Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 Thank you very much Peter ..you read and understood what I posted..I did point out to the friend I was with that his view on linking homosexuality and veganism as nonsense. SJ - Peter Friday, August 08, 2003 3:47 PM Re: Re: Be easy on me Hi folks > It's the second rather homophobic posting from Simon in recent days > (the first one was on another list) - I took him to task on the first > one but got no response. Let's hope he's not going for "three > strikes". Before we get too carried away on victimising Simon, I didn't see anything in what he said that was criticising homosexuals in any way whatsoever. I have no idea what has been said by him or anyone else on any other lists, but his post to was talking about observations he had made in a particular restaurant that there appeared to be a larger than average number of clientelle who appeared to be homosexual. I can see nothing at all offensive or homphobic in such an observation. I would also like to add that if anyone has an objection to a post for any reason, the appropriate course of action is to contact the moderator (i.e. me) off-list. I can assure you that I would not let anyone post anything offensive without at least a warning. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release 01/08/03To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 Hello Simon- when I said I thought you were talking bollox I didn't mean that I didn't beleive you, rather I was agreeing with Paul in that you do seem to be making some generalising and stereotyping comments based on assumptions about what it means to be 'gay'. Maybe you pressed some of my own buttons and i misread you and over- reacted, but I still think it's not particularly useful to generalise and stereotype on a basis of sexuality... as somebody wiser than me said on another list I to, " such comments produce more fire than light... " Cheers Graham , " simonpjones " <simonpjones@o...> wrote: > I say what did happen and what my friend said to me..and that's your > response??? Shall I put you in touch with him and you can talk to him > yourself. I was there Mate!!!!! > > SJ > - > " quercusrobur2002 " <grahamburnett@b...> > > Thursday, August 07, 2003 11:33 PM > Re: Be easy on me > > > > Very diplomatically put Paul, in fact I think our dear friend simon > > is actually talking bollocks. > > > > , Paul Russell <prussell@s...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >I think there's some truth in that as twice I've taken a > > > >male friend to the same veggie restaurant and both times there > > did > > > >seem to be quite a few gays in the restaurant, <snippage> > > > > > > > > I don't think it's helpful or meaningful to make sweeping > > > generalisations about any given minority. > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 >I say what did happen and what my friend said to me..and that's your >response??? Shall I put you in touch with him and you can talk to him >yourself. I was there Mate!!!!! > You very conveniently snipped this part: At 22:17 +0100 8/7/03, simonpjones wrote: >veganism was a kind of fringe thing which would appeal to gays. If this were just an isolated faux pas I'd let it go, but you were also recently ranting about monogamous heterosexual relationships being the only " valid " relationships, so in this context your post seems more homophobic than it might otherwise appear in isolation. Paul -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 In a message dated 8/9/03 6:25:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time, swpgh01 writes: Personally I am a level 4 vegan I dont eat anything that casts a shadow! The valley vegan.. but, do you protest crusty burgers is the main bit of contention.....? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 Paul / Graham (and anyone else I haven't got to yet. The discussion on whether or not Simon is homophobic will end now. Failure to observe this will result in moderation and possible removal from the list. I will not accept anybody posting potentially libellous comments to this list. Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release 01/08/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 In a message dated 8/9/03 7:14:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, nikkimack writes: What do you eat then? Plants cast shadows. nikki - thouroghly confused - of course, that's nothing new psst hey nikki..it was simpsons reference... i know...in chi town, they don't allow anything but "one day at a time", and jerry springer...but.. hee hee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 There are levels??? What are they? What do you eat then? Plants cast shadows. nikki - thouroghly confused - of course, that's nothing new , swpgh01@t... wrote: > Personally I am a level 4 vegan I dont eat anything that casts a shadow! > The valley vegan.. > > Hi Dave > > > > yeah, i totally agree with nikki there. i don't know why, but some > > people were given the impression that veganism is some elitist group > > and that the only way to be one of us is to learn to levitate above > > ground so that you never step on any bugs.. > > > >What... you mean you don't levitate? ) > > > >BB > >Peter > > > > > >--- > >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<a Target='_new' Href='http://talk21.btopenworld.com/redirect.html? http://www.grisoft.com)'>http://www.grisoft.com)</a> > >Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release 01/08/03 > > Peter H > > -------------------- > talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 Personally I am a level 4 vegan I dont eat anything that casts a shadow! The valley vegan.. > Hi Dave > > yeah, i totally agree with nikki there. i don't know why, but some > people were given the impression that veganism is some elitist group > and that the only way to be one of us is to learn to levitate above > ground so that you never step on any bugs.. > >What... you mean you don't levitate? ) > >BB >Peter > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<a Target='_new' Href='http://talk21.btopenworld.com/redirect.html?http://www.grisoft.com)'>http:\ //www.grisoft.com)</a> >Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release 01/08/03 Peter H -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 I ALSO POCKET MULCH. DONT YOU? The Valley Vegan.... > Peter H -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 Dave LOL - thanks for the laugh. Jo Personally I am a level 4 vegan I dont eat anything that casts a shadow!The valley vegan.. ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release 01/08/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 >Paul / Graham (and anyone else I haven't got to yet. > >The discussion on whether or not Simon is homophobic will end now. >Failure to observe this will result in moderation and possible >removal from the list. > OK - I have said all I have to say on Simon's homophobia - if he doesn't make any further anti-gay comments I'm happy to move on. >I will not accept anybody posting potentially libellous comments to this list. > Libellous ? See <http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,59424,00.html>. Paul -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 , Paul Russell <prussell@s...> wrote: > >Paul / Graham (and anyone else I haven't got to yet. > > > >The discussion on whether or not Simon is homophobic will end now. > >Failure to observe this will result in moderation and possible > >removal from the list. > > > Um ,i'm not sure that I accused Simon of being homophobic, just that his comments could be construed as contributing to a stereotype of what 'all' gay people are like... my initial comment, 'your talking bollocks', was over the top and not very constructive nor was it clear what I meant- as I acknowledged, his comments 'pressed my buttons' and got an instant and not very well thought out reaction. my second post was a more rational explanation/clarifiaction of what I was trying to say... If discussion around such issues is unacceptable on this list however that worries me, though I agree it's not always helpful to personalise such debate, nor to adopt a confrontational tone. If the above results in my banning from this list, then so be it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 Graham Since you have shown that you don't understand the phrase "take it up with me off-list", but instead have chosen to whinge in a public forum, I have put you on moderation until you can demonstrate that you understand basic e-mail list etiquette. Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release 01/08/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 > >Since you have shown that you don't understand the phrase " take it >up with me off-list " , but instead have chosen to whinge in a public >forum, I have put you on moderation until you can demonstrate that >you understand basic e-mail list etiquette. > Gosh, Peter, that seems a little harsh. I've known Graham for a while (on other lists) and he's always seemed to be one of the more calm and moderate participants - he's certainly better behaved than I am. An important part of free speech and open debate is listening to he views of others who we may not necessarily agree with. If we censor everyone who we do not agree with then we are doomed to an Orwellian nightmare. I hope you'll reconsider what seems to me to be an overlay hasty and unnecessary response. Regards, Paul -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 > At 22:17 +0100 8/7/03, simonpjones wrote: > >veganism was a kind of fringe thing which would appeal to gays. > > If this were just an isolated faux pas I'd let it go, but you were > also recently ranting about monogamous heterosexual relationships > being the only " valid " relationships, so in this context your post > seems more homophobic than it might otherwise appear in isolation.> I try not to hold anything against anyone..and all though I wouldn't promote homosexuality as fashionable and cool etc, If someone feels that is something that is a part of them...then it has to be accepted as part of life. SJ > > -- > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 As his disagreement wasn't with you, why should he try to talk it out with you? Makes more sense, and helps others, to talk it out with the person(s) involved. People have even been known to benefit/learn from open debates. If his disagreement was with you, it wouldn't do him any good to try to talk to you anyway, as I've learned. You don't respond or anything, just put a person on moderation because you don't want anyone else to know how wrong you are (as happened with me). This is a serious issue here, and why a lot of people have stopped posting here and gone to VeganUncensored instead. As I am fully expecting you to either moderate me again or ban me from the list for voicing my opinion, I'll say goodbye to everyone now. It's been fun.... Would have been happy to continue had it not been for over-controlling Peter. You can take your ball and go play with yourself now. Take care,Tammy "Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." —Albert Einstein - Peter Saturday, August 09, 2003 2:14 PM Re: Re: Be easy on me Graham Since you have shown that you don't understand the phrase "take it up with me off-list", but instead have chosen to whinge in a public forum, I have put you on moderation until you can demonstrate that you understand basic e-mail list etiquette. Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 Tammy > As I am fully expecting you to either moderate me again or ban me from the list for voicing my opinion, I'll say goodbye to > everyone now. It's been fun.... Would have been happy to continue had it not been for over-controlling Peter. This is a very sad day. You have just qualified as the first ever genuine vegan that I have banned. However, you have been rude to people several times on the list in the past and have previously been moderated twice for being rude, so I will be very relieved to get rid of you. Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release 01/08/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 9, 2003 - " Paul Russell " <prussell Saturday, August 09, 2003 4:56 PM Re: Re: Be easy on me > >Paul / Graham (and anyone else I haven't got to yet. > > > >The discussion on whether or not Simon is homophobic will end now. > >Failure to observe this will result in moderation and possible > >removal from the list. > > > > OK - I have said all I have to say on Simon's homophobia - if he > doesn't make any further anti-gay comments I'm happy to move on.> If you can point out any anti- gay comments I have made.. let me know. It doesn't appeal to me admittedly..Like some other sexual practices be them with women or men..but thats my opinion...I wouldn't call it a phobia. SJ - Everything that has the breath of life in it - I give every green plant for food- Bible writer ( Genesis:- 1-30) SJ > > -- > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2003 Tammy, You were/ are truley one of my favoriate people here. Your advice & help has been wonderful, If you are baned... I'll miss you.) choa. sam.Tammy <kittytooo wrote: As his disagreement wasn't with you, why should he try to talk it out with you? Makes more sense, and helps others, to talk it out with the person(s) involved. People have even been known to benefit/learn from open debates. If his disagreement was with you, it wouldn't do him any good to try to talk to you anyway, as I've learned. You don't respond or anything, just put a person on moderation because you don't want anyone else to know how wrong you are (as happened with me). This is a serious issue here, and why a lot of people have stopped posting here and gone to VeganUncensored instead. As I am fully expecting you to either moderate me again or ban me from the list for voicing my opinion, I'll say goodbye to everyone now. It's been fun.... Would have been happy to continue had it not been for over-controlling Peter. You can take your ball and go play with yourself now. Take care,Tammy "Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." —Albert Einstein - Peter Saturday, August 09, 2003 2:14 PM Re: Re: Be easy on me Graham Since you have shown that you don't understand the phrase "take it up with me off-list", but instead have chosen to whinge in a public forum, I have put you on moderation until you can demonstrate that you understand basic e-mail list etiquette. Peter To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 12, 2003 Hey listen here pal just because oh ferget it can't do it with a straight face anyways like the Simpsons, just not a lot of time fer tv nikki , EBbrewpunx@c... wrote: > In a message dated 8/9/03 7:14:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, nikkimack@m... > writes: > > > > What do you eat then? Plants cast shadows. > > > > nikki - thouroghly confused - of course, that's nothing new > psst > hey nikki..it was simpsons reference... > i know...in chi town, they don't allow anything but " one day at a time " , and > jerry springer...but.. > hee hee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 12, 2003 Ok, I know I am butting in where not invited, but as an owner and mod of several lists i would like to say something in Peter's defense I do not think that this is anything personal with Graham nor is it an attempt for Peter to silence anyone's rights And yes Paul, I agree that Graham is a wonderful human and quite polite whenever he discusses these matters And this group is very open and we are able to talk about very many things But I think in order to retain that freedom, there must be some boundaries and they must be respected I think that Peter was just trying to keep a lid on things and had asked a couple times the matter be resolved, so then he decided to take it one step further by saying that it was over and to please contact him so that if anything was still unresolved, he could help without getting the group going on this again I do not think Peter is chastising Graham at all, I think he has to stick to his word no matter who it is, in order to retain order in the group I highly doubt Peter meant it in any way personal against Graham because I have never seen him act out on anyone ever He is simply trying to keep a sensitive issue from starting a riot as it looked it was about to do This group has always been allowed to discuss any sensitive matters as long as it was not turned into a flame war And in my eyes, it looked as if it would In case there is a message further ahead about not replying to this message, I apologize I have not gotten to it yet LOL Am a bit behind the last few days Just me own two cents, nikki , Paul Russell <prussell@s...> wrote: > > > >Since you have shown that you don't understand the phrase " take it > >up with me off-list " , but instead have chosen to whinge in a public > >forum, I have put you on moderation until you can demonstrate that > >you understand basic e-mail list etiquette. > > > > Gosh, Peter, that seems a little harsh. I've known Graham for a while > (on other lists) and he's always seemed to be one of the more calm > and moderate participants - he's certainly better behaved than I am. > An important part of free speech and open debate is listening to he > views of others who we may not necessarily agree with. If we censor > everyone who we do not agree with then we are doomed to an Orwellian > nightmare. I hope you'll reconsider what seems to me to be an overlay > hasty and unnecessary response. > > Regards, > > Paul > > -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
