EMANCIPATION

[barney 0]

EMANCIPATION

From The Mahabharata

Aswamedha Parva, Section XVII

Translated by Sri Kisari Mohan Ganguli

 

Vasudeva said: Touching the feet of that sage (Brahmana), Kasyapa asked him some questions that were exceedingly difficult to answer. That foremost of all righteous persons then discoursed on those duties that were referred to.

 

Kasyapa said:

 

How does one become emancipated after passing through a repeated round of painful births?

 

How does Jiva (embodied soul), freed from the body, attain to what is different from it (viz., Brahman or Supreme Reality)?

 

Where do the acts exist of one that is devoid of body?

 

Urged by Kasyapa, the emancipated sage answered those questions one after another.

 

The Brahmana said:

Whatever acts, good or bad, Jiva does in a former body, have certainly to be enjoyed or endured by him. By such enjoyment and endurance former acts are exhausted, and other acts, again, accumulate, till Jiva has succeeded in acquiring a knowledge of the duties included in that contemplation which leads to Emancipation. Regarding this, I shall tell thee those acts by which Jiva, while coursing through a repeated round of re-births, becomes happy.

 

Gifts, observances of austerity, Brahmacharya (celibacy), bearing Brahman according to the ordinances laid down, self-restraint, tranquillity, compassion for all creatures, restraint of passions, abstentions from cruelty as from appropriating what belongs to others, refraining from doing even mentally all acts that are false and injurious to living creatures on earth, reverently serving mother and father, honouring deities and guests, worship of preceptors, pity, purity, constant restraint of all organs, and causing of all good acts, are said to constitute the conduct of the good.

 

From observance of such conduct arises Righteousness which protects all creatures eternally. Such conduct, one would always behold among persons that are good. Verily, such conduct resides there eternally. That course of practices to which persons of tranquil souls adhere indicates Righteousness. Among them is thrown that course of practices which constitutes eternal Righteousness. He who would betake himself to that righteousness would never have to attain to a miserable end. It is by the conduct of the good that the world is restrained in the paths of Righteousness when it falls away. He that is a Yogi is Emancipated, and is therefore, distinguished above these (viz., the good).

 

Deliverance from the world takes place, after a long time, of one who acts righteously and well in every occasion as he should. A living creature thus always meets with the acts done by him in a former life. All these acts constitute the cause in consequence of which he comes into this world in a state different from his true form.

 

There is a doubt in the world as regards the question: ‘By what was the acceptance by Jiva of a body first determined’? The Grandsire of all the worlds, viz., Brahma having first formed a body of his own, then created the three worlds, in their entirety, of mobile and immobile creatures. Having first himself assumed a body, he then created Pradhana. That Pradhana is the material cause of all embodied creatures, by whom is all this covered and whom all came to know as the highest. This that is seen is said to be destructible; while the other is immortal and indestructible. This that (is seen) is said to be Kshara (the destructible); that, however, which is Para (the other) is the Immortal, (as also) Akshra (the indestructible).

 

Of each Purusha taken distributively, the whole is duality among these three. Seen first (to appear in an embodied form) Prajapati (then) created all the primal elements and all immobile creatures. Even this is the ancient audition. Of that (acceptance of body), the Grandsire ordained a limit in respect of time, and migrations among diverse creatures and return or rebirth. All that I say is proper and correct, like to what a person who is endued with intelligence and who has seen his soul, would say on this topic of previous births.

 

That person who looks upon pleasure and pain as inconstant, which, indeed, is the correct view, who regards the body as an unholy conglomeration, and destruction as ordained in action, and who remembers that what little of pleasure there is, is really all pain, will succeed in crossing this terrible ocean of worldly migration that is so difficult to cross. Though assailed by decrepitude and death and disease, he that understands Pradhana beholds with an equal eye that Consciousness which dwells in all beings endued with consciousness. Seeking the supreme seat, he then becomes utterly indifferent to all other things. O best of men, I shall now impart instruction to thee, agreeably to truth, concerning this. Do thou, O learned Brahmana, understand in completeness that which constitutes the excellent knowledge, as I declare it, of that indestructible seat.

 

The Brahmana said: He who become absorbed in the one receptacle (of all things), freeing himself from even the thought of his own identity with all things, - indeed, ceasing to think of even his own existence, - gradually casting off one after another, will succeed in crossing his bonds.

 

[Note: Without even retaining the consciousness of his own identity with everything. Not even thinking that he is existing. The Sanskrit wordings ‘purvam purvam parityajya’ implies the gradual merging of the grosser in the subtler, i.e., the successive stages of Yoga before absorption into Brahman.]

 

That man who is the friend of all, who endures all, who is attached to tranquillity, who has conquered all his senses, who is divested of fear and wrath, and who is of restrained soul, succeeds in emancipating himself. He who behaves towards all creatures as towards himself, who is restrained, pure, free from vanity and divested of egoism is regarded as emancipated from everything.

 

He also is emancipated who looks with an equal eye upon life and death. Pleasure and pain, gain and loss, agreeable and disagreeable. He is in every way emancipated who does not covet what belongs to others, who never disregards any body, who transcends all pairs of opposites, and whose soul is free from attachment. He is emancipated who has no enemy, no kinsman and no child, who has cast off religion, wealth and pleasure (Dharma, Artha, Kama), and who is freed from desire or cupidity.

 

He becomes emancipated who acquires neither merit nor demerit, who casts off the merits and demerits accumulated in previous births, who wastes the elements of his body for attaining to a tranquillised soul, and who transcends all pairs of opposites. He who abstains from all acts, who is free from desire or cupidity, who looks upon the universe as unenduring or as like an Aswattha tree, ever endued with birth, death and decrepitude, whose understanding is fixed on renunciation, and whose eyes are always directed towards his own faults, soon succeeds in emancipating himself from the bonds that bind him.

 

He that sees his soul void of smell, of taste and touch, of sounds, of belongings, of vision, and unknowable, becomes emancipated.

 

[Note: The Soul being destitute of these Chinmatra, i.e., a pure Chit without the attributes superinduced upon it by Nescience or ignorance.]

 

He who sees his soul devoid of the attributes of the five elements to be without form and cause, to be really destitute of attributes though enjoying them, becomes emancipated.

 

[Note: Formlessness implies subtlety. ‘Without cause’ implies increate or as identical with eternal Brahman. Dissociation from attributes while enjoying them implies an emancipate condition,]

 

Abandoning with the aid of understanding, all purposes relating to body and mind, one gradually attains to cessation of separate existence, like a fire unfed with fuel.

 

[Note: The Sanskrit word Nirvana, according to orthodox commentators, implies the annihilation or cessation of separate or individual existence by absorption into universal and external Brahman.]

 

One who is freed from all impressions, who transcends all pairs of opposites, who is destitute of all belongings, and who uses all his senses under the guidance of penances, becomes emancipated.

 

[Note: The impressions caused by objects outside self are destroyed by those belonging to contemplation. The latter, again, should be destroyed before absorption into Brahman can occur.]

 

Having become freed from all impressions, one then attains to Brahman which is eternal and supreme, and tranquil, and stable, and enduring, and indestructible.

 

After this I shall declare the science of Yoga to which there is nothing superior, or how Yogis, by concentration, behold the perfect soul. I shall declare the instructions regarding it duly. Do thou learn from me, those doors by which directing the soul within the body one beholds that which is without beginning and end.

 

Withdrawing the senses from their objects, one should fix the mind upon the soul; having previously undergone the severest austerities, one should practice that concentration of mind that leads to Emancipation.

 

[Note: ‘Fixing the mind upon the soul’ is that concentration which leads to Emancipation. This becomes possible in consequence of severe austerities undergone previously.]

 

Observant of penances and always practising concentration of mind, the learned Brahmana, endued with intelligence, should observe the precepts of the science of Yoga, beholding the soul in the body. If the good man succeeds in concentrating the mind on the soul, he then, habituated to exclusive meditation, beholds the Supreme Soul in his own soul. Self-restrained and always concentrated, and with all his senses completely conquered, the man of cleansed soul, in consequence of such complete concentration of mind, succeeds in beholding the soul by the soul. As a person beholding some unseen individual in a dream recognizes him, saying – This is he,- when he sees him after waking, after the same manner the good man having seen the Supreme Soul in the deep contemplation of Samadhi recognises it upon waking from samadhi.

 

[Note: Having seen the Supreme Soul in Samadhi, upon waking from it, he recognises it in the universe, i.e., regards the universe to be nothing else than the Supreme Soul.]

 

As one beholds the fibrous pith after extracting it from a blade of the Saccharum Munja, even so the Yogi beholds the soul, extracting it from the body. The body has been called the Saccharum munja, and the fibrous pith is said to stand for the soul. This is the excellent illustration propounded by persons conversant with Yoga. When the bearer of a body adequately beholds the soul in Yoga, he then has no one that is master over him, for he then becomes the lord of the three worlds. He succeeds in assuming diverse bodies according as he wishes. Turning away decrepitude and death, he neither grieves nor exults. The self-restrained man, concentrated in Yoga, can create (for himself) the godship of the very gods. Casting off his transient body he attains to immutable Brahman.

 

No fear springs up in him at even the sight of all creatures falling victims to destruction (before his eyes). When all creatures are afflicted, - he can never be afflicted by any one. Devoid of desire and possessed of tranquil mind, the person in Yoga is never shaken by pain and sorrow and fear, the terrible effects that flow from attachment and affection. Weapons never pierce him; death does not exist for him. Nowhere in the world can be seen any one that is happier than he. Having adequately concentrated his soul, he lives steadily on himself. Turning off decrepitude and pain and pleasure, he sleeps in comfort. Casting off this human body he attains to (other) forms according to his pleasure. While one is enjoying the sovereignty that Yoga bestows, one should never fall away from devotion to Yoga

 

[Note: One should not fall away from the practice of Yoga, tempted by the puissance that Yoga brings.]

 

When one, after adequate devotion to Yoga, beholds the Soul in oneself, one then ceases to have any regard for even him of a hundred sacrifices (Indra).

 

[Note: The scholar and commentator Nilakantha notes that this indicates that only that Yogi who has not advanced much may be tempted by the desire of enjoyment. He, however, who has adequately devoted himself to Yoga feels no regard for Indra (the king of gods) himself.]

 

Hear now how one, habituating oneself to exclusive meditation, succeeds in attaining to Yoga. Thinking of that point of the compass that has the sun behind it, the mind should be fixed, not outside, but in the interior of that mansion in which one may happen to live. Residing within that mansion, the mind should then, with all its outward and inward (operations), behold in that particular room in which one may stay. At that time, when, having deeply meditated, one beholds the All (viz., Brahman, the Soul of the universe), there is then nothing external to Brahman where the mind may dwell. Restraining all the senses in a forest that is free from noise and that is uninhabited, with mind fixed thereon, one should meditate on the All (or universal Brahman) both outside and inside one’s body. One should meditate on the teeth, the palate, the tongue, the neck likewise; one should also meditate on the heart and the ligatures of the heart.

 

{Note: ‘That point of the compass which has the Sun behind it’ means the instructions laid down in the Vedanta as based upon Srutis. Sanskrit words such as Pura implies a city, a citadel, or a mansion. Here it refers to the body. The Avastha within the pura refers to the Chakra or nervous centres beginning with what is called Muladhara. At the time when Brahman is realised, the whole universe appears as Brahman and so nothing exists, besides Brahman, upon which the mind can then dwell.]

 

The Brahmana continued: thus addressed by me, that intelligent disciple once more asked me about this religion of Emancipation that is so difficult to explain. How does this food that is eaten from time to time become digested in the stomach? How does it become transformed into juice? How, again, into blood? How does it nourish the flesh, the marrow, the sinews, the bones? How do all these limbs of embodied creatures grow? How does the strength grow of the growing man? How occurs the escape of all such elements as are not nutritive, and of all impurities separately? How does this one inhale and again, exhale? Staying upon what particular part does the Soul dwell in the body? How does Jiva, exerting himself, bear the body? Of what colour and of what kind is the body in which he dwells again (leaving a particular body)? O holy one, it behoveth thee to tell me all this accurately. O sinless one, - even thus was I interrogated by that learned Brahmana. I replied unto him after the manner I myself had heard.

 

As one placing some precious object in one’s store-room should keep one’s mind on it, so, placing the mind within one’s own body, one should then, restraining all the senses, seek after the Soul, avoiding all heedlessness. One would, becoming always assiduous in this way and gratified with one’s own self, within a very short time attain to that Brahman by beholding which one would become conversant with Pradhana (that from which the entire universe has been created.)

 

He is not capable of being seized by the eye; nor even by all the senses. It is only with the lamp of the mind that great Soul can be seen. He has hands and feet on all sides; he has ears on all sides; he dwells, pervading all things in the world.

 

{Note: This answers the question respecting the form of the soul.]

 

Jiva (embodied soul) beholds the Soul as extracted from the body (like the stalk from a blade of Saccharum Munja, when knowledge comes). Then casting off Brahman invested with form, by holding the mind in the body, he beholds Brahman as freed from all attributes.

 

[Note: The ascension of the Yogi from Brahman vested with attributes to Brahman divested of all attributes. The Tam refers Brahma as endued with hands and feet on all sides, etc.]

 

He sees the Soul with his mind, smiling as it were at the time. Depending upon that Brahman, he then attains to Emancipation in Supreme Brahman.

 

Addressing Arjuna, Vasudeva (Krishna) said:

 

That best of Brahmana, O son of Pritha, having said these words unto me, on that occasion, properly relating to the religion of Emancipation, disappeared then and there.

 

Has this discourse been heard by thee, O son of Pritha, with mind directed solely towards it? Even this was what thou didst hear on that occasion while thou wert on the chariot (in the middle of the two armies in the battle-field of Kurukshetra). It is my opinion, O son of Pritha (Arjuna), that this is difficult of being comprehended by one whose understanding is confused, or who has acquired no wisdom by study, or who eats food incompatible with his body, or whose soul is not purified.

 

O chief of Bharata’s race, this is a great mystery among the deities that has been declared (to thee). At no time or place, O son of Pritha, has this been heard by man in this world. O sinless one, no other man than thyself is deserving of hearing it. It is not, at this time, capable of being easily understood by one whose inner soul is confused. The world of the deities is filled, O son of Kunti, with those who follow the religion of actions. The cessation of the mortal form (by practising the religion of inaction) is not agreeable to the deities.

 

[Note: Heaven is the reward for those who follow the religion of Pravritti or acts, such as sacrifices, religious observances, etc. The followers, however, of the religion of Nivritti or inaction, i.e., they who betake themselves to the path of knowledge, become emancipated. The deities derive their sustenance from the former and become even jealous of the latter, for the emancipate state is higher than that of the deities themselves. For more details on ‘Pravritti-Nivritti’ see the column on the left]

 

That goal, O son of Pritha, is the highest which is constituted by eternal Brahman where, one, casting off the body, attains to immortality and becomes always happy. By adhering to this religion, even they who are of sinful birth, such as women and Vaisyas and Sudras, attain to the highest goal. What need be said then, O son of Pritha, of Brahmanas and Kshatriyas possessed of great learning, always devoted to the duties of their own orders and who are intent on (the acquisition of) the religion of Brahman? This has been laid down with the reasons (on which it rests); and also the means for its acquisition; and its complete attainment and fruit, viz., Emancipation and ascertainment of the truth regarding pain.

 

O chief of Bharata’s race, there is nothing else that is fraught with happiness greater than this. That mortal, O son of Pandu, who, endued with intelligence, and faith, and prowess, renounces as unsubstantial what is regarded as substantial by the world, succeeds within a short time in obtaining the Supreme by these means. This is all that is to be said,- there is nothing else that is higher than this. Yoga takes place in his case, O son of Pritha, who devotes himself to its constant practice for a period of six months.

 

 

[Guest guest]

"No fear springs up in him at even the sight of all creatures falling victims to destruction (before his eyes). When all creatures are afflicted, - he can never be afflicted by any one. Devoid of desire and possessed of tranquil mind, the person in Yoga is never shaken by pain and sorrow and fear, the terrible effects that flow from attachment and affection" :

 

So when all creatures are afflicted, he can never be afflicted by anyone, how does one feel compassion for others who are suffering if he is devoid of feeling?

The whole premise of helping the needy and the suffering is because you FEEl for them..does that mean the yogi is devoid of compassion towards others, because compassion is a feeling??

[barney 0]

Compassion and feelings comes only to those who live in maya. Whereas a Yogi has passed that stage and one with the supreme. Those who live in compassin and feelings live through the karmic stage while a Yogi has passed that stage. This is the law of karma. Every action there is a reaction. You hurt some one because of compassion and feelings and that will create a bad karma. You love your family and because of that you may do certain thing against the order in order to satisfy your loved ones and that will create a bad karma and it will go on and on and so will you rebirth into this world. But a Yogi is above all this and he cannot have any compassion or feelings. All his thoughts and actions are forcused towards the Supreme Being and he will be united with God after this life while we will only come to that stage when we finally realize this truth after a couple of rebirths.

[Guest guest]

one who is realized does not lose compassion, simply he feel compassion on a transcendental plane, not because people has material problems, but because the people is far from the spiritual realization.

 

And he transfer this compassion in action helping others to achieve liberation..

 

feelings exist also in the absolute state, otherwise how can they exist in the relative? of course material feeling brings birth death and disease, and spiritual feeling brings sat(eternity), cit(consciousness), ananda(bliss.. a feeling:-))

[Guest guest]

What if a yogi gives up his family in his pursuit to attain moksha, does that make the yogi a selfish person?

After all he's abandonned his family who took care of him for something he's going to benifit from, moksha. The attainment of moksha is not a purely unselfish pursuit,after all we are gaining something from it...a blissfull feeling, an opportunity to escape pain and rebirth...etc..whatever it is.... the yogi is the one who is going to gaining something out of it.

[Guest guest]

What if a yogi gives up his family in his pursuit to attain moksha, does that make the yogi a selfish person?

••for first a sannyasi leaves the family with no economical or social problems and he does it in advanced age, then we will see if he has left the "mundane" family to really embrass the family of god and of the mankind and the service to everyone or to enjoy another kind of prestige, power and gratification. Sannyasa or yogi is in the hearth, not on the external behaviour, arjuna received the instruction that for him, to make yoga, bhakti yoga, real sannyasa renunciation, was to do his regular job and life with total devotion to krishna

 

"The attainment of moksha is not a purely unselfish pursuit,after all we are gaining something from it...a blissfull feeling, an opportunity to escape pain and rebirth...etc..whatever it is.... the yogi is the one who is going to gaining something out of it"

••all is explained by the fact that moksa or spiritual realization works like the business... you cannot gain anything if you do not invest before.. so if we want liberation, if we want to reach the absolute we have to have the deep desire to bring with us all the living beings in the world, otherwise it is selfish, and we fall in this world from vaikunta because we are selfish and we do not want to serve god and his devotees.

A man situated in sattva guna feels the pain of the others like they were his own and he cannot enjoy anything if he cannot distribute it to others, and moksa or prema is much more higher than sattva

[Guest guest]

"otherwise it is selfish, and we fall in this world from vaikunta because we are selfish and we do not want to serve god and his devotees."

 

Yes but we want to serve because god will give us something back in return...blessing or moksha. What if god didn't give us anything back in return for your bhakti..would we still pray to him?? The person who loves god regardless of if god gives him anything back in return or not..is the true unselfish devotee of god..but I don't think a person like that exhists.

 

Secondly if the yogis leaving his family causes them grief ..what does he do then?? What if a person gives up his chance to go to heaven to take care of his family....isn't that a huge sacrifice?? How many people would give up their chance to go to heaven just to keep their parents happy. And you know parents are regardly very highly of in hindu culture.

 

[maadhav 0]

dear guest,

 

what i understand matches with yours.

you gave a very good response.

please pick a user name. that helps.

 

narad is a top most bhakti yogi.

when he saw the people of the world suffering,

he felt compassionate.

as a solution to suffering, he gave bhabhavatam katha

which he heard from sanat kumras.

 

if a yogi becomes compassionless, as barney says, being close to god, then god also is very compassionless, and we know god loves all. so, essentially a yogi loves all.

 

howevver, if the yogis and swmis just care for themselves and none others, then the people and a nation would not get any benefit from the yogis.

 

a yogi who thinks "this world is dukhalaya and a place of misery, so let me realize god and get out of here. I do not care for others' god realization" are selfish yogis in my view.

 

we need many yogis and swamis who are very compassionate to hinduism, to all but especially to the Hindus, dharma, and the devabhoomi, and God.

 

we need to respect and love yogis and swamis

so that they would feel compasionalte to us and

help us realize god too. when a society at large becomes dharmic - krishna cnoscious, then the hinduim-malpractice reduces and ultimately stops, we get good/great politicians, educators, police, soldiers, merchants, etc. then we live in peace and happiness not at the cost of others, but by the grace of god. the problems of the nation also go away.

 

the peace i mentioened above is not a warless state where we live like cowards against the aggressors and invaders.

we would fight asuras and adharma - happily - as necessary.

 

dear barney,

could you agree?

 

 

[subroto 0]

Finally I got a username. Yes I agree with you all the way madhav. Thats why I disagree with people who say never to preach about god to people who are not interested. Thats how a lot of people got ignorant in the first place. A lot of yogis were keeping their knowledge to themselves..like you said "selfish yogis". These selfish yogis are one of the reason that led to hinduisms decline.

 

Secondly,I don't care what people say..we should never look down upon other people. Some brahmins..(especailly during the middle ages) would look down upon the dalits or untouchables...thats how the caste system became based on race rather than based on profession. God never looks down upon us..he always has compassion for everyone....if he the almighty cares about everyone ..who are the brahmins to look down upon the dalits. Instead we should try and uplift them..we should try and uplift society in general and help everyone..instead of ostracizing and alienating them. That will only generate more hate.

[Guest guest]

What if god didn't give us anything back in return for your bhakti..would we still pray to him??

•••there's no question of interest and not interest.. love for god is ontological, dharmic.. you have blood, you cannot decide if you like to have blood or not, blood is simply necessary to your life... and love for god is the same, The problem in this world that we transfer the love for god in his satcitananda aspect to his "veiled" manifestation as maya, and this gives the problems that everyone knows, But as living beings we cannot choose to not love god, we have to love him, in an aspect or another

 

The person who loves god regardless of if god gives him anything back in return or not..is the true unselfish devotee of god

••and you are right, i did'nt want to introduce this theme suddenly... true love, or true bhakti, or love/bhakti at their highest level means that the bhakta/lover does not want any prize,he doesn't even pretend to be loved or seen by the lord. But it is very esoteric, we can speak of it in theory, but for us conditioned souls it could be enough to firmly desire vaikunta to escape from sufferings.. but i repeat that your analysis is exact

 

but I don't think a person like that exhists.

••god does not leave this world without pure devotees, it would be the sign that god have abandoned us, but he can't , we are his parts and parcels, So pure devotees are there, and if we are sincere sri bhagavan will send them saving us from material world

 

Secondly if the yogis leaving his family causes them grief ..what does he do then??

••it depends on how much he's pure on wanting to join the family of god and brothers... if there's a little percentage of self interest, of self gratification of being an ascetic, some saint, a renowned yogi he will take bad karma going at a lower level of consciousness than he was where he lived as a family man. Krsna in the gita, in the famous verse "sarva dharma.." says : "leave any other dharma..... but SURRENDER.. if you do it i will protect you, i will take the responsability of the karmic reactions of having broken the dharmas... but SURRENDER, completely not partially"

So if we do something strange socially to really surrender, like the gopis, like radharani.. no problem, krsna will protect from the mundane adharmas we are doing, but if we are partially surrendered or not surrendered we will take the karma. Krsna says "Surrender to me, leave other dharmas, i will protect" all three aspects have to go together

 

What if a person gives up his chance to go to heaven to take care of his family....isn't that a huge sacrifice??

••family is not against going to the spiritual world, god has given to us these companions, they are not ours, they are god's property, so we have to bring them to god. Devotion is not in the external activity, in the caste, in the dress, devotion is in the heart.. the all bhagavad gita is meant to explain to arjuna that if he wants to surrender to god (sri krishna bhagavan) he has not to give up his duty, his guna and karma to be a warrior, a politician, a king. These things are given by krishna , before he was serving Him in the form of maya going under his karma laws, when he choosen to be instructed by krsna bhagavan in the role of the spiritual master, he turned his karmic activities in yogic activities changing his heart and thoughts. Before he was living his life with the purpose to enjoy egoistically of material nature, then he was living the same life but with the purpose to serve god without self interest.

Same activity, before karma, now yoga, bhakti yoga

(of course arjuna is an eternally realized soul, he does it to show the path to us)

 

How many people would give up their chance to go to heaven just to keep their parents happy. And you know parents are regardly very highly of in hindu culture.

•••any personal case has to be taken personally, there's a big possibility to follow the path of bhakti without to escape from the family or the society... one serious in spiritual achievements has to ask advices from a serious, pure and competent spiritual master. In kaly yuga going back to godhead is more possible through offering our average life.. ascetism, sannyasi, yogi, brahmacharya, in traditional sense, are almost impossible to practice... not impossible, almost impossible.

 

[Guest guest]

"dear guest,

what i understand matches with yours.

you gave a very good response.

please pick a user name. that helps."

 

•••dear madhaav das.. i have alredy written in this forum, and you can easily recognize me because my english is very strange and bad.

You made me compliments other times, and i thank you with all my heart, but i feel sorry and disappointed when you, commenting any spiritual theme or my answers, you start speaking on the subject very well then, gradually, you end on the same subject that we have to fight muslims, protect hinduism and so on.

 

Also in the subject of an egoist or altruist yogi you have bended the discussion to the fact that if a yogi is not egoist he has to fight etc.etc.etc.

 

I think that yours is an important need and a big problem for all india and for the entire world, but, on spiritual plane it is a simple and little kali yuga phenomenon (the age of quarrels) and it could not be never solved completely with material systems, militar or political opposition, but, maybe , with the spreading of god consciousness.

 

So, please, take it as a little protest, maybe you do not care, but i will contribute more organically when you will put sometimes aside your obsession with muslims

 

do not ever think at muslims, even if when you speak of spiritual subjects, if you die with muslims in mind you will take birth as a muslim!!

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

jaya sri krishna, jaya sri madhava!!

[maadhav 0]

subroto,

 

thanks for choosing a user name.

 

yes, what you said is agreeable.

none should malpractide hinduism.

we need work to stop any malpractice.

 

<< Thats why I disagree with people who say never to preach about god to people who are not interested. >>

 

we should not preach to those who are not interested to know about hindusm, or have no friendly attitude to know it or are envious to hinduism or the vedic culture. why? becaue that is the advice to us by krishna in gita.

 

but when some one misrepresents hinduism

or slanders or insults hindu devas or bhagavan,

or misrepresents the vedic culture,

then we must never remain silent.

 

we do not need to preach him hinduism,

but we need to teach him a lesson.

 

again violence or sever action is the last choice,

but it is a choice if none works.

 

to do so, the hindus need to understand hinduism well by studying gita, then need to live by gita, no dharma-malpractice. then be prepared to respond intelligenty to any one who slanders hinduism.

 

hope you agree.

 

[subroto 0]

I do agree that we have to stop false prophets, but as far as preaching hinduism goes we all do it to some extent. Think about it, how could you have ever found out about hinduism unless you were exposed to it as a child. If no one had ever told you about it you would have have been in the dark and so would we all. Imagine hinduism had been in the hands of a few swamis who had refused to spread the word to the rest of the people...none of us would be here discussing about hinduism. Now on the other hand I am in no way suggesting that we should market our religion the way many christians have done on tv..that would be against hinduism, but there are many people there in the dark who need help and don't know how to get it. For eg. If i get rejected by 10 people but if even one persons life is changed because of me telling him/her about hinduism ..i'll feel like i have accomplished something.

[barney 0]

There is much to it but did not see teh point in elobration. A yogi is the seeker of truth but when he asked about compassion and feelings I said no coz if he does than he cannot acheive what he seek and I explained the reason in simple terms. Of course a Yogi must have love in his heart which means when he sees another human being he will also see God in that human amd feelings surely he will have feelings for the sick and meek but can only give spritual blessing and beyond that he knows it is their karma to go through life as such. A Swami is different from a Yogi. He has been destined to help the sick and whatever way he can. But remember this not all yogis or swamies are true to their nature. Many are bogus and misdirect the devotess for their selfisf gain.

[maadhav 0]

dear subroto,

 

i agree.

 

to those who love us (e.g. children, family, friends), and also are ignorant, we sure can tell them about dharma and how to practice it and train them, grow them as good hindus.

 

to the others, we need to make them interested inhinduism before telling/preaching to them.

 

e.g.we can tell that all want to be happy, and still many times people do not get happiness. hinduism shows how to get really happy.

 

we can also tell that some other cultures pursue happiness and their actions only produce suffering and destruction of others. we need to show comparison of such ideologies with dharma. think of different factors of a religion, like tolerance, freedom, concept and characteristics of god, soul, jiva, nature, heaven, hell, kind of prayers, history, etc. compare each factor across a number of religions. when done so, hinduism would stand out a clear choice for a sane human.

 

also we can go on tv and radios, but our presentation attitude and method would be different than xians or islam.

we hindus are very expert in debating in public or privte, in a very civilized way. just as the political debates are held on tv, religious debates can be held also; and the vedic culure always have had public debates about dharma and god. e.g. ramanuj aacharya defeated jain siddhanta, but the jain proponets walked away from the debate and did not give up jain siddhanta.

 

hinduism is not an orgnized religion.

but when the organized religions are making attempts of monstrous size ceaselessly to wipe out other rligions, then we have not choice but to organise/unite and hold our culture free from their attacks.

 

yes, it does not matter if ten or even 100 people reject our effort of sharing hinduism, if ony one understands and accepts it. karmaNyevAdhikArathe mA phaleshhu kadAchana

 

jyota se jyota jagAte chalo..

may the truth spread like this.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yes there are some bogus people like saibaba misguiding their devotees.