Question Aboot Chickens

[Guest guest]

It's to my understanding that the domesticated farm chicken doesn't

have the survival skills to live in the wild. So if they weren't

raised for meat or eggs would they be at risk of becoming extinct? Or

were these chickens bred by humans and therefore not really meant to

live in the wild?

[Guest guest]

the *modern* chicken has spent untold generations being bred for certain qualities...

it is descended from the jungle fowl of SE Asia, which still exists...

modern chickens are bred for wotever quality was/is desired...egg production, flesh, etc and so forth..

there are a large number of breeds, but, most factory farmed fowl are only a very limited number of breeds..."dual use" birds are in much less demand then some poor bird which has been created to just pile out eggs

as for if they would survive in the *wild*

depends on what you mean...

most modern birds have had the urge to lay and nest on their eggs breed out of them(its called broodiness)

but...

1. the ancestor of the modern chicken is still alive and doing fine

2. it doesn't take much to *re-activate* dormant genes

again..what are you looking for? there aren't going to be flocks of buff orpingtons, leghorns, or rhode island reds running about..as those aren't species, but breeds...

many places have semi-wild chickens running about anyways..doesn't take much...go to almost any of the carribean islands(well..at least the ones i've been tooo), there use to be some *wild* chickens in certain neighborhoods in berkeley, there are wild *chickens* all over the San diego zoo, etc and so forth..

many critters that we've bred up for our uses/needs/desires can slide back to their ancestors profiles in a couple short generations....pigs, pigeons...dogs....

let lose some *pure bred* german shepards and saint bernards...and soon you'll end up with a tan *mutt* which will look sorta like a dingo or an asiatc wolf

 

cheers

fraggle Jeff May 4, 2005 6:35 PM Question Aboot Chickens It's to my understanding that the domesticated farm chicken doesn't have the survival skills to live in the wild. So if they weren't raised for meat or eggs would they be at risk of becoming extinct? Or were these chickens bred by humans and therefore not really meant to live in the wild?To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Fraggle

 

> the *modern* chicken has spent untold generations being bred for

> certain qualities... it is descended from the jungle fowl of SE Asia,

 

Once again, you astound me with your vast array of information!!!! :-)

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

and it gets me sooo far...

 

*whsiper*

i use to have an infatuation with chickens as a wee fraggle...

no..not in that way..pervys

 

shall we talk about how quickly a half ton domestic pig can go feral in like 2 generations? and be this brown spotted furry critter that zips thru the forest?

 

oh....

and happy cinco de myo all

cheers

fraggle metalscarab May 5, 2005 7:46 AM Re: Question Aboot Chickens Hi Fraggle> the *modern* chicken has spent untold generations being bred for> certain qualities... it is descended from the jungle fowl of SE Asia,Once again, you astound me with your vast array of information!!!! :-)BBPeterTo send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Banties still have the instincts to survive (flight and raising young). Fighting chickens are closer to the wild as are "Easter egg" chickens (I can never spell their name <g>). Again, they still have the "flight" (run away) instinct and the broody (setting eggs) and care of their young instincts. Chickens bred for meat are built too heavy to fly and thus wouldn't last long because they couldn't get up in the trees to survive predators. Also, chickens are rather stupid. Not quite as stupid as sheep and turkeys but pretty close.

 

The old joke about "why did the chicken cross the road." Well, the real answer is "he never made it because they keep waiting until cars come and end up a splotch on the road."

 

So, the answer is most would not but some would.

 

Lynda

 

-

Jeff May 4, 2005 6:35 PM Question Aboot Chickens It's to my understanding that the domesticated farm chicken doesn't have the survival skills to live in the wild. So if they weren't raised for meat or eggs would they be at risk of becoming extinct? Or were these chickens bred by humans and therefore not really meant to live in the wild?To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

arucanas

and..it depends..

i've rescued many many chickens over the years....

some were as bright as a burnt out x-mas bulb...others were highly intelligent..more so then many ppl...

as for flight...again..depends..i had a bunch who would roost up in the walnut tree behind my old haus..and they were mostly crosslinks, as well as some bigger birds...

tho, the bantams had the easiest of it all

 

again..look at em as dogs....

would a chihuahua er sharpei survive on its on as well as say, a labrador? depends on the circumstances..but prolly not

but....

who is asking to release chickens into the wild..they aren't wild...they have spent several thousand years being domesticated....

i wouldn't *free* someone from san francisco into the wilds of new guinea either.... Lynda May 5, 2005 9:00 AM Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

Banties still have the instincts to survive (flight and raising young). Fighting chickens are closer to the wild as are "Easter egg" chickens (I can never spell their name <g>). Again, they still have the "flight" (run away) instinct and the broody (setting eggs) and care of their young instincts. Chickens bred for meat are built too heavy to fly and thus wouldn't last long because they couldn't get up in the trees to survive predators. Also, chickens are rather stupid. Not quite as stupid as sheep and turkeys but pretty close.

 

The old joke about "why did the chicken cross the road." Well, the real answer is "he never made it because they keep waiting until cars come and end up a splotch on the road."

 

So, the answer is most would not but some would.

 

Lynda

 

-

Jeff May 4, 2005 6:35 PM Question Aboot Chickens It's to my understanding that the domesticated farm chicken doesn't have the survival skills to live in the wild. So if they weren't raised for meat or eggs would they be at risk of becoming extinct? Or were these chickens bred by humans and therefore not really meant to live in the wild?To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Domesticated farm chickens live outside here when allowed to. Would it

matter if they became extinct? Should they exist only to please the human

palate and eye? Could we live without seeing animals in fields?

 

Jo

 

 

> It's to my understanding that the domesticated farm chicken doesn't

> have the survival skills to live in the wild. So if they weren't

> raised for meat or eggs would they be at risk of becoming extinct? Or

> were these chickens bred by humans and therefore not really meant to

> live in the wild?

>

To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

Nope, wouldn't matter in the least and around here the bobcats and mountain

lions and coyotes would be in hog heaven! In fact, I'm sure they'd send out

an engraved invitation for folks to cut all kinds of critters loose!

 

Could we live without critters in the fields? Sure. However, the fields

wouldn't be all that bare. We have wild turkeys that saunter around

squawking up a storm plus enough pigeons (which aren't domesticated, btw,

they are wild critters and migratory) to darken the sky sometimes. Oh, plus

the occasional bear but they are pretty good at hiding. And we watch the

jack rabbits (not cotton tail, pet type rabbits) and squirrels and ground

squirrels and chipmunks.

 

Although there isn't anything cuter than a couple of kids climbing trees and

sneaking up on unsuspecting humans!

 

Lynda

-

Jo Cwazy <heartwork

 

Thursday, May 05, 2005 10:36 AM

Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

 

> Domesticated farm chickens live outside here when allowed to. Would it

> matter if they became extinct? Should they exist only to please the human

> palate and eye? Could we live without seeing animals in fields?

>

> Jo

[Guest guest]

I'm not advocating setting animals loose - but it would be possible for

farmers to stop breeding them. There are lots to look at around here too -

Canada geese, white geese, herons, swans, ducks, rabbits, foxes and deer, so

it's not like the fields would be empty. Of course, it would be good if the

fields that had been used for animals could be returned to being woods.

Thankfully we don't have too many fierce animals here :-)

 

Jo

-

" Lynda " <lurine

 

Thursday, May 05, 2005 8:54 PM

Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

 

> Nope, wouldn't matter in the least and around here the bobcats and

mountain

> lions and coyotes would be in hog heaven! In fact, I'm sure they'd send

out

> an engraved invitation for folks to cut all kinds of critters loose!

>

> Could we live without critters in the fields? Sure. However, the fields

> wouldn't be all that bare. We have wild turkeys that saunter around

> squawking up a storm plus enough pigeons (which aren't domesticated, btw,

> they are wild critters and migratory) to darken the sky sometimes. Oh,

plus

> the occasional bear but they are pretty good at hiding. And we watch the

> jack rabbits (not cotton tail, pet type rabbits) and squirrels and ground

> squirrels and chipmunks.

>

> Although there isn't anything cuter than a couple of kids climbing trees

and

> sneaking up on unsuspecting humans!

>

> Lynda

> -

> Jo Cwazy <heartwork

>

> Thursday, May 05, 2005 10:36 AM

> Re: Question Aboot Chickens

>

>

> > Domesticated farm chickens live outside here when allowed to. Would it

> > matter if they became extinct? Should they exist only to please the

human

> > palate and eye? Could we live without seeing animals in fields?

> >

> > Jo

>

To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Fraggle

 

Your pretty smart! Thanx for the info. So basically is comes down to

the fact that " domesticated " animals have been bred by man from wild

animals. So like cows and cattle were probably buffalo and pigs were

boars and so on. Makes sense, but is this the case with cats? Like

would my cats be mountain lions or something if they weren't

domesticated? I have 2 cats and I let them go outside when ever they

want, eventhough there is the risk of gitting hit by a car, etc. I

live on a busy street. My rational is that cats are natural predetors

and should be given the freedom to roam and hunt. Or do you think I

have a responsibility for the safety of my cats by keeping them

indoors, since they are domesticated? Would you let your cats go

outside, even if it is taking a risk?

[Guest guest]

Cats - don't run and hide Fraggle :-)

 

There are plenty of ferral cats around here, so they are quite capable of

living in the wild. As they have to look after themselves they catch mice

and birds to eat - fair enough. My personal opinion is that if you keep

cats you can feed them and you should do everything you can to stop them

killing wild animals - bells on their collars etc. The wildbirds in England

have been decimated by the cat population. Obviously if everything was

natural there would not be anywhere near as many cats as there are now and

the bird population would not be so affected.

 

Jo

 

-

" Jeff " <jeffdevine8

 

Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:25 PM

Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

 

> Hey Fraggle

>

> Your pretty smart! Thanx for the info. So basically is comes down to

> the fact that " domesticated " animals have been bred by man from wild

> animals. So like cows and cattle were probably buffalo and pigs were

> boars and so on. Makes sense, but is this the case with cats? Like

> would my cats be mountain lions or something if they weren't

> domesticated? I have 2 cats and I let them go outside when ever they

> want, eventhough there is the risk of gitting hit by a car, etc. I

> live on a busy street. My rational is that cats are natural predetors

> and should be given the freedom to roam and hunt. Or do you think I

> have a responsibility for the safety of my cats by keeping them

> indoors, since they are domesticated? Would you let your cats go

> outside, even if it is taking a risk?

>

>

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

no..i just have hordes of useless information in my noggin

all domesticated animals came from something wild at one point..they didn't just *poof* into existence, but were bred for certain qualities we found pleasing/wanted

cows apparantly were domesticated on three seperate times in human history, in diverse parts of the world..the european auroch(now extinct), whih ranged from europe, across north africa and into asia is the main progenitor of *modern* cattle

in asia, they were domesticated with the addition of stock from the asiatic water buffalo (this breed was known as the zebu), and some other breeds i'm sure i'm forgetting..and in africa with the addtion of stock from the african water buffalo...

american bison and european bison have never been domesticated..

as for cats...no..sorry..not mountain lions....

cats mainly come from the Egyptian wild cat, with maybe some stock from the european wild cat(spanish wild cat, scottish wild cat, etc)...

 

and, as for letting yer cats run wild

well

1. you are responsible fer yer cats well being, as, would you let a 6 yr old run in traffic?

2. while its natural for cats to hunt and all that, remember, domesticated cats are not *natural*..sure, they can survive on their own...but...in the wild, nowhere would there be several hundred cats per small area, as there is in many neighborhoods today..soo..while tabby gets to go out and decimate the local wildlife population(be it birds, rodents, bunnies, wotever), they get to keep thier populations high because there is no check..we feed them...so, they really don't need to hunt..but they still do it...

so, in essence, by letting tabs run amok, you are helping to kill other critters out their needlessly...

my opinion of course

 

i'm sorta hypocrite, as my cat runs free..tho..i'm sorta stuck as

1. i have room mates..

2. trying to keep lickey inside was a full time job when it was just me and my ex(he would wait by the door when we come home so he could attempt to bolt out)

3. he doesn't seem to be much of a hunter..tho, alas, he has taken an interest in the mice in the compost bin....

 

if i had the choice..any cats part of my family would be inside....

 

fraggle Jeff May 5, 2005 1:25 PM Re: Question Aboot Chickens Hey FraggleYour pretty smart! Thanx for the info. So basically is comes down to the fact that "domesticated" animals have been bred by man from wild animals. So like cows and cattle were probably buffalo and pigs were boars and so on. Makes sense, but is this the case with cats? Like would my cats be mountain lions or something if they weren't domesticated? I have 2 cats and I let them go outside when ever they want, eventhough there is the risk of gitting hit by a car, etc. I live on a busy street. My rational is that cats are natural predetors and should be given the freedom to roam and hunt. Or do you think I have a responsibility for the safety of my cats by keeping them indoors, since they are domesticated? Would you let your cats go outside, even if it is taking a risk?To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

heh

i luv cats jo..

i just take issue with the newbies using my spinach as a litter box and diggin up me garlic tis all

Jo Cwazy May 5, 2005 1:38 PM Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens Cats - don't run and hide Fraggle :-)There are plenty of ferral cats around here, so they are quite capable ofliving in the wild. As they have to look after themselves they catch miceand birds to eat - fair enough. My personal opinion is that if you keepcats you can feed them and you should do everything you can to stop themkilling wild animals - bells on their collars etc. The wildbirds in Englandhave been decimated by the cat population. Obviously if everything wasnatural there would not be anywhere near as many cats as there are now andthe bird population would not be so affected.Jo

And Bugs Bunny is a friend of mine

Eating him I'd feel like Frankenstein

Eating flesh seems pretty foul to me

[Guest guest]

I know you do Fraggle - but you know I always have an answer on the cat question - I thought you might think 'here we go again'. :-)

 

Although I am not a cat fan (I'm a bird fan) I wouldn't wish them any harm, as you know.

 

Jo

 

-

fraggle

Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:48 PM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

heh

i luv cats jo..

i just take issue with the newbies using my spinach as a litter box and diggin up me garlic tis all

Jo Cwazy May 5, 2005 1:38 PM Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens Cats - don't run and hide Fraggle :-)There are plenty of ferral cats around here, so they are quite capable ofliving in the wild. As they have to look after themselves they catch miceand birds to eat - fair enough. My personal opinion is that if you keepcats you can feed them and you should do everything you can to stop themkilling wild animals - bells on their collars etc. The wildbirds in Englandhave been decimated by the cat population. Obviously if everything wasnatural there would not be anywhere near as many cats as there are now andthe bird population would not be so affected.JoTo send an email to -

And Bugs Bunny is a friend of mine

Eating him I'd feel like Frankenstein

Eating flesh seems pretty foul to me

[Guest guest]

I suppose it depends on who I'm discussing it with. I get cross with people who have cats and don't look after them properly, and who don't safeguard the local animal population as much as possible (I know it's difficult).

 

I'll never forget my neighbour - her cat kept crapping under my window and flattening plants, eating the baby birds etc. because it was outside all the time - when the poor thing got flattened by a car she asked me to come and pick it up and carry it home for her! which I did.

 

BBJo

 

-

fraggle

Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:54 PM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

you have mellowed out on the cat issue

hee hee Jo Cwazy May 5, 2005 1:54 PM Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

I know you do Fraggle - but you know I always have an answer on the cat question - I thought you might think 'here we go again'. :-)

 

Although I am not a cat fan (I'm a bird fan) I wouldn't wish them any harm, as you know.

 

Jo

 

-

fraggle

Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:48 PM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

heh

i luv cats jo..

i just take issue with the newbies using my spinach as a litter box and diggin up me garlic tis all

Jo Cwazy May 5, 2005 1:38 PM Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens Cats - don't run and hide Fraggle :-)There are plenty of ferral cats around here, so they are quite capable ofliving in the wild. As they have to look after themselves they catch miceand birds to eat - fair enough. My personal opinion is that if you keepcats you can feed them and you should do everything you can to stop themkilling wild animals - bells on their collars etc. The wildbirds in Englandhave been decimated by the cat population. Obviously if everything wasnatural there would not be anywhere near as many cats as there are now andthe bird population would not be so affected.JoTo send an email to - And Bugs Bunny is a friend of mine

Eating him I'd feel like Frankenstein

Eating flesh seems pretty foul to me

To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

as you said Jo,

 

I wouldn't wish harm on cats but here in Australia they just don't belong all of our wild life has evolved without predators (except in the north) and really have no defence against cats , wild dogs etc.. dogs are just a touch easier to control than cats

Craig

On Behalf Of Jo CwazyFriday, May 06, 2005 4:54 AM Subject: Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

I know you do Fraggle - but you know I always have an answer on the cat question - I thought you might think 'here we go again'. :-)

 

Although I am not a cat fan (I'm a bird fan) I wouldn't wish them any harm, as you know.

 

Jo

 

-

fraggle

Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:48 PM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

heh

i luv cats jo..

i just take issue with the newbies using my spinach as a litter box and diggin up me garlic tis all

Jo Cwazy May 5, 2005 1:38 PM Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens Cats - don't run and hide Fraggle :-)There are plenty of ferral cats around here, so they are quite capable ofliving in the wild. As they have to look after themselves they catch miceand birds to eat - fair enough. My personal opinion is that if you keepcats you can feed them and you should do everything you can to stop themkilling wild animals - bells on their collars etc. The wildbirds in Englandhave been decimated by the cat population. Obviously if everything wasnatural there would not be anywhere near as many cats as there are now andthe bird population would not be so affected.JoTo send an email to - And Bugs Bunny is a friend of mine

Eating him I'd feel like Frankenstein

Eating flesh seems pretty foul to meTo send an email to -

[Guest guest]

hi jeff,

 

two of my cats are hunters, the other one doesn't care for it.

I try to keep them indoors most of the time, but sometimes they bolt out.

when they do, they come back with dead things in their mouth.

 

I know that it is their instinct, but It really saddeneds me to see an animal die a slow painful death.

They usually piearce their canine teeths in their neck, but don't actually eat the animal, the result

is an agonizing wait till death comes,

 

I don't feel that this is humane, let alone vegan.

They have killed,

precious butterflies, lizards, birds, squirrels, snakes and frogs.

 

I raise frogs, hard it is to make it from tadpole to frog.

I feel upset when a snake is killed, just because my cat felt like hunting.

 

what's worse is that some of my neighbors let their cats out all of the time, since they climb fences, I find dead birds in my yard all of the time. Most birds mate for life.

 

I can't help you with the meowing problem, my cat does this too.

 

 

 

 

-

fraggle

 

5/5/2005 4:46:14 PM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

no..i just have hordes of useless information in my noggin

all domesticated animals came from something wild at one point..they didn't just *poof* into existence, but were bred for certain qualities we found pleasing/wanted

cows apparantly were domesticated on three seperate times in human history, in diverse parts of the world..the european auroch(now extinct), whih ranged from europe, across north africa and into asia is the main progenitor of *modern* cattle

in asia, they were domesticated with the addition of stock from the asiatic water buffalo (this breed was known as the zebu), and some other breeds i'm sure i'm forgetting..and in africa with the addtion of stock from the african water buffalo...

american bison and european bison have never been domesticated..

as for cats...no..sorry..not mountain lions....

cats mainly come from the Egyptian wild cat, with maybe some stock from the european wild cat(spanish wild cat, scottish wild cat, etc)...

 

and, as for letting yer cats run wild

well

1. you are responsible fer yer cats well being, as, would you let a 6 yr old run in traffic?

2. while its natural for cats to hunt and all that, remember, domesticated cats are not *natural*..sure, they can survive on their own...but...in the wild, nowhere would there be several hundred cats per small area, as there is in many neighborhoods today..soo..while tabby gets to go out and decimate the local wildlife population(be it birds, rodents, bunnies, wotever), they get to keep thier populations high because there is no check..we feed them...so, they really don't need to hunt..but they still do it...

so, in essence, by letting tabs run amok, you are helping to kill other critters out their needlessly...

my opinion of course

 

i'm sorta hypocrite, as my cat runs free..tho..i'm sorta stuck as

1. i have room mates..

2. trying to keep lickey inside was a full time job when it was just me and my ex(he would wait by the door when we come home so he could attempt to bolt out)

3. he doesn't seem to be much of a hunter..tho, alas, he has taken an interest in the mice in the compost bin....

 

if i had the choice..any cats part of my family would be inside....

 

fraggle Jeff May 5, 2005 1:25 PM Re: Question Aboot Chickens Hey FraggleYour pretty smart! Thanx for the info. So basically is comes down to the fact that "domesticated" animals have been bred by man from wild animals. So like cows and cattle were probably buffalo and pigs were boars and so on. Makes sense, but is this the case with cats? Like would my cats be mountain lions or something if they weren't domesticated? I have 2 cats and I let them go outside when ever they want, eventhough there is the risk of gitting hit by a car, etc. I live on a busy street. My rational is that cats are natural predetors and should be given the freedom to roam and hunt. Or do you think I have a responsibility for the safety of my cats by keeping them indoors, since they are domesticated? Would you let your cats go outside, even if it is taking a risk?To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I completely disagree,

I think it would matter if they became extinct. It would speak volumes of our complete lack of compassion and indifference.

 

why do we bend over backwards to save some species and others not. Most of the animals that are endangered are directly caused by humans.

therefore, it is also OUR responsibility to preserve them, especially because we stole their habitat in the first place.

 

Chickens have no defense from us. they can't bite, and can't really fly away. If anything we owe them more than lets say an endangered butterfly. We F** & ked up their natural lifestyle and habitat in the first place.

 

I also disagree that they are stupid. We are judging them by our kind of intelligence. In many ways, I honestly don't feel superior to (non-human) animals. There is a lot that scientists still don't know about how animals communicate.

 

what to us is a cluck, to them is a very specific language, telling each other, where the food is, what kind of food it is, and how much food there is.

 

-anouk

 

 

 

-

Lynda

 

5/5/2005 4:06:29 PM

Re: Question Aboot Chickens

Nope, wouldn't matter in the least and around here the bobcats and mountainlions and coyotes would be in hog heaven! In fact, I'm sure they'd send outan engraved invitation for folks to cut all kinds of critters loose!Could we live without critters in the fields? Sure. However, the fieldswouldn't be all that bare. We have wild turkeys that saunter aroundsquawking up a storm plus enough pigeons (which aren't domesticated, btw,they are wild critters and migratory) to darken the sky sometimes. Oh, plusthe occasional bear but they are pretty good at hiding. And we watch thejack rabbits (not cotton tail, pet type rabbits) and squirrels and groundsquirrels and chipmunks.Although there isn't anything cuter than a couple of kids climbing trees andsneaking up on unsuspecting humans!Lynda-Jo Cwazy <heartworkThursday, May 05, 2005 10:36 AMRe: Question Aboot Chickens> Domesticated farm chickens live outside here when allowed to. Would it> matter if they became extinct? Should they exist only to please the human> palate and eye? Could we live without seeing animals in fields?>> JoTo send an email to -

[Guest guest]

The domestic boar is killed as he has no defenses as his tusks were removed shortly after birth. The sows breed with the wild boars, or at least those that survive do. Piglets are more likely to survive than an adult pig. Durocs are more likely to survive than lard/bacon hogs (Cheshire Whites, Poland Whites, etc.). The Duroc is a leaner pig and more adaptable. Hamps, and Spotted, etc. are in the middle and may or may not survive. A lot of it, believe it or not, is based on color to begin with. White and brightly colored pigs are easy targets. The Duroc are red/brown and blend right along with the wild/feral pigs.

 

Pigs quite frequently exhibit cannabalistic characteristics just like chickens. If you put a white chick in with a whole group of red or black chicks the others will peck it to death. Same with feral pigs.

 

Amazing what one learns in a sociology study <g>

 

Lynda

 

-

fraggle

Thursday, May 05, 2005 8:22 AM

Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

and it gets me sooo far...

 

*whsiper*

i use to have an infatuation with chickens as a wee fraggle...

no..not in that way..pervys

 

shall we talk about how quickly a half ton domestic pig can go feral in like 2 generations? and be this brown spotted furry critter that zips thru the forest?

 

oh....

and happy cinco de myo all

cheers

fraggle metalscarab May 5, 2005 7:46 AM Re: Question Aboot Chickens Hi Fraggle> the *modern* chicken has spent untold generations being bred for> certain qualities... it is descended from the jungle fowl of SE Asia,Once again, you astound me with your vast array of information!!!! :-)BBPeterTo send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

We have groups that trap, vaccinate and neuter feral cats here. Do you? If

they are doing poorly, they keep them until they are in better shape and

then turn them out again. If they are young enough to tame, they find them

homes. We also have free neutering clinics for pets whose owners are low

income and reduced fee clinics. It has really reduced the problem up here

where we live.

 

Lynda

-

Jo Cwazy <heartwork

 

Thursday, May 05, 2005 1:38 PM

Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

 

> Cats - don't run and hide Fraggle :-)

>

> There are plenty of ferral cats around here, so they are quite capable of

> living in the wild. As they have to look after themselves they catch mice

> and birds to eat - fair enough. My personal opinion is that if you keep

> cats you can feed them and you should do everything you can to stop them

> killing wild animals - bells on their collars etc. The wildbirds in

England

> have been decimated by the cat population. Obviously if everything was

> natural there would not be anywhere near as many cats as there are now and

> the bird population would not be so affected.

>

> Jo

[Guest guest]

There is nothing to disagree with - my email was questions not

statements. It did not give my point of view.

 

Jo

Precise thought to miscomprehend

Ambiguity in high resolution

Articulate expletive fiction

Open to misinterpretation - so precise

 

 

 

, " Taga Sickler " <zurumato@e...>

wrote:

> I completely disagree,

> I think it would matter if they became extinct. It would speak

volumes of our complete lack of compassion and indifference.

>

> why do we bend over backwards to save some species and others

not. Most of the animals that are endangered are directly caused

by humans.

> therefore, it is also OUR responsibility to preserve them,

especially because we stole their habitat in the first place.

>

> Chickens have no defense from us. they can't bite, and can't

really fly away. If anything we owe them more than lets say an

endangered butterfly. We F** & ked up their natural lifestyle and

habitat in the first place.

>

> I also disagree that they are stupid. We are judging them by our

kind of intelligence. In many ways, I honestly don't feel

superior to (non-human) animals. There is a lot that scientists

still don't know about how animals communicate.

>

> what to us is a cluck, to them is a very specific language,

telling each other, where the food is, what kind of food it is,

and how much food there is.

>

> -anouk

>

> -

> Lynda

>

> 5/5/2005 4:06:29 PM

> Re: Question Aboot Chickens

>

>

> Nope, wouldn't matter in the least and around here the bobcats and

mountain

> lions and coyotes would be in hog heaven! In fact, I'm sure they'd

send out

> an engraved invitation for folks to cut all kinds of critters loose!

>

> Could we live without critters in the fields? Sure. However, the

fields

> wouldn't be all that bare. We have wild turkeys that saunter around

> squawking up a storm plus enough pigeons (which aren't

domesticated, btw,

> they are wild critters and migratory) to darken the sky sometimes.

Oh, plus

> the occasional bear but they are pretty good at hiding. And we

watch the

> jack rabbits (not cotton tail, pet type rabbits) and squirrels and

ground

> squirrels and chipmunks.

>

> Although there isn't anything cuter than a couple of kids climbing

trees and

> sneaking up on unsuspecting humans!

>

> Lynda

> -

> Jo Cwazy <heartwork@c...>

>

> Thursday, May 05, 2005 10:36 AM

> Re: Question Aboot Chickens

>

>

> > Domesticated farm chickens live outside here when allowed to.

Would it

> > matter if they became extinct? Should they exist only to please

the human

> > palate and eye? Could we live without seeing animals in fields?

> >

> > Jo

To send an email to -

 

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You want humans to continue to unnaturally breed animals?

 

I strongly disagree that it is our responsibility to preserve something we invented. But we certainly didn't steal their habitat because they never had any.

 

Animals that are endangered weren't "invented" by man for his pleasure.

 

BTW, chickens do bite and they have spurs and you really don't want to tangle with an angry rooster!

 

All we owe species we invented is a retirement community where they get to live out their lives in peace. When those species end, they end.

 

And, I'm afraid that chickens are rather stupid. They will peck each other to death, they will climb onto each other and smother the ones on the bottom who will not even try to get out from under the pile and just lay down and die. They are cannibals which is kind of nasty. They'll peck another to death if they have so much as a spot of blood on them. They'll peck the eyeballs out of others because of the way the light hits their eyes (shiny object, peck it).

 

And I don't find humans to be superior to a lot of animals and find some of them just about as dumb as chickens, sheep and turkeys.

 

Did you ever wonder about the poor critter that is hit on the side of the road or the bird that flies into a window? We do rescues. We go out and fetch the little guys and either rehab them or take them to specialists.

 

Some we actually take in and give them a happy life until they die of old age. Horses, donkeys, goats, sheep, chickens, turkeys, geese, ducks, lizards, raptures, turtles, fish, cats, dogs, etc. We've been doing this for over 30 years.

 

Not cruel, just realistic.

 

Lynda

 

-

Taga Sickler

Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:21 PM

Re: Question Aboot Chickens

 

I completely disagree,

I think it would matter if they became extinct. It would speak volumes of our complete lack of compassion and indifference.

 

why do we bend over backwards to save some species and others not. Most of the animals that are endangered are directly caused by humans.

therefore, it is also OUR responsibility to preserve them, especially because we stole their habitat in the first place.

 

Chickens have no defense from us. they can't bite, and can't really fly away. If anything we owe them more than lets say an endangered butterfly. We F** & ked up their natural lifestyle and habitat in the first place.

 

I also disagree that they are stupid. We are judging them by our kind of intelligence. In many ways, I honestly don't feel superior to (non-human) animals. There is a lot that scientists still don't know about how animals communicate.

 

what to us is a cluck, to them is a very specific language, telling each other, where the food is, what kind of food it is, and how much food there is.

 

-anouk

 

 

 

-

Lynda

 

5/5/2005 4:06:29 PM

Re: Question Aboot Chickens

Nope, wouldn't matter in the least and around here the bobcats and mountainlions and coyotes would be in hog heaven! In fact, I'm sure they'd send outan engraved invitation for folks to cut all kinds of critters loose!Could we live without critters in the fields? Sure. However, the fieldswouldn't be all that bare. We have wild turkeys that saunter aroundsquawking up a storm plus enough pigeons (which aren't domesticated, btw,they are wild critters and migratory) to darken the sky sometimes. Oh, plusthe occasional bear but they are pretty good at hiding. And we watch thejack rabbits (not cotton tail, pet type rabbits) and squirrels and groundsquirrels and chipmunks.Although there isn't anything cuter than a couple of kids climbing trees andsneaking up on unsuspecting humans!Lynda-Jo Cwazy <heart workThursday, May 05, 2005 10:36 AMRe: Question Aboot Chickens> Domesticated farm chickens live outside here when allowed to. Would it> matter if they became extinct? Should they exist only to please the human> palate and eye? Could we live without seeing animals in fields?>> JoTo send an email to - To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Then I guess I'd better get off my skinny ass and find myself some

bells for my cats to wear! And a different cat food!

[Guest guest]

I don't know Lynda. My efforts go in all sorts of directions but not

that one.

 

Jo

 

, " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote:

> We have groups that trap, vaccinate and neuter feral cats here. Do

you? If

> they are doing poorly, they keep them until they are in better

shape and

> then turn them out again. If they are young enough to tame, they

find them

> homes. We also have free neutering clinics for pets whose owners

are low

> income and reduced fee clinics. It has really reduced the problem

up here

> where we live.

>

> Lynda

> -

> Jo Cwazy <heartwork@c...>

>

> Thursday, May 05, 2005 1:38 PM

> Re: Re: Question Aboot Chickens

>

>

> > Cats - don't run and hide Fraggle :-)

> >

> > There are plenty of ferral cats around here, so they are quite

capable of

> > living in the wild. As they have to look after themselves they

catch mice

> > and birds to eat - fair enough. My personal opinion is that if

you keep

> > cats you can feed them and you should do everything you can to

stop them

> > killing wild animals - bells on their collars etc. The wildbirds

in

> England

> > have been decimated by the cat population. Obviously if

everything was

> > natural there would not be anywhere near as many cats as there

are now and

> > the bird population would not be so affected.

> >

> > Jo

[Guest guest]

Lynda - you seem to know such a lot about animal behaviour - do you

farm animals?

 

Jo

 

, " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote:

> The domestic boar is killed as he has no defenses as his tusks were

removed shortly after birth. The sows breed with the wild boars, or

at least those that survive do. Piglets are more likely to survive

than an adult pig. Durocs are more likely to survive than lard/bacon

hogs (Cheshire Whites, Poland Whites, etc.). The Duroc is a leaner

pig and more adaptable. Hamps, and Spotted, etc. are in the middle

and may or may not survive. A lot of it, believe it or not, is based

on color to begin with. White and brightly colored pigs are easy

targets. The Duroc are red/brown and blend right along with the

wild/feral pigs.

>

> Pigs quite frequently exhibit cannabalistic characteristics just

like chickens. If you put a white chick in with a whole group of red

or black chicks the others will peck it to death. Same with feral

pigs.

>

> Amazing what one learns in a sociology study <g>

>

> Lynda

> -

> fraggle

>

> Thursday, May 05, 2005 8:22 AM

> Re: Question Aboot Chickens

>

>

> and it gets me sooo far...

>

>

> *whsiper*

> i use to have an infatuation with chickens as a wee fraggle...

> no..not in that way..pervys

>

> shall we talk about how quickly a half ton domestic pig can go

feral in like 2 generations? and be this brown spotted furry critter

that zips thru the forest?

>

> oh....

> and happy cinco de myo all

> cheers

> fraggle

>

>

>

> metalscarab@c...

> May 5, 2005 7:46 AM

>

> Re: Question Aboot Chickens

>

> Hi Fraggle

>

> > the *modern* chicken has spent untold generations being

bred for

> > certain qualities... it is descended from the jungle fowl of SE

Asia,

>

> Once again, you astound me with your vast array of

information!!!! :-)

>

> BB

> Peter

>

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

 

>

>

>

>

> --

----------

>

>