God of Geeta / Geeta ka bhagwaan

[Guest guest]

Omshanti.

If you believe that shastras are correct then where is the ksheersaagar where Vishnu's abode is present? Where is the Indralok? Where is the abode of Shankar (with Parvati and Ganas)Where is the abode of Brahma? Where is paataal lok? How can a person with ten heads like Ravana exist? If he existed then there should also be his descendants with 10 heads? If nobody has seen any of the above abodes of Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar, then is it not simply speculation to imagine these abodes? Can anyone kindly answer where the above abodes are located? Please don't say that I will go there only after my death. If everyone goes there only after death then who will certify as to these abodes actually exist or not? Saying that we can see these abodes only after death is only a ploy to silence scientific / rational thinking and to continue the kingdom of blindfaith.

With regards,

On Godly service,

Roohani sevadhari.

 

[Guest guest]

Omshanti.

Many of my learned friends are repeatedly asking for pramanas from Shastras. I want to ask them humbly if any of the incarnations of Vishnu were proved on the basis of shastras? Did Ram or Krishna sit and have any shaastraarth to prove themselves as the incarnations of God? Or did their followers sit and held shaastraarth (debates on scriptures) to prove that Ram and Krishna were incarnations? No. Shastraarth were not held, but people did oppose every incarnation. Why talk of incarnations which are only mythological stories or speculations which nobody has seen. People have seen all the religious fathers and their existence is proved by history. Did any of the religious father hold any book or scripture of their time to narrate knowledge? No. History says that no religious father read out from any book. In fact they gave knowledge that was different from the scriptures popular at that time. They always spoke extempore, from their heart. The religious books of various religions (like Bible, Quran, Guru Granth Sahib or Dhammapath) were compiled by the disciples of the religious fathers either during their lifetime or after their demise. No religious father either wrote any book nor read out from any book. Then why do our learned friends want proofs from shaastras for every word? If God has to incarnate to give knowledge already existing in the shastras then where is the need for incarnation at all? And if the human gurus have to certify the incarnation on the basis of shastras, then will that incarnation not become subordinate or bound to the mortal human beings?

 

with regards,

On Godly service,

Roohani sevadhari,

PBK

[Guest guest]

Hare krishna,

u r speculating again, sastra never speculates. satra is fact. what can i say?as long as u speculate u will be lost. The only thing u can do is read over and over again. i cannot suggest anyhting else ..

ok tk care

Hari Bol

[Guest guest]

 

Omshanti.

If you believe that shastras are correct then where is the ksheersaagar where Vishnu's abode is present? Where is the Indralok? Where is the abode of Shankar (with Parvati and Ganas)Where is the abode of Brahma? Where is paataal lok? How can a person with ten heads like Ravana exist? If he existed then there should also be his descendants with 10 heads? If nobody has seen any of the above abodes of Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar, then is it not simply speculation to imagine these abodes? Can anyone kindly answer where the above abodes are located? Please don't say that I will go there only after my death. If everyone goes there only after death then who will certify as to these abodes actually exist or not? Saying that we can see these abodes only after death is only a ploy to silence scientific / rational thinking and to continue the kingdom of blindfaith.

With regards,

On Godly service,

Roohani sevadhari.

 

 

One can ask the same questions to you Bramma(hallucinating) Kumaris as well.

 

Has anybody seen your so called mirakar shiva. Remember you claimed that your dada fakeraj did not claim to have seen this god of yours and that is is only his followers claimed that fakeraj has seen something.

 

So there is no proof that anybody has seen your imaginary god shiva.

 

As for Lord Visnu, many Acharyas and devotees have seen Lord Visnu and HIS avataras directly and have written them down in their works. Some of these acharyas and devotees are Madhvacharya, Raghavendra, Ramanuja, Vijayindra Tirtha, Vadiraja Tirhta, many alwars, Namdev, Ramadas, Gnanananda Swamy(Advaiti), HariDas(Advaiti) and so many others.

 

Who has seen your imaginary god Shiva ? except wild tales from followers of dada fakeraj. Nobody even heard of your so called god before your fakeraj found them.

[Guest guest]

 

Omshanti.

Many of my learned friends are repeatedly asking for pramanas from Shastras. I want to ask them humbly if any of the incarnations of Vishnu were proved on the basis of shastras? Did Ram or Krishna sit and have any shaastraarth to prove themselves as the incarnations of God? Or did their followers sit and held shaastraarth (debates on scriptures) to prove that Ram and Krishna were incarnations? No.

 

 

Infact, all those ho believed in Shaastra knew Lord Krishna or Lord Ram only through Shaastra, not otherwise.

 

On the other hand those that did not know Shaastra well like Sisupala etc., argued that Lord Krishna or Lord Ram is nor GOD.

 

Lord Krishna quotes from Upanishads in Bhagavad Gita. Infact Bhagavad Gita is considered as the cream of milk extracted from Upanishads and Vedas.

 

Your knowledge about Vedas or about Lord Visnu and HIS avataras are zero.

 

 

People have seen all the religious fathers and their existence is proved by history. Did any of the religious father hold any book or scripture of their time to narrate knowledge? No. History says that no religious father read out from any book. In fact they gave knowledge that was different from the scriptures popular at that time. They always spoke extempore, from their heart. The religious books of various religions (like Bible, Quran, Guru Granth Sahib or Dhammapath) were compiled by the disciples of the religious fathers either during their lifetime or after their demise. No religious father either wrote any book nor read out from any book. Then why do our learned friends want proofs from shaastras for every word? If God has to incarnate to give knowledge already existing in the shastras then where is the need for incarnation at all? And if the human gurus have to certify the incarnation on the basis of shastras, then will that incarnation not become subordinate or bound to the mortal human beings?

 

 

First you have not proven that your dada fakeraj saw any god.

 

Second, you pointing to other religions and their so called sages not quoting any shaastra, only shows that their knowledge is not perfect. That is why bible, quran, SGGS etc. contain fallacies as they are written down by fallible human beings.

 

Third, GOD reveals HIS avataras etc. through Veda and puranas, itihaasas etc. HE does not become bound by this process, but guides HIS devotees and protects them from false knowledge.

[sumedh 0]

Dear Roohani sevadhari

 

you said:

 

I have already explained that as per the knowledge given to us by God Shiva this world drama cycle of 5000 years is not full of miseries. Half of this kalpa, i.e. 2500 years (i.e. Satyug and Tretayug) is purely peace and prosperity, with no rakshasas or vices.

 

 

 

What is this up with 5000 years? Read any archeology findings of late? For example a 7000 year old temple found in Mallesvaram, or old writings in Harappa dating back to 3500BC.

 

Unfortunately, you dodged the question again as to why this "drama". Is the question too difficult to understand?

 

Important questions you should ask yourself is the foundation of your believe. Seems to me like history as in British India time; so if it changes (which it has already) then what would be the status of your faith? Other question is whether your belief system stands and falls on the integrity of one person.

 

[sumedh 0]

dear roohani sevadhari

 

you said:

 

A soul is like a trident, consisting of three parts- mind, intellect and resolves. Mind and resolves are the spikes on the right and left hand, whereas the intellect is the spike in the middle, slightly longer and more important than the other two spikes.

 

The above paragraph is only comparing the mind, intellect and resolves with the three spikes of a trident and do not mean that the mind, intellect and resolves are shaped like that. Neither soul nor supreme soul can be seen through the naked eyes, they can only be realized within.

 

 

 

which i understood perfectly well. My comment was that mind/intellect is physical in nature which has got to do nothing with the soul. btw it can be easily shown by logic that mind/intellect is physical in nature.

[sumedh 0]

Hare Krishna

 

Dear Roohani Sevadhari

 

you said:

 

have also stated that unlike the belief in the bhaktimarg, God says that souls cannot change their yoni or species from one birth to another. They experience pleasures (sukh) and pains (dukh) in the same species at different times of the world drama cycle.

 

 

 

First off, don't attribute silly ideas to god. So talk about "according to lekhraj siddhanta" -- okay. Rest of reply has got to do nothing with the original question.

 

It seems that your answer is that after some 5000 years all animals merge into god. Is it correct?

[sumedh 0]

Dear Roohani sevadhari

 

You again fail to understand simple things.

 

you said:

 

Dada Lekhraj or the present corporeal medium of incorporeal Shiva never claimed themselves that Shiva enters into them. It is we souls, on the basis of the unique knowledge received through them, believe that the incorporeal God father is giving knowledge through the present corporeal medium.

 

 

 

Even charvakas gave unique knowledge -- so you must observe your own foundations of your faith. Attributing hallucinations of lekhraj to god when he also does not claim it (according to what you say) and arguing with others ...

 

then you said:

 

As regards your claim about Shiva entering into you,

 

 

 

which was heights of your inapplication of simple intelligence, because it was an illustration that anyone can claim that Lord Shiva has entered him and give "unique" knowledge. Don't believe me -- i can also act that way.

[sumedh 0]

Dear roohani sevadhari

 

The purport to the earlier sloka was provided to help you understand simple things and the next sloka. Unfortunately it is only a waste of time to write to you. Why? Because you passed a lot of hot gas for the purport that was provided to help you understand. And then when the purport was not provided your lack of understanding of my understanding was obvious. Go back to what i wrote: cutting the tongue means cutting the arguments with arguments from scripture.

 

[sumedh 0]

Dear roohani sevadhari

 

you said:

 

I never said that God is bound by anyone. I only said that God is also bound to enter this world to purify all the souls as per the 5000 years world drama.

 

 

 

Seems that your god has made some progress albeit slow. But you can come to the true understanding of God slowly but surely if you remain sincere.

 

Anyway, as usual you dodged the question? Why does God not free all of us?. Your answer that i understand is that he is incapable of doing so ...

[sumedh 0]

Dear Roohani Sevadhari

 

All the incarnations were already mentioned in the scriptures before their appearance, just like now we have the knowledge that Lord Kalki will appear after 427000 years. For example, Mula Ramayana was narrated by Srila Narada Muni to Sage Valmiki before the actual Ramayana.

 

Your logic is astounding! On one hand you claim that god spoke through lekhraj, and then you say that no proof is required. Then for that matter why dont believe me instead of lekhraj?

 

[sumedh 0]

Dear Roohani Sevadhari

 

If you need to know these things then you should ask in a humble manner. Unfortunately, you have mistaken conceptions of humility. You mistake duplicity to be humility. How do we know that? Because you say many times "Kindly enlighten me" when you actually mean "i have given such and such an objection to your thinking. do you have any answer". You actually do not come to learn anything from here; you do not come to ask but to find non-existent faults in our understanding.

 

I have asked you again and again to first do some reading. You say that you have read Bhagavatam etc., but it is clear that you have not or even if you have, you have not understood whatever you read. The reason was that you read to do fault-finding and not to learn. If you would have read then you would not have wrote junk dealing with dalits etc. to an organization which comes from acharyas who for the first time made so called dalits as acharyas, as also untouchables.

 

You do not realize that sometimes even fools can sometimes speak the truth; even a broken clock is right twice a day. My suggestion is that you should first try the path as shown by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, and then judge for one must judge by the results. The Bhagavatam says (11.8.10):

 

anubhyas ca mahadbhyas ca

sastrebhyah kusalo narah

sarvatah saram adadyat

pushpebhya iva shatpadah

 

Just as the honeybee takes nectar from all flowers, big and small, an intelligent human being should take the essence from all religious scriptures.

 

 

 

So maybe you should also try to find the beautiful things in the gaudiya conception. I suggest you try chanting the maha-mantra for say three months, for about half an hour daily (one can do this at any time or circumstances). There is nothing more that i can do for you.

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Sumedh,

Omshanti. You wrote,

---------------------------

What is this up with 5000 years? Read any archeology findings of late? For example a 7000 year old temple found in Mallesvaram, or old writings in Harappa dating back to 3500BC.Unfortunately, you dodged the question again as to why this "drama". Is the question too difficult to understand? Important questions you should ask yourself is the foundation of your believe. Seems to me like history as in British India time; so if it changes (which it has already) then what would be the status of your faith? Other question is whether your belief system stands and falls on the integrity of one person.

---------------------------

 

You say that when talk of Kaliyuga's age as more than 4 lakh years (and other ages much more) we should believe blindly, and when I say that God is telling this world to be 5000 years old, you say it is against shastras.

 

With reference to your doubt about the veracity of the figure 5000, I would like to quote from a book (Indian History) written by Shri K. Krishna Reddy, which I had bought for preparing for the civil services examination.

The first paragraph of the first chapter on Indus civilization says,

“A decisive revolution in human history occurred about 5000 years ago when, in four separate religions of intense agricultural activity, a number of dispersed farming villages evolved first into towns, and then into cities. From these centres eventually arose the first civilizations of the world, all of them located in broad river valleys – the Tigris and the Euphrates in Mesopotamia, the Nile in Egypt, the Indus in India and the Hwang Ho (Yellow river) in China. Around 3500 BC the first cities developed in Mesopotamia followed shortly afterwards by similar developments in Egypt and India, and a little later in China.”

 

In the same book the author quotes the periods of various Ages of history, which I think can be tallied with any history book. He says:-

1. Palaeolithic Age or Old Stone Age from 5,00,000 BC, i.e. from the time man had started living in India to 8000 BC.

 

2. Mesolithic Age or Late Stone Age from 8000 BC to 4000 BC.

 

3. Neolithic Age or New Stone Age from 4000 BC to 1800 BC.

Chalcolithic Age or the Stone-Copper Age from 1800 BC to 1000 or 800 BC.

4. As written by the author in the first paragraph the Indus valley civilization started somewhere after 3500 BC.

I am quoting from the history book only to say that even the earliest known civilization started around 5000 years ago even according to historians and the Hindu shastras say that the age of the Eras preceding the present Kaliyuga were lakhs of years old (I do not know the exact age. When you can predict the future age of present Kaliyug, then I am sure that you can also enlighten us as to how many lakhs of years old were Satyug, Tretayug and Dwaparyug)

 

When according to the historians of the entire world the human civilizations started only around 5000 years ago, then how can you say that all your so-called Godly versions (the man-made shastras) have been in existence since time immemorial?

 

According to the same book and same author the Rig Vedic or Early Vedic Period is only from 1500 BC to 1000 BC and the only source for this period is Rig Veda Samhita. The author say sthat the mention of the word “Samudra” meant only a collection of water and not sea in the period. And the mention of mountains was limited only to the Himalayas. The Later Vedic Period started only from 1000 BC.

 

The above paragraph clearly shows that the people of the Rig Vedic period had not even seen the ocean or other mountains (like Vindhyas, that divide the northern and southern India) that find mention in the later scriptures. So how can you claim that the Hindu scriptures are present since time immemorial and that God had narrated them?

 

When Vedas themselves have been written only after 3500 BC then how can Bhagwad Gita which a much later scripture be written in the Dwaparyuga, which according to you must have been lakhs of years ago? Please do not quote dates according to your (or scriptures’) imagination but also support it with historical documents/proofs. Saying that each yuga is lakhs of years old is nothing but shooting arrows in the empty air. If the age of each yuga is actually lakhs of years old then how come the people of Chalcolithic Age or the Stone-Copper Age from 1800 BC to 1000 or 800 BC were aware of only stones and copper? Did Shri Krishna only wear stone ornaments if your version of each yuga being lakhs of years is taken to be correct?

 

All the so called Godly versions quoted by you and other learned friends are actually scriptures written by human beings and not by God. The above explanation goes on to prove that the figure of 5000 years as the total age of the world drama cycle in the knowledge being given by God Shiva to us is much more accurate than your imaginative scriptures and the imaginary ages of various yugas according to those shastras.

 

With regards,

On Godly service,

Roohani sevadhari,

Prajapita Brahmakumar

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Guest, Omshanti.

You wrote,

---------------------------

Has anybody seen your so called mirakar shiva. Remember you claimed that your dada fakeraj did not claim to have seen this god of yours and that is is only his followers claimed that fakeraj has seen something.

Who has seen your imaginary god Shiva ? except wild tales from followers of dada fakeraj. Nobody even heard of your so called god before your fakeraj found them.

---------------------------

You can continue to spit venom on God, Dada Lekhraj or Brahmakumaris or us. That will not do us any harm except for increasing your blood pressure. I will continue to reply only to the points of knowledge. If you continue to draw pleasure by showering abuses on us, you can definitely do so. As I have said earlier that it only reflects on the training given by your gurus and man-made shastras, which can never transform human beings completely, leave alone giving moksha. God or self can only be realized through your mind and intellect and not seen through these mortal eyes.

 

You further wrote,

---------------------------

As for Lord Visnu, many Acharyas and devotees have seen Lord Visnu and HIS avataras directly and have written them down in their works. Some of these acharyas and devotees are Madhvacharya, Raghavendra, Ramanuja, Vijayindra Tirtha, Vadiraja Tirhta, many alwars, Namdev, Ramadas, Gnanananda Swamy(Advaiti), HariDas(Advaiti) and so many others.

---------------------------

 

The sighting of Lord Vishnu by above acharyas is only an sakshaatkaar (divine vision) caused by God. Even Dada Lekhraj and many senior Brahmakumaris have had divine visions of Vishnu or Shri Krishna. But that is only a divine vision and not a physical reality. If Lord Vishnu physically or actually appeared before them, then where is he now? Where are the other 33 crore deities? Do they live in an imaginary world?

 

With regards,

On Godly service,

Roohani sevadhari.

Prajapita Brahmakumar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Guest,

Omshanti,

You wrote,

---------------------------

Lord Krishna quotes from Upanishads in Bhagavad Gita. Infact Bhagavad Gita is considered as the cream of milk extracted from Upanishads and Vedas.

---------------------------

 

This shows that you accept that most of the pages written in all other scriptures except Bhagwad Gita are only an irrelevant expansion of the required essence.

 

You further wrote,

---------------------------

Second, you pointing to other religions and their so called sages not quoting any shaastra, only shows that their knowledge is not perfect. That is why bible, quran, SGGS etc. contain fallacies as they are written down by fallible human beings.

---------------------------

 

Although scriptures of other religions may not contain the complete truth, nevertheless they are being followed by souls much bigger in number than Hindus, which proves that they are also powerful religions. And one thing to be compared between all other religions and Hinduism is that the names of most of the religions are based on the names of their religious fathers, whereas the Hindus have forgotten even the name of their religion and their founder. That is why they have adopted a name given to their religion by foreigners and feel proud to display that name instead of the Aadi Sanatan Devi Devata Dharma, which was the original name.

 

I quote from the book named “Indian History” written by Shri K. Krishna Reddy:

---------------------------

The name “India” is derived from the river “Indus” for India means the country of the Indus. The earliest literary evidence, however, shows that the first Aryan settlers in India called the Indus the Sindhu (a huge sheet of water). The Aryans in their long trek through Iran into India could never before have encountered a river of such magnitude as the Indus. In 518 BC Darius I, the Persian Emperor, conquered the country around the Indus and converted it into a Persian Satrapy (province). The Persians, because of their own difficulty in pronouncing the initial –S- turned the Sindhu into Hindu. Later passing through the hands of the Greeks, Hindu became Indus. Thus to the Greeks and Romans, India came to mean the country of the Indus. With Arab conquest of Sind, however, the old Persian name returned in the form of Hindustan (Land of the Hindu); the people who inhabited the land came to be called Hindus and their religion was described as Hinduism.

---------------------------

 

With regards,

ON Godly service,

Roohani sevadhari,

Prajapita Brahmakumar

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Sumedh,

Omshanti. You wrote:

---------------------------Unfortunately, you dodged the question again as to why this "drama". Is the question too difficult to understand?

---------------------------

 

I have already answered this question that this human world cycle (manushya srishti chakra) is of 5000 years and repeats itself. This consists of half the period of heaven 2500 years) and half the period of hell (2500 years) on this earth itself. But that does not mean that throughout the 2500 years of heaven prosperity is cent percent. It very slowly decreases with time. Similarly sorrows and pains will not become 100 percent immediately after the beginning of hell (dwapar and kaliyug). It increases slowly and reaches its peak at the end of Kaliyug.

The scheme of this drama is such because God does not come and establish a heaven which also consists of sorrows. It contains only pleasures. But when we become bodyconscious, then the sorrows begin. In this cycle of 5000 years each soul right from its time of arrival on this earth to the end of Kaliyuga (when most of the souls depart for soul world) pass through the satopradhan (completely pure), rajopradhan and tamopradhan stage.

I have already said that as per God, complete liberation from this world drama cycle is not possible. Every soul has to enter into this cycle at some point of time or the other. Only difference is that some souls enjoy 100 percent pleasure for longer periods and some enjoy it for lesser period. Some souls enter into this cycle when there is 100 percent pleasure and some souls enter into this cycle when pleasures and sorrows are co-existent, i.e. for the 2500 years of hell (Dwapar and Kaliyug). Those souls who have not seen the period of heaven, i.e. pure pleasures (without any sorrows) crave for liberation as they have not seen pure pleasures (without sorrows) and get fed up of seing miseries. Souls of sanyasis and souls of other religions which enter into this world from Dwaparyug onwards are of such a category.

The souls belonging to the deity religion who have enjoyed 100 percent peace, prosperity and happiness will not crave for liberation but for peace and prosperity while living in this world.

Now it is upto you to decide whether you wish to make spiritual efforts and become entitled to enter the forthcoming heaven on this earth or to live in the soul world during the period of heaven and then enter into a world consisting of both pleasures and pains.

 

With regards,

On Godly service,

Roohani sevadhari,

Prajapita Brahmakumar

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Sumedh,

Omshanti. You wrote:

---------------------------which i understood perfectly well. My comment was that mind/intellect is physical in nature which has got to do nothing with the soul. btw it can be easily shown by logic that mind/intellect is physical in nature.

---------------------------

 

It is a well known fact that mind is something different from matter. Even scientists and psychologists have been trying to do research about mind and its effects. It is surprising to hear from you that mind and intellect is something physical. There are scores of diseases in the world which have more to do with the mind than matter, which scientists, doctors and psychologists have not been able to cure.

 

With regards,

On Godly service,

Roohani sevadhari,

Prajapita Brahmakumar.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

You can continue to spit venom on God, Dada Lekhraj or Brahmakumaris or us. That will not do us any harm except for increasing your blood pressure. I will continue to reply only to the points of knowledge. If you continue to draw pleasure by showering abuses on us, you can definitely do so. As I have said earlier that it only reflects on the training given by your gurus and man-made shastras, which can never transform human beings completely, leave alone giving moksha. God or self can only be realized through your mind and intellect and not seen through these mortal eyes.

 

 

I did not get any answer, only complaints for my actual descrition of your dada fakeraj and his followers. If telling the truth implies something negative, then your fakeraj and folloowers got it sadly wrong.

 

You asked in the subject

 

Where are Vishnu and other 33 crore deities?

 

I would like to ask you the same regarding your imaginary nirakar shiva.

 

Where is your imaginary god of your fakeraj ? Nobody knew of him before your fakeraj and bramma kumaris imagined him.

 

 

The sighting of Lord Vishnu by above acharyas is only an sakshaatkaar (divine vision) caused by God. Even Dada Lekhraj and many senior Brahmakumaris have had divine visions of Vishnu or Shri Krishna. But that is only a divine vision and not a physical reality.

 

 

This is your fakeraj's speculation.

 

Infact, Madhvacharya saw Lord Krishna, Lord Ram and Lord Krishna Dvaipanya VedaVyasa appeared before him. It is not a vision in meditation. So have Namdev seen Vittala(Krishna).

 

It would be wrong to say they have seen physically, as Narayana has no physical body, but all of them had a direct vision of Narayana's transcendental FORMS.

 

 

If Lord Vishnu physically or actually appeared before them, then where is he now? Where are the other 33 crore deities? Do they live in an imaginary world?

 

 

Narayana and HIS FORMS are omnipresent. Seeing Narayana is no imagination, as I stated in previous post that several devotees had direct vision of Narayana.

 

IF HE wills, Narayana will give direct vision of HIS FORMS to HIS devotees.

[Guest guest]

 

This shows that you accept that most of the pages written in all other scriptures except Bhagwad Gita are only an irrelevant expansion of the required essence.

 

 

Ignorant speculation. No learned man has ever said such irresponsible words about Gita.

 

This shows how much envy these dada fakeraj and his misguided followers have for Narayana and HIS avataras.

 

 

Although scriptures of other religions may not contain the complete truth, nevertheless they are being followed by souls much bigger in number than Hindus, which proves that they are also powerful religions.

 

 

At one time(before Columbus discovered America) ignorant people in Europe believed that land beyond the seas were inhabited by demons. Does that make them right ?

 

Fact has nothing to do with number of believers. It just means that many are mis-guided, just like dada fakeraj and his followers.

 

 

And one thing to be compared between all other religions and Hinduism is that the names of most of the religions are based on the names of their religious fathers, whereas the Hindus have forgotten even the name of their religion and their founder. That is why they have adopted a name given to their religion by foreigners and feel proud to display that name instead of the Aadi Sanatan Devi Devata Dharma, which was the original name.

 

 

Speculation..Prove it from Vedas.

 

On the other hadn, Since Vedic religion had no name, it just proves that no other religion was existent once, just the Vedas were the scrpipture of entire population.

 

 

The name “India” is derived from the river “Indus” for India means the country of the Indus. The earliest literary evidence, however, shows that the first Aryan settlers in India called the Indus the Sindhu (a huge sheet of water). The Aryans in their long trek through Iran into India could never before have encountered a river of such magnitude as the Indus. In 518 BC Darius I, the Persian Emperor, conquered the country around the Indus and converted it into a Persian Satrapy (province). The Persians, because of their own difficulty in pronouncing the initial –S- turned the Sindhu into Hindu. Later passing through the hands of the Greeks, Hindu became Indus. Thus to the Greeks and Romans, India came to mean the country of the Indus. With Arab conquest of Sind, however, the old Persian name returned in the form of Hindustan (Land of the Hindu); the people who inhabited the land came to be called Hindus and their religion was described as Hinduism.

 

 

Still Vedic religion is orinal religion.

[sumedh 0]

Dear roohani sevadhari

 

It is tiring to say same things again. Whatever you quoted is British era history now proved to be wrong. So do your readings again. I can help you for a start.

 

From http://www.geocities.com/~ramayanam/india_history.htm

 

From the calculation of the vernal equinox cycle, the Taiteriya Samhita provides dates that reach as far as 22000 B.C (Ref: Vartak, Tilak).

 

In his book "Are the Gathas pre-vedic" H.S.Spencer quotes another scholar stating that "Dhanista was the first of the naskshatras in the Rgvedic times and this takes us back to 21788 B.C., at least, to the origin of the Rgved." According to Dr. B.M. Sidhartha, director of the Birla Science Center, "Rgved .. was a product of a well-settled civilization going back to 8000 B.C. and beyond on the basis of astronomical dating .. and supported by archaeological excavations in south eastern Turkey... the more antique date of 10,000 B.C. proposed for RgVed or Vedic culture seemed more plausible in view of the epi-paleolithic agricultural and proto-agricultural civilizations going back to the same period ..." (TOI, August 2, 1993). These datelines were already proposed by Tilak when he says, " The Vedic hymns were sung in post-glacial times (8000 B.C.) by poets who had inherited their knowledge or contents thereof from their antediluvian forefathers". B.G. Tilak has done some extraordinary work of deciphering the concealed astronomical allusions in the ancient Vedic texts.

 

The geological discovery of the mighty Vedic river Sarasvati, which originally flowed somewhat parallel to Indus, dried up around 2000 B.C. Now the Rgved speaks of a mighty Sarasvati and it is in much later literature that we hear of the disappearance of the river. It is definitely known that the Veda are much older than the Mahabharat period (3100 B.C.) This establishes that the Rgved itself could not be later than the 4th millennium B.C. A paper presenting technical evidence concerning a newly discovered bronze idol states, " The life sized head has a hair style which the Vedas describe as being unique to Vasishtha, one of the Rishis who composed parts of Rig Veda ... Carbon 14 tests indicate that it was cast around 3700 B.C., with an error in either direction of upto 800 years .. an age also confirmed by independent metallurgical tests" (J. of Indo-European Studies, v.18, 1990, p.425-46). More and more archaeological findings are coming forth that place the Vedic age to remote antiquity.

 

An assessment of the Vedic literature thus provides a chronology of events in steps of 2000 years, starting from the early period of the RgVed (23,000 B.C.) upto the occurance of the Mahabharat War, a period when Vedvyas compiled the scattered Vedic knowledge into four parts. It is also worthy to note that the Indian history can be traced continuously from 29,000 B.C., when the great law-giver Swayambhuva Manu, flourished.

 

 

 

The astronomical evidence of Vedic texts is irrefutable unless one believes that the writers knew how to solve differential equations. The discovery of the dried up basin of Sarasvati by satellite imagery corroborates it further.

From http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/aid/astronomy.html

 

That Hindu astronomical lore about ancient tuimes cannot be based on later back-calculation, was also argued by Playfair's contemporary, the French astronomer Jean-Sylvain Bailly: "the motions of the stars calculated by the Hindus before some 4500 years vary not even a single minute from the [modern] tables of Cassini and Meyer. The Indian tables give the same annual variation of the moon as that discovered by Tycho Brahe -- a variation unknown to the school of Alexandria and also the the Arabs".6

 

Prof. N.S. Rajaram, a mathematician who has worked for NASA, comments: "fabricating astronomical data going back thousands of years calls for knowledge of Newton's Law of Gravitation and the ability to solve differential equations."7 Failing this advanced knowledge, the data in the Brahminical tables must be based on actual observation. Ergo, the Sanskrit-speaking Vedic seers were present in person to record astronomical observations and preserve them for a full 6,000 years: "The observations on which the astronomy of India is founded, were made more than three thousand years before the Christian era. (...) Two other elements of this astronomy, the equation of the sun's centre and the obliquity of the ecliptic (...) seem to point to a period still more remote, and to fix the origin of this astronomy 1000 or 1200 years earlier, that is, 4300 years before the Christian era".8

 

All this at least on the assumption that Playfair's, Bailly's and Rajaram's claims about the Hindu astronomical tables are correct. Disputants may start by proving them factually wrong, but should not enter the dispute arena without a refutation of the astronomers' assertions. It is something of a scandal that Playfair's and Bailly's findings have been lying around for two hundred years while linguists and indologists were publishing speculations on Vedic chronology in stark disregard for the contribution of astronomy.

 

2.3. The start of Kali-Yuga

Hindu tradition makes mention of the conjunction of the "seven planets" (Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Venus, Mercury, sun and moon) and Ketu (southern lunar node, the northern node/Rahu being by definition in the opposite location) near the fixed star Revati (Zeta Piscium) on 18 February 3102 BC. This date, at which Krishna is supposed to have breathed his last, is conventionally the start of the so-called Kali-Yuga, the "age of strife", the low point in a declining sequence of four ages. However, modern scholars have claimed that the Kali-Yuga system of time-reckoning was a much younger invention, not attested before the 6th century AD.

 

Against this modernist opinion, Bailly and Playfair had already shown that the position of the moon (the fastest-moving "planet", hence the hardest to back-calculate with precision) at the beginning of Kali-Yuga, 18 February 3102, as given by Hindu tradition, was accurate to 37'.9 Either the Brahmins had made an incredibly lucky guess, or they had recorded an actual observation on Kali Yuga day itself.

 

Richard L. Thompson claims that in Indian literature and inscriptions, there are a number of datelines expressed in Kali-Yuga which are older than the Christian era (and a fortiori older than the 6th century AD).10 More importantly, Thompson argues that the Jyotisha-shâstras (treatises on astronomy and, increasingly, astrology, starting in the 14th century BC with the Vedanga Jyotisha as per its own astronomical data, but mostly from the first millennium AD) are correct in mentioning this remarkable conjunction on that exact day, for there was indeed a conjunction of sun, moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Ketu and Revati.

 

True, the conjunction was not spectacularly exact, having an orb of 37�between the two most extreme planetary positions. But that exactly supports the hypothesis of an actual observation as opposed to a back-calculation. Indeed, if the Hindu astronomers were able to calculate this position after a lapse of many centuries (when the Jyotisha-Shâstra was written), it is unclear what reason they would have had for picking out that particular conjunction. Surely, such conjunctions are spectacular to those who witness one, and hence worth recording if observed. But they are not that exceptional when considered over millennia: even closer conjunctions of all visible planets do occur (most recently on 5 February 1962).11 If the Hindu astronomers had simply been going over their astronomical tables looking for an exceptional conjunction, they could have found more spectacular ones than the one on 18 February 3102 BC.

 

 

 

Further many sites dating to 7000 years and earlier have been excavated. For example: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?xml=0&xml=0&art_ID=129602326

 

What you quoted was only an obsolete version of history held by people who believe in baseless theories like aryan theory decades ago. Then you said:

 

When Vedas themselves have been written only after 3500 BC then how can Bhagwad Gita which a much later scripture be written in the Dwaparyuga, which according to you must have been lakhs of years ago? Please do not quote dates according to your (or scriptures’) imagination but also support it with historical documents/proofs. Saying that each yuga is lakhs of years old is nothing but shooting arrows in the empty air. If the age of each yuga is actually lakhs of years old then how come the people of Chalcolithic Age or the Stone-Copper Age from 1800 BC to 1000 or 800 BC were aware of only stones and copper? Did Shri Krishna only wear stone ornaments if your version of each yuga being lakhs of years is taken to be correct?

 

 

 

which is incorrect. The traditional date for Mahabharata is 3102BC which has been confirmed from the astronomical evidence given in the Mahabharata (as quoted above). Further poeple of those ages used tools like you mention just like there are tribals even now i.e. they coexisted. The discovery of the submerged city of Dwarka further corroborates the descriptions given in Mahabharata (and all the layers have not yet been exposed). I do not have to go to "forbidden archeology" to dispute your claims which have already been debunked by almost all modern historians. In any case the humans have been around for lakhs of years using the fossil record, so your 5000 year thing is your fantasy to keep supporting your current belief system.

[sumedh 0]

Dear roohani sevadhari

 

You again jumped the gun too early instead of trying to understand when you said:

 

It is a well known fact that mind is something different from matter. Even scientists and psychologists have been trying to do research about mind and its effects. It is surprising to hear from you that mind and intellect is something physical.

 

 

 

Ever heard of subtle matter. It would be a real waste to quote Bhagavad-Gita in this context. Suffice to say that you are confused what is spiritual and what is material. The vedic definition of material is different, viz. that which is not spiritual or subject to change. Spiritual reality is not subject to change while mind/intellect are. btw mind/intellect comes in the scientific definition of matter also though they are unable to define it as such due to the limited scope of current science.

[sumedh 0]

Dear roohani sevadhari

 

You have quite a capacity to write things unrelated to questions again and again. Okay for one last time -- i am asking why does your god send the souls to this drama. I am not asking what happens in this drama and what we should do etc. My simple question is why does your god send the souls here. Is there anything lacking in the soul world? or are the souls not happy there. Another question is that what eventually happens to the souls who did not make "spiritual efforts" after your 5000 years -- do they go back to soul world you say...

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Sumedh,

OMshanti. You wrote,

--------------------------

i am asking why does your god send the souls to this drama. I am not asking what happens in this drama and what we should do etc. My simple question is why does your god send the souls here. Is there anything lacking in the soul world? or are the souls not happy there.

--------------------------

 

In this connection I would like to say that as per the knowledge given to us by God Shiva, He does not send any soul from the soul world. Each soul comes from the soul world to take birth in this world as per its preordained role in this unlimited drama. It is just like the songs or movies recorded in vcds or audio cassettes. The main thing lacking in the soul world is both physical and subtle body. In the soulworld the souls are like non-living objects without the experience of pleasure or pain. Only when they assume a body-like dress on this world drama stage that they are able to experiences pleasure or pain. So there is no question of souls being happy there. Happiness is experienced only through this body in this world.

 

You further asked:

--------------------------

Another question is that what eventually happens to the souls who did not make "spiritual efforts" after your 5000 years -- do they go back to soul world you say...

--------------------------

 

IN this connection I would like to say that at the end of the 5000 years cycle, i.e. at the end of present confluence age, those souls who have not made enough spiritual efforts (purusharth) to enter into heaven at any point of the2500 years period, will become pure through punishments in the form of world wars, civil wars, natural calamities and then return to the soul world. They stay in the incorporeal stage in the soulworld for that period or more. And when the dwaparyug begins they enter into this world either in that age or in the last age i.e. Kaliyug.

Many souls have the role of just one birth in this cycle of 84 births.

With regards,

ON Godly service,

Roohani sevadhari,

Prajapita Brahmakumar

[Guest guest]

 

In this connection I would like to say that as per the knowledge given to us by God Shiva, He does not send any soul from the soul world.

 

 

What is the proof for your imaginary god's existence ?

 

Are you trying to avoid my question like a typical cheater ?

 

I think this is what your teachers taught you. When cornered with questions just evade those questions and thus cheat them.

 

Why is it that only your fakeraj allegedly saw this so called nirakar shiva ? Nobody heard of this fake philosophy before your fakeraj. Why ?

 

Is it not logical that this guy fakeraj misguided or perhaps a cheater ?