Guru

[Guest guest]

A member here advised me to read chapter 6 of the B. Gita; which I am doing now. It is mentioned that one needs to be Krsna conscious. This stage cannot be achieved without the help of someone who is Krsna conscious.

 

How does one know a someone is pure and Krsna conscious and is possibly able to guide us to Krsna consciousness ?

 

How does one ask someone for such guidance ?

 

Thank you.

[Guest guest]

we have only to pray... the guru will find us when we will be ready

[Guest guest]

when the disciple is ready, the guru appears. Wonderful.

 

[Guest guest]

:-)

[maadhav]

to wait for a guru to come is a passive way.

 

i suggest you visit tempels and listen some preachers.

thus develop hunger for spiritual knowledge and yoga process. then thru contacts yu make there

will find a guru.

 

now, every one does not need a top class guru

just as every one does no need a mathematics professor to learn math. ne can be your guru who is a bit more advanced than you and you can learn from him/her.

then after find another a bit more advanced.

 

thus you progress.

one can learn from gurus, sadhus, and sastras.

read life storires of vaishnava sadhus and saints.

 

wishing you success/progress.

 

[barney]

Guru Brarhmaa Gurur Vishhnuh Gururdevo Maheshvarah .

Guruh Saakshaat Parabrahma Tasmai Shrii Guravenamah ..

 

[i prostrate to that Shree Guru, who is himself Brahma, Vishnu, and God Maheshwara, and who is verily the Supreme Absolute itself].

 

[Guest guest]

to wait for a guru to come is a passive way.

--it is not a passive way.. one have to pray krsna, guru has to be uttama adhikari, pure devotee, we cannot recognize him without the help of sri krsna. Of course desire is expressed in practice. And practice means also going to the temple, meeting devotees, hearing philosophy classes and so on. But the fact is that we are choosen by the guru, not the opposite

 

now, every one does not need a top class guru

--to go in the spiritual world is a top class goal, so there's the need of a top class guru. What's the need of taking a guru who is himself conditioned by maya?

 

your guru who is a bit more advanced than you and you can learn from him/her.

--this is very nice.. but this is not a guru, this i s friend, a brother, not a master, teacher.

 

one can learn from gurus, sadhus, and sastras.

--yes.. top class guru, top class sadhus, top class sastras.... one has to intensely pray krsna to have the best

[Guest guest]

ths translation is not right... guru is representative of god, not god

[maadhav]

<< But the fact is that we are choosen by the guru, not the opposite >>

 

it is mutual. you propose, he may or nmay not accept.

a missionary like prabhupada needs a lot of disciples.

so he seeks, and accepts when he has hope of making the learn.

 

<< now, every one does not need a top class guru

--to go in the spiritual world is a top class goal, so there's the need of a top class guru. What's the need of taking a guru who is himself conditioned by maya? >>

 

a top class guru cannot handle a million or sodisciples himself. so he has heirarchy under him. e.g. he may have 10 or 100 highly advanced disciples. under these disciples, each will have a number of disciples whe definitely are less advanced that the gurus, and this goes on till a low level guru, who is not a top class guru but enough advanced to get a hippie in KC movement.

 

<< one can learn from gurus, sadhus, and sastras.

--yes.. top class guru, top class sadhus, top class sastras.... one has to intensely pray krsna to have the best >>

 

but one need guru to make one pray krishna.

 

you do not need a math professor ro learn 3rd grand arithmatic. but the 3rd grade teache is still a guru/teacher, he may be eating meat, but he can teach math.

once you learn it, from him, go to next advanced guru. he will not mind it. he knows you are not his slave.

 

here, i have not initiated any one,

but some do learn from me to, and i from others.

 

a teacher of spiritual science/life is a guru.

 

still, there is some risk in choosing a guru.

it depends upon how smart you are in choosing.

sadhus and shastras help in choosing.

if you find the guru is not right, part.

so easy.

 

 

[Guest guest]

<< But the fact is that we are choosen by the guru, not the opposite >>

it is mutual. you propose, he may or nmay not accept.

--that's right, but in aspiritual sense the disciple knows that it was the mercy of guru and krsna to save him, not his direct effort

 

a top class guru cannot handle a million or sodisciples himself.

--you have taken this word in a materialist way... top class guru has nothing to do with the number of disciples.. top class guru is one who is pure uttama adhikari, and a guru like this is needed to go back to godhead, not a conditioned soul

 

so he has heirarchy under him. e.g. he may have 10 or 100 highly advanced disciples. under these disciples, each will have a number of disciples whe definitely are less advanced that the gurus, and this goes on till a low level guru, who is not a top class guru but enough advanced to get a hippie in KC movement.

---1)a disciple does not takes disciples when the guru is alive.... 2)when the disciple becames guru he has to be uttama adhikari, perfect like his master or he's not a guru......... 3)hippye or brahmin if the guru is not of the "top class" he will not be able to bring the soul back to godhead, if one has not krishna, he cannot give krishna

 

you do not need a math professor ro learn 3rd grand arithmatic.

--it seems taht you have taken guru as some sort of material teacher, culture professor and so on.... guru is a transcendental, spiritual role, he gives krishna, not some notions or culture.. so if you want to be connected with god, you definitely need a top class guru even if he will teach you only "chant hare krishna.."

As the opposite you will not have any benefit from a teacher who explains to you all the vedas not being a realized soul

 

once you learn it, from him, go to next advanced guru

---less advanced or more advanced is not a definition for a guru... guru is ADVANCED otrherwise he's not a guru

 

here, i have not initiated any one,

--so why are you continously giving advices on religious matters? you never learned and you want to teach?

 

but some do learn from me to, and i from others.

--this is not guru-disciple relationship... this is friendly exchange, it is good and necessary, but in itself it does not bring practitioneers back to godhead, A pure master is needed

 

a teacher of spiritual science/life is a guru.

--as i have said, not in the exact sense, and a guru has to be from a parampara, spiritual dinasty... if he's not a perfect disciple he cannot teach how to be a disciple (achara)

 

still, there is some risk in choosing a guru.

--of course... if you find a bogus instead of a sadhu it could be letal for spiritual life... but it is a risk to be (with tons of care) taken, otherwise there's no real spiritual advancement

 

it depends upon how smart you are in choosing.

--no,, it depends from krsna's mercy and our desire.... being pupils we cannot have the skills to choose a teacher, otherwise we were teachers. Of course reading scriptures it is possible to avoid gross mistakes, but it is not enough

 

sadhus and shastras help in choosing.

--essential help

 

so easy.

--it is clear that you are acting as a leader in this forum and you like it, i suggest you to pray krsna to send you a pure vaishnava guru to impart to you transcendental knowledge that you will give to others in this forum and anywhere. religion is connection with god, if you are not connected through parampara discipleship you aren't connected with god and you cannot say anything of him.

remember, it is not simply culture, it is transcendence

 

 

<< But the fact is that we are choosen by the guru, not the opposite >>

it is mutual. you propose, he may or nmay not accept.

--that's right, but in aspiritual sense the disciple knows that it was the mercy of guru and krsna to save him, not his direct effort

 

a top class guru cannot handle a million or sodisciples himself.

--you have taken this word in a materialist way... top class guru has nothing to do with the number of disciples.. top class guru is one who is pure uttama adhikari, and a guru like this is needed to go back to godhead, not a conditioned soul

 

so he has heirarchy under him. e.g. he may have 10 or 100 highly advanced disciples. under these disciples, each will have a number of disciples whe definitely are less advanced that the gurus, and this goes on till a low level guru, who is not a top class guru but enough advanced to get a hippie in KC movement.

---1)a disciple does not takes disciples when the guru is alive.... 2)when the disciple becames guru he has to be uttama adhikari, perfect like his master or he's not a guru......... 3)hippye or brahmin if the guru is not of the "top class" he will not be able to bring the soul back to godhead, if one has not krishna, he cannot give krishna

 

you do not need a math professor ro learn 3rd grand arithmatic.

--it seems taht you have taken guru as some sort of material teacher, culture professor and so on.... guru is a transcendental, spiritual role, he gives krishna, not some notions or culture.. so if you want to be connected with god, you definitely need a top class guru even if he will teach you only "chant hare krishna.."

As the opposite you will not have any benefit from a teacher who explains to you all the vedas not being a realized soul

 

once you learn it, from him, go to next advanced guru

---less advanced or more advanced is not a definition for a guru... guru is ADVANCED otrherwise he's not a guru

 

here, i have not initiated any one,

--so why are you continously giving advices on religious matters? you never learned and you want to teach?

 

but some do learn from me to, and i from others.

--this is not guru-disciple relationship... this is friendly exchange, it is good and necessary, but in itself it does not bring practitioneers back to godhead, A pure master is needed

 

a teacher of spiritual science/life is a guru.

--as i have said, not in the exact sense, and a guru has to be from a parampara, spiritual dinasty... if he's not a perfect disciple he cannot teach how to be a disciple (achara)

 

still, there is some risk in choosing a guru.

--of course... if you find a bogus instead of a sadhu it could be letal for spiritual life... but it is a risk to be (with tons of care) taken, otherwise there's no real spiritual advancement

 

it depends upon how smart you are in choosing.

--no,, it depends from krsna's mercy and our desire.... being pupils we cannot have the skills to choose a teacher, otherwise we were teachers. Of course reading scriptures it is possible to avoid gross mistakes, but it is not enough

 

sadhus and shastras help in choosing.

--essential help

 

so easy.

--it is clear that you are acting as a leader in this forum and you like it, i suggest you to pray krsna to send you a pure vaishnava guru to impart to you transcendental knowledge that you will give to others in this forum and anywhere. religion is connection with god, if you are not connected through parampara discipleship you aren't connected with god and you cannot say anything of him.

remember, it is not simply culture, it is transcendence

 

tad viddhi pranipatena

pariprasnena sevaya

upadeksyanti te jnanam

jnaninas tatt va-darsinah

tat--that knowledge of different sacrifices; viddhi--try to understand;

pranipatena--by approaching a spiritual master; pariprasnena--by

submissive inquiries; sevaya--by the rendering of service;

upadeksyanti--they will initiate; te--you; jnanam--into knowledge;

jnaninah--the self-realized; tattva--of the truth; darsinah--seers.

TRANSLATION

 

Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master.

Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The

self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have

seen the truth.

[barney]

I am the conscience in the heart of all creatures

I am their beginning, their being, their end;

I am the mind of the senses,

I am the radiant sun among lights;

I am the song in sacred lore;

I am the king of deities;

I am the priest of great seers;

Of words, I am the eternal OM,

the prayer of sacrifices

I am the measure of what endures

I am the chief of divine sages,

leader of celestial musicians.

I am the recluse philosopher among saints.

I am the thunderbolt among weapons

among cattle, the Kamadhenu

I am the procreative god of love

I am the endless cosmic serpent,

the lord of all sea creatures;

I am the chief of the ancestral fathers.

I am gracious Siva among howling storms.

Of restraints, I am death,

Of measures, I am time.

I am the purifying wind.

I am the cleansing Ganga

Of sciences, I am the science of the self;

I am the dispute of orators.

I am victory and resolve,

the lucidity of lucid men.

I am the brilliance of fiery heroes.

I am the morality of ambitious men;

I am the silence of the mystery

I am the seed of all creatures

I am the death destroyer of all.

 

-- Shrimad Bhagavad Gita

 

[Guest guest]

thanks to have brought these nice definitions of sri krsna bhagavan from the gita

........

 

yes... sri krsna is supreme personality of god and guru

(god is everything and he obviously can be also guru)

 

but many gurus are representatives of god and not themselves god

 

this does not authorize disciples of not giving the same respect as they were god

 

very simple

[Guest guest]

Hence, I come to the conclusion that the first post summarizes all said: we need to pray for the help of a Guru to come and for him/her(?) to decide to be a medium and guidance towards God.

 

By reading comments on the Baghavad Gita, I learnt that it is not through intellectualisation and through reading all the books that one reaches pure consciousness, but through praying, remembering Krsna and being in Krsna all the time, and through good acts. So should I read the holy books/scriptures or should I experience through willingness and submission to Lord Krsna ?

[barney]

It can be Krishan, Shiva, Sakthi, Ganapathy or Murugan. It does not matter what nama but pue bakthi must be there in order to receive his grace. Do be like the Christians or Muslims who say only utter he name of Jesus/Allah. Hinduism is unique and gives the freedom to accept any form of the Supreme. Hindus are not barred from entering any temples be it Krishna, Vengatachalabathi or Shiva, Aghilandeshwari or Murugan, Ganapathy or Perumal. They are God in different manifestation. Some Hindus would like to segregate themselves from the mainstream which would only divide furher the unity of Hndus.

[Guest guest]

By reading comments on the Baghavad Gita, I learnt that it is not through intellectualisation and through reading all the books that one reaches pure consciousness, but through praying, remembering Krsna and being in Krsna all the time, and through good acts. So should I read the holy books/scriptures or should I experience through willingness and submission to Lord Krsna ?

--reading scriptures and taking instructions by them is in itself a great sign of submission to sri krishna... the problem is not intellectualization, the problem is gratificating ourselves with mental speculation and not surrendering. The mind is not to put aside, the mind is to be spiritualized accepting a pure uttama adhikari spiritual master, chanting/remembering krishna, and doing our karma in this spirit

 

gradually our karma turns in yoga

[Guest guest]

 

It can be Krishan, Shiva, Sakthi, Ganapathy or Murugan. It does not matter what nama but pue bakthi must be there in order to receive his grace.

--false... every name is a different person and a different destination. Krsna does not cheat us, if we want krsna .. krsna comes. Bhakti means love, if i love my wife it does not mean that i love also your one

 

Hindus are not barred from entering any temples be it Krishna, Vengatachalabathi or Shiva, Aghilandeshwari or Murugan, Ganapathy or Perumal. They are God in different manifestation

--not exact, some of these forms you have said are god, some other are not god, some one is the supreme personality of god

 

Some Hindus would like to segregate themselves from the mainstream

--your mainstream simply seems that you do not want that people go deep in spirituality but remain superficial thinking that everything's the same

 

which would only divide furher the unity of Hndus.

--so what do you want to do with this union if you will get it? and union on wich basis? simply to adopt a meaningless name?

 

[Guest guest]

Hindus are not barred from entering any temples be it Krishna, Vengatachalabathi or Shiva, Aghilandeshwari or Murugan, Ganapathy or Perumal. They are God in different manifestation

--not exact, some of these forms you have said are god, some other are not god, some one is the supreme personality of god

 

* yyy can you tell me which one is not god and which is god from the above, what gives you the wisdom to say so ?

[barney]

<false... every name is a different person and a different destination. Krsna does not cheat us, if we want krsna .. krsna comes. Bhakti means love, if i love my wife it does not mean that i love also your one>

 

You are ignorant of the TRUTH. Path to God is many and experience and proves are many. The path by Adthi Shankara was different but the ultimate goal is one. The path taken my Swami Ramakrishna was different from Adthi Shankara but the ultimate goal is one. The path Buddha took was different but the goal was the same. Bakthi is love and you can show it not only by loving Krishna but by any other means. Love for your fellow human, service to mankind and caring for the needy is all love which in turn will ultimately goes to the Lord. You are confused because you are travelin in one track which is dangerous. Islam is one track and see how much problems it creates not only to its followers but to the whole world. Your love for your wife would be different from lovinbg my wife until and unless you have ulterior motive coz my love for your wife would be love for another being.

 

<not exact, some of these forms you have said are god, some other are not god, some one is the supreme personality of god>

 

Please define who is and who is not. As I have said ignorance can blind a person of reasoning. All forms of God came from one source and that is Brahman or the Supreme Power which the wise one call it SAKTHI. And sakthi has another meaning which is SHE. You need to dwell more on it before you make any conclution.

 

<our mainstream simply seems that you do not want that people go deep in spirituality but remain superficial thinking that everything's the same>

 

What is superficial thinking and what is sprituality? Do you mean that going to the temples I have mentioned is suoperficial? Please tell that to the millions who congregate at these temple day in and day out. Do you insist that these people close the temples? What is your basis? Do not say what you do not understand.

 

<so what do you want to do with this union if you will get it? and union on wich basis? simply to adopt a meaningless name?>

 

Do you know the base on what Hinduism has existed for thousands of years? Untity and understanding among the worshipers of these Godheads. I think you are asking for the clash of the Titans among the followers of Krishna, Vishnu, Shiva and Murugan. You have a disturbed mind that needs help. Please seek the help of a divine Guru.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

yyy can you tell me which one is not god and which is god from the above, what gives you the wisdom to say so ?

 

there's no need to impose my idea on you, the only thing is that it is different.. krsna is krsna, siva is siva, ganesh is ganesh

 

if everything is the same why give different names?

[Guest guest]

You are ignorant of the TRUTH

--you are saying that everything is truth, so even my ignorance is truth. So with this only sentence you are demonstrating that you do not know even the truth you are making propaganda

 

Path to God is many and experience and proves are many.

--some authentic, some partially authentic, some useless, some opposite

 

The path by Adthi Shankara was different but the ultimate goal is one

--very different from the ultimate goal of many

 

Bakthi is love and you can show it not only by loving Krishna but by any other means.other schools

--yes the love that i have for my wife is exactly of the same kind that you have for yours.... it is like to say that i love your wife and you mine?

 

You are confused because you are travelin in one track which is dangerous.

---everyone has his track, your one is the track of "there's no track"............. so everything is in danger, please say it to me when you will see me in danger, otherwise what's the use? you also are in great danger

 

All forms of God came from one source and that is Brahman or the Supreme Power

---krsna in the gita says that he's the source of supreme brahman... not the opposite... if i read a text i trust or i refuse, i do not try to bend it to my own idea

 

What is superficial thinking and what is sprituality?

---superficial thinking is to concoct some sort of spirituality where everything is the same to not make any effort to go deeper, and making the idea of god so vague and undefined to kil him... so he will not give instruction and we are free to do anything and feel ourselves god.... this is superficiality

spirituality is : "

sarva-dharman parityajya

mam ekam saranam vraja

aham tvam sarva-papebhyo

moksayisyami ma sucah

 

SYNONYMS

sarva-dharman--all varieties of religion; parityajya--abandoning; mam--unto Me; ekam--only; saranam--surrender; vraja--go; aham--I; tvam--you; sarva--all; papebhyah--from sinful reactions; moksayisyami--deliver; ma--not; sucah--worry.

 

TRANSLATION

Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.

-

-

-

 

Do you mean that going to the temples I have mentioned is suoperficial? Please tell that to the millions who congregate at these temple day in and day out. Do you insist that these people close the temples?

---why do you want to close? who want to close? go deeper and you will discover why they are going in the temple

 

Do you know the base on what Hinduism has existed for thousands of years?

---hinduism does not exist... many schools with different and often opposite opinions exist and there's no serious reason (if not superficiality or politic) to unite them under the same flag

 

Untity and understanding among the worshipers of these Godheads.

---where? opposite ideas...!!

 

You have a disturbed mind that needs help

--so help me giving good answers and not insulting (i do not insult you)

 

Please seek the help of a divine Guru.

--done

 

 

[barney]

Many are the gurus who are proficient to the utmost in Vedas and Shastras; but rare is the guru who has attained to the supreme Truth.

 

Many are the gurus on earth who give what is other than the Self; but rare is the guru who brings to light the Atman.

 

Many are the gurus who rob the disciple of his wealth; but rare is the guru who removes the disciple's afflictions.

 

Many are they who are given to the discipline and conduct according to caste, stage, and family; but he who is devoid of all volition is a guru rare to find.

 

He is the guru by whose very contact there flows the supreme bliss; the intelligent man shall choose such a one as the guru and no other.

 

 

22. Hinduism. Kularnava Tantra 13

 

[Guest guest]

Many are the gurus who are proficient to the utmost in Vedas and Shastras; but rare is the guru who has attained to the supreme Truth.

 

 

only this guru is to be called guru, the othes are cheaters