Guest guest Report post Posted March 30, 2009 The Church openly admits that it has adopted the old religion as a means of appeasing the natives. Built the new sanctuaries on the old sacred sites, etc. Bighid of Ireland became St. Brigit,...etc,etc,.. Besides, Voudoun and Santeria have no problem with it. Bill- in Utah , Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: > > Well, I did once go to a talk by a vicar who claimed that the relationship > we have with Jesus should be the same as the one we have with our husband / > wife. I suspect he was confused... but it certainly shed a new light on > Christianity for me :-) > > BB > Peter > > > 2009/3/30 Blue Rose <bluerose156 > > > Given Beltaine, perhaps Mary Magdalene. > > > > Unless Jesus has gone Oedipal on our asses. > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Dena Jo <DenaJo2 wrote: > > > >> Wow! I never before made the connection between Jesus and Mary and the > >> God and Goddess... How did I not see that? > >> > >> > >> - DJ > >> > >> ----------------------- > >> Always remember: Today's mighty oak is simply > >> yesterday's nut that held its ground... > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> ** *On > >> Behalf Of *shinobibombay > >> *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 5:56 AM > >> *To:* > >> *Subject:* Re: Hi I am new to this > >> > >> Hi, Katie. > >> For the record. I am no longer Wiccan. Although, I am still very Wiccan > >> friendly and sympathetic. I WAS Wiccan from about 1978 ( when I may have > >> been a " whoopie " Witch. I got more serious as time went on. I am now > >> Catholic as of about 6 years or so a go. (don't freak out! I have my > >> reasons!)I have forgot nothing. And still follow much of the ideals. I just > >> prefer Mary and Jesus and the saints as my god-forms. Although, admitting > >> this may get me labeled as a heretic. > >> My point was more along the lines of being Vegan. And there may be > >> " whoopie Vegans, too! > >> All generations have their styles. " Flower child " , punk, emo, mods, > >> retro,... whatever.Trust me,... I HATE " labels " . I know that when you are a > >> serious " Type " then the posers can be annoying. I think that during the > >> growing process of becoming anything we all go through phases. In time, the > >> true Witches and/or Vegans (not necessarily the same thing although > >> embracing similar sensibilities) will flourish and the wannabes will be > >> naturally weeded out. > >> > >> I am hoping that the more positive aspects of all this can be emphasized > >> and the negative terrorist/unpatriotic/anti-social aspects of BOTH movements > >> can be downplayed by those of us who understand what it is we are truly > >> trying to accomplish here. Which, I think, is a long term sustainable > >> planet! > >> Like the )O( by the way! > >> > >> Oh,... and 'kudos' for not trying to change the hubbie. I would've > >> resisted it myself. Besides, I remember the camaraderie of the so-called > >> " male mysteries " , with all the wild-man stuff etc... > >> > >> Bill- in Utah > >> > >> <%40>, katie > >> scott <east_watch@> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > Hi my kids are 5 and 19 months, and my husband is not a vegan and I will > >> not forces him to be. I like him just the way he is. > >> > > >> > Bill I think I have a word for you it is used up here to distinguish the > >> fake witchy Goths from the rest of the Wiccans around here. " whoopee " vegan. > >> this handy word can be put on any person that is fake or is doing the action > >> to get attention or is phasing. > >> > > >> > feel free to pass it around. > >> > > >> > katie )O( > >> > > >> > Bill wrought > >> > > >> > " There is a stigma attached to the word " vegan " here in Utah. It seems > >> the the Mormon youth have taken it to the extreme; calling themselves > >> 'straightedgers' and acting more like skinhead punks. Beating people up for > >> eating meat and damaging peoples property and setting the minks free and > >> stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love the sex pistols and the ramones,et al..., > >> and I am very much an animal welfare advocate. But, the wannabe > >> gangsta/Peta/ Greenpeace people have made us appear like anarchists and > >> terrorists in the local governments eyes. > >> > > >> > Bill- in Utah > >> > > >> > If it runs away from you because it doesn't want to die and has a > >> mommy,... I don't want to eat it. " > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > > ~ > > Boston_Gothic > > Boston_Mystic > > Boston-Pagans > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 Um...you can't. The goddess and the god " get it on " at Beltaine. What do you think the Great Rite is?On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 5:33 PM, shinobibombay <shinobibombay wrote: Think of it more as a Isis -Horus relationship, please... Bill-in Utah , Blue Rose <bluerose156 wrote: > > Given Beltaine, perhaps Mary Magdalene. > > Unless Jesus has gone Oedipal on our asses. > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Dena Jo <DenaJo2 wrote: > > > Wow! I never before made the connection between Jesus and Mary and the > > God and Goddess... How did I not see that? > > > > > > - DJ > > > > ----------------------- > > Always remember: Today's mighty oak is simply > > yesterday's nut that held its ground... > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > ** *On > > Behalf Of *shinobibombay > > *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 5:56 AM > > *To:* > > *Subject:* Re: Hi I am new to this > > > > Hi, Katie. > > For the record. I am no longer Wiccan. Although, I am still very Wiccan > > friendly and sympathetic. I WAS Wiccan from about 1978 ( when I may have > > been a " whoopie " Witch. I got more serious as time went on. I am now > > Catholic as of about 6 years or so a go. (don't freak out! I have my > > reasons!)I have forgot nothing. And still follow much of the ideals. I just > > prefer Mary and Jesus and the saints as my god-forms. Although, admitting > > this may get me labeled as a heretic. > > My point was more along the lines of being Vegan. And there may be " whoopie > > Vegans, too! > > All generations have their styles. " Flower child " , punk, emo, mods, > > retro,... whatever.Trust me,... I HATE " labels " . I know that when you are a > > serious " Type " then the posers can be annoying. I think that during the > > growing process of becoming anything we all go through phases. In time, the > > true Witches and/or Vegans (not necessarily the same thing although > > embracing similar sensibilities) will flourish and the wannabes will be > > naturally weeded out. > > > > I am hoping that the more positive aspects of all this can be emphasized > > and the negative terrorist/unpatriotic/anti-social aspects of BOTH movements > > can be downplayed by those of us who understand what it is we are truly > > trying to accomplish here. Which, I think, is a long term sustainable > > planet! > > Like the )O( by the way! > > > > Oh,... and 'kudos' for not trying to change the hubbie. I would've resisted > > it myself. Besides, I remember the camaraderie of the so-called " male > > mysteries " , with all the wild-man stuff etc... > > > > Bill- in Utah > > > > <%40>, katie > > scott <east_watch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi my kids are 5 and 19 months, and my husband is not a vegan and I will > > not forces him to be. I like him just the way he is. > > > > > > Bill I think I have a word for you it is used up here to distinguish the > > fake witchy Goths from the rest of the Wiccans around here. " whoopee " vegan. > > this handy word can be put on any person that is fake or is doing the action > > to get attention or is phasing. > > > > > > feel free to pass it around. > > > > > > katie )O( > > > > > > Bill wrought > > > > > > " There is a stigma attached to the word " vegan " here in Utah. It seems > > the the Mormon youth have taken it to the extreme; calling themselves > > 'straightedgers' and acting more like skinhead punks. Beating people up for > > eating meat and damaging peoples property and setting the minks free and > > stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love the sex pistols and the ramones,et al..., > > and I am very much an animal welfare advocate. But, the wannabe > > gangsta/Peta/ Greenpeace people have made us appear like anarchists and > > terrorists in the local governments eyes. > > > > > > Bill- in Utah > > > > > > If it runs away from you because it doesn't want to die and has a > > mommy,... I don't want to eat it. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > ~ > Boston_Gothic > Boston_Mystic > Boston-Pagans > --- To send an email to -! Groups Links <*> / <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: /join ( ID required) <*> To change settings via email: -digest -fullfeatured <*> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 Granted. Point taken. However, they do have a kid don't they? There are a lot of themes in the various traditions of paganism. And while ol'Horney and Big Mama (I mean that affectionately)do the horizontal bop, they are regenerating the earth,no? You can think of Christ as a version of Llew Llaw Gyffes. Or some other solar deity reborn at the winter solstice.(for the record the church conveniently moved the birth to coincide with the celebration by the early pagans). The only real difference is the tradition it came from, the location and civilization at the time and the interpretation of the events as Christianity evolved. Personally, I think it jibes quite nicely. Everyone knows that bunnies don't lay eggs at Easter. And Christmas trees are a Pagan tradition. Yet, the Christians still do these things. Words and events change meaning over time. There are many " Madonna " figures of Pagan origin which the church has incorporated. And who is to say that the Goddess isn't eternally Virgin? At least in purity of spirit,... since She is divine. Bill-in Utah , Blue Rose <bluerose156 wrote: > > Um...you can't. The goddess and the god " get it on " at Beltaine. What do you > think the Great Rite is? > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 5:33 PM, shinobibombay <shinobibombaywrote: > > > Think of it more as a Isis -Horus relationship, please... > > > > Bill-in Utah > > > > , Blue Rose <bluerose156@> wrote: > > > > > > Given Beltaine, perhaps Mary Magdalene. > > > > > > Unless Jesus has gone Oedipal on our asses. > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Dena Jo <DenaJo2@> wrote: > > > > > > > Wow! I never before made the connection between Jesus and Mary and > > the > > > > God and Goddess... How did I not see that? > > > > > > > > > > > > - DJ > > > > > > > > ----------------------- > > > > Always remember: Today's mighty oak is simply > > > > yesterday's nut that held its ground... > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > ** > > *On > > > > Behalf Of *shinobibombay > > > > *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 5:56 AM > > > > *To:* > > > > *Subject:* Re: Hi I am new to this > > > > > > > > Hi, Katie. > > > > For the record. I am no longer Wiccan. Although, I am still very Wiccan > > > > friendly and sympathetic. I WAS Wiccan from about 1978 ( when I may > > have > > > > been a " whoopie " Witch. I got more serious as time went on. I am now > > > > Catholic as of about 6 years or so a go. (don't freak out! I have my > > > > reasons!)I have forgot nothing. And still follow much of the ideals. I > > just > > > > prefer Mary and Jesus and the saints as my god-forms. Although, > > admitting > > > > this may get me labeled as a heretic. > > > > My point was more along the lines of being Vegan. And there may be > > " whoopie > > > > Vegans, too! > > > > All generations have their styles. " Flower child " , punk, emo, mods, > > > > retro,... whatever.Trust me,... I HATE " labels " . I know that when you > > are a > > > > serious " Type " then the posers can be annoying. I think that during the > > > > growing process of becoming anything we all go through phases. In time, > > the > > > > true Witches and/or Vegans (not necessarily the same thing although > > > > embracing similar sensibilities) will flourish and the wannabes will be > > > > naturally weeded out. > > > > > > > > I am hoping that the more positive aspects of all this can be > > emphasized > > > > and the negative terrorist/unpatriotic/anti-social aspects of BOTH > > movements > > > > can be downplayed by those of us who understand what it is we are truly > > > > trying to accomplish here. Which, I think, is a long term sustainable > > > > planet! > > > > Like the )O( by the way! > > > > > > > > Oh,... and 'kudos' for not trying to change the hubbie. I would've > > resisted > > > > it myself. Besides, I remember the camaraderie of the so-called " male > > > > mysteries " , with all the wild-man stuff etc... > > > > > > > > Bill- in Utah > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > katie > > > > scott <east_watch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi my kids are 5 and 19 months, and my husband is not a vegan and I > > will > > > > not forces him to be. I like him just the way he is. > > > > > > > > > > Bill I think I have a word for you it is used up here to distinguish > > the > > > > fake witchy Goths from the rest of the Wiccans around here. " whoopee " > > vegan. > > > > this handy word can be put on any person that is fake or is doing the > > action > > > > to get attention or is phasing. > > > > > > > > > > feel free to pass it around. > > > > > > > > > > katie )O( > > > > > > > > > > Bill wrought > > > > > > > > > > " There is a stigma attached to the word " vegan " here in Utah. It > > seems > > > > the the Mormon youth have taken it to the extreme; calling themselves > > > > 'straightedgers' and acting more like skinhead punks. Beating people up > > for > > > > eating meat and damaging peoples property and setting the minks free > > and > > > > stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love the sex pistols and the ramones,et > > al..., > > > > and I am very much an animal welfare advocate. But, the wannabe > > > > gangsta/Peta/ Greenpeace people have made us appear like anarchists and > > > > terrorists in the local governments eyes. > > > > > > > > > > Bill- in Utah > > > > > > > > > > If it runs away from you because it doesn't want to die and has a > > > > mommy,... I don't want to eat it. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > > > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > > > ~ > > > Boston_Gothic > > > Boston_Mystic > > > Boston-Pagans > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > To send an email to -! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > -- > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > ~ > Boston_Gothic > Boston_Mystic > Boston-Pagans > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 Right. But she's not *just* a Virgin is my point. Try asking a Catholic what they'd think of the Virgin Mary getting it on with her son, and you'll probably get *very* interesting reactions.Personally the whole idea of the virgin woman as being " pure of spirit " is a bunch of dysfunctional, misogynist BS to me, but I wasn't raised in a Christian household and hence have a very different take on sex and spirituality. On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:15 PM, shinobibombay <shinobibombay wrote: Granted. Point taken. However, they do have a kid don't they? There are a lot of themes in the various traditions of paganism. And while ol'Horney and Big Mama (I mean that affectionately)do the horizontal bop, they are regenerating the earth,no? You can think of Christ as a version of Llew Llaw Gyffes. Or some other solar deity reborn at the winter solstice.(for the record the church conveniently moved the birth to coincide with the celebration by the early pagans). The only real difference is the tradition it came from, the location and civilization at the time and the interpretation of the events as Christianity evolved. Personally, I think it jibes quite nicely. Everyone knows that bunnies don't lay eggs at Easter. And Christmas trees are a Pagan tradition. Yet, the Christians still do these things. Words and events change meaning over time. There are many " Madonna " figures of Pagan origin which the church has incorporated. And who is to say that the Goddess isn't eternally Virgin? At least in purity of spirit,... since She is divine. Bill-in Utah , Blue Rose <bluerose156 wrote: > > Um...you can't. The goddess and the god " get it on " at Beltaine. What do you > think the Great Rite is? > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 5:33 PM, shinobibombay <shinobibombaywrote: > > > Think of it more as a Isis -Horus relationship, please... > > > > Bill-in Utah > > > > , Blue Rose <bluerose156@> wrote: > > > > > > Given Beltaine, perhaps Mary Magdalene. > > > > > > Unless Jesus has gone Oedipal on our asses. > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Dena Jo <DenaJo2@> wrote: > > > > > > > Wow! I never before made the connection between Jesus and Mary and > > the > > > > God and Goddess... How did I not see that? > > > > > > > > > > > > - DJ > > > > > > > > ----------------------- > > > > Always remember: Today's mighty oak is simply > > > > yesterday's nut that held its ground... > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > ** > > *On > > > > Behalf Of *shinobibombay > > > > *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 5:56 AM > > > > *To:* > > > > *Subject:* Re: Hi I am new to this > > > > > > > > Hi, Katie. > > > > For the record. I am no longer Wiccan. Although, I am still very Wiccan > > > > friendly and sympathetic. I WAS Wiccan from about 1978 ( when I may > > have > > > > been a " whoopie " Witch. I got more serious as time went on. I am now > > > > Catholic as of about 6 years or so a go. (don't freak out! I have my > > > > reasons!)I have forgot nothing. And still follow much of the ideals. I > > just > > > > prefer Mary and Jesus and the saints as my god-forms. Although, > > admitting > > > > this may get me labeled as a heretic. > > > > My point was more along the lines of being Vegan. And there may be > > " whoopie > > > > Vegans, too! > > > > All generations have their styles. " Flower child " , punk, emo, mods, > > > > retro,... whatever.Trust me,... I HATE " labels " . I know that when you > > are a > > > > serious " Type " then the posers can be annoying. I think that during the > > > > growing process of becoming anything we all go through phases. In time, > > the > > > > true Witches and/or Vegans (not necessarily the same thing although > > > > embracing similar sensibilities) will flourish and the wannabes will be > > > > naturally weeded out. > > > > > > > > I am hoping that the more positive aspects of all this can be > > emphasized > > > > and the negative terrorist/unpatriotic/anti-social aspects of BOTH > > movements > > > > can be downplayed by those of us who understand what it is we are truly > > > > trying to accomplish here. Which, I think, is a long term sustainable > > > > planet! > > > > Like the )O( by the way! > > > > > > > > Oh,... and 'kudos' for not trying to change the hubbie. I would've > > resisted > > > > it myself. Besides, I remember the camaraderie of the so-called " male > > > > mysteries " , with all the wild-man stuff etc... > > > > > > > > Bill- in Utah > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > katie > > > > scott <east_watch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi my kids are 5 and 19 months, and my husband is not a vegan and I > > will > > > > not forces him to be. I like him just the way he is. > > > > > > > > > > Bill I think I have a word for you it is used up here to distinguish > > the > > > > fake witchy Goths from the rest of the Wiccans around here. " whoopee " > > vegan. > > > > this handy word can be put on any person that is fake or is doing the > > action > > > > to get attention or is phasing. > > > > > > > > > > feel free to pass it around. > > > > > > > > > > katie )O( > > > > > > > > > > Bill wrought > > > > > > > > > > " There is a stigma attached to the word " vegan " here in Utah. It > > seems > > > > the the Mormon youth have taken it to the extreme; calling themselves > > > > 'straightedgers' and acting more like skinhead punks. Beating people up > > for > > > > eating meat and damaging peoples property and setting the minks free > > and > > > > stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love the sex pistols and the ramones,et > > al..., > > > > and I am very much an animal welfare advocate. But, the wannabe > > > > gangsta/Peta/ Greenpeace people have made us appear like anarchists and > > > > terrorists in the local governments eyes. > > > > > > > > > > Bill- in Utah > > > > > > > > > > If it runs away from you because it doesn't want to die and has a > > > > mommy,... I don't want to eat it. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > > > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > > > ~ > > > Boston_Gothic > > > Boston_Mystic > > > Boston-Pagans > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > To send an email to -! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > -- > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > ~ > Boston_Gothic > Boston_Mystic > Boston-Pagans > --- To send an email to -! Groups Links <*> / <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: /join ( ID required) <*> To change settings via email: -digest -fullfeatured <*> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 I do understand where you are coming from. And, no, I would not suggest these ideas to a lay Catholic. The priests are pretty educated, having to study comparative religions and all that. It takes a little reconciling. But, i have never known a Pagan to take their mythology/thea/ology as literal as most Christians do. Particularly the more fundamentalist types. Bill-in Utah (where the bloody mormons rule) In , Blue Rose <bluerose156 wrote: > > Right. But she's not *just* a Virgin is my point. Try asking a Catholic what > they'd think of the Virgin Mary getting it on with her son, and you'll > probably get *very* interesting reactions. > > Personally the whole idea of the virgin woman as being " pure of spirit " is a > bunch of dysfunctional, misogynist BS to me, but I wasn't raised in a > Christian household and hence have a very different take on sex and > spirituality. > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:15 PM, shinobibombay <shinobibombaywrote: > > > Granted. Point taken. However, they do have a kid don't they? There are a > > lot of themes in the various traditions of paganism. And while ol'Horney and > > Big Mama (I mean that affectionately)do the horizontal bop, they are > > regenerating the earth,no? You can think of Christ as a version of Llew Llaw > > Gyffes. Or some other solar deity reborn at the winter solstice.(for the > > record the church conveniently moved the birth to coincide with the > > celebration by the early pagans). The only real difference is the tradition > > it came from, the location and civilization at the time and the > > interpretation of the events as Christianity evolved. Personally, I think it > > jibes quite nicely. > > Everyone knows that bunnies don't lay eggs at Easter. And Christmas trees > > are a Pagan tradition. Yet, the Christians still do these things. Words and > > events change meaning over time. There are many " Madonna " figures of Pagan > > origin which the church has incorporated. And who is to say that the Goddess > > isn't eternally Virgin? At least in purity of spirit,... since She is > > divine. > > > > Bill-in Utah > > > > , Blue Rose <bluerose156@> wrote: > > > > > > Um...you can't. The goddess and the god " get it on " at Beltaine. What do > > you > > > think the Great Rite is? > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 5:33 PM, shinobibombay <shinobibombay@>wrote: > > > > > > > Think of it more as a Isis -Horus relationship, please... > > > > > > > > Bill-in Utah > > > > > > > > , Blue Rose <bluerose156@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Given Beltaine, perhaps Mary Magdalene. > > > > > > > > > > Unless Jesus has gone Oedipal on our asses. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Dena Jo <DenaJo2@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Wow! I never before made the connection between Jesus and Mary > > and > > > > the > > > > > > God and Goddess... How did I not see that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - DJ > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- > > > > > > Always remember: Today's mighty oak is simply > > > > > > yesterday's nut that held its ground... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > ** [ > > ] > > > > *On > > > > > > Behalf Of *shinobibombay > > > > > > *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 5:56 AM > > > > > > *To:* > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Hi I am new to this > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Katie. > > > > > > For the record. I am no longer Wiccan. Although, I am still very > > Wiccan > > > > > > friendly and sympathetic. I WAS Wiccan from about 1978 ( when I may > > > > have > > > > > > been a " whoopie " Witch. I got more serious as time went on. I am > > now > > > > > > Catholic as of about 6 years or so a go. (don't freak out! I have > > my > > > > > > reasons!)I have forgot nothing. And still follow much of the > > ideals. I > > > > just > > > > > > prefer Mary and Jesus and the saints as my god-forms. Although, > > > > admitting > > > > > > this may get me labeled as a heretic. > > > > > > My point was more along the lines of being Vegan. And there may be > > > > " whoopie > > > > > > Vegans, too! > > > > > > All generations have their styles. " Flower child " , punk, emo, mods, > > > > > > retro,... whatever.Trust me,... I HATE " labels " . I know that when > > you > > > > are a > > > > > > serious " Type " then the posers can be annoying. I think that during > > the > > > > > > growing process of becoming anything we all go through phases. In > > time, > > > > the > > > > > > true Witches and/or Vegans (not necessarily the same thing although > > > > > > embracing similar sensibilities) will flourish and the wannabes > > will be > > > > > > naturally weeded out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am hoping that the more positive aspects of all this can be > > > > emphasized > > > > > > and the negative terrorist/unpatriotic/anti-social aspects of BOTH > > > > movements > > > > > > can be downplayed by those of us who understand what it is we are > > truly > > > > > > trying to accomplish here. Which, I think, is a long term > > sustainable > > > > > > planet! > > > > > > Like the )O( by the way! > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh,... and 'kudos' for not trying to change the hubbie. I would've > > > > resisted > > > > > > it myself. Besides, I remember the camaraderie of the so-called > > " male > > > > > > mysteries " , with all the wild-man stuff etc... > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill- in Utah > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > katie > > > > > > scott <east_watch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi my kids are 5 and 19 months, and my husband is not a vegan and > > I > > > > will > > > > > > not forces him to be. I like him just the way he is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill I think I have a word for you it is used up here to > > distinguish > > > > the > > > > > > fake witchy Goths from the rest of the Wiccans around here. > > " whoopee " > > > > vegan. > > > > > > this handy word can be put on any person that is fake or is doing > > the > > > > action > > > > > > to get attention or is phasing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > feel free to pass it around. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > katie )O( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill wrought > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " There is a stigma attached to the word " vegan " here in Utah. It > > > > seems > > > > > > the the Mormon youth have taken it to the extreme; calling > > themselves > > > > > > 'straightedgers' and acting more like skinhead punks. Beating > > people up > > > > for > > > > > > eating meat and damaging peoples property and setting the minks > > free > > > > and > > > > > > stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love the sex pistols and the > > ramones,et > > > > al..., > > > > > > and I am very much an animal welfare advocate. But, the wannabe > > > > > > gangsta/Peta/ Greenpeace people have made us appear like anarchists > > and > > > > > > terrorists in the local governments eyes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill- in Utah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it runs away from you because it doesn't want to die and has a > > > > > > mommy,... I don't want to eat it. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > > > > > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > > > > > ~ > > > > > Boston_Gothic > > > > > Boston_Mystic > > > > > Boston-Pagans > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > To send an email to -@! > > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > > > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > > > ~ > > > Boston_Gothic > > > Boston_Mystic > > > Boston-Pagans > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > To send an email to -! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > -- > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > ~ > Boston_Gothic > Boston_Mystic > Boston-Pagans > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 I definitely don't take mine literally, but if the symbolism has no meaning, then what's the point?In my pantheon we have virgin goddesses, mothers, wives, women who get it on and love it, et cetera. There's a nice, wide range; none of that " sex is bad " stuff. On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:59 PM, shinobibombay <shinobibombay wrote: I do understand where you are coming from. And, no, I would not suggest these ideas to a lay Catholic. The priests are pretty educated, having to study comparative religions and all that. It takes a little reconciling. But, i have never known a Pagan to take their mythology/thea/ology as literal as most Christians do. Particularly the more fundamentalist types. Bill-in Utah (where the bloody mormons rule) In , Blue Rose <bluerose156 wrote: > > Right. But she's not *just* a Virgin is my point. Try asking a Catholic what > they'd think of the Virgin Mary getting it on with her son, and you'll > probably get *very* interesting reactions. > > Personally the whole idea of the virgin woman as being " pure of spirit " is a > bunch of dysfunctional, misogynist BS to me, but I wasn't raised in a > Christian household and hence have a very different take on sex and > spirituality. > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:15 PM, shinobibombay <shinobibombaywrote: > > > Granted. Point taken. However, they do have a kid don't they? There are a > > lot of themes in the various traditions of paganism. And while ol'Horney and > > Big Mama (I mean that affectionately)do the horizontal bop, they are > > regenerating the earth,no? You can think of Christ as a version of Llew Llaw > > Gyffes. Or some other solar deity reborn at the winter solstice.(for the > > record the church conveniently moved the birth to coincide with the > > celebration by the early pagans). The only real difference is the tradition > > it came from, the location and civilization at the time and the > > interpretation of the events as Christianity evolved. Personally, I think it > > jibes quite nicely. > > Everyone knows that bunnies don't lay eggs at Easter. And Christmas trees > > are a Pagan tradition. Yet, the Christians still do these things. Words and > > events change meaning over time. There are many " Madonna " figures of Pagan > > origin which the church has incorporated. And who is to say that the Goddess > > isn't eternally Virgin? At least in purity of spirit,... since She is > > divine. > > > > Bill-in Utah > > > > , Blue Rose <bluerose156@> wrote: > > > > > > Um...you can't. The goddess and the god " get it on " at Beltaine. What do > > you > > > think the Great Rite is? > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 5:33 PM, shinobibombay <shinobibombay@>wrote: > > > > > > > Think of it more as a Isis -Horus relationship, please... > > > > > > > > Bill-in Utah > > > > > > > > , Blue Rose <bluerose156@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Given Beltaine, perhaps Mary Magdalene. > > > > > > > > > > Unless Jesus has gone Oedipal on our asses. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Dena Jo <DenaJo2@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Wow! I never before made the connection between Jesus and Mary > > and > > > > the > > > > > > God and Goddess... How did I not see that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - DJ > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- > > > > > > Always remember: Today's mighty oak is simply > > > > > > yesterday's nut that held its ground... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > ** [ > > ] > > > > *On > > > > > > Behalf Of *shinobibombay > > > > > > *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 5:56 AM > > > > > > *To:* > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Hi I am new to this > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Katie. > > > > > > For the record. I am no longer Wiccan. Although, I am still very > > Wiccan > > > > > > friendly and sympathetic. I WAS Wiccan from about 1978 ( when I may > > > > have > > > > > > been a " whoopie " Witch. I got more serious as time went on. I am > > now > > > > > > Catholic as of about 6 years or so a go. (don't freak out! I have > > my > > > > > > reasons!)I have forgot nothing. And still follow much of the > > ideals. I > > > > just > > > > > > prefer Mary and Jesus and the saints as my god-forms. Although, > > > > admitting > > > > > > this may get me labeled as a heretic. > > > > > > My point was more along the lines of being Vegan. And there may be > > > > " whoopie > > > > > > Vegans, too! > > > > > > All generations have their styles. " Flower child " , punk, emo, mods, > > > > > > retro,... whatever.Trust me,... I HATE " labels " . I know that when > > you > > > > are a > > > > > > serious " Type " then the posers can be annoying. I think that during > > the > > > > > > growing process of becoming anything we all go through phases. In > > time, > > > > the > > > > > > true Witches and/or Vegans (not necessarily the same thing although > > > > > > embracing similar sensibilities) will flourish and the wannabes > > will be > > > > > > naturally weeded out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am hoping that the more positive aspects of all this can be > > > > emphasized > > > > > > and the negative terrorist/unpatriotic/anti-social aspects of BOTH > > > > movements > > > > > > can be downplayed by those of us who understand what it is we are > > truly > > > > > > trying to accomplish here. Which, I think, is a long term > > sustainable > > > > > > planet! > > > > > > Like the )O( by the way! > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh,... and 'kudos' for not trying to change the hubbie. I would've > > > > resisted > > > > > > it myself. Besides, I remember the camaraderie of the so-called > > " male > > > > > > mysteries " , with all the wild-man stuff etc... > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill- in Utah > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > katie > > > > > > scott <east_watch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi my kids are 5 and 19 months, and my husband is not a vegan and > > I > > > > will > > > > > > not forces him to be. I like him just the way he is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill I think I have a word for you it is used up here to > > distinguish > > > > the > > > > > > fake witchy Goths from the rest of the Wiccans around here. > > " whoopee " > > > > vegan. > > > > > > this handy word can be put on any person that is fake or is doing > > the > > > > action > > > > > > to get attention or is phasing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > feel free to pass it around. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > katie )O( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill wrought > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " There is a stigma attached to the word " vegan " here in Utah. It > > > > seems > > > > > > the the Mormon youth have taken it to the extreme; calling > > themselves > > > > > > 'straightedgers' and acting more like skinhead punks. Beating > > people up > > > > for > > > > > > eating meat and damaging peoples property and setting the minks > > free > > > > and > > > > > > stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love the sex pistols and the > > ramones,et > > > > al..., > > > > > > and I am very much an animal welfare advocate. But, the wannabe > > > > > > gangsta/Peta/ Greenpeace people have made us appear like anarchists > > and > > > > > > terrorists in the local governments eyes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill- in Utah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it runs away from you because it doesn't want to die and has a > > > > > > mommy,... I don't want to eat it. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > > > > > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > > > > > ~ > > > > > Boston_Gothic > > > > > Boston_Mystic > > > > > Boston-Pagans > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > To send an email to -@! > > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > > > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > > > ~ > > > Boston_Gothic > > > Boston_Mystic > > > Boston-Pagans > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > To send an email to -! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > -- > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > ~ > Boston_Gothic > Boston_Mystic > Boston-Pagans > --- To send an email to -! Groups Links <*> / <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: /join ( ID required) <*> To change settings via email: -digest -fullfeatured <*> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 I wonder what sort of relationship he has! BB Jo , Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: > > Well, I did once go to a talk by a vicar who claimed that the relationship > we have with Jesus should be the same as the one we have with our husband / > wife. I suspect he was confused... but it certainly shed a new light on > Christianity for me :-) > > BB > Peter > > > 2009/3/30 Blue Rose <bluerose156 > > > Given Beltaine, perhaps Mary Magdalene. > > > > Unless Jesus has gone Oedipal on our asses. > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Dena Jo <DenaJo2 wrote: > > > >> Wow! I never before made the connection between Jesus and Mary and the > >> God and Goddess... How did I not see that? > >> > >> > >> - DJ > >> > >> ----------------------- > >> Always remember: Today's mighty oak is simply > >> yesterday's nut that held its ground... > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> ** *On > >> Behalf Of *shinobibombay > >> *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 5:56 AM > >> *To:* > >> *Subject:* Re: Hi I am new to this > >> > >> Hi, Katie. > >> For the record. I am no longer Wiccan. Although, I am still very Wiccan > >> friendly and sympathetic. I WAS Wiccan from about 1978 ( when I may have > >> been a " whoopie " Witch. I got more serious as time went on. I am now > >> Catholic as of about 6 years or so a go. (don't freak out! I have my > >> reasons!)I have forgot nothing. And still follow much of the ideals. I just > >> prefer Mary and Jesus and the saints as my god-forms. Although, admitting > >> this may get me labeled as a heretic. > >> My point was more along the lines of being Vegan. And there may be > >> " whoopie Vegans, too! > >> All generations have their styles. " Flower child " , punk, emo, mods, > >> retro,... whatever.Trust me,... I HATE " labels " . I know that when you are a > >> serious " Type " then the posers can be annoying. I think that during the > >> growing process of becoming anything we all go through phases. In time, the > >> true Witches and/or Vegans (not necessarily the same thing although > >> embracing similar sensibilities) will flourish and the wannabes will be > >> naturally weeded out. > >> > >> I am hoping that the more positive aspects of all this can be emphasized > >> and the negative terrorist/unpatriotic/anti-social aspects of BOTH movements > >> can be downplayed by those of us who understand what it is we are truly > >> trying to accomplish here. Which, I think, is a long term sustainable > >> planet! > >> Like the )O( by the way! > >> > >> Oh,... and 'kudos' for not trying to change the hubbie. I would've > >> resisted it myself. Besides, I remember the camaraderie of the so-called > >> " male mysteries " , with all the wild-man stuff etc... > >> > >> Bill- in Utah > >> > >> <%40>, katie > >> scott <east_watch@> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > Hi my kids are 5 and 19 months, and my husband is not a vegan and I will > >> not forces him to be. I like him just the way he is. > >> > > >> > Bill I think I have a word for you it is used up here to distinguish the > >> fake witchy Goths from the rest of the Wiccans around here. " whoopee " vegan. > >> this handy word can be put on any person that is fake or is doing the action > >> to get attention or is phasing. > >> > > >> > feel free to pass it around. > >> > > >> > katie )O( > >> > > >> > Bill wrought > >> > > >> > " There is a stigma attached to the word " vegan " here in Utah. It seems > >> the the Mormon youth have taken it to the extreme; calling themselves > >> 'straightedgers' and acting more like skinhead punks. Beating people up for > >> eating meat and damaging peoples property and setting the minks free and > >> stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love the sex pistols and the ramones,et al..., > >> and I am very much an animal welfare advocate. But, the wannabe > >> gangsta/Peta/ Greenpeace people have made us appear like anarchists and > >> terrorists in the local governments eyes. > >> > > >> > Bill- in Utah > >> > > >> > If it runs away from you because it doesn't want to die and has a > >> mommy,... I don't want to eat it. " > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > > ~ > > Boston_Gothic > > Boston_Mystic > > Boston-Pagans > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 This is where I think Pagans and Christians vary. You say 'eternal virgin - pure in spirit'. I don't buy into this theory of being impure once having had a sexual relationship. Jo , " shinobibombay " <shinobibombay wrote: > > Granted. Point taken. However, they do have a kid don't they? There are a lot of themes in the various traditions of paganism. And while ol'Horney and Big Mama (I mean that affectionately)do the horizontal bop, they are regenerating the earth,no? You can think of Christ as a version of Llew Llaw Gyffes. Or some other solar deity reborn at the winter solstice.(for the record the church conveniently moved the birth to coincide with the celebration by the early pagans). The only real difference is the tradition it came from, the location and civilization at the time and the interpretation of the events as Christianity evolved. Personally, I think it jibes quite nicely. > Everyone knows that bunnies don't lay eggs at Easter. And Christmas trees are a Pagan tradition. Yet, the Christians still do these things. Words and events change meaning over time. There are many " Madonna " figures of Pagan origin which the church has incorporated. And who is to say that the Goddess isn't eternally Virgin? At least in purity of spirit,... since She is divine. > > Bill-in Utah > > , Blue Rose <bluerose156@> wrote: > > > > Um...you can't. The goddess and the god " get it on " at Beltaine. What do you > > think the Great Rite is? > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 5:33 PM, shinobibombay <shinobibombay@>wrote: > > > > > Think of it more as a Isis -Horus relationship, please... > > > > > > Bill-in Utah > > > > > > , Blue Rose <bluerose156@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Given Beltaine, perhaps Mary Magdalene. > > > > > > > > Unless Jesus has gone Oedipal on our asses. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Dena Jo <DenaJo2@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow! I never before made the connection between Jesus and Mary and > > > the > > > > > God and Goddess... How did I not see that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - DJ > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- > > > > > Always remember: Today's mighty oak is simply > > > > > yesterday's nut that held its ground... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > ** > > > *On > > > > > Behalf Of *shinobibombay > > > > > *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 5:56 AM > > > > > *To:* > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Hi I am new to this > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Katie. > > > > > For the record. I am no longer Wiccan. Although, I am still very Wiccan > > > > > friendly and sympathetic. I WAS Wiccan from about 1978 ( when I may > > > have > > > > > been a " whoopie " Witch. I got more serious as time went on. I am now > > > > > Catholic as of about 6 years or so a go. (don't freak out! I have my > > > > > reasons!)I have forgot nothing. And still follow much of the ideals. I > > > just > > > > > prefer Mary and Jesus and the saints as my god-forms. Although, > > > admitting > > > > > this may get me labeled as a heretic. > > > > > My point was more along the lines of being Vegan. And there may be > > > " whoopie > > > > > Vegans, too! > > > > > All generations have their styles. " Flower child " , punk, emo, mods, > > > > > retro,... whatever.Trust me,... I HATE " labels " . I know that when you > > > are a > > > > > serious " Type " then the posers can be annoying. I think that during the > > > > > growing process of becoming anything we all go through phases. In time, > > > the > > > > > true Witches and/or Vegans (not necessarily the same thing although > > > > > embracing similar sensibilities) will flourish and the wannabes will be > > > > > naturally weeded out. > > > > > > > > > > I am hoping that the more positive aspects of all this can be > > > emphasized > > > > > and the negative terrorist/unpatriotic/anti-social aspects of BOTH > > > movements > > > > > can be downplayed by those of us who understand what it is we are truly > > > > > trying to accomplish here. Which, I think, is a long term sustainable > > > > > planet! > > > > > Like the )O( by the way! > > > > > > > > > > Oh,... and 'kudos' for not trying to change the hubbie. I would've > > > resisted > > > > > it myself. Besides, I remember the camaraderie of the so-called " male > > > > > mysteries " , with all the wild-man stuff etc... > > > > > > > > > > Bill- in Utah > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > katie > > > > > scott <east_watch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi my kids are 5 and 19 months, and my husband is not a vegan and I > > > will > > > > > not forces him to be. I like him just the way he is. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill I think I have a word for you it is used up here to distinguish > > > the > > > > > fake witchy Goths from the rest of the Wiccans around here. " whoopee " > > > vegan. > > > > > this handy word can be put on any person that is fake or is doing the > > > action > > > > > to get attention or is phasing. > > > > > > > > > > > > feel free to pass it around. > > > > > > > > > > > > katie )O( > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill wrought > > > > > > > > > > > > " There is a stigma attached to the word " vegan " here in Utah. It > > > seems > > > > > the the Mormon youth have taken it to the extreme; calling themselves > > > > > 'straightedgers' and acting more like skinhead punks. Beating people up > > > for > > > > > eating meat and damaging peoples property and setting the minks free > > > and > > > > > stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love the sex pistols and the ramones,et > > > al..., > > > > > and I am very much an animal welfare advocate. But, the wannabe > > > > > gangsta/Peta/ Greenpeace people have made us appear like anarchists and > > > > > terrorists in the local governments eyes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill- in Utah > > > > > > > > > > > > If it runs away from you because it doesn't want to die and has a > > > > > mommy,... I don't want to eat it. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > > > > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > > > > ~ > > > > Boston_Gothic > > > > Boston_Mystic > > > > Boston-Pagans > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > To send an email to -@! > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > > ~ > > Boston_Gothic > > Boston_Mystic > > Boston-Pagans > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 Hi Blue RoseThat depends entirely on your tradition... for many Wiccans the " Great Right " is all about hetero-normative sexuality, and very unwelcoming to homosexuals. Ask a Feri initiate, and they'll probably tell you about the Miria creation story. Ask a Reclaiming witch, and they'll talk about acknowldeging your own sexuality, and embracing your sexual self. Ask a Druid, and they'll probably talk about metaphors. I don't think you can say " The Great Right is...x, y, or z " , simply because it is different for each individual.BBPeter2009/3/31 Blue Rose <bluerose156 Um...you can't. The goddess and the god " get it on " at Beltaine. What do you think the Great Rite is? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 Hi JoNone... he gave us a big long talk on how " satisfying " sex was in various sorts of relationships, and then ended by announcing that he was a virgin. But then if he had those views on Jesus, I'm not surprised! BBPeter2009/3/31 heartwerk <jo.heartwork I wonder what sort of relationship he has! BB Jo , Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: > > Well, I did once go to a talk by a vicar who claimed that the relationship > we have with Jesus should be the same as the one we have with our husband / > wife. I suspect he was confused... but it certainly shed a new light on > Christianity for me :-) > > BB > Peter > > > 2009/3/30 Blue Rose <bluerose156 > > > Given Beltaine, perhaps Mary Magdalene. > > > > Unless Jesus has gone Oedipal on our asses. > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Dena Jo <DenaJo2 wrote: > > > >> Wow! I never before made the connection between Jesus and Mary and the > >> God and Goddess... How did I not see that? > >> > >> > >> - DJ > >> > >> ----------------------- > >> Always remember: Today's mighty oak is simply > >> yesterday's nut that held its ground... > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> ** *On > >> Behalf Of *shinobibombay > >> *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 5:56 AM > >> *To:* > >> *Subject:* Re: Hi I am new to this > >> > >> Hi, Katie. > >> For the record. I am no longer Wiccan. Although, I am still very Wiccan > >> friendly and sympathetic. I WAS Wiccan from about 1978 ( when I may have > >> been a " whoopie " Witch. I got more serious as time went on. I am now > >> Catholic as of about 6 years or so a go. (don't freak out! I have my > >> reasons!)I have forgot nothing. And still follow much of the ideals. I just > >> prefer Mary and Jesus and the saints as my god-forms. Although, admitting > >> this may get me labeled as a heretic. > >> My point was more along the lines of being Vegan. And there may be > >> " whoopie Vegans, too! > >> All generations have their styles. " Flower child " , punk, emo, mods, > >> retro,... whatever.Trust me,... I HATE " labels " . I know that when you are a > >> serious " Type " then the posers can be annoying. I think that during the > >> growing process of becoming anything we all go through phases. In time, the > >> true Witches and/or Vegans (not necessarily the same thing although > >> embracing similar sensibilities) will flourish and the wannabes will be > >> naturally weeded out. > >> > >> I am hoping that the more positive aspects of all this can be emphasized > >> and the negative terrorist/unpatriotic/anti-social aspects of BOTH movements > >> can be downplayed by those of us who understand what it is we are truly > >> trying to accomplish here. Which, I think, is a long term sustainable > >> planet! > >> Like the )O( by the way! > >> > >> Oh,... and 'kudos' for not trying to change the hubbie. I would've > >> resisted it myself. Besides, I remember the camaraderie of the so-called > >> " male mysteries " , with all the wild-man stuff etc... > >> > >> Bill- in Utah > >> > >> <%40>, katie > >> scott <east_watch@> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > Hi my kids are 5 and 19 months, and my husband is not a vegan and I will > >> not forces him to be. I like him just the way he is. > >> > > >> > Bill I think I have a word for you it is used up here to distinguish the > >> fake witchy Goths from the rest of the Wiccans around here. " whoopee " vegan. > >> this handy word can be put on any person that is fake or is doing the action > >> to get attention or is phasing. > >> > > >> > feel free to pass it around. > >> > > >> > katie )O( > >> > > >> > Bill wrought > >> > > >> > " There is a stigma attached to the word " vegan " here in Utah. It seems > >> the the Mormon youth have taken it to the extreme; calling themselves > >> 'straightedgers' and acting more like skinhead punks. Beating people up for > >> eating meat and damaging peoples property and setting the minks free and > >> stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love the sex pistols and the ramones,et al..., > >> and I am very much an animal welfare advocate. But, the wannabe > >> gangsta/Peta/ Greenpeace people have made us appear like anarchists and > >> terrorists in the local governments eyes. > >> > > >> > Bill- in Utah > >> > > >> > If it runs away from you because it doesn't want to die and has a > >> mommy,... I don't want to eat it. " > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > > ~ > > Boston_Gothic > > Boston_Mystic > > Boston-Pagans > > > > > > > > > --- To send an email to -! Groups Links <*> / <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: /join ( ID required) <*> To change settings via email: -digest -fullfeatured <*> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 Sex isn't bad. Catholics just ask that we take personal responsibility for our actions. It's all about common sense. Gee whiz,... How are we supposed to repopulate if sex is bad? Excess promiscuity with multiple partners is bad for you. Just like smoking cigarettes or drinking too much is bad for you. But, sex is not bad in and of it self. Bill-in Utah (With that legendary Vegan libido) , Blue Rose <bluerose156 wrote: > > I definitely don't take mine literally, but if the symbolism has no meaning, > then what's the point? > > In my pantheon we have virgin goddesses, mothers, wives, women who get it on > and love it, et cetera. There's a nice, wide range; none of that " sex is > bad " stuff. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 Holy orders, as a priest, monk or nun, means that you are married to God. I know this sounds funny to our ears because we are obsessed with sex. But, it is a sort of hermitage and asceticism. (When followed properly) Definately not for the weak of will. Bill-in Utah Married to an Irish Catholic , " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork wrote: > > I wonder what sort of relationship he has! > > BB > Jo > > , Peter Kebbell <metalscarab@> wrote: > > > > Well, I did once go to a talk by a vicar who claimed that the relationship > > we have with Jesus should be the same as the one we have with our husband / > > wife. I suspect he was confused... but it certainly shed a new light on > > Christianity for me :-) > > > > BB > > Peter > > > > > > 2009/3/30 Blue Rose <bluerose156@> > > > > > Given Beltaine, perhaps Mary Magdalene. > > > > > > Unless Jesus has gone Oedipal on our asses. > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Dena Jo <DenaJo2@> wrote: > > > > > >> Wow! I never before made the connection between Jesus and Mary and the > > >> God and Goddess... How did I not see that? > > >> > > >> > > >> - DJ > > >> > > >> ----------------------- > > >> Always remember: Today's mighty oak is simply > > >> yesterday's nut that held its ground... > > >> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------ > > >> ** *On > > >> Behalf Of *shinobibombay > > >> *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 5:56 AM > > >> *To:* > > >> *Subject:* Re: Hi I am new to this > > >> > > >> Hi, Katie. > > >> For the record. I am no longer Wiccan. Although, I am still very Wiccan > > >> friendly and sympathetic. I WAS Wiccan from about 1978 ( when I may have > > >> been a " whoopie " Witch. I got more serious as time went on. I am now > > >> Catholic as of about 6 years or so a go. (don't freak out! I have my > > >> reasons!)I have forgot nothing. And still follow much of the ideals. I just > > >> prefer Mary and Jesus and the saints as my god-forms. Although, admitting > > >> this may get me labeled as a heretic. > > >> My point was more along the lines of being Vegan. And there may be > > >> " whoopie Vegans, too! > > >> All generations have their styles. " Flower child " , punk, emo, mods, > > >> retro,... whatever.Trust me,... I HATE " labels " . I know that when you are a > > >> serious " Type " then the posers can be annoying. I think that during the > > >> growing process of becoming anything we all go through phases. In time, the > > >> true Witches and/or Vegans (not necessarily the same thing although > > >> embracing similar sensibilities) will flourish and the wannabes will be > > >> naturally weeded out. > > >> > > >> I am hoping that the more positive aspects of all this can be emphasized > > >> and the negative terrorist/unpatriotic/anti-social aspects of BOTH movements > > >> can be downplayed by those of us who understand what it is we are truly > > >> trying to accomplish here. Which, I think, is a long term sustainable > > >> planet! > > >> Like the )O( by the way! > > >> > > >> Oh,... and 'kudos' for not trying to change the hubbie. I would've > > >> resisted it myself. Besides, I remember the camaraderie of the so-called > > >> " male mysteries " , with all the wild-man stuff etc... > > >> > > >> Bill- in Utah > > >> > > >> <%40>, katie > > >> scott <east_watch@> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Hi my kids are 5 and 19 months, and my husband is not a vegan and I will > > >> not forces him to be. I like him just the way he is. > > >> > > > >> > Bill I think I have a word for you it is used up here to distinguish the > > >> fake witchy Goths from the rest of the Wiccans around here. " whoopee " vegan. > > >> this handy word can be put on any person that is fake or is doing the action > > >> to get attention or is phasing. > > >> > > > >> > feel free to pass it around. > > >> > > > >> > katie )O( > > >> > > > >> > Bill wrought > > >> > > > >> > " There is a stigma attached to the word " vegan " here in Utah. It seems > > >> the the Mormon youth have taken it to the extreme; calling themselves > > >> 'straightedgers' and acting more like skinhead punks. Beating people up for > > >> eating meat and damaging peoples property and setting the minks free and > > >> stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love the sex pistols and the ramones,et al..., > > >> and I am very much an animal welfare advocate. But, the wannabe > > >> gangsta/Peta/ Greenpeace people have made us appear like anarchists and > > >> terrorists in the local governments eyes. > > >> > > > >> > Bill- in Utah > > >> > > > >> > If it runs away from you because it doesn't want to die and has a > > >> mommy,... I don't want to eat it. " > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > > > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > > > ~ > > > Boston_Gothic > > > Boston_Mystic > > > Boston-Pagans > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 I don't either. I also don't think that most Christians are any where near what Christ taught. Bill-in Utah Committing blasphemy and heresy , " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork wrote: > > This is where I think Pagans and Christians vary. You say 'eternal virgin - pure in spirit'. I don't buy into this theory of being impure once having had a sexual relationship. > > Jo > > > , " shinobibombay " <shinobibombay@> wrote: > > > > Granted. Point taken. However, they do have a kid don't they? There are a lot of themes in the various traditions of paganism. And while ol'Horney and Big Mama (I mean that affectionately)do the horizontal bop, they are regenerating the earth,no? You can think of Christ as a version of Llew Llaw Gyffes. Or some other solar deity reborn at the winter solstice.(for the record the church conveniently moved the birth to coincide with the celebration by the early pagans). The only real difference is the tradition it came from, the location and civilization at the time and the interpretation of the events as Christianity evolved. Personally, I think it jibes quite nicely. > > Everyone knows that bunnies don't lay eggs at Easter. And Christmas trees are a Pagan tradition. Yet, the Christians still do these things. Words and events change meaning over time. There are many " Madonna " figures of Pagan origin which the church has incorporated. And who is to say that the Goddess isn't eternally Virgin? At least in purity of spirit,... since She is divine. > > > > Bill-in Utah > > > > , Blue Rose <bluerose156@> wrote: > > > > > > Um...you can't. The goddess and the god " get it on " at Beltaine. What do you > > > think the Great Rite is? > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 5:33 PM, shinobibombay <shinobibombay@>wrote: > > > > > > > Think of it more as a Isis -Horus relationship, please... > > > > > > > > Bill-in Utah > > > > > > > > , Blue Rose <bluerose156@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Given Beltaine, perhaps Mary Magdalene. > > > > > > > > > > Unless Jesus has gone Oedipal on our asses. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Dena Jo <DenaJo2@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Wow! I never before made the connection between Jesus and Mary and > > > > the > > > > > > God and Goddess... How did I not see that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - DJ > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- > > > > > > Always remember: Today's mighty oak is simply > > > > > > yesterday's nut that held its ground... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > ** > > > > *On > > > > > > Behalf Of *shinobibombay > > > > > > *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 5:56 AM > > > > > > *To:* > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Hi I am new to this > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Katie. > > > > > > For the record. I am no longer Wiccan. Although, I am still very Wiccan > > > > > > friendly and sympathetic. I WAS Wiccan from about 1978 ( when I may > > > > have > > > > > > been a " whoopie " Witch. I got more serious as time went on. I am now > > > > > > Catholic as of about 6 years or so a go. (don't freak out! I have my > > > > > > reasons!)I have forgot nothing. And still follow much of the ideals. I > > > > just > > > > > > prefer Mary and Jesus and the saints as my god-forms. Although, > > > > admitting > > > > > > this may get me labeled as a heretic. > > > > > > My point was more along the lines of being Vegan. And there may be > > > > " whoopie > > > > > > Vegans, too! > > > > > > All generations have their styles. " Flower child " , punk, emo, mods, > > > > > > retro,... whatever.Trust me,... I HATE " labels " . I know that when you > > > > are a > > > > > > serious " Type " then the posers can be annoying. I think that during the > > > > > > growing process of becoming anything we all go through phases. In time, > > > > the > > > > > > true Witches and/or Vegans (not necessarily the same thing although > > > > > > embracing similar sensibilities) will flourish and the wannabes will be > > > > > > naturally weeded out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am hoping that the more positive aspects of all this can be > > > > emphasized > > > > > > and the negative terrorist/unpatriotic/anti-social aspects of BOTH > > > > movements > > > > > > can be downplayed by those of us who understand what it is we are truly > > > > > > trying to accomplish here. Which, I think, is a long term sustainable > > > > > > planet! > > > > > > Like the )O( by the way! > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh,... and 'kudos' for not trying to change the hubbie. I would've > > > > resisted > > > > > > it myself. Besides, I remember the camaraderie of the so-called " male > > > > > > mysteries " , with all the wild-man stuff etc... > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill- in Utah > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > katie > > > > > > scott <east_watch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi my kids are 5 and 19 months, and my husband is not a vegan and I > > > > will > > > > > > not forces him to be. I like him just the way he is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill I think I have a word for you it is used up here to distinguish > > > > the > > > > > > fake witchy Goths from the rest of the Wiccans around here. " whoopee " > > > > vegan. > > > > > > this handy word can be put on any person that is fake or is doing the > > > > action > > > > > > to get attention or is phasing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > feel free to pass it around. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > katie )O( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill wrought > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " There is a stigma attached to the word " vegan " here in Utah. It > > > > seems > > > > > > the the Mormon youth have taken it to the extreme; calling themselves > > > > > > 'straightedgers' and acting more like skinhead punks. Beating people up > > > > for > > > > > > eating meat and damaging peoples property and setting the minks free > > > > and > > > > > > stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love the sex pistols and the ramones,et > > > > al..., > > > > > > and I am very much an animal welfare advocate. But, the wannabe > > > > > > gangsta/Peta/ Greenpeace people have made us appear like anarchists and > > > > > > terrorists in the local governments eyes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill- in Utah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it runs away from you because it doesn't want to die and has a > > > > > > mommy,... I don't want to eat it. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > > > > > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > > > > > ~ > > > > > Boston_Gothic > > > > > Boston_Mystic > > > > > Boston-Pagans > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > To send an email to -@! > > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > > > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > > > ~ > > > Boston_Gothic > > > Boston_Mystic > > > Boston-Pagans > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 I agree with BB Bill- in Utah Sticking knives into glasses , Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: > > Hi Blue Rose > > That depends entirely on your tradition... for many Wiccans the " Great > Right " is all about hetero-normative sexuality, and very unwelcoming to > homosexuals. Ask a Feri initiate, and they'll probably tell you about the > Miria creation story. Ask a Reclaiming witch, and they'll talk about > acknowldeging your own sexuality, and embracing your sexual self. Ask a > Druid, and they'll probably talk about metaphors. > > I don't think you can say " The Great Right is...x, y, or z " , simply because > it is different for each individual. > > BB > Peter > > 2009/3/31 Blue Rose <bluerose156 > > > Um...you can't. The goddess and the god " get it on " at Beltaine. What do > > you think the Great Rite is? > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 The Word translated as virgin in the bible is also the same word for virtue, power, and sometimes libido and psychic energy. Depending on is usage. All words have the same root. Bill-in Utah Not a virgin(a granpa, in fact!) , Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: > > Hi Jo > > None... he gave us a big long talk on how " satisfying " sex was in various > sorts of relationships, and then ended by announcing that he was a virgin. > But then if he had those views on Jesus, I'm not surprised! > > BB > Peter > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 Well, I have to say that I am Catholic but haven't found this thread offensive and I don't take my religion literally. I, for example, DO believe that dinosaurs roamed the earth <vbg>. I've found this discussion interesting, though. I've long known that Christianity "stole" some of the (many of the) Pagan beliefs/dates/etc. Other beliefs/religions/etc are very interesting to me despite my Catholic roots. And let's face it - I believe it is because so many people are so easily offended by different viewpoints that we have such hatred, intolerance and violence in this world. If we would all just shut the heck up and listen to other people that don't necessarily think exactly like us from time to time, we might actually learn something. Sadly, too many people just choose to be offended. I don't <vbg>. I also have to admit to not always agreeing with the Pope or the Church. I know that Catholic dogma states that the Church never makes mistakes but I think we all know that isn't quite right...... Missie Harholdand Gracie the Ibizan Houndand Jeanie the Greyhoundgreyhounddog“Because nothing worthwhile in this country has ever happened unless somebody, somewhere stood up when it was hard; stood up when they were told – no you can’t, and said yes we can.” Barack Obama You Wrote:I do understand where you are coming from. And, no, I would not suggest these ideas to a lay Catholic. The priests are pretty educated, having to study comparative religions and all that. It takes a little reconciling. But, i have never known a Pagan to take their mythology/thea/ology as literal as most Christians do. Particularly the more fundamentalist types.Bill-in Utah(where the bloody mormons rule) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 Very true. I personally am not Wiccan but have friends who are Feri, Alexandrian, Gardnerian, and Blue Star. But the Great Rite *is* sexual, whether that's symbolic sex or not. You can't really argue otherwise. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 5:27 AM, Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: Hi Blue RoseThat depends entirely on your tradition... for many Wiccans the " Great Right " is all about hetero-normative sexuality, and very unwelcoming to homosexuals. Ask a Feri initiate, and they'll probably tell you about the Miria creation story. Ask a Reclaiming witch, and they'll talk about acknowldeging your own sexuality, and embracing your sexual self. Ask a Druid, and they'll probably talk about metaphors. I don't think you can say " The Great Right is...x, y, or z " , simply because it is different for each individual.BBPeter 2009/3/31 Blue Rose <bluerose156 Um...you can't. The goddess and the god " get it on " at Beltaine. What do you think the Great Rite is? -- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com ~Boston_GothicBoston_MysticBoston-Pagans Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 Er, it's a bit more than that. How about the stance on birth control? Or on female clergy? I've heard that they glorify women who choose to die in childbirth versus abort the baby. That's nuts. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:23 AM, shinobibombay <shinobibombay wrote: Sex isn't bad. Catholics just ask that we take personal responsibility for our actions. It's all about common sense. Gee whiz,... How are we supposed to repopulate if sex is bad? Excess promiscuity with multiple partners is bad for you. Just like smoking cigarettes or drinking too much is bad for you. But, sex is not bad in and of it self. Bill-in Utah(With that legendary Vegan libido) , Blue Rose <bluerose156 wrote:>> I definitely don't take mine literally, but if the symbolism has no meaning, > then what's the point?>> In my pantheon we have virgin goddesses, mothers, wives, women who get it on> and love it, et cetera. There's a nice, wide range; none of that " sex is> bad " stuff. > ---To send an email to -! Groups Links<*> / <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional<*> To change settings online go to: /join ( ID required)<*> To change settings via email: -digest -fullfeatured <*> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 HmmmDepends. I'd say that it's more about fertility than sex. While in humans the two might be part of the same thing, that's not true for large sections of the rest of nature...BBPeter 2009/3/31 Blue Rose <bluerose156 Very true. I personally am not Wiccan but have friends who are Feri, Alexandrian, Gardnerian, and Blue Star. But the Great Rite *is* sexual, whether that's symbolic sex or not. You can't really argue otherwise. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 5:27 AM, Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: Hi Blue RoseThat depends entirely on your tradition... for many Wiccans the " Great Right " is all about hetero-normative sexuality, and very unwelcoming to homosexuals. Ask a Feri initiate, and they'll probably tell you about the Miria creation story. Ask a Reclaiming witch, and they'll talk about acknowldeging your own sexuality, and embracing your sexual self. Ask a Druid, and they'll probably talk about metaphors. I don't think you can say " The Great Right is...x, y, or z " , simply because it is different for each individual.BBPeter 2009/3/31 Blue Rose <bluerose156 Um...you can't. The goddess and the god " get it on " at Beltaine. What do you think the Great Rite is? -- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com ~Boston_GothicBoston_Mystic Boston-Pagans Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 Hi, Natasha! Well, Catholics are contextualists. Which means we are supposed to take in to consideration not only what is being said; but, also, who it is being said to at the time period in which it was said, etc. Unlike many of the protestants which are Sola Scriptura; which is absolutely literal(and often very much out of context). I personally feel that all truth and beauty can be found in the Church. But, like any other organization it is very often tainted by the whims of the persons in charge and the political agenda behind it. As for the alleged infallibility of the Pope. I believe that the idea encompasses the fact that he is surrounded by very learned men who are very careful about what they will allow him to say.(B16 is prolly the most progressive Pope we've had yet!) Not so much to 'control the masses', as if often parroted by those lacking in spiritual discernment, but, more so to make sure that those who choose to follow the teachings of the faith don't hurt themselves. Bill-in Utah Wearing a brown scapular and gardening by the moons phases , NATASHA HARHOLD <greyhounddog wrote: > > Well, I have to say that I am Catholic but haven't found this thread > offensive and I don't take my religion literally. I, for example, DO > believe that dinosaurs roamed the earth <vbg>. I've found this > discussion interesting, though. I've long known that Christianity > " stole " some of the (many of the) Pagan beliefs/dates/etc. Other > beliefs/religions/etc are very interesting to me despite my Catholic > roots. And let's face it - I believe it is because so many people are > so easily offended by different viewpoints that we have such hatred, > intolerance and violence in this world. If we would all just shut the > heck up and listen to other people that don't necessarily think > exactly like us from time to time, we might actually learn something. > Sadly, too many people just choose to be offended. I don't <vbg>. I > also have to admit to not always agreeing with the Pope or the > Church. I know that Catholic dogma states that the Church never makes > mistakes but I think we all know that isn't quite right...... > > > > Missie Harhold > and Gracie the Ibizan Hound > and Jeanie the Greyhound > greyhounddog > > " Because nothing worthwhile in this country has ever happened unless > somebody, somewhere stood up when it was hard; stood up when they were > told – no you can't, and said yes we can. " Barack Obama > > > You Wrote: > I do understand where you are coming from. And, no, I would not > suggest these ideas to a lay Catholic. The priests are pretty > educated, having to study comparative religions and all that. It takes > a little reconciling. But, i have never known a Pagan to take their > mythology/thea/ology as literal as most Christians do. Particularly > the more fundamentalist types. > > Bill-in Utah > (where the bloody mormons rule) > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 Hi BillI don't think Benedict is a patch on John Paul I, when it comes to being progressive. But sadly JP only had 33 days. It would be very interesting to see how different the Catholic Church would be if he had lived a little longer! However, while I don't want to ruffle feathers, I do have severe objections to the statement that " condoms contribute to the spread of AIDS " , which is not only nonsense, but is also deeply irresponsible, coming from a man who is trusted by many millions of people, and considered by lots of them to be infallible. I think it shows a great fallibility to make a statement which is likely to result in the deaths of many millions of people. If he was a pharmaceutical company, he would be severely fined, and possibly shut down for making false medical claims, but because he's the Catholic Church, apparently he can say what he likes. BBPeter2009/3/31 shinobibombay <shinobibombay Hi, Natasha! Well, Catholics are contextualists. Which means we are supposed to take in to consideration not only what is being said; but, also, who it is being said to at the time period in which it was said, etc. Unlike many of the protestants which are Sola Scriptura; which is absolutely literal(and often very much out of context). I personally feel that all truth and beauty can be found in the Church. But, like any other organization it is very often tainted by the whims of the persons in charge and the political agenda behind it. As for the alleged infallibility of the Pope. I believe that the idea encompasses the fact that he is surrounded by very learned men who are very careful about what they will allow him to say.(B16 is prolly the most progressive Pope we've had yet!) Not so much to 'control the masses', as if often parroted by those lacking in spiritual discernment, but, more so to make sure that those who choose to follow the teachings of the faith don't hurt themselves. Bill-in Utah Wearing a brown scapular and gardening by the moons phases , NATASHA HARHOLD <greyhounddog wrote: > > Well, I have to say that I am Catholic but haven't found this thread > offensive and I don't take my religion literally. I, for example, DO > believe that dinosaurs roamed the earth <vbg>. I've found this > discussion interesting, though. I've long known that Christianity > " stole " some of the (many of the) Pagan beliefs/dates/etc. Other > beliefs/religions/etc are very interesting to me despite my Catholic > roots. And let's face it - I believe it is because so many people are > so easily offended by different viewpoints that we have such hatred, > intolerance and violence in this world. If we would all just shut the > heck up and listen to other people that don't necessarily think > exactly like us from time to time, we might actually learn something. > Sadly, too many people just choose to be offended. I don't <vbg>. I > also have to admit to not always agreeing with the Pope or the > Church. I know that Catholic dogma states that the Church never makes > mistakes but I think we all know that isn't quite right...... > > > > Missie Harhold > and Gracie the Ibizan Hound > and Jeanie the Greyhound > greyhounddog > > " Because nothing worthwhile in this country has ever happened unless > somebody, somewhere stood up when it was hard; stood up when they were > told – no you can't, and said yes we can. " Barack Obama > > > You Wrote: > I do understand where you are coming from. And, no, I would not > suggest these ideas to a lay Catholic. The priests are pretty > educated, having to study comparative religions and all that. It takes > a little reconciling. But, i have never known a Pagan to take their > mythology/thea/ology as literal as most Christians do. Particularly > the more fundamentalist types. > > Bill-in Utah > (where the bloody mormons rule) > --- To send an email to -! Groups Links <*> / <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: /join ( ID required) <*> To change settings via email: -digest -fullfeatured <*> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 The stance on birth control is definitely a touchy subject. The Vatican's take on it is more about common sense than staunch sexual purity(at least as far as I understand it.) You also have to understand that when the Pope is speaking, he is speaking as the head of the Catholic Church. Not the leader of the world. But, because he is such a prominent figure everyone thinks he is telling the world what they should or should not do. It is the condition of human sexuality which is affected by promiscuity leading to STD's and unwanted pregnancies. In the eye's of the Holy See, distributing condoms to teenagers only encourages promiscuity. It is disturbing how his sayings are often taken out of context. When he says that abstinence is the solution; it is akin to saying if you want to decrease your chances of getting lung cancer then stop smoking. But, people somehow translate his sayings as some sort of attempt at controlling their sexuality. As for female clergy. I don't really have an answer for you. However, I know from personal experience that the woman almost always winds up running things anyway. A lot of the Saints are female and have started many charitable organizations. Mary has such a prominant position in Church theology that one could argue She is at the helm. Although, officially, she is subject to Her Son. Mystically speaking, every member of the church is considered a part of Her and Her Son as a bride of Christ. Bill-in Utah Running out of clever signatures... , Blue Rose <bluerose156 wrote: > > Er, it's a bit more than that. How about the stance on birth control? Or on > female clergy? > > I've heard that they glorify women who choose to die in childbirth versus > abort the baby. That's nuts. > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:23 AM, shinobibombay <shinobibombaywrote: > > > Sex isn't bad. Catholics just ask that we take personal responsibility for > > our actions. It's all about common sense. Gee whiz,... How are we supposed > > to repopulate if sex is bad? Excess promiscuity with multiple partners is > > bad for you. Just like smoking cigarettes or drinking too much is bad for > > you. But, sex is not bad in and of it self. > > > > Bill-in Utah > > (With that legendary Vegan libido) > > > > , Blue Rose <bluerose156@> wrote: > > > > > > I definitely don't take mine literally, but if the symbolism has no > > meaning, > > > then what's the point? > > > > > > In my pantheon we have virgin goddesses, mothers, wives, women who get it > > on > > > and love it, et cetera. There's a nice, wide range; none of that " sex is > > > bad " stuff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > To send an email to -! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > -- > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > ~ > Boston_Gothic > Boston_Mystic > Boston-Pagans > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 Ha, no they don't. I remember being fed that answer from someone, and it really just comes down to " We don't like the wimmins. " Catholicism is a seriously misogynistic faith. There's just no getting around it. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:08 AM, shinobibombay <shinobibombay wrote: As for female clergy. I don't really have an answer for you. However, I know from personal experience that the woman almost always winds up running things anyway. -- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com~Boston_Gothic Boston_MysticBoston-Pagans Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 Hi BillSorry, I have to disagree with you here.When the Pope speaks, he does so as though he is in charge of the world... the word " Catholic " means " everything " , and the Pope does claim that authority, regardless of whether or not people listen. Secondly, to say that distributing condoms to teenagers encourages promiscuity is a bit like saying being obese encourages binge eating... it's a load of nonsense. By insisting on all sexual activity being unprotected, the Catholic church continues to promote the very practice which is causing a huge spread in STDs and underage pregnancies. People are going to have sex, whether the Pope likes it or not (and, frankly, it's none of his business) - by failing to encourage that activity to take place in a safe way, he is responsible for a major part of the problem. The real problem is, that the whole sexual stance of the church is the result of a man who had severe psychological issues as a result of his own lack of respect for humans as a youth: he felt guilty at using sex in order to obtain power over people, but rather than acknowledge his own failings, he blamed the tools he used, and decided that no-one should use them. It's led to a very screwed up attitude to sex and intimacy ever since, and is frankly rather unhealthy! Again, I'm not trying to offend, but I do find it offensive when people feel the need to insist that everyone else follows their own srewed up sexual (or other) attitudes.BBPeter 2009/3/31 shinobibombay <shinobibombay The stance on birth control is definitely a touchy subject. The Vatican's take on it is more about common sense than staunch sexual purity(at least as far as I understand it.) You also have to understand that when the Pope is speaking, he is speaking as the head of the Catholic Church. Not the leader of the world. But, because he is such a prominent figure everyone thinks he is telling the world what they should or should not do. It is the condition of human sexuality which is affected by promiscuity leading to STD's and unwanted pregnancies. In the eye's of the Holy See, distributing condoms to teenagers only encourages promiscuity. It is disturbing how his sayings are often taken out of context. When he says that abstinence is the solution; it is akin to saying if you want to decrease your chances of getting lung cancer then stop smoking. But, people somehow translate his sayings as some sort of attempt at controlling their sexuality. As for female clergy. I don't really have an answer for you. However, I know from personal experience that the woman almost always winds up running things anyway. A lot of the Saints are female and have started many charitable organizations. Mary has such a prominant position in Church theology that one could argue She is at the helm. Although, officially, she is subject to Her Son. Mystically speaking, every member of the church is considered a part of Her and Her Son as a bride of Christ. Bill-in Utah Running out of clever signatures... , Blue Rose <bluerose156 wrote: > > Er, it's a bit more than that. How about the stance on birth control? Or on > female clergy? > > I've heard that they glorify women who choose to die in childbirth versus > abort the baby. That's nuts. > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:23 AM, shinobibombay <shinobibombaywrote: > > > Sex isn't bad. Catholics just ask that we take personal responsibility for > > our actions. It's all about common sense. Gee whiz,... How are we supposed > > to repopulate if sex is bad? Excess promiscuity with multiple partners is > > bad for you. Just like smoking cigarettes or drinking too much is bad for > > you. But, sex is not bad in and of it self. > > > > Bill-in Utah > > (With that legendary Vegan libido) > > > > , Blue Rose <bluerose156@> wrote: > > > > > > I definitely don't take mine literally, but if the symbolism has no > > meaning, > > > then what's the point? > > > > > > In my pantheon we have virgin goddesses, mothers, wives, women who get it > > on > > > and love it, et cetera. There's a nice, wide range; none of that " sex is > > > bad " stuff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > To send an email to -! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > -- > AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156 > http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com > ~ > Boston_Gothic > Boston_Mystic > Boston-Pagans > --- To send an email to -! Groups Links <*> / <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: /join ( ID required) <*> To change settings via email: -digest -fullfeatured <*> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 31, 2009 Hey, Peter! Actually, this is another example of how things get misconstrued in the media. What the pope said is that condoms won't stop the spread of AIDS. He did not say they 'contribute' to the spread of AIDS. What contributes to the spread of AIDS is promiscuity and indiscretion. Bill-in Utah , Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: > > Hi Bill > > I don't think Benedict is a patch on John Paul I, when it comes to being > progressive. But sadly JP only had 33 days. It would be very interesting to > see how different the Catholic Church would be if he had lived a little > longer! > > However, while I don't want to ruffle feathers, I do have severe objections > to the statement that " condoms contribute to the spread of AIDS " , which is > not only nonsense, but is also deeply irresponsible, coming from a man who > is trusted by many millions of people, and considered by lots of them to be > infallible. I think it shows a great fallibility to make a statement which > is likely to result in the deaths of many millions of people. If he was a > pharmaceutical company, he would be severely fined, and possibly shut down > for making false medical claims, but because he's the Catholic Church, > apparently he can say what he likes. > > BB > Peter > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
