Guest guest Report post Posted December 19, 2004 I haven't spoken in this group yet, but I do have to say that I agree with you, Catherine. I couldn't imagine having to open my fridge and see a poor turkey's corpse sitting there or even worse, seeing the man I kiss eat it!! Yuck!! ValerieCatherine Harris <cait2 wrote: wowsome judgemental stuff here boy!!i have many friends of vegan veggie and meat eater life choices......i choose not to open my fridge and have meat products staring out at me.......its my home my choice!!!what any one else does is their business!!catherine>peter hurd > > >RE: vegan families>Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:47:44 +0000 (GMT)>>Boy life seems black and white to you doesnt it?>You wouldnt live with anyone who wasnt a vegan?>Tolerance not your middle name then , is it?>>>As a rule I wouldn’t expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living >with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat.>>It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist.>>You wouldnt expect it? very self opinionated arent you?>>Whilst I agree that we are talking a belief system here we are not talking >religion , or are we?.>>Sorry to burst your bubble , but unless you live in a high density >population area, you are very likely to be the only vegan around, and >therefore either share with someone with different beleifs/religion ...or >be very alone.>>Are you the vegan police or something, does it make you a better vegan to >be less tolrant of other peoples beliefs?>>I have been a vegan for over 20 years, and for all my life shared a home >with non vegans, does this make me less of a person because of it?>>Peace , Love and understanding to all,>>The Valley Vegan.....>>>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:* >{behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape >{behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) >}st2\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }>If he eats meat – yes – boot him out>>>>(Being flippant)>>>>Generally if one is vegan it is not because one ‘want’ to be, rather - >‘forced’ to be because of what you know.>>>>In the same way that people happily buy products at GAP and at ADIDAS etc >until they are told about the horrible regimes that exist to make those >clothes and then they shop elsewhere.>>>>I am a life vegan – 24 years and I wouldn’t live with anyone else who >wasn’t. I suppose if you have only started the move to vegaism recently >it’s different (never done it).>>As a rule I wouldn’t expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living >with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat.>>It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist.>>>>Sorry if I am abrupt and argumentative – growing up in a basically stupid >world really gets my goat and I shout loudly – please don’t take it >personally – I don’t know you and am just calling shots on what’s written >in emails (all info we have to go on anyway).>>>>regards>>>>>>>>Andrew Barnes>>>>>>>>>>>>victoria leggett [tipples78]>14 December 2004 19:55> >Re: vegan families>>>>>what about my partner who is too an adult? or should i just ask him to >leave??>>Anna Blaine wrote:>>I think the grownup who's doing the cooking should get to decide how the >family eats. That's the adult's job - to make sure their children are >eating properly.>>>>>>-Anna>>>>>>>>>->>>Peter>>> >>>12/13/2004 5:35:35 PM>>>Re: vegan families>>>>>>Hi Victoria>>>>>> > exactly! my kids are 8 and 9 so they cant cook for themselves! i will >cook what they want untill the time they leave home,>>> > whatever it may be!>>>>>>What if they wanted you to cook human flesh? Or, how about dog or cat?>>>>>>As a question for anyone who feels so inclined to answer... what would >people consider to be the ethical boundary they would not cross when it >comes to feeding their children?>>>>>>For me, it would be that I would not prepare a non-vegan meal for anyone. >If people want to eat meat / dairy, I would have no inclination to prevent >them from doing so, but I would not provide it for them.>>>>>>BB>>>Peter>>>>>To send an email to - >>>>>>To send an email to - >>>>>>>>Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Messenger>>To send an email to - >>>>>______________________>This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The>service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive>anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:>http://www.star.net.uk>______________________>>>>This message is confidential and is intended for the addressee only; unless >clearly stated that this disclaimer should not apply, this e-mail is not >intended to create legally binding commitments on behalf of FDM Group Plc, >nor do its contents reflect the corporate views or policies of FDM. Any >unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination, either whole or partial, is >prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of the message, please >notify the sender immediately.>______________________>This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The>service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive>anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:>http://www.star.net.uk>______________________>>>To send an email to - >>> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 19, 2004 Good luck with the operation, recovery and the food. BB Jo > hi jo > > i am going in to hospital on tuesday, op on wednesday. > > catherine > > > " Jo bb " <Heartwork > > > > > >Re: Re: vegan families > >Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:26:13 -0000 > > > >Hi Catherine > > > >When are you going to hospital? > > > >BB > >Jo > > > hi everyone, > > > > > > i have been working too hard but now am off to get my blood pressure > >down > > > prior to operation next week.... > > > > > > about the vegan partner thing.....a guide might be does the meat eating > > > partner have a flexible attitude, ie or does their long term plan > >include > > > having the vegan cook them meat for a lifetime? > > > > > > i hear what everyoneis saying, but i dont know if i could open my fridge > >and > > > see meat there again.....it makes me feel sick......so the only answer > >is > > > not to live together!!........or for me, have a vegan or veggie partner, > > > > > > but, to each their own, > > > > > > catherine > > > > > > pengam pagan princess x > > > > > > >peter hurd <swpgh01 > > > > > > > > > > > >Re: Re: vegan families > > > >Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:56:04 +0000 (GMT) > > > > > > > >I too understand the tooth brushing.... > > > > > > > >fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:hey..thanx fer yer input > >Robin!!! > > > > > > > >and, i totally understand the brushin the teeth thing! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Robin > > > >Dec 15, 2004 6:49 AM > > > > > > > > Re: vegan families > > > > > > > > > > > >After reading about this subject I figured maybe I should place my > > > >two senses on the whole ordeal. > > > > > > > >Like most people in this group I was grown up to eat meat and in > > > >most cases was told even through the school system that meat should > > > >be a part of every meal because after all, " it is healthy " . When I > > > >was a teenager I was a little bit more well read and decided to not > > > >eat meat anymore. I took what I knew and advocated about the many > > > >eating alternatives out there and successfully through the support > > > >of my many classmates, added vegetarian and even vegan choices to > > > >the school lunch menu. During my dating years, I prefered a > > > >vegetarian or a vegan but later found that it was hard to put that > > > >kind of expectation on a guy who may really want to genuinely know > > > >me but just so happened to eat meat. > > > > > > > > > > > >Just this past summer, after finding out that dairy products were > > > >doing serious damage to my body and immune system I went vegan and > > > >since then never turned back. But my fiance, however, is Ukrainain > > > >and was raised for 10 years in England. Both countries use meat and > > > >dairy as a huge staple. Currently, if you look in my fridge it > > > >looks like a confused person does our grocery shopping. I try to > > > >cook vegan meals that both him and I enjoy but its rare that he > > > >keeps it vegan, usually he will top anything with sour cream (the > > > >Ukrainian side) or even I will find him heating up some bangers (the > > > >English side) as a main dish. This at times make our lives tough > > > >when it comes to food (I even make him brush his teeth after he eats > > > >anything non vegan... I know it sounds stupid but the smell of it > > > >disgusts me)but then I have to realize that food is not a huge part > > > >of our relationship and this is just a small imperfection in the > > > >relationship. My cousin, who also happens to be vegan, said it best > > > >when she said " What matters more to you??? A guy who is always > > > >cheating on you or a guy who eats meat??? " > > > > > > > > > > > >Sure I would love to have the vision that I will marry this man and > > > >we can be this wonderful, happy, vegan family but I know that you > > > >cannot have it all in this life regardless of what you do. The only > > > >thing I can do is teach my future children about healthy eating > > > >options and hope that they make the right choices and in turn maybe > > > >pass that wisdom on. > > > > > > > > > > > >Sorry about the rambling but thanks to all that took the time to > > > >read it!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >___________________ > > > >___ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To send an email to - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 19, 2004 Yes I do find life very black and white. And I am very tired of ‘liberal vegans’. You asked me if I think you are less of a person because you do tolerate meat eaters. YES I absolutely DO. In the same way I share an intolerance of rapists & murderers. I think we need more vegans who are intolerant of these completely self obsessed people who only think of themselves in what they buy (human & animal rights), and frankly (I am being frank) being tolerant of them only serves to allow them not to bother thinking about the wrongs they are doing the rest of society. Burst my bubble? No, you have sussed me out perfectly. Rgds, Andy peter hurd [swpgh01] 18 December 2004 15:48 RE: vegan families Boy life seems black and white to you doesnt it? You wouldnt live with anyone who wasnt a vegan? Tolerance not your middle name then , is it? As a rule I wouldn’t expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat. It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist. You wouldnt expect it? very self opinionated arent you? Whilst I agree that we are talking a belief system here we are not talking religion , or are we?. Sorry to burst your bubble , but unless you live in a high density population area, you are very likely to be the only vegan around, and therefore either share with someone with different beleifs/religion ...or be very alone. Are you the vegan police or something, does it make you a better vegan to be less tolrant of other peoples beliefs? I have been a vegan for over 20 years, and for all my life shared a home with non vegans, does this make me less of a person because of it? Peace , Love and understanding to all, The Valley Vegan..... If he eats meat – yes – boot him out (Being flippant) Generally if one is vegan it is not because one ‘want’ to be, rather - ‘forced’ to be because of what you know. In the same way that people happily buy products at GAP and at ADIDAS etc until they are told about the horrible regimes that exist to make those clothes and then they shop elsewhere. I am a life vegan – 24 years and I wouldn’t live with anyone else who wasn’t. I suppose if you have only started the move to vegaism recently it’s different (never done it). As a rule I wouldn’t expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat. It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist. Sorry if I am abrupt and argumentative – growing up in a basically stupid world really gets my goat and I shout loudly – please don’t take it personally – I don’t know you and am just calling shots on what’s written in emails (all info we have to go on anyway). regards Andrew Barnes victoria leggett [tipples78] 14 December 2004 19:55 Re: vegan families what about my partner who is too an adult? or should i just ask him to leave?? Anna Blaine <anna333 wrote: I think the grownup who's doing the cooking should get to decide how the family eats. That's the adult's job - to make sure their children are eating properly. -Anna - Peter 12/13/2004 5:35:35 PM Re: vegan families Hi Victoria > exactly! my kids are 8 and 9 so they cant cook for themselves! i will cook what they want untill the time they leave home, > whatever it may be! What if they wanted you to cook human flesh? Or, how about dog or cat? As a question for anyone who feels so inclined to answer... what would people consider to be the ethical boundary they would not cross when it comes to feeding their children? For me, it would be that I would not prepare a non-vegan meal for anyone. If people want to eat meat / dairy, I would have no inclination to prevent them from doing so, but I would not provide it for them. BB Peter To send an email to - To send an email to - Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Messenger To send an email to - ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ This message is confidential and is intended for the addressee only; unless clearly stated that this disclaimer should not apply, this e-mail is not intended to create legally binding commitments on behalf of FDM Group Plc, nor do its contents reflect the corporate views or policies of FDM. Any unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination, either whole or partial, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of the message, please notify the sender immediately. ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ To send an email to - Peter H Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Messenger To send an email to - ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 19, 2004 How is it their business? There are three parties involved in this judgement. 'I', 'You', 'others' (animals). For example; would you happily observe a family who has their child as a chimney sweep and say 'it's their business'? No of course not - so why does everyone here seem to think it is ok to say - 'you kill animals - your choice' Don't any of you think that the meat industry etc. is morally wrong? Personal choice exists when it doesn't hurt anyone else. Andy Catherine Harris [cait2] 19 December 2004 01:40 RE: vegan families wow some judgemental stuff here boy!! i have many friends of vegan veggie and meat eater life choices......i choose not to open my fridge and have meat products staring out at me.......its my home my choice!!! what any one else does is their business!! catherine >peter hurd <swpgh01 > > >RE: vegan families >Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:47:44 +0000 (GMT) > >Boy life seems black and white to you doesnt it? >You wouldnt live with anyone who wasnt a vegan? >Tolerance not your middle name then , is it? > > >As a rule I wouldn't expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living >with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat. > >It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist. > >You wouldnt expect it? very self opinionated arent you? > >Whilst I agree that we are talking a belief system here we are not talking >religion , or are we?. > >Sorry to burst your bubble , but unless you live in a high density >population area, you are very likely to be the only vegan around, and >therefore either share with someone with different beleifs/religion ...or >be very alone. > >Are you the vegan police or something, does it make you a better vegan to >be less tolrant of other peoples beliefs? > >I have been a vegan for over 20 years, and for all my life shared a home >with non vegans, does this make me less of a person because of it? > >Peace , Love and understanding to all, > >The Valley Vegan..... > > >v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:* >{behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape >{behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) >}st2\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } >If he eats meat - yes - boot him out > > > >(Being flippant) > > > >Generally if one is vegan it is not because one 'want' to be, rather - >'forced' to be because of what you know. > > > >In the same way that people happily buy products at GAP and at ADIDAS etc >until they are told about the horrible regimes that exist to make those >clothes and then they shop elsewhere. > > > >I am a life vegan - 24 years and I wouldn't live with anyone else who >wasn't. I suppose if you have only started the move to vegaism recently >it's different (never done it). > >As a rule I wouldn't expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living >with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat. > >It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist. > > > >Sorry if I am abrupt and argumentative - growing up in a basically stupid >world really gets my goat and I shout loudly - please don't take it >personally - I don't know you and am just calling shots on what's written >in emails (all info we have to go on anyway). > > > >regards > > > > > > > >Andrew Barnes > > > > > > > > > > > >victoria leggett [tipples78] >14 December 2004 19:55 > >Re: vegan families > > > > >what about my partner who is too an adult? or should i just ask him to >leave?? > >Anna Blaine <anna333 wrote: > >I think the grownup who's doing the cooking should get to decide how the >family eats. That's the adult's job - to make sure their children are >eating properly. > > > > > >-Anna > > > > > > > > >- > > >Peter > > > > > >12/13/2004 5:35:35 PM > > >Re: vegan families > > > > > >Hi Victoria > > > > > > > exactly! my kids are 8 and 9 so they cant cook for themselves! i will >cook what they want untill the time they leave home, > > > > whatever it may be! > > > > > >What if they wanted you to cook human flesh? Or, how about dog or cat? > > > > > >As a question for anyone who feels so inclined to answer... what would >people consider to be the ethical boundary they would not cross when it >comes to feeding their children? > > > > > >For me, it would be that I would not prepare a non-vegan meal for anyone. >If people want to eat meat / dairy, I would have no inclination to prevent >them from doing so, but I would not provide it for them. > > > > > >BB > > >Peter > > > > >To send an email to - > > > > > >To send an email to - > > > > > > > >Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Messenger > >To send an email to - > > > > >______________________ >This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The >service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive >anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: >http://www.star.net.uk >______________________ > > > >This message is confidential and is intended for the addressee only; unless >clearly stated that this disclaimer should not apply, this e-mail is not >intended to create legally binding commitments on behalf of FDM Group Plc, >nor do its contents reflect the corporate views or policies of FDM. Any >unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination, either whole or partial, is >prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of the message, please >notify the sender immediately. >______________________ >This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The >service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive >anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: >http://www.star.net.uk >______________________ > > >To send an email to - > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 19, 2004 Andrew, don't think that everyone is a Liberal Vegan I and my wife share your views, whether it is meat, smoking, murder, rape etc.. it all it hurting someone else.. this is the moral right this is what it is to be Vegan this is the way we (human race) need to go enjoy awareness Craig vegan familiesHow is it their business?There are three parties involved in this judgement. 'I', 'You', 'others'(animals).For example; would you happily observe a family who has their child as achimney sweep and say 'it's their business'? No of course not - so why does everyone here seem to think it is ok to say -'you kill animals - your choice'Don't any of you think that the meat industry etc. is morally wrong?Personal choice exists when it doesn't hurt anyone else.AndyCatherine Harris [cait2] 19 December 2004 01:40 Subject: RE: vegan familieswowsome judgemental stuff here boy!!i have many friends of vegan veggie and meat eater life choices......i choose not to open my fridge and have meat products staring out at me.......its my home my choice!!!what any one else does is their business!!catherine>peter hurd <swpgh01> > >RE: vegan families>Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:47:44 +0000 (GMT)>>Boy life seems black and white to you doesnt it?>You wouldnt live with anyone who wasnt a vegan?>Tolerance not your middle name then , is it?>>>As a rule I wouldn't expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living >with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat.>>It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist.>>You wouldnt expect it? very self opinionated arent you?>>Whilst I agree that we are talking a belief system here we are not talking >religion , or are we?.>>Sorry to burst your bubble , but unless you live in a high density >population area, you are very likely to be the only vegan around, and >therefore either share with someone with different beleifs/religion ...or >be very alone.>>Are you the vegan police or something, does it make you a better vegan to >be less tolrant of other peoples beliefs?>>I have been a vegan for over 20 years, and for all my life shared a home >with non vegans, does this make me less of a person because of it?>>Peace , Love and understanding to all,>>The Valley Vegan.....>>>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:* >{behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape >{behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) >}st2\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }>If he eats meat - yes - boot him out>>>>(Being flippant)>>>>Generally if one is vegan it is not because one 'want' to be, rather - >'forced' to be because of what you know.>>>>In the same way that people happily buy products at GAP and at ADIDAS etc >until they are told about the horrible regimes that exist to make those >clothes and then they shop elsewhere.>>>>I am a life vegan - 24 years and I wouldn't live with anyone else who >wasn't. I suppose if you have only started the move to vegaism recently >it's different (never done it).>>As a rule I wouldn't expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living >with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat.>>It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist.>>>>Sorry if I am abrupt and argumentative - growing up in a basically stupid >world really gets my goat and I shout loudly - please don't take it >personally - I don't know you and am just calling shots on what's written >in emails (all info we have to go on anyway).>>>>regards>>>>>>>>Andrew Barnes>>>>>>>>>>>>victoria leggett [tipples78]>14 December 2004 19:55> >Re: vegan families>>>>>what about my partner who is too an adult? or should i just ask him to >leave??>>Anna Blaine <anna333 wrote:>>I think the grownup who's doing the cooking should get to decide how the >family eats. That's the adult's job - to make sure their children are >eating properly.>>>>>>-Anna>>>>>>>>>->>>Peter>>> >>>12/13/2004 5:35:35 PM>>>Re: vegan families>>>>>>Hi Victoria>>>>>> > exactly! my kids are 8 and 9 so they cant cook for themselves! i will >cook what they want untill the time they leave home,>>> > whatever it may be!>>>>>>What if they wanted you to cook human flesh? Or, how about dog or cat?>>>>>>As a question for anyone who feels so inclined to answer... what would >people consider to be the ethical boundary they would not cross when it >comes to feeding their children?>>> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 19, 2004 hi by my business etc i was responding to the previous email who said i was intolerant and lonely if i insisted in having a vegan living space....it came out wrong as if i dont care... i wouldnt have meat smoking violence and many other things in my home nor do i condone them elsewhere...... catherine > " Andrew Barnes " <andrew.barnes > > >RE: vegan families >Sun, 19 Dec 2004 15:08:38 -0000 > >How is it their business? > >There are three parties involved in this judgement. 'I', 'You', 'others' >(animals). > >For example; would you happily observe a family who has their child as a >chimney sweep and say 'it's their business'? >No of course not - so why does everyone here seem to think it is ok to say >- >'you kill animals - your choice' > >Don't any of you think that the meat industry etc. is morally wrong? > >Personal choice exists when it doesn't hurt anyone else. > >Andy > > > >Catherine Harris [cait2] >19 December 2004 01:40 > >RE: vegan families > > >wow > >some judgemental stuff here boy!! > >i have many friends of vegan veggie and meat eater life choices......i >choose not to open my fridge and have meat products staring out at >me.......its my home my choice!!! > >what any one else does is their business!! > >catherine > > >peter hurd <swpgh01 > > > > > >RE: vegan families > >Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:47:44 +0000 (GMT) > > > >Boy life seems black and white to you doesnt it? > >You wouldnt live with anyone who wasnt a vegan? > >Tolerance not your middle name then , is it? > > > > > >As a rule I wouldn't expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living > >with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat. > > > >It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist. > > > >You wouldnt expect it? very self opinionated arent you? > > > >Whilst I agree that we are talking a belief system here we are not >talking > >religion , or are we?. > > > >Sorry to burst your bubble , but unless you live in a high density > >population area, you are very likely to be the only vegan around, and > >therefore either share with someone with different beleifs/religion ...or > >be very alone. > > > >Are you the vegan police or something, does it make you a better vegan to > >be less tolrant of other peoples beliefs? > > > >I have been a vegan for over 20 years, and for all my life shared a home > >with non vegans, does this make me less of a person because of it? > > > >Peace , Love and understanding to all, > > > >The Valley Vegan..... > > > > > >v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:* > >{behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape > >{behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) > >}st2\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } > >If he eats meat - yes - boot him out > > > > > > > >(Being flippant) > > > > > > > >Generally if one is vegan it is not because one 'want' to be, rather - > >'forced' to be because of what you know. > > > > > > > >In the same way that people happily buy products at GAP and at ADIDAS etc > >until they are told about the horrible regimes that exist to make those > >clothes and then they shop elsewhere. > > > > > > > >I am a life vegan - 24 years and I wouldn't live with anyone else who > >wasn't. I suppose if you have only started the move to vegaism recently > >it's different (never done it). > > > >As a rule I wouldn't expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living > >with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat. > > > >It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist. > > > > > > > >Sorry if I am abrupt and argumentative - growing up in a basically stupid > >world really gets my goat and I shout loudly - please don't take it > >personally - I don't know you and am just calling shots on what's written > >in emails (all info we have to go on anyway). > > > > > > > >regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Andrew Barnes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >victoria leggett [tipples78] > >14 December 2004 19:55 > > > >Re: vegan families > > > > > > > > > >what about my partner who is too an adult? or should i just ask him to > >leave?? > > > >Anna Blaine <anna333 wrote: > > > >I think the grownup who's doing the cooking should get to decide how the > >family eats. That's the adult's job - to make sure their children are > >eating properly. > > > > > > > > > > > >-Anna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >- > > > > > >Peter > > > > > > > > > > > >12/13/2004 5:35:35 PM > > > > > >Re: vegan families > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi Victoria > > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly! my kids are 8 and 9 so they cant cook for themselves! i will > >cook what they want untill the time they leave home, > > > > > > > whatever it may be! > > > > > > > > > > > >What if they wanted you to cook human flesh? Or, how about dog or cat? > > > > > > > > > > > >As a question for anyone who feels so inclined to answer... what would > >people consider to be the ethical boundary they would not cross when it > >comes to feeding their children? > > > > > > > > > > > >For me, it would be that I would not prepare a non-vegan meal for anyone. > >If people want to eat meat / dairy, I would have no inclination to >prevent > >them from doing so, but I would not provide it for them. > > > > > > > > > > > >BB > > > > > >Peter > > > > > > > > > >To send an email to - > > > > > > > > > > > >To send an email to - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Messenger > > > >To send an email to - > > > > > > > > > >______________________ > >This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The > >service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > >anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > >http://www.star.net.uk > >______________________ > > > > > > > >This message is confidential and is intended for the addressee only; >unless > > >clearly stated that this disclaimer should not apply, this e-mail is not > >intended to create legally binding commitments on behalf of FDM Group >Plc, > >nor do its contents reflect the corporate views or policies of FDM. Any > >unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination, either whole or partial, >is > >prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of the message, please > >notify the sender immediately. > >______________________ > >This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > >service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > >anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > >http://www.star.net.uk > >______________________ > > > > > >To send an email to - > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 19, 2004 thank you jo for your good wishes catherine > " Jo bb " <Heartwork > > >Re: Re: vegan families >Sun, 19 Dec 2004 10:50:20 -0000 > >Good luck with the operation, recovery and the food. > >BB >Jo > > > hi jo > > > > i am going in to hospital on tuesday, op on wednesday. > > > > catherine > > > > > " Jo bb " <Heartwork > > > > > > > > >Re: Re: vegan families > > >Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:26:13 -0000 > > > > > >Hi Catherine > > > > > >When are you going to hospital? > > > > > >BB > > >Jo > > > > hi everyone, > > > > > > > > i have been working too hard but now am off to get my blood pressure > > >down > > > > prior to operation next week.... > > > > > > > > about the vegan partner thing.....a guide might be does the meat >eating > > > > partner have a flexible attitude, ie or does their long term plan > > >include > > > > having the vegan cook them meat for a lifetime? > > > > > > > > i hear what everyoneis saying, but i dont know if i could open my >fridge > > >and > > > > see meat there again.....it makes me feel sick......so the only >answer > > >is > > > > not to live together!!........or for me, have a vegan or veggie >partner, > > > > > > > > but, to each their own, > > > > > > > > catherine > > > > > > > > pengam pagan princess x > > > > > > > > >peter hurd <swpgh01 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Re: Re: vegan families > > > > >Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:56:04 +0000 (GMT) > > > > > > > > > >I too understand the tooth brushing.... > > > > > > > > > >fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:hey..thanx fer yer input > > >Robin!!! > > > > > > > > > >and, i totally understand the brushin the teeth thing! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Robin > > > > >Dec 15, 2004 6:49 AM > > > > > > > > > > Re: vegan families > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >After reading about this subject I figured maybe I should place my > > > > >two senses on the whole ordeal. > > > > > > > > > >Like most people in this group I was grown up to eat meat and in > > > > >most cases was told even through the school system that meat should > > > > >be a part of every meal because after all, " it is healthy " . When I > > > > >was a teenager I was a little bit more well read and decided to not > > > > >eat meat anymore. I took what I knew and advocated about the many > > > > >eating alternatives out there and successfully through the support > > > > >of my many classmates, added vegetarian and even vegan choices to > > > > >the school lunch menu. During my dating years, I prefered a > > > > >vegetarian or a vegan but later found that it was hard to put that > > > > >kind of expectation on a guy who may really want to genuinely know > > > > >me but just so happened to eat meat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Just this past summer, after finding out that dairy products were > > > > >doing serious damage to my body and immune system I went vegan and > > > > >since then never turned back. But my fiance, however, is Ukrainain > > > > >and was raised for 10 years in England. Both countries use meat >and > > > > >dairy as a huge staple. Currently, if you look in my fridge it > > > > >looks like a confused person does our grocery shopping. I try to > > > > >cook vegan meals that both him and I enjoy but its rare that he > > > > >keeps it vegan, usually he will top anything with sour cream (the > > > > >Ukrainian side) or even I will find him heating up some bangers >(the > > > > >English side) as a main dish. This at times make our lives tough > > > > >when it comes to food (I even make him brush his teeth after he >eats > > > > >anything non vegan... I know it sounds stupid but the smell of it > > > > >disgusts me)but then I have to realize that food is not a huge part > > > > >of our relationship and this is just a small imperfection in the > > > > >relationship. My cousin, who also happens to be vegan, said it >best > > > > >when she said " What matters more to you??? A guy who is always > > > > >cheating on you or a guy who eats meat??? " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sure I would love to have the vision that I will marry this man and > > > > >we can be this wonderful, happy, vegan family but I know that you > > > > >cannot have it all in this life regardless of what you do. The >only > > > > >thing I can do is teach my future children about healthy eating > > > > >options and hope that they make the right choices and in turn maybe > > > > >pass that wisdom on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sorry about the rambling but thanks to all that took the time to > > > > >read it!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >___________________ > > > > >___ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To send an email to >- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 19, 2004 Andy Can you please keep your conversation polite and refrain from being rude or accusative to other members of the list. Jo - Andrew Barnes Sunday, December 19, 2004 3:01 PM RE: vegan families Yes I do find life very black and white. And I am very tired of ‘liberal vegans’. You asked me if I think you are less of a person because you do tolerate meat eaters. YES I absolutely DO. In the same way I share an intolerance of rapists & murderers. I think we need more vegans who are intolerant of these completely self obsessed people who only think of themselves in what they buy (human & animal rights), and frankly (I am being frank) being tolerant of them only serves to allow them not to bother thinking about the wrongs they are doing the rest of society. Burst my bubble? No, you have sussed me out perfectly. Rgds, Andy peter hurd [swpgh01] 18 December 2004 15:48 Subject: RE: vegan families Boy life seems black and white to you doesnt it? You wouldnt live with anyone who wasnt a vegan? Tolerance not your middle name then , is it? As a rule I wouldn’t expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat. It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist. You wouldnt expect it? very self opinionated arent you? Whilst I agree that we are talking a belief system here we are not talking religion , or are we?. Sorry to burst your bubble , but unless you live in a high density population area, you are very likely to be the only vegan around, and therefore either share with someone with different beleifs/religion ...or be very alone. Are you the vegan police or something, does it make you a better vegan to be less tolrant of other peoples beliefs? I have been a vegan for over 20 years, and for all my life shared a home with non vegans, does this make me less of a person because of it? Peace , Love and understanding to all, The Valley Vegan..... If he eats meat – yes – boot him out (Being flippant) Generally if one is vegan it is not because one ‘want’ to be, rather - ‘forced’ to be because of what you know. In the same way that people happily buy products at GAP and at ADIDAS etc until they are told about the horrible regimes that exist to make those clothes and then they shop elsewhere. I am a life vegan – 24 years and I wouldn’t live with anyone else who wasn’t. I suppose if you have only started the move to vegaism recently it’s different (never done it). As a rule I wouldn’t expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat. It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist. Sorry if I am abrupt and argumentative – growing up in a basically stupid world really gets my goat and I shout loudly – please don’t take it personally – I don’t know you and am just calling shots on what’s written in emails (all info we have to go on anyway). regards Andrew Barnes victoria leggett [tipples78] 14 December 2004 19:55 Subject: Re: vegan families what about my partner who is too an adult? or should i just ask him to leave??Anna Blaine <anna333 wrote: I think the grownup who's doing the cooking should get to decide how the family eats. That's the adult's job - to make sure their children are eating properly. -Anna - Peter 12/13/2004 5:35:35 PM Re: vegan families Hi Victoria > exactly! my kids are 8 and 9 so they cant cook for themselves! i will cook what they want untill the time they leave home, > whatever it may be! What if they wanted you to cook human flesh? Or, how about dog or cat? As a question for anyone who feels so inclined to answer... what would people consider to be the ethical boundary they would not cross when it comes to feeding their children? For me, it would be that I would not prepare a non-vegan meal for anyone. If people want to eat meat / dairy, I would have no inclination to prevent them from doing so, but I would not provide it for them. BB Peter To send an email to - To send an email to - Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Messenger To send an email to - ______________________This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. Theservice is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactiveanti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:http://www.star.net.uk______________________ This message is confidential and is intended for the addressee only; unless clearly stated that this disclaimer should not apply, this e-mail is not intended to create legally binding commitments on behalf of FDM Group Plc, nor do its contents reflect the corporate views or policies of FDM. Any unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination, either whole or partial, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of the message, please notify the sender immediately.______________________This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. Theservice is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactiveanti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:http://www.star.net.uk______________________To send an email to - Peter H Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Messenger To send an email to - ______________________This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. Theservice is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactiveanti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:http://www.star.net.uk______________________ To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 19, 2004 i wish my family were as easy going, no hope in converting them, although i do try!Jo bb <Heartwork wrote: Hi NancyI think you are managing feeding your family very well. I'm sure it willwork out well.Jo>> I thought I'd chime in here on vegan families (as well as in> response to Vijay's comment on people not posting ;-)).>> My family became vegetarian a few years ago. I'd never really cared> for meat and one night when I was cooking I said to my family - "I> would like for us to be vegetarian. I promise I will cook you good> food and you won't be deprived. You can order whatever you want in> restaurants but at home no meat. Please go along with me on this"> and so they did. My older daughter (now 15) really likes meat> (well, chicken) and will still order it occasionally.>> Earlier this year my younger daughter (13) declared she wanted to> become vegan. That is when I joined this list. I felt as though I> had to support her 100% (down to FedEx-ing her some more rice milk> at camp when she ran out)- how could I say we should be vegetarian> but you can't take it any further than that? Everyone told me "it's> a phase, she'll never make it" etc. We eat primarly vegan meals now> as a family. I feel the need to still consider my older daughter's> feelings however. I think a consistent and gentle exposure to the> ideals of veganism will be the most effective. That is what I'm> choosing for my family.>> I probably use more meat substitutes than I would choose for myself> because it allows me to make some meals that my older daughter> really craves. I've pretty much managed to come up with recipes> that mimic everything I've ever cooked.>> I realize for some people it may be more black and white but this> approach is working for my family.>> nancy>>>>>>> To send an email to - > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 19, 2004 Jo, I was branded intolerant and self-opinionated. Do you intend to direct your comments at Peter also? What part of my conversation was impolite? – I was specifically asked a question which I answered in a truthful way. And, Almost to my amusement, in following several notes that say ‘it is other peoples business if they choose to eat animals’ (which I assume you to as you are directing comments at me) my rebuttal would be “what has this conversation got to do with you?” rgds Jo bb [Heartwork] 19 December 2004 18:35 Re: vegan families Andy Can you please keep your conversation polite and refrain from being rude or accusative to other members of the list. Jo - Andrew Barnes Sunday, December 19, 2004 3:01 PM RE: vegan families Yes I do find life very black and white. And I am very tired of ‘liberal vegans’. You asked me if I think you are less of a person because you do tolerate meat eaters. YES I absolutely DO. In the same way I share an intolerance of rapists & murderers. I think we need more vegans who are intolerant of these completely self obsessed people who only think of themselves in what they buy (human & animal rights), and frankly (I am being frank) being tolerant of them only serves to allow them not to bother thinking about the wrongs they are doing the rest of society. Burst my bubble? No, you have sussed me out perfectly. Rgds, Andy peter hurd [swpgh01] 18 December 2004 15:48 RE: vegan families Boy life seems black and white to you doesnt it? You wouldnt live with anyone who wasnt a vegan? Tolerance not your middle name then , is it? As a rule I wouldn’t expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat. It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist. You wouldnt expect it? very self opinionated arent you? Whilst I agree that we are talking a belief system here we are not talking religion , or are we?. Sorry to burst your bubble , but unless you live in a high density population area, you are very likely to be the only vegan around, and therefore either share with someone with different beleifs/religion ...or be very alone. Are you the vegan police or something, does it make you a better vegan to be less tolrant of other peoples beliefs? I have been a vegan for over 20 years, and for all my life shared a home with non vegans, does this make me less of a person because of it? Peace , Love and understanding to all, The Valley Vegan..... If he eats meat – yes – boot him out (Being flippant) Generally if one is vegan it is not because one ‘want’ to be, rather - ‘forced’ to be because of what you know. In the same way that people happily buy products at GAP and at ADIDAS etc until they are told about the horrible regimes that exist to make those clothes and then they shop elsewhere. I am a life vegan – 24 years and I wouldn’t live with anyone else who wasn’t. I suppose if you have only started the move to vegaism recently it’s different (never done it). As a rule I wouldn’t expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat. It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist. Sorry if I am abrupt and argumentative – growing up in a basically stupid world really gets my goat and I shout loudly – please don’t take it personally – I don’t know you and am just calling shots on what’s written in emails (all info we have to go on anyway). regards Andrew Barnes victoria leggett [tipples78] 14 December 2004 19:55 Re: vegan families what about my partner who is too an adult? or should i just ask him to leave?? Anna Blaine <anna333 wrote: I think the grownup who's doing the cooking should get to decide how the family eats. That's the adult's job - to make sure their children are eating properly. -Anna - Peter 12/13/2004 5:35:35 PM Re: vegan families Hi Victoria > exactly! my kids are 8 and 9 so they cant cook for themselves! i will cook what they want untill the time they leave home, > whatever it may be! What if they wanted you to cook human flesh? Or, how about dog or cat? As a question for anyone who feels so inclined to answer... what would people consider to be the ethical boundary they would not cross when it comes to feeding their children? For me, it would be that I would not prepare a non-vegan meal for anyone. If people want to eat meat / dairy, I would have no inclination to prevent them from doing so, but I would not provide it for them. BB Peter To send an email to - To send an email to - Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Messenger To send an email to - ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ This message is confidential and is intended for the addressee only; unless clearly stated that this disclaimer should not apply, this e-mail is not intended to create legally binding commitments on behalf of FDM Group Plc, nor do its contents reflect the corporate views or policies of FDM. Any unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination, either whole or partial, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of the message, please notify the sender immediately. ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ To send an email to - Peter H Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Messenger To send an email to - ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ To send an email to - To send an email to - ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Andrew I am responding on Jo's e-mail address as I am currently visiting and do not have immediate access to my own e-mail. Firstly. What it has to do with Jo is that she is a moderator on the list. Both she and Fraggle (who is also a moderator) have politely pointed out that you have crossed the line. I will now add my comments as moderator and owner of the list. We have only one rule - that conversation is always kept polite and free from abuse / aggression. You have crossed that line with both of your last two posts. If you post any further abusive or aggressive comments, you will be put on immediate moderation, and if you persist after that you may be removed from the list. I hope this clarifies the situation. Peter - Andrew Barnes Sunday, December 19, 2004 10:07 PM RE: vegan families Jo, I was branded intolerant and self-opinionated. Do you intend to direct your comments at Peter also? What part of my conversation was impolite? – I was specifically asked a question which I answered in a truthful way. And, Almost to my amusement, in following several notes that say ‘it is other peoples business if they choose to eat animals’ (which I assume you to as you are directing comments at me) my rebuttal would be “what has this conversation got to do with you?” rgds Jo bb [Heartwork] 19 December 2004 18:35 Subject: Re: vegan families Andy Can you please keep your conversation polite and refrain from being rude or accusative to other members of the list. Jo - Andrew Barnes Sunday, December 19, 2004 3:01 PM RE: vegan families Yes I do find life very black and white. And I am very tired of ‘liberal vegans’. You asked me if I think you are less of a person because you do tolerate meat eaters. YES I absolutely DO. In the same way I share an intolerance of rapists & murderers. I think we need more vegans who are intolerant of these completely self obsessed people who only think of themselves in what they buy (human & animal rights), and frankly (I am being frank) being tolerant of them only serves to allow them not to bother thinking about the wrongs they are doing the rest of society. Burst my bubble? No, you have sussed me out perfectly. Rgds, Andy peter hurd [swpgh01] 18 December 2004 15:48 Subject: RE: vegan families Boy life seems black and white to you doesnt it? You wouldnt live with anyone who wasnt a vegan? Tolerance not your middle name then , is it? As a rule I wouldn’t expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat. It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist. You wouldnt expect it? very self opinionated arent you? Whilst I agree that we are talking a belief system here we are not talking religion , or are we?. Sorry to burst your bubble , but unless you live in a high density population area, you are very likely to be the only vegan around, and therefore either share with someone with different beleifs/religion ...or be very alone. Are you the vegan police or something, does it make you a better vegan to be less tolrant of other peoples beliefs? I have been a vegan for over 20 years, and for all my life shared a home with non vegans, does this make me less of a person because of it? Peace , Love and understanding to all, The Valley Vegan..... If he eats meat – yes – boot him out (Being flippant) Generally if one is vegan it is not because one ‘want’ to be, rather - ‘forced’ to be because of what you know. In the same way that people happily buy products at GAP and at ADIDAS etc until they are told about the horrible regimes that exist to make those clothes and then they shop elsewhere. I am a life vegan – 24 years and I wouldn’t live with anyone else who wasn’t. I suppose if you have only started the move to vegaism recently it’s different (never done it). As a rule I wouldn’t expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat. It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist. Sorry if I am abrupt and argumentative – growing up in a basically stupid world really gets my goat and I shout loudly – please don’t take it personally – I don’t know you and am just calling shots on what’s written in emails (all info we have to go on anyway). regards Andrew Barnes victoria leggett [tipples78] 14 December 2004 19:55 Subject: Re: vegan families what about my partner who is too an adult? or should i just ask him to leave??Anna Blaine <anna333 wrote: I think the grownup who's doing the cooking should get to decide how the family eats. That's the adult's job - to make sure their children are eating properly. -Anna - Peter 12/13/2004 5:35:35 PM Re: vegan families Hi Victoria > exactly! my kids are 8 and 9 so they cant cook for themselves! i will cook what they want untill the time they leave home, > whatever it may be! What if they wanted you to cook human flesh? Or, how about dog or cat? As a question for anyone who feels so inclined to answer... what would people consider to be the ethical boundary they would not cross when it comes to feeding their children? For me, it would be that I would not prepare a non-vegan meal for anyone. If people want to eat meat / dairy, I would have no inclination to prevent them from doing so, but I would not provide it for them. BB Peter To send an email to - To send an email to - Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Messenger To send an email to - ______________________This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. Theservice is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactiveanti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:http://www.star.net.uk______________________ This message is confidential and is intended for the addressee only; unless clearly stated that this disclaimer should not apply, this e-mail is not intended to create legally binding commitments on behalf of FDM Group Plc, nor do its contents reflect the corporate views or policies of FDM. Any unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination, either whole or partial, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of the message, please notify the sender immediately.______________________This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. Theservice is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactiveanti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:http://www.star.net.uk______________________To send an email to - Peter H Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Messenger To send an email to - ______________________This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. Theservice is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactiveanti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:http://www.star.net.uk______________________ To send an email to - To send an email to - ______________________This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. Theservice is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactiveanti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:http://www.star.net.uk______________________To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Two ex-GFs vegan? How? I only managed one going from pisco-veggie to veggie ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 most of my ex's from the past 15 yrs went veggie/vegan of course..most of em went abck to being flesh eaters again sometime after we broke up *sigh* Ian McDonald Dec 19, 2004 4:45 PM Re: vegan families Two ex-GFs vegan?How? I only managed one going from pisco-veggie to veggie ...To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > If they went back to eating flesh after breaking with you then they didn't sincerely believe in veganism then. Either that or they had a relapse. Vijay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Peter: > We have only one rule - that conversation is always kept polite and > free from abuse / aggression. You have crossed that line with both of your last two posts. Peter, Jo, Fraggle, It's good that you're trying to keep the list polite, but Peter *is* being blatantly one-sided. The rules should apply to moderators as well, and Peter's post of Sat, 18 Dec 2004 was almost entirely an ad hominem attack on Andrew; in comparison, Andrew's posts haven't been more than a strongly worded point of view. (I could have missed something, but I thought the worst he said was that Peter was 'less of a person' for tolerating non-vegans so much; but Peter invited him to make that comment.) Sorry, but it's hard to escape the perception that the list owner isn't applying the rules to himself. Ian PS Some might ask why I took this issue straight to the list rather than air it privately with the moderators. The answer is - not knowing Peter, and Jo that well - there's always a risk that if I raise the topics privately, Peter would put me on moderation and block posts about them. Who knows, I might be put on moderation myself in the near future? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Andrew Barnes wrote: > > How is it their business? > > There are three parties involved in this judgement. 'I', 'You', 'others' > (animals). I was just about to say that myself. Of course, we've all got to live in the same world as them. My attitude to non-veggies is that no-one's perfect, and I shouldn't make veganism a qualification for my friendship. But that doesn't mean that I think my omnivorous friends aren't doing anything wrong when they purchase meat. Meanwhile, back on the topic. Victoria turned vegan a few weeks ago, which means that bringing the children up vegan was never part of the plan when she and her partner started the family. What about vegetarianism, Victoria? Were you veggie when you made a decision to raise a family together? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Andrew, I can understand your frustration, all my life, I've had to explain, apologize, hide, make amends for, my vegetarianism/veganism. I've been made fun of, teased, and downright harrased by meat eaters, especially in the lunch cafeteria at work situaations. people have made comments to me like " I've just had Bambi for breakfast " . or " ANOTHER Salad? " or " aren't you concerned that you are depriving your children of nutrition? " (this comment, was made to me by my mother in law, after seeing the ice cream truck go by, she offered to buy for the children, I said no thanks) or me keeping my mouth shut after all of my coworkers were admiring a new (fur coat) that another coworker just bought. Where I live right now, there is a popular bumper sticker that reads, Vegetarian is an Indian word for bad hunter. Andrew, I would say that if we were to switch the word, vegan harrasment instead of sexual harrasment,(which I feel, is similar to me) It would be prohibited. -anouk , " Andrew Barnes " <andrew.barnes@f...> wrote: > How is it their business? > > There are three parties involved in this judgement. 'I', 'You', 'others' > (animals). > > For example; would you happily observe a family who has their child as a > chimney sweep and say 'it's their business'? > No of course not - so why does everyone here seem to think it is ok to say - > 'you kill animals - your choice' > > Don't any of you think that the meat industry etc. is morally wrong? > > Personal choice exists when it doesn't hurt anyone else. > > Andy > > > > Catherine Harris [cait2@h...] > 19 December 2004 01:40 > > RE: vegan families > > > wow > > some judgemental stuff here boy!! > > i have many friends of vegan veggie and meat eater life choices......i > choose not to open my fridge and have meat products staring out at > me.......its my home my choice!!! > > what any one else does is their business!! > > catherine > > >peter hurd <swpgh01@t...> > > > > > >RE: vegan families > >Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:47:44 +0000 (GMT) > > > >Boy life seems black and white to you doesnt it? > >You wouldnt live with anyone who wasnt a vegan? > >Tolerance not your middle name then , is it? > > > > > >As a rule I wouldn't expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living > >with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat. > > > >It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist. > > > >You wouldnt expect it? very self opinionated arent you? > > > >Whilst I agree that we are talking a belief system here we are not talking > >religion , or are we?. > > > >Sorry to burst your bubble , but unless you live in a high density > >population area, you are very likely to be the only vegan around, and > >therefore either share with someone with different beleifs/religion ...or > >be very alone. > > > >Are you the vegan police or something, does it make you a better vegan to > >be less tolrant of other peoples beliefs? > > > >I have been a vegan for over 20 years, and for all my life shared a home > >with non vegans, does this make me less of a person because of it? > > > >Peace , Love and understanding to all, > > > >The Valley Vegan..... > > > > > >v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url (#default#VML);}w\:* > >{behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape > >{behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) > >}st2\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } > >If he eats meat - yes - boot him out > > > > > > > >(Being flippant) > > > > > > > >Generally if one is vegan it is not because one 'want' to be, rather - > >'forced' to be because of what you know. > > > > > > > >In the same way that people happily buy products at GAP and at ADIDAS etc > >until they are told about the horrible regimes that exist to make those > >clothes and then they shop elsewhere. > > > > > > > >I am a life vegan - 24 years and I wouldn't live with anyone else who > >wasn't. I suppose if you have only started the move to vegaism recently > >it's different (never done it). > > > >As a rule I wouldn't expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living > >with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat. > > > >It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist. > > > > > > > >Sorry if I am abrupt and argumentative - growing up in a basically stupid > >world really gets my goat and I shout loudly - please don't take it > >personally - I don't know you and am just calling shots on what's written > >in emails (all info we have to go on anyway). > > > > > > > >regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Andrew Barnes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >victoria leggett [tipples78] > >14 December 2004 19:55 > > > >Re: vegan families > > > > > > > > > >what about my partner who is too an adult? or should i just ask him to > >leave?? > > > >Anna Blaine <anna333@e...> wrote: > > > >I think the grownup who's doing the cooking should get to decide how the > >family eats. That's the adult's job - to make sure their children are > >eating properly. > > > > > > > > > > > >-Anna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >- > > > > > >Peter > > > > > > > > > > > >12/13/2004 5:35:35 PM > > > > > >Re: vegan families > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi Victoria > > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly! my kids are 8 and 9 so they cant cook for themselves! i will > >cook what they want untill the time they leave home, > > > > > > > whatever it may be! > > > > > > > > > > > >What if they wanted you to cook human flesh? Or, how about dog or cat? > > > > > > > > > > > >As a question for anyone who feels so inclined to answer... what would > >people consider to be the ethical boundary they would not cross when it > >comes to feeding their children? > > > > > > > > > > > >For me, it would be that I would not prepare a non-vegan meal for anyone. > >If people want to eat meat / dairy, I would have no inclination to prevent > >them from doing so, but I would not provide it for them. > > > > > > > > > > > >BB > > > > > >Peter > > > > > > > > > >To send an email to - > > > > > > > > > > > >To send an email to - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Messenger > > > >To send an email to - > > > > > > > > > >___________________ ___ > >This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The > >service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > >anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > >http://www.star.net.uk > >___________________ ___ > > > > > > > >This message is confidential and is intended for the addressee only; unless > > >clearly stated that this disclaimer should not apply, this e-mail is not > >intended to create legally binding commitments on behalf of FDM Group Plc, > >nor do its contents reflect the corporate views or policies of FDM. Any > >unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination, either whole or partial, is > >prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of the message, please > >notify the sender immediately. > >___________________ ___ > >This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > >service is powered by MessageLabs. 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Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 wow, my husband and I have these kind of arguments/disagreements all the time. He is vegetarian and brings lots of cheese and eggs into the house. but the thing is that I am already in love with him, I fell in love with him in college when we were both vegetarian. to him, I sound militant, but what can I do? Divorce? impossible. I already love him. but, If I were single today and looking for a soul mate, I probably would reject dating Meat Eaters completely. Because, I have very strong convictions, about veganism/animal rights and It probably wouldn't work out. , Ian McDonald <ian@m...> wrote: > Peter: > > We have only one rule - that conversation is always kept polite and > > free from abuse / aggression. You have crossed that line with both of your last two posts. > > Peter, Jo, Fraggle, > > It's good that you're trying to keep the list polite, but Peter *is* > being blatantly one-sided. The rules should apply to moderators as well, > and Peter's post of Sat, 18 Dec 2004 was almost entirely an ad hominem > attack on Andrew; in comparison, Andrew's posts haven't been more than a > strongly worded point of view. (I could have missed something, but I > thought the worst he said was that Peter was 'less of a person' for > tolerating non-vegans so much; but Peter invited him to make that > comment.) > > Sorry, but it's hard to escape the perception that the list owner isn't > applying the rules to himself. > > Ian > > PS Some might ask why I took this issue straight to the list rather than > air it privately with the moderators. The answer is - not knowing Peter, > and Jo that well - there's always a risk that if I raise the topics > privately, Peter would put me on moderation and block posts about them. > Who knows, I might be put on moderation myself in the near future? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Ian I felt Andrew's attitude to be aggressive towards people who share their lives with meat-eaters. Of course people have their own opinions, but I do not wish members of the group to offend each other, and I felt that Peter's (Valley Vegan) reply was in response to an email which he found offensive. You say that you do not really know Peter well, but you are one of our long-term members, and are fully aware of the style of moderation. I am hopeful that your comments on the list owner are pedantic rather than intentional stirring. These opinions are my own. Peter and Fraggle will have their own opinions. Jo > Peter, Jo, Fraggle, > > > PS Some might ask why I took this issue straight to the list rather than > air it privately with the moderators. The answer is - not knowing Peter, > and Jo that well - there's always a risk that if I raise the topics > privately, Peter would put me on moderation and block posts about them. > Who knows, I might be put on moderation myself in the near future? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Anouk Sickler wrote: > > > Where I live right now, there is a popular bumper sticker that reads, > Vegetarian is an Indian word for bad hunter. > Where do you live? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 I am hopeful that your comments on the list owner are pedantic rather than intentional stirring. Andrew Barnes heartwerk [Heartwork] 20 December 2004 09:01 Re: vegan families Ian I felt Andrew's attitude to be aggressive towards people who share their lives with meat-eaters. Of course people have their own opinions, but I do not wish members of the group to offend each other, and I felt that Peter's (Valley Vegan) reply was in response to an email which he found offensive. You say that you do not really know Peter well, but you are one of our long-term members, and are fully aware of the style of moderation. I am hopeful that your comments on the list owner are pedantic rather than intentional stirring. These opinions are my own. Peter and Fraggle will have their own opinions. Jo > Peter, Jo, Fraggle, > > > PS Some might ask why I took this issue straight to the list rather than > air it privately with the moderators. The answer is - not knowing Peter, > and Jo that well - there's always a risk that if I raise the topics > privately, Peter would put me on moderation and block posts about them. > Who knows, I might be put on moderation myself in the near future? To send an email to - ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ This message is confidential and is intended for the addressee only; unless clearly stated that this disclaimer should not apply, this e-mail is not intended to create legally binding commitments on behalf of FDM Group Plc, nor do its contents reflect the corporate views or policies of FDM. Any unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination, either whole or partial, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of the message, please notify the sender immediately. ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Peter, Then you understand my point? Jo as moderator was sticking up for a friend on the list. Person (a) was aggressive. Person (b) was offended. Person © intervened. Translate Human was aggressive (a) Animal was eaten (b) Human intervened © You are intervening as I have done – why are you offended at this action. YOU have confirmed the protocol that says; when one sees wrong doings one intervenes rather than turns their back. I don’t know how clear I can make this. Andrew Barnes Jo bb [Heartwork] 20 December 2004 00:03 Re: vegan families Andrew I am responding on Jo's e-mail address as I am currently visiting and do not have immediate access to my own e-mail. Firstly. What it has to do with Jo is that she is a moderator on the list. Both she and Fraggle (who is also a moderator) have politely pointed out that you have crossed the line. I will now add my comments as moderator and owner of the list. We have only one rule - that conversation is always kept polite and free from abuse / aggression. You have crossed that line with both of your last two posts. If you post any further abusive or aggressive comments, you will be put on immediate moderation, and if you persist after that you may be removed from the list. I hope this clarifies the situation. Peter ----- Original Message ----- Andrew Barnes Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 10:07 PM Subject: RE: vegan families Jo, I was branded intolerant and self-opinionated. Do you intend to direct your comments at Peter also? What part of my conversation was impolite? – I was specifically asked a question which I answered in a truthful way. And, Almost to my amusement, in following several notes that say ‘it is other peoples business if they choose to eat animals’ (which I assume you to as you are directing comments at me) my rebuttal would be “what has this conversation got to do with you?” rgds Jo bb [Heartwork] 19 December 2004 18:35 Re: vegan families Andy Can you please keep your conversation polite and refrain from being rude or accusative to other members of the list. Jo ----- Original Message ----- Andrew Barnes Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 3:01 PM Subject: RE: vegan families Yes I do find life very black and white. And I am very tired of ‘liberal vegans’. You asked me if I think you are less of a person because you do tolerate meat eaters. YES I absolutely DO. In the same way I share an intolerance of rapists & murderers. I think we need more vegans who are intolerant of these completely self obsessed people who only think of themselves in what they buy (human & animal rights), and frankly (I am being frank) being tolerant of them only serves to allow them not to bother thinking about the wrongs they are doing the rest of society. Burst my bubble? No, you have sussed me out perfectly. Rgds, Andy peter hurd [swpgh01] 18 December 2004 15:48 RE: vegan families Boy life seems black and white to you doesnt it? You wouldnt live with anyone who wasnt a vegan? Tolerance not your middle name then , is it? As a rule I wouldn’t expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat. It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist. You wouldnt expect it? very self opinionated arent you? Whilst I agree that we are talking a belief system here we are not talking religion , or are we?. Sorry to burst your bubble , but unless you live in a high density population area, you are very likely to be the only vegan around, and therefore either share with someone with different beleifs/religion ...or be very alone. Are you the vegan police or something, does it make you a better vegan to be less tolrant of other peoples beliefs? I have been a vegan for over 20 years, and for all my life shared a home with non vegans, does this make me less of a person because of it? Peace , Love and understanding to all, The Valley Vegan..... If he eats meat – yes – boot him out (Being flippant) Generally if one is vegan it is not because one ‘want’ to be, rather - ‘forced’ to be because of what you know. In the same way that people happily buy products at GAP and at ADIDAS etc until they are told about the horrible regimes that exist to make those clothes and then they shop elsewhere. I am a life vegan – 24 years and I wouldn’t live with anyone else who wasn’t. I suppose if you have only started the move to vegaism recently it’s different (never done it). As a rule I wouldn’t expect vegans to be capable of cooking/living with/sharing a fridge with people who eat meat. It is akin to a bible basher living with a Satanist. Sorry if I am abrupt and argumentative – growing up in a basically stupid world really gets my goat and I shout loudly – please don’t take it personally – I don’t know you and am just calling shots on what’s written in emails (all info we have to go on anyway). regards Andrew Barnes victoria leggett [tipples78] 14 December 2004 19:55 Re: vegan families what about my partner who is too an adult? or should i just ask him to leave?? Anna Blaine <anna333 wrote: I think the grownup who's doing the cooking should get to decide how the family eats. That's the adult's job - to make sure their children are eating properly. -Anna ----- Original Message ----- Peter Sent: 12/13/2004 5:35:35 PM Subject: Re: vegan families Hi Victoria > exactly! my kids are 8 and 9 so they cant cook for themselves! i will cook what they want untill the time they leave home, > whatever it may be! What if they wanted you to cook human flesh? Or, how about dog or cat? As a question for anyone who feels so inclined to answer... what would people consider to be the ethical boundary they would not cross when it comes to feeding their children? For me, it would be that I would not prepare a non-vegan meal for anyone. If people want to eat meat / dairy, I would have no inclination to prevent them from doing so, but I would not provide it for them. BB Peter To send an email to - To send an email to - Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Messenger To send an email to - ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ This message is confidential and is intended for the addressee only; unless clearly stated that this disclaimer should not apply, this e-mail is not intended to create legally binding commitments on behalf of FDM Group Plc, nor do its contents reflect the corporate views or policies of FDM. Any unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination, either whole or partial, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of the message, please notify the sender immediately. ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ To send an email to - Peter H Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Messenger To send an email to - ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ To send an email to - To send an email to - ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ To send an email to - To send an email to - ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ This message is confidential and is intended for the addressee only; unless clearly stated that this disclaimer should not apply, this e-mail is not intended to create legally binding commitments on behalf of FDM Group Plc, nor do its contents reflect the corporate views or policies of FDM. Any unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination, either whole or partial, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of the message, please notify the sender immediately. ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 me...opinions??..nahh.... heartwerk Dec 20, 2004 1:00 AM Re: vegan families IanI felt Andrew's attitude to be aggressive towards people who share their lives with meat-eaters. Of course people have their own opinions, but I do not wish members of the group to offend each other, and I felt that Peter's (Valley Vegan) reply was in response to an email which he found offensive.You say that you do not really know Peter well, but you are one of our long-term members, and are fully aware of the style of moderation. I am hopeful that your comments on the list owner are pedantic rather than intentional stirring.These opinions are my own. Peter and Fraggle will have their own opinions.Jo> Peter, Jo, Fraggle,> > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Yeah, I'm impressed. My track record to much worse. One vegan I dated has since gone to all-out omnivore. One has gone vegetarian, though. sara , Ian McDonald <ian@m...> wrote: > Two ex-GFs vegan? > > How? I only managed one going from pisco-veggie to veggie ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Depends on if they were vegan for you or for vegans sake. Sara [gagrip5] 20 December 2004 19:35 Re: vegan families Yeah, I'm impressed. My track record to much worse. One vegan I dated has since gone to all-out omnivore. One has gone vegetarian, though. sara , Ian McDonald <ian@m...> wrote: > Two ex-GFs vegan? > > How? I only managed one going from pisco-veggie to veggie ... To send an email to - ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
