Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 As I said previously, my neighbours love my cats as they frequently tell me! Everyone in my road knows their names and one neighbour even bought some cat food for me one time! My cats don't kill - they can't be bothered. Eat, sleep, eat, sleep. That's pretty much what they like to do! They like to sleep in the fresh air though and its great to see them spread out on the lawn fast asleep. I am not a nuisance to my neighbours. Actually one neighbour was encouraging my black cat into her house all the time and I had to tell her not to do that! They want to hijack my cats. LOL! Don't assume that all *neighbours* are like you. Janey x - Peter Friday, July 12, 2002 11:09 PM Re: Cats!!! Janey > My cats always ask to go out. When they come back in they are happy and refreshed. I would never deprive them of their > freedom. Who am I to take that away from them?! So, you wouldn't take away freedom from a cat, but you do take away freedom from humans - i.e. the freedom to live without their neighbours being a nuisance. And, of course, the freedom of the birds, voles, bats etc. to live. As you say - who are you to take away these freedoms? BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 I've already answered this twice before. Janey x <But obviously not someone who has any concern for wild birds or your neighbours.> BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 I live in the UK . It is not so dangerous here ----we don't even have guns EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] 12 July 2002 19:53 Subject: RE: Cats!!!simpleyou abrogate yer responsibility when you let yer kitties out the cat flap doorwould you let a pit bull do the same?yer child?cats are cats..which means they get smashed by cars, catch birds, eat trash, get chased by dogs, get into fights with cats, get et by coyotes, drink anti-freeze, mate like lil bumpkins..etcfraggle"Janey" <janey wrote: --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Janey My cats always ask to go out. When they come back in they are happy and refreshed. I would never deprive them of their freedom. Who am I to take that away from them?! But you take away the lives of birds by keeping a cat. Doesn't the decline in the numbers of songbirds worry you, or is it just that you like cats and don't bother about other lives? Jo ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 i know where you live angie wow..that came out all weird and threatening silly computers..just can't show facial expressions.. " Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote: >I live in the UK . It is not so dangerous here ----we don't even have >guns > >Angie > > >EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] >12 July 2002 19:53 > >RE: Cats!!! > > >simple >you abrogate yer responsibility when you let yer kitties out the cat >flap door >would you let a pit bull do the same? >yer child? >cats are cats..which means they get smashed by cars, catch birds, eat >trash, get chased by dogs, get into fights with cats, get et by coyotes, >drink anti-freeze, mate like lil bumpkins.. >etc >fraggle > " Janey " <janey wrote: > > > > > >--- > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002 > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Janey >However Jo, you simply can't compare cats to humans (ie. men raping women, or sending animals off to be slaughtered). Cats >don't speak the English language and understand right from wrong. Its ludicrous to think that way and completely unjust. I don't compare cats to humans - I was pointing out that by the nature of being vegan, and the nature of laws, it is clear that 'the law' permits plenty of activities that are not morally/socially acceptable. Jo ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 I still think animals should be free . Birds /rodents foxes etc are free . Cats should also be free ..Feeding them means they will not be hungry and less likely to catch birds. I know you have to take some responsibility but that does not have to mean imprisonment . My cats like to eat grass etc and climb trees . I have given my son more freedom than the Soc Services think is right , but I realised long age that I could do as I saw fit and live with the consequences or do as the Soc Services said and put up with the results if they were wrong. Being Free I prefer to be in charge of my actions not be dictated to by those in authority . They do get it wrong sometimes!!! That is why I disagree with your comments about responsible pet ownership ,--- as if you have the right answers . We shall have to agree to differ . But I am not sure why you think those of us who disagree are irresponsible . Has a higher authority given you the rules unbeknownst to the rest of us Heartwork [Heartwork] 12 July 2002 20:14 Re: Cats!!! I presume you took responsibility for your sons behaviour. You gave birth to him (or adopted him) and took responsibility for him. The same should apply if you adopt a cat. Humans do not live totally natural lives - we do not live in cold caves and freeze to death in winter, so why should we expect to give the excuse that a cat should live a totally natural life - eating tinned cooked meat (they don't do that in the wild you know), and sleeping indoors is not a natural life. When you change nature you have to take some responsibility for the changes you have effected. Jo > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 ok..last comment..really angie dear..cats don't have to be hungry to kill birds..it is part of their nature to hunt..so they do... you could feed em til the lil bits came out their ears, and they would still probably hunt they are domesticated animals that we have brought into our homes... its amight different then foxes..but, if ya want a comparision..we let foxes go on islands of the american coast..whoops, they ate all the birds..whoops, some are going extinct the foxes were just doin wot came natural..and the birds didn't know wot hit them... is that all ok? man brings about more destruction you luv yer kitties(cats)..great..wunderbar... i don't think that is the issue at all... ah..the heck with it..we ain't ever gonna see eye to eye..wait..how tall are you, do i need to get on a stool? fraggle " Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote: >I still think animals should be free . Birds /rodents foxes etc are >free . Cats should also be free ..Feeding them means they will not be >hungry and less likely to catch birds. I know you have to take some >responsibility but that does not have to mean imprisonment . My cats >like to eat grass etc and climb trees . > > I have given my son more freedom than the Soc Services think is right , >but I realised long age that I could do as I saw fit and live with the >consequences or do as the Soc Services said and put up with the results >if they were wrong. >Being Free I prefer to be in charge of my actions not be dictated to by >those in authority . They do get it wrong sometimes!!! > > That is why I disagree with your comments about responsible pet >ownership ,--- as if you have the right answers . We shall have to agree >to differ . But I am not sure why you think those of us who disagree are >irresponsible . Has a higher authority given you the rules unbeknownst >to the rest of us > >Angie > > >Heartwork [Heartwork] >12 July 2002 20:14 > >Re: Cats!!! > > >Angie > >I presume you took responsibility for your sons behaviour. You gave >birth to him (or adopted him) and took responsibility for him. The same >should apply if you adopt a cat. Humans do not live totally natural >lives - we do not live in cold caves and freeze to death in winter, so >why should we expect to give the excuse that a cat should live a totally >natural life - eating tinned cooked meat (they don't do that in the wild >you know), and sleeping indoors is not a natural life. When you change >nature you have to take some responsibility for the changes you have >effected. > >Jo > >> >> >> To send an email to - >> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 When we were on a fortnight's holiday the other day, one of my three cats was locked in the whole time because he has a tendency to go wandering for days on end when we go away. When we came home he was so fat due to lack of exercise. I couldn't wait to let him out and it was lovely to see him run up a tree - get some exercise and fresh air in his lungs. Just goes to show that keeping cats indoors isn't healthy. Janey x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Here here Janey [janey] 12 July 2002 21:01 Subject: Re: Cats!!! Keeping cats looked indoors (in my opinion) is cruel. I've never agreed with it and never will. Cats need fresh air and their freedom. Just like the rest of us! My cats always ask to go out. When they come back in they are happy and refreshed. I would never deprive them of their freedom. Who am I to take that away from them?! Janey x --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Would be nice though if drivers would be more careful, a lot more careful, when I was a kid all the neighbours and ourselves had cats killed on the road. Lesley Angie Wright [angiewright]13 July 2002 00:32 Subject: RE: Cats!!! Here here Janey [janey] 12 July 2002 21:01 Subject: Re: Cats!!! Keeping cats looked indoors (in my opinion) is cruel. I've never agreed with it and never will. Cats need fresh air and their freedom. Just like the rest of us! My cats always ask to go out. When they come back in they are happy and refreshed. I would never deprive them of their freedom. Who am I to take that away from them?! Janey x To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Well, let's just discount the falling bird population then, shall we. It seems they have a right to their freedom to be killed by cats, so that's okay then. Jo Thank heavens for some sense from someone not biased against cats . Cats are part of the world and just like birds should have freedom . Enough animals are imprisoned by humans as it is Janey [janey] !!! Cats are cats! By law they can go wherever they please! You can't train a cat to bury its poo properly or not sniff around your car! Geez!!! How on earth are cat owners meant to take responsibility? I don't understand?! I let my cats out through the cat flap and then I go to work! I can't sit and watch them all day - nor would they want me around anyway! Janey - To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Angie The cat would kill them if you let them out. Jo Mine are free agents too and usually choose to come in at night but not always on hot summer night . better a short free life than a long one of boredom and imprisonment . I have the same attitude to my Downs son . If he wants to go to the all night shop after dark , he goes . the social services expect me to lock him in !!!! Suppose we had a fire and he couldn't unlock the door !!!! . Freedom is valuable ' I only wish I didn't have to imprison the rats Janey [janey] I totally agree Angie. :-) But I can't work out how Peter thinks a cat owner should take responsibility??? How on earth can you keep tabs on a cat all day? By law cats can go and do what they please. By law! Love, Janey x p.s. I keep my cats locked in at night because one was killed by a car at night, but apart from that they go and do as they please! :-) To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Are you lucky enough to not see numbers of dead cats on the road? and .. although they may be able to fend for themselves, they still kill other animals. Jo Adults should have the freedom to wander outside A cat is an adult and unless brain damaged or physically handicapped should be able to fend for itself ....unless you live next to a major road of course . What is a kittie ? ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 I got the cats so less would be put down . I don't neccessarily get an animal because I want it !!! I didn't want the rats but someone had to have them as they were homeless . Who are you to decide who is responsible and who is not ! And how can you state that a cat you don't know is a nuisance . You might as well say all dogs bite ,all school ghildren steal/ all old people...... etc etc substitute races/creeds/sexes/ Peter [snowbow] 12 July 2002 22:46 Subject: Re: Cats!!! Hi Janey > Geez!!! How on earth are cat owners meant to take responsibility? Y'see - another one not willing to take responsibility. You make a decision to look after cat - you therefore have a moral responsibility to those around you to make sure it is not a nuisance. Very simple. If you don't see how you can take that responsibility, you should not get the cats in the first place. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 You are not welsh are you Peter ? Peter [snowbow] 12 July 2002 23:07 Subject: Re: Cats!!! > It's strange you put such store by the law. The law says it is okay to rear, kill and eat animals and that vivisection is alright. > Until a year or two ago the law also said it was alright for a man to rape his wife - he was beyond the law. Ah well - the law must > be right, mustn't it? Of course, according to the law, it is still OK to kill Welshmen in certain parts of Shropshire (except on Sundays). According to the letter of the law, it is illegal to gather in groups of more than three without police permission. It is legal to urinate on the rear wheel of your car provided you are touching the roof of your car with your right hand. And it is illegal to commune with trees. I hope that anyone who is keen to quote the law will remember to take advantage of these. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 You are free to go out . the birds/voles etc are free . Do you drive /ride on a bus . these kill things . Thats life Peter [snowbow] 12 July 2002 23:10 Subject: Re: Cats!!! Janey > My cats always ask to go out. When they come back in they are happy and refreshed. I would never deprive them of their > freedom. Who am I to take that away from them?! So, you wouldn't take away freedom from a cat, but you do take away freedom from humans - i.e. the freedom to live without their neighbours being a nuisance. And, of course, the freedom of the birds, voles, bats etc. to live. As you say - who are you to take away these freedoms? BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 angie...you can't kill peter... its in his contract as list mom... you guys should take this over to vegan network so you can drive john crazy fraggle " Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote: >You are not welsh are you Peter ? > >Angie > > >Peter [snowbow] >12 July 2002 23:07 > >Re: Cats!!! > > >> It's strange you put such store by the law. The law says it is okay >to rear, kill and eat animals and that vivisection is alright. >> Until a year or two ago the law also said it was alright for a man to >rape his wife - he was beyond the law. Ah well - the law must >> be right, mustn't it? > >Of course, according to the law, it is still OK to kill Welshmen in >certain parts of Shropshire (except on Sundays). According to the letter >of the law, it is illegal to gather in groups of more than three without >police permission. It is legal to urinate on the rear wheel of your car >provided you are touching the roof of your car with your right hand. And >it is illegal to commune with trees. > >I hope that anyone who is keen to quote the law will remember to take >advantage of these. > >BB >Peter > > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (HYPERLINK > " http://www.grisoft.com " http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Come on then Fraggle - start a new topic - something meaty (if you'll excuse the expression) :-) Jo > kittie=kitty=cat > > and..i'm done fer a bit..you kids take this fer awhile > i've said my piece... > i'll happily natter on about something else... > fraggle > > > " Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote: > > >Adults should have the freedom to wander outside A cat is an adult and > >unless brain damaged or physically handicapped should be able to fend > >for itself ....unless you live next to a major road of course . What is > >a kittie ? > > > >Angie > > > > > >EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] > >12 July 2002 19:43 > > > >RE: Cats!!! > > > > > >thats why kitties should be kept inside..cuz they do wot they want > >would you let yer 3 yr old wander around unattended? > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- > > > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002 > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Hi Janey I am not a nuisance to my neighbours. Actually one neighbour was encouraging my black cat into her house all the time and I had to tell her not to do that! They want to hijack my cats. LOL! That probably means they have mice. Jo ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 How many birds have you seen Janey's cats kill ? . They are not tied down they can fly away . Are you going to imprison Big cats because they kill antelope ? What do Janeys cats do in Torquay are they roaming ibn prides attacking unsuspecting Humans . Glad I don't holiday down there ! Peter [snowbow] 12 July 2002 23:12 Subject: Re: Cats!!! Janey > However Jo, you simply can't compare cats to humans (ie. men raping women, or sending animals off to be slaughtered). Cats > don't speak the English language and understand right from wrong. Which is precisely why their owners should have to take responsibility for them. > But it is a fact (like it or not) that cats by law can go wherever they like. I never thought I would have to justify cats to vegans but > I was wrong. It isn't cats that you have to justify - it is the irresponsible cat owners. > I have given (and always have given) my cats a loving home with food, love and warmth. I will continue to look after cats > throughout my life. I consider myself a pet loving vegan. But obviously not someone who has any concern for wild birds or your neighbours. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 No point you hide under tables with your paws over your eyes don't you EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] 13 July 2002 00:22 Subject: RE: Cats!!!ok..last comment..reallyangie dear..cats don't have to be hungry to kill birds..it is part of their nature to hunt..so they do...you could feed em til the lil bits came out their ears, and they would still probably huntthey are domesticated animals that we have brought into our homes...its amight different then foxes..but, if ya want a comparision..we let foxes go on islands of the american coast..whoops, they ate all the birds..whoops, some are going extinctthe foxes were just doin wot came natural..and the birds didn't know wot hit them...is that all ok? man brings about more destructionyou luv yer kitties(cats)..great..wunderbar...i don't think that is the issue at all...ah..the heck with it..we ain't ever gonna see eye to eye..wait..how tall are you, do i need to get on a stool?fraggle>effected.>>Jo>>>>>>> To send an email to - >>>> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 !!!! excuse me ?? and wot pray tell does that mean?? " Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote: >No point you hide under tables with your paws over your eyes don't >you > >Angie > > >EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] >13 July 2002 00:22 > >RE: Cats!!! > > >ok..last comment..really >angie dear..cats don't have to be hungry to kill birds..it is part of >their nature to hunt..so they do... >you could feed em til the lil bits came out their ears, and they would >still probably hunt >they are domesticated animals that we have brought into our homes... >its amight different then foxes..but, if ya want a comparision..we let >foxes go on islands of the american coast..whoops, they ate all the >birds..whoops, some are going extinct >the foxes were just doin wot came natural..and the birds didn't know wot >hit them... >is that all ok? man brings about more destruction >you luv yer kitties(cats)..great..wunderbar... >i don't think that is the issue at all... >ah..the heck with it..we ain't ever gonna see eye to eye..wait..how tall >are you, do i need to get on a stool? >fraggle > >>effected. >> >>Jo >> >>> >>> >>> To send an email to >- >>> >>> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Angie, when you say "... my cats", then those cats are no longer free. They now belong to you ... end of their freedom. To be totally free, they can't belong to anyone ... like a wild bird or fox. Werner. ---- Friday, July 12, 2002 6:18:17 PM RE: Cats!!! I still think animals should be free . Birds /rodents foxes etc arefree . Cats should also be free ..Feeding them means they will not behungry and less likely to catch birds. I know you have to take someresponsibility but that does not have to mean imprisonment . My catslike to eat grass etc and climb trees .I have given my son more freedom than the Soc Services think is right ,but I realised long age that I could do as I saw fit and live with theconsequences or do as the Soc Services said and put up with the resultsif they were wrong. Being Free I prefer to be in charge of my actions not be dictated to bythose in authority . They do get it wrong sometimes!!! That is why I disagree with your comments about responsible petownership ,--- as if you have the right answers . We shall have to agreeto differ . But I am not sure why you think those of us who disagree areirresponsible . Has a higher authority given you the rules unbeknownstto the rest of us AngieHeartwork [Heartwork] 12 July 2002 20:14 Subject: Re: Cats!!!AngieI presume you took responsibility for your sons behaviour. You gavebirth to him (or adopted him) and took responsibility for him. The sameshould apply if you adopt a cat. Humans do not live totally naturallives - we do not live in cold caves and freeze to death in winter, sowhy should we expect to give the excuse that a cat should live a totallynatural life - eating tinned cooked meat (they don't do that in the wildyou know), and sleeping indoors is not a natural life. When you changenature you have to take some responsibility for the changes you haveeffected.Jo>>> To send an email to - >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 If you want your kitty to live long and be healthy and happy keep them indoors always. They are just like Fraggle says, little babies and it's too dangerous for them to play outside alone. - EBbrewpunx Friday, July 12, 2002 2:43 PM RE: Cats!!! thats why kitties should be kept inside..cuz they do wot they wantwould you let yer 3 yr old wander around unattended?"Janey" <janey wrote:>Message>I totally agree Angie. :-) But I can't work out how Peter thinks a cat owner should take responsibility??? How on earth can you keep tabs on a cat all day? By law cats can go and do what they please. By law!>>Love, Janey>x>p.s. I keep my cats locked in at night because one was killed by a car at night, but apart from that they go and do as they please! :-)>> My cats have never killed birds (as far as I know ). And my cats decide when they want to go out . If they are out at night They can't bother you ? and there is less traffic and no birds so night seems best to me , But as I said the cat's choose , I would not wish to dictate to them what they should do . Not many people dictate to me ....except my employers ! .>> I see the cats poo in my garden , but I never see the poo . Don't be too crushed Lesley !!!! You are not talking rubbish>> Its a criminal offense to drop litter also but are the streets clean ? No !> Cats are not considered by law to be the property of humans ,...the way a dog is , So a person could be fined if their dog pooed and they left it , not so with a cat>> Make sure peter you tell us all what is responsible cat ownership is because obviously we are all in the wrong . and we haven't been listening to you.>> I shall go and punish myself very severely because you are obviously right and the rest of us wrong ......Its not just that you are a cat hater is it ??? I'm a human hater and the plans I have for them .....I'll share them with you sometime>>> Angie>>To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
