Navy Daze and Vegan Nights

[Guest guest]

Navy Daze and Vegan NightsJanine BandcroftPEJ NewsOctober 7, 2006 I stood in silent vigil, for an hour, looking at a helicopter and a lineup of people waiting to view it. Behind me were warships, nearby were military personnel showing off their equipment and expertise. A man's voice announced, over a megaphone, a welcome to the Women in Black who, he said, were there to protest Navy Days. It's not quite as simple as that, I thought, but having agreed to silence I kept my thoughts to myself as he further erroneously explained that our ability to be there has nothing to do with our own courage, but is all because of military excursions around the world. I disagreed, but sighed relief. They couldn't dare arrest us after such an endorsement of our right to freely express ourselves. We stood in our

line, brave women and men in black (some not so black) and quietly watched and listened as passers by looked questioningly at us. One man yelled 'shame,' a couple of people took leaflets, and about halfway through a military fellow offered us each a bottle of water which was silently refused. As if our presence, our silence, and our banner declaring our attempts at 'Creating A World Without Violence' weren't courageous enough, our vigil was completed when Art Farquharson liberated his guitar from its case and we sang a couple of peace songs. Outside the gates, across the parking lot, the Raging Grannies were noisily and busily gathered around Alison's car which had been redesigned as a tank. Some were organizing the petition table, others stood with a banner (Don't Be A War Toy, Join The Peace Workers) near the Navy Days entrance. Again, we were greeted in a variety of ways, with one young man determined to move the car away from

the entrance where it wouldn't be so clearly seen. Again we were offered bottled water, but this time we could express our discontent - thanking the young lad for his kindness, but shaking our heads in protest. "Oh no," he said, "is this bad too?!" I could hear the chuckles, and the privatized water explanation began as I donned my bike helmet in preparation to depart. I'm not sure where Alison's tank/car ended up, but I'm certain that our efforts to build a world without violence were indeed forever chronicled in our own individual and collective historical memories, equally as certain that they had already been dismissed by the military mindset. But whether we make it into their lesson books or not, our presence had been noticed, we had turned some heads, we had made a difference. I had a date for a vegan thanksgiving dinner and rode contentedly away, proud that I had so bravely crossed the line into Navy Land and out again,

wondering what I would tell my Air Force Mom and Navy Dad when they asked me about my day. A radio podcast interview with Raging Grannies' Clara Halber and Alison Acker, and a movie with Art singing, are available online at http://relativenewz.ca. A photo slide show of Saturday's events is at

and another movie with Art is at

(thanks youtube!). If you'd like to support my alternative media work, please donate at http://www.givemeaning.com/donate/n-ggprofile.aspx?gg=512 or send a cheque to Janine Bandcroft, 407, 1939 Lee Avenue Victoria BC V8R 4W9. Thank you - the future you co-create may be your own.-- the truth is in here - http://relativenewz.caStay informed. Subscribe and get the best of PEJ News by email. Free. Peter H

 

Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 7p a photo.

[Guest guest]

My husband is in the Navy and I'm very proud of all he does. I'm not

sure how I'm supposed to feel about this. Does being proud of my

husband's exemplory military career mean I can't be a proud vegan?

Are they mutually exclusive? Can someone help me out with this?

 

 

, peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

>

> Navy Daze and Vegan Nights

>

> Janine Bandcroft

>

> PEJ News

> October 7, 2006

>

>

> I stood in silent vigil, for an hour, looking at a helicopter and

a lineup of people waiting to view it. Behind me were warships,

nearby were military personnel showing off their equipment and

expertise. A man's voice announced, over a megaphone, a welcome to

the Women in Black who, he said, were there to protest Navy Days.

It's not quite as simple as that, I thought, but having agreed to

silence I kept my thoughts to myself as he further erroneously

explained that our ability to be there has nothing to do with our

own courage, but is all because of military excursions around the

world. I disagreed, but sighed relief. They couldn't dare arrest us

after such an endorsement of our right to freely express ourselves.

>

> We stood in our line, brave women and men in black (some not so

black) and quietly watched and listened as passers by looked

questioningly at us. One man yelled 'shame,' a couple of people

took leaflets, and about halfway through a military fellow offered

us each a bottle of water which was silently refused. As if our

presence, our silence, and our banner declaring our attempts

at 'Creating A World Without Violence' weren't courageous enough,

our vigil was completed when Art Farquharson liberated his guitar

from its case and we sang a couple of peace songs.

>

> Outside the gates, across the parking lot, the Raging Grannies

were noisily and busily gathered around Alison's car which had been

redesigned as a tank. Some were organizing the petition table,

others stood with a banner (Don't Be A War Toy, Join The Peace

Workers) near the Navy Days entrance. Again, we were greeted in a

variety of ways, with one young man determined to move the car away

from the entrance where it wouldn't be so clearly seen. Again we

were offered bottled water, but this time we could express our

discontent - thanking the young lad for his kindness, but shaking

our heads in protest. " Oh no, " he said, " is this bad too?! "

>

> I could hear the chuckles, and the privatized water explanation

began as I donned my bike helmet in preparation to depart. I'm not

sure where Alison's tank/car ended up, but I'm certain that our

efforts to build a world without violence were indeed forever

chronicled in our own individual and collective historical memories,

equally as certain that they had already been dismissed by the

military mindset. But whether we make it into their lesson books or

not, our presence had been noticed, we had turned some heads, we had

made a difference. I had a date for a vegan thanksgiving dinner and

rode contentedly away, proud that I had so bravely crossed the line

into Navy Land and out again, wondering what I would tell my Air

Force Mom and Navy Dad when they asked me about my day.

>

> A radio podcast interview with Raging Grannies' Clara Halber and

Alison Acker, and a movie with Art singing, are available online at

http://relativenewz.ca. A photo slide show of Saturday's events is

at

and another movie with

Art is at

(thanks

youtube!).

>

> If you'd like to support my alternative media work, please donate

at http://www.givemeaning.com/donate/n-ggprofile.aspx?gg=512 or send

a cheque to Janine Bandcroft, 407, 1939 Lee Avenue Victoria BC V8R

4W9. Thank you - the future you co-create may be your own.

> --

> the truth is in here - http://relativenewz.ca

>

>

> Stay informed. Subscribe and get the best of PEJ News by email.

Free.

>

>

> Peter H

>

>

>

>

> Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from

just 7p a photo.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jennifer

 

All that matters is how you feel in your heart. There is good and bad

in everything. If you know your hubby is a good man and stands for

what he believes in, support him. If you think what he is doing is

wrong, talk to him but do not judge him. This goes for anything, not

just Navy.

 

There are a lot of views and opinions on everything in life. Just as

you chose veganism, you must choose how you feel. Don't ever let

anyone tell you how to feel about anything. Allow them to give you

other views on things and then you can make the decision that is best

for you.

 

And be careful who you ask these questions to. LOL

Not on this group, but there are very many Vegans out there that

believe that there is only one way to be a Vegan and it is their way.

I cannot stand people like that in any form on any topic.

 

Just go with your heart and know that there will be sacrifices you

need to make in your journey.

 

I am the only Vegan in my house and it is very difficult. I am the

only Vegan I know in my area, so my friends and family and I have to

be open with each other and accept each other for who we are. Love,

understanding and communication gets us through alot of things.

 

Ok, off my soapbox now.

 

Nikki

 

, " Jennifer " <veganjennyforlife

wrote:

>

> My husband is in the Navy and I'm very proud of all he does. I'm not

> sure how I'm supposed to feel about this. Does being proud of my

> husband's exemplory military career mean I can't be a proud vegan?

> Are they mutually exclusive? Can someone help me out with this?

>

>

[Guest guest]

well said nikki

 

 

>earthstrm <earthstorm

>Oct 11, 2006 5:38 AM

>

> Re: Navy Daze and Vegan Nights

>

>Hi Jennifer

>

>All that matters is how you feel in your heart. There is good and bad

>in everything. If you know your hubby is a good man and stands for

>what he believes in, support him. If you think what he is doing is

>wrong, talk to him but do not judge him. This goes for anything, not

>just Navy.

>

>There are a lot of views and opinions on everything in life. Just as

>you chose veganism, you must choose how you feel. Don't ever let

>anyone tell you how to feel about anything. Allow them to give you

>other views on things and then you can make the decision that is best

>for you.

>

>And be careful who you ask these questions to. LOL

>Not on this group, but there are very many Vegans out there that

>believe that there is only one way to be a Vegan and it is their way.

>I cannot stand people like that in any form on any topic.

>

>Just go with your heart and know that there will be sacrifices you

>need to make in your journey.

>

>I am the only Vegan in my house and it is very difficult. I am the

>only Vegan I know in my area, so my friends and family and I have to

>be open with each other and accept each other for who we are. Love,

>understanding and communication gets us through alot of things.

>

>Ok, off my soapbox now.

>

>Nikki

>

> , " Jennifer " <veganjennyforlife

>wrote:

>>

>> My husband is in the Navy and I'm very proud of all he does. I'm not

>> sure how I'm supposed to feel about this. Does being proud of my

>> husband's exemplory military career mean I can't be a proud vegan?

>> Are they mutually exclusive? Can someone help me out with this?

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

Thers nothing wrong with being proud of your husband. Being proud of this countries ( unwanted ) military excursuions into other countries is another thing. Maybe if you were a pacifist or even a conciencious objector, you may view things differently? Peace. The Valley Vegan................. War, what is it good for? absolutely nothing..........Jennifer <veganjennyforlife wrote: My husband is in the Navy and I'm very proud of all he does. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to feel about this. Does being proud of my husband's exemplory military career mean I can't be a proud vegan? Are they mutually exclusive? Can someone help me out with this? , peter VV wrote:>> Navy

Daze and Vegan Nights> > Janine Bandcroft> > PEJ News> October 7, 2006> > > I stood in silent vigil, for an hour, looking at a helicopter and a lineup of people waiting to view it. Behind me were warships, nearby were military personnel showing off their equipment and expertise. A man's voice announced, over a megaphone, a welcome to the Women in Black who, he said, were there to protest Navy Days. It's not quite as simple as that, I thought, but having agreed to silence I kept my thoughts to myself as he further erroneously explained that our ability to be there has nothing to do with our own courage, but is all because of military excursions around the world. I disagreed, but sighed relief. They couldn't dare arrest us after such an endorsement of our right to freely express ourselves.> > We stood in our line, brave women and men in black (some not so black)

and quietly watched and listened as passers by looked questioningly at us. One man yelled 'shame,' a couple of people took leaflets, and about halfway through a military fellow offered us each a bottle of water which was silently refused. As if our presence, our silence, and our banner declaring our attempts at 'Creating A World Without Violence' weren't courageous enough, our vigil was completed when Art Farquharson liberated his guitar from its case and we sang a couple of peace songs. > > Outside the gates, across the parking lot, the Raging Grannies were noisily and busily gathered around Alison's car which had been redesigned as a tank. Some were organizing the petition table, others stood with a banner (Don't Be A War Toy, Join The Peace Workers) near the Navy Days entrance. Again, we were greeted in a variety of ways, with one young man determined to move the car away from the entrance where it

wouldn't be so clearly seen. Again we were offered bottled water, but this time we could express our discontent - thanking the young lad for his kindness, but shaking our heads in protest. "Oh no," he said, "is this bad too?!" > > I could hear the chuckles, and the privatized water explanation began as I donned my bike helmet in preparation to depart. I'm not sure where Alison's tank/car ended up, but I'm certain that our efforts to build a world without violence were indeed forever chronicled in our own individual and collective historical memories, equally as certain that they had already been dismissed by the military mindset. But whether we make it into their lesson books or not, our presence had been noticed, we had turned some heads, we had made a difference. I had a date for a vegan thanksgiving dinner and rode contentedly away, proud that I had so bravely crossed the line into Navy Land and out

again, wondering what I would tell my Air Force Mom and Navy Dad when they asked me about my day. > > A radio podcast interview with Raging Grannies' Clara Halber and Alison Acker, and a movie with Art singing, are available online at http://relativenewz.ca. A photo slide show of Saturday's events is at

and another movie with Art is at

(thanks youtube!).> > If you'd like to support my alternative media work, please donate at http://www.givemeaning.com/donate/n-ggprofile.aspx?gg=512 or send a cheque to Janine Bandcroft, 407, 1939 Lee Avenue Victoria BC V8R 4W9. Thank you - the future you co-create may be your own.> -- > the truth is in here - http://relativenewz.ca> > > Stay informed. Subscribe and get the best of PEJ News by email. Free. > > > Peter H >

> > > > Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 7p a photo.>To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Aw gee, *blush*

 

Thx Fraggle!

 

Nikki

 

 

, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

>

> well said nikki

>

>

> >earthstrm <earthstorm

> >Oct 11, 2006 5:38 AM

> >

> > Re: Navy Daze and Vegan Nights

> >

> >Hi Jennifer

> >

> >All that matters is how you feel in your heart.

 

<<SNIP>>

[Guest guest]

I'm working for the us department of defense right now.

the military. the pentagon. the fbi has my fingerprints

and everything.

 

at work, I keep quiet about my opinions and i don't say

anything.

 

 

, peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

>

> Thers nothing wrong with being proud of your husband.

> Being proud of this countries ( unwanted ) military excursuions

into other countries is another thing.

> Maybe if you were a pacifist or even a conciencious objector, you

may view things differently?

>

> Peace.

> The Valley Vegan.................

> War, what is it good for? absolutely nothing..........

[Guest guest]

I don't agree with the war. I never have, I never will and I hate

the very idea that people are dying for a cause I'm not sure is

worth fighting for. I don't care enough about politics to care why

we're at war. I just think it's a waste. Of life, of resources, of

many things.

 

I'm proud of my husband for his work ethic. The way he takes care of

his division. The sailors under him and his family. I think serving

his country is a noble calling and that's what I'm proud of. Not

what the military is doing, but my husband's part in the military.

 

Jennifer

 

 

, " Anouk Sickler " <zurumato

wrote:

>

> I'm working for the us department of defense right now.

> the military. the pentagon. the fbi has my fingerprints

> and everything.

>

> at work, I keep quiet about my opinions and i don't say

> anything.

>

>

> , peter VV <swpgh01@> wrote:

> >

> > Thers nothing wrong with being proud of your husband.

> > Being proud of this countries ( unwanted ) military excursuions

> into other countries is another thing.

> > Maybe if you were a pacifist or even a conciencious objector,

you

> may view things differently?

> >

> > Peace.

> > The Valley Vegan.................

> > War, what is it good for? absolutely nothing..........

>

[Guest guest]

It's a shame you feel you have to defend him though. MAybe you could

feel even more proud of his good work ethic if it was in an

institution that was not involved in war.

 

Jo

 

, " Jennifer " <veganjennyforlife

wrote:

>

>

> I don't agree with the war. I never have, I never will and I hate

> the very idea that people are dying for a cause I'm not sure is

> worth fighting for. I don't care enough about politics to care why

> we're at war. I just think it's a waste. Of life, of resources, of

> many things.

>

> I'm proud of my husband for his work ethic. The way he takes care

of

> his division. The sailors under him and his family. I think serving

> his country is a noble calling and that's what I'm proud of. Not

> what the military is doing, but my husband's part in the military.

>

> Jennifer

>

>

> , " Anouk Sickler " <zurumato@>

> wrote:

> >

> > I'm working for the us department of defense right now.

> > the military. the pentagon. the fbi has my fingerprints

> > and everything.

> >

> > at work, I keep quiet about my opinions and i don't say

> > anything.

> >

> >

> > , peter VV <swpgh01@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Thers nothing wrong with being proud of your husband.

> > > Being proud of this countries ( unwanted ) military

excursuions

> > into other countries is another thing.

> > > Maybe if you were a pacifist or even a conciencious objector,

> you

> > may view things differently?

> > >

> > > Peace.

> > > The Valley Vegan.................

> > > War, what is it good for? absolutely nothing..........

> >

>

[Guest guest]

land of the free

 

if you have the money and power to pay that is...........

 

 

>Anouk Sickler <zurumato

>Oct 12, 2006 11:39 PM

>

> Re: Navy Daze and Vegan Nights

>

>I'm working for the us department of defense right now.

>the military. the pentagon. the fbi has my fingerprints

>and everything.

>

>at work, I keep quiet about my opinions and i don't say

>anything.

>

>

> , peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

>>

>> Thers nothing wrong with being proud of your husband.

>> Being proud of this countries ( unwanted ) military excursuions

>into other countries is another thing.

>> Maybe if you were a pacifist or even a conciencious objector, you

>may view things differently?

>>

>> Peace.

>> The Valley Vegan.................

>> War, what is it good for? absolutely nothing..........

>

>

>

>

>

>To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

should we be saying hi to defense intel now...?

hi pentagon type folks!!!

*waves*

 

 

>Anouk Sickler <zurumato

>Oct 12, 2006 11:39 PM

>

> Re: Navy Daze and Vegan Nights

>

>I'm working for the us department of defense right now.

>the military. the pentagon. the fbi has my fingerprints

>and everything.

>

>at work, I keep quiet about my opinions and i don't say

>anything.

>

>

> , peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

>>

>> Thers nothing wrong with being proud of your husband.

>> Being proud of this countries ( unwanted ) military excursuions

>into other countries is another thing.

>> Maybe if you were a pacifist or even a conciencious objector, you

>may view things differently?

>>

>> Peace.

>> The Valley Vegan.................

>> War, what is it good for? absolutely nothing..........

>

>

>

>

>

>To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

Jeez h, I had no idea, I better watch what I type from now on! The Valley Vegan...............Anouk Sickler <zurumato wrote: I'm working for the us department of defense right now. the military. the pentagon. the fbi has my fingerprints and everything. at work, I keep quiet about my opinions and i don't say anything. , peter VV wrote:>> Thers nothing wrong with being proud of your husband.> Being proud of this countries ( unwanted ) military excursuionsinto other countries is another thing.> Maybe if you were a pacifist or even a conciencious objector, youmay view things differently?> > Peace.> The Valley Vegan.................> War, what is it

good for? absolutely nothing..........To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

So you are against war, but proud that your husband is very concientious and has a good work ethic. Fair enough, but doesnt one go against the other if his job entails fighting and killing? Dont get me wrong, this is no criticism of you or him, just trying to understand how you think about these things. Personally, I see nothing noble about serving in a superpowers forces where the mentality is one of " we do what we want, what we think is right, regardless of your countrys opinion, and whether we are asked/invited or not" The Valley Vegan...............Jennifer <veganjennyforlife wrote: I don't agree with the war. I never have, I never will and I hate the very idea that people are dying for a cause I'm not sure is worth fighting for. I don't care enough about politics

to care why we're at war. I just think it's a waste. Of life, of resources, of many things. I'm proud of my husband for his work ethic. The way he takes care of his division. The sailors under him and his family. I think serving his country is a noble calling and that's what I'm proud of. Not what the military is doing, but my husband's part in the military. Jennifer , "Anouk Sickler" wrote:>> I'm working for the us department of defense right now. > the military. the pentagon. the fbi has my fingerprints > and everything. > > at work, I keep quiet about my opinions and i don't say > anything. > > > , peter VV wrote:> >> > Thers nothing wrong with being proud of your husband.> > Being proud of this countries ( unwanted ) military

excursuions> into other countries is another thing.> > Maybe if you were a pacifist or even a conciencious objector, you> may view things differently?> > > > Peace.> > The Valley Vegan.................> > War, what is it good for? absolutely nothing..........>To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

i'm just a translator.

i have worked for different government agencies, the EPA, the CDC,

the NIH and the department of education and now for the DOD.

 

they want to find out stuff about hispanics and other people all

over the us, I just translate stuff from spanish to english and

vice versa.

 

by stuff i mean (the career plans of 16-21 year olds) but

I can't talk about it much since I have signed confidentiality

agreements.

 

I just think of myself as a translator with no opinion.

 

 

, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

>

> should we be saying hi to defense intel now...?

> hi pentagon type folks!!!

> *waves*

>

>

> >Anouk Sickler <zurumato

> >Oct 12, 2006 11:39 PM

> >

> > Re: Navy Daze and Vegan Nights

> >

> >I'm working for the us department of defense right now.

> >the military. the pentagon. the fbi has my fingerprints

> >and everything.

> >

> >at work, I keep quiet about my opinions and i don't say

> >anything.

> >

> >

> > , peter VV <swpgh01@> wrote:

> >>

> >> Thers nothing wrong with being proud of your husband.

> >> Being proud of this countries ( unwanted ) military excursuions

> >into other countries is another thing.

> >> Maybe if you were a pacifist or even a conciencious objector, you

> >may view things differently?

> >>

> >> Peace.

> >> The Valley Vegan.................

> >> War, what is it good for? absolutely nothing..........

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >To send an email to -

> >

[Guest guest]

hi peter,

 

in order to work in the government here, one has to give an

account for everything i was doing for the last seven years,

account for every time I left the country and the ss numbers of my

family etc.

It feels like an invasion of privacy, but it's not like they

don't already know that about everyone.

 

this project will be over in december. there are not many jobs

in my town. I would like to work for Greenpeace, but maybe

I will have to move to another city.

 

in any job, i feel that there are some things that a person

draws a line. for instance, I won't lie anyone, if it is not

something i do not believe in.

 

 

 

, peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

>

> Jeez h, I had no idea, I better watch what I type from now on!

>

> The Valley Vegan...............

>

> Anouk Sickler <zurumato wrote:

> I'm working for the us department of defense right now.

> the military. the pentagon. the fbi has my fingerprints

> and everything.

>

> at work, I keep quiet about my opinions and i don't say

> anything.

>

>

> , peter VV wrote:

> >

> > Thers nothing wrong with being proud of your husband.

> > Being proud of this countries ( unwanted ) military excursuions

> into other countries is another thing.

> > Maybe if you were a pacifist or even a conciencious objector, you

> may view things differently?

> >

> > Peace.

> > The Valley Vegan.................

> > War, what is it good for? absolutely nothing..........

>

>

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

i was making a semi joke that since you now work for the government, they watch

yer mail..hence they watch this site

 

 

>flower child <zurumato

>Oct 13, 2006 3:57 PM

>

> Re: Navy Daze and Vegan Nights

>

>

>i'm just a translator.

>i have worked for different government agencies, the EPA, the CDC,

>the NIH and the department of education and now for the DOD.

>

>they want to find out stuff about hispanics and other people all

>over the us, I just translate stuff from spanish to english and

>vice versa.

>

>by stuff i mean (the career plans of 16-21 year olds) but

>I can't talk about it much since I have signed confidentiality

>agreements.

>

>I just think of myself as a translator with no opinion.

>

>

> , fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

>>

>> should we be saying hi to defense intel now...?

>> hi pentagon type folks!!!

>> *waves*

>>

>>

>> >Anouk Sickler <zurumato

>> >Oct 12, 2006 11:39 PM

>> >

>> > Re: Navy Daze and Vegan Nights

>> >

>> >I'm working for the us department of defense right now.

>> >the military. the pentagon. the fbi has my fingerprints

>> >and everything.

>> >

>> >at work, I keep quiet about my opinions and i don't say

>> >anything.

>> >

>> >

>> > , peter VV <swpgh01@> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> Thers nothing wrong with being proud of your husband.

>> >> Being proud of this countries ( unwanted ) military excursuions

>> >into other countries is another thing.

>> >> Maybe if you were a pacifist or even a conciencious objector, you

>> >may view things differently?

>> >>

>> >> Peace.

>> >> The Valley Vegan.................

>> >> War, what is it good for? absolutely nothing..........

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >To send an email to -

>> >

[Guest guest]

His job entails neither fighting nor killing. He's a navigator. He

plots courses and keeps the ship from running aground. If the ship

where to be attacked, his job would be to patch pipework so it

doesn't sink. It's too tiresome and fruitless to stress about the

larger picture when you have no control over it. HE'S doing the

right thing for his family, friends and country and if you don't

think it's noble, then that's your opinion. You can spend the rest

of your life feeling the way you feel about the government and what

it does, but regardless of what you think, feel, say or do,

the " superpower " of the United States is going to do what it wants

to do anyway. And you will have spent all that time being in

opposition for no good at all. You'll die having made little to no

impact. So why get upset about it? Just be happy with yourself and

your life the way it is. As far as I see it, the military is job

security, a steady paycheck and free medical, and the rest, I could

care less about.

 

Jennifer

 

 

, peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

>

> So you are against war, but proud that your husband is very

concientious and has a good work ethic. Fair enough, but doesnt one

go against the other if his job entails fighting and killing? Dont

get me wrong, this is no criticism of you or him, just trying to

understand how you think about these things.

> Personally, I see nothing noble about serving in a superpowers

forces where the mentality is one of " we do what we want, what we

think is right, regardless of your countrys opinion, and whether we

are asked/invited or not "

>

> The Valley Vegan...............

>

> Jennifer <veganjennyforlife wrote:

>

> I don't agree with the war. I never have, I never will and I hate

> the very idea that people are dying for a cause I'm not sure is

> worth fighting for. I don't care enough about politics to care why

> we're at war. I just think it's a waste. Of life, of resources, of

> many things.

>

> I'm proud of my husband for his work ethic. The way he takes care

of

> his division. The sailors under him and his family. I think

serving

> his country is a noble calling and that's what I'm proud of. Not

> what the military is doing, but my husband's part in the military.

>

> Jennifer

>

>

> , " Anouk Sickler "

> wrote:

> >

> > I'm working for the us department of defense right now.

> > the military. the pentagon. the fbi has my fingerprints

> > and everything.

> >

> > at work, I keep quiet about my opinions and i don't say

> > anything.

> >

> >

> > , peter VV wrote:

> > >

> > > Thers nothing wrong with being proud of your husband.

> > > Being proud of this countries ( unwanted ) military excursuions

> > into other countries is another thing.

> > > Maybe if you were a pacifist or even a conciencious objector,

> you

> > may view things differently?

> > >

> > > Peace.

> > > The Valley Vegan.................

> > > War, what is it good for? absolutely nothing..........

> >

To send an email to -

 

>

[Guest guest]

If someone said you where wrong for being vegan because God made

animals for our consumption, would you defend yourself? I feel that

my husband is doing something good. He is not defined by the war.

There are hundreds of thousands of military men and woman fighting

in this stupid war that don't agree with it. And no I wouldn't be

even more proud if he was in some other institution. The equivalent

civilian job to what my husband does would be a cruise ship

navigator and what the hell is noble about that? The only danger

he'd ever be in was of running out of french roast coffee on the

bridge.

 

Jennifer

 

, " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork

wrote:

>

> It's a shame you feel you have to defend him though. MAybe you

could

> feel even more proud of his good work ethic if it was in an

> institution that was not involved in war.

>

> Jo

>

> , " Jennifer " <veganjennyforlife@>

> wrote:

> >

> >

> > I don't agree with the war. I never have, I never will and I

hate

> > the very idea that people are dying for a cause I'm not sure is

> > worth fighting for. I don't care enough about politics to care

why

> > we're at war. I just think it's a waste. Of life, of resources,

of

> > many things.

> >

> > I'm proud of my husband for his work ethic. The way he takes

care

> of

> > his division. The sailors under him and his family. I think

serving

> > his country is a noble calling and that's what I'm proud of. Not

> > what the military is doing, but my husband's part in the

military.

> >

> > Jennifer

> >

> >

> > , " Anouk Sickler " <zurumato@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > I'm working for the us department of defense right now.

> > > the military. the pentagon. the fbi has my fingerprints

> > > and everything.

> > >

> > > at work, I keep quiet about my opinions and i don't say

> > > anything.

> > >

> > >

> > > , peter VV <swpgh01@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Thers nothing wrong with being proud of your husband.

> > > > Being proud of this countries ( unwanted ) military

> excursuions

> > > into other countries is another thing.

> > > > Maybe if you were a pacifist or even a conciencious

objector,

> > you

> > > may view things differently?

> > > >

> > > > Peace.

> > > > The Valley Vegan.................

> > > > War, what is it good for? absolutely nothing..........

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jennifer~

 

And you should be proud! It sounds like your husband is a good man.

 

Very well said.

 

Nikki

 

 

, " Jennifer " <veganjennyforlife

wrote:

>

>

> I don't agree with the war. I never have, I never will and I hate

> the very idea that people are dying for a cause I'm not sure is

> worth fighting for. I don't care enough about politics to care why

> we're at war. I just think it's a waste. Of life, of resources, of

> many things.

>

> I'm proud of my husband for his work ethic. The way he takes care of

> his division. The sailors under him and his family. I think serving

> his country is a noble calling and that's what I'm proud of. Not

> what the military is doing, but my husband's part in the military.

>

> Jennifer

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

Doesn't it go against my Vegan ethics living in a house where others

eat meat?

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying. Personally I

have ties to the military too with family and friends and it is a

strange circumstance to be in.

 

But I would rather know that there were good people in the military,

DOD, government etc, than see it all as bad.

 

Shall we stop talking with Anouk now that we know where she works?

 

This is in no way a personal attack on you, just another view.

 

((hugz))

 

Nikki

 

 

, peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

>

> So you are against war, but proud that your husband is very

concientious and has a good work ethic. Fair enough, but doesnt one go

against the other if his job entails fighting and killing? Dont get me

wrong, this is no criticism of you or him, just trying to understand

how you think about these things.

> Personally, I see nothing noble about serving in a superpowers

forces where the mentality is one of " we do what we want, what we

think is right, regardless of your countrys opinion, and whether we

are asked/invited or not "

>

> The Valley Vegan...............

[Guest guest]

Very well put. It sounds as if you are in a difficult situation but

have done well to keep your personal ethics. Not always an easy thing

to do!

 

Nikki

 

 

, " flower child " <zurumato wrote:

>

> hi peter,

>

> in order to work in the government here, one has to give an

> account for everything i was doing for the last seven years,

> account for every time I left the country and the ss numbers of my

> family etc.

> It feels like an invasion of privacy, but it's not like they

> don't already know that about everyone.

>

> this project will be over in december. there are not many jobs

> in my town. I would like to work for Greenpeace, but maybe

> I will have to move to another city.

>

> in any job, i feel that there are some things that a person

> draws a line. for instance, I won't lie anyone, if it is not

> something i do not believe in.

>

>

[Guest guest]

(imo) The only good soldiers are the ones who go AWOL. Every soldier is expected to kill whatever he is told without questioning it and its reprocussions. We have all seen the results of war, even generals are now admitting that we were not invited into Iraq, but we "kicked the door in", and as a result of that unwelcome visit the figures of civilians killed in Iraq must be over 500,000 by now. Men , Women and children. http://thetyee.ca/News/2005/08/02/IraqDeserter/ http://www.peacemagazine.org/index.html Just my opinion. The Valley Vegan..................earthstrm <earthstorm wrote: Hi PeterDoesn't it go

against my Vegan ethics living in a house where otherseat meat?Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying. Personally Ihave ties to the military too with family and friends and it is astrange circumstance to be in.But I would rather know that there were good people in the military,DOD, government etc, than see it all as bad.Shall we stop talking with Anouk now that we know where she works?This is in no way a personal attack on you, just another view. ((hugz))Nikki , peter VV wrote:>> So you are against war, but proud that your husband is veryconcientious and has a good work ethic. Fair enough, but doesnt one goagainst the other if his job entails fighting and killing? Dont get mewrong, this is no criticism of you or him, just trying to understandhow you think about these things.> Personally, I see nothing

noble about serving in a superpowersforces where the mentality is one of " we do what we want, what wethink is right, regardless of your countrys opinion, and whether weare asked/invited or not"> > The Valley Vegan...............To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

......... and onr I agree with - although I understand supporting your loved one, even in those circumstances.

 

Jo

 

 

-

peter VV

Saturday, October 14, 2006 4:38 PM

Re: Re: Navy Daze and Vegan Nights

 

(imo) The only good soldiers are the ones who go AWOL. Every soldier is expected to kill whatever he is told without questioning it and its reprocussions. We have all seen the results of war, even generals are now admitting that we were not invited into Iraq, but we "kicked the door in", and as a result of that unwelcome visit the figures of civilians killed in Iraq must be over 500,000 by now. Men , Women and children.

http://thetyee.ca/News/2005/08/02/IraqDeserter/

http://www.peacemagazine.org/index.html

 

Just my opinion.

 

The Valley Vegan..................earthstrm <earthstorm wrote:

Hi PeterDoesn't it go against my Vegan ethics living in a house where otherseat meat?Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying. Personally Ihave ties to the military too with family and friends and it is astrange circumstance to be in.But I would rather know that there were good people in the military,DOD, government etc, than see it all as bad.Shall we stop talking with Anouk now that we know where she works?This is in no way a personal attack on you, just another view. ((hugz))Nikki , peter VV wrote:>> So you are against war, but proud that your husband is veryconcientious and has a good work ethic. Fair enough, but doesnt one goagainst the other if his job entails fighting and killing? Dont get mewrong, this is no criticism of you or him, just trying to understandhow you think about these things.> Personally, I see nothing noble about serving in a superpowersforces where the mentality is one of " we do what we want, what wethink is right, regardless of your countrys opinion, and whether weare asked/invited or not"> > The Valley Vegan...............To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Firstly, I think you are taking this personally which you shouldnt, we are not attacking you or your husband, merely saying that we disagree with his chosen profession, and his employer. Secondly , what has nobility got to do with it?, what would be wrong with navigating a cruise ship?, no one gets hurt/killed as a rule on a cruise ship? and of course I would disagree with the God thing as I dont believe in him either... The Valley Vegan..............Jennifer <veganjennyforlife wrote: If someone said you where wrong for being vegan because God made animals for our consumption, would you defend yourself? I feel that my husband is doing something good. He is not defined by the war. There are hundreds of thousands of military men and woman fighting in this

stupid war that don't agree with it. And no I wouldn't be even more proud if he was in some other institution. The equivalent civilian job to what my husband does would be a cruise ship navigator and what the hell is noble about that? The only danger he'd ever be in was of running out of french roast coffee on the bridge. Jennifer , "heartwerk" wrote:>> It's a shame you feel you have to defend him though. MAybe you could > feel even more proud of his good work ethic if it was in an > institution that was not involved in war.> > Jo> > , "Jennifer" > wrote:> >> > > > I don't agree with the war. I never have, I never will and I hate > > the very idea that people are dying for a cause I'm not sure is > > worth

fighting for. I don't care enough about politics to care why > > we're at war. I just think it's a waste. Of life, of resources, of > > many things. > > > > I'm proud of my husband for his work ethic. The way he takes care > of > > his division. The sailors under him and his family. I think serving > > his country is a noble calling and that's what I'm proud of. Not > > what the military is doing, but my husband's part in the military. > > > > Jennifer> > > > > > , "Anouk Sickler" > > wrote:> > >> > > I'm working for the us department of defense right now. > > > the military. the pentagon. the fbi has my fingerprints > > > and everything. > > > > > > at work, I keep quiet about my opinions and i

don't say > > > anything. > > > > > > > > > , peter VV wrote:> > > >> > > > Thers nothing wrong with being proud of your husband.> > > > Being proud of this countries ( unwanted ) military > excursuions> > > into other countries is another thing.> > > > Maybe if you were a pacifist or even a conciencious objector, > > you> > > may view things differently?> > > > > > > > Peace.> > > > The Valley Vegan.................> > > > War, what is it good for? absolutely nothing..........> > >> >>To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

You did ask for opinions - and there will be many, so don't be surprised.

What was your reason for asking?

 

Jo

 

-

" Jennifer " <veganjennyforlife

 

Saturday, October 14, 2006 2:24 AM

Re: Navy Daze and Vegan Nights

 

 

> His job entails neither fighting nor killing. He's a navigator. He

> plots courses and keeps the ship from running aground. If the ship

> where to be attacked, his job would be to patch pipework so it

> doesn't sink. It's too tiresome and fruitless to stress about the

> larger picture when you have no control over it. HE'S doing the

> right thing for his family, friends and country and if you don't

> think it's noble, then that's your opinion. You can spend the rest

> of your life feeling the way you feel about the government and what

> it does, but regardless of what you think, feel, say or do,

> the " superpower " of the United States is going to do what it wants

> to do anyway. And you will have spent all that time being in

> opposition for no good at all. You'll die having made little to no

> impact. So why get upset about it? Just be happy with yourself and

> your life the way it is. As far as I see it, the military is job

> security, a steady paycheck and free medical, and the rest, I could

> care less about.

>

> Jennifer

>

>

> , peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

> >

> > So you are against war, but proud that your husband is very

> concientious and has a good work ethic. Fair enough, but doesnt one

> go against the other if his job entails fighting and killing? Dont

> get me wrong, this is no criticism of you or him, just trying to

> understand how you think about these things.

> > Personally, I see nothing noble about serving in a superpowers

> forces where the mentality is one of " we do what we want, what we

> think is right, regardless of your countrys opinion, and whether we

> are asked/invited or not "

> >

> > The Valley Vegan...............

> >

> > Jennifer <veganjennyforlife wrote:

> >

> > I don't agree with the war. I never have, I never will and I hate

> > the very idea that people are dying for a cause I'm not sure is

> > worth fighting for. I don't care enough about politics to care why

> > we're at war. I just think it's a waste. Of life, of resources, of

> > many things.

> >

> > I'm proud of my husband for his work ethic. The way he takes care

> of

> > his division. The sailors under him and his family. I think

> serving

> > his country is a noble calling and that's what I'm proud of. Not

> > what the military is doing, but my husband's part in the military.

> >

> > Jennifer

> >

> >

> > , " Anouk Sickler "

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > I'm working for the us department of defense right now.

> > > the military. the pentagon. the fbi has my fingerprints

> > > and everything.

> > >

> > > at work, I keep quiet about my opinions and i don't say

> > > anything.

> > >

> > >

> > > , peter VV wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Thers nothing wrong with being proud of your husband.

> > > > Being proud of this countries ( unwanted ) military excursuions

> > > into other countries is another thing.

> > > > Maybe if you were a pacifist or even a conciencious objector,

> > you

> > > may view things differently?

> > > >

> > > > Peace.

> > > > The Valley Vegan.................

> > > > War, what is it good for? absolutely nothing..........

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > To send an email to -

>

> >