Guest guest Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 I find this article to have some BIG gaps in the reality check department. One of the most endangered rivers in the U.S. is the Klamath. It is down to a trickle and what is left is being polluted by farms. Farms that have sprouted up with government help in a desert. A dam that is owned by a company in Scotland. Why are rivers and so forth in the U.S. owned or controlled by companies in another country. You want to see a river on the point of dying, take a trip up the Klamath! Lynda - rvijay <rvijay07 Saturday, April 16, 2005 1:10 PM Re: Raw Sewage in American Rivers > > > , " rvijay " <rvijay07@m...> wrote: > > > > Read the entire report at: > > americanrivers.org > > > > Vijay > > > Here is the exact URL. It is the 2005 Report > http://www.americanrivers.org/site/News2?JServSessionIdr001=y937gv1bu1.app6b & abbr=AMR_ & page=NewsArticle & id=7193 & news_iv_ctrl=-1 To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 , " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote: > > I find this article to have some BIG gaps in the reality check department. > One of the most endangered rivers in the U.S. is the Klamath. It is down to > a trickle and what is left is being polluted by farms. Farms that have > sprouted up with government help in a desert. A dam that is owned by a > company in Scotland. > > Why are rivers and so forth in the U.S. owned or controlled by companies in > another country. > > You want to see a river on the point of dying, take a trip up the Klamath! > > Lynda If you believe the above to be true, then E-mail this to americanrivers.org They seem to be a sincere group. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 , " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote: > > I find this article to have some BIG gaps in the reality check department. > One of the most endangered rivers in the U.S. is the Klamath. It is down to > a trickle and what is left is being polluted by farms. Farms that have > sprouted up with government help in a desert. A dam that is owned by a > company in Scotland. > > Why are rivers and so forth in the U.S. owned or controlled by companies in > another country. > > You want to see a river on the point of dying, take a trip up the Klamath! > > Lynda > They are aware of this problem. See site below: http://www.waterconserve.info/articles/reader.asp?linkid=9570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 Hi Lynda > Why are rivers and so forth in the U.S. owned or controlled by companies in > another country. If you're worried about that sort of thing, you might want to be asking why the Federal Reserve Bank is owned and controlled by companies (well, families) in another country.... rivers are the least of your worries in that respect!!! BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 , " Peter " <metalscarab@c...> wrote: > If you're worried about that sort of thing, you might want to be asking why > the Federal Reserve Bank is owned and controlled by companies (well, > families) in another country.... rivers are the least of your worries in > that respect!!! > > BB > Peter Money is just a number. Specially, these days with credit cards etc., most money is digital. However, if someone else controls our food/water supply then we are at their mercy big time. God forbid that those who control these resources don't do major mistakes. A great limitation with natural resources is that there is only so much to go around, is limited and once it is over, then that is that. Natural resources aren't easily transferred/borrowed. Fresh water is the most vital and basic of all natural resources. No water, there is no life. This is just my humble opinion in this regard. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 We had some beautiful rivers up here once upon a time. When I was a kid we could wade in them and swim in them and not have to worry. The Elk is now a mud hole and a small child would be swallowed up by the mud. That is compliments of the hostile takeover of Pacific Lumber. TX please go home! The Eel was diverted so that more grapes and houses could be grown in Wine Country. Now it is barely a wading creek but the Russian River runs year round and is a lovely muddy green from the run-off from vineyards. The Klamath was a beautiful river and since the dam that the company in Scotland owns and the diversion for farming potatoes in a desert, it is polluted, green and thousands of salmon died two years ago. The smell alone was enough to gag you! Living in the country, we are the next thing to self-sustaining. I can get by with little or no money but water is important which is why we bought property with two creeks. We are lucky but I have deep concerns for other whose water is diverted to make some fat cat richer. Lynda - rvijay <rvijay07 Saturday, April 16, 2005 5:19 PM Re: Should read " Endangered Rivers, was Raw Sewage in American Rivers > > > , " Peter " <metalscarab@c...> wrote: > > > If you're worried about that sort of thing, you might want to be > asking why > > the Federal Reserve Bank is owned and controlled by companies (well, > > families) in another country.... rivers are the least of your worries in > > that respect!!! > > > > BB > > Peter > > > Money is just a number. Specially, these days with credit cards etc., > most money is digital. However, if someone else controls our > food/water supply then we are at their mercy big time. God forbid that > those who control these resources don't do major mistakes. A great > limitation with natural resources is that there is only so much to go > around, is limited and once it is over, then that is that. Natural > resources aren't easily transferred/borrowed. Fresh water is the most > vital and basic of all natural resources. No water, there is no life. > This is just my humble opinion in this regard. > > Vijay To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 , " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote: > > > Living in the country, we are the next thing to self-sustaining. I can get > by with little or no money but water is important which is why we bought > property with two creeks. We are lucky but I have deep concerns for other > whose water is diverted to make some fat cat richer. > > Lynda Thanks for sharing. Homesteading can have some serious challenges. Everyone needs to be aware of this. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 You've missed the point vijay - same difference. Jo > Money is just a number. Specially, these days with credit cards etc., > most money is digital. However, if someone else controls our > food/water supply then we are at their mercy big time. God forbid that > those who control these resources don't do major mistakes. A great > limitation with natural resources is that there is only so much to go > around, is limited and once it is over, then that is that. Natural > resources aren't easily transferred/borrowed. Fresh water is the most > vital and basic of all natural resources. No water, there is no life. > This is just my humble opinion in this regard. > > Vijay To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 I read a report recently that stated that the amount of water needed daily to satisfy the needs of the world population is twice the amount needed to water the worlds golf courses. It was probably overstated but there is still more than a grain of truth in it. Somehow I doubt that if there is a shortage of water that the golf will be the first thing to suffer. -- In , " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote: > You've missed the point vijay - same difference. > > Jo > > > Money is just a number. Specially, these days with credit cards etc., > > most money is digital. However, if someone else controls our > > food/water supply then we are at their mercy big time. God forbid that > > those who control these resources don't do major mistakes. A great > > limitation with natural resources is that there is only so much to go > > around, is limited and once it is over, then that is that. Natural > > resources aren't easily transferred/borrowed. Fresh water is the most > > vital and basic of all natural resources. No water, there is no life. > > This is just my humble opinion in this regard. > > > > Vijay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 , " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote: > You've missed the point vijay - same difference. > > Jo > People can live without money/banks. Several homesteaders do. However, people can't live without water even for a few days. Also water is not easily transferable as money. Water is limited, however Govts. print more money when they want. Hence, water is real basic, precious and vital. This is just my humble opinion. If there are still differences of opinion then it is best that we agree to disagree in this regard and move on. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 Hi Vijay > Money is just a number. Specially, these days with credit cards etc., > most money is digital. However, if someone else controls our > food/water supply then we are at their mercy big time. God forbid that > those who control these resources don't do major mistakes. A great > limitation with natural resources is that there is only so much to go > around, is limited and once it is over, then that is that. Natural > resources aren't easily transferred/borrowed. Fresh water is the most > vital and basic of all natural resources. No water, there is no life. > This is just my humble opinion in this regard. However, if those who have control of the money decide to make it worthless, the vast majority of us won't have the ability to survive... I'm no fan of economies, but the fact is that they currently are the most significant thing in the average person's life.... and let's not forget... water does fall out of the sky, and at the moment there's nothing anyone can do to stop that! BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 In Arizona a large % of the golf courses use recycled water. In fact, one place in AZ is talking about/may have already done fake snow with recycled water. I figure if they want a golf course then they *should* be required to use recycled water or go without! Lynda - Mary Minihane <minih Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:31 AM Re: Should read " Endangered Rivers, was Raw Sewage in American Rivers > > > > I read a report recently that stated that the amount of water needed > daily to satisfy the needs of the world population is twice the amount > needed to water the worlds golf courses. It was probably overstated > but there is still more than a grain of truth in it. Somehow I doubt > that if there is a shortage of water that the golf will be the first > thing to suffer. > > -- In , " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote: > > You've missed the point vijay - same difference. > > > > Jo > > > > > Money is just a number. Specially, these days with credit cards etc., > > > most money is digital. However, if someone else controls our > > > food/water supply then we are at their mercy big time. God forbid that > > > those who control these resources don't do major mistakes. A great > > > limitation with natural resources is that there is only so much to go > > > around, is limited and once it is over, then that is that. Natural > > > resources aren't easily transferred/borrowed. Fresh water is the most > > > vital and basic of all natural resources. No water, there is no life. > > > This is just my humble opinion in this regard. > > > > > > Vijay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to > - > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 No but there are draught years (check out Africa) and there is acid rain which makes some water worthless unless very expensive treatments are done on it. Rivers are polluted past the point of redemption. Me, I'm safe but the rest of ya better be thinking more about your water! We're even in the process of setting up a still for veggie diesel! We have choosen not to rely on the whims of places such as the DC whorehouse! Lynda - Peter <metalscarab Sunday, April 17, 2005 1:34 PM Re: Re: Should read " Endangered Rivers, was Raw Sewage in American Rivers > > Hi Vijay > > > Money is just a number. Specially, these days with credit cards etc., > > most money is digital. However, if someone else controls our > > food/water supply then we are at their mercy big time. God forbid that > > those who control these resources don't do major mistakes. A great > > limitation with natural resources is that there is only so much to go > > around, is limited and once it is over, then that is that. Natural > > resources aren't easily transferred/borrowed. Fresh water is the most > > vital and basic of all natural resources. No water, there is no life. > > This is just my humble opinion in this regard. > > However, if those who have control of the money decide to make it worthless, > the vast majority of us won't have the ability to survive... I'm no fan of > economies, but the fact is that they currently are the most significant > thing in the average person's life.... and let's not forget... water does > fall out of the sky, and at the moment there's nothing anyone can do to stop > that! > > BB > Peter > > > > > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 , " Peter " <metalscarab@c...> wrote: > Hi Vijay > > However, if those who have control of the money decide to make it worthless, > the vast majority of us won't have the ability to survive... I'm no fan of > economies, but the fact is that they currently are the most significant > thing in the average person's life.... and let's not forget... water does > fall out of the sky, and at the moment there's nothing anyone can do to stop > that! > > BB > Peter Hi Peter: Agreed that most are at the mercy of money and are too busy to even think otherwise. Hence, this dependance on money needs to be eliminated or reduced. Dr. Borsodi to me is a Hero. He is an economist, very educated and did several amazing things. Dr. Borsodi saw the great depression, the great crash etc., and gave frugal homesteading solutions. Atleast reading on them is strongly suggested. The site is www.soilandhealth.org Search and read for Dr. Borsodi's E-Books such as this Ugly Civilization and Flight From the City. Basically, what he suggests is moving to the Country side and farming on a small plot of land for survival. Dependance on money is greatly reduced this way. This is also called homesteading. However, if water in these areas is lost, then even even this last hope disappears. You can also google for homesteading sites for more info. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 , " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote: > > Me, I'm safe but the rest of ya better be thinking more about your water! > We're even in the process of setting up a still for veggie diesel! We have > choosen not to rely on the whims of places such as the DC whorehouse! > > Lynda This is what Dr. Borsodi talked about. Not becomming totally dependent on money and others for the basics. I am very happy that you and your family is way ahead in this regard. Wishing you and your family further success and many more happy times. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Of course - you do need money to buy a small plot of land to do small homestead farming on! Jo > Basically, what he suggests is moving to the Country side and farming > on a small plot of land for survival. Dependance on money is greatly > reduced this way. This is also called homesteading. However, if water > in these areas is lost, then even even this last hope disappears. You > can also google for homesteading sites for more info. > > Vijay To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 , " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote: > Of course - you do need money to buy a small plot of land to do small > homestead farming on! > If you go rural, this is not hard. A few years of hard work and savings would prepare one for this. That is why I suggest reading Dr. Borsodi's book. It is free and is a good read. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Please explain what you mean. I have been working all my life, and do not think it is easy. Rural land is expensive around here. Jo > If you go rural, this is not hard. A few years of hard work and > savings would prepare one for this. That is why I suggest reading Dr. > Borsodi's book. It is free and is a good read. > > Vijay To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Well, as a homesteader of several years, I can tell you that you might need some money to start but if you are really living the homesteading lifestyle then your outside needs decrease each year. If the whole economy goes belly up, then there won't be taxes, etc. and everything can be bartered. For example, it will take us a maximum of 5 years to have our orchard and garden totally self-sufficient. After that we will need money for taxes and stuff like flour and sugar which we could raise but which would be too labor intensive at this point. We could raise our own sugar beets (they don't take up much space) and could raise buckwwheat and barley and grind them instead of wheat flour. However, we will be buying our wheat and grinding it ourselves within the next 3 years (saving for the grinder). We've already scouted out two huge berry patches that grow on public land, so that will be the base of pies and jelly/jam until our raspberry, marionberry and other berries are up to full production. Also, for vegans, one acre would be sufficient for all except wheat and sugar. The 5 acre minimum assumes one will be raising livestock. There is also community homesteading which occurs in cities. Folks get together and get permission to use a vacant lot. The group of families share the work and there are several successful " homesteaders " who are growing almost all their veggies on city lots using container gardening. I think the real problem is that most folks just don't want to put in that much effort. Doing it yourself is hard work. Heading to the corner store is easy. Lynda - Jo Cwazy <heartwork > > Of course - you do need money to buy a small plot of land to do small > homestead farming on! > > Jo > > Basically, what he suggests is moving to the Country side and farming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 It is really all about choices, a different outlook on life. For example, we spend less on organic food than most folks do on their groceries. I plan and buy in bulk from a store that I searched out that will sell to me at 5% over cost because I do order in bulk. Saves lots of money! Another example, we recycle, EVERYTHING. Last week we went to the new recycling center that we now have in town (a village to folks in some parts of the world). We got enough money from recycling to buy 3 apple trees (2 Red Gravensteins, 1 Golden Delicious), an Early Italian prune, 6 grapes, 20 strawberries, a lilac, a wisteria and a pony pack of black pansies. The last 3 weren't necessary, but we feel that one must also feed one's soul. We are scouting around to see if we can do some trading for canning jars. Lots of folks try it a year or two and get tired of it, so we're hoping that instead of throwing them in the garbage, we can interest them in trading or giving them to us. Youngest kidlet wants some skirts. Instead of buying new skirts, we'll be making a couple of old pairs of jeans into one skirt and cutting the top off a dress for another skirt. She wants a heavy jacket for next winter and the cool nights we have here. We have an old quilt that she likes and it is going to become a jacket. Lynda - Jo Cwazy <heartwork Monday, April 18, 2005 2:48 PM Re: Re: Should read " Endangered Rivers, was Raw Sewage in American Rivers > > Please explain what you mean. I have been working all my life, and do not > think it is easy. Rural land is expensive around here. > > Jo > > > > If you go rural, this is not hard. A few years of hard work and > > savings would prepare one for this. That is why I suggest reading Dr. > > Borsodi's book. It is free and is a good read. > > > > Vijay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 , " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote: > Please explain what you mean. I have been working all my life, and do not > think it is easy. Rural land is expensive around here. > > Jo > > It is evident that we are dealing with region specific issues here. UK seems to be real expensive. Rural land in US/Canada are still affordable. Are you allowed to live/work in Scotland ? How are land prices there ? Here in North America, they even give free land sometimes, please refer to the site below: http://www.kansasfreeland.com/ Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Hi Vijay > If you go rural, this is not hard. A few years of hard work and > savings would prepare one for this. That is why I suggest reading Dr. > Borsodi's book. It is free and is a good read. Again, depends entirely on where you come from... this may well be the case in the US, but in the UK rural land is the most expensive, and way out of the reach of someone currently earning an ordinary salary who doesn't already own property. BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Hi Lynda > Another example, we recycle, EVERYTHING. Last week we went to the new > recycling center that we now have in town (a village to folks in some parts > of the world). We got enough money from recycling to buy 3 apple trees (2 > Red Gravensteins, 1 Golden Delicious), an Early Italian prune, 6 grapes, 20 > strawberries, a lilac, a wisteria and a pony pack of black pansies. The > last 3 weren't necessary, but we feel that one must also feed one's soul. You get *paid* for recycling stuff... in the UK it's really hard to recycle, and at best you don't get charged! I recycle as much as I possibly can, but it basically means seperating every sort of material out, and then taking it on a 10 mile drive to a recycling centre, to dump it off... unless you're classified as a " business " , in which case you have to pay! (fortunately I'm not a business!!!!) I sure wish they paid for the stuff in this country - might encourage a few more people to recycle! BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 , " Peter " <metalscarab@c...> wrote: > Hi Vijay > > Again, depends entirely on where you come from... this may well be the case > in the US, but in the UK rural land is the most expensive, and way out of > the reach of someone currently earning an ordinary salary who doesn't > already own property. > > BB > Peter This seems to be true. That is why more people seem to wish to immigrate to Canada from the UK/France. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 , " Peter " <metalscarab@c...> wrote: > > You get *paid* for recycling stuff... in the UK it's really hard to recycle, > and at best you don't get charged! I recycle as much as I possibly can, but > it basically means seperating every sort of material out, and then taking it > on a 10 mile drive to a recycling centre, to dump it off... unless you're > classified as a " business " , in which case you have to pay! (fortunately I'm > not a business!!!!) I sure wish they paid for the stuff in this country - > might encourage a few more people to recycle! > > BB > Peter Yes, regional issues certainly. Even here some places are waayyy more expensive than others. For some cheap real estate, take a look at these prices in Canadian Dollars: http://tinyurl.com/7yugy Vijay )) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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