There is no God without man.

[barney 0]

Some may think that I must be an ignorant moron, but let me tell you something about the war going one among some Hindus. The Vaishnvas claim Krishna is the Supreme God while the rest are demigods. Whereas the Shivaits claim Shiva is the Supreme Brahman and all others are his manifestation. Than there are those Sakhti worshippers who believe that Sakhti is the supreme being and it was she who created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.

 

Allow me to ask all of you a simple question. Without man would God exist? Who is to call God as God if there is no human on the face of earth? It was man who investigated, meditated and expounded that there is a supreme being above us and we must pay respect to him if we want to coexist with all other creatures and the nature in pece. And so, without man God would not exist. Be it Christianity, Islam or Hinduism. It is man who is mentioning th name of God and not any other creatures of this world. So, as long as man is around God wll exist and knowing this very well I am sure God would not mind if you call him by any name of your choice. You can call him Shiva, Krishna, Nayarana, Vishnu, Ganesha, Murugha, Krihna or any other name if you are a Hindu. Call him Allah and other 98 names he has if you are a Muslim and Yaweh or Jehova or even Jesus if you think it was his manifestation. But to refute that those who believe in other forms of God as non believers would amount to foolishness and being selfish. God is what we believe to be and that belief turns to faith and that faith would ignite the fire in our atman to energize our spritual soul which inturn would make one become a self realized human being. If any of you can understand what I mean than you would stop this war here and right now.

[Guest guest]

but let me tell you something about the war going one among some Hindus. The Vaishnvas claim Krishna is the Supreme God while the rest are demigods. Whereas the Shivaits claim Shiva is the Supreme Brahman and all others are his manifestation

...if these discussions are made with the right spirit there's no harm and everything ends with bliss for everyone

 

Allow me to ask all of you a simple question. Without man would God exist?

...god is not conditioned by anything, so his existence is not conditioned by other existences or not existences

 

Who is to call God as God if there is no human on the face of earth?

..i exist even if i am alone in a cave and no one calls me... so god would exist even if he had no followers

 

It was man who investigated, meditated and expounded that there is a supreme being above us and we must pay respect to him if we want to coexist with all other creatures and the nature in pece.

...of course to respect and love god we must be in peace with other creatures... where's the problem?

 

And so, without man God would not exist.

...this is not demonstrated by what you have said previously... if god were only a product of man's fantasy, god were a fantasy and not god

 

But to refute that those who believe in other forms of God as non believers would amount to foolishness and being selfish.

...of course... but why are you attempting to offend and blaspheme all of them together saying that god is only a product of their fantasy without giving any demonstration?

 

God is what we believe to be

...another blasphemy

 

If any of you can understand what I mean than you would stop this war here and right now.

...you have given a wrong way to make the peace.... you are saying to not quarrel because god really does not exist

 

many thanks

[maadhav 0]

this is like saying:

there is no my father without me.

(meaning i invented/created/imagined my father).

 

there is not any intelligence is saying so.

 

[Guest guest]

God created the universe, including man, so man could reveal Him/Her in the Word, through through the mind of man also created by God through evolution of the Universe from what ever its begining in the mind of God.

[Guest guest]

madhaav you are right...

 

but this is hinduism.... flowery words, apparently philosophic, vedic flavour, some sanskrit, atheist in essence

 

now the father exists because sons exist and not the opposite

 

very nice!!

[maadhav 0]

it does not sound you are happy with my post.

 

i see no truth in your line:

 

<< now the father exists because sons exist and not the opposite >>

 

if you are saying that becaue there are sons, meaning us, that proves there is father, then i agree.

 

what i said in my previous post is that the father alwasy exists. and it exists even without any son or creation.

he did exist before he created anything or any one.

 

in essence, a creator always exists before his creation.

 

but perhaps you still could have displeasure about my this post. if so have some yogurt with a pinch of sugar.

do not forget to serve it first.

 

 

[Guest guest]

"It was man who investigated, meditated and expounded that there is a supreme being above us and we must pay respect to him if we want to coexist with all other creatures and the nature in pece. And so, without man God would not exist. Be it Christianity, Islam or Hinduism. It is man who is mentioning th name of God and not any other creatures of this world. "

 

Did man really investigate and find out about god..or did god reveal himself to man?? Isn't it a bit presumptous to assume that we investigated and found out about god..rather than god let us find him, if god wanted he could have stayed hidden from us for ever.

[subroto 0]

Yes I thought bhagvan revealed himself to man and not the other way around.

[Guest guest]

madhaav.. i completely agree with you.. i have only seen what hinduism can be: meaningless words but given in a flowery language like who is attempting to demonstrate that the only reason of existence of god is that man think of him... ateo/hinduism

[barney 0]

1.Yes.

 

 

2. God's existence is conditioned. Reason is simple. Close all house of prayers irrespective of faith for a month. Do not utter the word God and see the result and you will know what I am talking about.

 

3. If I exist in a cave and no one knows than I am a dead person even though alive.

 

4. There problem lies before your eyes.

 

5. Whoelse would utter the name of God beside man?

 

6. The reason lies before your eyes.

 

7. Is it so? Think again do not just question.

 

8. Think again. Is that your interpretation to my statement?

[Guest guest]

3. If I exist in a cave and no one knows than I am a dead person even though alive.

...the fact that no one knows your life it does not means that you are dead... i know your existence from a couple of months but you were very well alive before. Now i know you, you gave some details of your life, i understand that you are existing

 

the same with god, some messenger, saint, avatara gives to me some information and i understand a reality beyond my perception.. simple

 

god and "creatures" are existing simultaneously.. everyone is eternal

 

the difference is that god is ever conscious, the creatures not necessarily

[barney 0]

1. How could you know if I have not discovered you? It is man who affirms the existence of God and no other creatures beside him. So, tat is why I say no man no God. Can't you understand this simple logic?

 

2. So, here you agree that some messanger or saint declares that there is God and so everybody believed him? I rest my case here.

 

3. Here again who is affirming the existence of God?

 

4. This is were you are wrong. How would you know creatures are not aware? Is it because they do not speak your language or that they do not think like you? Do not think only man is intelligent, the creatures beside man have their own intelligent, sometime superior to man. You need to learn more by experiencing nt just reading and memorizing. Books and Gurus alone cannot give you the knowledge you need in life but life's experience is more important. Live your life by learning others living and explore the inner mind of thy self, only than you wil get the wisdom of knowing the real truth.

[Guest guest]

1. How could you know if I have not discovered you?

 

my consciousness and your existence are separated realities, they can never cross themselves and at the same time be valid and existent

 

-

So, tat is why I say no man no God. Can't you understand this simple logic?

 

i can understand that it is world jugglery and that your purpose is to affirm that god comes from man's mind. I never knew you, when i did you were not born in that moment. Knowing that you had done something before demosntrates that you were existing before independently from my consciousness of yourself and that your existence is independent from my consciousness. The same with god or whatever else

-

 

2. So, here you agree that some messanger or saint declares that there is God and so everybody believed him?

 

our life is made esentially by informations received from other persons that we elaborate in our own way.. plus our direct experiences.. then it is our duty to see if these informations are true, At that point these truths are "our truths" not only things that only others have experienced.

 

-

 

3. Here again who is affirming the existence of God?

 

who have seen him or who with simple reasoning can demonstrate that His existence is necessary and unavoidable... that is another scientific way of acquiring culture

 

-

 

How would you know creatures are not aware? Is it because they do not speak your language or that they do not think like you?

 

in creatures i was putting also humans... the essential difference between god and his emanation/creation is that the emenation/creation can be subjectd to be unconscious and god not

 

-

 

Do not think only man is intelligent, the creatures beside man have their own intelligent, sometime superior to man

 

in the context where we were speaking it is clear and obvious that i were not speaking of animals and plants..

 

-

 

Books and Gurus alone cannot give you the knowledge you need in life but life's experience is more important

 

absolutely it is not my intention to say that theory is enough to gain knowledge, i am for theory + practice.... why are you saying that i care only for theory? do not be so theoric, get informations from me if you want to know me... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

-

 

Live your life by learning others living and explore the inner mind of thy self, only than you wil get the wisdom of knowing the real truth.

 

plus getting information from other people and documents that i consider competent......... where's the mistake?

 

-

[maadhav 0]

<< i have only seen what hinduism can be: meaningless words but given in a flowery language >>

 

i am a hindu and you completely ageed to me.

 

now, your above line indicates you hate hinduism.

i do not.

 

if you know hinduism as i know it,

then perhaps your opinion would change and you would love hinduism. but if you already have decided that hinduism is not good for you, then fine. join a forum of your choice and enjoy there. it would not be fun here for you.

 

could you agree?

 

[Guest guest]

i have not even the duty to consider agreeing or not agreeing with you... you are a guest like me not some authority

 

if you read better (the verb is "can be" not "is") you'll understand that there's no hate

 

choose elsewhere your enemies

 

[maadhav 0]

so then we are not enemies.

good.

 

so what you suggest we do as hindus together please?

 

[barney 0]

Look at the hundred of babies born in hospitals and left in the nusery close to each other. Christian, Hindu, Muslims, Buddhist and sometime Jewish too are all in the same room not knowing that their parents are of diffrent denomination and there is a war going on between all of them. These babies do not fight among themselves but sleep quietly or stay awake gazing at the ceiling. Reason is these new born babies are unpoluted by their parents. It is when they are growing up that they are being thought that one is different from the other and poison words are computed into their minds and when they grow up become another Osama Bin Laden, Hitler, General Dyer and many others who would like to see other suffer cruel death.

 

It is the state of tamas that brings out such devils in men otherwise this world would be a paradise for all.

[Guest guest]

 

Some may think that I must be an ignorant moron, but let me tell you something about the war going one among some Hindus. The Vaishnvas claim Krishna is the Supreme God while the rest are demigods. Whereas the Shivaits claim Shiva is the Supreme Brahman and all others are his manifestation. Than there are those Sakhti worshippers who believe that Sakhti is the supreme being and it was she who created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.

 

 

Dear Barney,

 

1) You are an ignorant moron.

 

2) Vishnu being the Supreme Deity, superior even to the devatas, is stated in the veda-s, upaniSad-s, and purANa-s.

 

3) Shiva being the Supreme Deity is not supported by shruti.

 

4) Believing in something does not make it true, even if many millions of people share that belief. Truth is truth, it does not change because of popular vote.

 

5) None of your questions make any sense; they are the typical non-sequiturs of most Sai Baba followers who like to appear more intelligent than they actually are. Please again see #1.

[maadhav 0]

yes, but one ideology can be not compatibel with another.

e.g. hinduism and islam: north and south poles.

 

keeping the whole population ignorant of what these ideologies are and what the eal history if each ideology is

cannot help. know the truth as it is, and then choose action to sole the problems.

 

in principle hinduism says that at birth one is just an animal. by undergoing thru some samskras he becomes man (arya). other hindu/vedic processes teach man how to live sin-free, and ultimately realize god.

 

in contrast, islam is imposed on the childen born in muslim families. then the penalty imposed for quitting islam is death. each muslim must do jihad against all the non muslims.

and the hindus never preach to uninterested.

 

the world need to know these ideology differences

to figure what is good or not good.

 

[barney 0]

1. Learned Guest, please tell me in which of the four Vedas is Krishna mentioned?

 

2. Not only Vishnu but Shiva and Brahma too.

 

3. Shruti [shruti ("what is heard") is complied into Vedas. The Vedas are the back bone of Shruti. So, answer my first question than we will talk about shruti later.

 

4. It is what is wittnesed by millions today not like shruti some thousands of years where none has seen nor heard directly. What wa written some few thousand years could have gone through some rough translation or interpretation. Changes here and ther is possible and morever not all of the shruti was avaiable than as some were lost due to time. So, what makes you sure that there were no changes later on? Can you be sure without having the missing shrutis what we possess now everything is in order? Think rationaly and calling one a moron does not make another intelligent. It is what one make

 

5. Let us see who is intelligent and who is not. In days of yore, the thoughts of the seers or their compositions were handed over orally from teachers to their disciples. The original composers, the compilers, the repeaters or lastly the writers of the Upanishads might not have taken care to arrange them in an orderly manner. In some places the text might have been corrupted by later compilers, copyists or printers.

 

Here is a lesson for you, A little bird was flying south for the winter. It was so cold the bird froze and fell to the ground in a large field. While it was lying there, a

cow came by and dropped some dung on it. As the frozen bird lay there in the pile of cow dung, it began to realize how warm it was. The dung was actually thawing him out! He lay there all warm and happy, and soon began to sing for joy. A passing cat heard the bird singing and came to investigate.

Following the sound, the cat discovered the bird under the pile of cow dung, and promptly dug him out and ate him.

 

1) Not everyone who shits on you is your enemy.

2) Not everyone who gets you out of . is your friend.

3) And when you're in deep ., it's best to keep your mouth shut.