Guest guest Report post Posted September 8, 2004 what abt the nairs? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 2, 2005 iam also from the kaimals evolution but i had brought in north when ever i use go to temple the pujaries use to ask me about the gouthra coz all in friend circle is from diff gouthras like bhadwaj, kashayap like that but as iam from kerala its difficult to find so. as you know in puja is done according to the nashatras. thank you for the giving mee the correect gouthra now i will try to find out corect details from the our family memebers bye................ adarsh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 10, 2005 well ! mind if i ask you guys one thing? Where else in India would you find a brahmin marrying into a sudra family(if karthas are sudras that is)??? Try taking this idea into north india .. There are soooo many brahmin families that married into nair families in kerala! If nairs were sudras , would this be feasible? Also the nairs had the right to enter temples pre-independence . Was this the case of other sudras in India? No! As it was quite rightly quoted 'Nairs are not a caste , they are a race'. They did all the jobs of kshatriya ( maintained armies, kalaries, owned land - in fact a definition of the kartha word in shabda taravali says as prabhu/idaprabhu) and they are classified as sudras . Nairs don't get any SC/ST reservations , you know!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 10, 2005 hi ratheesh I'm from the kanjiramparambil kartha family we are based in and around kottayam which one r u from? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 11, 2005 im from the anakottil kartha family from pattanacad i believe...where do u live now? how old r u? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 18, 2005 hi kaimals: If you refer Shabdatharavali you find the meaning as one who has power( koima ullavan), usually kaimals are found in and around central travancore area, and sparsely to central kerala( Irinjalakkuda etc).I hail from Kaimal family. kaimals were the warriors of Chempakasseri Raja( small princely state of ambalappuzha who ruled in the name of lord krisha and all took the name as Devanarayanan)unfortunately the kingdom was annexed to travancore under marthanda varma with the help of treacherous Mathoor Panikker who was the commander of Chempakasseri Raja!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 18, 2005 Ratheesh Karthas r not sudras as said by someone here. they are uppercaste people usually coming under as warriors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 23, 2005 Do you know any Karthas from Alleppey. My sister is married to a person from the Kartha family!!! He is a native of Alleppey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 24, 2005 do u know the name of the kartha family? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 26, 2005 AS FAR AS I KNOW THE KARTHA CASTE HAS OCCUPIED DIFFERANT POSITIONS AT DIFFERANT TIMES IN KERAL. WE HAD KARTHA SERVANTS BUT ONLY UPPER CASTES WERE ALLOWED IN MY ILLOM SO YOURS MUST BE AN UPPER CASTE - M NAMBOODIRI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 19, 2006 Hi Ratheesh, This is Gokul from Bangalore. I also belong to the Cheranallore Kartha Family. That is my mother's ancestral home. If you need more details about our famiy tree you could write to me at gokulkartha@indiatimes.com Regards, Gokul Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 24, 2006 what part of kerala are the cheranallore family from? ive heard of them. My family is from the cherthala/pattanacad area Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mulavelil 0 Report post Posted July 24, 2006 You may know that onlya warrior who wears a sacred thread can be called a Kshatriya. Other warriors are all considered, inspite of their vocation and status as Sudras. This is seen in Kerala (Nair), Karnataka (Naidus), Andhra (Reddys) and Maharashtra (Marathas). The Brahmins of these lands never accepted the warrior clans as Kshatriyas. Famous is an example where Marathi Brahmins refused to accept Shivajis coronation saying he was a Maratha=Sudra. In Kerala, the indegeneous Dravidian warriors were Naga migrants and were known as Cheras (Naga= Chera in TAMIL). With the coming of the Brahmins, they became the topmost people in the ladder followed by the Nagars (Later derived to Nair). However when it came to making a powerful Nair rule as king it was essential to make him wear a sacred thread as only threaded Kshatriyas may rule as kings. Hence the most powerful Nair families were taken and through Hiranyagrabha at every coronation they were made Kshatriyas. Meanwhile the remaining warriors didnt get the thread and hence they were merely called Nairs while the kings became Kshatriyas. One has to note that among the Royal families (JKshatriyas) and other Nairs, all customs and ceremonies, all practices etc are the same. Even polyandry was present among the Royals. The Rani of Attingal Gowri Parvati Bhai had three husbands. Since hindu philosophy doesnt allow any non threaded warrior to call himself a Kshatriya, and asserts that without a thread he is a Soodra, Nairs were also called Sudra and they didnt mind at all. They had power, land and prestige. They owned temples and lived in massive mansions. One more point is that if u check the records prior to the 1500s all of them mention that Nairs begin with the King and ends with menial servants who work in Brahmin and Nair houses. Nair caste includes the Varma (pure Kshatriyas), the Samantha Kshatriyas (Thampi,Nambiars, Unnithans and Valiathans), title holding nobles (Kaimal, Kartha, Menon, Pillai), Martial arts teachers (Panicker, Kurup), Illathu Nair (landlords), Swaroopi Nairs (soldiers), Vattakedan Nairs (guards of individual houses), Palichan Nairs (armed palanquin bearers) and it ends at semi Nair semi sudra castes like Vilakithala, Chakalla etc. The Nairs were the aristocracy of the land. Brahmins married Nair ladies. Nair ladies were known for their beauty in the past. Most of the higher caste Nairs were fairer than the Brahmins themselves. The only point i wish to make here is that in south India and north india the caste holding is extremely different. North India there are Brahmins, Kshatriyas , Vaisyas and Sudras. In Kerala there are Namboodiris (who were higher than other Brahmins) and remaining all were Sudras (the Namboodiris didnt eat even with Royals) and perhaps u dont know, all texts except the Keralolpathi (written by Namboodiris) mention that the Namboodiris are descended from Fishermen whom Parasurama converted. So one can say that their history isnt all so clear either. And Arya doesnt mean fair skin. In the past a Namboodiri cpuld be a Nair and vice versa. There as so many families of Namboodiris who trace origin to Nairs and vice versa. another important aspect of Kerala is that some of the artisan Avarna castes like a few special carpenters are dwija and wear the sacred thread. Similarly while Hinduism consideres people of other religios as mlechas or lowest caste, in Kerala all articles passing into a temple right from the food of the priests to the milk, ghee etc had to be 'purified' by the touch of a marthoma christian. Namboodiris are sposed to be indias most orthodox brahmins. the Manusmriti says that if a Brahmin ever has a child through a Sudra, he and his entire family is Sudra. But then would the orthodox Namboodiris marry Nairs if they were really Sudras in the true sense of the word? there are many peculiarities in Kerala. Savarna means non sudra and Nairs are savarna. at the same time Brahmins insist they are sudra too. wht sense does it make? similarly there was unapproachability in Kerala. Nair was the only caste that coudl approach a Namboodiri Brahmin but not touch him. There were low subcastes like Chakalla and Vilakithala which were Savarna but not pure Nairs who had to maintain a distance of 6 feet from other Nairs and 12 feet from a Namboodiri. On top of this the Brahmin definition of Nairs is as "progeny of Brahman boys and Rakshasa and Gandharva women". So what does that make the Nairs? a mixed semi aryan and semi dravidian race? iI have consulted scholars on these topics and they say that the Keralolpathi is a 15th century book and cannot be relied on at all. He says that both Namboodiri and aNair were Sthana Perus or positions. Anybody who studied the Vedas was called Namboodiri while anyone attached with military was a Nair. He says that there were indeed migrant Brahmins who came to Kerala but they converted native people to Brahminsim too. He also adds that just like a doctor would want his son to be a doctor only, a Namboodiri would prefer his son to become a Namboodiri and a Nair would want his son as a warrior as well. Infact later, after the 1500s when the Namboodiris took to arms instead to assuming Nair title they took another title, Nampi which became a subcaste of warrior Namboodiris. As said before Samanthans like Unnithans and nobles like Karthas ruled as governers and district chiefs. I am an Unnithan and we claim our paternal descent from Kayamkulam Royal Family. Our main family Kaduvinal Unnithan ruled over 14 Villages in Cheriyanadu. Such was the power wielded by Nairs and specially the aristocracy. I am not sure about Karthas though. But i have read that they are nobles who recieve the said title with a fiefdom to rule after special services to the Kings. Panicker was recieved as an ambiguous title to all Nairs, Ezhavasc (Avarna) and also Christians who commanded imperial armies. But my grandmother says kartha came from 'Karthavu' which, like Achan, means Lord. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 27, 2006 I have heard that Menons were Devadasis. But u say they are nobles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mulavelil 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2006 LOOK!!! LOOK!!! WHAT PEOPLE COME UP WITH!!!! 'MENONS WERE DEVADASIS' TRY SUGGESTING THAT TO ONE.....MAD...THTS Y I SAY NORTH INDIAN SOCIAL STRATIFICATION AND SOUTH INDIAN SYSTEMS ARE TOTALY DIFFERENT....MAD!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 1, 2006 sweet manu!!! how u doing? the people of YNG is missing the hijada Manu, who renamed himself as gayatri namboodiri. ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mulavelil 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2006 sweet manu!!! how u doing? the people of YNG is missing the hijada Manu, who renamed himself as gayatri namboodiri. ) hiya....wel ur not really missing manu..coz manus still in YNG...this time yet another name....sorry for bursting ur bubble.....hehe........and u need to better ur english....u never say the people of YNG 'is'....its 'are'..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 1, 2006 looks like u guys are having a personal fight here....please....this is a public forum..not for your mere fights.... karthas are nobles....my family is one and we were the govereners of munjanad for the local rajah... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
