Archeological find in Kuwait

[barney 0]

 

Tue Jan 27 2004 11:25:47 pm

219.95.148.194

 

[Note: A recent archeological find in Kuwait unearthed a gold-plated

statue of the Hindu deity Ganesh. A Muslim resident of Kuwait requested

historical research material that can help explain the connection between Hindu civilisation and Arabia.]

 

Was the Kaaba Originally a Hindu Temple?

By P.N. Oak (Historian)

 

Glancing through some research material recently, I was pleasantly surprised to come across a reference to a king Vikramaditya inscription found in the Kaaba in Mecca proving beyond doubt that the Arabian Peninsula formed a part of his Indian Empire.

 

The text of the crucial Vikramaditya inscription, found inscribed on a gold dish hung inside the Kaaba shrine in Mecca, is found recorded on page 315 of a volume known as ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ treasured in the Makhtab-e-Sultania library in Istanbul, Turkey. Rendered in free English the inscription says:

 

"Fortunate are those who were born (and lived) during king Vikram’s reign. He was a noble, generous dutiful ruler, devoted to the welfare of his subjects. But at that time we Arabs, oblivious of God, were lost in sensual pleasures. Plotting and torture were rampant. The darkness of ignorance had enveloped our country. Like the lamb struggling for her life in the cruel paws of a wolf we Arabs were caught up in ignorance. The entire country was enveloped in a darkness so intense as on a new moon night. But the present dawn and pleasant sunshine of education is the result of the favour of the noble king Vikramaditya whose benevolent supervision did not lose sight of us- foreigners as we were. He spread his sacred religion amongst us and sent scholars whose brilliance shone like that of the sun from his country to ours. These scholars and preceptors through whose benevolence we were once again made cognisant of the presence of God, introduced to His sacred existence and put on the road of Truth, had come to our country to preach their religion and impart education at king Vikramaditya’s behest."

 

For those who would like to read the Arabic wording I reproduce it hereunder in Roman script:

 

"Itrashaphai Santu Ibikramatul Phahalameen Karimun Yartapheeha Wayosassaru Bihillahaya Samaini Ela Motakabberen Sihillaha Yuhee Quid min howa Yapakhara phajjal asari nahone osirom bayjayhalem. Yundan blabin Kajan blnaya khtoryaha sadunya kanateph netephi bejehalin Atadari bilamasa- rateen phakef tasabuhu kaunnieja majekaralhada walador. As hmiman burukankad toluho watastaru hihila Yakajibaymana balay kulk amarena phaneya jaunabilamary Bikramatum".

 

(Page 315 Sayar-ul-okul).

 

[Note: The title ‘Saya-ul-okul’ signifies memorable words.]

 

A careful analysis of the above inscription enables us to draw the following conclusions:

 

That the ancient Indian empires may have extended up to the eastern boundaries of Arabia until Vikramaditya and that it was he who for the first time conquered Arabia. Because the inscription says that king Vikram who dispelled the darkness of ignorance from Arabia.

 

That, whatever their earlier faith, King Vikrama’s preachers had succeeded in spreading the Vedic (based on the Vedas, the Hindu sacred scriptures)) way of life in Arabia.

 

That the knowledge of Indian arts and sciences was imparted by Indians to the Arabs directly by founding schools, academies and cultural centres. The belief, therefore, that visiting Arabs conveyed that knowledge to their own lands through their own indefatigable efforts and scholarship is unfounded.

 

An ancillary conclusion could be that the so-called Kutub Minar (in Delhi, India) could well be king Vikramadiya’s tower commemorating his conquest of Arabia. This conclusion is strengthened by two pointers. Firstly, the inscription on the iron pillar near the so-called Kutub Minar refers to the marriage of the victorious king Vikramaditya to the princess of Balhika. This Balhika is none other than the Balkh region in West Asia. It could be that Arabia was wrestled by king Vikramaditya from the ruler of Balkh who concluded a treaty by giving his daughter in marriage to the victor. Secondly, the township adjoining the so called Kutub Minar is named Mehrauli after Mihira who was the renowned astronomer-mathematician of king Vikram’s court. Mehrauli is the corrupt form of Sanskrit ‘Mihira-Awali’ signifying a row of houses raised for Mihira and his helpers and assistants working on astronomical observations made from the tower.

 

Having seen the far reaching and history shaking implications of the Arabic inscription concerning king Vikrama, we shall now piece together the story of its find. How it came to be recorded and hung in the Kaaba in Mecca. What are the other proofs reinforcing the belief that Arabs were once followers of the Indian Vedic way of life and that tranquillity and education were ushered into Arabia by king Vikramaditya’s scholars, educationists from an uneasy period of "ignorance and turmoil" mentioned in the inscription.

 

In Istanbul, Turkey, there is a famous library called Makhatab-e-Sultania, which is reputed to have the largest collection of ancient West Asian literature. In the Arabic section of that library is an anthology of ancient Arabic poetry. That anthology was compiled from an earlier work in A.D. 1742 under the orders of the Turkish ruler Sultan Salim.

 

The pages of that volume are of Hareer – a kind of silk used for writing on. Each page has a decorative gilded border. That anthology is known as Sayar-ul-Okul. It is divided into three parts. The first part contains biographic details and the poetic compositions of pre-Islamic Arabian poets. The second part embodies accounts and verses of poets of the period beginning just after prophet Mohammad’s times, up to the end of the Banee-Um-Mayya dynasty. The third part deals with later poets up to the end of Khalif Harun-al-Rashid’s times.

 

Abu Amir Asamai, an Arabian bard who was the poet Laureate of Harun-al-Rashid’s court, has compiled and edited the anthology.

 

The first modern edition of ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ was printed and published in Berlin in 1864. A subsequent edition is the one published in Beirut in 1932.

 

The collection is regarded as the most important and authoritative anthology of ancient Arabic poetry. It throws considerable light on the social life, customs, manners and entertainment modes of ancient Arabia. The book also contains an elaborate description of the ancient shrine of Mecca, the town and the annual fair known as OKAJ which used to be held every year around the Kaaba temple in Mecca. This should convince readers that the annual haj of the Muslims to the Kaaba is of earlier pre-Islamic congregation.

 

But the OKAJ fair was far from a carnival. It provided a forum for the elite and the learned to discuss the social, religious, political, literary and other aspects of the Vedic culture then pervading Arabia. ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ asserts that the conclusion reached at those discussions were widely respected throughout Arabia. Mecca, therefore, followed the Varanasi tradition (of India) of providing a venue for important discussions among the learned while the masses congregated there for spiritual bliss. The principal shrines at both Varanasi in India and at Mecca in Arvasthan (Arabia) were Siva temples. Even to this day ancient Mahadev (Siva) emblems can be seen. It is the Shankara (Siva) stone that Muslim pilgrims reverently touch and kiss in the Kaaba.

 

Arabic tradition has lost trace of the founding of the Kaaba temple. The discovery of the Vikramaditya inscription affords a clue. King Vikramaditya is known for his great devotion to Lord Mahadev (Siva). At Ujjain (India), the capital of Vikramaditya, exists the famous shrine of Mahankal, i.e., of Lord Shankara (Siva) associated with Vikramaditya. Since according to the Vikramaditya inscription he spread the Vedic religion, who else but he could have founded the Kaaba temple in Mecca?

 

A few miles away from Mecca is a big signboard which bars the entry of any non-Muslim into the area. This is a reminder of the days when the Kaaba was stormed and captured solely for the newly established faith of Islam. The object in barring entry of non-Muslims was obviously to prevent its recapture.

 

As the pilgrim proceeds towards Mecca he is asked to shave his head and beard and to don special sacred attire that consists of two seamless sheets of white cloth. One is to be worn round the waist and the other over the shoulders. Both these rites are remnants of the old Vedic practice of entering Hindu temples clean- and with holy seamless white sheets.

 

The main shrine in Mecca, which houses the Siva emblem, is known as the Kaaba. It is clothed in a black shroud. That custom also originates from the days when it was thought necessary to discourage its recapture by camouflaging it.

 

According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, the Kaaba has 360 images. Traditional accounts mention that one of the deities among the 360 destroyed when the place was stormed, was that of Saturn; another was of the Moon and yet another was one called Allah. That shows that in the Kaaba the Arabs worshipped the nine planets in pre-Islamic days. In India the practice of ‘Navagraha’ puja, that is worship of the nine planets, is still in vogue. Two of these nine are Saturn and Moon.

 

In India the crescent moon is always painted across the forehead of the Siva symbol. Since that symbol was associated with the Siva emblem in Kaaba it came to be grafted on the flag of Islam.

 

Another Hindu tradition associated with the Kaaba is that of the sacred stream Ganga (sacred waters of the Ganges river). According to the Hindu tradition Ganga is also inseparable from the Shiva emblem as the crescent moon. Wherever there is a Siva emblem, Ganga must co-exist. True to that association a sacred fount exists near the Kaaba. Its water is held sacred because it has been traditionally regarded as Ganga since pre-Islamic times (Zam-Zam water).

 

[Note: Even today, Muslim pilgrims who go to the Kaaba for Haj regard this Zam-Zam water with reverence and take some bottled water with them as sacred water.]

 

Muslim pilgrims visiting the Kaaba temple go around it seven times. In no other mosque does the circumambulation prevail. Hindus invariably circumambulate around their deities. This is yet another proof that the Kaaba shrine is a pre-Islamic Indian Shiva temple where the Hindu practice of circumambulation is still meticulously observed.

 

The practice of taking seven steps- known as Saptapadi in Sanskrit- is associated with Hindu marriage ceremony and fire worship. The culminating rite in a Hindu marriage enjoins upon the bride and groom to go round the sacred fire four times (but misunderstood by many as seven times). Since "Makha" means fire, the seven circumambulations also prove that Mecca was the seat of Indian fire-worship in the West Asia.

 

It might come as a stunning revelation to many that the word ‘ALLAH’ itself is Sanskrit. In Sanskrit language Allah, Akka and Amba are synonyms. They signify a goddess or mother. The term ‘ALLAH’ forms part of Sanskrit chants invoking goddess Durga, also known as Bhavani, Chandi and Mahishasurmardini. The Islamic word for God is., therefore, not an innovation but the ancient Sanskrit appellation retained and continued by Islam. Allah means mother or goddess and mother goddess.

 

One Koranic verse is an exact translation of a stanza in the Yajurveda. This was pointed out by the great research scholar Pandit Satavlekar of Pardi in one of his articles.

 

[Note: Another scholar points out that the following teaching from the Koran is exactly similar to the teaching of the Kena Upanishad (1.7).

 

The Koran:

 

"Sight perceives Him not. But He perceives men's sights; for He is the knower of secrets , the Aware."

 

Kena Upanishad:

 

"That which cannot be seen by the eye but through which the eye itself sees, know That to be Brahman (God) and not what people worship here (in the manifested world)."

 

A simplified meaning of both the above verses reads:

 

God is one and that He is beyond man's sensory experience.]

 

The identity of Unani and Ayurvedic systems shows that Unani is just the Arabic term for the Ayurvedic system of healing taught to them and administered in Arabia when Arabia formed part of the Indian empire.

 

It will now be easy to comprehend the various Hindu customs still prevailing in West Asian countries even after the existence of Islam during the last 1300 years. Let us review some Hindu traditions which exist as the core of Islamic practice.

 

The Hindus have a pantheon of 33 gods. People in Asia Minor too worshipped 33 gods before the spread of Islam. The lunar calendar was introduced in West Asia during the Indian rule. The Muslim month ‘Safar’ signifying the ‘extra’ month (Adhik Maas) in the Hindu calendar. The Muslim month Rabi is the corrupt form of Ravi meaning the sun because Sanskrit ‘V’ changes into Prakrit ‘B’ (Prakrit being the popular version of Sanskrit language). The Muslim sanctity for Gyrahwi Sharif is nothing but the Hindu Ekadashi (Gyrah = elevan or Gyaarah). Both are identical in meaning.

 

The Islamic practice of Bakari Eed derives from the Go-Medh and Ashva-Medh Yagnas or sacrifices of Vedic times. Eed in Sanskrit means worship. The Islamic word Eed for festive days, signifying days of worship, is therefore a pure Sanskrit word. The word MESH in the Hindu zodiac signifies a lamb. Since in ancient times the year used to begin with the entry of the sun in Aries, the occasion was celebrated with mutton feasting. That is the origin of the Bakari Eed festival.

 

[Note: The word Bakari is an Indian language word for a goat.]

 

Since Eed means worship and Griha means ‘house’, the Islamic word Idgah signifies a ‘House of worship’ which is the exact Sanskrit connotation of the term. Similarly the word ‘Namaz’ derives from two Sanskrit roots ‘Nama’ and ‘Yajna’ (NAMa yAJna) meaning bowing and worshipping.

 

Vedic descriptions about the moon, the different stellar constellations and the creation of the universe have been incorporated from the Vedas in Koran part 1 chapter 2, stanza 113, 114, 115, and 158, 189, chapter 9, stanza 37 and chapter 10, stanzas 4 to 7.

 

Recital of the Namaz five times a day owes its origin to the Vedic injunction of Panchmahayagna (five daily worship- Panch-Maha-Yagna) which is part of the daily Vedic ritual prescribed for all individuals.

 

Muslims are enjoined cleanliness of five parts of the body before commencing prayers. This derives from the Vedic injuction ‘Shareer Shydhyartham Panchanga Nyasah’.

 

Four months of the year are regarded as very sacred in Islamic custom. The devout are enjoined to abstain from plunder and other evil deeds during that period. This originates in the Chaturmasa i.e., the four-month period of special vows and austerities in Hindu tradition. Shabibarat is the corrupt form of Shiva Vrat and Shiva Ratra. Since the Kaaba has been an important centre of Shiva (Siva) worship from times immemorial, the Shivaratri festival used to be celebrated there with great gusto. It is that festival which is signified by the Islamic word Shabibarat.

 

Encyclopaedias tell us that there are inscriptions on the side of the Kaaba walls. What they are, no body has been allowed to study, according to the correspondence I had with an American scholar of Arabic. But according to hearsay at least some of those inscriptions are in Sanskrit, and some of them are stanzas from the Bhagavad Gita.

 

According to extant Islamic records, Indian merchants had settled in Arabia, particularly in Yemen, and their life and manners deeply influenced those who came in touch with them. At Ubla there was a large number of Indian settlements. This shows that Indians were in Arabia and Yemen in sufficient strength and commanding position to be able to influence the local people. This could not be possible unless they belonged to the ruling class.

 

It is mentioned in the Abadis i.e., the authentic traditions of Prophet Mohammad compiled by Imam Bukhari that the Indian tribe of Jats had settled in Arabia before Prophet Mohammad’s times. Once when Hazrat Ayesha, wife of the Prophet, was taken ill, her nephew sent for a Jat physician for her treatment. This proves

 

[Guest guest]

Thats a Good research Alhamdulillah (All Praise to Lord!)

I just want to add some more, yes in pre-revealation time, I mean before THE QUR'AN was revealed, the people used to circumbulate around Kaba!

They were naked, both women and men naked! together used to CIRCUMBULATE around kaba before revealation of the Qur'an.

 

Yes there are many SIMILARITIES between Islaam and Hindusim, Does it mean Islam a new religion? NO NO!

There is a verse from the Qur'an which says something like this : there is not a tribe or nation which was left unattended with a message from God and Warner from God.

 

This means there were Many Prophets and Messengers sent to this Earth, before Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). Infact there is a Hadith in which we come to know that Allah has sent 1,24,000 Prophets to this Earth right from Adam(Pbuh) to Muhammed(pbuh).

 

There are SIMILARITIES, between Islam and Other religion. But The poor thing is that, the followers of other religion arent aware of their scriptures. And they worship false dieties, when only One God! WHO is the creator of everything DESERVES TO BE WORSHIPED!

 

EVERYTHING IS GOD?????

 

NO! EVERYTHING IS GOD's !!!!

 

And Allah knows Best!

[barney 0]

Those with scriptures are aware of the Supreme Being you call Allah, Christian call Thy Father in Haven, the Jews all him Jehova nd Hindus call him by many names and worship him in different form and you Muslims too have 99 names for Allah. May be this might enlighten you.

 

SWAMI RAMA TIRTHA’S MEETING WITH THE MUSLIMS

This article first appeared in the Winter 2002

edition of Self-Knowledge Journal

When Swami Rama Tirtha returned from his years in America, his fame as a man of God became widely recognized in India. He had demonstrated his power to appeal to those brought up in a completely different tradition and had shown the validity of his vision of truth outside the Indian tradition. Like Shri Dada before him, his teachings were universal in scope. In the hands of both these enlightened Jnanis the spiritual teaching had become a means of reconciling and uniting those of all faiths rather than a divisive force. And in India, as in Europe, history gave all too ample proof of the divisive potential often exerted by religion in the history of the people. In India itself the conflict between the Moslem and the Hindu traditions was a simmering cause of unrest in the two communities which had often flared up into major civil disturbances, as it was destined to do again, on a scale unprecedented hitherto, when India was given her independence after the Second World War.

There are many examples of Shri Dada’s meetings with the Christians or the Muslims in the pages of The Heart of the Eastern Mystical Teaching, but equally interesting and instructive is the account we have of the discussion between Swami Rama Tirtha and the Muslims held over two days in Lucknow in the year 1905. It provides a perfect example of the way in which the clear vision of the holy truth of non-duality can dispel the prejudices and misunderstandings of the unenlightened mind. In the course of these discussions Swami Rama was not only able to break down many of the prejudices of his Muslim questioners but also to give them a much deeper understanding of the teachings of their own religion.

 

The confrontation between prejudice and truth, and the consequent dissipation of the narrow view by the light of the universal truth, like the dissolving of the morning mist by the rising sun, was exemplified from the first moments of the meeting, when the Muslims entered the room and offered Swami Rama the traditional salutation (Adab ‘Arz). The Paramahansa responded by saying ‘OM’ in serene and peaceful tones. To this the Muslims at once took exception. They wanted to know why Rama had not returned their greeting in the same way and what was the secret reason for which he was saying OM in reply to their greeting.

 

Swami Rama answered them with great love and told them that he had no mysteries to hide and no mental reservations; plain talk (he said) was easily understandable, while complicated talk was only likely to be misunderstood. The truth was (he said) that a person can give to others only what he possesses and that Rama himself only possessed OM and that alone. That OM, which was Rama’s sole possession, represented the non-duality of Vedanta.

 

Pressed to explain what he meant, Swami Rama replied that God is really nameless, although people call him by various names such as Ishvara or Allah. Men of different faiths and persuasions feel their oneness with God by establishing some sort of relationship with him. It can be any relationship, but the truth or reality is only one. He is what he is, one without a second, indescribable and far beyond being circumscribed in words. But the ancient Rishis and Saints have called him and known him through the significant symbol OM.

 

Swami Rama went on to expound the special place of OM as a universal name of God, but the Muslims objected that they had never seen any mention of OM in their own holy scriptures and asked him (if what he said was true) whether he could quote any reference to OM in their Koran.

 

Rama replied gently: ‘Please listen to what is now being said. In the very beginning of your Koran, at the top, are three letters, alif (A), lam (L) and mim (M). Can any of you or any learned Mulawi of Islam explain what these three letters mean?’ The Moslems replied that this was a secret which Allah had kept to himself.

 

Swami Rama laughed heartily at this remark and said: ‘When God has revealed the entire Koran for the benefit of mankind, as the Muslims claim, it is very strange that he has kept its very heading a secret. No. It is not so. If you, the Muslims who put full faith in the Koran do not know the secret of the letters A, L, M, Rama will tell you what they signify. Alif, lam and mim are nothing but alif (A), wao (O) and mim (M), that is, AOM or OM.’

 

The Muslims objected that the letter L is not the same as the letter O, but Swami Rama pointed out to them that in Arabic grammar L is pronounced O when it falls between a vowel and a consonant, as in the names Shamsuddin, which is written Shamsaldin, or Nizamuddin, which is written Nizamaldin. The letter lam (L) becomes silent and gives the sound of the Arabic letter pesh (O or U). Therefore ALM is no secret; it is clearly and unambiguously OM and nothing but OM. It is Kufra, heretical or a sin, to blame God for keeping it a secret.

 

The Muslims (who did not know Arabic or the rules of its grammar) were clearly impressed by Swami Rama’s explanation, but they caught on to his use of the word ‘Kufra’, meaning sin or heresy, and asked him to explain the meaning of that word and the related word ‘Kafir’, which to a Muslim means an infidel. Swami Rama was at first unwilling to say anything about them, maintaining that they were the special words peculiar to Islam, and that as Muslims they should understand them better than any non-Muslims. But when they pressed him on it, he then said:

It would have been better if you had not put this question to Rama, because whatever he says would be according to his own notions. Rama likes neither to flatter anybody, nor to injure the feelings of anyone. Truth cannot be crushed. There is some truth in every religion. Rama is, therefore, not only a Hindu, but also a Muslim, a Christian and a Buddhist. In answer to your question Rama will speak politely and with love, but he may also have to indulge in some plain speaking, without the least intention to hurt your feelings. Rama loves all, like his own self. As such there should be nothing to hide from his own self. Dear ones, the truth is that the followers of Islam have very wrongly interpreted the words ‘Kufra’ and ‘Kafir’, and they have also made a very wrong use of these words.

 

 

Swami Rama went on to point out to them with great love that Islam literally means ‘religion of peace’, but that instead of preaching love for God seated in the heart of each man and the brotherhood of all men, the so-called leaders of Islam, on account of their superficial knowledge or ignorance, had injected a spirit of hatred and alienation into the hearts of the ignorant Muslims. As a result, the history of the Muslims testified to the fact that thousands of non-Muslims had been butchered in wholesale massacres in the name of Islam. Instead of teaching mankind how to live in peace with others, Islam had earned a bad name for itself in world history by spreading its religion by tyranny, oppression and despotism. This was because of the selfishness, love of personal gain and narrow outlook of the Muslim autocrats, intoxicated with their own domination and conquest in the name of Islam. It was all due to the wrong interpretation of the words ‘Kufra’ and ‘Kafir’.

Dear friends, [he said], the meaning of Kufra [sin or heresy] is to hide. What? To hide the truth or reality is Kufra, and he who hides the truth is Kafir [infidel]. But how does a Kafir hide the truth? He hides it behind the curtain of his Khudi or ego, which has its roots in selfishness. In other words the person who asserts his ego or selfishness as against truth is a Kafir. And what is this truth? Truth is that which remains the same, yesterday, today and forever. But truth or reality is only one. It is only God who is immortal, eternal and imperishable. Therefore the person who does not implement this truth in daily life and who instead lays stress on his ego or selfishness in his worldly dealings is as if hiding God, the truth, behind the curtain of his egoism. In other words, he remains unconcerned with God, as if there is no God for him. By such an attitude he commits Kufra and deserves to be called a Kafir.

It is very painful to note that the protagonists of Islam, due to their blind faith and bigotry, have brought a bad name to their simple and unostentatious religion, causing havoc and devastation in the world, on account of their misinterpretation and the wrong use of the words ‘Kufra’ and ‘Kafir’. According to them, a non-Muslim is a Kafir, however God-intoxicated or truly religious-minded he may be. As such, it is said that a so-called Muslim has every right to do away with a non-Muslim, if the latter does not believe in the prophet Mohammed or the Koran...as if the non-Muslim had not been made by the same God. It is also said that a Muslim will be forgiven by God for his sins just because he is a formal Muslim. All this misbelief or blind faith is against the fundamental principle of Islam.

 

It is now for you to say how reasonable, just and fair it is to preach to the ignorant Muslim masses segregation in the name of Islam, which is obviously done for political reasons with vested interests. Religion, you will concede, teaches universal love, sympathy, fellow feeling, unity, etc., and not disunity or hatred. It is, therefore, most essential for all of us, Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists and so forth, to live together with love and unity...

 

Rama regrets very much to have to say all this. But since Rama has great respect and regard for Islam due to its simplicity and direct faith in God and since he takes Muslims as his own self, he does not feel any hesitation in speaking frankly and fearlessly to his own self.

 

 

 

Swami Rama Tirtha was next asked about the Kalma, which may be called the Muslim creed. And he said that the original Kalma consisted simply of the phrase: ‘La Ilah Ill Illah’, which means ‘there is nothing but Allah or God.’ It expressed (said Swami Rama) that God is limitless. Nothing can limit his limitlessness. Nothing could be beyond God. He is everything, and everything is in him. The Koran also says that God is nearer to you than your own aorta. The interpretation of the Mulawis that it means ‘there is only one god’ is not correct; it really means that there is nothing but one omnipresent God in this universe.

 

The present Kalma has two portions. The second part is ‘Mohammed Rasool Allah’ meaning that ‘Mohammed is the prophet of God.’ Swami Rama said to the Muslims:

You may or may not agree with Rama, but it is generally felt that this portion has been added after the death of Mohammed Saheb... As you all know, Hazrat Mohammed Saheb was a very simple God-intoxicated person. He never liked ostentation and individual advertisement. He himself belonged wholly to God. And he had totally surrendered himself to him. He was all God’s. Nothing of his was separate from God. As such, he could not have allowed during his life-time his individual name or identity to be added to the original Kalma, but emphasised ‘there is nothing but Allah.’

Then again, according to Islam, God is ‘Wahduhoo-La-Sharik’, that is, he is one without any partner or sharer. How then could Hazrat Mohammed have allowed his name to be added to God, even as a friend or prophet, when God is all in all, when he is said to be limitless?... It therefore appears that the latter part of the Kalma has been added by his devotees and admirers out of their intense love for Mohammed Saheb after his death in order to perpetuate his memory, so long as Islam continues to flourish in this world.

 

 

 

Swami Rama did not try to force his views on the Muslims. He told them it did not matter whether they agreed with him or not, because he had no desire to force his ideas on anybody. Everyone had the right to act according to his own views. Rama had indicated his point of view simply because they had expressly asked him to do so.

 

The Muslims were impressed by Swami Rama Tirtha’s exposition, but they said to him:

Being a Sufi, the flight of your vision is high. Therefore you measure the life incidents of Hazrat Mohammed with the same yardstick. Our intellect may accept your version, but our hearts are reluctant to do so. As Muslims, we cannot go against what our forefathers have been telling us. You may call it blind faith, but Hazrat Mohammed deserves all our respect... You are a Sufi (Vedantin), and, as such, you may be entitled to say ‘Hamaost’ (I am He). But we have not yet been able fully to define our relation with God, as his devotees. Will it not be a sin or Kufra for us to say ‘Anal hacq’ (I am God) as the Sufis (Vedantins) do? We cannot even dare to change the present form of the Kalma.

 

 

To this Rama replies:

The truth is that Rama, being a Vedantin, is convinced that there is nothing but God and that ‘I am God, as all others are.’ The reality is only one. God is infinite. That which is infinite cannot be rendered finite by anything separate from him. He covers everything, and therefore it is not a sin to say: ‘I am God’; but it is certainly a great sin to reject the reality just to project yourself as separate from or other than God.

 

 

In this way in discussions which he had with the Muslims over two days in 1905 the holy Paramahansa demonstrated clearly the true message of the Prophet Mohammed and its identity with the essential truth of Advaita Vedanta: ‘Sarvam Khalvidam Brahman’ (Verily, all this world is nothing but a phenomenal creation of God the Absolute).

 

 

[Guest guest]

Theres Lot to Read and may take time to go through everything Completely, perhaps I see that a straight line is been bent and bent and bent to make it look like a circle!

 

Regarding Alif Laam Meem!

 

Alif Laam Meem, Ya Seen, Ha Meem, etc. are known as Al-Muqattaat i.e. the abbreviated letters. There are 29 letters in the Arabic Alphabet (if hamza and alif are considered as two letters) and there are 29 surahs i.e. chapters in the Glorious Qur'an that have the abbreviated letters prefixed to them. These abbreviated letters some times occur alone, sometimes in a combination of two letters and sometimes in a combination of three, four or five letters.

(i) Surah Ta Ha chapter 20 has Ta Ha

(ii) Surah Al Naml starting with chapter 27 has Ta Seen

(iii) Surah Ya Seen chapter 36 has Ya Seen

 

(i) Surah Ghafir or Al-Mu'min chapter 40

(ii) Surah Fussilat or Ha Meem chapter 41

(iii) Surah Al Shura chapter 42

(iv) Surah Al Zukhruf chapter 43

 

There are many like this in the Qur'an!

 

 

Of all the explanations given by various scholars, the one which is authentic and also supported by Tafsir of Ibne-Kathir, Zamakshari and Ibne-Taiymiyah is the following:

 

The human body is composed of various fundamental elements that are found in nature. Clay and dust are composed of the same fundamental elements. Yet it would be absurd to say that a human being is exactly the same as the dust.

 

We can all have access to the elements that are found in the human body, and add a few gallons of water, which is the constitution of the human body. We know the elements in the human body and yet we are at a loss when asked the secret of life.

 

Similarly the Qur'an addresses those people who reject its Divine authority. It tells them that this Qur'an, is in your own language, and over which the Arabs took pride. It is composed of the same letters that the Arabs used to express themselves most eloquently.

 

The Arabs were very proud of their language and Arabic was at its peak when the Qur'an was revealed. With the letters Alif Laam Meem, Yaa Seen, Ha-Meem, etc., (in Engllish we would say A, B, C, D) the Qur’an challenges mankind to produce a Surah at least somewhat similar to the Qur’an in beauty and elegance, if they doubt its authenticity.

 

Initially, the Qur’an challenges all the men and jinn to produce a recital like the Qur'an and adds that they would not be able to do it even if they backed each other. This challenge is mentioned in Surah Isra chapter 17 verse 88 and in Surah Tur chapter 52 verse 34.

 

Later the Qur'an repeats the challenge in Surah Hud chapter 11 verse 13 by saying produce ten surahs like it and later in Surah Yunus chapter 10 verse 38 produce one surah like it and finally the easiest challenge is given in Surah Al-Baqarah chapter 2 verses 23 and 24.

 

"And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah if your doubts are true.

 

But if ye cannot – and of a surety ye cannot – then fear the fire whose fuel is men and stones – which is prepared for those who reject faith."

[Al-Qur'an 2:23-24]

 

To compare the skill of two artisans, they must be given samples of the same raw material and their performance evaluated in performing the same task. If they are tailors they must be provided with the same fabrics. The raw materials of the Arabic language are these letters Alif Laam Meem, Ya Seen (in English it is A, B, C, D, etc.) The miraculous nature of the language of the Qur'an does not lie only in the fact that it is the Word of Allah, but also in the fact that although made up of the same letters in which the pagan Arabs took pride, it has not been rivalled.

 

The Arabs are noted for their rhetoric ability, eloquence and meaningful expression. Just as the constituents of the human body are known to us and can be obtained by us, the letters comprising the Qur'an, such as Alif Laam Meem are known to us, and used frequently to formulate words. Life cannot be created by us, even if we possess knowledge of the constituents of the human body. Similarly we cannot capture the same eloquence and beauty of expression that we find in the Qur'an, despite knowing the letters that constitute the Qu'ran. The Qur'an thus proves its Divine origin.

 

Therefore immediately after these broken letters are mentioned in the Qur'an, the following verses speak about the miracle of the Qur'an, and its authority e.g. in Surah Baqarah Chapter 2 verse 1-2:

 

"Alif Laam Meem.

This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah."

[Al-Qur'an 2:1-2]

 

And Allah knows Best!

[Kali_Daughter 0]

I have to agree with the muslim,it could be pure coincidence. It is certainly no secret that ancient Arabia had trade links throuhgout the eastern hemisphere,that artifact could just simply be a traded good.

[Guest guest]

"But The poor thing is that, the followers of other religion arent aware of their scriptures. And they worship false dieties, when only One God! WHO is the creator of everything DESERVES TO BE WORSHIPED!"

 

I see the Islamic superiority complex is much evident in your post. It's great to see how easily angry you people get! In case you didn't know Hindus worship just ONE God called Brahman, but has many other names and according to some Hindus may assume many 'forms', though it is formless in it's original state. All the 'gods' you see are just different manifestations of the ONE God. In Hinduism, God is not just the creator, but the preserver, destroyer and the souce of all that exists. Now go figure...

 

I wish muslims try to get their facts right before criticising other religions, they just keep going round and round in circles!

 

 

[maadhav 0]

A Muslim,

 

this is a kafir forum.

what you do here?

what you like about kafir Book - gita?

What is good about 1000 years of islamis' barbaric invasions in india?

 

 

[Guest guest]

because this is a "khafir" forum, non-hindus are not welcome here, or just the muslims!?

U speak of Gods power when it fits u, and grawl like a dog when a muslim comes and say sumthing, I belief that God is Allmighty and there where a plan for why the muslims where in india!!