Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Angie I find it helpful. It makes you feel better, and seems to stop the cold developing if you take it in the early stages - up to three cups a day. People at work scoffed when I told them, but gradually tried it - and now they all take it when they feel a cold coming on. It is reportly slightly anti-viral. Jo > Is elderflower good for colds ? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Angie > I had natural immunity to tb Caught it from my frequently vaccinated > friend who was obviously a carrier we used to sleep in the same room at each > others house Angie Maybe that's why I didn't have my vaccination. My neightbour (the dad) had tb, poor chap. He had one lung removed, and was very short of breath. Maybe I had immunity because of that. Jo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Angie > They'll fiddle the results --I think many scientists do that to get the > response that the pharmaceutical companies want Thats why sometimes they > prove the opposite to previous results > I would never trust vivisectionists in the same way that i wouldn't feel > safe with a rapist -- Both lack moral fibre and their word would not be > their bond !!! I agree totally. > Vegans on the other hand I would assume to be basically honest Is this > last statement true ? I would hope so. Jo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Angie > Vivisection delayed the modern accepted view that smoking Kills > The smoking companies got the evidence that they wanted that it was safe by > deliberately looking at the wrong species !! > May they rot in hell for killing 1,000's of animals in order to lie to human > beings who were gullible enough to believe the bastards!!! Yes, I had forgotten about that! I think that pharmaceutical companies cannot be trusted at all. The only thing that matters to them is profit. > My Dad sufferred in the last 6th months of his life from damaged lungs due > to smoking and heart problems( smoking related). I just hope that those > responsible suffer similarly . Then maybe they will consider what they have > spent their lives doing. I'm sorry to hear about your dad. When my kids were younger, I did all sorts of odd jobs that fitted in with school times, one of them being cleaning at a local Retirement complex for ~rich~ oldies. One chap I cleaned for was a retired director of BAT! Jo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Angie Do you know what caused your asthma? Colin (my husband) gets asthma once a year, which lasts from a few days to a couple of weeks. He must be allergic to one particular pollen, I think. He does use a ventolin inhaler only as long as necessary, but not the steroid one which they said he should take, just in case! Peter used to get infrequent attacks of asthma when a child, but doesn't get them now. Jo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Angie > If I'd taken the Ibruprofen how would I know whether I was better sooner or > not cos I wouldn't have known the results of not taking it ! The way I did > it I got better anyway (not life threatening) and saved myself £5 and felt > that I wasn't putting a strain on my liver Angie I agree with you about looking after your liver. Before I saw the naturopathic nutritionist, I suffered with lots of indigestion and occasional gall bladder inflammation, no matter how carefully I ate. Luckily, I now know what is not good for my liver (different to other people). I have not consumed alcahol for at least twenty years, so that was not a factor. I did have a spell when I was about thirty when I took quite a lot of paracetamol for a tooth abcess, and I have always wondered whether that damaged my liver. Anyway, thankfully, now I don't get any problems, and feel so much better than I have for years. My GP never gave me any advice that helped. Jo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Fraggle yer missing my point in this conventional western medicine see's symptoms, you have sneezing, ok, why are you sneezing..that's fine..but, they also tend to see things as a chemical fix. There is not a big push for life style change or true root causes, no prevention. Western medicine is all about curing the symptoms, not the disease. You think you might get breast cancer, well, then, examine yerself and get a mammogram..little is pushed about changing ones diet, not surrounding ones self with the myriad of chemicals we surround ourselves with every second now, don't get me wrong, we live in a chemical society, i wouldn't be on this damn pooter if it wasn't fer the miracle of plastic...but, and a big but, we hardly ever look at the ramifications of this wondrous chemical age we live in. And if something is bothering you, be it physical or mental, here, take a pill. thats wot i meant by root causes Yes - this is such a big problem. You have to work hard to get all the information you need to try to improve your health. The governments do not spend enough money on promoting the right lifestyles - presumably because it would hurt the profits of some big companies. Jo ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 What diet are you talking about JO Iseem to have missed It I get lots of colds and want to minimise the problem Any advice ? Angie - " Jo " <Heartwork Saturday, November 17, 2001 1:34 PM Re: Re: vegan nurse replies > Ian > > > > > > > I don't think this is necessarily a dangerous viewpoint. > > > >> > Diet can help keep you fit anyway. The mucus idea sounds pretty silly. > > Mucus is secreted by the epidermal regions - it has no business living > > intracellularly. > > So how do you suggest the success of the regime comes about? > > > > > While following that diet I have not had a cold, or any > > > other illness. When I had a few small lapses I cought a cold. I am > back on > > > the diet now! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Money is made by people taking medicines especially if they get other problems No money is going to be made from lemons -at least not by the drug companies - " Jo " <Heartwork Saturday, November 17, 2001 1:46 PM Re: Re: vegan nurse replies > Ian > > > Two answers. Firstly, one way of making sure is having independant > > groups reproduce each others work in different populations. Secondly, > > there are usually differences between the precise studies that help > > throw up exactly what is happening. > > I often feel that they don't study enough differences when doing research. > > > I remember hearing that it was meant to be good for people with chest > > problems. > > > > By the early 1950s, people were noticing that cancer wards filled up > > with smokers. Studies confirmed the link, but I can't remember exactly > > what they were. > > Did lung cancer occur within thirty years of tobacco being introduced to the > population? or was there an 'epidemic' starting int eh 1950s? > > > Why should it be easier to get the right dose of a herbal remedy, which > > you don't know how much of the active ingredient is in each pill? > > With the herbs that are in common use, usually the herb is in it's total > state - not as in established medicine, where only parts of the herb are > used, and then in larger quantities than would have been in the herb. > > > Yes. Conventional medicine money *is* spent on exactly those things. You > > can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. > > In that case, why isn't some of the money spent on informing people that, > say, elderflower and lemon tea, is a good cold remedy, and a great deal > safer than something like Lemsip. After all, how many people take Lemsip > and paracetamol at the same time. > > > That's changing. Researchers are methodologically looking at traditional > > remedies and trying to work out what there is to them. Which is good . > > It is good, but it doesn't change the fact that some people already know > what there is to them. > > > For " normal " complaints you're probably not doing yourself much harm. > > Far less harm than taking paracetamol, aspirin, ibuprofen. Even a simple > antacid can stop you absorbing the vitamins and minerals in your diet for up > to two hours - how many people take those? > > > > Do you think there are any good alternative medicines/treatments? - do > you > > > use any? > > > > There are bound to be. I sometimes take Valerian for nerves, or tea to > > help my asthma, settle my stomach, or analgese a mouth ulcer. My GF, who > > broadly agrees with you, swears by Echinacea for her throat, and honey > > to make small injuries heal quickly without a scar. > > I find valerian a bit strong for me, but use chamomile, if necessary. > > Do you know if you maple syrup has some/or all of the healing properties of > honey? > > Jo > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Good point Jo Angie - " Jo " <Heartwork Saturday, November 17, 2001 1:20 PM Re: Re: vegan nurse replies > Are you suggesting that we should take the word of the medical establishment > without questioning it, and if that is the case, why don't we take the word > of the Government without questioning it, and drink plenty of cow's milk > because they tell us it is good for us? > > Jo > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 > > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Leeches are good at cleaning wounds They remove the infection and decaying material and leave a slean wound which heals faster without the need for so many creams/chemicals. They are trying them again for gangrene/leg ulcers stuff like that Angie - " Jo " <Heartwork Saturday, November 17, 2001 1:58 PM Re: Re: vegan nurse replies > Ian > > > We finally have some data, so we know that you can't make someone better > > by bleeding them. > > I would be surprised if using leeches does help - but why are some hospitals > using them now? > > > If there is, it is no credit to the people who promote them without real > > evidence they work. > > This is just another way of saying that people should conform to the way you > see the world. (which is something we all tend to do, so it's not an > insult). > > > > > Can you substantiate this? > > > > > > I personally cannot remember where I read this, but can you disprove it? > > > > I've forgotten what this is about! > > LOL - me too :-) > > > Oh yes. Mostly. But it's also possible that their Doctor/wise > > woman/health practitioner told them to get some nice fresh morning air > > however little they felt like it. > > Maybe they advised both. When I was almost two I had pneumonia, after > whooping cough, and was in hospital for five weeks. I can remember the > bedrest, and also sitting in bed, wrapped up in blankets, by the wide open > window watching a robin playing in the snow. Maybe this was traditional > wisdom, still used. Incidentally, I always found that if I had a cough, it > was far less likely to annoy me if the air was cold. > > > I agree with those laws, as you can guess, and would support classing > > herbal remedies that are sold as medicines as medicines, instead of food > > supplements. > > This would take away a person's right to treat themselves with their > preferred remedies. I do not know the figures, but I am sure that more > people die through using prescribed medicines than through using food > supplements and herbal remedies. Don't forget that if a law is passed > making it impossible to use these remedies it just means more animal > testing, and more profit for the large pharmacuetical comanies. It would > not be an improvement for the population, IMO. > > > Absolutely. And wines. > > Definitely, even though I do not drink them. > > Jo > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 How do you buy it Is it a Tea ???? Angie - " Jo " <Heartwork Saturday, November 17, 2001 4:57 PM Re: Re: vegan nurse replies > Angie > > I find it helpful. It makes you feel better, and seems to stop the cold > developing if you take it in the early stages - up to three cups a day. > People at work scoffed when I told them, but gradually tried it - and now > they all take it when they feel a cold coming on. It is reportly slightly > anti-viral. > > Jo > > > > Is elderflower good for colds ? > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Sudden strenuous exercise- breathing deeply!- (jiving--loved it in my youth--after years of doing no exercise) in a very smoky room. Started wheezing and went outside where after 20 min I managed to get back to a normal breathing state I returned to the dance room and without dancing it started again After getting back to normal again I left and never went back I love dancing and need exercise that I will enjoy doing but not where there is smoke ! On the rare occasion that I run (bus?) I find that I wheeze Angie - " Jo " <Heartwork Saturday, November 17, 2001 5:05 PM Re: Re: vegan nurse replies > Angie > > Do you know what caused your asthma? > > Colin (my husband) gets asthma once a year, which lasts from a few days to a > couple of weeks. He must be allergic to one particular pollen, I think. He > does use a ventolin inhaler only as long as necessary, but not the steroid > one which they said he should take, just in case! > > Peter used to get infrequent attacks of asthma when a child, but doesn't get > them now. > > Jo > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 I haven't mentioned it to my Doctor He'll only prescribe an inhaler !! - " Jo " <Heartwork Saturday, November 17, 2001 5:05 PM Re: Re: vegan nurse replies > Angie > > Do you know what caused your asthma? > > Colin (my husband) gets asthma once a year, which lasts from a few days to a > couple of weeks. He must be allergic to one particular pollen, I think. He > does use a ventolin inhaler only as long as necessary, but not the steroid > one which they said he should take, just in case! > > Peter used to get infrequent attacks of asthma when a child, but doesn't get > them now. > > Jo > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Jo wrote: > > > True. Of course, you don't actually know whether you recovered because > > of the remedy or despite it, unless you've tried to get better in a few > > times, some with and some without the remedy, and managed to keep other > > stuff constant, and controlled for the placebo effect. > > But what makes you think that this sort of basic research is limited to > 'established' medicine. What do you think the alternative healers do? Honestly? I think they learn something, possibly from Culpepper's herbal or a chinese acupuncture manual, and take it for granted. > > Yes ... but life is too short to replicate all the epidemiological work, > > case studies, and theories about how it all works. > > But the effects of various herbs have been noted over hundreds of years, and > many generations. But usually in an anecdotal way, not a systematic one. > > IMHO, you can be more > > confident of someone's claim if they have to say exactly how they > > arrived at the results, get experts in the field to check their > > workings, and publish it so that other people can repeat the work and > > see if they arrive at the same results. You can be much more confident > > if the other people *do* reproduce it. > > To a certain extent, but it doesn't need to be researched constantly by > different universities and medical research bodies using up money that could > be spent educating people on how to stay healthy instead. Money is spent on health education anyway. It's pretty trivial for anyone who want to do so to find out about food groups, not being overweight, excercising regularly, not smoking, and having five servings of fruit and veg a day. > Also, as I have > said before, alternative medicines have been used and their effects noted > over many generations. Why is this research different to what you describe? Because it's anecdotal, does not use a placebo, et cetera. > We all know how medical research repeats animal experiments again and again > and again when they have already proved the effects on those animals. Alas . > Jo > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Jo wrote: > > Ian > > > I'm not prejudging that Angie would feel better a great deal quicker - > > for all I know, she might have asthma. But she seemed to be assuming > > that it would not help her, which is prejudice. > > Well, everyone has their opinion, which I suppose could be described as > prejudice. If not wanting to take a poisonous substance is a prejudice, > then I would support Angie's right to that prejudice. What's the difference between " poisonous " and " sometimes has some side-effects " ? > Are you suggesting that we should take the word of the medical establishment > without questioning it If it's really the medical establishment (and not a single bad GP, or a drug company, or a misreported piece of research), then I would tend to only spend time questioning if I had a reason to. > and if that is the case, why don't we take the word > of the Government without questioning it, and drink plenty of cow's milk > because they tell us it is good for us? When do they do that? I've seen lots of charts suggesting some dairy products, aimed at people who don't have ethical problems with that, but that's not the same as " plenty " . Anyway, the short answer is " because I'm a vegan, and have therefore spent time working out that there are alternatives. " > Jo > > --- -- Ian McDonald http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~type40/alternative.html http://travel.to/startrekcolony - Star Trek: Colony site & .mov http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~type40/who-rpg.html - Dr. Who RPGs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Jo wrote: > > Ian > > > > > > > I don't think this is necessarily a dangerous viewpoint. > > > > In which case I've got this dirty second-hand syringe for you ... > > I didn't say that I had attained a completely mucus-free body. The theory > can still be correct. Do you think that people should not offer good > advice, just because not many people are willing to follow it. Besides > which I don't think that anyone following a cleansing diet would be likely > to use any sort of syringe - that's for people who don't care what they do > to their bodies. I can't remember entirely what this was about ... but my contention, because of the sheer lack of evidence, is that the intracellular mucus theory is rubbish. It might be that the adviser got you onto a much healthier lifestyle anyway, and it might be that you were lucky. I don't know. > > > Obviously some > > > diseases are caused by pollution (tobacco, asbestos, coal dust, lead, > etc) > > > > Obviously - but she wasn't talking about " some " . > > Did she mention that she included asebstos, coal dust etc. or did she say > she was not - or did she not mention them, and you came to your own > conclusion. I meant that she wasn't talking about " some diseases " , but " all diseases " . I don't understand you point - you seem to be assuming that I mean she wasn't talking about the toxins you mention? Any way, she claimed that ALL diseases are caused by toxins, and NONE are caused by germs. > > Diet can help keep you fit anyway. The mucus idea sounds pretty silly. > > Mucus is secreted by the epidermal regions - it has no business living > > intracellularly. > > So how do you suggest the success of the regime comes about? I'd need to know more before speculating a mechanism. And, speaking as an out-of-practice biochemist, I wouldn't necessarily be right . > > > While following that diet I have not had a cold, or any > > > other illness. When I had a few small lapses I cought a cold. I am > back on > > > the diet now! > > What about the epideamiological studies to which you referred when talking > about established medicine? > > > > Correlation doesn't prove causation. > > > > > There have also been clinics where extreme cleansing diets > > > have been shown to help cancer patients. > > > > References? What does " help " mean? Sorry, but one needs to be wary of > > self-serving evidence. > > It has been reported that some patients who had been through all the > chemotherapy and not been cleared of cancer had their cancer clear when > adhering to cleansing diets. A cleansing diet, after all, just puts the > body in a good position to heal itself. I haven't heard the phrase " a cleansing diet " outside of alternative medicine - is it any different to " a really healthy diet " ? > > How? On the basis that even a stopped watch is right twice a day? > > But the fact that this woman is wrong is just a personal opinion. It is > entirely possible that she may well be proved correct in 20 or 50 years > time. > > Jo She things that ALL dieases is called by toxins and NONE by germs. The is NOT going to be proved correct in 50 years time. This is not my personal opinion, but that of any serious medic or bioscientist from the last hundred years. (BTW, her theories only really dated back to the 1950s - there was nothing traditional about them.) > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Jo wrote: > > > By the early 1950s, people were noticing that cancer wards filled up > > with smokers. Studies confirmed the link, but I can't remember exactly > > what they were. > > Did lung cancer occur within thirty years of tobacco being introduced to the > population? or was there an 'epidemic' starting int eh 1950s? ISTR Smoking became much more common in the 1920s and 1930s. I'd guess that cancer might not have emerged as a medical speciality earlier. > > Why should it be easier to get the right dose of a herbal remedy, which > > you don't know how much of the active ingredient is in each pill? > > With the herbs that are in common use, usually the herb is in it's total > state - not as in established medicine, where only parts of the herb are > used, and then in larger quantities than would have been in the herb. Yup. This is the central generalisation in which the herbal remedy supporters might have a point. They claim that keeping the active ingredient " in vivo " rather purified out causes fewer side effects. I kind think how that would be, but I can't rule it out. The opposite side claim that in purifying, you get rid of other stuff that might be bad, and you get to accurately calculate doses. > > Yes. Conventional medicine money *is* spent on exactly those things. You > > can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. > > In that case, why isn't some of the money spent on informing people that, > say, elderflower and lemon tea, is a good cold remedy, and a great deal > safer than something like Lemsip. After all, how many people take Lemsip > and paracetamol at the same time. Far too many - but the box does say you shouldn't I think. I only found out recently that asthmatics shouldn't take decongestants. But if I was using a herbal decongestant, I might not have found that out. > > For " normal " complaints you're probably not doing yourself much harm. > > Far less harm than taking paracetamol, aspirin, ibuprofen. Even a simple > antacid can stop you absorbing the vitamins and minerals in your diet for up > to two hours - how many people take those? Generally speaking, if they're taking an antacid they aren't eating sensibly anyway! (If I'm wrong about this, I'm sure someone will tell me ... Am I?) > Do you know if you maple syrup has some/or all of the healing properties of > honey? > I've no idea. I'd sortof expect it to be - it would provide germs with the same lethal osmotic shock. > Jo > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Jo wrote: > > The vegan diet is not accepted as a particularly good thing by established > medicine (hence the warnings about going short on calcium/protein etc), and > it is difficult to meet a GP or Health Visitor who can give any advice about > it. Now most alternative practitioners know that a vegan diet is highly > likely to keep you healthy. But you *do* need to keep an eye on Calcium - and B12, especially B12, if you're a vegan. I don't expect mainstream health professionals to really know the details about how. I'd expect alternative practitioners to know more, because of the cultural coincidence. But my GF swears by herbal remedies, has been exposed to alternative health literature, and sticks to being veggie because she's worried about osteoperosis ... so alternative practitioners aren't being as pro-vegan as they could be. > > Jo > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 My doc told me not to go to a chiropractor when I had back trouble recently. So I don't think Its totally accepted - " Jo " <Heartwork Saturday, November 17, 2001 1:34 PM Re: Re: vegan nurse replies > Ian > > > > > I thought that chiropracters were part of conventional medicine? > > It may well be, but I don't think the Bowen therapy is though - it just > happens to be practiced by a chiroprator who is interested in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 But GPs despair of trying to get people to take decent care of themselves. (Or smoke and are obese themselves!) A GP friend of mine told of her frustration at trying to convince pregnant working class women in Newcastle to not smoke. Some of them said they would give up for the baby after it was born ... Plus, even if you take good care of yourself, you'll still fall ill and die eventually. It's not as if a bad lifestyle is at the root of *everything* that goes wrong with our bodies. -- Ian McDonald http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~type40/alternative.html http://travel.to/startrekcolony - Star Trek: Colony site & .mov http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~type40/who-rpg.html - Dr. Who RPGs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2001 Report Share Posted November 18, 2001 Ian > But usually in an anecdotal way, not a systematic one. But the effects, are the effects, whether noted in an anecdotal or systematic way. > Money is spent on health education anyway. It's pretty trivial for > anyone who want to do so to find out about food groups, not being > overweight, excercising regularly, not smoking, and having five servings > of fruit and veg a day. Well yes, I suppose basic knowledge, but not specific. You have to read quite a lot, and very often get advice from alternative practitioners (as in my case) before you get your diet balanced in exactly the correct way for you personally to be healthy. > > > Also, as I have > > said before, alternative medicines have been used and their effects noted > > over many generations. Why is this research different to what you describe? > > Because it's anecdotal, does not use a placebo, et cetera. Alternative remedies work on animals - placebo effect doesn't need to be tested on them. Jo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2001 Report Share Posted November 18, 2001 Ian > I can't remember entirely what this was about ... but my contention, > because of the sheer lack of evidence, is that the intracellular mucus > theory is rubbish. It might be that the adviser got you onto a much > healthier lifestyle anyway, and it might be that you were lucky. I don't > know. I was already on what most people would call a fairly healthy lifestyle - vegan diet, non-smoker, non-drinker, ensuring a brisk walk for half an hour each lunchtime - Tai Chi, meditation etc. > I meant that she wasn't talking about " some diseases " , but " all > diseases " . I don't understand you point - you seem to be assuming that I > mean she wasn't talking about the toxins you mention? I think that there are diseases caused by things beyond our own personal control - i.e. inhaling asbestos. Now if we inhale asbestos it doesn't matter how good a lifestyle we have, and how good a cleansing diet we have, we stand a one in four chance of getting lung cancer, and a bigger chance of getting asbestosis. I wouldn't expect any diet or alternative remedy to be able to cure or treat this - just as no established medicine or procedure can treat it. I would assume that the person was talking about diseases that are caused by what is basically our own stupidity, that could be avoided. > > Any way, she claimed that ALL diseases are caused by toxins, and NONE > are caused by germs. Asbestosis is not caused by germs - and I suppose you could say that asbestos is a toxin, but I still think that this is a misunderstanding, caused through scepticism. > I'd need to know more before speculating a mechanism. And, speaking as > an out-of-practice biochemist, I wouldn't necessarily be right . But do we need to know precisely what the mechanism is, if it works? > I haven't heard the phrase " a cleansing diet " outside of alternative > medicine - is it any different to " a really healthy diet " ? It involves taking specific vegetable juices etc to help cleanse the body. As I said previously I tried for years, reading up a lot from the normal sources, to have a healthy diet, but I still needed help from an alternative practitioner. There was no help to be had from the GP. > She things that ALL dieases is called by toxins and NONE by germs. The > is NOT going to be proved correct in 50 years time. This is not my > personal opinion, but that of any serious medic or bioscientist from the > last hundred years. I'm sure it is - but there is still room for you all to be proved wrong eventually, with the exceptions of asbestosis etc that I mentioned earlier. Jo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2001 Report Share Posted November 18, 2001 Ian > Far too many - but the box does say you shouldn't I think. I only found > out recently that asthmatics shouldn't take decongestants. But if I was > using a herbal decongestant, I might not have found that out. I personally would never take a decongestant from the chemist or doctor - they can cause more trouble than they are worth, and can increase your blood-pressure too, if I remember rightly. I cannot remember what herbal remedy is good for that, but I would imagine that there are some fairly innocuous ones that would work. Don't forget that herbal remedies are slow working - they don't hit you with a hammer. > Generally speaking, if they're taking an antacid they aren't eating > sensibly anyway! You would think - but that didn't apply to me. It took an alternative practitioner to sort out my problems of twenty years standing, and many visits to the GP who just said 'don't eat fat'. The fact was that I got heartburn from drinking water!!! On finding out that I couldn't eat normal oranges, and normal wheat, and not to eat peanuts or tomatoes very often - I have no more problems - never felt better. Jo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2001 Report Share Posted November 18, 2001 Ian > But you *do* need to keep an eye on Calcium - and B12, especially B12, > if you're a vegan. Yes I know that, but the advice available is negligible, as it is for any diet. Jo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release 09/10/01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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