THE MYTH OF ARYAN INVASION OF INDIA BY: David Frawley

[Guest guest]

I think the real problem is when 'politics' get mixed up with history. Another problem is lack of clear definitions, like 'dravidic'. Some people on this forum are trying to simplify these issues to 'black' or 'white' race, which obviously doesn't apply to the varied cultures of 'india'. It's not africa, it's not europe.

[Guest guest]

Uh, I'm a Hindu. Sorry, but I choose to look at things with objectivity. I don't want to believe the Aryan invasion/migration is true, but facts are facts. You can't just ignore them or just twist them around.

 

Now, do I believe in Krishna? Yeah, I do. From what I've read so far from posts around here and in other Hindu sites (and I could be very mistaken), the Mahabharata and Ramayana were texts that were originally written in a language other than Sanskrit and were just translated into it by the Aryans. AIT/AIM doesn't negate every event that occurred in the Mahabharata and Ramayana, although it would most certainly give cause to question the legitimacy of those events.

 

Part of the AIT/AIM theory is that horses and chariots were BROUGHT into India, and they are not indigenous to India. If that is true, then obviously the images and events depicted in the Mahabharata and Ramayana may not have happened the way they are presented today. But the essence of those epics could still be true.

 

 

[Guest guest]

"Aryan Migration Theory could be true. I did'nt believe in AIT or AMT until one of my teacher who have studied philosophy and tamil literatures well brought up the discussion about it. Whatever he said made a lot of sense. He said that pooja for long life, for better marriage life, pooja women do for their husband's health came after Aryan migrated in India. As evidences, he showed that there are no Dravidian scriptures which have been written before Aryan migration date mention anything about the those type of pooja. And he says that Aryan brought up the different kind of poojas, different gods and the caste system to rule peacfully over the Dravidian. People would be busy doing poojas and worshipping different gods thinking that they are suffering because of god, and if they do those kind of poojas they'll get a better life. So, people won't have time or thoughts of who is ruling them. And the caste system were created to make the dravidians fight each other, so they won't have time to fight aryans. "

 

This is all under the assumption the Aryans had migrated/invaded India. And that Dravidians were indigenous to India. Yet, from what I've read over in these forums and other places, there is cause for speculation to suggest that Dravidians weren't indigenous to India, and that they moved north from even southern regions. So their culture could have developed independently of "Aryans" (who may have just been indigenous to India), but influenced by them once their culture came into contact with the "Aryans".

 

 

 

[Dravidian 0]

Brinaath, I think you have been led to believe something by your teacher that is false. The reasons you have stated for AIT being true don't make any sense for AIT being true. So there were some poojas that evolved after a certain date that seems to correspond after this supposed AIT. That means nothing. Poojas were performed because wisemen or rishis dicovered the ability to make certain things happen through them. And of course a new pooja can be discovered even today.

 

The caste system was not for one race to rule over others as it may seem today in the kali-yuga. The caste system was made for certain people with certain virtues and abilities to serve they're society and people in the ways they best could. Brahmins were dark and light skinned if you really want to know. The term Varna refers to colour yes, but to colour of virtue, white being pure in virtue, not colour of skin. Do not let ignorant colour supremacists whether light skinned or dark confuse the truth. All one needs is search themselves and they will find the Truth through God.

 

We meditate on the glory of the Creator;

Who has created the Universe;

Who is worthy of Worship;

Who is the embodiment of Knowledge and Light;

Who is the remover of all Sin and Ignorance;

May He enlighten our Intellect.

[Dravidian 0]

Please read the sites I have posted.....there is little chance that chariots and horses were able to come through the terrain that AIT/AIM claims that the aryans came from to invade/migrate into indus valley.

 

[Guest guest]

are you dravidian?

[Guest guest]

of course you don't have to answer that, i'm what some would consider 'fair', just for sake of argument.

[Guest guest]

That is a good question. And it is quiet relevant to the subject for my background can make for a biased outlook. I am Tamil, but I do not look it. My father looks more dravidian than I. My mother is light skinned, but still Tamil. I am in the middle. I have traits of both Dravidian and lighter skinned people. I still hail from a Darvidian blood line, but there is no denying that I have other than Dravidian blood that has come to mingle with my family at some point and is now my own.

 

But to further continue our discussion, the Tamil language predates even the Sanskrit language as many Dravidian languages do. I believe at some point lighter skinned people did come to India and the mingling of them and perhaps other races has developed into present day India, and Sri Lanka. But I refute the way the AIT/AIM tends to interpret the facts. I depend on the Baghavad Gita and other scriptures to tell me the history of my own peoples. I believe if there really was an invasion, it would be somewhere in the scriptures. Perhaps science may unearth the truth without the obscurity of western semantics and propaganda. If not, then I am at the mercy of God to show me in some way, if God wish it so.

[Dravidian 0]

That is a good question. And it is quiet relevant to the subject for my background can make for a biased outlook. I am Tamil, but I do not look it. My father looks more dravidian than I. My mother is light skinned, but still Tamil. I am in the middle. I have traits of both Dravidian and lighter skinned people. I still hail from a Darvidian blood line, but there is no denying that I have other than Dravidian blood that has come to mingle with my family at some point and is now my own.

 

But to further continue our discussion, the Tamil language predates even the Sanskrit language as many Dravidian languages do. I believe at some point lighter skinned people did come to India and the mingling of them and perhaps other races has developed into present day India, and Sri Lanka. But I refute the way the AIT/AIM tends to interpret the facts. I depend on the Baghavad Gita and other scriptures to tell me the history of my own peoples. I believe if there really was an invasion, it would be somewhere in the scriptures. Perhaps science may unearth the truth without the obscurity of western semantics and propaganda. If not, then I am at the mercy of God to show me in some way, if God wish it so.

[Guest guest]

Yes, you made the point that i coudn't make, which is that 'india' has different 'shades', 'features', of people. Making discussion of ait something that should be relugated to linguinstics, archeology, not politics.

[Guest guest]

color changes very quickly, cultural inheritance does not. The dalits are humans like anyone else, and i read their literature just like any other.

[Dravidian 0]

Dear Shreewd, you are correct with respect to colour and heritage in my opinion. Thank you for the discussion on this subject.

[brinthan 0]

AIT says that Dravidians were the first arrival in india. And if someone wants to prove that AIT/AMT is false, the only way to prove it by taking Dravidian scriptures as evidences. Dravidian scriptures support AIT/AMT a lot. So, I don't see where the teacher could be wrong. A lot of people who are mastered in dravidia literatures believe in AIT.

 

Sanatana Dharma doesn't have only one idea. According to Dravidian's belief, we are all gods. Look in the theory of Breath of Brahman. Dravidians believe that god, the great singularity took forms because it was feeling lonely or so. And the way to go back to god is to realize that we are everything, everything is us. But according to Aryan's belief, we are here because we were thinking that we are like gods, therefore we should get to enjoy material energy, and why the god is the only one who get to enjoy everything. And the way to get back to go is to pray god that we made a mistake by choosing this life, and we want to go back home. You see... they are two opposite theories for lives and god.

 

About new poojas being invented. It's like the old egypt. In old egypt people were worshipping more than 100 gods and the rulers didn't have to face any revolution because people were busy worshipping their gods. And after the aryan invasion there were a lot of supersitious started to occur. Such as burning books is good, puting the scriptures in the river would give a person a good karma, doing poojas will get them out from the bad karma, and all. (taking dravidian scriptures as evidences) those kind of activities weren't being followed before aryan invasion.

 

In the past, Brahmins were ruling everything, they even put a law that whoever wants to get knowledge (others than brahmins) should be put to death. (There are a lot of things than those. I just start learning them now) Now, look at them, they became the helpless society. (no offence) but brahmins are not being treated well nowadays (speaking from my own experience).

 

Now, what is other the explanations than that we are all god, and our mind is the powerful thing explain all these things in the world? That theory explains a lot about other religions as well.

[Guest guest]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Jai Shri Krishna

 

I think many people are wasting time in discussing AIT theories. what use of discussing theories ?

 

I think there are no atheists here. Everyone here are theists. So lets believe whatever mentioned in "Vedas" & follow their sampradayams.

 

So lets chant name of "Hari" instead of discussing theories.

 

It will be much better if we involve in "Satsang" rather than discussing theories.

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Jai Shri Krishna

[Guest guest]

Here's an interesting article on the whole situation:

www.wam.umd.edu/~ninad/assorted/Aryans.html

 

By the way, I'm curious, what else do the Dravidians believe? Are much of their beliefs in common with the Vedas? Or are they very different?

[brinthan 0]

Gokul, maybe you are right, there's isn't any point arguing about which theory is right. Maybe, all these theories are false. who knows??

[Guest guest]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Jai Shri Krishna

 

I am from sourashtra community (Pushtimarg). So my mother tongue is sourashtra. anyway im not a tamilian/dravidian.

 

i am living in Chennai (tamilnadu).

 

till now i have seen most of tamilians believeing "only" shiva purana as "sole" authority. they dont know whats written in "Vedas, Upanishads & Gita". Moreover they are not even intrested to know about vedas, upanishads & Gita.

 

anyway lets close this AIT topic & discuss "satsang".

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Jai Shri krishna.

[Dravidian 0]

First of all, Aryan's never invaded, they were always in India, the Dravidians are Aryans. Second, I do not deny that people eventually immigrated into India, but I deny the poilitical and racial undertones that is used by AIT/AIM to say that Indians were inferior, or that they were conquered. It is obvious that people of lighter skin are also apart of India, but India was never "invaded" by them. If you read the Gita, you will see that Indians possessed advanced technology that would slaughter any invaders during those times. But they eventually regressed because of nuclear war.

[Guest guest]

"anyway im not a tamilian/dravidian"

 

So you are an Aryan??

 

"most of tamilians believeing "only" shiva purana as "sole" authority. they dont know whats written in "Vedas, Upanishads & Gita".

 

Dont generalise, and expose your biased ignorance.

Go and read more before assuming your self apointed role of commentator on Tamils.

 

[Guest guest]

"First of all, Aryan's never invaded, they were always in India, the Dravidians are Aryans".

 

Then please explain why the scriptures speak of the dravidians?

 

Why is there a need for Dravidian veda (aka upaya vedanta) both in the Tamil saivite and vaisnavite traditions?

 

Before you make silly comments, go and study the Tamil religious traditions. Adopting Dravidian ID does not qualify you to be an authority on Dravidian tradition.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

Then please explain why the scriptures speak of the dravidians?

 

 

Wow ! You must be intelligent. I never thought about it.

 

For your information Vedas do not speak about Dravidians. There is no mention according to my knowledge. If you say there is provide reference from Vedas.

 

On the other hand Manu Smriti mentions DRAVIDAS as Kshatriyas ie it means that Dravidas are Aryas as per Sanskrit scrptures.

 

 

Why is there a need for Dravidian veda (aka upaya vedanta) both in the Tamil saivite and vaisnavite traditions?

 

 

This is for people who cannot read Sanskrit. Every tradition in India has their own scriptures in their own language. For example Gaudiya Vaishnavas of Bengal have Chaitanya Charitamrta in Bengali.

 

 

Before you make silly comments, go and study the Tamil religious traditions. Adopting Dravidian ID does not qualify you to be an authority on Dravidian tradition.

 

 

and who are ou to tell others whether he is Dravidian or not. If you do not agree to a person you should give rational reasons. Making silly comments like this makes you look pretty silly.

[Guest guest]

The fact is that many 'dravidic' people are "fair" or euro looking. This whole argument is confused as it is assuming 'north, fair', 'south, dark'. This is NOT THE CASE. This argument is only valid as a linguistic or non color one.

[Dravidian 0]

Thank you for proving the points I could not with my words. In response to the other Guest, I am Tamil and don't claim to be a Darvidian, I am!!! Being Arya is an honor by trying to follow sanatana dharma. Don't bring the arguments to personal grounds and try to make petty insults when you have no authority to. What do you know of me?! Just discuss the subject, that's all.

[Dravidian 0]

Yes Dravidic people have become fair as well, like my mother. But even in Dravidic culture where my parents are from, they are taught that Dravidic people were originally dark or even black. When one says "Tamil complexion", for many dark skin is one of the first things that come to mind. But, you are correct in that today there are fair and dark Dravidians. Good point! So what makes them Dravidian now? What has always made them Dravidian...the language and culture. Again a good point Shreewd.

[Guest guest]

Hello to all.

 

Please lets close this AIT topic & discuss "satsang" ie., glories of God.

 

Lets follow vedas & our sampradayams.

 

No use in arguing aryan, dravidian. everyone are sons of God.

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Jai Shri Krishna