Guest guest Report post Posted March 10, 2007 I can't say much more than...THANK YOU!!! , L Friend <mountain_laurel1183 wrote: > > If it makes you feel better, they have said vaccinations definitely do not cause autism. I know it is only one thing, but this relates pretty closely to my field of study so I keep a pretty close eye on it. The rest of those major side effects (paralysis, etc) are about as rare as contracting the illness from what I understand. I know there are other reasons not to vaccinate, so I am not saying you definitely should. I also know the skepticism that surrounds these studies, so again, I am not taking sides on this. > > The way I see it is that we are all doing the best we can with what information we have to raise our kids with the best chances possible. So I do my research, make my decisions, modify them later with new info if possible, and until then, live guilt free. It is a gamble. We could keep our kids locked in germ free rooms with the maximum stimluation possible to make them geniuses, then they would hate us because we never let them out. Then they would fly out on the streets and do drugs and everything we were trying to protect them from just to show us they could. > > Most kids turn out fine, and you never know what research will tell us in the future that we did wrong. Can you imagine doing some of the things to our kids that our parents did with us? No car seats, etc. I am sure the next generation will have a bunch of things to make us feel guilty for, too. So until then, I just kind of do what I think is right and go from there. It will be okay. If you vaccinate your kids, they may end up paralyzed. If you don't vaccinate your kids and they die of smallpox. Truth is, most kids turn out perfectly healthy, regardless of our decisions. You do the best you can. I do the best I can, and that is all we can do. My motto is " No guilt. " I have made mistakes, but I learn from them, forgive myself, and move on. No one is perfect, and no matter what you do, your kid may end up fine or not fine. You just never know. So I wouldn't stress out too much about it. > > Stephanie <stargazerlily72 wrote: > I am SOOOO with you!!! My daughter is 9 months old. Before she was > born I said I wouldn't vaccinate. Somehow I was " scared " into it > by " them " up to this point she has all her shots but everytime we go > in, it turns my stomach!!! I wonder, will she get sick, get > paralyzed, autism or the worst, die from a reaction.I am right smack > dab ON the fence, I am scared to vax but I'm scared not to. My head > spins when I start to think about it. I feel horrible that I > seemingly can't make this decision! I WAS able to stand up to the ped > about one vax. Since my daughter was a preemie they wanted to give > her Synagis, for RSV. They told me if she got RSV that she would > probably die because she was a preemie. She had NO complications, > just born early. Doc wanted to give her this vax (a live virus) on a > monthly basis for 6 MONTHS!!!! I told him that she has a better > chance of getting sick if you are GIVING HER THE VIRUS than picking > it up off the street. Which btw my daughter is at home with me all > the time, and never has contact with other children (for now). Oh, > the looks I got and the third degree in questions!!! I felt good > though. BUT, I still fel like total CRAP that I can't decide on the > rest of them!I too, would like others personal experience with this > topic. THANK YOU!!! So,so, much! > Stephanie > > , " Leah Little " <leahrlittle@> > wrote: > > > > We don't vaccinate. There are some great discussions and links to > resources > > at mothering.com in the discussions forum, " vaccinations " . You're > right, > > well baby visits are just for vaccinations. I don't need to pay > someone to > > tell me that my baby is well. > > > > > > > " najjafamily03 " <najjafamily03@> > > > > > > > > > kids shots > > >Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:19:15 -0000 > > > > > >Hello I'm Yolanda in Va. We have 2 boys and we are a veg family > except > > >for eggs for the kids and whites for myself.Working on that one. My > > >question is has anyone on the group decided not to give their > children > > >immunization shots. My sons are 2 and 4. I took my son to the dr. > for > > >his 4 year old check up and he was due to have his shots. I really > > >don't want them to have shots but I don't know if it is a wise > > >decision. I know it's a personal decision but would like to get > feed > > >back from others. My boys and I are very healthy people. We have > > >insurance but I don't even understand why there is a need to get > check > > >ups especially when everything is okay. It's like I'm giving away > my > > >$25.00 for a copay. And the Dr. says all looks well. I knew that > > >before I took him in. I really don't have to worry about school > > >records because we homeschool and I know you can be exempt from > shots > > >for different reasons. Sorry for the long post but I just can't > stop > > >thinking about these immunizatioin shots!!!! > > > > > >Thanks > > > > > > > ________ > > Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft > Office > > Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > in the Answers Food & Drink Q & A. > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 10, 2007 well, by college age, the vaxes aren't as harmful to their immune systems since they're finished forming! Plus, at that point, the kids will be old enough to have some input into their own body and vax decisions! There's always alternatives to college, too.. Thomas Edison, for one! - L Friend<mountain_laurel1183 < > Friday, March 09, 2007 5:31 PM Re: kids shots What are you planning to do about college? They are requiring more and more vaccinations for college. (This is a question-question, not a debate-question. In my research, this is one thing I never came across). Lisa Schroeder <awoogala<awoogala> wrote: we slesctively vax. I waited until they were two to do any, then chose dtap, since I wanted pertussis and tetanus, both which are unavailable except as a group shot. my 4 yr old has just received his second polio shot as well. Now, selectively vaxing can also open up a hotbed of schooling issues, since an exemption is usually not allowed if you are picking and choosing. (except for the fetal tissue/catholic ones). Afriend of mine was denied an religious exeption for selectively vaxing (since she had already done some, she couldn't be against them). I live in NJ where medical exemptions are hard to get, and philosophical exemptions do not exist. Anyway, the short version is: we were planning on homeschooling anyway, so I knew I could pick and choose, but you may want to consider if you're trying for exemptions. - Kadee M<abbey_road3012<abbey_road3012> To: < ><@\ > Friday, March 09, 2007 4:02 PM Re: kids shots Remember we're all weirdos too. chandelle' <earthmother213<earthmother213<earthmother213\ @gmail.com<earthmother213>> wrote: wow, i'm so surprised there are lots of other people on this group who don't vax! usually i get blasted for it. i was sort of preparing for an attack. On 3/9/07, Leah Little <leahrlittle<leahrlittle<leahrlittle@hotm\ ail.com<leahrlittle>> wrote: > > We don't vaccinate. There are some great discussions and links to > resources > at mothering.com in the discussions forum, " vaccinations " . You're right, > well baby visits are just for vaccinations. I don't need to pay someone > to > tell me that my baby is well. > > > > " najjafamily03 " <najjafamily03<najjafamily03<najjafamily03@ya\ hoo.com<najjafamily03>> > > < ><@\ > > >To: < ><@\ > > > kids shots > >Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:19:15 -0000 > > > >Hello I'm Yolanda in Va. We have 2 boys and we are a veg family except > >for eggs for the kids and whites for myself.Working on that one. My > >question is has anyone on the group decided not to give their children > >immunization shots. My sons are 2 and 4. I took my son to the dr. for > >his 4 year old check up and he was due to have his shots. I really > >don't want them to have shots but I don't know if it is a wise > >decision. I know it's a personal decision but would like to get feed > >back from others. My boys and I are very healthy people. We have > >insurance but I don't even understand why there is a need to get check > >ups especially when everything is okay. It's like I'm giving away my > >$25.00 for a copay. And the Dr. says all looks well. I knew that > >before I took him in. I really don't have to worry about school > >records because we homeschool and I know you can be exempt from shots > >for different reasons. Sorry for the long post but I just can't stop > >thinking about these immunizatioin shots!!!! > > > >Thanks > > > > ________ > Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office > Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/<http://clk.atdmt.co\ m/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/><http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0\ 050001411mrt/direct/01/<http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct\ /01/>> > > > > For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at > http://www.vrg.org<http://www.vrg.org/><http://www.vrg.org/<http://www.vrg.org/>\ > and for materials especially useful for families go to > http://www.vrg.org/family.This<http://www.vrg.org/family.This><http://wwwvrg.org\ /family.This<http://www.vrg.org/family.This>> is a discussion list and is not intended to > provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a > qualified health professional. > > edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health > professional. > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 11, 2007 Here is a few more articles: http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/link_between_autism_and_vaccinati ons.htm http://autismcoach.com/Autism%20Declines%20When%20Mercury%20Vaccines% 20Banned.htm I dont belive we should feel guilty for vaccinating our kids. First of all it is a personal choice, and second of all there is an enourmous preshure from everywhere in the society to vaccinate. I know all about it. I have chosen not to vaccinate my daughter, but my doctore almost accused me of all sorts of things and told me all the horible stories of what could happend if I dident vaccinate her. It was a hard battel, my husban totaly belived the doctore (she was very persuvacive), so I had to fight him too. But how do you explain a MD that you motherly gut feeling tells you not to expose you little child to that stuff ??? I would feel more guilty doing it than not doing it. Yes I do have doughts sometime if it was the right decition, I will always have, but she is alomst 5 now and doing great :-) If you decide to vaccinate there are several thing you can do to prevent or minimise problems; first of all it is impotant that the kid is in top condition, meaning the immunesystem has to be in top gear. If the kid is snotty or had a cold a few weeks before wait to vacciante. Go to a homeopath, they have some nosodes that you can give before and after the vacciantion, it will help the body to addapt better to the vaccination. If you kid is vaccinatet you can also get somthing from the homeopath to heal up an posible effect/damage on the cells. Or as somone has allready mentioned to be selective with the vaccination or wait till the kid is older. the reason why babies and small kids are more sensitive to the vaccinations than adults is because their nervous system is not fully developed, their brain is still developing. So waiting is a posibility. I have to say that the danger the MDs are talking about when it comes to the normal childhood diseases is totaly overratet. I had all of them as a kid. I had a high fever for 1-2 days after 3-4 days I was fine and that was it (ok smallpox and chickenpox itches, ok itches really badly ;-) but it is not worse than that :-). We also have to concider the long term effect of the childhod diseases. The Antroposofic MDs and some naturapaths belive that all the different infections we have as kids is important to build a strong immunesystem to prevent cancer among other things. So dont suppress a fever unless it is dangerously high for a long period of time (you should see a doctore if it is anyway). FEver is an important part of a healthy immunesystem and the bodys defence against virus and bacteria. If the immunesystem is suppresed with to much atibiotica it can create ill health and allergies/intolorances. Im sorry that I dont have any article or links in english about all this, but it is more widly used here in europe. Well the best thing is to get informed, both about the pros and cons and then decide :-) Kristine , chandelle' <earthmother213 wrote: > > well, in relation to what's happening in china, i'm mainly referring to the > incredible increase in autism. we have brought a lot of culture to china, > but cultural things like diet are not really considered in autism rates (as > far as i know...i used to work with autistic kids but it's been a long time, > so maybe there's something new i don't know about...). some of the higher > rates can be blamed on better diagnosis, but i don't think all of it > can...especially since the sharp increase began just as the thimerosol > debate in the US was gearing up and many thimerosol-ated vaxes were sent > over there in capitulation. > > and in my own defense, one of my majors was forensic psych, for three years, > and i had to take mutiple classes in experiment design/implementation and > statistics, so i'm pretty skeptical about studies too. > > and thank YOU for being polite. > > chandelle' > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 12, 2007 well, i was very skeptical when i saw a mercola reference but...i guess not everything he says is complete and utter BS. On 3/11/07, blomster_fe <shanti wrote: > > Here is a few more articles: > > http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/link_between_autism_and_vaccinati > ons.htm > > http://autismcoach.com/Autism%20Declines%20When%20Mercury%20Vaccines% > 20Banned.htm > > I dont belive we should feel guilty for vaccinating our kids. First > of all it is a personal choice, and second of all there is an > enourmous preshure from everywhere in the society to vaccinate. I > know all about it. I have chosen not to vaccinate my daughter, but > my doctore almost accused me of all sorts of things and told me all > the horible stories of what could happend if I dident vaccinate her. > It was a hard battel, my husban totaly belived the doctore (she was > very persuvacive), so I had to fight him too. But how do you explain > a MD that you motherly gut feeling tells you not to expose you > little child to that stuff ??? I would feel more guilty doing it > than not doing it. Yes I do have doughts sometime if it was the > right decition, I will always have, but she is alomst 5 now and > doing great :-) > > If you decide to vaccinate there are several thing you can do to > prevent or minimise problems; first of all it is impotant that the > kid is in top condition, meaning the immunesystem has to be in top > gear. If the kid is snotty or had a cold a few weeks before wait to > vacciante. > Go to a homeopath, they have some nosodes that you can give before > and after the vacciantion, it will help the body to addapt better to > the vaccination. If you kid is vaccinatet you can also get somthing > from the homeopath to heal up an posible effect/damage on the cells. > Or as somone has allready mentioned to be selective with the > vaccination or wait till the kid is older. the reason why babies and > small kids are more sensitive to the vaccinations than adults is > because their nervous system is not fully developed, their brain is > still developing. So waiting is a posibility. > I have to say that the danger the MDs are talking about when it > comes to the normal childhood diseases is totaly overratet. I had > all of them as a kid. I had a high fever for 1-2 days after 3-4 days > I was fine and that was it (ok smallpox and chickenpox itches, ok > itches really badly ;-) but it is not worse than that :-). > We also have to concider the long term effect of the childhod > diseases. The Antroposofic MDs and some naturapaths belive that all > the different infections we have as kids is important to build a > strong immunesystem to prevent cancer among other things. So dont > suppress a fever unless it is dangerously high for a long period of > time (you should see a doctore if it is anyway). FEver is an > important part of a healthy immunesystem and the bodys defence > against virus and bacteria. If the immunesystem is suppresed with to > much atibiotica it can create ill health and allergies/intolorances. > Im sorry that I dont have any article or links in english about all > this, but it is more widly used here in europe. > > Well the best thing is to get informed, both about the pros and cons > and then decide :-) > > Kristine > > > , chandelle' <earthmother213 > wrote: > > > > well, in relation to what's happening in china, i'm mainly > referring to the > > incredible increase in autism. we have brought a lot of culture > to china, > > but cultural things like diet are not really considered in autism > rates (as > > far as i know...i used to work with autistic kids but it's been a > long time, > > so maybe there's something new i don't know about...). some of > the higher > > rates can be blamed on better diagnosis, but i don't think all of > it > > can...especially since the sharp increase began just as the > thimerosol > > debate in the US was gearing up and many thimerosol-ated vaxes > were sent > > over there in capitulation. > > > > and in my own defense, one of my majors was forensic psych, for > three years, > > and i had to take mutiple classes in experiment > design/implementation and > > statistics, so i'm pretty skeptical about studies too. > > > > and thank YOU for being polite. > > > > chandelle' > For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at > http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to > http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to > provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a > qualified health professional. > > edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health > professional. > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 12, 2007 Hey Kadee, we got our MMR in separate doses. Our doctor said the insert said to wait 6 weeks between shots. He wanted us to wait 8 weeks. We actually ended up waiting more for no particular reason...we have yet to get the R. Just thought you might want to look into that when you do the MMR. , Kadee M <abbey_road3012 wrote: > > We're not doing them the way the doctor tells us to. We have lately started getting all the ones we can individually, a month apart. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 14, 2007 I have never chimed in on this list before but I have something to contribute to this topic. I have an 8 yr old daughter who was diagnosed with alopecia 2 yrs ago. This is an autoimmune disorder also. Since it is not life threatening, there is not alot of research in the area of causes/cures. They say there is a possible genetic factor but not in all of the cases. There is not genetic history in my or my husbands family. I have often questioned immunizations as being the cause. If you look at what is used as preservatives....We had a hair analysis done and found aluminum in her system. Aluminum is one preservative. My daughter does not drink out of aluminum cans so where is all the aluminume coming from? My sons don't have alopecia but not everyone is affected in the same way. The doctors totally refute the dangers of immunizations, imagine that? -Heather blomster_fe <shanti wrote: Here is a few more articles: http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/link_between_autism_and_vaccinati ons.htm http://autismcoach.com/Autism%20Declines%20When%20Mercury%20Vaccines% 20Banned.htm I dont belive we should feel guilty for vaccinating our kids. First of all it is a personal choice, and second of all there is an enourmous preshure from everywhere in the society to vaccinate. I know all about it. I have chosen not to vaccinate my daughter, but my doctore almost accused me of all sorts of things and told me all the horible stories of what could happend if I dident vaccinate her. It was a hard battel, my husban totaly belived the doctore (she was very persuvacive), so I had to fight him too. But how do you explain a MD that you motherly gut feeling tells you not to expose you little child to that stuff ??? I would feel more guilty doing it than not doing it. Yes I do have doughts sometime if it was the right decition, I will always have, but she is alomst 5 now and doing great :-) If you decide to vaccinate there are several thing you can do to prevent or minimise problems; first of all it is impotant that the kid is in top condition, meaning the immunesystem has to be in top gear. If the kid is snotty or had a cold a few weeks before wait to vacciante. Go to a homeopath, they have some nosodes that you can give before and after the vacciantion, it will help the body to addapt better to the vaccination. If you kid is vaccinatet you can also get somthing from the homeopath to heal up an posible effect/damage on the cells. Or as somone has allready mentioned to be selective with the vaccination or wait till the kid is older. the reason why babies and small kids are more sensitive to the vaccinations than adults is because their nervous system is not fully developed, their brain is still developing. So waiting is a posibility. I have to say that the danger the MDs are talking about when it comes to the normal childhood diseases is totaly overratet. I had all of them as a kid. I had a high fever for 1-2 days after 3-4 days I was fine and that was it (ok smallpox and chickenpox itches, ok itches really badly ;-) but it is not worse than that :-). We also have to concider the long term effect of the childhod diseases. The Antroposofic MDs and some naturapaths belive that all the different infections we have as kids is important to build a strong immunesystem to prevent cancer among other things. So dont suppress a fever unless it is dangerously high for a long period of time (you should see a doctore if it is anyway). FEver is an important part of a healthy immunesystem and the bodys defence against virus and bacteria. If the immunesystem is suppresed with to much atibiotica it can create ill health and allergies/intolorances. Im sorry that I dont have any article or links in english about all this, but it is more widly used here in europe. Well the best thing is to get informed, both about the pros and cons and then decide :-) Kristine , chandelle' <earthmother213 wrote: > > well, in relation to what's happening in china, i'm mainly referring to the > incredible increase in autism. we have brought a lot of culture to china, > but cultural things like diet are not really considered in autism rates (as > far as i know...i used to work with autistic kids but it's been a long time, > so maybe there's something new i don't know about...). some of the higher > rates can be blamed on better diagnosis, but i don't think all of it > can...especially since the sharp increase began just as the thimerosol > debate in the US was gearing up and many thimerosol-ated vaxes were sent > over there in capitulation. > > and in my own defense, one of my majors was forensic psych, for three years, > and i had to take mutiple classes in experiment design/implementation and > statistics, so i'm pretty skeptical about studies too. > > and thank YOU for being polite. > > chandelle' > Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Games. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 15, 2007 isn't alopecia hair loss? On 3/14/07, Heather Russell <iluvemypetz wrote: > > I have never chimed in on this list before but I have something to > contribute to this topic. I have an 8 yr old daughter who was diagnosed > with alopecia 2 yrs ago. This is an autoimmune disorder also. Since it is > not life threatening, there is not alot of research in the area of > causes/cures. They say there is a possible genetic factor but not in all of > the cases. There is not genetic history in my or my husbands family. I > have often questioned immunizations as being the cause. If you look at what > is used as preservatives....We had a hair analysis done and found aluminum > in her system. Aluminum is one preservative. My daughter does not drink > out of aluminum cans so where is all the aluminume coming from? My sons > don't have alopecia but not everyone is affected in the same way. The > doctors totally refute the dangers of immunizations, imagine that? > -Heather > > blomster_fe <shanti wrote: > Here is a few more articles: > > http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/link_between_autism_and_vaccinati > ons.htm > > http://autismcoach.com/Autism%20Declines%20When%20Mercury%20Vaccines% > 20Banned.htm > > I dont belive we should feel guilty for vaccinating our kids. First > of all it is a personal choice, and second of all there is an > enourmous preshure from everywhere in the society to vaccinate. I > know all about it. I have chosen not to vaccinate my daughter, but > my doctore almost accused me of all sorts of things and told me all > the horible stories of what could happend if I dident vaccinate her. > It was a hard battel, my husban totaly belived the doctore (she was > very persuvacive), so I had to fight him too. But how do you explain > a MD that you motherly gut feeling tells you not to expose you > little child to that stuff ??? I would feel more guilty doing it > than not doing it. Yes I do have doughts sometime if it was the > right decition, I will always have, but she is alomst 5 now and > doing great :-) > > If you decide to vaccinate there are several thing you can do to > prevent or minimise problems; first of all it is impotant that the > kid is in top condition, meaning the immunesystem has to be in top > gear. If the kid is snotty or had a cold a few weeks before wait to > vacciante. > Go to a homeopath, they have some nosodes that you can give before > and after the vacciantion, it will help the body to addapt better to > the vaccination. If you kid is vaccinatet you can also get somthing > from the homeopath to heal up an posible effect/damage on the cells. > Or as somone has allready mentioned to be selective with the > vaccination or wait till the kid is older. the reason why babies and > small kids are more sensitive to the vaccinations than adults is > because their nervous system is not fully developed, their brain is > still developing. So waiting is a posibility. > I have to say that the danger the MDs are talking about when it > comes to the normal childhood diseases is totaly overratet. I had > all of them as a kid. I had a high fever for 1-2 days after 3-4 days > I was fine and that was it (ok smallpox and chickenpox itches, ok > itches really badly ;-) but it is not worse than that :-). > We also have to concider the long term effect of the childhod > diseases. The Antroposofic MDs and some naturapaths belive that all > the different infections we have as kids is important to build a > strong immunesystem to prevent cancer among other things. So dont > suppress a fever unless it is dangerously high for a long period of > time (you should see a doctore if it is anyway). FEver is an > important part of a healthy immunesystem and the bodys defence > against virus and bacteria. If the immunesystem is suppresed with to > much atibiotica it can create ill health and allergies/intolorances. > Im sorry that I dont have any article or links in english about all > this, but it is more widly used here in europe. > > Well the best thing is to get informed, both about the pros and cons > and then decide :-) > > Kristine > > , chandelle' <earthmother213 > wrote: > > > > well, in relation to what's happening in china, i'm mainly > referring to the > > incredible increase in autism. we have brought a lot of culture > to china, > > but cultural things like diet are not really considered in autism > rates (as > > far as i know...i used to work with autistic kids but it's been a > long time, > > so maybe there's something new i don't know about...). some of > the higher > > rates can be blamed on better diagnosis, but i don't think all of > it > > can...especially since the sharp increase began just as the > thimerosol > > debate in the US was gearing up and many thimerosol-ated vaxes > were sent > > over there in capitulation. > > > > and in my own defense, one of my majors was forensic psych, for > three years, > > and i had to take mutiple classes in experiment > design/implementation and > > statistics, so i'm pretty skeptical about studies too. > > > > and thank YOU for being polite. > > > > chandelle' > > > Bored stiff? Loosen up... > Download and play hundreds of games for free on Games. > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 15, 2007 Same medical people telling us to get shots are the people who were telling mothers NOT to breastfeed 40 years ago. Our little one has had no shots. So far it has paid off. What's almost funny is that my wife's best childhood friend grew up to be the vaccine distributor for part of the country! And they are still best friends. I think vaccinations are like a substitute for a healthy lifestyle. Most of us on this list are probably not typical in that regard. Read " A Shot in the Dark " for an analysis of reported side-effects in the pertussis vaccine. Look to see who paid for pro-vaccine information. " Public health " and medical establishment can be fanatic about. Funny that non-organic food or SUVs are never a problem for " Public Health. " One rabid nurse told me not to believe anything I read on the internet and assured me the drug companies have spent millions of dollars to get the truth out (oh, good -- I feel better now ... Later when I asked about sunscreen for an infant, she told me it was no problem at all, " Just Google it. " Later that same day, a horrified pharmacist told me the only safe sunscreen for kids under one is " hat " .... but I digress. Anyway, so much for " Public Health. " Good for them they have finally discovered breastfeeding. There is hope. Take care ~Paul Kadee M wrote: > > > Just realize that YOU are the parent here. Doctors are taught about the > generic child. They know how to vaccinate a generic child, what to feed > a generic child, and everything everything everything about the generic > child. Your child is not a generic child! [. . .] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 15, 2007 I used to have such faith in doctors. We took Leah in for her shots perfectly on time every time, and whatever the doctor said to do, we did it. Then we started planning to get a dog, and I was reading on the internet about how to take care of one. I came across a lot of information about how harmful vaccines can be, and how vets try to make people vaccinate against even little non-life threatening diseases that even the vaccine isn't 100% effective against!! I made the decision then to not vaccinate our dogs. Then that got me to thinking, " what if the same thing is happening with my kids? " So I read up on that, and it's the exact same thing. The companies that make the vaccines are the ones telling us we need them, and most people are under the impression that our government is actually out to protect us so they go in like sheep and have their kids shot full of every vaccine on the planet. Sigh. That is infuriating when people badmouth the internet and then use it themselves. We feed our dogs homemade food, and a vet we used to go to flipped out on us. He said I shouldn't believe everything I read on the internet. Then when I told him I wasn't going to take crap from a guy whose nutrition courses in vet school were paid for by the company whose product just happened to be all over the office, he got mad and said he was on the internet every single day reading about different diets!! Stupid!! Our kids are all so lucky that we do the research we do. It's really sad that a pediatrician's office can be such a dangerous place. Paul Falvo <pfalvo wrote: Same medical people telling us to get shots are the people who were telling mothers NOT to breastfeed 40 years ago. Our little one has had no shots. So far it has paid off. What's almost funny is that my wife's best childhood friend grew up to be the vaccine distributor for part of the country! And they are still best friends. I think vaccinations are like a substitute for a healthy lifestyle. Most of us on this list are probably not typical in that regard. Read " A Shot in the Dark " for an analysis of reported side-effects in the pertussis vaccine. Look to see who paid for pro-vaccine information. " Public health " and medical establishment can be fanatic about. Funny that non-organic food or SUVs are never a problem for " Public Health. " One rabid nurse told me not to believe anything I read on the internet and assured me the drug companies have spent millions of dollars to get the truth out (oh, good -- I feel better now ... Later when I asked about sunscreen for an infant, she told me it was no problem at all, " Just Google it. " Later that same day, a horrified pharmacist told me the only safe sunscreen for kids under one is " hat " ... but I digress. Anyway, so much for " Public Health. " Good for them they have finally discovered breastfeeding. There is hope. Take care ~Paul Kadee M wrote: > > > Just realize that YOU are the parent here. Doctors are taught about the > generic child. They know how to vaccinate a generic child, what to feed > a generic child, and everything everything everything about the generic > child. Your child is not a generic child! [. . .] Kadee Sedtal Brain: " Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering? " Pinky: " I think so, Brain, but if the plural of mouse is mice, wouldn't the plural of spouse be spice? " Check out my new , Classical 2 at http://launch.classical2/ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Search weather shortcut. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 15, 2007 Alopecia is hair loss. It is an autoimmune disorder. It is thought that the body attacks it's own hair follicles because it thinks they are foreign objects in the body (white blood cells are dispatched to " fight the invaders " ). It has not been determined what causes it or how to cure it. It varies between individuals. chandelle' <earthmother213 wrote: isn't alopecia hair loss? On 3/14/07, Heather Russell <iluvemypetz wrote: > > I have never chimed in on this list before but I have something to > contribute to this topic. I have an 8 yr old daughter who was diagnosed > with alopecia 2 yrs ago. This is an autoimmune disorder also. Since it is > not life threatening, there is not alot of research in the area of > causes/cures. They say there is a possible genetic factor but not in all of > the cases. There is not genetic history in my or my husbands family. I > have often questioned immunizations as being the cause. If you look at what > is used as preservatives....We had a hair analysis done and found aluminum > in her system. Aluminum is one preservative. My daughter does not drink > out of aluminum cans so where is all the aluminume coming from? My sons > don't have alopecia but not everyone is affected in the same way. The > doctors totally refute the dangers of immunizations, imagine that? > -Heather > > blomster_fe <shanti wrote: > Here is a few more articles: > > http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/link_between_autism_and_vaccinati > ons.htm > > http://autismcoach.com/Autism%20Declines%20When%20Mercury%20Vaccines% > 20Banned.htm > > I dont belive we should feel guilty for vaccinating our kids. First > of all it is a personal choice, and second of all there is an > enourmous preshure from everywhere in the society to vaccinate. I > know all about it. I have chosen not to vaccinate my daughter, but > my doctore almost accused me of all sorts of things and told me all > the horible stories of what could happend if I dident vaccinate her. > It was a hard battel, my husban totaly belived the doctore (she was > very persuvacive), so I had to fight him too. But how do you explain > a MD that you motherly gut feeling tells you not to expose you > little child to that stuff ??? I would feel more guilty doing it > than not doing it. Yes I do have doughts sometime if it was the > right decition, I will always have, but she is alomst 5 now and > doing great :-) > > If you decide to vaccinate there are several thing you can do to > prevent or minimise problems; first of all it is impotant that the > kid is in top condition, meaning the immunesystem has to be in top > gear. If the kid is snotty or had a cold a few weeks before wait to > vacciante. > Go to a homeopath, they have some nosodes that you can give before > and after the vacciantion, it will help the body to addapt better to > the vaccination. If you kid is vaccinatet you can also get somthing > from the homeopath to heal up an posible effect/damage on the cells. > Or as somone has allready mentioned to be selective with the > vaccination or wait till the kid is older. the reason why babies and > small kids are more sensitive to the vaccinations than adults is > because their nervous system is not fully developed, their brain is > still developing. So waiting is a posibility. > I have to say that the danger the MDs are talking about when it > comes to the normal childhood diseases is totaly overratet. I had > all of them as a kid. I had a high fever for 1-2 days after 3-4 days > I was fine and that was it (ok smallpox and chickenpox itches, ok > itches really badly ;-) but it is not worse than that :-). > We also have to concider the long term effect of the childhod > diseases. The Antroposofic MDs and some naturapaths belive that all > the different infections we have as kids is important to build a > strong immunesystem to prevent cancer among other things. So dont > suppress a fever unless it is dangerously high for a long period of > time (you should see a doctore if it is anyway). FEver is an > important part of a healthy immunesystem and the bodys defence > against virus and bacteria. If the immunesystem is suppresed with to > much atibiotica it can create ill health and allergies/intolorances. > Im sorry that I dont have any article or links in english about all > this, but it is more widly used here in europe. > > Well the best thing is to get informed, both about the pros and cons > and then decide :-) > > Kristine > > , chandelle' <earthmother213 > wrote: > > > > well, in relation to what's happening in china, i'm mainly > referring to the > > incredible increase in autism. we have brought a lot of culture > to china, > > but cultural things like diet are not really considered in autism > rates (as > > far as i know...i used to work with autistic kids but it's been a > long time, > > so maybe there's something new i don't know about...). some of > the higher > > rates can be blamed on better diagnosis, but i don't think all of > it > > can...especially since the sharp increase began just as the > thimerosol > > debate in the US was gearing up and many thimerosol-ated vaxes > were sent > > over there in capitulation. > > > > and in my own defense, one of my majors was forensic psych, for > three years, > > and i had to take mutiple classes in experiment > design/implementation and > > statistics, so i'm pretty skeptical about studies too. > > > > and thank YOU for being polite. > > > > chandelle' > > > Bored stiff? 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Guest guest Report post Posted March 17, 2007 Yeah, i have always been the same way. I guess really the only thing that stumps me now is explaining why we really don't have more illness, like mumps, smallpox, rubella, etc? Apparently at one point, the shots really did help, and the side effects were the lesser of 2 evils? This is the last thing that really confuses me. I never got my daughter vaccinated for less serious illness, but this is the one thing I still wonder about. Anyone with info? Kadee M <abbey_road3012 wrote: I used to have such faith in doctors. We took Leah in for her shots perfectly on time every time, and whatever the doctor said to do, we did it. Then we started planning to get a dog, and I was reading on the internet about how to take care of one. I came across a lot of information about how harmful vaccines can be, and how vets try to make people vaccinate against even little non-life threatening diseases that even the vaccine isn't 100% effective against!! I made the decision then to not vaccinate our dogs. Then that got me to thinking, " what if the same thing is happening with my kids? " So I read up on that, and it's the exact same thing. The companies that make the vaccines are the ones telling us we need them, and most people are under the impression that our government is actually out to protect us so they go in like sheep and have their kids shot full of every vaccine on the planet. Sigh. That is infuriating when people badmouth the internet and then use it themselves. We feed our dogs homemade food, and a vet we used to go to flipped out on us. He said I shouldn't believe everything I read on the internet. Then when I told him I wasn't going to take crap from a guy whose nutrition courses in vet school were paid for by the company whose product just happened to be all over the office, he got mad and said he was on the internet every single day reading about different diets!! Stupid!! Our kids are all so lucky that we do the research we do. It's really sad that a pediatrician's office can be such a dangerous place. Paul Falvo <pfalvo wrote: Same medical people telling us to get shots are the people who were telling mothers NOT to breastfeed 40 years ago. Our little one has had no shots. So far it has paid off. What's almost funny is that my wife's best childhood friend grew up to be the vaccine distributor for part of the country! And they are still best friends. I think vaccinations are like a substitute for a healthy lifestyle. Most of us on this list are probably not typical in that regard. Read " A Shot in the Dark " for an analysis of reported side-effects in the pertussis vaccine. Look to see who paid for pro-vaccine information. " Public health " and medical establishment can be fanatic about. Funny that non-organic food or SUVs are never a problem for " Public Health. " One rabid nurse told me not to believe anything I read on the internet and assured me the drug companies have spent millions of dollars to get the truth out (oh, good -- I feel better now ... Later when I asked about sunscreen for an infant, she told me it was no problem at all, " Just Google it. " Later that same day, a horrified pharmacist told me the only safe sunscreen for kids under one is " hat " .... but I digress. Anyway, so much for " Public Health. " Good for them they have finally discovered breastfeeding. There is hope. Take care ~Paul Kadee M wrote: > > > Just realize that YOU are the parent here. Doctors are taught about the > generic child. They know how to vaccinate a generic child, what to feed > a generic child, and everything everything everything about the generic > child. Your child is not a generic child! [. . .] Kadee Sedtal Brain: " Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering? " Pinky: " I think so, Brain, but if the plural of mouse is mice, wouldn't the plural of spouse be spice? " Check out my new , Classical 2 at http://launch.classical2/ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Search weather shortcut. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 25, 2007 I think that's just it -- at one time the diseases were widespread and the shots the lesser of two evils. We have since not only reduced the incidence of the diseases (admittedly through shots) but also from better sanitation and hygiene. We also have better treatment today for the diseases -- something that rarely gets mentioned. Thats my amateur and unscientific opinion. Kadee mentioned pet shots. Anyone else wonder why cats and dogs get shots annually but humans not that often? I am wondering if it is not a waste of money (and potential health risk) to get pet shots that often. ~Paul L Friend wrote: > > > Yeah, i have always been the same way. I guess really the only thing > that stumps me now is explaining why we really don't have more illness, > like mumps, smallpox, rubella, etc? Apparently at one point, the shots > really did help, and the side effects were the lesser of 2 evils? This > is the last thing that really confuses me. I never got my daughter > vaccinated for less serious illness, but this is the one thing I still > wonder about. Anyone with info? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 25, 2007 They just do the annual vaccines for pets because some people wouldn't take them to the vet for checkups otherwise. They don't actually need annual shots. The rabies vaccine, the one they give every year, is effective for 5 to 7 years!! We have stopped vaccinating our dogs, and we just take them in for checkups every 6 months. That's what works for us. But some people don't want to " waste " money taking their pet in for a checkup if that's all it is. The rabies vaccine is a suspect in a lot of health problems. All those vaccines stress the immune system so much diseases like cancer don't get the attention they need from the immune system, and they get bad really quickly. I just don't see any sense in it, other than a parvo and distemper for puppies since puppies are so vulnerable to those diseases. Paul Falvo <pfalvo wrote: I think that's just it -- at one time the diseases were widespread and the shots the lesser of two evils. We have since not only reduced the incidence of the diseases (admittedly through shots) but also from better sanitation and hygiene. We also have better treatment today for the diseases -- something that rarely gets mentioned. Thats my amateur and unscientific opinion. Kadee mentioned pet shots. Anyone else wonder why cats and dogs get shots annually but humans not that often? I am wondering if it is not a waste of money (and potential health risk) to get pet shots that often. ~Paul L Friend wrote: > > > Yeah, i have always been the same way. I guess really the only thing > that stumps me now is explaining why we really don't have more illness, > like mumps, smallpox, rubella, etc? Apparently at one point, the shots > really did help, and the side effects were the lesser of 2 evils? This > is the last thing that really confuses me. I never got my daughter > vaccinated for less serious illness, but this is the one thing I still > wonder about. Anyone with info? Kadee Sedtal Brain: " Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering? " Pinky: " I think so, Brain, but if the plural of mouse is mice, wouldn't the plural of spouse be spice? " Check out my new , Classical 2 at http://launch.classical2/ TV dinner still cooling? Check out " Tonight's Picks " on TV. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 25, 2007 My beloved cat died before I had children due to a reaction to a routine shot (I didn't question vaccines). It was awful and he died a really hard (thankfully somewhat quick) death. For my future furry guys, I questions vaccines and found holistic vets. Then when I had children and decided after much research not to vaccinate, I found out my father had a reaction to a vaccine and lost three days of his life (basically he lost consciousness at the doctor immediately after the shot and remembers nothing until three days later). He had never told me about this before until I told my parents I wasn't going to vaccinate. They never questions vaccines for us though. Linda --- Paul Falvo <pfalvo wrote: > I think that's just it -- at one time the diseases > were widespread and > the shots the lesser of two evils. We have since not > only reduced the > incidence of the diseases (admittedly through shots) > but also from > better sanitation and hygiene. We also have better > treatment today for > the diseases -- something that rarely gets > mentioned. Thats my amateur > and unscientific opinion. > > Kadee mentioned pet shots. Anyone else wonder why > cats and dogs get > shots annually but humans not that often? I am > wondering if it is not a > waste of money (and potential health risk) to get > pet shots that often. > > ~Paul > > L Friend wrote: > > > > > > Yeah, i have always been the same way. I guess > really the only thing > > that stumps me now is explaining why we really > don't have more illness, > > like mumps, smallpox, rubella, etc? Apparently at > one point, the shots > > really did help, and the side effects were the > lesser of 2 evils? This > > is the last thing that really confuses me. I never > got my daughter > > vaccinated for less serious illness, but this is > the one thing I still > > wonder about. Anyone with info? > Linda http://triballife.net/ A Marketplace for a Better World ______________________________\ ____ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Answers Food & Drink Q & A. http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396545367 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 27, 2007 Paul, For those vets still insisting upon yearly vaccinations, Kadee is absolutely correct and eloquently brief If you want a long winded, detailed account, you can read Message #13795 from me to Kadee. Current veterinary medicine does NOT recommend yearly vaccines for dogs and cats. Of course, there was a time vet medicine did recommend this. Many things have changed, including the way vaccines are made and now how well they stimulate longer lasting immunity and the problem with adverse reactions. The reason pets get " more " vaccines than humans is due to their lifespan. Humans are recommended to get their exmainations every 5 years. Pets - every year. This is because every calendar year in a pet's life equals approximately 5 years in a human's lifespan. A lot can happen in that biological time frame. I have allowed my DD very few vaccines. I was shocked at the number I was told she " needed. " Then I realized that her infancy/toddlerhood was much longer calendar wise than a pup or kitten. So, about 16 - 20 weeks for a pet equals 2 years or so for a kid, imunologically wise. Then every year for a pet equals every 5 years for a kid. Since pet vaccs are now recommended at 3 year intervals this tranlates into a 15 year " human " interval. Regarding rabies, there are 3 year vaccines available but not all states will accept them. This is a public health issue, not an animal health issue. It is controlled by the state health department, not the veterinarians. If your pet has reactions and your state is strict, you can ask for a special waiver allowing the 3 year vaccine (probably from the state veterinarian). On a positive note, there have been studies in Texas that show if a pup is properly vaccinated for rabies and then receives the appropriate rabies vaccine one year later, s/he will not develop rabies during his lifetime, even without additional rabies vaccines. Please note, this is NOT advice or a recommendation to not vaccinate your pet against rabies. I cannot make that recommendation without a proper client-pet- doctor relationship in the states that I am licensed. Just thought you may be interested in how some immunity appears life long while others is not. Carrol nts , Paul Falvo <pfalvo wrote: > >> Kadee mentioned pet shots. Anyone else wonder why cats and dogs get > shots annually but humans not that often? I am wondering if it is not a > waste of money (and potential health risk) to get pet shots that often. > > ~Paul > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 27, 2007 Hi Linda, If I may ask, did your cat have an anaphylatic reaction immediately to the vaccine? Or was there a problem later on? Many people, and many doctors, only think of the immediate problems. It has been established that vaccines cause auto-immune problems after the fact. I used to see some about 6 months post vaccination, especially in overly pure bred dogs - weak immune systems. This time frame has been seen by veterinary immunologist as well. So, it makes sense that we would see it in people too. But, it can be difficult to say definitively yes to a cause and effect relationship when many diseases can be multi-factorial. So sorry about your kitty. I lost one of my babies traumatically in 2002 and I still have a hard time thinking about the events. Carrol , Linda Evans <veganlinda wrote: > > My beloved cat died before I had children due to a > reaction to a routine shot (I didn't question > vaccines). It was awful and he died a really hard > (thankfully somewhat quick) death. For my future > furry guys, I questions vaccines and found holistic > vets. Then when I had children and decided after much > research not to vaccinate, I found out my father had a > reaction to a vaccine and lost three days of his life > (basically he lost consciousness at the doctor > immediately after the shot and remembers nothing until > three days later). He had never told me about this > before until I told my parents I wasn't going to > vaccinate. They never questions vaccines for us > though. > > Linda > --- Paul Falvo <pfalvo wrote: > > > I think that's just it -- at one time the diseases > > were widespread and > > the shots the lesser of two evils. We have since not > > only reduced the > > incidence of the diseases (admittedly through shots) > > but also from > > better sanitation and hygiene. We also have better > > treatment today for > > the diseases -- something that rarely gets > > mentioned. Thats my amateur > > and unscientific opinion. > > > > Kadee mentioned pet shots. Anyone else wonder why > > cats and dogs get > > shots annually but humans not that often? I am > > wondering if it is not a > > waste of money (and potential health risk) to get > > pet shots that often. > > > > ~Paul > > > > L Friend wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yeah, i have always been the same way. I guess > > really the only thing > > > that stumps me now is explaining why we really > > don't have more illness, > > > like mumps, smallpox, rubella, etc? Apparently at > > one point, the shots > > > really did help, and the side effects were the > > lesser of 2 evils? This > > > is the last thing that really confuses me. I never > > got my daughter > > > vaccinated for less serious illness, but this is > > the one thing I still > > > wonder about. Anyone with info? > > > > > Linda > http://triballife.net/ A Marketplace for a Better World > > > > ____________________ ______________ > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > in the Answers Food & Drink Q & A. > http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396545367 > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 27, 2007 For Felix it was the same week (a day or two later) as the shot. He was fine and then went downhill very quickly. I had a necropsy done and finally the vet admitted that the most likely cause was the vaccine. It was awful and I wish I had known better, but I'm glad it did happen so quickly after the shot so I could recognize the link. Linda --- rtillmansmail <rtillmansmail wrote: > Hi Linda, > If I may ask, did your cat have an anaphylatic > reaction immediately > to the vaccine? Or was there a problem later on? > > Many people, and many doctors, only think of the > immediate problems. > It has been established that vaccines cause > auto-immune problems > after the fact. I used to see some about 6 months > post vaccination, > especially in overly pure bred dogs - weak immune > systems. This time > frame has been seen by veterinary immunologist as > well. So, it makes > sense that we would see it in people too. But, it > can be difficult to > say definitively yes to a cause and effect > relationship when many > diseases can be multi-factorial. > > So sorry about your kitty. I lost one of my babies > traumatically in > 2002 and I still have a hard time thinking about the > events. > > Carrol > > , Linda Evans > <veganlinda wrote: > > > > My beloved cat died before I had children due to a > > reaction to a routine shot (I didn't question > > vaccines). It was awful and he died a really hard > > (thankfully somewhat quick) death. For my future > > furry guys, I questions vaccines and found > holistic > > vets. Then when I had children and decided after > much > > research not to vaccinate, I found out my father > had a > > reaction to a vaccine and lost three days of his > life > > (basically he lost consciousness at the doctor > > immediately after the shot and remembers nothing > until > > three days later). He had never told me about > this > > before until I told my parents I wasn't going to > > vaccinate. They never questions vaccines for us > > though. > > > > Linda > > --- Paul Falvo <pfalvo wrote: > > > > > I think that's just it -- at one time the > diseases > > > were widespread and > > > the shots the lesser of two evils. We have since > not > > > only reduced the > > > incidence of the diseases (admittedly through > shots) > > > but also from > > > better sanitation and hygiene. We also have > better > > > treatment today for > > > the diseases -- something that rarely gets > > > mentioned. Thats my amateur > > > and unscientific opinion. > > > > > > Kadee mentioned pet shots. Anyone else wonder > why > > > cats and dogs get > > > shots annually but humans not that often? I am > > > wondering if it is not a > > > waste of money (and potential health risk) to > get > > > pet shots that often. > > > > > > ~Paul > > > > > > L Friend wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, i have always been the same way. I guess > > > really the only thing > > > > that stumps me now is explaining why we really > > > don't have more illness, > > > > like mumps, smallpox, rubella, etc? Apparently > at > > > one point, the shots > > > > really did help, and the side effects were the > > > lesser of 2 evils? This > > > > is the last thing that really confuses me. I > never > > > got my daughter > > > > vaccinated for less serious illness, but this > is > > > the one thing I still > > > > wonder about. Anyone with info? > > > > > > > > > Linda > > http://triballife.net/ A Marketplace for a Better > World > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > ______________ > > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > > in the Answers Food & Drink Q & A. > > > http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396545367 > > > > > Linda http://triballife.net/ A Marketplace for a Better World ______________________________\ ____ Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents./mailbeta/newmail_tools.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
