Question Aboot Chickens

[Guest guest]

Our school caretaker used to keep some chickens (obviously this is 50

years ago) beside the school playground. They had a big area

surrounded by chicken wire, and a covered area for roosting. In the

same era, my neighbour also kept chickens in a similar area at the

end of his large garden. They were not overcrowded in either place.

I used to be very interested in these chickens, both at school and at

home. None of them were ever attacked by the other chickens - their

eyes etc. remained intact.

 

Maybe the attacking takes place when they are too crowded, as in

modern factory farming, which is normal to all animals, including

humans (more aggressive crime in cities etc.).

 

Jo

 

, " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote:

> You want humans to continue to unnaturally breed animals?

>

> I strongly disagree that it is our responsibility to preserve

something we invented. But we certainly didn't steal their habitat

because they never had any.

>

> Animals that are endangered weren't " invented " by man for his

pleasure.

>

> BTW, chickens do bite and they have spurs and you really don't want

to tangle with an angry rooster!

>

> All we owe species we invented is a retirement community where they

get to live out their lives in peace. When those species end, they

end.

>

> And, I'm afraid that chickens are rather stupid. They will peck

each other to death, they will climb onto each other and smother the

ones on the bottom who will not even try to get out from under the

pile and just lay down and die. They are cannibals which is kind of

nasty. They'll peck another to death if they have so much as a spot

of blood on them. They'll peck the eyeballs out of others because of

the way the light hits their eyes (shiny object, peck it).

>

> And I don't find humans to be superior to a lot of animals and find

some of them just about as dumb as chickens, sheep and turkeys.

>

> Did you ever wonder about the poor critter that is hit on the side

of the road or the bird that flies into a window? We do rescues. We

go out and fetch the little guys and either rehab them or take them

to specialists.

>

> Some we actually take in and give them a happy life until they die

of old age. Horses, donkeys, goats, sheep, chickens, turkeys, geese,

ducks, lizards, raptures, turtles, fish, cats, dogs, etc. We've been

doing this for over 30 years.

>

> Not cruel, just realistic.

>

> Lynda

> -

> Taga Sickler

>

> Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:21 PM

> Re: Question Aboot Chickens

>

>

> I completely disagree,

> I think it would matter if they became extinct. It would speak

volumes of our complete lack of compassion and indifference.

>

> why do we bend over backwards to save some species and others

not. Most of the animals that are endangered are directly caused

by humans.

> therefore, it is also OUR responsibility to preserve them,

especially because we stole their habitat in the first place.

>

> Chickens have no defense from us. they can't bite, and can't

really fly away. If anything we owe them more than lets say an

endangered butterfly. We F** & ked up their natural lifestyle and

habitat in the first place.

>

> I also disagree that they are stupid. We are judging them by

our kind of intelligence. In many ways, I honestly don't feel

superior to (non-human) animals. There is a lot that scientists

still don't know about how animals communicate.

>

> what to us is a cluck, to them is a very specific language,

telling each other, where the food is, what kind of food it is,

and how much food there is.

>

> -anouk

>

> -

> Lynda

>

> 5/5/2005 4:06:29 PM

> Re: Question Aboot Chickens

>

>

> Nope, wouldn't matter in the least and around here the bobcats

and mountain

> lions and coyotes would be in hog heaven! In fact, I'm sure

they'd send out

> an engraved invitation for folks to cut all kinds of critters

loose!

>

> Could we live without critters in the fields? Sure. However,

the fields

> wouldn't be all that bare. We have wild turkeys that saunter

around

> squawking up a storm plus enough pigeons (which aren't

domesticated, btw,

> they are wild critters and migratory) to darken the sky

sometimes. Oh, plus

> the occasional bear but they are pretty good at hiding. And we

watch the

> jack rabbits (not cotton tail, pet type rabbits) and squirrels

and ground

> squirrels and chipmunks.

>

> Although there isn't anything cuter than a couple of kids

climbing trees and

> sneaking up on unsuspecting humans!

>

> Lynda

> -

> Jo Cwazy <heart work@c...>

>

> Thursday, May 05, 2005 10:36 AM

> Re: Question Aboot Chickens

>

>

> > Domesticated farm chickens live outside here when allowed

to. Would it

> > matter if they became extinct? Should they exist only to

please the human

> > palate and eye? Could we live without seeing animals in

fields?

> >

> > Jo

To send an email to -

 

>

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

 

>

>

>

> --

----------

>

[Guest guest]

I'd definitely approve of the cat bell :-)

 

Jo

 

, " Jeff " <jeffdevine8> wrote:

> Then I guess I'd better get off my skinny ass and find myself some

> bells for my cats to wear! And a different cat food!

[Guest guest]

*Rescue* animals. Decided long ago that to do rescues one must know how to

care for them and what makes them tick. Started doing rescues in 1965.

 

And the sociology class was about devient behavior in humans. Our research

project showed that the behaviors weren't human characteristics but rather

animals in general characteristics which humans had taken to the next level.

 

I also do geneology and research into inherited factors such as color.

Started that research because of melenomas in gray horses we had rescued,

lethal white in horses and dogs and inherited factors for melenomas in

humans because of my cousin's daughters who had a similar melanomas.

 

35 years ago we showed horses which started with an Arab stallion we rescued

(he weighed in at less than 600 pounds and should have weighed over 1000).

When he reached his ideal weight, it turned out that we had an exceptionally

beautiful animal who had been a show horse.

 

Interests and studies have followed a domino effect pattern. When we

rescued Mah-Riif, I didn't know much about livestock nutrition so I took

classes at the ag department at the local college. He died several year

later of Blackleg, a cattle disease. So then I took classes and read books

on diseases that cross species.

 

And so forth and so on.

 

Lynda

-

heartwerk <heartwork

 

Friday, May 06, 2005 4:33 AM

Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

 

> Lynda - you seem to know such a lot about animal behaviour - do you

> farm animals?

>

> Jo

[Guest guest]

If one of the chickens had become wounded (scratched by the wire, etc.), the

chickens would have attacked that chicken and killed it. Chicks are the

ones who are more likely to gang up on and kill a chick that is different

(put a black chick in with a whole group of white chicks or a white chick in

with a whole group of black chicks).

 

It is a chicken thing, not a crowding thing. Most factory farm chickens

(egg) are individually caged.

 

Lynda

-

heartwerk <heartwork

 

Friday, May 06, 2005 4:39 AM

Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

 

> Our school caretaker used to keep some chickens (obviously this is 50

> years ago) beside the school playground. They had a big area

> surrounded by chicken wire, and a covered area for roosting. In the

> same era, my neighbour also kept chickens in a similar area at the

> end of his large garden. They were not overcrowded in either place.

> I used to be very interested in these chickens, both at school and at

> home. None of them were ever attacked by the other chickens - their

> eyes etc. remained intact.

>

> Maybe the attacking takes place when they are too crowded, as in

> modern factory farming, which is normal to all animals, including

> humans (more aggressive crime in cities etc.).

>

> Jo

[Guest guest]

chickens wouldn't become extinct because they exist in the wild..jungle fowl

wot you'd lose is breeds..

the only reason these breeds exist is to satisfy some craving of humans Taga Sickler May 5, 2005 9:21 PM Re: Question Aboot Chickens

I completely disagree,

I think it would matter if they became extinct. It would speak volumes of our complete lack of compassion and indifference.

 

why do we bend over backwards to save some species and others not. Most of the animals that are endangered are directly caused by humans.

therefore, it is also OUR responsibility to preserve them, especially because we stole their habitat in the first place.

 

Chickens have no defense from us. they can't bite, and can't really fly away. If anything we owe them more than lets say an endangered butterfly. We F** & ked up their natural lifestyle and habitat in the first place.

 

I also disagree that they are stupid. We are judging them by our kind of intelligence. In many ways, I honestly don't feel superior to (non-human) animals. There is a lot that scientists still don't know about how animals communicate.

 

what to us is a cluck, to them is a very specific language, telling each other, where the food is, what kind of food it is, and how much food there is.

 

-anouk

And Bugs Bunny is a friend of mine

Eating him I'd feel like Frankenstein

Eating flesh seems pretty foul to me

[Guest guest]

generally only if they are cooped up together and bored...

give them space, and vent pecking drops waaaay off

 

 

Pigs quite frequently exhibit cannabalistic characteristics just like chickens. If you put a white chick in with a whole group of red or black chicks the others will peck it to death. Same with feral pigs.

 

Amazing what one learns in a sociology study <g>

 

Lynda

 

-

fraggle

Thursday, May 05, 2005 8:22 AM

Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

and it gets me sooo far...

 

*whsiper*

i use to have an infatuation with chickens as a wee fraggle...

no..not in that way..pervys

 

shall we talk about how quickly a half ton domestic pig can go feral in like 2 generations? and be this brown spotted furry critter that zips thru the forest?

 

oh....

and happy cinco de myo all

cheers

fraggle metalscarab May 5, 2005 7:46 AM Re: Question Aboot Chickens Hi Fraggle> the *modern* chicken has spent untold generations being bred for> certain qualities... it is descended from the jungle fowl of SE Asia,Once again, you astound me with your vast array of information!!!! :-)BBPeterTo send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

i agree with ya

up to a point

 

i've rescued and raised a whole slew of chickens over the years

 

some are dumber then rocks

some are incredibly intelligent

 

just like any other critter..including people

 

and..they weren't exactly bred for intelligence

 

as for them being cannibalistic, and smothering...

thats generally when they have no space...hard to smother if they aren't cooped up

cannibalism is generally a case of boredom..one poor bird gets its vent pecked, and soon all the birds are joining in...

it's called a pecking order for a reason

but..in general, if the birds are given room to roam, then it isn't aproblem, as the critter on the lowest rung can escape and go hide fer a bit...

if they are caged...then the birds are bored, and the poor unfortunate one has no place to go Lynda May 5, 2005 11:54 PM Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

You want humans to continue to unnaturally breed animals?

 

I strongly disagree that it is our responsibility to preserve something we invented. But we certainly didn't steal their habitat because they never had any.

 

Animals that are endangered weren't "invented" by man for his pleasure.

 

BTW, chickens do bite and they have spurs and you really don't want to tangle with an angry rooster!

 

All we owe species we invented is a retirement community where they get to live out their lives in peace. When those species end, they end.

 

And, I'm afraid that chickens are rather stupid. They will peck each other to death, they will climb onto each other and smother the ones on the bottom who will not even try to get out from under the pile and just lay down and die. They are cannibals which is kind of nasty. They'll peck another to death if they have so much as a spot of blood on them. They'll peck the eyeballs out of others because of the way the light hits their eyes (shiny object, peck it).

 

And I don't find humans to be superior to a lot of animals and find some of them just about as dumb as chickens, sheep and turkeys.

 

Did you ever wonder about the poor critter that is hit on the side of the road or the bird that flies into a window? We do rescues. We go out and fetch the little guys and either rehab them or take them to specialists.

 

Some we actually take in and give them a happy life until they die of old age. Horses, donkeys, goats, sheep, chickens, turkeys, geese, ducks, lizards, raptures, turtles, fish, cats, dogs, etc. We've been doing this for over 30 years.

 

Not cruel, just realistic.

 

Lynda

 

-

Taga Sickler

Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:21 PM

Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

I completely disagree,

I think it would matter if they became extinct. It would speak volumes of our complete lack of compassion and indifference.

 

why do we bend over backwards to save some species and others not. Most of the animals that are endangered are directly caused by humans.

therefore, it is also OUR responsibility to preserve them, especially because we stole their habitat in the first place.

 

Chickens have no defense from us. they can't bite, and can't really fly away. If anything we owe them more than lets say an endangered butterfly. We F** & ked up their natural lifestyle and habitat in the first place.

 

I also disagree that they are stupid. We are judging them by our kind of intelligence. In many ways, I honestly don't feel superior to (non-human) animals. There is a lot that scientists still don't know about how animals communicate.

 

what to us is a cluck, to them is a very specific language, telling each other, where the food is, what kind of food it is, and how much food there is.

 

-anouk

 

 

 

-

Lynda

 

5/5/2005 4:06:29 PM

Re: Question Aboot Chickens

Nope, wouldn't matter in the least and around here the bobcats and mountainlions and coyotes would be in hog heaven! In fact, I'm sure they'd send outan engraved invitation for folks to cut all kinds of critters loose!Could we live without critters in the fields? Sure. However, the fieldswouldn't be all that bare. We have wild turkeys that saunter aroundsquawking up a storm plus enough pigeons (which aren't domesticated, btw,they are wild critters and migratory) to darken the sky sometimes. Oh, plusthe occasional bear but they are pretty good at hiding. And we watch thejack rabbits (not cotton tail, pet type rabbits) and squirrels and groundsquirrels and chipmunks.Although there isn't anything cuter than a couple of kids climbing trees andsneaking up on unsuspecting humans!Lynda-Jo Cwazy <heart workThursday, May 05, 2005 10:36 AMRe: Question Aboot Chickens> Domesticated farm chickens live outside here when allowed to. Would it> matter if they became extinct? Should they exist only to please the human> palate and eye? Could we live without seeing animals in fields?>> JoTo send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to -

 

 

[Guest guest]

Lynda May 5, 2005 11:54 PM Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

 

You want humans to continue to unnaturally breed animals?

I never said that. to preserve a species is different than breeding it. the issue was saving from extinction, you said it wouldn't matter one bit if they became extinct and die off.

I disagree with this, regardless of how stupid You think they are, we should give them the space as they were originally meant to be, I really don't care about breeds, or what they look like, but it is our responsibility to save any species that is becoming extinct due to our own causes/behaviours.

and we have done them damage..... this conversation is really preposterous, since people aren't going to stop eating chickens tomorrow and as fraggle said they wouldn't become extinct.

 

I strongly disagree that it is our responsibility to preserve something we invented. But we certainly didn't steal their habitat because they never had any.

 

how could you say that they never had any habitat. Is land only for humans? they certainly didn't plop out of the sky.

 

Animals that are endangered weren't "invented" by man for his pleasure.

 

 

what difference does it make if the animal was invented/breed for us, if it is low in population, we should do our best to preserve it.

I say this, lucky the animal that man sees as cute, and pity the animal that man sees as food.

 

BTW, chickens do bite and they have spurs and you really don't want to tangle with an angry rooster!

 

doesn't stop their biggest predators, humans.

 

All we owe species we invented is a retirement community where they get to live out their lives in peace. When those species end, they end.

 

I say the same for people, when we end, we end, but look at all the space traveling links that Vijay sent. We are so desperate to preserve OURSELVES.

 

And, I'm afraid that chickens are rather stupid. They will peck each other to death, they will climb onto each other and smother the ones on the bottom who will not even try to get out from under the pile and just lay down and die. They are cannibals which is kind of nasty. They'll peck another to death if they have so much as a spot of blood on them. They'll peck the eyeballs out of others because of the way the light hits their eyes (shiny object, peck it).

 

And I don't find humans to be superior to a lot of animals and find some of them just about as dumb as chickens, sheep and turkeys.

 

 

Calling animals dumb is condescending, since they have a different intelligence.

 

Did you ever wonder about the poor critter that is hit on the side of the road or the bird that flies into a window? We do rescues. We go out and fetch the little guys and either rehab them or take them to specialists.

 

Some we actually take in and give them a happy life until they die of old age. Horses, donkeys, goats, sheep, chickens, turkeys, geese, ducks, lizards, raptures, turtles, fish, cats, dogs, etc. We've been doing this for over 30 years.

 

Not cruel, just realistic.

 

that's great, I am rehabilitating an opossum, he got hit by a car and he is still breathing. I hope he lives, I am looking at internet sites to see what I can do to make him more comfortable.

 

-anouk

 

-

Taga Sickler

Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:21 PM

Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

I completely disagree,

I think it would matter if they became extinct. It would speak volumes of our complete lack of compassion and indifference.

 

why do we bend over backwards to save some species and others not. Most of the animals that are endangered are directly caused by humans.

therefore, it is also OUR responsibility to preserve them, especially because we stole their habitat in the first place.

 

Chickens have no defense from us. they can't bite, and can't really fly away. If anything we owe them more than lets say an endangered butterfly. We F** & ked up their natural lifestyle and habitat in the first place.

 

I also disagree that they are stupid. We are judging them by our kind of intelligence. In many ways, I honestly don't feel superior to (non-human) animals. There is a lot that scientists still don't know about how animals communicate.

 

what to us is a cluck, to them is a very specific language, telling each other, where the food is, what kind of food it is, and how much food there is.

 

-anouk

 

 

 

-

Lynda

 

5/5/2005 4:06:29 PM

Re: Question Aboot Chickens

Nope, wouldn't matter in the least and around here the bobcats and mountainlions and coyotes would be in hog heaven! In fact, I'm sure they'd send outan engraved invitation for folks to cut all kinds of critters loose!Could we live without critters in the fields? Sure. However, the fieldswouldn't be all that bare. We have wild turkeys that saunter aroundsquawking up a storm plus enough pigeons (which aren't domesticated, btw,they are wild critters and migratory) to darken the sky sometimes. Oh, plusthe occasional bear but they are pretty good at hiding. And we watch thejack rabbits (not cotton tail, pet type rabbits) and squirrels and groundsquirrels and chipmunks.Although there isn't anything cuter than a couple of kids climbing trees andsneaking up on unsuspecting humans!Lynda-Jo Cwazy <heart workThursday, May 05, 2005 10:36 AMRe: Question Aboot Chickens> Domesticated farm chickens live outside here when allowed to. Would it> matter if they became extinct? Should they exist only to please the human> palate and eye? Could we live without seeing animals in fields?>> JoTo send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to -

 

 

[Guest guest]

I agree with Lynda. If by chance the whole world went vegan, and there

was no longer a need for livestock, then I say let them die off.. Just

stop breeding them. If someday, somebody wants to eat meat again, they

will just have to wait until they are domestocated again!

[Guest guest]

where'd you hear that?

its 5 to 10 per cage..

with the lights left on 17 hrs a day, to increase egg production Lynda May 6, 2005 9:09 AM Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens It is a chicken thing, not a crowding thing. Most factory farm chickens(egg) are individually caged.Lynda

And Bugs Bunny is a friend of mine

Eating him I'd feel like Frankenstein

Eating flesh seems pretty foul to me

[Guest guest]

Didn't hear it, I've seen it. We used to take our 4-H kids on tours so they'd see the reality. Individual white leghorns in little slots so they couldn't turn around. Food and water in front, shelf for eggs to roll onto behind. Lights on 20 hours of each day.

 

Puckaluma (otherwise known as Petaluma) was the hatchery capital of the world and had hundreds of acres of egg farms.

 

Lynda

 

-

fraggle

Friday, May 06, 2005 1:47 PM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

where'd you hear that?

its 5 to 10 per cage..

with the lights left on 17 hrs a day, to increase egg production Lynda May 6, 2005 9:09 AM Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens It is a chicken thing, not a crowding thing. Most factory farm chickens(egg) are individually caged.LyndaTo send an email to -

And Bugs Bunny is a friend of mine

Eating him I'd feel like Frankenstein

Eating flesh seems pretty foul to me

[Guest guest]

I have to disagree - I think it is a crowding thing. In my experience, when

chickens have enough room they do not attack each other. When they are

crowded they do - that is why they only need to debeak them when they are

kept in battery cages.

 

Jo

 

 

 

> If one of the chickens had become wounded (scratched by the wire, etc.),

the

> chickens would have attacked that chicken and killed it. Chicks are the

> ones who are more likely to gang up on and kill a chick that is different

> (put a black chick in with a whole group of white chicks or a white chick

in

> with a whole group of black chicks).

>

> It is a chicken thing, not a crowding thing. Most factory farm chickens

> (egg) are individually caged.

>

> Lynda

> -

> heartwerk <heartwork

>

> Friday, May 06, 2005 4:39 AM

> Re: Question Aboot Chickens

>

>

> > Our school caretaker used to keep some chickens (obviously this is 50

> > years ago) beside the school playground. They had a big area

> > surrounded by chicken wire, and a covered area for roosting. In the

> > same era, my neighbour also kept chickens in a similar area at the

> > end of his large garden. They were not overcrowded in either place.

> > I used to be very interested in these chickens, both at school and at

> > home. None of them were ever attacked by the other chickens - their

> > eyes etc. remained intact.

> >

> > Maybe the attacking takes place when they are too crowded, as in

> > modern factory farming, which is normal to all animals, including

> > humans (more aggressive crime in cities etc.).

> >

> > Jo

>

To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

seen it as well

industry norm is 5-10 birds per battery cage

and..turn around...nah..that'd waste valuable energy they could be using to pop out eggs.... Lynda May 6, 2005 2:09 PM Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

Didn't hear it, I've seen it. We used to take our 4-H kids on tours so they'd see the reality. Individual white leghorns in little slots so they couldn't turn around. Food and water in front, shelf for eggs to roll onto behind. Lights on 20 hours of each day.

 

Puckaluma (otherwise known as Petaluma) was the hatchery capital of the world and had hundreds of acres of egg farms.

 

Lynda

 

-

fraggle

Friday, May 06, 2005 1:47 PM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

where'd you hear that?

its 5 to 10 per cage..

with the lights left on 17 hrs a day, to increase egg production Lynda May 6, 2005 9:09 AM Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens It is a chicken thing, not a crowding thing. Most factory farm chickens(egg) are individually caged.LyndaTo send an email to - And Bugs Bunny is a friend of mine

Eating him I'd feel like Frankenstein

Eating flesh seems pretty foul to me

To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

have to agree with jo here

from wot i've read and seen in my own expereince, its overcrowding and stress that leads to peaking and cannibalism

 

i raised chickens as a wee fraggle..granted, there were only like one to two dozen at a time...not some huge hideous operation..but..i never ever had one die because of they got pecked to death... Jo Cwazy May 6, 2005 2:35 PM Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens I have to disagree - I think it is a crowding thing. In my experience, whenchickens have enough room they do not attack each other. When they arecrowded they do - that is why they only need to debeak them when they arekept in battery cages.Jo> If one of the chickens had become wounded (scratched by the wire, etc.),the> chickens would have attacked that chicken and killed it. Chicks are the> ones who are more likely to gang up on and kill a chick that is different> (put a black chick in with a whole group of white chicks or a white chickin> with a whole group of black chicks).>> It is a chicken thing, not a crowding thing. Most factory farm chickens> (egg) are individually caged.>> Lynda> -> heartwerk <heartwork> > Friday, May 06, 2005 4:39 AM> Re: Question Aboot Chickens>>> > Our school caretaker used to keep some chickens (obviously this is 50> > years ago) beside the school playground. They had a big area> > surrounded by chicken wire, and a covered area for roosting. In the> > same era, my neighbour also kept chickens in a similar area at the> > end of his large garden. They were not overcrowded in either place.> > I used to be very interested in these chickens, both at school and at> > home. None of them were ever attacked by the other chickens - their> > eyes etc. remained intact.> >> > Maybe the attacking takes place when they are too crowded, as in> > modern factory farming, which is normal to all animals, including> > humans (more aggressive crime in cities etc.).> >> > Jo>>>>>>>> To send an email to - >

[Guest guest]

Same here - my brother used to breed budgies when we were kids, and as long as they have enough room they don't get into serious fights (sometimes there's some pushing and name-calling :-) ). If they get too crowded they fight for their space, just the same as people do - it's like having kids in a car for a long journey!

 

Jo

 

-

fraggle

Friday, May 06, 2005 10:52 PM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

have to agree with jo here

from wot i've read and seen in my own expereince, its overcrowding and stress that leads to peaking and cannibalism

 

i raised chickens as a wee fraggle..granted, there were only like one to two dozen at a time...not some huge hideous operation..but..i never ever had one die because of they got pecked to death... Jo Cwazy May 6, 2005 2:35 PM Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens I have to disagree - I think it is a crowding thing. In my experience, whenchickens have enough room they do not attack each other. When they arecrowded they do - that is why they only need to debeak them when they arekept in battery cages.Jo> If one of the chickens had become wounded (scratched by the wire, etc.),the> chickens would have attacked that chicken and killed it. Chicks are the> ones who are more likely to gang up on and kill a chick that is different> (put a b lack chick in with a whole group of white chicks or a white chickin> with a whole group of black chicks).>> It is a chicken thing, not a crowding thing. Most factory farm chickens> (egg) are individually caged.>> Lynda> -> heartwerk <heartwork> > Friday, May 06, 2005 4:39 AM> Re: Question Aboot Chickens>>> > Our school caretaker used to keep some chickens (obviously this is 50> > years ago) beside the school playground. They had a big area> > surrounded by chicken wire, and a covered area for roosting. In the> > same era, my neighbour also kept chickens in a similar area at the> > end of his large garden. They were not overcrowded in either place.> > I used to be very intereste d in these chickens, both at school and at> > home. None of them were ever attacked by the other chickens - their> > eyes etc. remained intact.> >> > Maybe the attacking takes place when they are too crowded, as in> > modern factory farming, which is normal to all animals, including> > humans (more aggressive crime in cities etc.).> >> > Jo>>>>>>>> To send an email to - >

[Guest guest]

I dont fancy their odds. Its like when budgerigars escape from their cages, within a day they are dead, picked on by their wild cousins for being different. Bit like being a vegan really?! God knows how Fraggle survives on his rock!

 

The Valley Vegan.....Lynda <lurine wrote:

 

Banties still have the instincts to survive (flight and raising young). Fighting chickens are closer to the wild as are "Easter egg" chickens (I can never spell their name <g>). Again, they still have the "flight" (run away) instinct and the broody (setting eggs) and care of their young instincts. Chickens bred for meat are built too heavy to fly and thus wouldn't last long because they couldn't get up in the trees to survive predators. Also, chickens are rather stupid. Not quite as stupid as sheep and turkeys but pretty close.

 

The old joke about "why did the chicken cross the road." Well, the real answer is "he never made it because they keep waiting until cars come and end up a splotch on the road."

 

So, the answer is most would not but some would.

 

Lynda

 

-

Jeff May 4, 2005 6:35 PM Question Aboot Chickens It's to my understanding that the domesticated farm chicken doesn't have the survival skills to live in the wild. So if they weren't raised for meat or eggs would they be at risk of becoming extinct? Or were these chickens bred by humans and therefore not really meant to live in the wild?To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jo,

Are you saying then by the same token , that if your pet cat caught a mouse or a bird, that you would scold your cat and give it a stiff talking to for doing what comes naturally? It still has insticts.

I agree that what is happening in many bird populations is sad, but I think it has a lot to do with the lack of neutering/spaying in the first place. I think that both "owners", and local authorities have more to do in this area.

 

Charlie Says

 

The Valley Vegan......

Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

Cats - don't run and hide Fraggle :-)There are plenty of ferral cats around here, so they are quite capable ofliving in the wild. As they have to look after themselves they catch miceand birds to eat - fair enough. My personal opinion is that if you keepcats you can feed them and you should do everything you can to stop themkilling wild animals - bells on their collars etc. The wildbirds in Englandhave been decimated by the cat population. Obviously if everything wasnatural there would not be anywhere near as many cats as there are now andthe bird population would not be so affected.Jo-"Jeff" Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:25 PM Re: Question Aboot Chickens> Hey Fraggle>> Your pretty

smart! Thanx for the info. So basically is comes down to> the fact that "domesticated" animals have been bred by man from wild> animals. So like cows and cattle were probably buffalo and pigs were> boars and so on. Makes sense, but is this the case with cats? Like> would my cats be mountain lions or something if they weren't> domesticated? I have 2 cats and I let them go outside when ever they> want, eventhough there is the risk of gitting hit by a car, etc. I> live on a busy street. My rational is that cats are natural predetors> and should be given the freedom to roam and hunt. Or do you think I> have a responsibility for the safety of my cats by keeping them> indoors, since they are domesticated? Would you let your cats go> outside, even if it is taking a risk?>>>>>> To send an email to - >

Links>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Fraggle,

Ah Zebu, Can you say Dewflap?

 

The Valley Vegan.......Taga Sickler <zurumato wrote:

 

hi jeff,

 

two of my cats are hunters, the other one doesn't care for it.

I try to keep them indoors most of the time, but sometimes they bolt out.

when they do, they come back with dead things in their mouth.

 

I know that it is their instinct, but It really saddeneds me to see an animal die a slow painful death.

They usually piearce their canine teeths in their neck, but don't actually eat the animal, the result

is an agonizing wait till death comes,

 

I don't feel that this is humane, let alone vegan.

They have killed,

precious butterflies, lizards, birds, squirrels, snakes and frogs.

 

I raise frogs, hard it is to make it from tadpole to frog.

I feel upset when a snake is killed, just because my cat felt like hunting.

 

what's worse is that some of my neighbors let their cats out all of the time, since they climb fences, I find dead birds in my yard all of the time. Most birds mate for life.

 

I can't help you with the meowing problem, my cat does this too.

 

 

 

 

-

fraggle

 

5/5/2005 4:46:14 PM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

no..i just have hordes of useless information in my noggin

all domesticated animals came from something wild at one point..they didn't just *poof* into existence, but were bred for certain qualities we found pleasing/wanted

cows apparantly were domesticated on three seperate times in human history, in diverse parts of the world..the european auroch(now extinct), whih ranged from europe, across north africa and into asia is the main progenitor of *modern* cattle

in asia, they were domesticated with the addition of stock from the asiatic water buffalo (this breed was known as the zebu), and some other breeds i'm sure i'm forgetting..and in africa with the addtion of stock from the african water buffalo...

american bison and european bison have never been domesticated..

as for cats...no..sorry..not mountain lions....

cats mainly come from the Egyptian wild cat, with maybe some stock from the european wild cat(spanish wild cat, scottish wild cat, etc)...

 

and, as for letting yer cats run wild

well

1. you are responsible fer yer cats well being, as, would you let a 6 yr old run in traffic?

2. while its natural for cats to hunt and all that, remember, domesticated cats are not *natural*..sure, they can survive on their own...but...in the wild, nowhere would there be several hundred cats per small area, as there is in many neighborhoods today..soo..while tabby gets to go out and decimate the local wildlife population(be it birds, rodents, bunnies, wotever), they get to keep thier populations high because there is no check..we feed them...so, they really don't need to hunt..but they still do it...

so, in essence, by letting tabs run amok, you are helping to kill other critters out their needlessly...

my opinion of course

 

i'm sorta hypocrite, as my cat runs free..tho..i'm sorta stuck as

1. i have room mates..

2. trying to keep lickey inside was a full time job when it was just me and my ex(he would wait by the door when we come home so he could attempt to bolt out)

3. he doesn't seem to be much of a hunter..tho, alas, he has taken an interest in the mice in the compost bin....

 

if i had the choice..any cats part of my family would be inside....

 

fraggle Jeff May 5, 2005 1:25 PM Re: Question Aboot Chickens Hey FraggleYour pretty smart! Thanx for the info. So basically is comes down to the fact that "domesticated" animals have been bred by man from wild animals. So like cows and cattle were probably buffalo and pigs were boars and so on. Makes sense, but is this the case with cats? Like would my cats be mountain lions or something if they weren't domesticated? I have 2 cats and I let them go outside when ever they want, eventhough there is the risk of gitting hit by a car, etc. I live on a busy street. My rational is that cats are natural predetors and should be given the freedom to roam and hunt. Or do you think I have a responsibility for the safety of my

cats by keeping them indoors, since they are domesticated? Would you let your cats go outside, even if it is taking a risk?To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter (VV)

 

I don't have a pet cat, but, if I did, I would tell it off if it caught an animal. Children have lots of natural instincts - like hitting other children and stealing their toys, but we have to tell them off otherwise they don't know it is wrong.

 

Many of my friends have pet cats,and quite a few tell them off if they kill.

 

Jo

 

-

peter hurd

Saturday, May 07, 2005 3:07 PM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

Jo,

Are you saying then by the same token , that if your pet cat caught a mouse or a bird, that you would scold your cat and give it a stiff talking to for doing what comes naturally? It still has insticts.

I agree that what is happening in many bird populations is sad, but I think it has a lot to do with the lack of neutering/spaying in the first place. I think that both "owners", and local authorities have more to do in this area.

 

Charlie Says

 

The Valley Vegan......

Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

Cats - don't run and hide Fraggle :-)There are plenty of ferral cats around here, so they are quite capable ofliving in the wild. As they have to look after themselves they catch miceand birds to eat - fair enough. My personal opinion is that if you keepcats you can feed them and you should do everything you can to stop themkilling wild animals - bells on their collars etc. The wildbirds in Englandhave been decimated by the cat population. Obviously if everything wasnatural there would not be anywhere near as many cats as there are now andthe bird population would not be so affected.Jo-"Jeff" Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:25 PM Re: Question Aboot Chickens> Hey Fraggle>> Your pretty smart! Thanx for the info. So basically is comes down to> the fact that "domesticated" animals have been bred by man from wild> animals. So like cows and cattle were probably buffalo and pigs were> boars and so on. Makes sense, but is this the case with cats? Like> would my cats be mountain lions or something if they weren't> domesticated? I have 2 cats and I let them go outside when ever they> want, eventhough there is the risk of gitting hit by a car, etc. I> live on a busy street. My rational is that cats are natural predetors> and should be given the freedom to roam and hunt. Or do you think I> have a responsibility for the safety of my cats by keeping them> indoors, since they are domesticated? Would you let your cats go> outside, even if it is taking a risk?>>>>>> To send an email to - > Gro ups Links>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Sorry Jo,

Maybe I have more ( blind ) faith in human nature, but hitting other children and stealing their toys? - natural instinct?, no I dont think so.

Cats have ingrained survival instincts, stronger than humans and can revert to feral in 1 generation.

 

The Valley Vegan........Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

 

Hi Peter (VV)

 

I don't have a pet cat, but, if I did, I would tell it off if it caught an animal. Children have lots of natural instincts - like hitting other children and stealing their toys, but we have to tell them off otherwise they don't know it is wrong.

 

Many of my friends have pet cats,and quite a few tell them off if they kill.

 

Jo

 

-

peter hurd

Saturday, May 07, 2005 3:07 PM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

Jo,

Are you saying then by the same token , that if your pet cat caught a mouse or a bird, that you would scold your cat and give it a stiff talking to for doing what comes naturally? It still has insticts.

I agree that what is happening in many bird populations is sad, but I think it has a lot to do with the lack of neutering/spaying in the first place. I think that both "owners", and local authorities have more to do in this area.

 

Charlie Says

 

The Valley Vegan......

Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

Cats - don't run and hide Fraggle :-)There are plenty of ferral cats around here, so they are quite capable ofliving in the wild. As they have to look after themselves they catch miceand birds to eat - fair enough. My personal opinion is that if you keepcats you can feed them and you should do everything you can to stop themkilling wild animals - bells on their collars etc. The wildbirds in Englandhave been decimated by the cat population. Obviously if everything wasnatural there would not be anywhere near as many cats as there are now andthe bird population would not be so affected.Jo-"Jeff" Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:25 PM Re: Question Aboot Chickens> Hey Fraggle>> Your pretty

smart! Thanx for the info. So basically is comes down to> the fact that "domesticated" animals have been bred by man from wild> animals. So like cows and cattle were probably buffalo and pigs were> boars and so on. Makes sense, but is this the case with cats? Like> would my cats be mountain lions or something if they weren't> domesticated? I have 2 cats and I let them go outside when ever they> want, eventhough there is the risk of gitting hit by a car, etc. I> live on a busy street. My rational is that cats are natural predetors> and should be given the freedom to roam and hunt. Or do you think I> have a responsibility for the safety of my cats by keeping them> indoors, since they are domesticated? Would you let your cats go> outside, even if it is taking a risk?>>>>>> To send an email to - > Gro ups

Links>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

> Maybe I have more ( blind ) faith in human nature, but hitting other children and stealing their toys? - natural instinct?, no I

> dont think so.

 

What about chasing pigeons? That seems to be something that most children do by instinct!

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Nah, only some of them. Eldest wanted to catch one and bring it home (NOT!). Second didn't even look at them. Third didn't notice but since he never stopped running the goofy birds didn't know he wasn't chasing them. Fourth just watched them. Fifth paid no attention at all. Youngest tries to get them to stay still until she can walk up and feed them.

 

Of the couple of dozen "orphans" we've raised, only one chased the pigeons.

 

Lynda

 

-

Peter

Saturday, May 07, 2005 8:28 AM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

Hi Peter

 

> Maybe I have more ( blind ) faith in human nature, but hitting other children and stealing their toys? - natural instinct?, no I

> dont think so.

 

What about chasing pigeons? That seems to be something that most children do by instinct!

 

BB

PeterTo send an email to -

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

-

peter hurd

 

5/7/2005 11:27:10 AM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

Fraggle,

Ah Zebu, Can you say Dewflap?

 

The Valley Vegan.......Taga Sickler <zurumato wrote:

 

hi jeff,

 

two of my cats are hunters, the other one doesn't care for it.

I try to keep them indoors most of the time, but sometimes they bolt out.

when they do, they come back with dead things in their mouth.

 

I know that it is their instinct, but It really saddeneds me to see an animal die a slow painful death.

They usually piearce their canine teeths in their neck, but don't actually eat the animal, the result

is an agonizing wait till death comes,

 

I don't feel that this is humane, let alone vegan.

They have killed,

precious butterflies, lizards, birds, squirrels, snakes and frogs.

 

I raise frogs, hard it is to make it from tadpole to frog.

I feel upset when a snake is killed, just because my cat felt like hunting.

 

what's worse is that some of my neighbors let their cats out all of the time, since they climb fences, I find dead birds in my yard all of the time. Most birds mate for life.

 

I can't help you with the meowing problem, my cat does this too.

 

 

 

 

-

fraggle

 

5/5/2005 4:46:14 PM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

no..i just have hordes of useless information in my noggin

all domesticated animals came from something wild at one point..they didn't just *poof* into existence, but were bred for certain qualities we found pleasing/wanted

cows apparantly were domesticated on three seperate times in human history, in diverse parts of the world..the european auroch(now extinct), whih ranged from europe, across north africa and into asia is the main progenitor of *modern* cattle

in asia, they were domesticated with the addition of stock from the asiatic water buffalo (this breed was known as the zebu), and some other breeds i'm sure i'm forgetting..and in africa with the addtion of stock from the african water buffalo...

american bison and european bison have never been domesticated..

as for cats...no..sorry..not mountain lions....

cats mainly come from the Egyptian wild cat, with maybe some stock from the european wild cat(spanish wild cat, scottish wild cat, etc)...

 

and, as for letting yer cats run wild

well

1. you are responsible fer yer cats well being, as, would you let a 6 yr old run in traffic?

2. while its natural for cats to hunt and all that, remember, domesticated cats are not *natural*..sure, they can survive on their own...but...in the wild, nowhere would there be several hundred cats per small area, as there is in many neighborhoods today..soo..while tabby gets to go out and decimate the local wildlife population(be it birds, rodents, bunnies, wotever), they get to keep thier populations high because there is no check..we feed them...so, they really don't need to hunt..but they still do it...

so, in essence, by letting tabs run amok, you are helping to kill other critters out their needlessly...

my opinion of course

 

i'm sorta hypocrite, as my cat runs free..tho..i'm sorta stuck as

1. i have room mates..

2. trying to keep lickey inside was a full time job when it was just me and my ex(he would wait by the door when we come home so he could attempt to bolt out)

3. he doesn't seem to be much of a hunter..tho, alas, he has taken an interest in the mice in the compost bin....

 

if i had the choice..any cats part of my family would be inside....

 

fraggle Jeff May 5, 2005 1:25 PM Re: Question Aboot Chickens Hey FraggleYour pretty smart! Thanx for the info. So basically is comes down to the fact that "domesticated" animals have been bred by man from wild animals. So like cows and cattle were probably buffalo and pigs were boars and so on. Makes sense, but is this the case with cats? Like would my cats be mountain lions or something if they weren't domesticated? I have 2 cats and I let them go outside when ever they want, eventhough there is the risk of gitting hit by a car, etc. I live on a busy street. My rational is that cats are natural predetors and should be given the freedom to roam and hunt. Or do you think I have a responsibility for the safety of my cats by keeping them indoors, since they are domesticated? Would you let your cats go outside, even if it is taking a risk?To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

This is very sweet - what is it?

 

Jo

BB

 

-

Taga Sickler

Sunday, May 08, 2005 3:39 AM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

peter hurd

 

5/7/2005 11:27:10 AM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

Fraggle,

Ah Zebu, Can you say Dewflap?

 

The Valley Vegan.......Taga Sickler <zurumato wrote:

 

hi jeff,

 

two of my cats are hunters, the other one doesn't care for it.

I try to keep them indoors most of the time, but sometimes they bolt out.

when they do, they come back with dead things in their mouth.

 

I know that it is their instinct, but It really saddeneds me to see an animal die a slow painful death.

They usually piearce their canine teeths in their neck, but don't actually eat the animal, the result

is an agonizing wait till death comes,

 

I don't feel that this is humane, let alone vegan.

They have killed,

precious butterflies, lizards, birds, squirrels, snakes and frogs.

 

I raise frogs, hard it is to make it from tadpole to frog.

I feel upset when a snake is killed, just because my cat felt like hunting.

 

what's worse is that some of my neighbors let their cats out all of the time, since they climb fences, I find dead birds in my yard all of the time. Most birds mate for life.

 

I can't help you with the meowing problem, my cat does this too.

 

 

 

 

-

fraggle

 

5/5/2005 4:46:14 PM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

no..i just have hordes of useless information in my noggin

all domesticated animals came from something wild at one point..they didn't just *poof* into existence, but were bred for certain qualities we found pleasing/wanted

cows apparantly were domesticated on three seperate times in human history, in diverse parts of the world..the european auroch(now extinct), whih ranged from europe, across north africa and into asia is the main progenitor of *modern* cattle

in asia, they were domesticated with the addition of stock from the asiatic water buffalo (this breed was known as the zebu), and some other breeds i'm sure i'm forgetting..and in africa with the addtion of stock from the african water buffalo...

american bison and european bison have never been domesticated..

as for cats...no..sorry..not mountain lions....

cats mainly come from the Egyptian wild cat, with maybe some stock from the european wild cat(spanish wild cat, scottish wild cat, etc)...

 

and, as for letting yer cats run wild

well

1. you are responsible fer yer cats well being, as, would you let a 6 yr old run in traffic?

2. while its natural for cats to hunt and all that, remember, domesticated cats are not *natural*..sure, they can survive on their own...but...in the wild, nowhere would there be several hundred cats per small area, as there is in many neighborhoods today..soo..while tabby gets to go out and decimate the local wildlife population(be it birds, rodents, bunnies, wotever), they get to keep thier populations high because there is no check..we feed them...so, they really don't need to hunt..but they still do it...

so, in essence, by letting tabs run amok, you are helping to kill other critters out their needlessly...

my opinion of course

 

i'm sorta hypocrite, as my cat runs free..tho..i'm sorta stuck as

1. i have room mates..

2. trying to keep lickey inside was a full time job when it was just me and my ex(he would wait by the door when we come home so he could attempt to bolt out)

3. he doesn't seem to be much of a hunter..tho, alas, he has taken an interest in the mice in the compost bin....

 

if i had the choice..any cats part of my family would be inside....

 

fraggle Jeff May 5, 2005 1:25 PM Re: Question Aboot Chickens Hey FraggleYour pretty smart! Thanx for the info. So basically is comes down to the fact that "domesticated" animals have been bred by man from wild animals. So like cows and cattle were probably buffalo and pigs were boars and so on. Makes sense, but is this the case with cats? Like would my cats be mountain lions or something if they weren't domesticated? I have 2 cats and I let them go outside when ever they want, eventhough there is the risk of gitting hit by a car, etc. I live on a busy street. My rational is that cats are natural predetors and should be given the freedom to roam and hunt. Or do you think I have a responsibility for the safet y of my cats by keeping them indoors, since they are domesticated? Would you let your cats go outside, even if it is taking a risk?To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

hi jo,

 

I found this on the grass, outside of my house.

at first I didn't know what it was, I am a city person.

It was definately injured, it made a small whimpering noise when I picked him/her up.

I always have my camera with me so I took a picture. this is in the inside, in my butterfly/bee garden.

I put him in a little box with one of my baby's old blankets.

I did searches on the internet an found out that he is a baby Opossum or Possum.

they cling to their mother's back with their tail, and they can hang upside down.

 

I suspect this one fell of his mamas back and some dog or cat must've had him.

As you can see from the picture he's got a puncture wound, He is so tiny he fits in my hand.

Sometimes he would open his eyes and sip some water.

when my husband got home, we brought him/her to a wild animal hospital, which is called

The Pelican Man's Bird Santuary, they take care of wild creatures.

 

We gave them a small donation and they imediately warmed him up and gave him antibiotics.

That is where he is now.

I hope that he makes it. He is one of the creatures featured in the "pest removal" ads we get in the mail.

now I know who's been eating my strawberries : )

I am praying for him.

sometimes I don't believe in God.

Today I do.

 

 

 

 

 

-

Jo Cwazy

 

5/8/2005 7:24:41 AM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

This is very sweet - what is it?

 

Jo

BB

 

-

Taga Sickler

Sunday, May 08, 2005 3:39 AM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

peter hurd

 

5/7/2005 11:27:10 AM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

Fraggle,

Ah Zebu, Can you say Dewflap?

 

The Valley Vegan.......Taga Sickler <zurumato wrote:

 

hi jeff,

 

two of my cats are hunters, the other one doesn't care for it.

I try to keep them indoors most of the time, but sometimes they bolt out.

when they do, they come back with dead things in their mouth.

 

I know that it is their instinct, but It really saddeneds me to see an animal die a slow painful death.

They usually piearce their canine teeths in their neck, but don't actually eat the animal, the result

is an agonizing wait till death comes,

 

I don't feel that this is humane, let alone vegan.

They have killed,

precious butterflies, lizards, birds, squirrels, snakes and frogs.

 

I raise frogs, hard it is to make it from tadpole to frog.

I feel upset when a snake is killed, just because my cat felt like hunting.

 

what's worse is that some of my neighbors let their cats out all of the time, since they climb fences, I find dead birds in my yard all of the time. Most birds mate for life.

 

I can't help you with the meowing problem, my cat does this too.

 

 

 

 

-

fraggle

 

5/5/2005 4:46:14 PM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

no..i just have hordes of useless information in my noggin

all domesticated animals came from something wild at one point..they didn't just *poof* into existence, but were bred for certain qualities we found pleasing/wanted

cows apparantly were domesticated on three seperate times in human history, in diverse parts of the world..the european auroch(now extinct), whih ranged from europe, across north africa and into asia is the main progenitor of *modern* cattle

in asia, they were domesticated with the addition of stock from the asiatic water buffalo (this breed was known as the zebu), and some other breeds i'm sure i'm forgetting..and in africa with the addtion of stock from the african water buffalo...

american bison and european bison have never been domesticated..

as for cats...no..sorry..not mountain lions....

cats mainly come from the Egyptian wild cat, with maybe some stock from the european wild cat(spanish wild cat, scottish wild cat, etc)...

 

and, as for letting yer cats run wild

well

1. you are responsible fer yer cats well being, as, would you let a 6 yr old run in traffic?

2. while its natural for cats to hunt and all that, remember, domesticated cats are not *natural*..sure, they can survive on their own...but...in the wild, nowhere would there be several hundred cats per small area, as there is in many neighborhoods today..soo..while tabby gets to go out and decimate the local wildlife population(be it birds, rodents, bunnies, wotever), they get to keep thier populations high because there is no check..we feed them...so, they really don't need to hunt..but they still do it...

so, in essence, by letting tabs run amok, you are helping to kill other critters out their needlessly...

my opinion of course

 

i'm sorta hypocrite, as my cat runs free..tho..i'm sorta stuck as

1. i have room mates..

2. trying to keep lickey inside was a full time job when it was just me and my ex(he would wait by the door when we come home so he could attempt to bolt out)

3. he doesn't seem to be much of a hunter..tho, alas, he has taken an interest in the mice in the compost bin....

 

if i had the choice..any cats part of my family would be inside....

 

fraggle Jeff May 5, 2005 1:25 PM Re: Question Aboot Chickens Hey FraggleYour pretty smart! Thanx for the info. So basically is comes down to the fact that "domesticated" animals have been bred by man from wild animals. So like cows and cattle were probably buffalo and pigs were boars and so on. Makes sense, but is this the case with cats? Like would my cats be mountain lions or something if they weren't domesticated? I have 2 cats and I let them go outside when ever they want, eventhough there is the risk of gitting hit by a car, etc. I live on a busy street. My rational is that cats are natural predetors and should be given the freedom to roam and hunt. Or do you think I have a responsibility for the safet y of my cats by keeping them indoors, since they are domesticated? Would you let your cats go outside, even if it is taking a risk?To send an email to -