Guest guest Report post Posted September 18, 2006 We only drink natural water (Poland Spring) so it does not contain fluoride. Our pediatrician recommended that I give my son .5L of fluoride drop every day. It's made by Colgate and I noticed that it contains sucrolose. Do you know of another fluoride option with a natural sweetener? Thanks, Karen and Zach _____ On Behalf Of robin koloms Sunday, September 17, 2006 12:38 PM Re: WAP/sweeteners/beeswax woes We have used the Muir Glen pasta sauces for a long time. We recently tried the Ragu organic; it's a bit sweeter than we like, but not bad. I have purchased both brands at Costco. Kadee M <abbey_road3012@ <abbey_road3012%40> > wrote: Tricky labels list the phrase " natural flavoring " instead of what's really in it, and me being the suspicious-of-big-businesses type, I suspect it's to trick us vegetarians into buying something we shouldn't. Example- Many varieties of Hamburger Helper appear to be vegetarian, but they're not. I read somewhere that Prego does not make a single vegetarian spaghetti sauce! That's the brand I've always used. The label made me feel safe. Companies find every way they can to make their product seem like something it isn't. They lie and mislead, and the FDA allows it so long as they meet certain requirements, which of course to us don't mean anything because without a labeling degree most of us don't know what in the heck they're talking about. I'm going to look this up. If I can get in contact with someone from the FDA, or whoever I'd need to get in touch with about this, I'll post what they say. I'd love to get something started. A little green " V " or something next to the ingredients list wouldn't cost companies anything to add onto packaging, and it'd save us all some time. I'll see what I can find. If anyone else would want to try to figure out how to go about this too, look it up also. This would be a really great thing for all of us. Kadee Sedtal Laura Ballinger wrote: This is something I feel would be very beneficial. I have wondered myself what it would take to get such a lable put on foods. I am fairly new to being vegan, switching mostly with the birth of my daughter and did not know alot about stuff. I am learning as I go. I would definitely support some kind of mandated labeling. They usually will have notes for people allergic to nuts, dairy or soy--so how difficult would it be. Kadee M wrote: That's so awful, I never even knew that. Ugh. Why on earth haven't all we veg people gotten together and made the FDA or whoever is in charge of labeling things, require a vegetarian or vegan label on things? That would save us all SO much time reading labels in the grocery store. Kadee Sedtal earthmother wrote: white, refined " table " sugar is refined through bone char in a bleaching process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural molasses that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste of energy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 18, 2006 Get a good filter for your house and stop spending money on water. The petrochemicals that leach from the plastic into the water are probably worse than what you are avoiding. With a whole house filter you will be reducing carcinogens that your body is absorbing every time you take a bath or shower. Karen Miller <karen wrote: We only drink natural water (Poland Spring) so it does not contain fluoride. Our pediatrician recommended that I give my son .5L of fluoride drop every day. It's made by Colgate and I noticed that it contains sucrolose. Do you know of another fluoride option with a natural sweetener? Thanks, Karen and Zach _____ On Behalf Of robin koloms Sunday, September 17, 2006 12:38 PM Re: WAP/sweeteners/beeswax woes We have used the Muir Glen pasta sauces for a long time. We recently tried the Ragu organic; it's a bit sweeter than we like, but not bad. I have purchased both brands at Costco. Kadee M > wrote: Tricky labels list the phrase " natural flavoring " instead of what's really in it, and me being the suspicious-of-big-businesses type, I suspect it's to trick us vegetarians into buying something we shouldn't. Example- Many varieties of Hamburger Helper appear to be vegetarian, but they're not. I read somewhere that Prego does not make a single vegetarian spaghetti sauce! That's the brand I've always used. The label made me feel safe. Companies find every way they can to make their product seem like something it isn't. They lie and mislead, and the FDA allows it so long as they meet certain requirements, which of course to us don't mean anything because without a labeling degree most of us don't know what in the heck they're talking about. I'm going to look this up. If I can get in contact with someone from the FDA, or whoever I'd need to get in touch with about this, I'll post what they say. I'd love to get something started. A little green " V " or something next to the ingredients list wouldn't cost companies anything to add onto packaging, and it'd save us all some time. I'll see what I can find. If anyone else would want to try to figure out how to go about this too, look it up also. This would be a really great thing for all of us. Kadee Sedtal Laura Ballinger wrote: This is something I feel would be very beneficial. I have wondered myself what it would take to get such a lable put on foods. I am fairly new to being vegan, switching mostly with the birth of my daughter and did not know alot about stuff. I am learning as I go. I would definitely support some kind of mandated labeling. They usually will have notes for people allergic to nuts, dairy or soy--so how difficult would it be. Kadee M wrote: That's so awful, I never even knew that. Ugh. Why on earth haven't all we veg people gotten together and made the FDA or whoever is in charge of labeling things, require a vegetarian or vegan label on things? That would save us all SO much time reading labels in the grocery store. Kadee Sedtal earthmother wrote: white, refined " table " sugar is refined through bone char in a bleaching process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural molasses that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste of energy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 18, 2006 I don't know about all of you, but I have heard/read some scary stuff about flouride! I have used the drops before, but I won't with my 5th child, who just turned 1 yesterday! We also only use bottled water and Tom's toothpaste..please don't tell me that it isn't vegan! I have flouride free toothpaste for the 1 year old. Anyone have pros and cons of flouride? I know you can have too much and develop fluorosis, spots on your teeth! among other heath problems. I have allowed the kids to have flouride treatments at the dentist, but I think I will pass next time.. Rebecca > " Karen Miller " <karen > > > fluoride >Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:36:01 -0400 > >We only drink natural water (Poland Spring) so it does not contain >fluoride. >Our pediatrician recommended that I give my son .5L of fluoride drop every >day. It's made by Colgate and I noticed that it contains sucrolose. Do >you >know of another fluoride option with a natural sweetener? > >Thanks, > > Karen and Zach > > > > _____ > > On >Behalf Of robin koloms >Sunday, September 17, 2006 12:38 PM > >Re: WAP/sweeteners/beeswax woes > > > >We have used the Muir Glen pasta sauces for a long time. We recently tried >the Ragu organic; it's a bit sweeter than we like, but not bad. I have >purchased both brands at Costco. > >Kadee M <abbey_road3012@ <abbey_road3012%40> > >wrote: Tricky labels list the phrase " natural flavoring " instead of what's >really in it, and me being the suspicious-of-big-businesses type, I suspect >it's to trick us vegetarians into buying something we shouldn't. Example- >Many varieties of Hamburger Helper appear to be vegetarian, but they're >not. >I read somewhere that Prego does not make a single vegetarian spaghetti >sauce! That's the brand I've always used. The label made me feel safe. >Companies find every way they can to make their product seem like something >it isn't. They lie and mislead, and the FDA allows it so long as they meet >certain requirements, which of course to us don't mean anything because >without a labeling degree most of us don't know what in the heck they're >talking about. >I'm going to look this up. If I can get in contact with someone from the >FDA, or whoever I'd need to get in touch with about this, I'll post what >they say. I'd love to get something started. A little green " V " or >something >next to the ingredients list wouldn't cost companies anything to add onto >packaging, and it'd save us all some time. I'll see what I can find. If >anyone else would want to try to figure out how to go about this too, look >it up also. This would be a really great thing for all of us. > >Kadee Sedtal > >Laura Ballinger wrote: This is something I feel would be very beneficial. I >have wondered myself what it would take to get such a lable put on foods. I >am fairly new to being vegan, switching mostly with the birth of my >daughter >and did not know alot about stuff. I am learning as I go. I would >definitely >support some kind of mandated labeling. They usually will have notes for >people allergic to nuts, dairy or soy--so how difficult would it be. > >Kadee M wrote: That's so awful, I never even knew that. Ugh. Why on earth >haven't all we veg people gotten together and made the FDA or whoever is in >charge of labeling things, require a vegetarian or vegan label on things? >That would save us all SO much time reading labels in the grocery store. > >Kadee Sedtal > >earthmother wrote: white, refined " table " sugar is refined through bone >char >in a bleaching >process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural molasses >that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that >refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste of >energy? > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 18, 2006 I thought fluoride was a carcinogenic! - Karen Miller Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:36 PM fluoride We only drink natural water (Poland Spring) so it does not contain fluoride. Our pediatrician recommended that I give my son .5L of fluoride drop every day. It's made by Colgate and I noticed that it contains sucrolose. Do you know of another fluoride option with a natural sweetener? Thanks, Karen and Zach _____ On Behalf Of robin koloms Sunday, September 17, 2006 12:38 PM Re: WAP/sweeteners/beeswax woes We have used the Muir Glen pasta sauces for a long time. We recently tried the Ragu organic; it's a bit sweeter than we like, but not bad. I have purchased both brands at Costco. Kadee M <abbey_road3012@ <abbey_road3012%40> > wrote: Tricky labels list the phrase " natural flavoring " instead of what's really in it, and me being the suspicious-of-big-businesses type, I suspect it's to trick us vegetarians into buying something we shouldn't. Example- Many varieties of Hamburger Helper appear to be vegetarian, but they're not. I read somewhere that Prego does not make a single vegetarian spaghetti sauce! That's the brand I've always used. The label made me feel safe. Companies find every way they can to make their product seem like something it isn't. They lie and mislead, and the FDA allows it so long as they meet certain requirements, which of course to us don't mean anything because without a labeling degree most of us don't know what in the heck they're talking about. I'm going to look this up. If I can get in contact with someone from the FDA, or whoever I'd need to get in touch with about this, I'll post what they say. I'd love to get something started. A little green " V " or something next to the ingredients list wouldn't cost companies anything to add onto packaging, and it'd save us all some time. I'll see what I can find. If anyone else would want to try to figure out how to go about this too, look it up also. This would be a really great thing for all of us. Kadee Sedtal Laura Ballinger wrote: This is something I feel would be very beneficial. I have wondered myself what it would take to get such a lable put on foods. I am fairly new to being vegan, switching mostly with the birth of my daughter and did not know alot about stuff. I am learning as I go. I would definitely support some kind of mandated labeling. They usually will have notes for people allergic to nuts, dairy or soy--so how difficult would it be. Kadee M wrote: That's so awful, I never even knew that. Ugh. Why on earth haven't all we veg people gotten together and made the FDA or whoever is in charge of labeling things, require a vegetarian or vegan label on things? That would save us all SO much time reading labels in the grocery store. Kadee Sedtal earthmother wrote: white, refined " table " sugar is refined through bone char in a bleaching process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural molasses that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste of energy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 18, 2006 i don't know much about fluoride, but i know that three of my husband's siblings have those spots on their teeth and they only got them after the water in their area became fluoridated. also, when i was pregnant with my first, i was initially in a CNM practice and she pressured me very, very hard to get a prenatal vitamin that had fluoride in it. i refused after doing some research and finding out that the effects of fluoride in a fetus are indeterminate. (i ultimately left that practice for a homebirth one -- nazi midwives indeed who won't let me make decisions for myself!) so i definitely do not recommend that. i don't know all the arguments for and against fluoridation but i did fluoride treatments in elementary school and i won't be having my kids do them. they do it that way for everyone in hopes that they'll catch the one or two kids whose parents don't make them brush (same reason they give all newborn babies shots and drops for STDs). my son brushes just fine, i don't need a school or government or health department deciding what is and is not acceptable to put in my kids' bodies. we use the tom's of maine or burt's bees toothpastes and they are vegan indeed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 18, 2006 I've read similar things about fluoride. I used to give the kids fluoride drops every day but I don't anymore. Story time: My dogs eat homemade food. Fluoride is not good for dogs, so we don't even use toothpaste on them. Just the brush. Their teeth are beautiful. My kids use toothpaste, just a miniscule amount, and they no longer get the fluoride drops. I think for a child who drinks fluoridated water, takes fluoride drops, and uses fluoride toothpaste, something needs to get cut out. But for a kid who uses just a teeny bit of toothpaste and drinks only a little fluoridated water and does not use any other fluoride products like those drops, they will have what they need to keep their teeth healthy but not enough to cause damage. Just my thoughts. Kadee Sedtal rebecca richard <rebecca_richard wrote: I don't know about all of you, but I have heard/read some scary stuff about flouride! I have used the drops before, but I won't with my 5th child, who just turned 1 yesterday! We also only use bottled water and Tom's toothpaste..please don't tell me that it isn't vegan! I have flouride free toothpaste for the 1 year old. Anyone have pros and cons of flouride? I know you can have too much and develop fluorosis, spots on your teeth! among other heath problems. I have allowed the kids to have flouride treatments at the dentist, but I think I will pass next time.. Rebecca > " Karen Miller " <karen > > > fluoride >Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:36:01 -0400 > >We only drink natural water (Poland Spring) so it does not contain >fluoride. >Our pediatrician recommended that I give my son .5L of fluoride drop every >day. It's made by Colgate and I noticed that it contains sucrolose. Do >you >know of another fluoride option with a natural sweetener? > >Thanks, > > Karen and Zach > > > > _____ > > On >Behalf Of robin koloms >Sunday, September 17, 2006 12:38 PM > >Re: WAP/sweeteners/beeswax woes > > > >We have used the Muir Glen pasta sauces for a long time. We recently tried >the Ragu organic; it's a bit sweeter than we like, but not bad. I have >purchased both brands at Costco. > >Kadee M <abbey_road3012@ <abbey_road3012%40> > >wrote: Tricky labels list the phrase " natural flavoring " instead of what's >really in it, and me being the suspicious-of-big-businesses type, I suspect >it's to trick us vegetarians into buying something we shouldn't. Example- >Many varieties of Hamburger Helper appear to be vegetarian, but they're >not. >I read somewhere that Prego does not make a single vegetarian spaghetti >sauce! That's the brand I've always used. The label made me feel safe. >Companies find every way they can to make their product seem like something >it isn't. They lie and mislead, and the FDA allows it so long as they meet >certain requirements, which of course to us don't mean anything because >without a labeling degree most of us don't know what in the heck they're >talking about. >I'm going to look this up. If I can get in contact with someone from the >FDA, or whoever I'd need to get in touch with about this, I'll post what >they say. I'd love to get something started. A little green " V " or >something >next to the ingredients list wouldn't cost companies anything to add onto >packaging, and it'd save us all some time. I'll see what I can find. If >anyone else would want to try to figure out how to go about this too, look >it up also. This would be a really great thing for all of us. > >Kadee Sedtal > >Laura Ballinger wrote: This is something I feel would be very beneficial. I >have wondered myself what it would take to get such a lable put on foods. I >am fairly new to being vegan, switching mostly with the birth of my >daughter >and did not know alot about stuff. I am learning as I go. I would >definitely >support some kind of mandated labeling. They usually will have notes for >people allergic to nuts, dairy or soy--so how difficult would it be. > >Kadee M wrote: That's so awful, I never even knew that. Ugh. Why on earth >haven't all we veg people gotten together and made the FDA or whoever is in >charge of labeling things, require a vegetarian or vegan label on things? >That would save us all SO much time reading labels in the grocery store. > >Kadee Sedtal > >earthmother wrote: white, refined " table " sugar is refined through bone >char >in a bleaching >process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural molasses >that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that >refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste of >energy? > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 18, 2006 Rebecca asked: <<Anyone have pros and cons of flouride?>> Our holistic dentist has modified her approach over the years. She used to be 100% anti-flouride, but now she differentiates between topical application and ingestion. She still feels strongly about not ingesting flouride, but has found that the topical application -- toothpaste, and the flouride foam used by pediatric dentists during checkups -- makes a substantial positive difference for teeth without *too much* being absorbed into the bloodstream. Liz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 18, 2006 We're renting. But I like the idea of adding of a house filter for the townhouse we're renting. Any suggestions for a good company or brand for a house filter? Thank, - Karen _____ On Behalf Of robin koloms Monday, September 18, 2006 9:49 AM Re: fluoride Get a good filter for your house and stop spending money on water. The petrochemicals that leach from the plastic into the water are probably worse than what you are avoiding. With a whole house filter you will be reducing carcinogens that your body is absorbing every time you take a bath or shower. Karen Miller <karen (AT) bellyshmooze (DOT) <karen%40bellyshmooze.org> org> wrote: We only drink natural water (Poland Spring) so it does not contain fluoride. Our pediatrician recommended that I give my son .5L of fluoride drop every day. It's made by Colgate and I noticed that it contains sucrolose. Do you know of another fluoride option with a natural sweetener? Thanks, Karen and Zach _____ @gro <%40> ups.com [@gro <%40> ups.com] On Behalf Of robin koloms Sunday, September 17, 2006 12:38 PM @gro <%40> ups.com Re: WAP/sweeteners/beeswax woes We have used the Muir Glen pasta sauces for a long time. We recently tried the Ragu organic; it's a bit sweeter than we like, but not bad. I have purchased both brands at Costco. Kadee M > wrote: Tricky labels list the phrase " natural flavoring " instead of what's really in it, and me being the suspicious-of-big-businesses type, I suspect it's to trick us vegetarians into buying something we shouldn't. Example- Many varieties of Hamburger Helper appear to be vegetarian, but they're not. I read somewhere that Prego does not make a single vegetarian spaghetti sauce! That's the brand I've always used. The label made me feel safe. Companies find every way they can to make their product seem like something it isn't. They lie and mislead, and the FDA allows it so long as they meet certain requirements, which of course to us don't mean anything because without a labeling degree most of us don't know what in the heck they're talking about. I'm going to look this up. If I can get in contact with someone from the FDA, or whoever I'd need to get in touch with about this, I'll post what they say. I'd love to get something started. A little green " V " or something next to the ingredients list wouldn't cost companies anything to add onto packaging, and it'd save us all some time. I'll see what I can find. If anyone else would want to try to figure out how to go about this too, look it up also. This would be a really great thing for all of us. Kadee Sedtal Laura Ballinger wrote: This is something I feel would be very beneficial. I have wondered myself what it would take to get such a lable put on foods. I am fairly new to being vegan, switching mostly with the birth of my daughter and did not know alot about stuff. I am learning as I go. I would definitely support some kind of mandated labeling. They usually will have notes for people allergic to nuts, dairy or soy--so how difficult would it be. Kadee M wrote: That's so awful, I never even knew that. Ugh. Why on earth haven't all we veg people gotten together and made the FDA or whoever is in charge of labeling things, require a vegetarian or vegan label on things? That would save us all SO much time reading labels in the grocery store. Kadee Sedtal earthmother wrote: white, refined " table " sugar is refined through bone char in a bleaching process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural molasses that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste of energy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 18, 2006 Um, what isn't carcinogenic these days? Seriously. Kadee Sedtal admartin5 wrote: I thought fluoride was a carcinogenic! - Karen Miller Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:36 PM fluoride We only drink natural water (Poland Spring) so it does not contain fluoride. Our pediatrician recommended that I give my son .5L of fluoride drop every day. It's made by Colgate and I noticed that it contains sucrolose. Do you know of another fluoride option with a natural sweetener? Thanks, Karen and Zach _____ On Behalf Of robin koloms Sunday, September 17, 2006 12:38 PM Re: WAP/sweeteners/beeswax woes We have used the Muir Glen pasta sauces for a long time. We recently tried the Ragu organic; it's a bit sweeter than we like, but not bad. I have purchased both brands at Costco. Kadee M <abbey_road3012@ <abbey_road3012%40> > wrote: Tricky labels list the phrase " natural flavoring " instead of what's really in it, and me being the suspicious-of-big-businesses type, I suspect it's to trick us vegetarians into buying something we shouldn't. Example- Many varieties of Hamburger Helper appear to be vegetarian, but they're not. I read somewhere that Prego does not make a single vegetarian spaghetti sauce! That's the brand I've always used. The label made me feel safe. Companies find every way they can to make their product seem like something it isn't. They lie and mislead, and the FDA allows it so long as they meet certain requirements, which of course to us don't mean anything because without a labeling degree most of us don't know what in the heck they're talking about. I'm going to look this up. If I can get in contact with someone from the FDA, or whoever I'd need to get in touch with about this, I'll post what they say. I'd love to get something started. A little green " V " or something next to the ingredients list wouldn't cost companies anything to add onto packaging, and it'd save us all some time. I'll see what I can find. If anyone else would want to try to figure out how to go about this too, look it up also. This would be a really great thing for all of us. Kadee Sedtal Laura Ballinger wrote: This is something I feel would be very beneficial. I have wondered myself what it would take to get such a lable put on foods. I am fairly new to being vegan, switching mostly with the birth of my daughter and did not know alot about stuff. I am learning as I go. I would definitely support some kind of mandated labeling. They usually will have notes for people allergic to nuts, dairy or soy--so how difficult would it be. Kadee M wrote: That's so awful, I never even knew that. Ugh. Why on earth haven't all we veg people gotten together and made the FDA or whoever is in charge of labeling things, require a vegetarian or vegan label on things? That would save us all SO much time reading labels in the grocery store. Kadee Sedtal earthmother wrote: white, refined " table " sugar is refined through bone char in a bleaching process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural molasses that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste of energy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 18, 2006 Sort of good to know I wasn't alone in having a Nazi involved with my pregnancy. With my daughter, the doctor tried very hard to get me to watch the epidural video " just in case, " even after I told him I absolutely was not for any reason going to get an epidural. I ended up shouting and crying at one nurse who absolutely would not leave me alone about it. I wish they'd just trust some of us to be good parents!! Kadee Sedtal earthmother <earthmother213 wrote: i don't know much about fluoride, but i know that three of my husband's siblings have those spots on their teeth and they only got them after the water in their area became fluoridated. also, when i was pregnant with my first, i was initially in a CNM practice and she pressured me very, very hard to get a prenatal vitamin that had fluoride in it. i refused after doing some research and finding out that the effects of fluoride in a fetus are indeterminate. (i ultimately left that practice for a homebirth one -- nazi midwives indeed who won't let me make decisions for myself!) so i definitely do not recommend that. i don't know all the arguments for and against fluoridation but i did fluoride treatments in elementary school and i won't be having my kids do them. they do it that way for everyone in hopes that they'll catch the one or two kids whose parents don't make them brush (same reason they give all newborn babies shots and drops for STDs). my son brushes just fine, i don't need a school or government or health department deciding what is and is not acceptable to put in my kids' bodies. we use the tom's of maine or burt's bees toothpastes and they are vegan indeed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2006 Ok..We have well water. And no flouride drops. I don't plan on using the flouride toothpaste on the baby, just turned 1,until he is old enough to spit it out. He has two teeth, and two coming in. What do you all think? Rebecca >Kadee M <abbey_road3012 > > >RE: fluoride >Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:55:11 -0700 (PDT) > >I've read similar things about fluoride. I used to give the kids fluoride >drops every day but I don't anymore. Story time: My dogs eat homemade food. >Fluoride is not good for dogs, so we don't even use toothpaste on them. >Just the brush. Their teeth are beautiful. >My kids use toothpaste, just a miniscule amount, and they no longer get the >fluoride drops. I think for a child who drinks fluoridated water, takes >fluoride drops, and uses fluoride toothpaste, something needs to get cut >out. But for a kid who uses just a teeny bit of toothpaste and drinks only >a little fluoridated water and does not use any other fluoride products >like those drops, they will have what they need to keep their teeth healthy >but not enough to cause damage. Just my thoughts. > >Kadee Sedtal > >rebecca richard <rebecca_richard wrote: > I don't know about all of you, but I have heard/read some scary stuff >about > flouride! I have used the drops before, but I won't with my 5th child, >who > just turned 1 yesterday! We also only use bottled water and Tom's > toothpaste..please don't tell me that it isn't vegan! I have flouride >free > toothpaste for the 1 year old. > Anyone have pros and cons of flouride? > I know you can have too much and develop fluorosis, spots on your teeth! > among other heath problems. > I have allowed the kids to have flouride treatments at the dentist, but I > think I will pass next time.. > Rebecca > > > " Karen Miller " <karen > > > > > > fluoride > >Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:36:01 -0400 > > > >We only drink natural water (Poland Spring) so it does not contain > >fluoride. > >Our pediatrician recommended that I give my son .5L of fluoride drop >every > >day. It's made by Colgate and I noticed that it contains sucrolose. Do > >you > >know of another fluoride option with a natural sweetener? > > > >Thanks, > > > > Karen and Zach > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > On > >Behalf Of robin koloms > >Sunday, September 17, 2006 12:38 PM > > > >Re: WAP/sweeteners/beeswax woes > > > > > > > >We have used the Muir Glen pasta sauces for a long time. We recently >tried > >the Ragu organic; it's a bit sweeter than we like, but not bad. I have > >purchased both brands at Costco. > > > >Kadee M <abbey_road3012@ <abbey_road3012%40> > > >wrote: Tricky labels list the phrase " natural flavoring " instead of >what's > >really in it, and me being the suspicious-of-big-businesses type, I >suspect > >it's to trick us vegetarians into buying something we shouldn't. >Example- > >Many varieties of Hamburger Helper appear to be vegetarian, but they're > >not. > >I read somewhere that Prego does not make a single vegetarian spaghetti > >sauce! That's the brand I've always used. The label made me feel safe. > >Companies find every way they can to make their product seem like >something > >it isn't. They lie and mislead, and the FDA allows it so long as they >meet > >certain requirements, which of course to us don't mean anything because > >without a labeling degree most of us don't know what in the heck they're > >talking about. > >I'm going to look this up. If I can get in contact with someone from the > >FDA, or whoever I'd need to get in touch with about this, I'll post what > >they say. I'd love to get something started. A little green " V " or > >something > >next to the ingredients list wouldn't cost companies anything to add >onto > >packaging, and it'd save us all some time. I'll see what I can find. If > >anyone else would want to try to figure out how to go about this too, >look > >it up also. This would be a really great thing for all of us. > > > >Kadee Sedtal > > > >Laura Ballinger wrote: This is something I feel would be very >beneficial. I > >have wondered myself what it would take to get such a lable put on >foods. I > >am fairly new to being vegan, switching mostly with the birth of my > >daughter > >and did not know alot about stuff. I am learning as I go. I would > >definitely > >support some kind of mandated labeling. They usually will have notes for > >people allergic to nuts, dairy or soy--so how difficult would it be. > > > >Kadee M wrote: That's so awful, I never even knew that. Ugh. Why on >earth > >haven't all we veg people gotten together and made the FDA or whoever is >in > >charge of labeling things, require a vegetarian or vegan label on >things? > >That would save us all SO much time reading labels in the grocery store. > > > >Kadee Sedtal > > > >earthmother wrote: white, refined " table " sugar is refined through bone > >char > >in a bleaching > >process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural >molasses > >that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that > >refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste >of > >energy? > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2006 any revers osmosis Karen Miller <karen wrote: We're renting. But I like the idea of adding of a house filter for the townhouse we're renting. Any suggestions for a good company or brand for a house filter? Thank, - Karen _____ On Behalf Of robin koloms Monday, September 18, 2006 9:49 AM Re: fluoride Get a good filter for your house and stop spending money on water. The petrochemicals that leach from the plastic into the water are probably worse than what you are avoiding. With a whole house filter you will be reducing carcinogens that your body is absorbing every time you take a bath or shower. Karen Miller org> wrote: We only drink natural water (Poland Spring) so it does not contain fluoride. Our pediatrician recommended that I give my son .5L of fluoride drop every day. It's made by Colgate and I noticed that it contains sucrolose. Do you know of another fluoride option with a natural sweetener? Thanks, Karen and Zach _____ @gro ups.com [@gro ups.com] On Behalf Of robin koloms Sunday, September 17, 2006 12:38 PM @gro ups.com Re: WAP/sweeteners/beeswax woes We have used the Muir Glen pasta sauces for a long time. We recently tried the Ragu organic; it's a bit sweeter than we like, but not bad. I have purchased both brands at Costco. Kadee M > wrote: Tricky labels list the phrase " natural flavoring " instead of what's really in it, and me being the suspicious-of-big-businesses type, I suspect it's to trick us vegetarians into buying something we shouldn't. Example- Many varieties of Hamburger Helper appear to be vegetarian, but they're not. I read somewhere that Prego does not make a single vegetarian spaghetti sauce! That's the brand I've always used. The label made me feel safe. Companies find every way they can to make their product seem like something it isn't. They lie and mislead, and the FDA allows it so long as they meet certain requirements, which of course to us don't mean anything because without a labeling degree most of us don't know what in the heck they're talking about. I'm going to look this up. If I can get in contact with someone from the FDA, or whoever I'd need to get in touch with about this, I'll post what they say. I'd love to get something started. A little green " V " or something next to the ingredients list wouldn't cost companies anything to add onto packaging, and it'd save us all some time. I'll see what I can find. If anyone else would want to try to figure out how to go about this too, look it up also. This would be a really great thing for all of us. Kadee Sedtal Laura Ballinger wrote: This is something I feel would be very beneficial. I have wondered myself what it would take to get such a lable put on foods. I am fairly new to being vegan, switching mostly with the birth of my daughter and did not know alot about stuff. I am learning as I go. I would definitely support some kind of mandated labeling. They usually will have notes for people allergic to nuts, dairy or soy--so how difficult would it be. Kadee M wrote: That's so awful, I never even knew that. Ugh. Why on earth haven't all we veg people gotten together and made the FDA or whoever is in charge of labeling things, require a vegetarian or vegan label on things? That would save us all SO much time reading labels in the grocery store. Kadee Sedtal earthmother wrote: white, refined " table " sugar is refined through bone char in a bleaching process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural molasses that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste of energy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2006 Epidurals are evil! Kadee M <abbey_road3012 wrote: Sort of good to know I wasn't alone in having a Nazi involved with my pregnancy. With my daughter, the doctor tried very hard to get me to watch the epidural video " just in case, " even after I told him I absolutely was not for any reason going to get an epidural. I ended up shouting and crying at one nurse who absolutely would not leave me alone about it. I wish they'd just trust some of us to be good parents!! Kadee Sedtal earthmother wrote: i don't know much about fluoride, but i know that three of my husband's siblings have those spots on their teeth and they only got them after the water in their area became fluoridated. also, when i was pregnant with my first, i was initially in a CNM practice and she pressured me very, very hard to get a prenatal vitamin that had fluoride in it. i refused after doing some research and finding out that the effects of fluoride in a fetus are indeterminate. (i ultimately left that practice for a homebirth one -- nazi midwives indeed who won't let me make decisions for myself!) so i definitely do not recommend that. i don't know all the arguments for and against fluoridation but i did fluoride treatments in elementary school and i won't be having my kids do them. they do it that way for everyone in hopes that they'll catch the one or two kids whose parents don't make them brush (same reason they give all newborn babies shots and drops for STDs). my son brushes just fine, i don't need a school or government or health department deciding what is and is not acceptable to put in my kids' bodies. we use the tom's of maine or burt's bees toothpastes and they are vegan indeed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2006 Well not that I think kids are dogs, that's not the point I'm making, but our two dogs have great teeth and we brush them with baking soda. I don't think a baby would appreciate that too much, though if I'm able to hold a 55 lb. squirming dog still I'm sure a baby wouldn't be too much trouble [the whole list laughs at this, knowing even a 500 lb. bear is no match for a toddler]. Kadee Sedtal rebecca richard <rebecca_richard wrote: Ok..We have well water. And no flouride drops. I don't plan on using the flouride toothpaste on the baby, just turned 1,until he is old enough to spit it out. He has two teeth, and two coming in. What do you all think? Rebecca >Kadee M <abbey_road3012 > > >RE: fluoride >Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:55:11 -0700 (PDT) > >I've read similar things about fluoride. I used to give the kids fluoride >drops every day but I don't anymore. Story time: My dogs eat homemade food. >Fluoride is not good for dogs, so we don't even use toothpaste on them. >Just the brush. Their teeth are beautiful. >My kids use toothpaste, just a miniscule amount, and they no longer get the >fluoride drops. I think for a child who drinks fluoridated water, takes >fluoride drops, and uses fluoride toothpaste, something needs to get cut >out. But for a kid who uses just a teeny bit of toothpaste and drinks only >a little fluoridated water and does not use any other fluoride products >like those drops, they will have what they need to keep their teeth healthy >but not enough to cause damage. Just my thoughts. > >Kadee Sedtal > >rebecca richard <rebecca_richard wrote: > I don't know about all of you, but I have heard/read some scary stuff >about > flouride! I have used the drops before, but I won't with my 5th child, >who > just turned 1 yesterday! We also only use bottled water and Tom's > toothpaste..please don't tell me that it isn't vegan! I have flouride >free > toothpaste for the 1 year old. > Anyone have pros and cons of flouride? > I know you can have too much and develop fluorosis, spots on your teeth! > among other heath problems. > I have allowed the kids to have flouride treatments at the dentist, but I > think I will pass next time.. > Rebecca > > > " Karen Miller " <karen > > > > > > fluoride > >Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:36:01 -0400 > > > >We only drink natural water (Poland Spring) so it does not contain > >fluoride. > >Our pediatrician recommended that I give my son .5L of fluoride drop >every > >day. It's made by Colgate and I noticed that it contains sucrolose. Do > >you > >know of another fluoride option with a natural sweetener? > > > >Thanks, > > > > Karen and Zach > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > On > >Behalf Of robin koloms > >Sunday, September 17, 2006 12:38 PM > > > >Re: WAP/sweeteners/beeswax woes > > > > > > > >We have used the Muir Glen pasta sauces for a long time. We recently >tried > >the Ragu organic; it's a bit sweeter than we like, but not bad. I have > >purchased both brands at Costco. > > > >Kadee M <abbey_road3012@ <abbey_road3012%40> > > >wrote: Tricky labels list the phrase " natural flavoring " instead of >what's > >really in it, and me being the suspicious-of-big-businesses type, I >suspect > >it's to trick us vegetarians into buying something we shouldn't. >Example- > >Many varieties of Hamburger Helper appear to be vegetarian, but they're > >not. > >I read somewhere that Prego does not make a single vegetarian spaghetti > >sauce! That's the brand I've always used. The label made me feel safe. > >Companies find every way they can to make their product seem like >something > >it isn't. They lie and mislead, and the FDA allows it so long as they >meet > >certain requirements, which of course to us don't mean anything because > >without a labeling degree most of us don't know what in the heck they're > >talking about. > >I'm going to look this up. If I can get in contact with someone from the > >FDA, or whoever I'd need to get in touch with about this, I'll post what > >they say. I'd love to get something started. A little green " V " or > >something > >next to the ingredients list wouldn't cost companies anything to add >onto > >packaging, and it'd save us all some time. I'll see what I can find. If > >anyone else would want to try to figure out how to go about this too, >look > >it up also. This would be a really great thing for all of us. > > > >Kadee Sedtal > > > >Laura Ballinger wrote: This is something I feel would be very >beneficial. I > >have wondered myself what it would take to get such a lable put on >foods. I > >am fairly new to being vegan, switching mostly with the birth of my > >daughter > >and did not know alot about stuff. I am learning as I go. I would > >definitely > >support some kind of mandated labeling. They usually will have notes for > >people allergic to nuts, dairy or soy--so how difficult would it be. > > > >Kadee M wrote: That's so awful, I never even knew that. Ugh. Why on >earth > >haven't all we veg people gotten together and made the FDA or whoever is >in > >charge of labeling things, require a vegetarian or vegan label on >things? > >That would save us all SO much time reading labels in the grocery store. > > > >Kadee Sedtal > > > >earthmother wrote: white, refined " table " sugar is refined through bone > >char > >in a bleaching > >process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural >molasses > >that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that > >refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste >of > >energy? > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2006 Yesssssss. With every fiber of my being I hate needles. Especially big ones in my back. It hurts just thinking about it. Kadee Sedtal robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: Epidurals are evil! Kadee M <abbey_road3012 wrote: Sort of good to know I wasn't alone in having a Nazi involved with my pregnancy. With my daughter, the doctor tried very hard to get me to watch the epidural video " just in case, " even after I told him I absolutely was not for any reason going to get an epidural. I ended up shouting and crying at one nurse who absolutely would not leave me alone about it. I wish they'd just trust some of us to be good parents!! Kadee Sedtal earthmother wrote: i don't know much about fluoride, but i know that three of my husband's siblings have those spots on their teeth and they only got them after the water in their area became fluoridated. also, when i was pregnant with my first, i was initially in a CNM practice and she pressured me very, very hard to get a prenatal vitamin that had fluoride in it. i refused after doing some research and finding out that the effects of fluoride in a fetus are indeterminate. (i ultimately left that practice for a homebirth one -- nazi midwives indeed who won't let me make decisions for myself!) so i definitely do not recommend that. i don't know all the arguments for and against fluoridation but i did fluoride treatments in elementary school and i won't be having my kids do them. they do it that way for everyone in hopes that they'll catch the one or two kids whose parents don't make them brush (same reason they give all newborn babies shots and drops for STDs). my son brushes just fine, i don't need a school or government or health department deciding what is and is not acceptable to put in my kids' bodies. we use the tom's of maine or burt's bees toothpastes and they are vegan indeed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2006 Kadee, As a HypnoBirthing natural childbirth teacher and a birth doula, I understand exactly what you went through. I am constantly working with couples to select their caregiver so that they do not have to fight in the birthing room. They don't bother to educate couples about the down side of the epidural for mom and baby. Many doctors are taught that birth has to be managed. They are amazed when women are calm, relaxed and clear when in labor. The midwifery model of care is one that more caregivers could benefit from adopting. So sorry that you had to fight during a time that could and should have been more peaceful for you. Peace, Laura abbey_road3012 writes: I ended shouting and crying at one nurse who absolutely would not leave me alone about it. I wish they'd just trust some of us to be good parents!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2006 with our son (18 mos.), we use the burt's bees lavendar/mint toothpaste. he loves to brush his teeth and i don't see any point in making it a battle by putting something yucky-tasting in his mouth. and the burt's bees stuff is pretty good, although i think the tom's of maine is more " pure, " with less additives, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2006 or a blessing - I wasn't planning on having one until I was in labor - my son was posterior so it was in my back and unbearable, I had an epidural and ended up having to have a c-section as well. I was glad I had the epidural as you need the anesthetics for the surgery but nonetheless felt guilty for several months after as I was unable to have the natural childbirth I had hoped for. In the end a healthy baby and mother is all that matters so pls try not to pass judgment and add to the guilt of others if they are not able to follow the same path as you. robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: Epidurals are evil! Kadee M wrote: Sort of good to know I wasn't alone in having a Nazi involved with my pregnancy. With my daughter, the doctor tried very hard to get me to watch the epidural video " just in case, " even after I told him I absolutely was not for any reason going to get an epidural. I ended up shouting and crying at one nurse who absolutely would not leave me alone about it. I wish they'd just trust some of us to be good parents!! Kadee Sedtal earthmother wrote: i don't know much about fluoride, but i know that three of my husband's siblings have those spots on their teeth and they only got them after the water in their area became fluoridated. also, when i was pregnant with my first, i was initially in a CNM practice and she pressured me very, very hard to get a prenatal vitamin that had fluoride in it. i refused after doing some research and finding out that the effects of fluoride in a fetus are indeterminate. (i ultimately left that practice for a homebirth one -- nazi midwives indeed who won't let me make decisions for myself!) so i definitely do not recommend that. i don't know all the arguments for and against fluoridation but i did fluoride treatments in elementary school and i won't be having my kids do them. they do it that way for everyone in hopes that they'll catch the one or two kids whose parents don't make them brush (same reason they give all newborn babies shots and drops for STDs). my son brushes just fine, i don't need a school or government or health department deciding what is and is not acceptable to put in my kids' bodies. we use the tom's of maine or burt's bees toothpastes and they are vegan indeed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2006 He he, I didn't even know of any health risks of the epidural, I just didn't want the needle! Second time around was the exact opposite- I wanted the local anesthesia only, like I did get the first time, but Dr. did not give it. I had nothing, and I survived. If there is a next time I will mention that I have experienced childbirth with *no* pain management at all, and if they still bug me about the epidural I will just leave and have the baby in the car. Just kidding, of course, but I'm sure it'd be more peaceful than having 300 people gathered around being noisy while the baby is born. Kadee Sedtal VAP79 wrote: Kadee, As a HypnoBirthing natural childbirth teacher and a birth doula, I understand exactly what you went through. I am constantly working with couples to select their caregiver so that they do not have to fight in the birthing room. They don't bother to educate couples about the down side of the epidural for mom and baby. Many doctors are taught that birth has to be managed. They are amazed when women are calm, relaxed and clear when in labor. The midwifery model of care is one that more caregivers could benefit from adopting. So sorry that you had to fight during a time that could and should have been more peaceful for you. Peace, Laura abbey_road3012 writes: I ended shouting and crying at one nurse who absolutely would not leave me alone about it. I wish they'd just trust some of us to be good parents!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2006 I'm not getting on anyone who chooses differently, just at the people who don't respect decisions made by parents. If someone has the epidural, fine by me. I am absolutely terrified of needles and an epidural for me would have made the experience completely unbearable. When nurses or anyone try to force a mother into something the mother does not want, that is absolutely wrong. Those nurses heard me say a million times saying I did not want it and that I would not for any reason even watch the video. Due to my young age they just assumed I didn't know what I wanted and they kept pressuring me. What anyone else chooses is their own business. Being bombarded by nurses saying " just in case you change your mind " is not a good experience, and the next time around I made it clear on one of my first few visits that I was not going to tolerate being treated that way. When I said I wish they'd just trust us to be good parents, I meant that I wish they'd trust us to make the decisions we feel are right instead of just trying to push us into doing what they think we should. Kadee Sedtal Alexis Middle <alexismiddle wrote: or a blessing - I wasn't planning on having one until I was in labor - my son was posterior so it was in my back and unbearable, I had an epidural and ended up having to have a c-section as well. I was glad I had the epidural as you need the anesthetics for the surgery but nonetheless felt guilty for several months after as I was unable to have the natural childbirth I had hoped for. In the end a healthy baby and mother is all that matters so pls try not to pass judgment and add to the guilt of others if they are not able to follow the same path as you. robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: Epidurals are evil! Kadee M wrote: Sort of good to know I wasn't alone in having a Nazi involved with my pregnancy. With my daughter, the doctor tried very hard to get me to watch the epidural video " just in case, " even after I told him I absolutely was not for any reason going to get an epidural. I ended up shouting and crying at one nurse who absolutely would not leave me alone about it. I wish they'd just trust some of us to be good parents!! Kadee Sedtal earthmother wrote: i don't know much about fluoride, but i know that three of my husband's siblings have those spots on their teeth and they only got them after the water in their area became fluoridated. also, when i was pregnant with my first, i was initially in a CNM practice and she pressured me very, very hard to get a prenatal vitamin that had fluoride in it. i refused after doing some research and finding out that the effects of fluoride in a fetus are indeterminate. (i ultimately left that practice for a homebirth one -- nazi midwives indeed who won't let me make decisions for myself!) so i definitely do not recommend that. i don't know all the arguments for and against fluoridation but i did fluoride treatments in elementary school and i won't be having my kids do them. they do it that way for everyone in hopes that they'll catch the one or two kids whose parents don't make them brush (same reason they give all newborn babies shots and drops for STDs). my son brushes just fine, i don't need a school or government or health department deciding what is and is not acceptable to put in my kids' bodies. we use the tom's of maine or burt's bees toothpastes and they are vegan indeed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2006 The epidural didn't work for me because I have scoliosis. I wish that someone had talked to me about alternative medication. I would've liked to have walked around or practiced some kind of relaxation technique. I was practically tied to my bed. The ******** at Duke had hooked up all kinds of wires to me that I was told not to move as it would mess up their monitoring equipment. About 18 hours of torture trying to be still during contractions. In the end all I got was a local as she started to crown. If there is ever a next time maybe i'll have a midwife or a doula. Renee Alexis Middle <alexismiddle wrote: or a blessing - I wasn't planning on having one until I was in labor - my son was posterior so it was in my back and unbearable, I had an epidural and ended up having to have a c-section as well. I was glad I had the epidural as you need the anesthetics for the surgery but nonetheless felt guilty for several months after as I was unable to have the natural childbirth I had hoped for. In the end a healthy baby and mother is all that matters so pls try not to pass judgment and add to the guilt of others if they are not able to follow the same path as you. robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: Epidurals are evil! Kadee M wrote: Sort of good to know I wasn't alone in having a Nazi involved with my pregnancy. With my daughter, the doctor tried very hard to get me to watch the epidural video " just in case, " even after I told him I absolutely was not for any reason going to get an epidural. I ended up shouting and crying at one nurse who absolutely would not leave me alone about it. I wish they'd just trust some of us to be good parents!! Kadee Sedtal earthmother wrote: i don't know much about fluoride, but i know that three of my husband's siblings have those spots on their teeth and they only got them after the water in their area became fluoridated. also, when i was pregnant with my first, i was initially in a CNM practice and she pressured me very, very hard to get a prenatal vitamin that had fluoride in it. i refused after doing some research and finding out that the effects of fluoride in a fetus are indeterminate. (i ultimately left that practice for a homebirth one -- nazi midwives indeed who won't let me make decisions for myself!) so i definitely do not recommend that. i don't know all the arguments for and against fluoridation but i did fluoride treatments in elementary school and i won't be having my kids do them. they do it that way for everyone in hopes that they'll catch the one or two kids whose parents don't make them brush (same reason they give all newborn babies shots and drops for STDs). my son brushes just fine, i don't need a school or government or health department deciding what is and is not acceptable to put in my kids' bodies. we use the tom's of maine or burt's bees toothpastes and they are vegan indeed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2006 I wonder if the video mentions the negatives of epidurals: increased rate of c-section, delayed breastfeeding, severe headaches, interference with maternal bonding, etc. Kadee M <abbey_road3012 wrote: I'm not getting on anyone who chooses differently, just at the people who don't respect decisions made by parents. If someone has the epidural, fine by me. I am absolutely terrified of needles and an epidural for me would have made the experience completely unbearable. When nurses or anyone try to force a mother into something the mother does not want, that is absolutely wrong. Those nurses heard me say a million times saying I did not want it and that I would not for any reason even watch the video. Due to my young age they just assumed I didn't know what I wanted and they kept pressuring me. What anyone else chooses is their own business. Being bombarded by nurses saying " just in case you change your mind " is not a good experience, and the next time around I made it clear on one of my first few visits that I was not going to tolerate being treated that way. When I said I wish they'd just trust us to be good parents, I meant that I wish they'd trust us to make the decisions we feel are right instead of just trying to push us into doing what they think we should. Kadee Sedtal Alexis Middle wrote: or a blessing - I wasn't planning on having one until I was in labor - my son was posterior so it was in my back and unbearable, I had an epidural and ended up having to have a c-section as well. I was glad I had the epidural as you need the anesthetics for the surgery but nonetheless felt guilty for several months after as I was unable to have the natural childbirth I had hoped for. In the end a healthy baby and mother is all that matters so pls try not to pass judgment and add to the guilt of others if they are not able to follow the same path as you. robin koloms wrote: Epidurals are evil! Kadee M wrote: Sort of good to know I wasn't alone in having a Nazi involved with my pregnancy. With my daughter, the doctor tried very hard to get me to watch the epidural video " just in case, " even after I told him I absolutely was not for any reason going to get an epidural. I ended up shouting and crying at one nurse who absolutely would not leave me alone about it. I wish they'd just trust some of us to be good parents!! Kadee Sedtal earthmother wrote: i don't know much about fluoride, but i know that three of my husband's siblings have those spots on their teeth and they only got them after the water in their area became fluoridated. also, when i was pregnant with my first, i was initially in a CNM practice and she pressured me very, very hard to get a prenatal vitamin that had fluoride in it. i refused after doing some research and finding out that the effects of fluoride in a fetus are indeterminate. (i ultimately left that practice for a homebirth one -- nazi midwives indeed who won't let me make decisions for myself!) so i definitely do not recommend that. i don't know all the arguments for and against fluoridation but i did fluoride treatments in elementary school and i won't be having my kids do them. they do it that way for everyone in hopes that they'll catch the one or two kids whose parents don't make them brush (same reason they give all newborn babies shots and drops for STDs). my son brushes just fine, i don't need a school or government or health department deciding what is and is not acceptable to put in my kids' bodies. we use the tom's of maine or burt's bees toothpastes and they are vegan indeed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2006 i am not under any circumstances capitulating for nurses here, but i will explain why they pressure women so much to have drugs. on the one hand you have a woman who is awake and aware and whose body is most likely telling her to move. so this women is not going to stay in bed, she is going to make noises spontanteously, she might squat or rock or moan, her partner is wandering around after her with ginger ale and cold packs, maybe she has a doula who is encouraging her to walk and take showers and generally make a mess. a good nurse who is doing evidence-based care would come and auscultate (listen with a doppler) that woman every 20-30 minutes or so, but on most nursing floors they claim to not have enough nurses for that (and due to nursing cut-backs, many times that is true). on the other hand, you have a woman on an epidural. she is strapped to the bed by a monitor, which becomes 100% necessary with an epi because of the risks to the baby (although they are not likely to tell you that). this woman is complacently sitting or lying or sleeping through her labor while the partner watches football. her contractions are monitored not by a nurse actually touching or communicating with her, but by a single nurse at a central kiosk. now imagine a whole labor floor of women either a) listening to their bodies and being general pains in the asses by moving, rocking, making noise, needing to be touched and reassured by nurses, auscultated, encouraged, and paid attention to, or b) a whole floor of laboring women who are laying in bed requiring nothing but a single nurse to watch everyone's contractions on a single screen. now, you are an overtired, oveworked, underpaid and underappreciated nurse. which would you prefer? you can bet you'd be drug pusher too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2006 My dentist said that reverse osmosis filters do NOT remove fluoride from the water, and recommended we use bottled water. I'm hoping he was wrong about that, does anyone know? Thanks, Bonnie - robin koloms<rkoloms < > Monday, September 18, 2006 8:52 PM RE: fluoride any revers osmosis Karen Miller <karen<karen> wrote: We're renting. But I like the idea of adding of a house filter for the townhouse we're renting. Any suggestions for a good company or brand for a house filter? Thank, - Karen _____ < > On Behalf Of robin koloms Monday, September 18, 2006 9:49 AM < > Re: fluoride Get a good filter for your house and stop spending money on water. The petrochemicals that leach from the plastic into the water are probably worse than what you are avoiding. With a whole house filter you will be reducing carcinogens that your body is absorbing every time you take a bath or shower. Karen Miller org> wrote: We only drink natural water (Poland Spring) so it does not contain fluoride. Our pediatrician recommended that I give my son .5L of fluoride drop every day. It's made by Colgate and I noticed that it contains sucrolose. Do you know of another fluoride option with a natural sweetener? Thanks, Karen and Zach _____ @gro ups.com [@gro ups.com] On Behalf Of robin koloms Sunday, September 17, 2006 12:38 PM @gro ups.com Re: WAP/sweeteners/beeswax woes We have used the Muir Glen pasta sauces for a long time. We recently tried the Ragu organic; it's a bit sweeter than we like, but not bad. I have purchased both brands at Costco. Kadee M > wrote: Tricky labels list the phrase " natural flavoring " instead of what's really in it, and me being the suspicious-of-big-businesses type, I suspect it's to trick us vegetarians into buying something we shouldn't. Example- Many varieties of Hamburger Helper appear to be vegetarian, but they're not. I read somewhere that Prego does not make a single vegetarian spaghetti sauce! That's the brand I've always used. The label made me feel safe. Companies find every way they can to make their product seem like something it isn't. They lie and mislead, and the FDA allows it so long as they meet certain requirements, which of course to us don't mean anything because without a labeling degree most of us don't know what in the heck they're talking about. I'm going to look this up. If I can get in contact with someone from the FDA, or whoever I'd need to get in touch with about this, I'll post what they say. I'd love to get something started. A little green " V " or something next to the ingredients list wouldn't cost companies anything to add onto packaging, and it'd save us all some time. I'll see what I can find. If anyone else would want to try to figure out how to go about this too, look it up also. This would be a really great thing for all of us. Kadee Sedtal Laura Ballinger wrote: This is something I feel would be very beneficial. I have wondered myself what it would take to get such a lable put on foods. I am fairly new to being vegan, switching mostly with the birth of my daughter and did not know alot about stuff. I am learning as I go. I would definitely support some kind of mandated labeling. They usually will have notes for people allergic to nuts, dairy or soy--so how difficult would it be. Kadee M wrote: That's so awful, I never even knew that. Ugh. Why on earth haven't all we veg people gotten together and made the FDA or whoever is in charge of labeling things, require a vegetarian or vegan label on things? That would save us all SO much time reading labels in the grocery store. Kadee Sedtal earthmother wrote: white, refined " table " sugar is refined through bone char in a bleaching process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural molasses that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste of energy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 19, 2006 Please don't assume that epidurals are always neccessarily evil. I wanted natural child birth with both of my kids but ended up with an epidural both times. The first time, my water broke but I did not go into labor. They ended up having to induce (with two different drugs) and eventually contractions started but they were so violent, close together, and painful that eventually my doctor told me that if I didnt get an epidural to allow me to rest that I might not have the energy to push when the time came. I got one. The second time I was in labor (induced again because I had high blood pressure and was overdue) for over 24 hours and the baby was not desending. The baby's heart rate started fluctuating and they ended up doing an emergency c-section (with epidural). Turned out his foot was wrapped up in the umbilical chord and the c-section may have saved his life. (Sorry for the long post not really related to vegetarian parenting!) Rachael , robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: > > Epidurals are evil! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
