i don't think whoops will cover it...

[Guest guest]

LONDON, Aug. 17 (Xinhuanet) -- A leaked report has alleged

serious police blunders in the shooting of an innocent Brazilian man

in the wake of the abortive London bombings in mid July, Sky news

reported Wednesday.

 

Jean Charles de Menezes was shot dead by anti-terrorist officers

at Stockwell tube station in south London in the mistaken belief he

was linked to the failed July 21 bomb attempts.

 

 

 

The body of Jean Charles de Menezes of Brazil lies in a London

Underground train after he was shot dead by police July 22 in this

photograph obtained by ITV News on August 16. (Reuters)

Documents leaked to ITV (Independent Television) News suggest

Menezes did not flee from armed officers by vaulting over barriers

before getting onto an underground train, where the officers opened

fire.

 

The Brazilian was not even seen leaving the flats in Tulse Hill

which was under surveillance because one of the officers

was " relieving himself. "

 

But during his journey to the underground station officers

decided he matched the description of one of two terror suspects,

including Hussein Osman, the alleged attempted bomber at another

tube station.

 

The leaked report says Menezes entered the station at a normal

walking pace and picked up a copy of a free newspaper.

 

He was seen to slowly descend the escalators before running for

a train and sitting down.

 

The report also indicated the 27-year-old was wearing a light

denim jacket and not the heavily padded coat as initially claimed.

 

Matozinho Otoni da Silva, the father of the slain 27-year-old

Brazilian electrician Jean Charles de Menezes, shows a photograph of

his son July 24. (AFP)

 

Witnesses said that he was not aware he was being followed until

shot dead on the Tube.

 

But the report says " CCTV captured Menezes running across the

concourse and entering the carriage before sitting down.

 

" Almost simultaneously, armed officers were provided with

positive identification. "

 

One police officer was quoted as saying he was able to grab

Menezes and pin his arms to his side before the shooting started.

 

The report also said a post mortem examination showed that

Menezes was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder,

but three other bullets missed.

 

The new account was said to have been obtained from the

Independent Police Complaints Commission investigating into the

killing of the electrician.

 

" It raises very, very serious questions about the shoot-to-kill

policy and shows immediate questions need to be asked about whether

this policy should be in operation and how dangerously wrong it can

go, " said Harriet Wistrich, lawyer for the Menezes family.

 

" The family have always known that this was absolutely an

outrageous mistake, at the very least, and that their son was

entirely innocent, " noted the lawyer. Enditem

 

a blinding flash

hotter than the sun

dead bodies lie across the path

the radiation colors the air

finishing one by one

[Guest guest]

So many lies .............

 

:-(

 

Jo

 

 

 

> LONDON, Aug. 17 (Xinhuanet) -- A leaked report has alleged

> serious police blunders in the shooting of an innocent Brazilian man

> in the wake of the abortive London bombings in mid July, Sky news

> reported Wednesday.

>

> Jean Charles de Menezes was shot dead by anti-terrorist officers

> at Stockwell tube station in south London in the mistaken belief he

> was linked to the failed July 21 bomb attempts.

>

>

>

> The body of Jean Charles de Menezes of Brazil lies in a London

> Underground train after he was shot dead by police July 22 in this

> photograph obtained by ITV News on August 16. (Reuters)

> Documents leaked to ITV (Independent Television) News suggest

> Menezes did not flee from armed officers by vaulting over barriers

> before getting onto an underground train, where the officers opened

> fire.

>

> The Brazilian was not even seen leaving the flats in Tulse Hill

> which was under surveillance because one of the officers

> was " relieving himself. "

>

> But during his journey to the underground station officers

> decided he matched the description of one of two terror suspects,

> including Hussein Osman, the alleged attempted bomber at another

> tube station.

>

> The leaked report says Menezes entered the station at a normal

> walking pace and picked up a copy of a free newspaper.

>

> He was seen to slowly descend the escalators before running for

> a train and sitting down.

>

> The report also indicated the 27-year-old was wearing a light

> denim jacket and not the heavily padded coat as initially claimed.

>

> Matozinho Otoni da Silva, the father of the slain 27-year-old

> Brazilian electrician Jean Charles de Menezes, shows a photograph of

> his son July 24. (AFP)

>

> Witnesses said that he was not aware he was being followed until

> shot dead on the Tube.

>

> But the report says " CCTV captured Menezes running across the

> concourse and entering the carriage before sitting down.

>

> " Almost simultaneously, armed officers were provided with

> positive identification. "

>

> One police officer was quoted as saying he was able to grab

> Menezes and pin his arms to his side before the shooting started.

>

> The report also said a post mortem examination showed that

> Menezes was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder,

> but three other bullets missed.

>

> The new account was said to have been obtained from the

> Independent Police Complaints Commission investigating into the

> killing of the electrician.

>

> " It raises very, very serious questions about the shoot-to-kill

> policy and shows immediate questions need to be asked about whether

> this policy should be in operation and how dangerously wrong it can

> go, " said Harriet Wistrich, lawyer for the Menezes family.

>

> " The family have always known that this was absolutely an

> outrageous mistake, at the very least, and that their son was

> entirely innocent, " noted the lawyer. Enditem

>

> a blinding flash

> hotter than the sun

> dead bodies lie across the path

> the radiation colors the air

> finishing one by one

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

Terrible thing to be guilty of looking like someone else. A crime punishable by death, apparently.fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

LONDON, Aug. 17 (Xinhuanet) -- A leaked report has alleged serious police blunders in the shooting of an innocent Brazilian man in the wake of the abortive London bombings in mid July, Sky news reported Wednesday. Jean Charles de Menezes was shot dead by anti-terrorist officers at Stockwell tube station in south London in the mistaken belief he was linked to the failed July 21 bomb attempts. The body of Jean Charles de Menezes of Brazil lies in a London Underground train after he was shot dead by police July 22 in this photograph obtained by ITV News on August 16. (Reuters) Documents leaked to ITV (Independent Television) News suggest Menezes did not flee from armed officers by vaulting over barriers before getting onto an underground train, where the officers opened fire.

The Brazilian was not even seen leaving the flats in Tulse Hill which was under surveillance because one of the officers was "relieving himself." But during his journey to the underground station officers decided he matched the description of one of two terror suspects, including Hussein Osman, the alleged attempted bomber at another tube station. The leaked report says Menezes entered the station at a normal walking pace and picked up a copy of a free newspaper. He was seen to slowly descend the escalators before running for a train and sitting down. The report also indicated the 27-year-old was wearing a light denim jacket and not the heavily padded coat as initially claimed. Matozinho Otoni da Silva, the father of the slain 27-year-old Brazilian electrician Jean Charles de Menezes, shows a photograph of

his son July 24. (AFP) Witnesses said that he was not aware he was being followed until shot dead on the Tube. But the report says "CCTV captured Menezes running across the concourse and entering the carriage before sitting down. "Almost simultaneously, armed officers were provided with positive identification." One police officer was quoted as saying he was able to grab Menezes and pin his arms to his side before the shooting started. The report also said a post mortem examination showed that Menezes was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder, but three other bullets missed. The new account was said to have been obtained from the Independent Police Complaints Commission investigating into the killing of the electrician. "It raises very, very

serious questions about the shoot-to-kill policy and shows immediate questions need to be asked about whether this policy should be in operation and how dangerously wrong it can go," said Harriet Wistrich, lawyer for the Menezes family. "The family have always known that this was absolutely an outrageous mistake, at the very least, and that their son was entirely innocent," noted the lawyer. Enditema blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one Jonnie

Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour

[Guest guest]

along the same lines...

the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his

luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma

city, who said something along the lines of " boys will be boys.. "

 

so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a " red " state..its all

ok..hey..mistakes happen

 

if you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian,

then...*bang*.. " stop or we'll shoot " .. " oh damn..i got it backwards again.. "

 

the world is amessed up place

 

a blinding flash

hotter than the sun

dead bodies lie across the path

the radiation colors the air

finishing one by one

[Guest guest]

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

Someone want to tell me where the schools had nativity plays? They sure didn't in the Bay Area in the 50s and 60s or counties north in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s. So, where did they do this? The Bible Belt?

 

And besides Catholic and other religious schools, where and when did any public anything have Christ on a cross?

 

As to your Christian charities, well, most of them reguire some type of religion in exchange for their services. You do know that most Salvation Army outfits that handed out food (commodities) required that folks not wear crosses that came into their buildings to collect the food? The list goes on. The outfits in Texas getting the money since Dumbya are all about preaching and not giving unless you belong to the "correct" religion. Pagens and Wiccans are routinely turned away. In the dark ages, gays were routinely turned away.

 

I think looking back on things makes a big difference to what one sees and it isn't always the reality that others lived through.

 

Lynda

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:00 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

easy there lynda.....

take a deep breathe

 

remember, we are from all over on this list

 

peter is from wales..sooooo...

 

and hey, in cromwell's day, they banned x-mas altogether Lynda Aug 19, 2005 2:21 PM Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Someone want to tell me where the schools had nativity plays? They sure didn't in the Bay Area in the 50s and 60s or counties north in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s. So, where did they do this? The Bible Belt?

 

And besides Catholic and other religious schools, where and when did any public anything have Christ on a cross?

 

As to your Christian charities, well, most of them reguire some type of religion in exchange for their services. You do know that most Salvation Army outfits that handed out food (commodities) required that folks not wear crosses that came into their buildings to collect the food? The list goes on. The outfits in Texas getting the money since Dumbya are all about preaching and not giving unless you belong to the "correct" religion. Pagens and Wiccans are routinely turned away. In the dark ages, gays were routinely turned away.

 

I think looking back on things makes a big difference to what one sees and it isn't always the reality that others lived through.

 

Lynda

 

----- Original Message

a blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the air

finishing one by one

[Guest guest]

Nativity plays used to be a tradition in the U.K., maybe not over there.

Christian Aid : http://www.christian-aid.org.uk/world/how/how.htm

Dont know or care much about what they do apart from giving aid, it isnt compulsary to eat instead of dying. They claim"We give aid on the basis of need, not religion, ethnicity or nationality. We work across divides of religion and culture " which is admirable if true.

The Sally Army always remind me of the Hari Krishnas with their banging tamborines and leaflets, but then I am a warped person....

Dont know how this got around to the dark ages and gays?, and the last statement about looking bacjust went over my head. I personally, try to look forward, not back. That way I avoid most accidents.

 

Loosing my mind again, dribble , dribble.........

 

The Valley Vegan........Lynda <lurine wrote:

 

Someone want to tell me where the schools had nativity plays? They sure didn't in the Bay Area in the 50s and 60s or counties north in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s. So, where did they do this? The Bible Belt?

 

And besides Catholic and other religious schools, where and when did any public anything have Christ on a cross?

 

As to your Christian charities, well, most of them reguire some type of religion in exchange for their services. You do know that most Salvation Army outfits that handed out food (commodities) required that folks not wear crosses that came into their buildings to collect the food? The list goes on. The outfits in Texas getting the money since Dumbya are all about preaching and not giving unless you belong to the "correct" religion. Pagens and Wiccans are routinely turned away. In the dark ages, gays were routinely turned away.

 

I think looking back on things makes a big difference to what one sees and it isn't always the reality that others lived through.

 

Lynda

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:00 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

Yeah wot e said. 'Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, and the territories thereunto belonging'...............not Wales.

New Model Army? you old punk............

 

The Valley Vegan..............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

easy there lynda.....

take a deep breathe

 

remember, we are from all over on this list

 

peter is from wales..sooooo...

 

and hey, in cromwell's day, they banned x-mas altogether Lynda Aug 19, 2005 2:21 PM Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Someone want to tell me where the schools had nativity plays? They sure didn't in the Bay Area in the 50s and 60s or counties north in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s. So, where did they do this? The Bible Belt?

 

And besides Catholic and other religious schools, where and when did any public anything have Christ on a cross?

 

As to your Christian charities, well, most of them reguire some type of religion in exchange for their services. You do know that most Salvation Army outfits that handed out food (commodities) required that folks not wear crosses that came into their buildings to collect the food? The list goes on. The outfits in Texas getting the money since Dumbya are all about preaching and not giving unless you belong to the "correct" religion. Pagens and Wiccans are routinely turned away. In the dark ages, gays were routinely turned away.

 

I think looking back on things makes a big difference to what one sees and it isn't always the reality that others lived through.

 

Lynda

 

----- Original Message

a blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the air

finishing one by one Peter H

 

To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Security Centre.

[Guest guest]

In the UK - always have done. Although I'm not Christian I used to enjoy the festivities each year and decorating the tree (of coure that is a Pagan thing anyway).

 

Jo

 

-

Lynda

Friday, August 19, 2005 10:21 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Someone want to tell me where the schools had nativity plays? They sure didn't in the Bay Area in the 50s and 60s or counties north in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s. So, where did they do this? The Bible Belt?

 

And besides Catholic and other religious schools, where and when did any public anything have Christ on a cross?

 

As to your Christian charities, well, most of them reguire some type of religion in exchange for their services. You do know that most Salvation Army outfits that handed out food (commodities) required that folks not wear crosses that came into their buildings to collect the food? The list goes on. The outfits in Texas getting the money since Dumbya are all about preaching and not giving unless you belong to the "correct" religion. Pagens and Wiccans are routinely turned away. In the dark ages, gays were routinely turned away.

 

I think looking back on things makes a big difference to what one sees and it isn't always the reality that others lived through.

 

Lynda

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:00 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

Darn tootin it is...........

 

The Valley Vegan................talking more redkneck every day?!!?!

Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

 

In the UK - always have done. Although I'm not Christian I used to enjoy the festivities each year and decorating the tree (of coure that is a Pagan thing anyway).

 

Jo

 

-

Lynda

Friday, August 19, 2005 10:21 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Someone want to tell me where the schools had nativity plays? They sure didn't in the Bay Area in the 50s and 60s or counties north in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s. So, where did they do this? The Bible Belt?

 

And besides Catholic and other religious schools, where and when did any public anything have Christ on a cross?

 

As to your Christian charities, well, most of them reguire some type of religion in exchange for their services. You do know that most Salvation Army outfits that handed out food (commodities) required that folks not wear crosses that came into their buildings to collect the food? The list goes on. The outfits in Texas getting the money since Dumbya are all about preaching and not giving unless you belong to the "correct" religion. Pagens and Wiccans are routinely turned away. In the dark ages, gays were routinely turned away.

 

I think looking back on things makes a big difference to what one sees and it isn't always the reality that others lived through.

 

Lynda

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:00 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

Yeah, my middle daughter played violin. I asked her about the choice of songs after a Winter (no longer allowed to be called Christmas) Concert her first year of high school. She said they were only allowed to play traditional non-Christian, Kwanza and Hanukkah songs. I guess the pendulum swings the other way to make up for the previous injustices?peter hurd <swpgh01 wrote:

 

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

Yes , but how far does it have to swing before it comes around again?

The Valley Vegan.........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Yeah, my middle daughter played violin. I asked her about the choice of songs after a Winter (no longer allowed to be called Christmas) Concert her first year of high school. She said they were only allowed to play traditional non-Christian, Kwanza and Hanukkah songs. I guess the pendulum swings the other way to make up for the previous injustices?peter hurd <swpgh01 wrote:

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

"back in the dark ages" is a phrase that a lot of older folks over here use to refer to when they were kids since most kids seem to think that is when we were born <g>

 

Over here, the religious outfits get their money from all kinds of sources including our tax money with the provision that there be no religious strings but there are. They discriminate in a big way.

 

Since I do a lot of pro bono work it drives me up the wall to keep running into these road blocks when I'm trying to help folks. The folks I usually work with aren't there by choice and aren't lifers but they get a big ration of shit because of their religious choices or their very private choices. Sooooo, I get a tad beligerant over these supposed xtian organizations that are so far from Christ-like that they should be the ones called devil worshippers, IMNSHO!

 

Sorry, you got the brunt of it since I just went the rounds with some dipstick at a welfare office who tried to deny benefits because a mother with two young children had the audacity to sign her children up for an e-school and they said that was getting aid and would be counted against any help they'd give her. Long story and on their end pure unadulterated droppings from the south end of a bull!

 

Lynda

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:37 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Nativity plays used to be a tradition in the U.K., maybe not over there.

Christian Aid : http://www.christian-aid.org.uk/world/how/how.htm

Dont know or care much about what they do apart from giving aid, it isnt compulsary to eat instead of dying. They claim"We give aid on the basis of need, not religion, ethnicity or nationality. We work across divides of religion and culture " which is admirable if true.

The Sally Army always remind me of the Hari Krishnas with their banging tamborines and leaflets, but then I am a warped person....

Dont know how this got around to the dark ages and gays?, and the last statement about looking bacjust went over my head. I personally, try to look forward, not back. That way I avoid most accidents.

 

Loosing my mind again, dribble , dribble.........

 

The Valley Vegan........Lynda <lurine wrote:

 

Someone want to tell me where the schools had nativity plays? They sure didn't in the Bay Area in the 50s and 60s or counties north in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s. So, where did they do this? The Bible Belt?

 

And besides Catholic and other religious schools, where and when did any public anything have Christ on a cross?

 

As to your Christian charities, well, most of them reguire some type of religion in exchange for their services. You do know that most Salvation Army outfits that handed out food (commodities) required that folks not wear crosses that came into their buildings to collect the food? The list goes on. The outfits in Texas getting the money since Dumbya are all about preaching and not giving unless you belong to the "correct" religion. Pagens and Wiccans are routinely turned away. In the dark ages, gays were routinely turned away.

 

I think looking back on things makes a big difference to what one sees and it isn't always the reality that others lived through.

 

Lynda

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:00 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

I didn't know there was a redneck area of Wales :-) I must have missed it on my visits.

 

Jo

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 10:45 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Darn tootin it is...........

 

The Valley Vegan................talking more redkneck every day?!!?!

Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

 

In the UK - always have done. Although I'm not Christian I used to enjoy the festivities each year and decorating the tree (of coure that is a Pagan thing anyway).

 

Jo

 

-

Lynda

Friday, August 19, 2005 10:21 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Someone want to tell me where the schools had nativity plays? They sure didn't in the Bay Area in the 50s and 60s or counties north in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s. So, where did they do this? The Bible Belt?

 

And besides Catholic and other religious schools, where and when did any public anything have Christ on a cross?

 

As to your Christian charities, well, most of them reguire some type of religion in exchange for their services. You do know that most Salvation Army outfits that handed out food (commodities) required that folks not wear crosses that came into their buildings to collect the food? The list goes on. The outfits in Texas getting the money since Dumbya are all about preaching and not giving unless you belong to the "correct" religion. Pagens and Wiccans are routinely turned away. In the dark ages, gays were routinely turned away.

 

I think looking back on things makes a big difference to what one sees and it isn't always the reality that others lived through.

 

Lynda

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:00 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

well...no offense, maybe they didn't think to add it

wales had been subsumed into the UK for how long by then?

(sorry..don't know as much british history as i should...) peter hurd Aug 19, 2005 2:52 PM Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

I agree, but it werent in his title. Lets face it , he fought everywhere!

 

The Valley Vegan..........

a blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the air

finishing one by one

[Guest guest]

when my son was in kindergarten, multicuralism was big at that school (2 years ago in nyc).

 

His class celebrated ( had a class party, with costumes and food) FIVE holidays in December. Five!

 

It was exhausting! the parents were expected to help out.

 

But every kid in his kindergarten class was represented.

 

 

 

-

peter hurd

 

8/19/2005 6:54:04 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Yes , but how far does it have to swing before it comes around again?

The Valley Vegan.........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Yeah, my middle daughter played violin. I asked her about the choice of songs after a Winter (no longer allowed to be called Christmas) Concert her first year of high school. She said they were only allowed to play traditional non-Christian, Kwanza and Hanukkah songs. I guess the pendulum swings the other way to make up for the previous injustices?peter hurd <swpgh01 wrote:

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

O.K., I'm having a hard time here coming up with a visual. I mean, we have Jeff Foxworthy and Deliverance, so visuals aren't a problem over here. What the heck does a rednecked Englishman look like?

 

Lynda

 

-

Jo Cwazy

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:59 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

I didn't know there was a redneck area of Wales :-) I must have missed it on my visits.

 

Jo

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 10:45 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Darn tootin it is...........

 

The Valley Vegan................talking more redkneck every day?!!?!

Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

 

In the UK - always have done. Although I'm not Christian I used to enjoy the festivities each year and decorating the tree (of coure that is a Pagan thing anyway).

 

Jo

 

-

Lynda

Friday, August 19, 2005 10:21 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Someone want to tell me where the schools had nativity plays? They sure didn't in the Bay Area in the 50s and 60s or counties north in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s. So, where did they do this? The Bible Belt?

 

And besides Catholic and other religious schools, where and when did any public anything have Christ on a cross?

 

As to your Christian charities, well, most of them reguire some type of religion in exchange for their services. You do know that most Salvation Army outfits that handed out food (commodities) required that folks not wear crosses that came into their buildings to collect the food? The list goes on. The outfits in Texas getting the money since Dumbya are all about preaching and not giving unless you belong to the "correct" religion. Pagens and Wiccans are routinely turned away. In the dark ages, gays were routinely turned away.

 

I think looking back on things makes a big difference to what one sees and it isn't always the reality that others lived through.

 

Lynda

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:00 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

That's nice. Good to see everyone included.

 

Jo

 

-

zurumato

Saturday, August 20, 2005 2:05 AM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

 

when my son was in kindergarten, multicuralism was big at that school (2 years ago in nyc).

 

His class celebrated ( had a class party, with costumes and food) FIVE holidays in December. Five!

 

It was exhausting! the parents were expected to help out.

 

But every kid in his kindergarten class was represented.

 

 

 

-

peter hurd

 

8/19/2005 6:54:04 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Yes , but how far does it have to swing before it comes around again?

The Valley Vegan.........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Yeah, my middle daughter played violin. I asked her about the choice of songs after a Winter (no longer allowed to be called Christmas) Concert her first year of high school. She said they were only allowed to play traditional non-Christian, Kwanza and Hanukkah songs. I guess the pendulum swings the other way to make up for the previous injustices?peter hurd <swpgh01 wrote:

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

The school I last worked with, in a small rural community ignored the "Seperation of Church and State" and put on a Christmas Program using Christian songs throughout it for the most part. I was thourally upset. Some parents kept their children home because their christian beliefs prohibited celebrations such as that and they were made fun of. I was offended because only the Christian theme was presented, not anything about Kwanza or Hanukkah. But where I live, I have come to expect oppresion by the christian majarity.Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Yeah, my middle daughter played violin. I asked her about the choice of songs after a Winter (no longer allowed to be called Christmas) Concert her first year of high school. She said they were only allowed to play traditional non-Christian, Kwanza and Hanukkah songs. I guess the pendulum swings the other way to make up for the previous injustices?peter hurd <swpgh01 wrote:

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

Please tell me you didnt call me an Englishman, say it, SAY IT!

GRRRRRRRRRR!

 

The ( Welsh ) Valley Vegan............Lynda <lurine wrote:

 

O.K., I'm having a hard time here coming up with a visual. I mean, we have Jeff Foxworthy and Deliverance, so visuals aren't a problem over here. What the heck does a rednecked Englishman look like?

 

Lynda

 

-

Jo Cwazy

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:59 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

I didn't know there was a redneck area of Wales :-) I must have missed it on my visits.

 

Jo

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 10:45 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Darn tootin it is...........

 

The Valley Vegan................talking more redkneck every day?!!?!

Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

 

In the UK - always have done. Although I'm not Christian I used to enjoy the festivities each year and decorating the tree (of coure that is a Pagan thing anyway).

 

Jo

 

-

Lynda

Friday, August 19, 2005 10:21 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Someone want to tell me where the schools had nativity plays? They sure didn't in the Bay Area in the 50s and 60s or counties north in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s. So, where did they do this? The Bible Belt?

 

And besides Catholic and other religious schools, where and when did any public anything have Christ on a cross?

 

As to your Christian charities, well, most of them reguire some type of religion in exchange for their services. You do know that most Salvation Army outfits that handed out food (commodities) required that folks not wear crosses that came into their buildings to collect the food? The list goes on. The outfits in Texas getting the money since Dumbya are all about preaching and not giving unless you belong to the "correct" religion. Pagens and Wiccans are routinely turned away. In the dark ages, gays were routinely turned away.

 

I think looking back on things makes a big difference to what one sees and it isn't always the reality that others lived through.

 

Lynda

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:00 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

I don't know what they would look like but he would have to be Welsh as it is Wales and I don't want the Welsh people on the list getting niggly :-)

 

Jo

 

-

Lynda

Saturday, August 20, 2005 5:37 AM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

O.K., I'm having a hard time here coming up with a visual. I mean, we have Jeff Foxworthy and Deliverance, so visuals aren't a problem over here. What the heck does a rednecked Englishman look like?

 

Lynda

 

-

Jo Cwazy

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:59 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

I didn't know there was a redneck area of Wales :-) I must have missed it on my visits.

 

Jo

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 10:45 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Darn tootin it is...........

 

The Valley Vegan................talking more redkneck every day?!!?!

Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

 

In the UK - always have done. Although I'm not Christian I used to enjoy the festivities each year and decorating the tree (of coure that is a Pagan thing anyway).

 

Jo

 

-

Lynda

Friday, August 19, 2005 10:21 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Someone want to tell me where the schools had nativity plays? They sure didn't in the Bay Area in the 50s and 60s or counties north in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s. So, where did they do this? The Bible Belt?

 

And besides Catholic and other religious schools, where and when did any public anything have Christ on a cross?

 

As to your Christian charities, well, most of them reguire some type of religion in exchange for their services. You do know that most Salvation Army outfits that handed out food (commodities) required that folks not wear crosses that came into their buildings to collect the food? The list goes on. The outfits in Texas getting the money since Dumbya are all about preaching and not giving unless you belong to the "correct" religion. Pagens and Wiccans are routinely turned away. In the dark ages, gays were routinely turned away.

 

I think looking back on things makes a big difference to what one sees and it isn't always the reality that others lived through.

 

Lynda

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:00 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

welfare eh? we have a simularly inept organisation over here, you can be denied unemployement benefit, go to the quacks and tell them that you are depressed and unfit to work and hey presto......invalidity benefit!

There are many ways to play the system.......

 

The valley vegan.........Lynda <lurine wrote:

 

"back in the dark ages" is a phrase that a lot of older folks over here use to refer to when they were kids since most kids seem to think that is when we were born <g>

 

Over here, the religious outfits get their money from all kinds of sources including our tax money with the provision that there be no religious strings but there are. They discriminate in a big way.

 

Since I do a lot of pro bono work it drives me up the wall to keep running into these road blocks when I'm trying to help folks. The folks I usually work with aren't there by choice and aren't lifers but they get a big ration of shit because of their religious choices or their very private choices. Sooooo, I get a tad beligerant over these supposed xtian organizations that are so far from Christ-like that they should be the ones called devil worshippers, IMNSHO!

 

Sorry, you got the brunt of it since I just went the rounds with some dipstick at a welfare office who tried to deny benefits because a mother with two young children had the audacity to sign her children up for an e-school and they said that was getting aid and would be counted against any help they'd give her. Long story and on their end pure unadulterated droppings from the south end of a bull!

 

Lynda

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:37 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Nativity plays used to be a tradition in the U.K., maybe not over there.

Christian Aid : http://www.christian-aid.org.uk/world/how/how.htm

Dont know or care much about what they do apart from giving aid, it isnt compulsary to eat instead of dying. They claim"We give aid on the basis of need, not religion, ethnicity or nationality. We work across divides of religion and culture " which is admirable if true.

The Sally Army always remind me of the Hari Krishnas with their banging tamborines and leaflets, but then I am a warped person....

Dont know how this got around to the dark ages and gays?, and the last statement about looking bacjust went over my head. I personally, try to look forward, not back. That way I avoid most accidents.

 

Loosing my mind again, dribble , dribble.........

 

The Valley Vegan........Lynda <lurine wrote:

 

Someone want to tell me where the schools had nativity plays? They sure didn't in the Bay Area in the 50s and 60s or counties north in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s. So, where did they do this? The Bible Belt?

 

And besides Catholic and other religious schools, where and when did any public anything have Christ on a cross?

 

As to your Christian charities, well, most of them reguire some type of religion in exchange for their services. You do know that most Salvation Army outfits that handed out food (commodities) required that folks not wear crosses that came into their buildings to collect the food? The list goes on. The outfits in Texas getting the money since Dumbya are all about preaching and not giving unless you belong to the "correct" religion. Pagens and Wiccans are routinely turned away. In the dark ages, gays were routinely turned away.

 

I think looking back on things makes a big difference to what one sees and it isn't always the reality that others lived through.

 

Lynda

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:00 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one

 

[Guest guest]

Of course not - we wouldn't have you as an Englishman now would we.

 

Jo

 

-

peter hurd

Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:02 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Please tell me you didnt call me an Englishman, say it, SAY IT!

GRRRRRRRRRR!

 

The ( Welsh ) Valley Vegan............Lynda <lurine wrote:

 

O.K., I'm having a hard time here coming up with a visual. I mean, we have Jeff Foxworthy and Deliverance, so visuals aren't a problem over here. What the heck does a rednecked Englishman look like?

 

Lynda

 

-

Jo Cwazy

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:59 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

I didn't know there was a redneck area of Wales :-) I must have missed it on my visits.

 

Jo

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 10:45 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Darn tootin it is...........

 

The Valley Vegan................talking more redkneck every day?!!?!

Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

 

In the UK - always have done. Although I'm not Christian I used to enjoy the festivities each year and decorating the tree (of coure that is a Pagan thing anyway).

 

Jo

 

-

Lynda

Friday, August 19, 2005 10:21 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

Someone want to tell me where the schools had nativity plays? They sure didn't in the Bay Area in the 50s and 60s or counties north in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s. So, where did they do this? The Bible Belt?

 

And besides Catholic and other religious schools, where and when did any public anything have Christ on a cross?

 

As to your Christian charities, well, most of them reguire some type of religion in exchange for their services. You do know that most Salvation Army outfits that handed out food (commodities) required that folks not wear crosses that came into their buildings to collect the food? The list goes on. The outfits in Texas getting the money since Dumbya are all about preaching and not giving unless you belong to the "correct" religion. Pagens and Wiccans are routinely turned away. In the dark ages, gays were routinely turned away.

 

I think looking back on things makes a big difference to what one sees and it isn't always the reality that others lived through.

 

Lynda

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, August 19, 2005 2:00 PM

Re: Re: i don't think "whoops" will cover it...

 

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

On the flip side, we are not alowed to have religious imagery any more at christmas time in our schools for danger of offending other beliefs of minorities. Even if the school only has one muslim/jew/whatever.....

No more Christ on the cross, no more nativity, no more Christmas.This saddens me, not because of the religious aspect, more of a tradition/freedom ting.

Why couldnt schools send out memos to all the parents warning them that Christmas is coming and asking them if there are any objections to a traditional nativity play? surely if there were objections, then some sort of arrangement could be made to accomodate these and excuse them from attending?

Meanwhile, charities such as Christian Aid help out these "minorities", and their help is never regarded as offensive?!, they never have to change their name to Non specific belief Aid! Their aid is neve refused on religious grounds.

This PC society has gone too far in this country.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Or female with the right goods!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: along the same lines...the guy who tried to board a plane in oklahoma last week with pipebomb in his luggage got released on bail...he got bailed out by the ex mayor of oklahoma city, who said something along the lines of "boys will be boys.."so..apparantly, if yer caucasian, and live in a "red" state..its all ok..hey..mistakes happenif you happen to be named mohammed, er have dark skin, maybe, oh, brazilian, then...*bang*.."stop or we'll shoot".."oh damn..i got it backwards again.."the world is amessed up placea blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the airfinishing one by one