buddhism and compassion

[bodhichitta 0]

Buddhist doctrine centers around the idea of having compassion for all sentient beings. Those who take the bodhisattva vow, vow to take birth in the material world to enlighten others until samsara ends. Is there comparable doctrine in Vaishnava thought? Please include sastric reference.

[Guest guest]

One thing that impresses me most in Buddhism is the loving kindness and compassion, qualities that the Buddha himself manifested.

 

Bhakthi according to the Alwars is not confined to the worship God or singing devotional songs but practising in daily life the principle of LOVE ALL SERVE ALL, they practiced to the message in Bhagavad Gita Chapter 12 text 13,

 

"advesta sarva bhutanam maitrah karuna eva ca nirmamo nirahamkarah sam dukha sukha kshami"

 

One who does not hate any species of creation, one who is kind compassionate, One who is humble and treats joy and sorrow alike - he alone is my devotee.

 

The Alvars altruism and compassion is revealed in every decad of the Divya Prabandham which ends with a Phala sruti verse, that gives the benefits that accrue from chanting or hearing the work.

 

One of the principle concepts preached by Sri vaisnavism acaryas is the strong emphasis on "Loka sangraha" i.e. working for the welfare of all sentient beings.

 

Loka sangraha is based on the rational that all sentient beings have an innate desire to be happy and overcome suffering. They have the natural right to fulfil this fundamental aspiration. On the recognition of this equality and commonality, one develops affinity and closeness

 

Ramanuja's compassion was exhibited when he publicly disclosed the maha mantra to all at Tirukottiyur. He was prepared to perish in hell for breaking his promise to his guru - revealing the mantra to uninitiated audience.

 

Pillai Lokacarya exhibited his compassion for mankind in his work, Sri Vacana Bhusam (text - 222 to 233)

 

Buddha did not teach anything new what ever he taught existed in Hindu dharma.

 

Both Ramanuja and Buddha were the two greatest reformers of India.

Buddha was successful because He worked outside the vedic system - rejecting the vedas' authority and giving his system a new identity - Buddhism.

 

Ramanuja worked within the vedic system, and ultimately this system succumbed to the corruption of the vedic brahmins (e.g caste system).

 

I conclude by sharing some of the sri vaisnava prayers recited daily

 

Universal prayer

 

svasti prajabhya paripalayantam

nyayena margena mahi mahisah

go brahmanebhyo subham astu nityam

lokah samasta suhino bhavantu

 

May all the citizens enjoy well being, may the administrators protect them and walk in the path of justice, may the whole universe all spiritual aspirants have perpetual auspiciousness, may all in the world be happy

 

kale varsatu parjanyah prthivi sasya salini

desoksyam ksobha rahito brahmanah santu nirbhayah

 

May all beings be happy and may the earth yield its produce in abundance, may this country be free from disturbance and may the righteous be free from fear

 

Prayer for the development of altruistic intent

 

naham kanksaye svargam na rajyam ca punar bhavam

kanksaye duhka taptanam praninam arthi nasanam

 

O Lord ! I do not desire heaven, or neither regal happiness nor the auspicious birth, all I desire is that all beings that are tormented by suffering may be free from the cause of their suffering

 

na kamayeham gatim isvarat param

astarddhi yuktam apunar bhavam va

artim prapayekila deha bhajam

antah sthito yena bhavanty aduhkhah

(Srimad Bhagavatam 9:21:12)

 

I do not ask for prosperity celestial pleasure nor liberation from the Lord., all I ask is that I may relieved the suffering of all beings by identifying with their misery

 

hari om tat sat

 

 

[Guest guest]

<< Those who take the bodhisattva vow, vow to take birth in the material world to enlighten others until samsara ends. >>

 

narad, the youngest son of brahma is one of the greatest devotee of vishnu. he just roams aroun and checke if people have problems due to lack of god consciousness. if so, he spreads KC. prabhypada and his disciples and other vaishanvas do the same. they prctice, and they preach.

 

krishna ingita ch. 18 also encourages to spread KC.

 

when yodisthir was passing thru hell on his way to haven, all of a sudden the crying and moaning sounds coming from the hell stopped. so, he asked vishnudutas what happened.

they said him that because he, a pure soul, is present there, the hell dwellers feel relief from the pain and suffering.

 

suddenly, yodhisthri said: "i do not want to go to haven. I would stay here."

 

dutas: why? this is hell, and you are qualified for haven.

 

yudhisthir: well, if millions of souls sufffering in hell are getting relief just due to my presence here, then let me sufffer in hell if that frees them from suffering.

 

this his how vaishnavas think.

there are many bhajans sung by great devotees giving this message.

 

jai sri krishna! -madhav

 

[bodhichitta 0]

Doesn't Ramanuja teach in a time period after the advent of the Buddha(600 BC)? Can you reference any vedic teaching that is definitely prior to Buddha's teachings on dharma?

[bodhichitta 0]

Hello? I just asked a loaded question a long time ago. Aren't there any pre-Buddha references in vaishnavism regarding compassion. Aren't there any scholars or at least fanatics out there? It looks like Mahaprabhu's message was borrowed from the Buddha and I just proved it by asking a question that nobody can answer. We might as well shut down the forum and become buddhist.

[mud 0]

I guess I don't follow your question. What specifically are you asking about compassion? Are you talking about the bodhisattva vow specifically? Is there something similar in Vaishnava doctrine before the Buddha?

 

Maybe not doctrinized specifically with sastric reference, but the general idea of the avataras coming down serves two purposes. 1. The pleasure of the Lord. 2. Compassion on the jivas in samsara. These avataras also include shaktyavesa, jivas, doing the Lord's bidding.

 

In the Vaishnava theology the Buddha is considered an avatara also.

 

How is Mahaprabhu's message borrowed from the Buddha? What part of his message are you referring to?

[bodhichitta 0]

Okay. The timeline goes like this...buddha appears 600 bc and propounds a philosophy to end suffering for all sentient beings until samsara ends. Mahaprabhu comes in 1500 ad to say some similar message of alleviating suffering. So we see who was first. I suppose if the vedas are taken into account, this information of avatars would refer to times quite ancient, but in the modern record Buddhas seems like the oldest avatar to propound such philsophy.

[mud 0]

I tend to think that all religions aim to end the suffering of all humanity for all time. Their plan to do that varies. Mahaprabhu's teaching of how to do that varies from the Buddha's. I'm not sure why it matters who was oldest.

 

The thing I think is most significant about the vedic teaching is that the teachings to end suffering are updated through time. That's why different avatara's continue to descend to help enlighten people.

[Tirisilex 0]

According to all my Books the Buddha appeared around 500 BC not 600 BC. Confucius taught compassion in China around 550 BC. Mahavira the founder of Jainism also appeared around 500 BC. Jainism founded Ahimsa (Non-Violence). Jainist compassion is outstanding where as they even show compassion towards plantlife. Not only do they abstain from meat but, they wont eat a plant food that will kill a plant. They live to minimize any kind suffering to others. To say compassion originated from the Buddha is ubsurd. There have been many unknown people over the millenia that have been compassionate. You can find them as far back as Ancient Egypt and Sumeria (2500 BC)

 

I'm curious as to what your purpose is here. Are you looking for knowledge or are you looking to convert?

A while back the Dalai Lama had made a statement against the idea of preaching to convert others to another religion. Christians do this alot as do other religous groups. This kind of attitude causes aggressive reactions, anger and hatred. A Buddhist should never try to convert someone to be a follower. A Buddhist should try to help others and only present Dharma if said people show interest.. It's never to be pushed.

[bodhichitta 0]

No my goal is not to convert. I am simply asking questions. If you notice, I asked things in a spirit of inquiry to learn more from others about how compassion teachings have unfolded in the world. I wasn't getting responses, so I got fiesty and asked in a challenging way. Then I got responses.

I hadn't claimed in an ubsurd way that compassion comes from buddhism. If you read my question through, I was simply comparing the fullness of the bodhisattva vow to other compassion messages and making note of chronology. To some degree, where teachings came first, I think is important because it shows us how the message evolves as it gets borrowed from culture to culture. I am sure compassion was taught in Egyptian culture, but then in 500 BC, a realized Buddha gained direct realization of how to distibute compassion in a the fullest way possible. That is significant. No one needs to have a vilent reaction to my giving a statement based on chronolgy lest ye be threatened by truth that rocks the boat. It always is threatening to think we aren't the first ones when we thought so for so long. Now that I am studying Buddhism, it is quite amazing to see that vaishnavism has covered Buddha's teaching very cleverly by claiming him to be a minute avatar in a long succession. His quite clear propoundments of doctrine are heavily discredited. I don't see why if his teachings were so powerful and clear at such an early time. As for the Jains, jsut becasue they don't eat certain vegetables I don't think they surpasss Buddhism on compassion doctrine. The real power in Buddhism comes from the elaborate prayers and exact understanding of the conventional nature of things and the teaching on emptiness.

Sorry if you think I offend anyone by sharing knowledge that I have acquired and submitting it to you all for analysis so i can find truth.

 

om mani padme hum

[Tirisilex 0]

You said:

 

It looks like Mahaprabhu's message was borrowed from the Buddha and I just proved it by asking a question that nobody can answer. We might as well shut down the forum and become buddhist.

 

********************************************************

 

It was this statement that gave the feel that you were trying to convert.

[Guest guest]

Dear Tirisilex,

I feel pretty clear why you thought I was trying to convert. I was clear before you copied and pasted my words to prove your point.

My pont was this: (copied from my post to you)

I wasn't getting responses, so I got fiesty and asked in a challenging way. Then I got responses.

 

And then I apologized for giving the impression. There is no conversion anyway, I am not a Buddhist. I am studying it, which I have been upfront about. I find nothing wrong in using logic of history to discern things. Hopefully you are satisfied, and sorry to offend...Buddha Bless

 

 

[mud 0]

Okay, I originally got the same feeling as tirisilex about your post. Thanks for clarifying your point. I'm just wondering when you say "I find nothing wrong in using logic of history to discern things." what that means. I don't know of a logic of history. To me, if something makes sense, the time it was spoken, before or after other philosophy is completely irrelevant. I've experienced this too much in the Vaishnava tradition where followers preach that they have the oldest philosophy/religion. Besides being an endlessly debatable point, impossible to prove, WHY does it matter? I find it lends no more authority.

[Guest guest]

This is absurdly stupid argument. Every human has an innate need to be loved and to love. To think that only Buddha taught compassion in India and then to say that all of these people become Buddhists is a mark of a FANATIC mind.

 

and then this joker says that he did that to elicit answers.

[bodhichitta 0]

Dear sir,

I had not said Buddha was the only one to spread compassion. I don't know why you have misread. I also explained why I made such a bold challenge and apologized if I offended anyone.

You have such a strong reaction from my stateements. That is usually the sign of someone whose faith is not strong so you must strengthen it by insulting others. You are trying to intimidate me from participation even though I had written that I am intereseted in learning. Please have some compassion. Either that or you have a very disturbed mind. I am sorry to have brought you disturbance. I hope you do not stay in that realm.

 

Om mani padme hum

[Guest guest]

Yet at one point or another the compassion is considered a hindrence as is the attachment to old orders, ancient ways, spiritual doctrines, etc. In relationship to the chakras ( www.vedicshamansim.com/index27.html there is a knot called the knot of karuna that if not untied or unraveled hinders the attainment of higher states of enlightenment. In the subtle energy bodies it is located just above the anahata chakra.

 

The state of enlightenment of a Buddha is kind of a middle of the road state-not the highest or the lowest.

 

It is not that there is no God it is just often those experiencing the state of enlightenment of a Buddha merely are not god realized. The knot of karuna comes into play.

 

So as the saying goes:

If you see Buddha walking down the road, kill him.

 

[Guest guest]

With all due respect to his holiness then consider why the Tibetan monks are at just about every major New Age expo or psychic fair if it is not a communal (meaning it must always have new recruits to survive-much like Christianity) or missionary religion.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear guest,

I think Tiri's point was that Buddhism's goal is not to convert someone's faith from one thing to buddhism. The Dalai Lama has said in his books, Buddhism can help other people in their own religion. At a new age fair, people are looking for a religion so for monks to be there makes sense as a symptom of compassion to free new age hearts from suffering.

 

How's that?

[Tirisilex 0]

Yes your correct.. For monks to be at a fair is fine.. People at a fair are looking for spiritual things. You wont find a Buddhist going door to door (Like a Jehovah Witness) to convert people to their beliefs.