Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

[Guest guest]

who did what with the what now? The Valley Vegan.........l.com> wrote: Oh come on Fraggle - accept the idolatry like a gentleman :-) BBJo - fraggle Monday, October 30, 2006 7:18 PM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime no..i prolly just know different things then you peter VV Oct 30, 2006 1:54 PM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime As usual ( puts down his leek and daffodil ), you talk a lot of sense and obviously know an awful lot more than me. As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances,

there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Peter H

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Nah they seem to be there all the time, my pop up blocker works fine........ The Valley Vegan............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: which adverts? are they pop ups, or just part of the page? if they are pop ups, you need a pop up blocker on your computer peter VV Oct 30, 2006 2:21 PM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime Then how the hell do I stop all those adverts on myspace? The Valley

Vegan...........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: no..i prolly just know different things then you peter VV Oct 30, 2006 1:54 PM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime As usual ( puts down his leek and daffodil ), you talk a lot of sense and obviously know an awful lot more than me. As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in

such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Peter H

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

myspace is loaded with ads

thats who they keep going

i just ignore them

if you are having issue s with download speed, i found an easy solution(back when i had dialup) is to scroll down as soon as you hit the page..then the ad is off your screen, and things should move faster

peter VV Oct 30, 2006 3:14 PM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

Nah they seem to be there all the time, my pop up blocker works fine........

 

The Valley Vegan............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

which adverts?

are they pop ups, or just part of the page?

if they are pop ups, you need a pop up blocker on your computer

 

peter VV Oct 30, 2006 2:21 PM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

Then how the hell do I stop all those adverts on myspace?

 

The Valley Vegan...........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

no..i prolly just know different things then you

peter VV Oct 30, 2006 1:54 PM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

As usual ( puts down his leek and daffodil ), you talk a lot of sense and obviously know an awful lot more than me. As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in

such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas

Peter H

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas

Peter H

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas

[Guest guest]

nah, got dsl just pissed off with them........... The Valley Vegan...........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: myspace is loaded with ads thats who they keep going i just ignore them if you are having issue s with download speed, i found an easy solution(back when i had dialup) is to scroll down as soon as you hit the page..then the ad is off your screen, and things should move faster peter VV Oct 30, 2006 3:14 PM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

Nah they seem to be there all the time, my pop up blocker works fine........ The Valley Vegan............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: which adverts? are they pop ups, or just part of the page? if they are pop ups, you need a pop up blocker on your computer peter VV Oct 30, 2006 2:21 PM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime Then how the hell do I stop all those adverts on myspace? The Valley Vegan...........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: no..i prolly just know different things then you peter VV Oct 30, 2006 1:54 PM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime As usual ( puts down his leek and daffodil ), you talk a lot of sense and obviously know an awful lot more than me. As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything

remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting

victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Peter H

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

I would imagine there's a variety of levels of integrity within off licences as there is across any sector of society. That doesn't change the fact that they have certain legal obligations, and have to at least *appear* to be abiding by those obligations, even if some of them actually don't.

 

 

BB

Peter

On 30/10/06, peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

 

 

Yessss, but I have seen an awful lot of underage kids being sold booze ( was one myself once ) I doubt whether they have the same integrity?

 

 

The Valley Vegan............Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

Off licenses have the same sort of responsibilities as chemists - they supply substances which are controlled by law, and for which they have a legal obligation to ensure are not sold to unsuitable people.

 

BB

Peter

On 29/10/06, peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

 

 

Nah, think I will pass on the offer of working in a shop for the time being.I didnt mention chemists or legal obligations, I mentioned offies.

I have been told that helmets and balaclavas hide the faces of potential robbers and as such they cannot be identified by either video or in person, and have seen signs in offies in certain rough parts of Birmingham.

 

The Valley Vegan.............

 

Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

There is a big difference between refusing to serve someone wearing a crash helmet, and making a law about people covering their faces.

 

Having worked in shops, I can think of a number of very good reasons why shops won't serve people in crash helmets: not least, because it's virtually impossible to hear what anyone is saying through them. Having worked in a chemist, I am also aware that some businesses are governed by laws which require them to assess whether or not the customer should be in a position to purchase the item they want (such as alcohol, medicine, etc.) and while it is easy to assess the basic mental condition of someone wearing a burka, the same is not true for crash helmets, as they make it very hard to see the eyes, and muffle the voice. I would not have served someone wearing a crash helmet when I worked in a chemists because it would have been a dereliction of my duties to ensur, to the best of my ability, that I was not selling a potentially dangerous substance to someone who would not have been in a position to use the substance wisely (for example, people who were drunk wanting to buy surgical spirit). I think perhaps you should try working in a place where staff are under that sort of legal obligation before making judgements about why such places have certain rules.

 

BB

Peter

On 29/10/06, peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

 

 

Sorry Peter but I think that is a bit naive, in some areas you walk into an off liscence / bank wearing a skid lid or a balaclava, and they assume the worse, and a lot of places will not serve people wearing them, some even have signs..

I take your point about integration, and personal freedom, it is a tricky area. I just think that in these troubled times, for the sake of security etc, they should not take offence at airports etc, when asked to remove the covering to check passports etc. My colleague in work was flying abroad and a lady wearing one created such a huge fuss that she was nearly banned from the flight until she agreed to take it off for a woman security guard.

 

The Valley Vegan.............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

I think people should be allowed to dress how they want to - I din't think it is up to anyone else to tell me how I should dress, so I don't see why I should tell others how they should dress. If someone wants to cover their face, for whatever reason, that is up to them.

 

When you talk of " integration " , are you suggesting that all of us should be wearing " traditional English costume " , or something? Perhaps men should always wear suits and ties? Perhaps women shouldn't be allowed to wear trousers? I dunno - just intrigued as to where you'd draw the line between " personal freedom " and " integration " ?

 

In terms of getting served in an off licence - that is because it is illegal to sell alcohol to people under 18, and there is no way of telling age when someone is wearing a crash helmet - so the shop keeper is simply protecting themselves. I've never seen anyone with a muslim face covering attempt to get served in an off licence, but it would certainly be suspicious if they did, since consuming and purchasing alcohol is against Islamic law, and therefore anyone Islamic enough to want to cover their face for religious reasons wouldn't be likely to be buying alcohol!!

BB

Peter

On 29/10/06, peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

 

 

I agree, I totally disagree with Muslim women being allowed to stay covered all the time. It isnt even a religious necessity, nothing in their Koran( is that their scriptures?), it is a more recent tradition I think?

You try getting served in an off liscence wearing a crash helmet, or a balaclava,( man or woman ) yet if you wear so called traditional dress with just your eyes showing you have no problem (although I suppose they dont drink alcohol? - I dont know, I`m ignorant in their ways )

Dont get me wrong, I`m not a racist, but I think that if you go to another country you should try and integrate with it ( out of respect ), not the other way around as politicians keep saying.

 

The Valley Vegan............. jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.... and so could covering your face on demonstrations unless you are a muslim woman. I reckon there will be a lot more muslim women on demos then, of both sexes :-)

 

Jo

 

Flag-burning could become crime

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By John Pienaar Chief political correspondent for BBC Radio Five Live

 

 

 

 

 

Cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad sparked global protests

Police chiefs are urging the government to make flag-burning a new criminal offence, as part of a drive to crack down on Islamic extremists and others preaching violence and religious hate, the BBC has learned.

The proposals also include action to ban demonstrators from covering their faces to avoid police scrutiny, and tougher powers to arrest demonstrators seeking to inflame tensions.

 

They have been drawn up by Scotland Yard, and submitted to the Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, by Britain's most senior muslim police chief, Assistant Commissioner Tarique Ghaffur.

He is responsible for public order in the capital as commander of central operations.

Mr Ghaffur told BBC Radio Five he was concerned Britain had come to be seen at home and abroad as soft on extremist demonstrators.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If they [the public] start to see images of people who seem to be 'getting away with it', that [the tolerance of people] starts to erode

 

Assistant Commissioner Tarique Ghaffur

 

 

" There appears to be a growing public perception that policing of demonstrations is unduly lenient, " he said.

" That view was shared by law-abiding citizens of all backgrounds.

" The reason this is a great country is the tolerance of people.

 

" If they start to see images of people who seem to be 'getting away with it', that starts to erode. "

He said police wanted " a change in the law on the burning of flags - to make that illegal " .

 

Other proposals included a police power, when approving demonstrations and marches, to attach conditions covering banners and making clear demonstrators should not cover their faces.

He emphasised that it did not include Muslim women wearing the veil.

The BBC's Weekend News programme has been told the Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, is preparing a package of announcements.

These are being discussed between ministers who will decide how far existing public order and anti-terror laws can be used more actively and consider police calls for changes in the law.

 

 

 

 

 

The covering of faces could also become illegal on protests

" Everything is on the table, " said a source close to the Attorney General.

 

" We are hoping to announce a national strategy for dealing with these people in November. "

Assistant Commissioner Ghaffur, who has been holding details talks with Lord Goldsmith, warned that senior officers would be ready to take a tougher line in dealing with flag-burners and extremists exploiting demonstrations, whether or not ministers decide on early changes in the law.

He caused controversy in August when he warned that new anti-terror laws and policing those laws could risk criminalising minority communities.

But he has now insisted the new proposals would command the support of law-abiding Muslims and others, since they are clearly aimed at extremists trying to stir up hatred and deepen divisions.

 

Mr Ghaffur made clear there was no intention to interfere with the right, for example, of Muslim women to wear the veil.

The target of police action should be those trying to conceal their identities to frustrate police intelligence gathering and law enforcement.

 

 

Peter H

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

 

 

Peter H

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

 

 

Peter H

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

 

 

Peter H

 

 

 

 

All New Mail � Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you.

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

>intolerant possibly, but racist?, I`m talking about hiding your identity from others in the name of tradition thats all. If it becomes acceptable, then everyone at demos and rallies will be doing it, where will it end?

 

 

And just what is wrong with hiding your identity from others? Isn't the right to anonimity something we should all have? Why should everyone be allowed to know exactly what everyone else is doing, and when and where they're doing it?

 

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Why do you feel the need to hide? sounds unhealthy to me , like running away, surely it would be more healthy just to say to the world, here I am warts and all, take it or leave it, but either way it doesnt bother me? The Valley Vegan...............Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter >intolerant possibly, but racist?, I`m talking about hiding your identity from others in the name of tradition thats all. If it becomes acceptable, then everyone at demos and rallies will be doing it, where will it end? And just what is wrong with hiding your identity from others? Isn't the right to anonimity something we should all have? Why should everyone be allowed to know exactly what everyone else is doing, and when and where

they're doing it? BB Peter Peter H

 

The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

[Guest guest]

have you removed yer implant chip again?!

Peter Kebbell Oct 31, 2006 4:35 AM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

Hi Peter

 

>intolerant possibly, but racist?, I`m talking about hiding your identity from others in the name of tradition thats all. If it becomes acceptable, then everyone at demos and rallies will be doing it, where will it end?

 

And just what is wrong with hiding your identity from others? Isn't the right to anonimity something we should all have? Why should everyone be allowed to know exactly what everyone else is doing, and when and where they're doing it?

 

BB

Peter

As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas

[Guest guest]

dear mistah peter.....

you've been to protests before, correct?

ever seen the cops videotape it?

ever hear of retribution?

ever hear of being "marked"?

peter VV Oct 31, 2006 7:42 AM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

Why do you feel the need to hide? sounds unhealthy to me , like running away, surely it would be more healthy just to say to the world, here I am warts and all, take it or leave it, but either way it doesnt bother me?

 

The Valley Vegan...............

As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas

[Guest guest]

protests are a very small part of most peoples lives, most of us are on cch somewhere anyway. I`m talking all the time ...smile for the camera big boy! most of us are on file somewhere, somehow for whatever reason you cant escape that, and dont let it rule your life, just accept it and move on. The Valley Vegan........... Happy World Vegan Day for tomorrow....fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: dear mistah peter..... you've been to protests before, correct? ever seen the cops videotape it? ever hear of retribution? ever hear of being "marked"? -----Original

Message----- peter VV Oct 31, 2006 7:42 AM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime Why do you feel the need to hide? sounds unhealthy to me , like running away, surely it would be more healthy just to say to the world, here I am warts and all, take it or leave it, but either way it doesnt bother me? The Valley Vegan............... As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Peter H

 

All New Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you.

[Guest guest]

but...why should i accept it?

why should anyone?

 

peter VV Oct 31, 2006 8:59 AM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

protests are a very small part of most peoples lives, most of us are on cch somewhere anyway. I`m talking all the time ...smile for the camera big boy!

most of us are on file somewhere, somehow for whatever reason you cant escape that, and dont let it rule your life, just accept it and move on.

 

The Valley Vegan...........

Happy World Vegan Day for tomorrow....fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

dear mistah peter.....

you've been to protests before, correct?

ever seen the cops videotape it?

ever hear of retribution?

ever hear of being "marked"?

peter VV Oct 31, 2006 7:42 AM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

Why do you feel the need to hide? sounds unhealthy to me , like running away, surely it would be more healthy just to say to the world, here I am warts and all, take it or leave it, but either way it doesnt bother me?

 

The Valley Vegan............... As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas

Peter H

 

 

 

All New Mail Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you.

As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas

[Guest guest]

What else you gonna do?, cry? complain, protest,wont do you much good - not saying you shouldnt have a go.......... The Valley Vegan........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: but...why should i accept it? why should anyone? peter VV Oct 31, 2006 8:59 AM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime protests are a very small part of most peoples lives, most of us are on cch somewhere anyway. I`m talking all the time ...smile for the camera big

boy! most of us are on file somewhere, somehow for whatever reason you cant escape that, and dont let it rule your life, just accept it and move on. The Valley Vegan........... Happy World Vegan Day for tomorrow....fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: dear mistah peter..... you've been to protests before, correct? ever seen the cops videotape it? ever hear of retribution? ever hear of being "marked"? peter VV Oct 31, 2006 7:42 AM Re: Flag

Burning Could Become A Crime Why do you feel the need to hide? sounds unhealthy to me , like running away, surely it would be more healthy just to say to the world, here I am warts and all, take it or leave it, but either way it doesnt bother me? The Valley Vegan............... As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Peter H All New Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting

victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Peter H

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

peter VV Oct 31, 2006 9:47 AM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

What else you gonna do?, cry? complain, protest,wont do you much good - not saying you shouldnt have a go..........

 

The Valley Vegan........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

but...why should i accept it?

why should anyone?

 

peter VV Oct 31, 2006 8:59 AM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

protests are a very small part of most peoples lives, most of us are on cch somewhere anyway. I`m talking all the time ...smile for the camera big boy!

most of us are on file somewhere, somehow for whatever reason you cant escape that, and dont let it rule your life, just accept it and move on.

 

The Valley Vegan...........

Happy World Vegan Day for tomorrow....fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

dear mistah peter.....

you've been to protests before, correct?

ever seen the cops videotape it?

ever hear of retribution?

ever hear of being "marked"?

peter VV Oct 31, 2006 7:42 AM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

Why do you feel the need to hide? sounds unhealthy to me , like running away, surely it would be more healthy just to say to the world, here I am warts and all, take it or leave it, but either way it doesnt bother me?

 

The Valley Vegan............... As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas

Peter H

 

 

 

All New Mail Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting

victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas

Peter H

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

I agree. It will be the first time in history that the whereabouts and doings of so many people are known. I don't see anything wrong with hiding your face on demonstrations - after all, the police hide their identification numbers from the demonstrators.

 

BBJo

 

-

Peter Kebbell

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 12:35 PM

Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

 

Hi Peter

 

>intolerant possibly, but racist?, I`m talking about hiding your identity from others in the name of tradition thats all. If it becomes acceptable, then everyone at demos and rallies will be doing it, where will it end?

 

And just what is wrong with hiding your identity from others? Isn't the right to anonimity something we should all have? Why should everyone be allowed to know exactly what everyone else is doing, and when and where they're doing it?

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Hi Fraggle/Peter

 

I don't seem to have received this line of emails!!!!

 

I don't think it should be accepted. I think people should protest about things if they want. When people get shirty about me demonstrating against war I tell them to go protest for it if that is what they want - but, as we all know, they can't be bothered to get off their backsides to do anything like that. Presumably that means that they are actually indifferent.

 

Jo

 

-

fraggle

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 6:15 PM

Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

 

 

peter VV Oct 31, 2006 9:47 AM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

What else you gonna do?, cry? complain, protest,wont do you much good - not saying you shouldnt have a go..........

 

The Valley Vegan........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

but...why should i accept it?

why should anyone?

 

peter VV Oct 31, 2006 8:59 AM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

protests are a very small part of most peoples lives, most of us are on cch somewhere anyway. I`m talking all the time ...smile for the camera big boy!

most of us are on file somewhere, somehow for whatever reason you cant escape that, and dont let it rule your life, just accept it and move on.

 

The Valley Vegan...........

Happy World Vegan Day for tomorrow....fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

dear mistah peter.....

you've been to protests before, correct?

ever seen the cops videotape it?

ever hear of retribution?

ever hear of being "marked"?

peter VV Oct 31, 2006 7:42 AM Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

Why do you feel the need to hide? sounds unhealthy to me , like running away, surely it would be more healthy just to say to the world, here I am warts and all, take it or leave it, but either way it doesnt bother me?

 

The Valley Vegan............... As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas

Peter H

 

 

 

All New Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting

victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas

Peter H

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas

[Guest guest]

Hi Fraggle

 

>have you removed yer implant chip again?!

 

Ssssshhhhhh - don't tell everyone!

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

>protests are a very small part of most peoples lives, most of us are on cch somewhere anyway. I`m talking all the time ...smile for the camera big boy

>most of us are on file somewhere, somehow for whatever reason you cant escape that, and dont let it rule your life, just accept it and move on.

 

But if the footage of you shows you doing grocery shopping and going home to watch the football, then you won't get " marked " as a target for persecution in the rapidly ensuing police state. If you're caught on film at a protest, you very likely will be.

 

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

>Why do you feel the need to hide? sounds unhealthy to me , like running away, surely it

>would be more healthy just to say to the world, here I am warts and all, take it or leave it

 

I think if you'd been on the G8 protests, you wouldn't need to ask that question. The police were hiding all evidence of their identities from protestors. They were refusing to give out the necessary paperwork after they'd searched people, and they were refusing to state under what laws they were searching people.

 

 

When you've experienced the police state, you get to realise that as a protestor, the healthiest thing to do is to not let them get any idea who you are. We're living in a country where it is now illegal to actually stand around with a placard, or to gather in large groups without police permission - so you can be arrested for doing something that causes no harm to anyone. That is why I feel it is vital that people have the right to hide their identities.

 

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

In an ideal world that would be correct, but it is not an ideal world. If it were there would be no need for protest. Unfortunately there are always people/groups willing to be nasty to other groups. I have not hidden my face yet, but it is intimidating to be filmed and photographed. If I wasa trouble maker I could understand it, but I am not, and see no reason for this.

 

Jo

 

-

peter VV

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:42 PM

Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

 

Why do you feel the need to hide? sounds unhealthy to me , like running away, surely it would be more healthy just to say to the world, here I am warts and all, take it or leave it, but either way it doesnt bother me?

 

The Valley Vegan...............Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

>intolerant possibly, but racist?, I`m talking about hiding your identity from others in the name of tradition thats all. If it becomes acceptable, then everyone at demos and rallies will be doing it, where will it end?

 

And just what is wrong with hiding your identity from others? Isn't the right to anonimity something we should all have? Why should everyone be allowed to know exactly what everyone else is doing, and when and where they're doing it?

 

BB

Peter

Peter H

 

 

 

The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

[Guest guest]

Well said! The last anit-war demonstration I went to the police had hidden their identity badges, and some of them were standing around with what looked like machine guns (I'm not an expert on firearms).

 

Jo

 

-

 

Peter Kebbell

Wednesday, November 01, 2006 4:03 PM

Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

 

Hi Peter

 

>Why do you feel the need to hide? sounds unhealthy to me , like running away, surely it

>would be more healthy just to say to the world, here I am warts and all, take it or leave it

 

I think if you'd been on the G8 protests, you wouldn't need to ask that question. The police were hiding all evidence of their identities from protestors. They were refusing to give out the necessary paperwork after they'd searched people, and they were refusing to state under what laws they were searching people.

 

When you've experienced the police state, you get to realise that as a protestor, the healthiest thing to do is to not let them get any idea who you are. We're living in a country where it is now illegal to actually stand around with a placard, or to gather in large groups without police permission - so you can be arrested for doing something that causes no harm to anyone. That is why I feel it is vital that people have the right to hide their identities.

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Hi Jo

 

I thought they were snipers - but what was even more worrying was that when we asked some of the un-armed police about it, they said they knew nothing about armed police being there... which really doesn't say a lot for police communications!

 

 

BB

Peter

On 01/11/06, jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

 

Well said! The last anit-war demonstration I went to the police had hidden their identity badges, and some of them were standing around with what looked like machine guns (I'm not an expert on firearms).

 

Jo

 

-

 

Peter Kebbell

 

 

 

Wednesday, November 01, 2006 4:03 PM

Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

 

 

Hi Peter

 

>Why do you feel the need to hide? sounds unhealthy to me , like running away, surely it

>would be more healthy just to say to the world, here I am warts and all, take it or leave it

 

I think if you'd been on the G8 protests, you wouldn't need to ask that question. The police were hiding all evidence of their identities from protestors. They were refusing to give out the necessary paperwork after they'd searched people, and they were refusing to state under what laws they were searching people.

 

When you've experienced the police state, you get to realise that as a protestor, the healthiest thing to do is to not let them get any idea who you are. We're living in a country where it is now illegal to actually stand around with a placard, or to gather in large groups without police permission - so you can be arrested for doing something that causes no harm to anyone. That is why I feel it is vital that people have the right to hide their identities.

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

You're right - that is scary! We tried to get a closer look at them but they just kept turning their backs on us, so we couldn't see properly.

 

Jo

 

-

Peter Kebbell

Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:29 PM

Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

 

Hi Jo

 

I thought they were snipers - but what was even more worrying was that when we asked some of the un-armed police about it, they said they knew nothing about armed police being there... which really doesn't say a lot for police communications!

 

BB

Peter

On 01/11/06, jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

Well said! The last anit-war demonstration I went to the police had hidden their identity badges, and some of them were standing around with what looked like machine guns (I'm not an expert on firearms).

 

Jo

 

-

 

Peter Kebbell

Wednesday, November 01, 2006 4:03 PM

Re: Flag Burning Could Become A Crime

 

 

Hi Peter

 

>Why do you feel the need to hide? sounds unhealthy to me , like running away, surely it

>would be more healthy just to say to the world, here I am warts and all, take it or leave it

 

I think if you'd been on the G8 protests, you wouldn't need to ask that question. The police were hiding all evidence of their identities from protestors. They were refusing to give out the necessary paperwork after they'd searched people, and they were refusing to state under what laws they were searching people.

 

When you've experienced the police state, you get to realise that as a protestor, the healthiest thing to do is to not let them get any idea who you are. We're living in a country where it is now illegal to actually stand around with a placard, or to gather in large groups without police permission - so you can be arrested for doing something that causes no harm to anyone. That is why I feel it is vital that people have the right to hide their identities.

 

BB

Peter