Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Yes, we can't have that, can we?! ;-) Janey x I must go and exterminate all the cats in the shelter down the road before some humans decide to adopt them and over populate the place Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 thats why kitties should be kept inside..cuz they do wot they want would you let yer 3 yr old wander around unattended? " Janey " <janey wrote: >Message >I totally agree Angie. :-) But I can't work out how Peter thinks a cat owner should take responsibility??? How on earth can you keep tabs on a cat all day? By law cats can go and do what they please. By law! > >Love, Janey >x >p.s. I keep my cats locked in at night because one was killed by a car at night, but apart from that they go and do as they please! :-) > > My cats have never killed birds (as far as I know ). And my cats decide when they want to go out . If they are out at night They can't bother you ? and there is less traffic and no birds so night seems best to me , But as I said the cat's choose , I would not wish to dictate to them what they should do . Not many people dictate to me ....except my employers ! . > > I see the cats poo in my garden , but I never see the poo . Don't be too crushed Lesley !!!! You are not talking rubbish > > Its a criminal offense to drop litter also but are the streets clean ? No ! > Cats are not considered by law to be the property of humans ,...the way a dog is , So a person could be fined if their dog pooed and they left it , not so with a cat > > Make sure peter you tell us all what is responsible cat ownership is because obviously we are all in the wrong . and we haven't been listening to you. > > I shall go and punish myself very severely because you are obviously right and the rest of us wrong ......Its not just that you are a cat hater is it ??? I'm a human hater and the plans I have for them .....I'll share them with you sometime > > > Angie > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 simple you abrogate yer responsibility when you let yer kitties out the cat flap door would you let a pit bull do the same? yer child? cats are cats..which means they get smashed by cars, catch birds, eat trash, get chased by dogs, get into fights with cats, get et by coyotes, drink anti-freeze, mate like lil bumpkins.. etc fraggle " Janey " <janey wrote: >MessageCats are cats! > >By law they can go wherever they please! > >You can't train a cat to bury its poo properly or not sniff around your car! > >Geez!!! How on earth are cat owners meant to take responsibility? I don't understand?! I let my cats out through the cat flap and then I go to work! I can't sit and watch them all day - nor would they want me around anyway! > >Janey - who is responsible and also the owner of 3 adorable cats! :-) > > >Not at all. What I hate is people who refuse to take responsibility for the probelms they cause. The cats are ignorant of the problems they cause - it would appear that many cat owners are simply ignorant. > > BB > Peter > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Janey There have been several emails from responsible cat owners who say they keep their cats indoors where they cannot be a nuisance to others, cannot eat birds, and cannot get run over. If they were indoors (in the warm, out of the rain, with water to drink and food to eat, and a soft bed to sleep on) then you wouldn't need to watch them all day, and you would save the lives of many small creatures. Jo Geez!!! How on earth are cat owners meant to take responsibility? I don't understand?! I let my cats out through the cat flap and then I go to work! I can't sit and watch them all day - nor would they want me around anyway! Janey - who is responsible and also the owner of 3 adorable cats! :-) Not at all. What I hate is people who refuse to take responsibility for the probelms they cause. The cats are ignorant of the problems they cause - it would appear that many cat owners are simply ignorant. BB Peter To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Angie I presume you took responsibility for your sons behaviour. You gave birth to him (or adopted him) and took responsibility for him. The same should apply if you adopt a cat. Humans do not live totally natural lives - we do not live in cold caves and freeze to death in winter, so why should we expect to give the excuse that a cat should live a totally natural life - eating tinned cooked meat (they don't do that in the wild you know), and sleeping indoors is not a natural life. When you change nature you have to take some responsibility for the changes you have effected. Jo > > Yes I quite agree that cats should be kept indoors . I would extend that > > to all animals . > > I try to keep my son in as well ,. he can't come to harm in the house > > and he has 3/4 rooms to move around in . He can't mix with other kids > > but they carry diseases anyway . Some might say I'm keeping him a > > prisoner but I know best because .... I just do . I know what is best > > for him and my animals and I won't have anyone saying differently . You > > can all come and live with me too , and I'll keep you in safe from the > > world, and never let you out .....so you'll be safe > > ...Mother knows best > > > > Psycho > > > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 It's strange you put such store by the law. The law says it is okay to rear, kill and eat animals and that vivisection is alright. Until a year or two ago the law also said it was alright for a man to rape his wife - he was beyond the law. Ah well - the law must be right, mustn't it? Jo I totally agree Angie. :-) But I can't work out how Peter thinks a cat owner should take responsibility??? How on earth can you keep tabs on a cat all day? By law cats can go and do what they please. By law! Love, Janey x p.s. I keep my cats locked in at night because one was killed by a car at night, but apart from that they go and do as they please! :-) My cats have never killed birds (as far as I know ). And my cats decide when they want to go out . If they are out at night They can't bother you ? and there is less traffic and no birds so night seems best to me , But as I said the cat's choose , I would not wish to dictate to them what they should do . Not many people dictate to me ....except my employers ! . I see the cats poo in my garden , but I never see the poo . Don't be too crushed Lesley !!!! You are not talking rubbish Its a criminal offense to drop litter also but are the streets clean ? No ! Cats are not considered by law to be the property of humans ,...the way a dog is , So a person could be fined if their dog pooed and they left it , not so with a cat Make sure peter you tell us all what is responsible cat ownership is because obviously we are all in the wrong . and we haven't been listening to you. I shall go and punish myself very severely because you are obviously right and the rest of us wrong ......Its not just that you are a cat hater is it ??? I'm a human hater and the plans I have for them .....I'll share them with you sometime To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Keeping cats looked indoors (in my opinion) is cruel. I've never agreed with it and never will. Cats need fresh air and their freedom. Just like the rest of us! My cats always ask to go out. When they come back in they are happy and refreshed. I would never deprive them of their freedom. Who am I to take that away from them?! Janey x Janey There have been several emails from responsible cat owners who say they keep their cats indoors where they cannot be a nuisance to others, cannot eat birds, and cannot get run over. If they were indoors (in the warm, out of the rain, with water to drink and food to eat, and a soft bed to sleep on) then you wouldn't need to watch them all day, and you would save the lives of many small creatures. Jo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Well, I do work in the legal profession, so I do tend to think of the law a lot! However Jo, you simply can't compare cats to humans (ie. men raping women, or sending animals off to be slaughtered). Cats don't speak the English language and understand right from wrong. Its ludicrous to think that way and completely unjust. But it is a fact (like it or not) that cats by law can go wherever they like. I never thought I would have to justify cats to vegans but I was wrong. I have given (and always have given) my cats a loving home with food, love and warmth. I will continue to look after cats throughout my life. I consider myself a pet loving vegan. Janey x It's strange you put such store by the law. The law says it is okay to rear, kill and eat animals and that vivisection is alright. Until a year or two ago the law also said it was alright for a man to rape his wife - he was beyond the law. Ah well - the law must be right, mustn't it? Jo I totally agree Angie. :-) But I can't work out how Peter thinks a cat owner should take responsibility??? How on earth can you keep tabs on a cat all day? By law cats can go and do what they please. By law! Love, Janey x p.s. I keep my cats locked in at night because one was killed by a car at night, but apart from that they go and do as they please! :-) My cats have never killed birds (as far as I know ). And my cats decide when they want to go out . If they are out at night They can't bother you ? and there is less traffic and no birds so night seems best to me , But as I said the cat's choose , I would not wish to dictate to them what they should do . Not many people dictate to me ....except my employers ! . I see the cats poo in my garden , but I never see the poo . Don't be too crushed Lesley !!!! You are not talking rubbish Its a criminal offense to drop litter also but are the streets clean ? No ! Cats are not considered by law to be the property of humans ,...the way a dog is , So a person could be fined if their dog pooed and they left it , not so with a cat Make sure peter you tell us all what is responsible cat ownership is because obviously we are all in the wrong . and we haven't been listening to you. I shall go and punish myself very severely because you are obviously right and the rest of us wrong ......Its not just that you are a cat hater is it ??? I'm a human hater and the plans I have for them .....I'll share them with you sometime To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 you are there " parent " cats need to be taken care of..you are responsible fer them...you are responsible fer them and wot they do...it may seem bad, but it certainly isd a lot better then having them get hit by cars, isn't it?? take em fer walks, build them runs, wotever... my cat goes outside..when i'm outside to watch him..he generally sits in the sun..and is probably tooo old to car about birds much, not to mention he has grown up with chickens, geese, quail and other birds and knows better then stalk lil critters..the time the ferret jumped on him was very funny you brought the kitties into yer life..it is yer responsibilty that they have healthy lives and don't make a livin hell fer other critters in yer area, dontcha think? fraggle " Janey " <janey wrote: >Message >Keeping cats looked indoors (in my opinion) is cruel. I've never agreed with it and never will. > >Cats need fresh air and their freedom. Just like the rest of us! > >My cats always ask to go out. When they come back in they are happy and refreshed. I would never deprive them of their freedom. Who am I to take that away from them?! > >Janey >x > > > Janey > > There have been several emails from responsible cat owners who say they keep their cats indoors where they cannot be a nuisance to others, cannot eat birds, and cannot get run over. If they were indoors (in the warm, out of the rain, with water to drink and food to eat, and a soft bed to sleep on) then you wouldn't need to watch them all day, and you would save the lives of many small creatures. > > Jo > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 this is getting out of control hahahaha " Janey " <janey wrote: >MessageWell, I do work in the legal profession, so I do tend to think of the law a lot! > >However Jo, you simply can't compare cats to humans (ie. men raping women, or sending animals off to be slaughtered). Cats don't speak the English language and understand right from wrong. Its ludicrous to think that way and completely unjust. > >But it is a fact (like it or not) that cats by law can go wherever they like. I never thought I would have to justify cats to vegans but I was wrong. > >I have given (and always have given) my cats a loving home with food, love and warmth. I will continue to look after cats throughout my life. I consider myself a pet loving vegan. > >Janey >x > > > > It's strange you put such store by the law. The law says it is okay to rear, kill and eat animals and that vivisection is alright. Until a year or two ago the law also said it was alright for a man to rape his wife - he was beyond the law. Ah well - the law must be right, mustn't it? > > Jo > > > I totally agree Angie. :-) But I can't work out how Peter thinks a cat owner should take responsibility??? How on earth can you keep tabs on a cat all day? By law cats can go and do what they please. By law! > > Love, Janey > x > p.s. I keep my cats locked in at night because one was killed by a car at night, but apart from that they go and do as they please! :-) > > My cats have never killed birds (as far as I know ). And my cats decide when they want to go out . If they are out at night They can't bother you ? and there is less traffic and no birds so night seems best to me , But as I said the cat's choose , I would not wish to dictate to them what they should do . Not many people dictate to me ....except my employers ! . > > I see the cats poo in my garden , but I never see the poo . Don't be too crushed Lesley !!!! You are not talking rubbish > > Its a criminal offense to drop litter also but are the streets clean ? No ! > Cats are not considered by law to be the property of humans ,...the way a dog is , So a person could be fined if their dog pooed and they left it , not so with a cat > > Make sure peter you tell us all what is responsible cat ownership is because obviously we are all in the wrong . and we haven't been listening to you. > > I shall go and punish myself very severely because you are obviously right and the rest of us wrong ......Its not just that you are a cat hater is it ??? I'm a human hater and the plans I have for them .....I'll share them with you sometime > > > Angie > > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Sorry, but I don't buy that weak argument. Cats aren't 3 year old toddlers but independent, intelligent creatures. This is getting silly. Janey *sigh* fraggle wrote:- > thats why kitties should be kept inside..cuz they do wot they want > would you let yer 3 yr old wander around unattended? > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 yer right..this is getting silly cats are murderous beasts just like humans, er lions er weasels..ones that we just happen to breed and give warm homes and let wander they are killers..why, cuz its their nature..they are also loving, sweet caring critters...but..that doesn't matter... truce janey..truce... we don't see eye to eye on this and i can see this escalating.. i have no wish to argue and i certainly see no reason fer name callin to start.... fraggle " Janey " <janey wrote: >Sorry, but I don't buy that weak argument. > >Cats aren't 3 year old toddlers but independent, intelligent creatures. >This is getting silly. > >Janey >*sigh* > > >fraggle wrote:- >> thats why kitties should be kept inside..cuz they do wot they want >> would you let yer 3 yr old wander around unattended? >> > > > > > >To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Hey, I love cats - can't you tell?! LOL! ;-) Heehee, yes truce Fraggle! :-) Janey x - <EBbrewpunx Friday, July 12, 2002 9:17 PM Re: Cats!!! > > this is getting out of control > hahahaha > > > " Janey " <janey wrote: > > >MessageWell, I do work in the legal profession, so I do tend to think of the law a lot! > > > >However Jo, you simply can't compare cats to humans (ie. men raping women, or sending animals off to be slaughtered). Cats don't speak the English language and understand right from wrong. Its ludicrous to think that way and completely unjust. > > > >But it is a fact (like it or not) that cats by law can go wherever they like. I never thought I would have to justify cats to vegans but I was wrong. > > > >I have given (and always have given) my cats a loving home with food, love and warmth. I will continue to look after cats throughout my life. I consider myself a pet loving vegan. > > > >Janey > >x > > > > > > > > It's strange you put such store by the law. The law says it is okay to rear, kill and eat animals and that vivisection is alright. Until a year or two ago the law also said it was alright for a man to rape his wife - he was beyond the law. Ah well - the law must be right, mustn't it? > > > > Jo > > > > > > I totally agree Angie. :-) But I can't work out how Peter thinks a cat owner should take responsibility??? How on earth can you keep tabs on a cat all day? By law cats can go and do what they please. By law! > > > > Love, Janey > > x > > p.s. I keep my cats locked in at night because one was killed by a car at night, but apart from that they go and do as they please! :-) > > > > My cats have never killed birds (as far as I know ). And my cats decide when they want to go out . If they are out at night They can't bother you ? and there is less traffic and no birds so night seems best to me , But as I said the cat's choose , I would not wish to dictate to them what they should do . Not many people dictate to me ....except my employers ! . > > > > I see the cats poo in my garden , but I never see the poo . Don't be too crushed Lesley !!!! You are not talking rubbish > > > > Its a criminal offense to drop litter also but are the streets clean ? No ! > > Cats are not considered by law to be the property of humans ,...the way a dog is , So a person could be fined if their dog pooed and they left it , not so with a cat > > > > Make sure peter you tell us all what is responsible cat ownership is because obviously we are all in the wrong . and we haven't been listening to you. > > > > I shall go and punish myself very severely because you are obviously right and the rest of us wrong ......Its not just that you are a cat hater is it ??? I'm a human hater and the plans I have for them .....I'll share them with you sometime > > > > > > Angie > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Hi Janey > Geez!!! How on earth are cat owners meant to take responsibility? Y'see - another one not willing to take responsibility. You make a decision to look after cat - you therefore have a moral responsibility to those around you to make sure it is not a nuisance. Very simple. If you don't see how you can take that responsibility, you should not get the cats in the first place. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Janey > I totally agree Angie. :-) But I can't work out how Peter thinks a cat owner should take responsibility??? How on earth can you > keep tabs on a cat all day? By law cats can go and do what they please. By law! Sod the law. I'm talking about morality and basic etiquette. How would it be if someone went and brought an elephant, it trampled over your property and then they said "well, by law elephants can't be controlled so bad luck?" This is exactly the sort of attitude that enhances my view that cat owners should have to be licensed. Anyone with this attitude would not be granted a license. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 > It's strange you put such store by the law. The law says it is okay to rear, kill and eat animals and that vivisection is alright. > Until a year or two ago the law also said it was alright for a man to rape his wife - he was beyond the law. Ah well - the law must > be right, mustn't it? Of course, according to the law, it is still OK to kill Welshmen in certain parts of Shropshire (except on Sundays). According to the letter of the law, it is illegal to gather in groups of more than three without police permission. It is legal to urinate on the rear wheel of your car provided you are touching the roof of your car with your right hand. And it is illegal to commune with trees. I hope that anyone who is keen to quote the law will remember to take advantage of these. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Janey > My cats always ask to go out. When they come back in they are happy and refreshed. I would never deprive them of their > freedom. Who am I to take that away from them?! So, you wouldn't take away freedom from a cat, but you do take away freedom from humans - i.e. the freedom to live without their neighbours being a nuisance. And, of course, the freedom of the birds, voles, bats etc. to live. As you say - who are you to take away these freedoms? BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Janey > However Jo, you simply can't compare cats to humans (ie. men raping women, or sending animals off to be slaughtered). Cats > don't speak the English language and understand right from wrong. Which is precisely why their owners should have to take responsibility for them. > But it is a fact (like it or not) that cats by law can go wherever they like. I never thought I would have to justify cats to vegans but > I was wrong. It isn't cats that you have to justify - it is the irresponsible cat owners. > I have given (and always have given) my cats a loving home with food, love and warmth. I will continue to look after cats > throughout my life. I consider myself a pet loving vegan. But obviously not someone who has any concern for wild birds or your neighbours. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Thank heavens for some sense from someone not biased against cats . Cats are part of the world and just like birds should have freedom . Enough animals are imprisoned by humans as it is Janey [janey] !!! Cats are cats! By law they can go wherever they please! You can't train a cat to bury its poo properly or not sniff around your car! Geez!!! How on earth are cat owners meant to take responsibility? I don't understand?! I let my cats out through the cat flap and then I go to work! I can't sit and watch them all day - nor would they want me around anyway! Janey - --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Mine are free agents too and usually choose to come in at night but not always on hot summer night . better a short free life than a long one of boredom and imprisonment . I have the same attitude to my Downs son . If he wants to go to the all night shop after dark , he goes . the social services expect me to lock him in !!!! Suppose we had a fire and he couldn't unlock the door !!!! . Freedom is valuable ' I only wish I didn't have to imprison the rats Janey [janey] I totally agree Angie. :-) But I can't work out how Peter thinks a cat owner should take responsibility??? How on earth can you keep tabs on a cat all day? By law cats can go and do what they please. By law! Love, Janey x p.s. I keep my cats locked in at night because one was killed by a car at night, but apart from that they go and do as they please! :-) --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Adults should have the freedom to wander outside A cat is an adult and unless brain damaged or physically handicapped should be able to fend for itself ....unless you live next to a major road of course . What is a kittie ? EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] 12 July 2002 19:43 Subject: RE: Cats!!!thats why kitties should be kept inside..cuz they do wot they wantwould you let yer 3 yr old wander around unattended? --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Its not an *attitude* Peter, its common sense. You can't change cats. Just accept it. You're a vegan, so you must love animals. See the good in them - maybe give them a cuddle or a stroke under their chin! :-) You know, my cats must be ideal. They poo in *our* garden and are too lazy to kill birds and vermin. Maybe you would like to be my neighbour as you might actually end up liking cats. Mine are little dears! Janey x This is exactly the sort of attitude that enhances my view that cat owners should have to be licensed. Anyone with this attitude would not be granted a license. BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 No, I believe in giving a cat a loving home and its freedom. I am therefore a very responsible owner. So you see, I am the perfect owner. My cats love me. And I love them! :-) Janey x Y'see - another one not willing to take responsibility. You make a decision to look after cat - you therefore have a moral responsibility to those around you to make sure it is not a nuisance. Very simple. If you don't see how you can take that responsibility, you should not get the cats in the first place. BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Blimey, you really have it in for cats, don't you! Like I said, I never thought I would be defending cats on a vegan list! :-) I'm sorry they upset you so much. They bring me enormous pleasure, but you can't win 'em all! Janey x Of course, according to the law, it is still OK to kill Welshmen in certain parts of Shropshire (except on Sundays). According to the letter of the law, it is illegal to gather in groups of more than three without police permission. It is legal to urinate on the rear wheel of your car provided you are touching the roof of your car with your right hand. And it is illegal to commune with trees. I hope that anyone who is keen to quote the law will remember to take advantage of these. BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 kittie=kitty=cat and..i'm done fer a bit..you kids take this fer awhile i've said my piece... i'll happily natter on about something else... fraggle " Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote: >Adults should have the freedom to wander outside A cat is an adult and >unless brain damaged or physically handicapped should be able to fend >for itself ....unless you live next to a major road of course . What is >a kittie ? > >Angie > > >EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] >12 July 2002 19:43 > >RE: Cats!!! > > >thats why kitties should be kept inside..cuz they do wot they want >would you let yer 3 yr old wander around unattended? > > > > > > >--- > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002 > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
