Guest guest Report post Posted February 2, 2006 Swaminarayans don't have scriptural evidence? Caitanyites use mantras only from sastra? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 2, 2006 What I find peculiar about Swaminarayan is the rumors I hear about him being the source of Krishna and Ram. Where does he say he is? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 2, 2006 REFUTATION: There are many evidences to prove the divinity of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. First we will present those statements of sastra which are from sruti, and then those from the Puranas and other Vedic literatures. itotham krta sannyaso'vatarisyami sa-guno nirvedo niskamo bhu-girvanas tira-atho' lakanandayah kalau catuh-sahasrabdhopari panca-sahasrabhyantare gaura-varno dirghangah sarva-laksana-yukta isvara- prarthito nija-rasasvado bhakta-rupo misrakhyo vidita-yogah syam I will descend on the earth after the passage of four thousand years in the Kali-Age, and before the passsage of five thousand years. I will come on the earth on the bank of the Ganges,. I will be a tall and saintly brahmana devotee. I will have all the auspicious symptoms of an exalted person. I will exhibit renunciation. I will have all auspicious signs. I will be a devotee, practicing bhakti-yoga. I will taste the rasa of My own devotional service. (Atharva Veda) saptame gaura-varna-visnor ity aena sva-saktya caikyam etya pratar avatirya saha svaih sva-manum siksayati In the seventh manvantara, in the beginning of the Kali-Yuga, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will, accompanied by His own associates, descend in a golden form to the earth. He will teach the chanting of His own names. (Atharva-Veda Purusa-Bodhini-Upanisad 8) tathaham krta sannyaso bhu-girvano 'vatarisye tire'lakanandayah punah punah isvara-prarthitah sa- parivaro niralambo nirdhuteh kali-kalmasa-kavalita- janavalambanaya I shall come to the earth, accompanied by My associates, in a place by the bank of the Ganges. I will advent to save the people who are afflicted and devoured by the sins of the age of Kali. I will manifest as an avadhuta Brahmana sannyasi. (Sama Veda) mahan prabhur vai purusah sattvasyaisa pravartakah su-nirmalam imam praptim isano jyotir avyayah The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Mahaprabhu, who disseminates transcendental enlightenment. Just to be in touch with Him is to be in contact with the indestructible Brahmajyoti. (Svetasvatara Upanisad 3.12) yada pasyah pasyate rukma-varnam kartaram isam purusam brahma-yonim One who sees that golden-colored Personality of Godhead, the Supreme Lord, the supreme actor, who is the source of the Supreme Brahman, is liberated. (Mundaka Upanisad 3.1.3) asan varnas trayo hyasya grhnato’nuygam tanuh suklo raktastatha pita idanim krsnatam gatah "This boy Krsna, has three other colors: white, red and yellow as He appears in different ages. Now, in this Dvapara-yuga, He has appeared in a transcendental blackish color." (Srimad Bhagavatam 10.8.13) dhyeyam sada paribhava-ghnam abhista-doham tirthaspadam siva-virinci-nutam saranyam bhrtyarti-ham pranata-pala bhavabdhi-potam vande maha-purusa te caranaravindam We offer our respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of Him, the Lord, upon whom one should always meditate. He destroys insults to His devotees. He removes the distresses of His devotees and satisfies their desires. He, the abode of all holy places and the shelter of all sages, is worshipable by Lord Siva and Lord Brahma. He is the boat of the demigods for crossing the ocean of birth and death. (Srimad Bhagavatam. 11.5.33) tyaktva sudustyaja-surepsita-rajya-laksmim dharmistha arya-vacasa yad agad aranyam maya-mrgam dayitayepsitam anvadhavad vande maha-purusa te caranaravindam "We offer our respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of the Lord, upon whom one should always meditate. He left His householder life, leaving aside His eternal consort, whom even the denizens of heaven adore. He went into the forest to deliver the fallen souls, who are put into illusion by material energy." (Srimad Bhagavatam. 11.5.34) krsna varnam tvisa krsnam sangopangastra parsadam yajnaih sankirtanam-prayair yajanti hi sumedhasah "In the age of Kali, Krsna appears in a golden form, chanting the two syllables krs-na. He descends along with His weapons, saktis, limbs, and eternal confidential associates. Those with intelligence worship Him with the sankirtana yajna. (1) (Srimad Bhagavatam 11.5.32) ittham nr-tiryag-rsi-deva-jhasavatarair lokan vibhavayasi hamsi jagat-pratipan dharmam maha-purusa pasi yuganuvrttam channah kalau yad abhavas tri-yugo ’tha sa tvam "My Lord, You kill all the enemies of the world in Your multifarious incarnations in the families of men, animals, demigods, rsis, aquatics and so on. Thus You illuminate the worlds with transcendental knowledge. In the Age of Kali, O Mahapurusa, You sometimes appear in a covered incarnation. Therefore You are known as Tri-yuga [one who appears in only three yugas]." (Srimad Bhagavatam. 7.9.38) aham eva dvija-srestha nityam pracchana-vigrahah bhagavad-bhakta-rupena lokan raksami sarvada "O best of the brahmanas, My disguised form is eternal. In this way, with My own form hidden from ordinary sight I take the form of a devotee and appear among the people in general in order to establish and protect religious principles." (Adi Purana) aham eva kvacid brahman sannyasa asramam asritah hari bhaktim grahayami kalau papa-hatan naran ‘O Brahmana, I occasionally take the sannyasa asrama in an attempt to bring the fallen people of Kali Yuga to take up the path of bhakti or devotional service to Lord Krsna. (Upa-purana) kalina dahyamanam uddhararaya tanu-bhrtam janma prathama sandhyayam bhavisyati dvijalaye The Supreme Person will appear in the first part of the age of Kali. He will appear in the home of a brahmana to save the embodied conditioned souls burning in the troubles of Kali-Yuga. (Kurma-Purana) kalina dakyamananam paritranaya tanu-bhrtam janma prathama sandhyayam karisyami dvijatisu aham purno bhavisyami yuga-sandhyau visesatah mayapure navadvipe bhavisyami saci sutah kaleh prathama sandhyayam lakshmi- kanto bhavisyati daru-brahma-samipa-sthah sannyasi gaura-vigrahah In the first part of the age of Kali, I will come among the brahmanas to save the fallen souls, who are being burned by the troubles of the age of Kali. I will take birth as the son of Saci, in Navadvipa-Mayapura.. I will come in my complete spiritual form in the first part of Kali-Yuga. In the first part of Kali-Yuga, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will come in a gold-like form. First He will become the husband of Laksmi (Srimati Laksmi Devi, Lord Caitanya's first wife). Then He will become a sannyasi, near Lord Jagannatha who will appear in a divine wooden form. (Garuda-Purana) satye daitya-kuladhi-nasa-samaye simhordhva-martyakrtis tretayam dasa-kandharam paribhavan rameti namakrtih gopalan paripalayan vraja-pure bharam haran dvapare gaurangah priya-kirtanah kali-yuge caitanya-nama prabhuh "The Supreme Personality of Godhead who in the Satya-yuga appeared as a half-man, half-lion to cure a terrible disease that had ravaged the daityas, and who in the Treta-yuga appeared as a person named Rama (Lord Ramacandra), a person who defeated the ten- headed Demon Ravana, and who in the Dvapara-yuga removed the earth's burden, and protected the Gopa (cowherd men) people of Vraja-pura, will appear again in the Kali-yuga. His form will be golden, He will delight in chanting the Lord's holy names, and His name will be Caitanya." (Nrsimha Purana) yatrayogesvarah saksad yogi-cintyo janardanah caitanya vapur aste vai sandranandatmakah kaleh prathama-sandhyayam gaurangotham mahi-tale bhagirathi-tate ramye bhavisyami saci-sutah The Supreme Personality, Janardana, who is the object of the yogis' meditation, who saves the devotees from various sufferings, and who is the master of all yogic practices, who is always full of divine transcendental ecstasy and bliss, will advent in His own divine form of Sri Caitanya. I shall appear on this earth in the first part of Kali-yuga in a beautiful place on the bank of the Bhagirathi. I shall have a golden form, and I shall take birth as the son of Saci. (Padma-Purana) aham eva kalau vipra nityam prachanna-vigrahah bhavavad-bhakta-rupena lokan raksami sarvada divija bhuvi jayadhvam jayadhvam bhakta rupinah kalau sankirtana rambhe bhavisyami saci-sutah aham eva dvija-srestho nityam pracchanna-vigrahah bhagavad-bhakta-rupena lokam raksami sarvada O Vipra, in the age of Kali, I will come disguised as a devotee and I will save all the worlds. O Divija (demigods), please come and advent as devotees on this earth in the age of Kali-yuga. I will incarnate as the son of Saci to inaugurate the congregational chanting of the name of Krsna. I shall advent in the form of a brahmana devotee and I shall hide my factual identity. I shall deliver all the worlds. (Narada Purana) kaleh prathama sandhyayam gaurangotham mahi-tale bhagirathi-tate bhumni bhavisyami saci-sutah I will reveal my eternal golden form in the first part of Kali-yuga. I will advent on the earth on the bank of the Bhagirathi. (Brahma-Purana) anandasru-kala-roma harsa-purnam tapo-dhana sarve mama eva draksyanti kalau sannyasa-rupinam O austere sage, you should know that in the age of Kali, everyone will see my transcendental form as a sannyasi. I will be exhibiting symptoms of ecstasy like shedding tears of bliss and hairs standing in ecstasy. (Bhavisya-Purana) prasantatma lamba-kanthas gaurangas ca suravrtah The Supreme Personality of Godhead will come in a golden form, full of peace, and a beautiful long neck. He will be surrounded by many saintly devotees. (Agni-Purana) mundo gaurah su-dirghangas tri-srotas-tira-sambhavah dayaluh kirtana-grahi bhavisyami kalau-yuge In the age of Kali, I shall advent where the three rivers meet. I shall have a shaven head. I shall have a golden complexion. I will be very kind and always chant the holy name of Krsna. (Matsya-Purana) golokam ca parityajya lokanam trana-karanat kalau gauranga-rupena lila-lavanya-vigrahah In the Kali-Yuga, I will leave Goloka and, to save the people of the world, I will become the handsome and playful Lord Gauranga. (Markandeya-Purana) aham eva dvija-srestho lila-pracurya-vigrahah bhagavad-bhakta-rupena lokan raksami sarvada I shall come as the best of the brahmanas. I will exhibit many pastimes in the form of a devotee. I shall deliver the people of the world. (Varaha-Purana) kali-ghora-tamas-channat sarvan acara varjitan sacigarbhe ca sambhuya tarayisyami narada O Narada Muni, I will take birth in the womb of Saci. I shall save the people, who will give up all proper good conduct, from the terrible darkness of the age of Kali-Yuga. (Vamana-Purana) paurnamasyam phalgunasya phalguni-rksa-yogatah bhavisye gaura-rupena saci-garbhe purandarat svarnadi-tiram asthaya navadvipe janasraye tatra dvija-kulam prapto bhavisyami janalaye bhakti-yoga-pradanaya lokasyanugrahaya ca sannyas-rupam asthaya krsna-caitanya-nama-dhrk tena lokasya nistaras tat kurudhvam mamajnaya dharitri bhavita cabhir mayaiva dvija-dehina I shall advent in the month of Phalguna, when the star Phalguni is conjoined with the full moon. I shall incarnate in a golden complexion in the womb of Saci and Purandara Misra. I will be born in the city of Navadvipa, on the Ganges' shore, in a Brahmana's family. I shall take the renounced order of life (sannyasa) and show kindness to the people in general and engage them in bhakti. I will be known as Sri Krsna Chaitanya. All of you should follow My order and deliver the people of the world. I shall appear as a Brahmana. I shall make this earth fearless. (Vayu-Purana) suddho gaurah-su-dirghango ganga-tira-samudbhavah dayaluh-kirtana-grahi bhavisyami kalau yuge In the age of Kali-yuga, I shall come in a place on the bank of the Ganges. I will be very pure, have a fair complexion, and be very tall and chant the holy names of Krsna. (Vayu-Purana) kalau sankirtanarambhe bhavisyami saci-sutah "In the Age of Kali when the sankirtana movement is inaugurated, I shall descend as the son of Sacidevi." (Vayu Purana). suvarna-varno hemango varangas-candanangadi "He appears in a golden form, His limbs are the complexion of molten gold. His body is extremely beautiful and decorated with sandalwood pulp." (Mahabharata, Visnu Sahasranama) sannyasa-krcchamah santo nistha santi-parayanah "He accepts sannyasa and shows equanimity. He is peaceful. His mind is always fixed and He performs chanting." (Mahabharata, Visnu Sahasranama) svarnadi-tiram asritya navadvipe dvijalaye sampradatum bhakti-yogam lokasyanugrahaya ca sa eva bhagavan krmo radhika-prana-vallabhah srsty-adau sa jagannatho gaura asin mahesvari avatirno bhavisyami kalau-nija-ganaih saha saci-garbhe navadvipe svardhuni-parivarite aprakasyam idam guhyam na prakasyam bahir mukhe bhaktavataram bhaktakhyam bhaktam bhakti-pradam svayam man-maya-mohitah kecin na jnasyanto bahir-mokhah jnasyanti mad-bhakti-yuktah sadhavo-nyasinotmalah krmavatara-kale-yah striyo ye purusah priyah kalau te'vatarisyanti sridama-subaladayah catuh-sasti-mahantas te gopa dvadasa balakah caitanyera simhera... dharma-samsthapanarthay a viharisyami tair aham kale nastam bhakti-patham sthapayisyamy aham punah gacchantu bhuvi te putrah jayantam bhakta-rupinah dharma-samsthapanam kale kurvantu te mamajnaya krsnas caitanya-gaurango gauracandrah saci-sutah prabhur gauro gaura-harir namani-bhakti-dani me To show mercy to the people and give them devotional service, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will appear in a Brahmana's home in Navadvipa by the Ganges's shore. The Supreme Person, Sri Krsna Himself, who is the life of Srimati Radharani, and is the Lord of the universe in creation, rnaintenance, and annihilation, appears as Gaura, O Mahesvari. In Kali-yuga, I will descend to the earth with My associates. In Navadvipa, which is surrounded by the Ganges, I will take birth in Saci-devi 's womb. They who are bewildered by My illusory potency will not understand the great secret of the appearance in this world of Me in My personal form, in My form as the incarnation of devotion, in My form as the incarnation of a devotee, in My form bearing the name of a devotee, in My form as a devotee, and in My form as the giver of devotional service. This secret is not to be revealed to them. Only the saintly, pure, renounced devotees, diligently engaged in My devotional service, will be able to understand Me in these five forms. My dear male and female associates, headed by Sridama and Subala, who came to this world at the time of My advent as Lord Krsna, will come again during the Kali-yuga. The Gopas will become the sixty-four mahantas and the twelve gopalas. To establish the truth of religion, I will enjoy many pastimes with them. In this way I will again reveal the path of devotional service, which has been destroyed in the course of time. My sons should also descend to the earth, assume the forms of devotees, and, by My order, also work to re-establish the principles of true religion. At this time My names will be: Krsna Chaitanya, Gauranga, Gauracandra, Sacisuta, Mahaprabhu, Gaura and Gaurahari. Chanting these names will bring devotion to Me. (Ananta-Samhita) punya-ksetre navadvipe bhavisyami saci-sutah. "I shall appear in the holy land of Navadvipa as the son of Sacidevi." (Krsna-yamala-Tantra) atha vaham dharadhame bhutva mad-bhakta-rupa-dhrk mayayam ca bhavisyami kalau sankirtanagame "Sometimes I personally appear on the surface of the world in the garb of a devotee. Specifically, I appear as the son of Saci in Kali-yuga to start the sankirtana movement." (Brahma-yamala Tantra) Source: http://www.gosai.com/dvaita/madhvacarya/Caitanya.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 2, 2006 Q: Why does Bhagwan Swaminarayan decide to come to earth? A: There is a very renowned line in the Bhagwat Geeta, which goes as follows: "When there is a fall in Dharma (righteousness) and a rise in Adharma (non-righteousness), Shree Hari will take a human form on this earth in order to protect the good, destroy evil and establish Dharma." This is evident from the Avtars (incarnations) that have taken place over the years. Swaminarayan Bhagwan had to take birth in Kali-Yug (the darkest of the 4 ages of time), as evil and atrocities had reached levels none could imagine. Religion was on the verge of being phased out by such evil. Only the supreme Himself could remove this level of immorality. Also this was when the time had come for Him to show the world the greatest form of dharma. -- Q: Why Chaitra Sud Navmi - Ram Navmi as the selected time of birth? A: Ram Bhagwan manifested on this date in Ayodhya, close by to Chhapiya. He was the epitome of the ideal son, brother, father and husband, and in retrospect, the ideal devotee. He too had practised in his time great religious duty in both letter and spirit. It was a pleasant coincidence that Bhagwan manifested Himself on the very same day. Also at the time, the evil demon Kalidatt was causing great upset amongst villagers, only Bhagwan Himself could rid this and many other forms of evil at the time. -- Q: Why did he choose Dharmadev and Bhaktimata as his parents? A: This was a Brahmin family who were very religious and had an essence of single minded devotion to Lord Krishna. Dharma Dev and Bhakti Mata were also the parents of Shree Nar-Narayan. In addition to this, Bhagwan Swaminarayan had told Dharma Dev many millions of years ago that He would be born into his family. This was all predestined and line with fate, as during the first Satya Yug, Dharma Dev and Bhakti Mata had performed a great penance to please the Lord. The Lord Supreme was to take birth as their son to reward this penance. If that was not enough, the Scriptures proclaim that wherever Dharma and Bhakti (devotion) are together, Bhagwan himself will also be present. -- Q: Why did Bhagwan Swaminarayan go through the process of childhood and carry out miracles at a young age? A: In the case of childhood, the only way children and adults alike will accept Ghanshyam, is by seeing that he is just like them. He cries and plays in the same way normal children do and he is disciplined by His parents in the same way. He descended as a human and so had to live like one. All His leelas had a moral behind them. He had to teach these morals in the simplest of ways and as soon as possible. -- Q: Why did he choose to do a Van Vichran (holy pilgrimage of India) and take up a vow of celibacy? A: Whilst in the forest, Bhagwan Swaminarayan did severe forms of tap (penance) and braved the extreme elements. He suffered pain like normal people and bled in the same way. Bhagwan Swaminarayan wanted to show that penance and detachment is achievable by anybody. Also this is tied in with the reason for His appearance on earth – To destroy evil and to re-establish Dharma. During Van Vicharan, Shree Nilkanth Varni visited the holy places and cleansed them of the evil that polluted them as a result of the Kali-Yug. -- Q: Bhagwan Swaminarayan was a celibate. Then how could he preach to women? A: Such was the mind of Sahajanand Swami, that He was not strayed. He was not at all affected by internal enemies such as kaama (lust), krodh (anger, lobh (greed). In fact this was the very question Bhagwan Swaminarayan asked Ramanand Swami when He was chosen as a successor, and was the very reason Ramanand Swami had appointed him. -- Q: Why did he decide to go back to Akshardham when he did? A: For Bhagwan Swaminarayan, his work was completed. He had re-introduced dharma and changed the way people lived, by enlightening them with His true form. He felt it was the right time to leave the sampraday under the influence of the three resolves he had established. 1. An Acharyaship, with two highly qualified leaders of the Dharmakul to run the sampraday. 2. Mandirs, for his followers to practice their Dharma and Bhakti. 3. Shastras for his followers to further themselves in knowledge. These three resolves form the doors to Akshardham. -- Q: Why is Swaminarayan Bhagwan physically himself so great? A: He is so small that He can fit inside the Jiva, which is smaller than an atom, and resides inside your heart. Yet He is large enough to have millions of universes evolving within the pores of His skin. As Ghanshyam Maharaj, He defeated the biggest and strongest wrestlers, whilst also withstanding the great storms created by Kalidatt. He was able to put people into the state of Samadhi. He knew people’s wishes at the mere sight of them. -- Q: What was the great work carried out by Swaminarayan Bhagwan? A: Most importantly Bhagwan was not only able to destroy evil demons, during His short time on earth, but also the evil within a person: preventing them from being encapsulated inside a life of sin, greed and desire. He showed them how they could achieve true Moksha. In order to promulgate it, He set up an infrastructure for the continuous development and adherence to satsang. Through the establishment of Acharyas to run, organise and head the sampraday. Through the writing of the Shikshapatri, showing future generations the way in which they too can achieve the ultimate Moksha. He built nine temples with much majestic splendour. Bhagwan was able to build up a group of over 500 Santos, who where well versed in the shastras and possessed many great qualities. Bhagwan also performed acts of greatness for all living beings – not just His devotees. In addition to the religious achievements He also created places of food and shelter for the homeless, built wells for villages without adequate water supply and politically influenced the denouncement of infanticide (when people killed baby girls)and satiism (forcing widows to die on their husbands’ funeral pyre). -- Q: How can we differentiate between Swaminarayan Bhagwan and all other incarnations? A: In reference to the answer in the previous question, all one has to do is look at his sheer accomplishment. All Avtars before Him had come to destroy evil and establish the reign of Dharma. However, Swaminarayan Bhagwan is the only incarnate to establish an Acharyaship, Mandirs and write a scripture himself. Only the supreme himself can do such things. All the incarnations knew this which is exactly why they had not done it themselves as they too were waiting for this truly divine being. All other incarnations succeeded in destroying evil, but only Swaminarayan Bhagwan has established a long lasting rule of dharma. -- Q: If Swaminarayan Bhagwan is so great, what does He do for His devotees? A: Before taking over the leadership of the sampraday Swaminarayan Bhagwan asked for two specific promises, in order to protect and look after His devotees: which Ramanand Swami happily granted. Firstly, that none of his devotees suffer the pain of a scorpion bite, but He Himself suffers this pain instead million fold. Secondly that none of His devotees will ever go without food and shelter (Vachanamrut: Gadhada Pratham 69). This is just one way that Bhagwan shows the esteem, within which he holds His devotees. He would rather suffer multiple pains, than see His devotees distressed. -- Q: Ok, Swaminarayan Bhagwan is great, but what makes Him, the greatest? A: Swaminarayan Bhagwan that we see before us is the Swaminarayan Bhagwan {pratyaksha} that resides in Akshardham. And He is the ultimate Lord almighty, known as “Avtar na Avtaari” {Vachanamrut: Vadtal 6} who is the source of all incarnations; sometimes referred to as Purushottam Narayan. It is He who resides in Akshardham who is the God of the entire cosmos, which includes all the dhams and universes. He is the creator, preserver and destructor of all cosmoses. He has given us the opportunity with His presence to attain true Moksha at His abode, Akshardham. -- Q: What is an Acharya? A: An Acharya is defined in general terms as a teacher or a guru. Think back to the days of Mahabharata. When it was time for princes and young boys to receive their education, their teacher was given the title of Acharya (e.g. The Pandavas and Kauravs were taught by Kripi Acharya Drona Acharya). A teacher is known to be greater than any normal person, which is why they are often seen as leaders as they direct you towards the path of knowledge and goodness. -- Q: Why have an Acharaya? A: Acharyas hold a position in our sect which is similar to that of the Pope in the Catholic religion. They are there to make sure followers do not stray away from God; so our gurus (for males and females) do their best to ensure this objective is met. In order for any sect to run properly and have a sense of control, a great leader is required who is able to ensure followers achieve the path of salvation. No normal man can do this, nor can a group of the most intelligent individuals. The Acharya personifies such a person to look after a sect. -- Q: Who are the Acharyas? A: Swaminarayan Bhagwan himself before taking leave from this earth designated his two adopted sons, Ayodhyaprasadji and Raghuvirji, and thereon in their sons to become the official Heads of the Sampraday. -- Q: Why can’t you have a Swami (saints) as an Acharya? A: The role of the swami is such that he is forbidden to have dealings in worldly affairs, which includes matters of money and the association of women, so they will not be able to preach to female satsangis. This is why it is important for an Acharya to be a Grahastha (householder) as they can marry and therefore their wives, Gadiwalla Shree can preach to women. Also Vedic tradition dictates that religious movements should be led by a Grahastha as they can relate to the critical mass of devotees, who are also Grahastha. This is what is unique about the Swaminarayan sampraday. Any other false pretenders cannot put claim to this. -- Q: Then why not have the very staunchest of satsangis (followers) to run it? They are of Ghrast status. A: Yes they are. However not anyone can control a religious sect. In the same way you can’t have just anyone running a business. It may seem practical to have the people control it, but eventually there will be a clash of egos and greed taking over. Instead they must achieve certain attributes, have knowledge of the shastras and must be appropriately chosen from the family of Dharma Dev. This is a fundamental. -- Q: Can they give advice on any problem or issue a follower may have? A: Yes they can. They are your guru; they are there to make sure your path to salvation is not troubled. In addition they (Acharya and Gadiwalla) also give advice to Swamis and Sankh Yogis (female equivalents of saints) respectively on religious issues. Such is their uniqueness. This is exactly how a Guru-Shishya (teacher-student) relationship should be. Yet at the same time that high level of respect and loyalty should not disappear. -- Q: How many Acharayas can there be? A: There can be only two at any time, one to look after the northern diocese and one to look after the southern diocese. These are respectively Nar-Narayan Dev Gadi in Ahmedavad and Laxmi-Narayan Dev Gadi in Vadtal. There is no such thing as a third Gadi, or any other leader in the Sampraday. -- Q: How important are they? A: They are very important. A sampraday cannot run without an Acharya, in the same way any organisation or business cannot run without a good manager. Only they can carry out murti pratishtha (to call upon God to physically reside in deities) authenticate shastras, and initiate men and Swamis into the fold. Their consort, Gadiwalla Shree initiates women and Sankh Yogis. It is also important to realise that God himself has said he will always reside in the chosen Acharyas and that followers should have the utmost respect for them and should serve them always. However it is should be taken into mind that they are in turn not God, and nor do they claim to be, and should not be idol worshiped in his place, despite what many other sects tend to practice -- Q: What is the purpose and of having a Mandir? A: The temple is where God resides. It is His home and is where all followers can collectively do darshan (prayer) of Him. It is the central part of our religion where not only do people learn the greatness of God and study His philosophy, but also meet fellow devotees and allow relations within the sampraday to remain forever strong. Also a temple is the ideal place to go after a long day of work and stress. -- Q: What is the difference between worshipping in a Mandir and at home? A: The spiritual significance of any place of worship is immense. The temple is a place of great purity and peacefulness. Such is the spiritual magnitude, that when a follower does one mala (turning of 108 sandal beads) in a temple, it is equivalent to doing it 1000 times elsewhere. This atmosphere can only be created at a Mandir. At home, it is still one’s dharma (duty) to keep a Shrine of God so that He can reside and look after that home. However you can often get distractions such as the phone ringing, the television or visitors coming round. This is why God has said we should go to the temple every evening to listen to discourses in peace. -- Q: Is there a particular way a temple should be constructed? A: Yes there is a Vedic tradition on how to build a temple. The temple Shree Hari constructed in Ahmedavad, which was the first in the world, was according to Vedic tradition. Each carving, pillar and dome has its own individual significance. Take the Shreekhar (dome) on the temple. This indicates the number of sinhasans (Shrines) inside the temple. All Mandirs which are built today are carefully constructed so that they resemble those described in the Vedas. -- Q: How does one know which temple is suitable to go to? A: Bhagwan has instructed in the Shikshapatri that when passing any temple we should bow down to the images of God inside. However He has also instructed us to do full darshan of those Murtis which have been installed by the selected Dharmavanshi Acharya (the leader of the sect who has been appointed from the lineage of Dharma Dev). This one fundamental must apply, regardless of where the temple is or how big it is. -- Q: Is there significance behind particular Murtis being installed? A: Yes there is. The obvious being the image of Sahajanand Swami at any Swaminarayan temple, as He is indeed the supreme. Secondly is the murti of Shree Nar-Narayan Dev, whom Bhagwan has declared as the King of Bharatkhand and that they look after the welfare of all satsangis. He has also instructed that this murti should be worshipped by everyone. Then there is the idol of Shree Radha-Krishna Dev. Shree Krishna was Sahajanand Swami’s ishtadev (idol he worshipped) and has instructed us to serve to him always. Radhikaji is always beside Krishna Bhagwan due the deep devotion she has for him. Other Murtis are an indication of the many forms Bhagwan takes and the fact that he is one. The murti of Shree Nar-Narayan Dev was installed in the world’s first temple in Ahmedavad as this is the birthplace of Shree Nar-Narayan Dev. The idols of Shree Laxmi-Narayan Dev were installed in Vadtal because this was the site where Laxmiji performed penance for thousands of years to be rewarded with marriage to Lord Vishnu. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 2, 2006 The Swaminarayan followers can say whatever that want but they are no authority on the Vedic scriptures. There is no mention of swaminarayan in any Vedic scriptures. Thus it should be rejected. It's just another deviation from sanatan dharma and Lord Krishna. As predicted in the Srimad Bhgaavatam, in Kali Yuga there will be many imposters who will declare them selves as God. They should all be rejected. Don't be fooled by the swaminarayan sects's magnificant temples. Even the demons can build better buildings. There is no basis for swaminarayn according to the Vedic scriptures. Thus this sect should be totally rejected. There scriptures are not eternal, where as the Vedic scriptures are eternal. This is the proof that the swaminarayan sect is bogus and swaminarayan is not God. In the future there will be so many other imposters. As people in Kali Yuga are so dumb, there will always be followers of fake Gods. The swaminarayan sect itself is split into 4 parts, this alone proves how people keep deviating from the original scriptures. Lord Krishna states in the Bhagavad-gita that he is the source of everything. Since the Bhagavad-gita is eternal, it's the absolute truth. The Vachanamrut is about 300 years old and written by man, not God. The Vachanamrut should be rejected. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 3, 2006 These guys are chanting a so-called mahamantra 'Swaminarayan' which isnt in sastra anywhere, somehow vyas gave us the vedas but missed out the top god who even ram krishna narayan are expansions of , the great lord swaminarayan, the source of ram jesus etc. Somehow the dham this lord resides in 'akshardham' isnt mentioned anywhere except in the books wirtten by swaminarayan followers. We should just forget about the scriptures written by vyas which are the written basis for sanatan dharma for the past 5000 years, and follow this new god, with his new mantra and new dhama because a few blind diciples say so. Ridiculus and offensive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 3, 2006 hey dude. you say that where in the vedic scriptures is swaminarayan mentioned. I ask you where in the vedic scriptures is Krishna mentioned. In the time of krishna he was not worshiped as God. its only after he passed away was he worshipped as God. you say vachanamrut is merely 300 years old and written by man. well it is a dialect that is a conversation between Swaminarayn and his devotees. and if you read swaminarayans biography which MAN on earth has mastered the shastras by the age of Five, which MAN on earth has defeated wrestlers at the age of seven. Which MAN on earth has mastered Ashtang yoga in one year. i mean ashtang yoga not yoga. yoga is merely the first step, there are seven more steps after that. And which MAN has had 2000 sadhus and over a million followers in his time. I can only say that whoever can accomplish that is not MAN but GOD. so i think you should stop criticising other hindu sects. And about the magnificient mandirs swaminarayan has build, dude they also have radha krishna installed in them. so i think you should get your facts right the next time you decide to debate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 3, 2006 Get this. The sanatan dharma is based on the Vedic scripturs and there is no basis for swaminarayan in the Vedic scriptrues. So forget swaminarayan as God. Swaminarayan may have done great things, but so did the demons like Kasna, Ravana, and Heranyakashipur. Herayakashipur defeated even the demigods. The fact that the swaminarayan sect is slit into 4 parts already proves how people keep deviating from the original truth. Follow sanatan dharma, the Vedic scriptures and worship only Lord Krishna. Reject the swaminarayan sect. "Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be." (Lord Krishna BG 9.11) "Whatever a man may sacrifice to other gods, O son of Kunti, is really meant for Me alone, but it is offered without true understanding. I am the only enjoyer and the only object of sacrifice. Those who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down." (Lord Krishna BG 9.23-24) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 3, 2006 A: Swaminarayan Bhagwan that we see before us is the {pratyaksha} that resides in Akshardham. And He is the ultimate Lord almighty, known as “Avtar na Avtaari” {Vachanamrut: Vadtal 6} who is the source of all incarnations; sometimes referred to as Purushottam Narayan. It is He who resides in Akshardham who is the God of the entire cosmos, which includes all the dhams and universes. He is the creator, preserver and destructor of all cosmoses. He has given us the opportunity with His presence to attain true Moksha at His abode, Akshardham Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 3, 2006 This is a Vedic forum for discussing Vedic scriptures and not man made scriptures created about 300 years ago. Take your Swaminarayan bagwan elesewhere. The swamianrayan sect is not Vedic, and should be completely rejected. Please take your idiology elsewhere. Leave us now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 3, 2006 The question of Swaminarayan being God has been answered in several threads before in this forum. Please read those first. The appearance of Bhagavan or any of his avatars is always foretold in vedic scriptures. The definition of Bhagvan is also one who has the six opulences in full and it is the opinion of all sages, demi-gods, acharyas including Swaminarayan that Lord Krishna is Bhagvan and no one else. Swaminarayan himself instructed to worship only Krishna as he was the highest, to study Bhagvad Gita and he built temples for Lord Krishna. Swaminarayan followers are supposed to be vaishnavas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 3, 2006 God is not limited to the number of incarnations that he takes, and he takes them according to his free will Just because something dose not measure up to pre-contrainted thoughts or what we read the the shastra's be it vedas.. it does not mean that we reject something NEW just because we do not have the power or understanding to understand it. God is not bound by shastra's he incarnates upon his free will Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 3, 2006 Shri Swaminarayan was worshipped as god, read Satsangi Jivan, and you will find out all things that you list, were trully done by him But the thing is how you argue if you don't read you can't just say it's wrong, before even reading the shastra's The proof of the pooding is in the eating, not just by looking and saying No.. no .no Jai Swaminarayan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 3, 2006 God knows the past, present, and the future. And that's why all his incarnations are known in advance. The Vedic scriptures outlines each and every incarnation of the supreme. There are no surprise incarnations. The so-called surprise incarnations are bogus cheaters. They should be rejected. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 3, 2006 Heranyakasipur was a first class demon who had millions of followers who worshiped him as God. He also built beautiful buildings. He was killed by Lord Krishna's incarnation of Narasima. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kcp1982 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 Hare Krishna. It's a fact that with every new sect, sanatan dharma becomes diluted and that's why it's a minority religion in the world now. When you pour water in milk, the milk slowly disappears. The more water you add, the more diluted the milk becomes. That's what's happening to sanatan dharma. It's because of so many bogus Gurus that Bharat Varsha which once ruled the whole world is now a tiny place called India. This is also diminishing. Sanatan dharma is based on the Vedic scriptures which are eternal and not any recent man made scriptures. The Vedic scriptures are: Bhagavad-gita Srimad Bhagavatam 18 Puranas 108 Upanishads 4 Vedas The conclusion of these Vedic scriptures is that Lord Krishna is the supreme. Lord Brahma who was the first created living being clearly stated that Lord Krishna is the origin of all. Who are we to argue with Lord Brahma? Do we doubt our own father when he says something? If you truly love Bharat Varsha and want to see it once again rule the world then follow the Vedic scriptures and worship only Lord Krishna, only Lord Krishna. If you want to see Bharat Varsha become a slave and lose it's great culture and religion, then keep creating new sects and keep creating new Gods. The Mahabharat war was all about being righteous, both the sides followed the same religion, but one side was deviating and the other side was following righteousness. The deviaters lost. As predicted in the Vedic scriptures, in every Kali Yuga there are many imposters who will pose as God. People tend to be dumb and so will follow anyone who can create a miracle. Sai Baba materialises ash and millions worship him as God. This proves my point. His teachings are good, but he is not God. So follow his teachings but not him as God. In a similar way, follow the teachings of Swaminarayan but don't worship as God. So in conclusion, forget this God and that God, follow sanatan dharma, follow the Vedic scriptures, follow Lord Krishna only. "Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear." (Lord Krishna BG 18.66) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
