frankly. But you should admit that you don't care what the gItA says. Otherwise, why do you worship Sarasvati as Supreme God? Where is that stated in gItA? You only use gItA like a slogan to prop up the confusion you call religion.

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

 

In reply to:

 

 

 

Weather I am no one, without the knowledge of Sanskrit, it is not me who has chosen to argue, it is you hiding behind remaining faceless and nameless and therefore gutless, throwing baseless accusations.

 

 

 

Re

(translation: "how dare you disagree with me. you evil, fanatical, warmongering...." etc.)

 

Your imagination is running wild, it is you if I can remember correctly called just about everyone on this forum ignorant because we do not know Sanskrit.

 

Well I am waiting for you to tell me where have I called anyone on this forum evil or fanatical.

 

Re

(Ahem - taking verses out of context are we? Unfortunately for you, this question takes on a very different significance when it is not artificially divorced from the first half of the question. )

 

O really.

 

vaktum arhasyasheSheNa divyA hyAtmavibhUtayaH |

yAbhir vibhUtibhir lokAn imAMs tvaM vyApya tiShThasi || 10.16 ||

 

((I see you conveniently forgot to give me translation ))

 

Re

(As you can, Arjuna's question to Krishna regarding his various forms was just after asking Krishna to tell him of his vibhUtis by which he pervades these worlds. Hence, the "forms" He is referring to are His vibhUtis - His representation among various things in the manifest world.)

 

So who is giving new meaning to the above verse? Vibhutis means opulence or power when does it mean representation?

 

(Therefore), You alone are able to fully describe Your own divine glories, the manifestations, by which You exist pervading all the universe. (10.16)

How may I know You, O Lord, by constant contemplation? In what form (of manifestation) are You to be thought of by me, O Lord? (10.17)

O Lord, explain to me again in detail, Your yogic power and glory; because, I am not satiated by hearing Your nectar-like words. (10.18)

The Supreme Lord said: O Arjuna, now I shall explain to you My prominent divine manifestations, because My manifestations are endless. (10.19)

 

Notice the word my prominent divine manifestations are you saying his divine glory and power are separate from him? Have you ever heard of shakti and shaktiman are non different?

 

 

Re

(Saying that Krishna is equating Himself to the other devatas is asinine. Krishna was just declared to be superior even to the other devatas in 10.14. )

 

It is equally foolish to doubt Krishnas word.

 

Re

(Once again, proof positive that reading within context produces a different understanding than taking isolated shlokas completely out of context. Specifically:)

 

Sure, but when we are in denial we can never accept what Arjun has asked vibhuti or form or both, either way Krasna says I am Shankra is good enough reason for me to see Krishna in Shiva or Shiva in Krishna.

 

Re

(Honest approach to gItA --> leads to correct understanding

VHP/HSC/Ramakrishna approach to gItA ----> leads to contradictory and inconsistent misinterpretations)

 

No one has monopoly on honesty.

 

Re

 

(Precisely, you create philosophy around the religious culture you have already become accustomed to. This is why you are not objective, and why you conveniently rearrange the evidence to suit your needs.)

 

I am proud of my religious heritage, I have no ability to create philosophy, if I am not objective that is my bad karma, thank goodness you are not the judge or else you would falsely accuse me of calling you evil and god knows what else.

 

Re

(By the way, where in the chapter did Krishna say He is "maa Sarasvati?")

 

only by implication you asked me if would worship fine speech among women, well who can excel mata Sarasvati?

 

Re

(Having faith in something does not make it correct.)

 

I have faith in Krishna and Shiva no problem.

 

Re

(Having no knowledge in Sanskrit makes you dependent on those who do as far as understanding Bhagavad-gItA is concerned.)

 

We are all dependent in some thing or the other, I also have faith on the supreme lord who reside in all our hearts and gives us the necessary knowledge according to our desires.

 

 

Re

(Ok, so is it ok to worship Cheating? If Shiva being another form of Krishna is proven by these verses, then from the same verses it is also proven:

 

Cheating is another form of Krishna (BG 10.36)

Airaavata is another form of Krishna (BG 10.27)

The letter A is another form of Krishna (10.33)

The ocean is another form of Krishna (BG 10.24)

The Maargashirsha month is another form of Krishna (BG 10.35)

Death is another form of Krishna (BG 10.34)

 

and you doubt what Krishna is saying.

 

Re

 

(Ganeshprasad you are so intolerant. Why do you not Worship the letter A? Why do you not bow down before letter A and offer incense and camphor to it? Why do you not have a picture of letter a akshara on your mandir? )

Am I intolerant because I do not worship letter A? do you know without the letter “a” there is no speech, because a is present in all the alphabet. You are actually mocking Krishna for saying that he is the letter A.

 

 

Re

 

(Oh, you say Shiva is same as Krishna based on Bhagavad-gItA 10th chapter. But then you say you worship Sarasvati. OK, so where does Krishna say He is same as Sarasvati?)

 

I have already explained this.

 

Re

(I don't care who you worship, frankly. But you should admit that you don't care what the gItA says. Otherwise, why do you worship Sarasvati as Supreme God? Where is that stated in gItA? )

 

You are jumping to conclusion, if Krishna says I am fine speech among women only one person comes to mind and that is mata Sarasvati, and she is part of lords energy so it is not difficult to worship her.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

18.66

 

TRANSLATION

 

Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.

 

---

 

Krishna doesn't say abandon all varieities of religion and surrender to Lord Siva. }He never mentions in Gita that He is same as Lord Siva}..verse you are reffering to is this:

 

 

 

 

 

BG 10.22: Of the Vedas I am the Sama Veda; of the demigods I am Indra, the king of heaven; of the senses I am the mind; and in living beings I am the living force [consciousness].

 

BG 10.23: Of all the Rudras I am Lord Siva, of the Yakshas and Rakshasas I am the Lord of wealth [Kuvera], of the Vasus I am fire [Agni], and of mountains I am Meru.

 

BG 10.24: Of priests, O Arjuna, know Me to be the chief, Brihaspati. Of generals I am Kartikeya, and of bodies of water I am the ocean.

 

BG 10.25: Of the great sages I am Bhrigu; of vibrations I am the transcendental om. Of sacrifices I am the chanting of the holy names [japa], and of immovable things I am the Himalayas.

 

BG 10.26: Of all trees I am the banyan tree, and of the sages among the demigods I am Narada. Of the Gandharvas I am Citraratha, and among perfected beings I am the sage Kapila.

 

BG 10.27: Of horses know Me to be Uccaihsrava, produced during the churning of the ocean for nectar. Of lordly elephants I am Airavata, and among men I am the monarch.

 

BG 10.28: Of weapons I am the thunderbolt; among cows I am the surabhi. Of causes for procreation I am Kandarpa, the god of love, and of serpents I am Vasuki.

 

BG 10.29: Of the many-hooded Nagas I am Ananta, and among the aquatics I am the demigod Varuna. Of departed ancestors I am Aryama, and among the dispensers of law I am Yama, the lord of death.

 

BG 10.30: Among the Daitya demons I am the devoted Prahlada, among subduers I am time, among beasts I am the lion, and among birds I am Garuda.

 

BG 10.31: Of purifiers I am the wind, of the wielders of weapons I am Rama, of fishes I am the shark, and of flowing rivers I am the Ganges.

 

BG 10.32: Of all creations I am the beginning and the end and also the middle, O Arjuna. Of all sciences I am the spiritual science of the self, and among logicians I am the conclusive truth.

 

BG 10.33: Of letters I am the letter A, and among compound words I am the dual compound. I am also inexhaustible time, and of creators I am Brahma.

 

BG 10.34: I am all-devouring death, and I am the generating principle of all that is yet to be. Among women I am fame, fortune, fine speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience.

 

BG 10.35: Of the hymns in the Sama Veda I am the Brihat-sama, and of poetry I am the Gayatri. Of months I am Margasirsha [November-December], and of seasons I am flower-bearing spring.

 

BG 10.36: I am also the gambling of cheats, and of the splendid I am the splendor. I am victory, I am adventure, and I am the strength of the strong.

 

BG 10.37: Of the descendants of Vrishni I am Vasudeva, and of the Pandavas I am Arjuna. Of the sages I am Vyasa, and among great thinkers I am Usana.

 

BG 10.38: Among all means of suppressing lawlessness I am punishment, and of those who seek victory I am morality. Of secret things I am silence, and of the wise I am the wisdom.

 

BG 10.39: Furthermore, O Arjuna, I am the generating seed of all existences. There is no being -- moving or nonmoving -- that can exist without Me.

 

BG 10.40: O mighty conqueror of enemies, there is no end to My divine manifestations. What I have spoken to you is but a mere indication of My infinite opulences.

 

BG 10.41: Know that all opulent, beautiful and glorious creations spring from but a spark of My splendor.

 

BG 10.42: But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe.

 

 

 

---

 

Krishna also says:

 

 

Bg.9.4

By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them.

 

Notice this is before the 'Lord Siva verse'. Quoting is great Krishna clearly says He is also apart from this creation. You know in the next verse Krishna says this:

 

 

 

BG 9.5: And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. Behold My mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer of all living entities and although I am everywhere, I am not a part of this cosmic manifestation, for My Self is the very source of creation.

 

BG 9.6: Understand that as the mighty wind, blowing everywhere, rests always in the sky, all created beings rest in Me.

 

BG 9.7: O son of Kunti, at the end of the millennium all material manifestations enter into My nature, and at the beginning of another millennium, by My potency, I create them again.

 

BG 9.8: The whole cosmic order is under Me. Under My will it is automatically manifested again and again, and under My will it is annihilated at the end.

 

---

 

 

Thats the meaning basically, if you read unauthrized versions of Bhagavad-Gita this is what will happen. Ppls can twist words around to suit themsleves. Hare Krishna bro

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

18.66

TRANSLATION

Re

(Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all reactions. Do not fear.

 

---

 

Krishna doesn't say abandon all varieities of religion and surrender to Lord Siva. }He never mentions in Gita that He is same as Lord Siva}..verse you are reffering to is this

 

 

 

BG 10.22: Of the Vedas I am the Sama Veda; of the demigods I am Indra, the king of heaven; of the senses I am the mind; and in living beings I am the living force [consciousness].

 

Wonderful, now where have I misquoted verse 18.66?

 

10.22 is also very interesting, it is well known fact Lord Shiva is Mahadev or Maheshisvara, now if lord Siva were just a demigod as lot of you like to believe, then don’t you think Lord Krishna would have said of demigod I am lord Shiva. Krishna does not make mistake and he does say of Rudra I am Shankar.

Thanks bro.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

Lord Krishna said many more verses. A conversation cannot be had with mere couple of verses, although each verse of Gita being from Krishna is complete in itself. In India and elsewhere they read on Gita and Bhagavatam. Just from 1 verse they present to much infomation. Its baffling they can speak for hours on just 1 verse.

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

RE

(not sure where you are going with this..)

 

well i dont know about you but i am following in the footstep of my elders and my heart. like a child i am learning to walk sometimes run on the spritual path, road ahead is full of pit falls but i have a faith father/mother will pick me up.

 

i am glad you agree, each verse of gita being from Krishna is complete in itself.

 

Madhuradhi pati akhilam madhuram.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Its not easy to understand any verse.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

In February 1936, in Bombay, India, the members of a reputed religious society, the Gaudiya Matha, were astonished by the powerful and eloquent words of a young member who spoke in honor of his spiritual master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami. Three decades later, the young speaker would become the world-renowned founder and spiritual master of the Krsna consciousness movement. Srila Prabhupada's presentation is a memorable statement on the importance of the guru in spiritual life.

 

 

 

The plain truth so vividly explained in the Gita, which is the central lesson of the Vedas, is not understood or even suspected by the most powerful scholars of the empiric schools. Herein lies the secret of Sri Vyasa-puja. When we meditate on the transcendental pastimes of the Absolute Godhead, we are proud to feel that we are His eternal servitors, and we become jubilant and dance with joy. All glory to my divine master, for it is he who has out of his unceasing flow of mercy stirred up within us such a movement of eternal existence. Let us bow down at his lotus feet.

 

Gentlemen, had he not appeared before us to deliver us from the thralldom of this gross worldly delusion, surely we should have remained for lives and ages in the darkness of helpless captivity. Had he not appeared before us, we would not have been able to understand the eternal truth of the sublime teaching of Lord Caitanya. Had he not appeared before us, we could not have been able to know the significance of the first sloka of the Brahma-samhita:

 

isarah paramah krsnah

sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah

anadir adir govindah

sarva-karana-karanam

[bs. 5.1]

 

"Krsna, who is known as Govinda, is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal, blissful, spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin, and He is the prime cause of all causes."

 

Personally, I have no hope for any direct service for the coming crores of births of the sojourn of my life, but I am confident that some day or other I shall be delivered from this mire of delusion in which I am at present so deeply sunk. Therefore let me with all my earnestness pray at the lotus feet of my divine master to allow me to suffer the lot for which I am destined due to my past misdoings, but to let me have this power of recollection: that I am nothing but a tiny servant of the Almighty Absolute Godhead, realized through the unflinching mercy of my divine master. Let me therefore bow down at his lotus feet with all the humility at my command.

 

Extract taken: "The Science of Self Realization"

[Guest guest]

your post reminds me that vyasa puja is coming up soon...

 

i can't wait, such an auspicious day...

 

everyone please make an offering to Prabhupada or your Guru (if from a bona fide sampradaya) - or just make an offering to Vyasadeva...it is the least we can do for those great souls who reveal God to us undeserving, fallen souls...