Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Hi Fraggle > does that make all americans bad today? no..but, we here in this > country are still responsible fer wot our govt and corporations do in > our name... At the risk of continuing the argument further.... when Britain was an imperialist power, the " people " had absolutely no say in what their government did - the ordinary person didn't even have a vote - we were ruled by a dictatorship of the aristocracy. Now, I know that America isn't much different right now, but there is a difference in that ordinary British people were not even under the misapprehension that we had a say, whereas modern America is ruled by (supposedly) elected representatives. BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.538 / Virus Database: 333 - Release 10/11/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Hi, As used to cause my mother used to despair when I was young, I have appalling posture...I can lounge practically anywhere! John - Catherine Harris <cait2 Tuesday, November 25, 2003 12:10 PM Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey > hi john lol.................how do you manage to lounge on an office chair, are you double jointed????? > > catherine > > > > > " John Davis " > > > >To: > >Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey > >Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:43:27 -0000 > > > >I stand corrected! Well, lounge in an office chair corrected, anyway. Sadly > >I didn't get to know any welshwomen as well as I might have liked... > > > >John > >- > >Catherine Harris > >To: > >Sunday, November 23, 2003 3:22 PM > >Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey > > > > > > > ah but john, i am a welshwoman............ > > > > > > catherine > > > > > > > > > > > > > " John Davis " > > > > > > > >To: > > > >Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey > > > >Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:01:23 -0000 > > > > > > > >And there was me thinking the Welsh for xenophobic is Welshman. > > > > > > > >Sorry, couldn't help myself. > > > > > > > >Joke, by the way. As told me by a friend from the Valleys. > > > > > > > >Though that said, whilst living in Wales for five years not once was I > >made > > > >to feel anything but unwanted. > > > > > > > >John > > > >- > > > >Catherine Harris > > > >To: > > > >Saturday, November 22, 2003 3:44 PM > > > >Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi valley vegan > > > > > > > > > > the welsh for xenophobic is saesneg.............. > > > > > > > > > > cymru am byth > > > > > > > > > > catherine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >swpgh01 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey > > > > > >Sat, 22 Nov 2003 15:33:30 GMT+00:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I always thought that the English were a bunch of mongrels, and I too > > > >like Catherine consider myself from a purer breed Celts ( I am sure the > > > >first and last two letters were right!). Obviously I am not as well > >educated > > > >to study DNA, recumbent or not???! > > > > > >Oh dear now I am waffling again, > > > > > >P.S. Whats welsh for xenophobic? > > > > > >The valley vegan..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Peter H > > > > > > > > > > > >-------------------- > > > > > >talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at > > > >http://www.talk21.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- > > > >------ > > > > > Win your pick of these top prizes - a parachute jump, a VIP night out, > >or > > > >a day at a health spa, for you and three mates. Find out how you can win > > > >with MSN Messenger. > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2003 I don't think all the normal people of America today are responsible for what the government is doing. After all Bush wasn't even voted in. Now, as I don't know which American people support the invasion of Iraq and which don't I couldn't possibly say that all Americans should be held responsible. The same applies with the English people, who obviously did not vote in the rulers who invaded other countries. I don't see why I should be held responsible for what anyone else does when I wouldn't invade a field, let alone another country. I have never been nationalistic. I can see no point in being such, on anyones part, but when generalisations are made about a nationality, i.e. the English are oppressors, it does tend to offend me - not because I feel English people are better than others, as they are not, but because when a generalisation is made it infers that those attributes apply to every single English person, including me, which obviously is untrue. Jo Jo > *sighs* > this is all sorta gettin weird > but..fer my 2 pesos... > in broad sweeping generalist terms, the english were an imperalist > power, who dominated other " peoples " of the world fer a long time.. > just like America and american policies do today... > does that make all americans bad today? no..but, we here in this > country are still responsible fer wot our govt and corporations do in > our name... > nationalism is an easy thing to get folks riled up, and cloud issues > and facts... > wave a flag, and all yer problems disappear..its never yer fault, its > always " those folks " over there... > on the other hand..people all over the world have felt repressed, > powerless, and generally oppressed, and wish to..reclaim their > heritage, speech, etc and so forth... --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.538 / Virus Database: 333 - Release 10/11/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2003 is there an English culture? How long have you got Jo? I think there is a lot of English thats kind of been forgotten which I think is really sad. Heartwork [Heartwork]28 November 2003 16:58 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey Is there an English culture? In England St Patrick's day is celebrated and St David's. I would be interested to know what English culture consists of. Jo - Lee Delaney Friday, November 28, 2003 9:53 AM RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey Because there are many people in many countries who have suffered due to British imperialism, which English industries and politics particularly dominated, and in Britain non-English culture has been next to wiped out. We all speak English not British, the language follows the movement of trade.... Heartwork [Heartwork]27 November 2003 17:42 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey That may be the case - but if so why would that cause people to stick up for any other country against England in sporting fixtures? Jo - Lee Delaney Thursday, November 27, 2003 10:15 AM RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey I don't think thats what was being implied Jo, at least thats not how I was reading it as we were talking about the English ruling class. I don't see any implication that there is no English working class that isn't exploited in the same way as sCottish/Irish/Welsh working class people. I think what you're talking about occurs in all countries and its what makes nationalism even more ridiculous and backward. Lee Heartwork [Heartwork]26 November 2003 17:36 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey English children worked in mines and factories too. Sometime later in the 1920s my dad along with millions of other working people couldn't get work - I remember him saying that if he hadn't earned money that day - he wouldn't eat (as a matter of principle!) because he didn't want to be a burden to his family. No wonder he was so skinny. As a member of a long line of fairly poor working people - I get a little niggled by the assumption that all us English people are rich and uncaring and the rest of Britain are hard-done-by. Jo royalty...aristocracy....anyone with private income hasnt earned it with sweat of their brow like i assume we all have to............................ anyone who made serious money out of the industrial revolution..............they built west londons white christmas cake houses whilst children worked in mines, iron works, factories........ catherine >"Lee Delaney" > > >RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey >Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:27:18 -0000 > >David and Victoria Beckham > > Peter [metalscarab] > 24 November 2003 17:19 > > Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey > > > Hi Lee > > > couldn't have put this better myself, although I would also add that the >economic union that is Britain has benefited the English > > ruling class most of all as while taxes may be seen to go more towards >Scotland, Wales or NI, the use of resources from those > > countries I think far outweighs any of that. > > Not quite sure who you mean by the English ruling classes - perhaps you >could suggest a few names? > > BB > Peter > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.538 / Virus Database: 333 - Release 10/11/03 > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Hi Lee I think there must be (and yes - I have time :-) ). Jo - Lee Delaney Monday, December 01, 2003 11:46 AM RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey is there an English culture? How long have you got Jo? I think there is a lot of English thats kind of been forgotten which I think is really sad. Heartwork [Heartwork]28 November 2003 16:58 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey Is there an English culture? In England St Patrick's day is celebrated and St David's. I would be interested to know what English culture consists of. Jo - Lee Delaney Friday, November 28, 2003 9:53 AM RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey Because there are many people in many countries who have suffered due to British imperialism, which English industries and politics particularly dominated, and in Britain non-English culture has been next to wiped out. We all speak English not British, the language follows the movement of trade.... Heartwork [Heartwork]27 November 2003 17:42 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey That may be the case - but if so why would that cause people to stick up for any other country against England in sporting fixtures? Jo - Lee Delaney Thursday, November 27, 2003 10:15 AM RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey I don't think thats what was being implied Jo, at least thats not how I was reading it as we were talking about the English ruling class. I don't see any implication that there is no English working class that isn't exploited in the same way as sCottish/Irish/Welsh working class people. I think what you're talking about occurs in all countries and its what makes nationalism even more ridiculous and backward. Lee Heartwork [Heartwork]26 November 2003 17:36 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey English children worked in mines and factories too. Sometime later in the 1920s my dad along with millions of other working people couldn't get work - I remember him saying that if he hadn't earned money that day - he wouldn't eat (as a matter of principle!) because he didn't want to be a burden to his family. No wonder he was so skinny. As a member of a long line of fairly poor working people - I get a little niggled by the assumption that all us English people are rich and uncaring and the rest of Britain are hard-done-by. Jo royalty...aristocracy....anyone with private income hasnt earned it with sweat of their brow like i assume we all have to............................ anyone who made serious money out of the industrial revolution..............they built west londons white christmas cake houses whilst children worked in mines, iron works, factories........ catherine >"Lee Delaney" > > >RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey >Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:27:18 -0000 > >David and Victoria Beckham > > Peter [metalscarab] > 24 November 2003 17:19 > > Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey > > > Hi Lee > > > couldn't have put this better myself, although I would also add that the >economic union that is Britain has benefited the English > > ruling class most of all as while taxes may be seen to go more towards >Scotland, Wales or NI, the use of resources from those > > countries I think far outweighs any of that. > > Not quite sure who you mean by the English ruling classes - perhaps you >could suggest a few names? > > BB > Peter > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.538 / Virus Database: 333 - Release 10/11/03 > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 10, 2003 well I like some Northern folk music, like Kate Rusby and Eliza Carthy. I'm getting deja vu there, ahve I already mentioned that? Hmmmm. What do you do at xmas by the way? Is it winter solstice or something like that? Heartwork [Heartwork]01 December 2003 17:43 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey Hi Lee I think there must be (and yes - I have time :-) ). Jo - Lee Delaney Monday, December 01, 2003 11:46 AM RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey is there an English culture? How long have you got Jo? I think there is a lot of English thats kind of been forgotten which I think is really sad. Heartwork [Heartwork]28 November 2003 16:58 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey Is there an English culture? In England St Patrick's day is celebrated and St David's. I would be interested to know what English culture consists of. Jo - Lee Delaney Friday, November 28, 2003 9:53 AM RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey Because there are many people in many countries who have suffered due to British imperialism, which English industries and politics particularly dominated, and in Britain non-English culture has been next to wiped out. We all speak English not British, the language follows the movement of trade.... Heartwork [Heartwork]27 November 2003 17:42 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey That may be the case - but if so why would that cause people to stick up for any other country against England in sporting fixtures? Jo - Lee Delaney Thursday, November 27, 2003 10:15 AM RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey I don't think thats what was being implied Jo, at least thats not how I was reading it as we were talking about the English ruling class. I don't see any implication that there is no English working class that isn't exploited in the same way as sCottish/Irish/Welsh working class people. I think what you're talking about occurs in all countries and its what makes nationalism even more ridiculous and backward. Lee Heartwork [Heartwork]26 November 2003 17:36 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey English children worked in mines and factories too. Sometime later in the 1920s my dad along with millions of other working people couldn't get work - I remember him saying that if he hadn't earned money that day - he wouldn't eat (as a matter of principle!) because he didn't want to be a burden to his family. No wonder he was so skinny. As a member of a long line of fairly poor working people - I get a little niggled by the assumption that all us English people are rich and uncaring and the rest of Britain are hard-done-by. Jo royalty...aristocracy....anyone with private income hasnt earned it with sweat of their brow like i assume we all have to............................ anyone who made serious money out of the industrial revolution..............they built west londons white christmas cake houses whilst children worked in mines, iron works, factories........ catherine >"Lee Delaney" > > >RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey >Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:27:18 -0000 > >David and Victoria Beckham > > Peter [metalscarab] > 24 November 2003 17:19 > > Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey > > > Hi Lee > > > couldn't have put this better myself, although I would also add that the >economic union that is Britain has benefited the English > > ruling class most of all as while taxes may be seen to go more towards >Scotland, Wales or NI, the use of resources from those > > countries I think far outweighs any of that. > > Not quite sure who you mean by the English ruling classes - perhaps you >could suggest a few names? > > BB > Peter > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.538 / Virus Database: 333 - Release 10/11/03 > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 10, 2003 Ah yes - folk music. I'm usually a metal fan, but strangely enough I do like some folk music. Each year around Solstice we go to see an amateur 'show' called Maypoles to Mistletoe which is folk songs, morris dancing, maypole dancing, story-telling etc. and I really enjoy it. Also there is a fairly local Druid who's Pagan folk songs I enjoy. We do celebrate the Solstice by going to a local beauty spot to greet the sun as it rises (usually pretty cold but beautiful), if there's plenty of other people we sometimes do a ritual and have a Solstice breakfast picnic. Then we go home and spend the rest of the day much like a Christmas day. We also celebrate after three days (usually Christmas day) as that is when the days actually begin to lengthen. Jo - Lee Delaney Wednesday, December 10, 2003 1:00 PM RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey well I like some Northern folk music, like Kate Rusby and Eliza Carthy. I'm getting deja vu there, ahve I already mentioned that? Hmmmm. What do you do at xmas by the way? Is it winter solstice or something like that? Heartwork [Heartwork]01 December 2003 17:43 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey Hi Lee I think there must be (and yes - I have time :-) ). Jo - Lee Delaney Monday, December 01, 2003 11:46 AM RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey is there an English culture? How long have you got Jo? I think there is a lot of English thats kind of been forgotten which I think is really sad. Heartwork [Heartwork]28 November 2003 16:58 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey Is there an English culture? In England St Patrick's day is celebrated and St David's. I would be interested to know what English culture consists of. Jo - Lee Delaney Friday, November 28, 2003 9:53 AM RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey Because there are many people in many countries who have suffered due to British imperialism, which English industries and politics particularly dominated, and in Britain non-English culture has been next to wiped out. We all speak English not British, the language follows the movement of trade.... Heartwork [Heartwork]27 November 2003 17:42 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey That may be the case - but if so why would that cause people to stick up for any other country against England in sporting fixtures? Jo - Lee Delaney Thursday, November 27, 2003 10:15 AM RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey I don't think thats what was being implied Jo, at least thats not how I was reading it as we were talking about the English ruling class. I don't see any implication that there is no English working class that isn't exploited in the same way as sCottish/Irish/Welsh working class people. I think what you're talking about occurs in all countries and its what makes nationalism even more ridiculous and backward. Lee Heartwork [Heartwork]26 November 2003 17:36 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey English children worked in mines and factories too. Sometime later in the 1920s my dad along with millions of other working people couldn't get work - I remember him saying that if he hadn't earned money that day - he wouldn't eat (as a matter of principle!) because he didn't want to be a burden to his family. No wonder he was so skinny. As a member of a long line of fairly poor working people - I get a little niggled by the assumption that all us English people are rich and uncaring and the rest of Britain are hard-done-by. Jo royalty...aristocracy....anyone with private income hasnt earned it with sweat of their brow like i assume we all have to............................ anyone who made serious money out of the industrial revolution..............they built west londons white christmas cake houses whilst children worked in mines, iron works, factories........ catherine >"Lee Delaney" > > >RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey >Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:27:18 -0000 > >David and Victoria Beckham > > Peter [metalscarab] > 24 November 2003 17:19 > > Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey > > > Hi Lee > > > couldn't have put this better myself, although I would also add that the >economic union that is Britain has benefited the English > > ruling class most of all as while taxes may be seen to go more towards >Scotland, Wales or NI, the use of resources from those > > countries I think far outweighs any of that. > > Not quite sure who you mean by the English ruling classes - perhaps you >could suggest a few names? > > BB > Peter > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.538 / Virus Database: 333 - Release 10/11/03 > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 10, 2003 I'll be at home as usual in the midst of nature so it'll be pretty nice, might even snow as it usually has the last few years. Might try and get myself up for sun rise at some point. Having the cats and dog around again will be like my very own little celebration anyway. Heartwork [Heartwork]10 December 2003 13:11 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey Ah yes - folk music. I'm usually a metal fan, but strangely enough I do like some folk music. Each year around Solstice we go to see an amateur 'show' called Maypoles to Mistletoe which is folk songs, morris dancing, maypole dancing, story-telling etc. and I really enjoy it. Also there is a fairly local Druid who's Pagan folk songs I enjoy. We do celebrate the Solstice by going to a local beauty spot to greet the sun as it rises (usually pretty cold but beautiful), if there's plenty of other people we sometimes do a ritual and have a Solstice breakfast picnic. Then we go home and spend the rest of the day much like a Christmas day. We also celebrate after three days (usually Christmas day) as that is when the days actually begin to lengthen. Jo - Lee Delaney Wednesday, December 10, 2003 1:00 PM RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey well I like some Northern folk music, like Kate Rusby and Eliza Carthy. I'm getting deja vu there, ahve I already mentioned that? Hmmmm. What do you do at xmas by the way? Is it winter solstice or something like that? Heartwork [Heartwork]01 December 2003 17:43 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey Hi Lee I think there must be (and yes - I have time :-) ). Jo - Lee Delaney Monday, December 01, 2003 11:46 AM RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey is there an English culture? How long have you got Jo? I think there is a lot of English thats kind of been forgotten which I think is really sad. Heartwork [Heartwork]28 November 2003 16:58 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey Is there an English culture? In England St Patrick's day is celebrated and St David's. I would be interested to know what English culture consists of. Jo - Lee Delaney Friday, November 28, 2003 9:53 AM RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey Because there are many people in many countries who have suffered due to British imperialism, which English industries and politics particularly dominated, and in Britain non-English culture has been next to wiped out. We all speak English not British, the language follows the movement of trade.... Heartwork [Heartwork]27 November 2003 17:42 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey That may be the case - but if so why would that cause people to stick up for any other country against England in sporting fixtures? Jo - Lee Delaney Thursday, November 27, 2003 10:15 AM RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey I don't think thats what was being implied Jo, at least thats not how I was reading it as we were talking about the English ruling class. I don't see any implication that there is no English working class that isn't exploited in the same way as sCottish/Irish/Welsh working class people. I think what you're talking about occurs in all countries and its what makes nationalism even more ridiculous and backward. Lee Heartwork [Heartwork]26 November 2003 17:36 Subject: Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey English children worked in mines and factories too. Sometime later in the 1920s my dad along with millions of other working people couldn't get work - I remember him saying that if he hadn't earned money that day - he wouldn't eat (as a matter of principle!) because he didn't want to be a burden to his family. No wonder he was so skinny. As a member of a long line of fairly poor working people - I get a little niggled by the assumption that all us English people are rich and uncaring and the rest of Britain are hard-done-by. Jo royalty...aristocracy....anyone with private income hasnt earned it with sweat of their brow like i assume we all have to............................ anyone who made serious money out of the industrial revolution..............they built west londons white christmas cake houses whilst children worked in mines, iron works, factories........ catherine >"Lee Delaney" > > >RE: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey >Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:27:18 -0000 > >David and Victoria Beckham > > Peter [metalscarab] > 24 November 2003 17:19 > > Re: Re: tofurky vs. unturkey > > > Hi Lee > > > couldn't have put this better myself, although I would also add that the >economic union that is Britain has benefited the English > > ruling class most of all as while taxes may be seen to go more towards >Scotland, Wales or NI, the use of resources from those > > countries I think far outweighs any of that. > > Not quite sure who you mean by the English ruling classes - perhaps you >could suggest a few names? > > BB > Peter > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.538 / Virus Database: 333 - Release 10/11/03 > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
