Pole Shift (was vegan cookbook)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/9/03 8:49:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, prussell writes:

the actual poles of the earth are not

wandering about looking for new homes. ;-)

you mean it didn't wander thru my neighborhood at 3am..????????/

man..then who asked for directions to the Ross Ice shelf???

[Guest guest]

Hi Danielle

 

> OK, I don't get it--what could possibly cause a major shift in the poles?

They just shift! Dunno what causes it.

 

There's a complete switch every about 11,000 years, and the last one was almost 11,000 years ago!

 

They actually started tracking the magnetic poles in the 1850s, and at that time they were shifting a few metres every year, but it's accelarating rapidly... at the moment it's moving at something like 10 nautical miles per year - the North Pole is rapidly heading for Newfoundland, then onto mainland America!!!

 

12 December 2012 seems the likely date for the "switch" to take place - not only has that been predicted by people watching the progress of the poles (do a search on "Mandeville" on the internet), but also the Mayan calender ends on that date for no explicable reason... some have suggested that they knew something!

 

BB

Peter

 

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[Guest guest]

>Hi Danielle

>

> > OK, I don't get it--what could possibly cause a major shift in the poles?

>

>They just shift! Dunno what causes it.

>

>There's a complete switch every about 11,000 years, and the last one

>was almost 11,000 years ago!

>

>They actually started tracking the magnetic poles in the 1850s, and

>at that time they were shifting a few metres every year, but it's

>accelarating rapidly... at the moment it's moving at something like

>10 nautical miles per year - the North Pole is rapidly heading for

>Newfoundland, then onto mainland America!!!

>

>12 December 2012 seems the likely date for the " switch " to take

>place - not only has that been predicted by people watching the

>progress of the poles (do a search on " Mandeville " on the internet),

>but also the Mayan calender ends on that date for no explicable

>reason... some have suggested that they knew something!

>

 

This looks like a candidate for snopes.com.

 

I don't think any supposed " switch " is going to happen on a single

day - all that is happening is that as the molten iron in the earth's

core moves around, the overall location of magnetic north is

drifting, very slowly. It's possible that in a few thousand years the

location of magnetic north could end up in the southern hemisphere,

but this won't happen on any given day, and it won't have any

significant effect other than for navigation by magnetic compass. It

should also be pointed out that this is solely the magnetic poles we

are talking about here - the actual poles of the earth are not

wandering about looking for new homes. ;-)

 

Paul

 

--

[Guest guest]

>In a message dated 8/9/03 8:49:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

>prussell writes:

>

>>the actual poles of the earth are not

>>wandering about looking for new homes. ;-)

>>

>

>you mean it didn't wander thru my neighborhood at 3am..????????/

>man..then who asked for directions to the Ross Ice shelf???

 

That was probably the Abominable Snowman - he's fed up with living in

Tibet under Chinese occupation. ;-)

 

Paul

 

--

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/9/03 9:58:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, prussell writes:

 

If there were to be any unanticipated dramatic effects whenever there

was a significant movement of the magnetic poles I think we would

have seen evidence of this. The only thing I can think of that may

rely on the earth's (very weak) magnetic field might be the movements

of certain migratory animals (although I don't think this is anything

other than speculation). However since most bird and other species

have been around for hundreds of thousands of years it would seem

that they are not significantly affected.

there is evidence that the pole's do move dramatically every few milenium er so...

and, not only would they affect things like bird migratory habits, but probably would affect the aurora's and probably a host of things we don't think of..aircraft and the like...

[Guest guest]

Hi Paul

 

> I don't think any supposed "switch" is going to happen on a single > day - all that is happening is that as the molten iron in the earth's > core moves around, the overall location of magnetic north is > drifting, very slowly. It's possible that in a few thousand years the > location of magnetic north could end up in the southern hemisphere, > but this won't happen on any given day, and it won't have any > significant effect other than for navigation by magnetic compass. It > should also be pointed out that this is solely the magnetic poles we > are talking about here - the actual poles of the earth are not > wandering about looking for new homes. ;-)

Indeedy - just the magnetic poles. However, archaeo-geomagnetic evidence shows that the pole switches do happen rather dramatically - maybe not on one given day, but certainly faster than a "wander", and over no more than the space of a couple of years. It would be rather difficult to predict the actual results of a dramatic switch, since it hasn't happened since about 9000 BCE, so no-one has any experience of it, and it dates from before any written history we have access to.

 

Incidentally, contrary to the Dangermouse episode, the poles are not red and white striped sticks poking out of the ground. There are two generally accepted poles... the magnetic ones, and ones that was invented so that maps would all be drawn the same way up.

 

BB

Peter

 

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/9/03 10:11:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, veggietart writes:

 

 

OK, but WHY? I've heard there is a "wobble" in the Earth that plays with

the direction the North Pole points, but what causes the motion? Is it just

something screwy in the structure of the planet, or what?

the earth's wobble causes the planet to shift slightly every 26 thousand years or so...it constantly wobbles a bit,..the most dramatic affect we can notice is the "north star", which changes..

the magnetic fields move because of a variety of effects, from shifting molten iron in the core and mantle to solar winds

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/9/03 10:40:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, metalscarab writes:

ry 24,000 years. The effect of this is that the positions of the stars in the night sky very gradually move... what is currently the North Star won't be in a few thousand years.

wot he said

hahahahahahhaha

[Guest guest]

>

>Indeedy - just the magnetic poles. However, archaeo-geomagnetic

>evidence shows that the pole switches do happen rather dramatically

>- maybe not on one given day, but certainly faster than a " wander " ,

>and over no more than the space of a couple of years. It would be

>rather difficult to predict the actual results of a dramatic switch,

>since it hasn't happened since about 9000 BCE, so no-one has any

>experience of it, and it dates from before any written history we

>have access to.

>

 

If there were to be any unanticipated dramatic effects whenever there

was a significant movement of the magnetic poles I think we would

have seen evidence of this. The only thing I can think of that may

rely on the earth's (very weak) magnetic field might be the movements

of certain migratory animals (although I don't think this is anything

other than speculation). However since most bird and other species

have been around for hundreds of thousands of years it would seem

that they are not significantly affected.

 

>Incidentally, contrary to the Dangermouse episode, the poles are not

>red and white striped sticks poking out of the ground. There are two

>generally accepted poles... the magnetic ones, and ones that was

>invented so that maps would all be drawn the same way up.

>

 

Ah - I thought perhaps you were in the UK - the Dangermouse reference

clinches it (although I should have spotted the .co.uk email address

if I'd been awake !).

 

I'm originally from the UK but live in the US now. I was back in the

UK a couple of weeks ago (Brighton), just visiting. How's the heat

wave ?

 

Paul

 

--

[Guest guest]

OK, but WHY? I've heard there is a " wobble " in the Earth that plays with

the direction the North Pole points, but what causes the motion? Is it just

something screwy in the structure of the planet, or what?

 

Danielle

 

 

 

Sure there's a light at the end of the tunnel...I just hope it isn't an

oncoming train!

 

 

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

" Peter " <metalscarab

 

 

Pole Shift (was vegan cookbook)

Sat, 9 Aug 2003 13:00:10 +0100

 

Hi Danielle

 

> OK, I don't get it--what could possibly cause a major shift in the poles?

 

They just shift! Dunno what causes it.

 

There's a complete switch every about 11,000 years, and the last one was

almost 11,000 years ago!

 

They actually started tracking the magnetic poles in the 1850s, and at that

time they were shifting a few metres every year, but it's accelarating

rapidly... at the moment it's moving at something like 10 nautical miles per

year - the North Pole is rapidly heading for Newfoundland, then onto

mainland America!!!

 

12 December 2012 seems the likely date for the " switch " to take place - not

only has that been predicted by people watching the progress of the poles

(do a search on " Mandeville " on the internet), but also the Mayan calender

ends on that date for no explicable reason... some have suggested that they

knew something!

 

BB

Peter

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Paul

 

> If there were to be any unanticipated dramatic effects whenever there > was a significant movement of the magnetic poles I think we would > have seen evidence of this.

 

The problem is that the last dramatic change was 11,000 years ago, so we don't know actually what happened as we have no historical record.

 

> The only thing I can think of that may > rely on the earth's (very weak) magnetic field might be the movements > of certain migratory animals (although I don't think this is anything > other than speculation).

 

Everything living on the planet is affected by the magnetic fields. As they say, no man is an island. Humans are just particularly ignorant when it comes to noticing the way magnetic fields affect us because we've created tools to measure these things which have reduced our need to understand them without tools. I'm not necessarily saying a pole switch is going to have some dramatically bad effect, just that it will have an effect... it might be entirely positive for all we know.

 

> However since most bird and other species > have been around for hundreds of thousands of years it would seem > that they are not significantly affected.

Although it is interesting that around 11,000 years ago there does seem to have been a major change in the sorts of species on the planet. This is generally put down to human domestication of animals, since it is domesticated animals which start to appear then, and their wild counterparts which generally disappear. Perhaps it could be connected to the pole shift. (Incidentally, I've never considered the possible connection prior to this conversation.)

 

> I'm originally from the UK but live in the US now. I was back in the > UK a couple of weeks ago (Brighton), just visiting. How's the heat > wave ?

I love Brighton... fantastic places to eat, and some really good shops (I mean, where else can you buy a cast iron cauldron?). The heat wave is, unfortunately, still waving as though it were the Queen Mother on LSD!

 

BB

Peter

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Danielle

 

> OK, but WHY? I've heard there is a "wobble" in the Earth that plays with > the direction the North Pole points, but what causes the motion? Is it just > something screwy in the structure of the planet, or what?

There are a variety of different "wobbles" which cause all sorts of gradual astronomical effects. I think the one you're talking about is the "Chandler Wobble" (IIRC). Basically the axis of rotation of the earth shifts in relation to the sun so that it completes a full cycle every 24,000 years. The effect of this is that the positions of the stars in the night sky very gradually move... what is currently the North Star won't be in a few thousand years. The Chandler Wobble is the major basis of the argument that the pyramids and sphinx were built in 10,000 BCE rather than 3,000 BCE - because they align with the stars as they would have been at that time, while they don't align quite so well with the stars in 3,000 BCE (personally, I don't go with that theory as there's plenty of other evidence that the pyramids are from nearer 3,000 BCE, althought the Sphinx is probably much earlier).

 

There's also another "wobble" (might even be the same one) which causes the precesion of the equinoxes... in other words, the sun gradually moves in relation to the other stars. This cycle also takes around 24,000 years, so I'm thinking it might be the same wobble. At the moment the sun rises on the Spirng Equinox on the Pisces / Aquarius cusp - hence the "dawning of the Age of Aquarius" business - for the past 2,000 years it has risen in Pisces on that day, for the 2,000 years before that it was in Aries, and so on.

 

I have to say, this all confuses me - I've never fully understood astronomy or astrology!

 

BB

Peter

 

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[Guest guest]

Paul

 

I like visiting Brighton - lots of veggie restaurants and New Age type shops!

 

Jo

 

I'm originally from the UK but live in the US now. I was back in the UK a couple of weeks ago (Brighton), just visiting. How's the heat wave ?

 

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[Guest guest]

>

>The problem is that the last dramatic change was 11,000 years ago,

>so we don't know actually what happened as we have no historical

>record.

>

 

We can tell a lot about what happened in pre-history. 11,000 years

ago is not very long ago in the scheme of things. We have a lot of

information about the last 4,000,000 years - before that things start

to get a little hazy. ;-)

 

>

>Everything living on the planet is affected by the magnetic fields.

 

Do you have any evidence to support this ?

 

> As they say, no man is an island. Humans are just particularly

>ignorant when it comes to noticing the way magnetic fields affect us

>because we've created tools to measure these things which have

>reduced our need to understand them without tools. I'm not

>necessarily saying a pole switch is going to have some dramatically

>bad effect, just that it will have an effect... it might be entirely

>positive for all we know.

>

 

Can you give an example of what might be affected ? Maybe I'm having

a failure of imagination here, but I can't see that it would make

much difference.

 

>

>Although it is interesting that around 11,000 years ago there does

>seem to have been a major change in the sorts of species on the

>planet. This is generally put down to human domestication of

>animals, since it is domesticated animals which start to appear

>then, and their wild counterparts which generally disappear. Perhaps

>it could be connected to the pole shift. (Incidentally, I've never

>considered the possible connection prior to this conversation.)

>

 

Domestication of animals started around 35,000 years ago, and was a

very gradual process and did not occur uniformly across the planet,

so I don't think you can narrow this down to even a given millennium

- putting it within a given 10,000 year period, even, would probably

be too specific.

 

>

>I love Brighton... fantastic places to eat, and some really good

>shops (I mean, where else can you buy a cast iron cauldron?). The

>heat wave is, unfortunately, still waving as though it were the

>Queen Mother on LSD!

>

 

I lived in Brighton for 20 years and if I ever had to move back to

the UK I can't think of anywhere else I'd rather live. I tend to

think of Santa Cruz as being Brighton, California - the two cities

have a lot in common (except the weather's a lot better here, for one

thing !). In fact there is even a New Brighton Beach just a few miles

down the coast from Santa (near Capitola).

 

Where abouts in the UK are you ?

 

Cheers,

 

Paul

 

--

[Guest guest]

>

>I have to say, this all confuses me - I've never fully understood

>astronomy or astrology!

>

 

Whoops ! Don't confuse astronomy with astrology. Astronomy is real,

astrology is " new age " nonsense.

 

Paul

 

--

[Guest guest]

>

>I like visiting Brighton - lots of veggie restaurants and New Age type shops!

>

 

Heh - well you won't catch me in the " new age " shops but you'll

certainly find me in the restaurants there. The highlight of any

visit back to the UK for me is eating at Terre a Terre in Brighton -

they can give Millennium or Greens in San Francisco a good run for

their money. Food for Friends now seems to be trying to mimic Terre a

Terre unfortunately - it's gone all table service, drizzled aoli and

cocktails, but it'doesn't have Terre a Terre's class - they should

have stuck to what they were good at. It's not bad though, so long as

you avoid the bean burgers. There's also a new place in St James St

which I tried a couple of weeks back - it's called Gardenia, and it's

pretty good. Basic but good food.

 

For anyone else who's interested in Brighton, I have a modest

" cruelty free " guide on the WWW:

<http://www.cix.co.uk/~prussell/veg/CFG_Brighton.html>. Now that I

live in the US I don't get to keep it as up to date as I would like,

but I did revise it on this last recent visit.

 

Cheers,

 

Paul

 

--

[Guest guest]

Hi Paul

 

> We can tell a lot about what happened in pre-history. 11,000 years > ago is not very long ago in the scheme of things. We have a lot of > information about the last 4,000,000 years - before that things start > to get a little hazy. ;-)

Perhaps you could tell me what happened to the average person as a result of the last pole shift then?

 

We may have a general idea of the way of life covering a period of several thousand years, but we can see virtually nothing of how an individual short-term event affected people.

 

>> Everything living on the planet is affected by the magnetic fields.> Do you have any evidence to support this ?

Do you have any evidence that magnetic fields don't have any effect on us?

 

> Can you give an example of what might be affected ? Maybe I'm having > a failure of imagination here, but I can't see that it would make > much difference.

Can you give an example of anything that *definitely* wouldn't be affected?

BB

Peter

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Paul

 

> Whoops ! Don't confuse astronomy with astrology. Astronomy is real, > astrology is "new age" nonsense.

 

Ah - I see you're after an argument!

 

In fact, it is only with the creation of a new religion (science) that astronomy and astrology have been seperated. All of the great scientists of the past (Newton, Wren, Haak, Wilkins, Boyle, etc. etc.) all accepted astrology as a part of their research into natural philosophy.

 

I'm intrigued by your use of the term "new age" considering that astrology pre-dates modern science by several millenia. Perhaps it is astrology which is real, and modern science which is "new age nonsense". Incidentally, why do you feel the need to belittle something just because you happen to disagree with it? That sort of attitude usually comes from those insecure in their own beliefs who feel the need to bully others into agreement - either that, or those who just like to stir up trouble.

 

Perhaps you could explain how the much vaunted "birth season effect" studies carried out by psychologists over the past decade differ from astrology?

 

BB

Peter

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Paul

 

> Heh - well you won't catch me in the "new age" shops

 

Just as well - if you're as tactless about your views on astrology in person as you have been on e-mail, you'd probably get kicked out fairly quickly!

 

BB

Peter

 

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[Guest guest]

>>>>>Heh - well you won't catch me in the "new age" shops but

 

That's a relief!

 

Jo

 

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[Guest guest]

Paul

 

You have recently wrongly accused Simon of making a homophobic statement. You have definitely just made an anti-New age statement. Why is one okay and the other not?

 

Incidentally, I ~used~ to have a friend who made much the same comment.

 

Jo

 

Whoops ! Don't confuse astronomy with astrology. Astronomy is real, astrology is "new age" nonsense.

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/9/03 11:55:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time, prussell writes:

 

Can you give an example of what might be affected ? Maybe I'm having

a failure of imagination here, but I can't see that it would make

much difference.

 

or...sea turtles...they sense the magnetic field..thats one way they come back to the same beaches every year to lay eggs...

whales sense the magnetic currents..its one way they migrate, and there is evidence that whales beach themsleves along starnds of shore where the magnetic affects get mucked up.

geese use the earth's magnetic currents to migrate...

bees use it...

we all do to some extent..it affects us all...

[Guest guest]

oh..fer bacchus' sake..everyone play nice....

thats it..go to yer rooms....

[Guest guest]

I bought a book on the Mayan Prophecies re 2012, but unfortunately I haven't read it yet. The opinions I have heard on the effects of it vary from 'nothing at all' to 'we're all gonna die'!

 

Jo

 

-

EBbrewpunx

Saturday, August 09, 2003 9:26 PM

Re: Pole Shift (was vegan cookbook)

In a message dated 8/9/03 10:40:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, metalscarab writes:

ry 24,000 years. The effect of this is that the positions of the stars in the night sky very gradually move... what is currently the North Star won't be in a few thousand years.wot he saidhahahahahahhaha

To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Very true. My immediate thought was that homing-pigeons must be affected.

 

Jo

 

 

or...sea turtles...they sense the magnetic field..thats one way they come back to the same beaches every year to lay eggs...whales sense the magnetic currents..its one way they migrate, and there is evidence that whales beach themsleves along starnds of shore where the magnetic affects get mucked up.geese use the earth's magnetic currents to migrate...bees use it...we all do to some extent..it affects us all...

 

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