Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

> Isnt that the flavour of animal suffering?!

 

You mean the flavour of barbeque pringles? In which case I'd say no, the

flavour is a taste which, when created by pringles or by roasting a pig on a

fire, happens to be caused by animal suffering. But when created by, say,

the combination of a bunch of non-animal products, it is no longer the

flavour of animal suffering but the flavour of a combination of a bunch of

non-animal products. Which is to say that I see flavour is a kind of

emergent property of a product, but not necessarily unique to that product.

I'd have no problem eating something with the taste of barbeque pringles,

just so long as it wasn't a barbeque pringle.

 

John

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/13/03 2:06:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dave4sale writes:

 

I agree. unless they start putting in fake bones / veins in the fake

chicken i'm all for fake meats. What bothers me a lot more is all of

the lacto-ovo vegetarian foods that I've gotten in the past, thinking

they vegan, only to realize i overlooked casein, whey protein, or egg

whites. why do they have to ruin all these great foods with dairy /

egg products? that isn't rhetorical, seriously, does anyone have an

answer?

 

simple...

there is a glut on the market for egg and milk products...sooo..the dairy and related industries push em big time to get them incoporated into many different products...

besides..since they are so ubiquitos(yeah, SIC), it is easier to go with wot you know, then to come up with new binders and stabilizers and the like

cheers

fraggle

[Guest guest]

i'm confused. is there something not vegan about bbq pringles? i

haven't eaten those in years.

 

oh yeah, i emailed amy's organic foods about why they put casein in

their soy cheese pizza and they said that soy cheese just doesn't

melt right without milk protein.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave

 

> oh yeah, i emailed amy's organic foods about why they put casein in > their soy cheese pizza and they said that soy cheese just doesn't > melt right without milk protein.

I'm still intrigued as to who they think eats soy cheese. Most non-vegans I know who can't eat "regular" dairy just go for goats of sheeps cheese.

 

BB

Peter

 

---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release 25/06/03

[Guest guest]

Pringles is one of the many companies owned by the evil Procter & Gamble.

 

Danielle

 

 

 

" This is your American dream

Everything is simple in the white and the black

You will never need to see the grey anymore

You will never have to be afraid. " --Everclear

 

 

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

" dave " <dave4sale

 

 

Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:21:20 -0000

 

i'm confused. is there something not vegan about bbq pringles? i

haven't eaten those in years.

 

oh yeah, i emailed amy's organic foods about why they put casein in

their soy cheese pizza and they said that soy cheese just doesn't

melt right without milk protein.

 

_______________

Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Guest guest]

thats a great point, pete. i guess they think lactose intolerant

people, or people avoiding saturated fat, but seeing as how amy's is

a vegetarian company, you'd think they would realize some people have

ethical objections to dairy products in general... in the email they

just told me to get the roasted vegetable cheeseless pizza.

 

, " Peter " <metalscarab@o...> wrote:

 

>

> I'm still intrigued as to who they think eats soy cheese. Most non-

vegans I know who can't eat " regular " dairy just go for goats of

sheeps cheese.

>

> BB

> Peter

[Guest guest]

hi valley vegan,

i am visiting bargoed in august hopefully, and i am going to carry all my little bits of foodstuffs with me, or i will end up being given cheese (yuch) or god help me, egg..................

whats tescos in ystrad like for vegan foodstuffs??..........do they do any organic veg??

catherine

>swpgh01 > > >Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs >Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:48:26 GMT+01:00 > > >Each to his own, I try and gently steer my family and friends away from these personally. They accept my lifestyle without compromise and for that I am lucky and thank them for their understanding ( also I am a stubborn bastard!). >The Valley Vegan.... > > Here here! It helps me and my husband and the two Vegans we know in WI. It also helps in that my family wouldn't even consider eating at our place without them. Invite them over for all rice, beans, veggies...yeah right! This way we get them to eat Vegan every now and then. Even if they'll never go Vege (which they won't, trust me) at least that's something. > > > >Take care, > >Tammy > > - > > Danielle Kichler > > > > Saturday, July 12, 2003 6:09 PM > > Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs > > > > > > I don't think it's defeatist at all. If companies can give people great > > alternatives to animal products that taste great, but are cruelty-free, and > > it helps people either reduce their dead animal consumption or go veg*an > > entirely, that's a good thing. It may defeatist to you, but the analogues > > help me greatly. I think there's enough of a difference not to bother me. > > > > Danielle > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > swpgh01 > > > > > > Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs > > Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:40:50 GMT+01:00 > > > > Who is talking about boycotting anything, I was only trying to start a new > > thread! My personal opinion on which is that having an alternative to animal > > products that look and taste the same seems a bit self defeatist as a vegan > > - i would not want to be reminded of the animal version and suffering every > > time i eat the facsimile, it would destroy whatever appetite i had to start > > with! > > The Valley Vegan.... > >Peter H > >-------------------- >talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com > Have more fun with your mobile - add polyphonic ringtones, java games, celebrity voicemails and loads more! Click here to get started.

[Guest guest]

Yeah. Let's not encourage meat eaters to go Vege by making it easier/more inviting to them. Let's be worried about the nutritional value of analogues.... As if it can compare to the bad nutrition from meat? Any health conscious person is going to use meat analogues more as a transition food, maybe having it as a treat after they transition over.

 

If you don't want it, don't eat it. Don't campaign to take it away from those who do want it when it alleviates animal suffering.

 

I know I would have had a much harder time without them and I doubt I would have been able to get my husband to give all meat up if it hadn't been for them. We don't eat as much of them now, and will probably eat less as time goes on. In the meantime it's nice to have such a good variety of choices in meals (with and without analogues). Not all of us has the time to sit home trying dozens of recipes in a short time while changing over. Nor can some of us stand to make eating into a chore rather than a pleasure.

 

Some people just don't understand how difficult it can be switching from a typical American diet to a Vegan one in a short period of time. Finding all the bad stuff in the house and getting rid of it. Finding all new recipes, trying them out. Learning how to use things like tofu and egg substitutes. Learning what we need nutrition-wise. Finding all kinds of replacements/new items at the stores. Dealing with people resistant to your change. Why make it harder?

 

Take care,

Tammy

 

 

-

swpgh01

Saturday, July 19, 2003 10:43 AM

Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

I still believe that we should move away from producing/consuming these "analogues" and try and encourage the manufacturers to use their imagination and not produce something that resembles a dead animal product or use a name that associates with the dead animal product...has anyone checked the nutritional value of these "analogues"?With a whole range of fruit/vegetables/grains/pulses/nuts etc I hope that the need for these animal alternative meals soon diminishes.Having not eaten any animal product for over 15 years I certainly do not remember, let alone miss the flavour of animal suffering..Peace , Love and Understanding to you all....The Valley Vegan....

[Guest guest]

You are lucky. I'm very stubborn as well but it's still a pain having to deal with closed-minded, unaccepting people....especially when they're your family.

 

Take care,

Tammy

 

 

-

swpgh01

Saturday, July 19, 2003 10:48 AM

Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

Each to his own, I try and gently steer my family and friends away from these personally. They accept my lifestyle without compromise and for that I am lucky and thank them for their understanding ( also I am a stubborn bastard!).The Valley Vegan.... > Here here! It helps me and my husband and the two Vegans we know in WI. It also helps in that my family wouldn't even consider eating at our place without them. Invite them over for all rice, beans, veggies...yeah right! This way we get them to eat Vegan every now and then. Even if they'll never go Vege (which they won't, trust me) at least that's something.>>Take care,>Tammy

[Guest guest]

My thoughts exactly, Tammy.

 

 

 

" This is your American dream

Everything is simple in the white and the black

You will never need to see the grey anymore

You will never have to be afraid. " --Everclear

 

 

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

" Tammy " <kittytooo

 

 

Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

Sat, 19 Jul 2003 10:13:52 -0500

 

Yeah. Let's not encourage meat eaters to go Vege by making it easier/more

inviting to them. Let's be worried about the nutritional value of

analogues.... As if it can compare to the bad nutrition from meat? Any

health conscious person is going to use meat analogues more as a transition

food, maybe having it as a treat after they transition over.

 

If you don't want it, don't eat it. Don't campaign to take it away from

those who do want it when it alleviates animal suffering.

 

I know I would have had a much harder time without them and I doubt I would

have been able to get my husband to give all meat up if it hadn't been for

them. We don't eat as much of them now, and will probably eat less as time

goes on. In the meantime it's nice to have such a good variety of choices

in meals (with and without analogues). Not all of us has the time to sit

home trying dozens of recipes in a short time while changing over. Nor can

some of us stand to make eating into a chore rather than a pleasure.

 

Some people just don't understand how difficult it can be switching from a

typical American diet to a Vegan one in a short period of time. Finding all

the bad stuff in the house and getting rid of it. Finding all new recipes,

trying them out. Learning how to use things like tofu and egg substitutes.

Learning what we need nutrition-wise. Finding all kinds of replacements/new

items at the stores. Dealing with people resistant to your change. Why

make it harder?

 

Take care,

Tammy

 

-

swpgh01

Saturday, July 19, 2003 10:43 AM

Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

 

 

 

I still believe that we should move away from producing/consuming these

" analogues " and try and encourage the manufacturers to use their imagination

and not produce something that resembles a dead animal product or use a name

that associates with the dead animal product...has anyone checked the

nutritional value of these " analogues " ?

With a whole range of fruit/vegetables/grains/pulses/nuts etc I hope that

the need for these animal alternative meals soon diminishes.Having not eaten

any animal product for over 15 years I certainly do not remember, let alone

miss the flavour of animal suffering..

Peace , Love and Understanding to you all....The Valley Vegan....

 

_______________

Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Guest guest]

Glad to know I made sense...I'm barely awake (work 2nd shift, stay up late).

 

Take care,

Tammy

 

 

-

Danielle Kichler

Saturday, July 19, 2003 10:26 AM

Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

My thoughts exactly, Tammy.

[Guest guest]

I still believe that we should move away from producing/consuming these

" analogues " and try and encourage the manufacturers to use their imagination and

not produce something that resembles a dead animal product or use a name that

associates with the dead animal product...has anyone checked the nutritional

value of these " analogues " ?

With a whole range of fruit/vegetables/grains/pulses/nuts etc I hope that the

need for these animal alternative meals soon diminishes.Having not eaten any

animal product for over 15 years I certainly do not remember, let alone miss the

flavour of animal suffering..

Peace , Love and Understanding to you all....The Valley Vegan....

 

I don't think it's defeatist at all. If companies can give people great

alternatives to animal products that taste great, but are cruelty-free, and

it helps people either reduce their dead animal consumption or go veg*an

entirely, that's a good thing. It may defeatist to you, but the analogues

help me greatly. I think there's enough of a difference not to bother me.

 

Danielle

My personal opinion on which is that having an alternative to animal

products that look and taste the same seems a bit self defeatist as a vegan

- i would not want to be reminded of the animal version and suffering every

time i eat the facsimile, it would destroy whatever appetite i had to start

with!

The Valley Vegan....

 

>

 

Peter H

 

--------------------

talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at

http://www.talk21.com

[Guest guest]

Each to his own, I try and gently steer my family and friends away from these

personally. They accept my lifestyle without compromise and for that I am lucky

and thank them for their understanding ( also I am a stubborn bastard!).

The Valley Vegan....

> Here here! It helps me and my husband and the two Vegans we know in WI. It

also helps in that my family wouldn't even consider eating at our place without

them. Invite them over for all rice, beans, veggies...yeah right! This way we

get them to eat Vegan every now and then. Even if they'll never go Vege (which

they won't, trust me) at least that's something.

>

>Take care,

>Tammy

> -

> Danielle Kichler

>

> Saturday, July 12, 2003 6:09 PM

> Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

>

>

> I don't think it's defeatist at all. If companies can give people great

> alternatives to animal products that taste great, but are cruelty-free, and

> it helps people either reduce their dead animal consumption or go veg*an

> entirely, that's a good thing. It may defeatist to you, but the analogues

> help me greatly. I think there's enough of a difference not to bother me.

>

> Danielle

>

>

> ----Original Message Follows----

> swpgh01

>

>

> Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

> Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:40:50 GMT+01:00

>

> Who is talking about boycotting anything, I was only trying to start a new

> thread! My personal opinion on which is that having an alternative to animal

> products that look and taste the same seems a bit self defeatist as a vegan

> - i would not want to be reminded of the animal version and suffering every

> time i eat the facsimile, it would destroy whatever appetite i had to start

> with!

> The Valley Vegan....

 

Peter H

 

--------------------

talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at

http://www.talk21.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/24/03 11:08:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kittytooo writes:

 

 

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

And, of course, you're criticism is a so much higher attitude.

 

 

ok..play nice kids..

disagree all ya like..

just..try and be treat others as you want to be treated

k?

pwease?

(this ain't a slam at Tammy..just respondin to her post...)

[Guest guest]

Tammy,

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

I understand your point of view, as I said I have been vegan for 15 years and

vegie for 5 before that so it may well be that I cannot remember how hard it was

switching diet. I just hope that for you it gets easier.

I stick by my original viewpoint ( and it is just my point of view), that we

should be encouraging these analogue producers to use their imaginations a bit

more and move away from animal named/flavoured products.

To quote an old hippy.....does anyone remember laughter?

The Valley Vegan.

> Yeah. Let's not encourage meat eaters to go Vege by making it easier/more

inviting to them. Let's be worried about the nutritional value of analogues....

As if it can compare to the bad nutrition from meat? Any health conscious

person is going to use meat analogues more as a transition food, maybe having it

as a treat after they transition over.

>

>If you don't want it, don't eat it. Don't campaign to take it away from those

who do want it when it alleviates animal suffering.

>

>I know I would have had a much harder time without them and I doubt I would

have been able to get my husband to give all meat up if it hadn't been for them.

We don't eat as much of them now, and will probably eat less as time goes on.

In the meantime it's nice to have such a good variety of choices in meals (with

and without analogues). Not all of us has the time to sit home trying dozens of

recipes in a short time while changing over. Nor can some of us stand to make

eating into a chore rather than a pleasure.

>

>Some people just don't understand how difficult it can be switching from a

typical American diet to a Vegan one in a short period of time. Finding all the

bad stuff in the house and getting rid of it. Finding all new recipes, trying

them out. Learning how to use things like tofu and egg substitutes. Learning

what we need nutrition-wise. Finding all kinds of replacements/new items at the

stores. Dealing with people resistant to your change. Why make it harder?

>

>Take care,

>Tammy

>

> -

> swpgh01

>

> Saturday, July 19, 2003 10:43 AM

> Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

>

>

>

> I still believe that we should move away from producing/consuming these

" analogues " and try and encourage the manufacturers to use their imagination and

not produce something that resembles a dead animal product or use a name that

associates with the dead animal product...has anyone checked the nutritional

value of these " analogues " ?

> With a whole range of fruit/vegetables/grains/pulses/nuts etc I hope that the

need for these animal alternative meals soon diminishes.Having not eaten any

animal product for over 15 years I certainly do not remember, let alone miss the

flavour of animal suffering..

> Peace , Love and Understanding to you all....The Valley Vegan....

 

Peter H

 

--------------------

talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at

http://www.talk21.com

[Guest guest]

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.And, of course, you're criticism is a so much higher attitude.

 

Maybe if you weren't so controlling, trying to tell others what they should and shouldn't eat, judging them for eating it (especially when we're talking about something that causes no harm to animals), you wouldn't encourage that kind of response.

 

I understand your point of view, as I said I have been vegan for 15 years and vegie for 5 before that so it may well be that I cannot remember how hard it was switching diet.

 

Of course you wouldn't remember how difficult it was to go from eating meat, dairy, eggs, etc to being Vegan, as you never did so. You went from meat-eater to Vegetarian, a much easier switch. Then from Vegetarian to Vegan, much easier again, once you're used to being Vegetarian. Also, when you went Vegetarian there were no meat analogues, so the only choices you had were meat or no meat. Had you had the meat analogues available when you first Vegetarian you would probably have been more open to and grateful for it.

 

Again, you do what's right for you and others will do what's right for them, no need to criticize others, or try to take their choices away, because you don't want what they do.

 

Can't you just be happy we're choosing a lifestyle (Veganism) that decreases harm to animals, the planet, etc. and leave it at that?

 

It's bad enough Veges have to deal with criticism from meat eaters on what we do or don't eat. Do we really have to criticize each other as well?

 

Take care,

Tammy

 

 

-

swpgh01

Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:41 AM

Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

Tammy,Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.I understand your point of view, as I said I have been vegan for 15 years and vegie for 5 before that so it may well be that I cannot remember how hard it was switching diet. I just hope that for you it gets easier.I stick by my original viewpoint ( and it is just my point of view), that we should be encouraging these analogue producers to use their imaginations a bit more and move away from animal named/flavoured products.To quote an old hippy.....does anyone remember laughter?The Valley Vegan.> Yeah. Let's not encourage meat eaters to go Vege by making it easier/more inviting to them. Let's be worried about the nutritional value of analogues.... As if it can compare to the bad nutrition from meat? Any health conscious person is going to use meat analogues more as a transition food, maybe having it as a treat after they transition over. >>If you don't want it, don't eat it. Don't campaign to take it away from those who do want it when it alleviates animal suffering.>>I know I would have had a much harder time without them and I doubt I would have been able to get my husband to give all meat up if it hadn't been for them. We don't eat as much of them now, and will probably eat less as time goes on. In the meantime it's nice to have such a good variety of choices in meals (with and without analogues). Not all of us has the time to sit home trying dozens of recipes in a short time while changing over. Nor can some of us stand to make eating into a chore rather than a pleasure. >>Some people just don't understand how difficult it can be switching from a typical American diet to a Vegan one in a short period of time. Finding all the bad stuff in the house and getting rid of it. Finding all new recipes, trying them out. Learning how to use things like tofu and egg substitutes. Learning what we need nutrition-wise. Finding all kinds of replacements/new items at the stores. Dealing with people resistant to your change. Why make it harder?>>Take care,>Tammy>

[Guest guest]

> ok..play nice kids..> disagree all ya like..> just..try and be treat others as you want to be treated

 

I'll second Fraggle's comments! Not picking on anyone in particular, just pointing out that there's a bit of tension creeping into the discussion.

 

BB

Peter

 

 

---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release 14/07/03

[Guest guest]

Yeah, looks like he's making a bid for list police-person!

 

 

Peter [metalscarab]Thursday, July 24, 2003 9:47 PM Subject: Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

> ok..play nice kids..> disagree all ya like..> just..try and be treat others as you want to be treated

 

I'll second Fraggle's comments! Not picking on anyone in particular, just pointing out that there's a bit of tension creeping into the discussion.

 

BB

Peter

 

 

---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release 14/07/03To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

I disagree, Valley Vegan. I quite enjoy a little sarcastic rejoinder. It's

quite a handy tool sometimes, IMO, and in this case, was quite warranted.

 

Danielle

 

 

 

" This is your American dream

Everything is simple in the white and the black

You will never need to see the grey anymore

You will never have to be afraid. " --Everclear

 

 

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

swpgh01

 

 

Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:41:34 GMT+01:00

 

 

Tammy,

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

I understand your point of view, as I said I have been vegan for 15 years

and vegie for 5 before that so it may well be that I cannot remember how

hard it was switching diet. I just hope that for you it gets easier.

I stick by my original viewpoint ( and it is just my point of view), that we

should be encouraging these analogue producers to use their imaginations a

bit more and move away from animal named/flavoured products.

To quote an old hippy.....does anyone remember laughter?

The Valley Vegan.

> Yeah. Let's not encourage meat eaters to go Vege by making it

easier/more inviting to them. Let's be worried about the nutritional value

of analogues.... As if it can compare to the bad nutrition from meat? Any

health conscious person is going to use meat analogues more as a transition

food, maybe having it as a treat after they transition over.

>

>If you don't want it, don't eat it. Don't campaign to take it away from

those who do want it when it alleviates animal suffering.

>

>I know I would have had a much harder time without them and I doubt I

would have been able to get my husband to give all meat up if it hadn't been

for them. We don't eat as much of them now, and will probably eat less as

time goes on. In the meantime it's nice to have such a good variety of

choices in meals (with and without analogues). Not all of us has the time

to sit home trying dozens of recipes in a short time while changing over.

Nor can some of us stand to make eating into a chore rather than a pleasure.

>

>Some people just don't understand how difficult it can be switching from a

typical American diet to a Vegan one in a short period of time. Finding all

the bad stuff in the house and getting rid of it. Finding all new recipes,

trying them out. Learning how to use things like tofu and egg substitutes.

Learning what we need nutrition-wise. Finding all kinds of replacements/new

items at the stores. Dealing with people resistant to your change. Why

make it harder?

>

>Take care,

>Tammy

>

> -

> swpgh01

>

> Saturday, July 19, 2003 10:43 AM

> Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

>

>

>

> I still believe that we should move away from producing/consuming these

" analogues " and try and encourage the manufacturers to use their imagination

and not produce something that resembles a dead animal product or use a name

that associates with the dead animal product...has anyone checked the

nutritional value of these " analogues " ?

> With a whole range of fruit/vegetables/grains/pulses/nuts etc I hope

that the need for these animal alternative meals soon diminishes.Having not

eaten any animal product for over 15 years I certainly do not remember, let

alone miss the flavour of animal suffering..

> Peace , Love and Understanding to you all....The Valley Vegan....

 

Peter H

 

--------------------

talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at

http://www.talk21.com

 

_______________

Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

[Guest guest]

I play nice without a problem...till someone doesn't.

 

What can I say? I'm a Scorpio. I get along just fine till someone tries to grab my tail.

 

 

Then there's the whole Kitty thing... Kitties can be sweet and cuddly....till you rub them the wrong way, then watch out for the claws, especially if they're a tiger in disguise. mew mew ROAR!

 

 

Take care,

Tammy

 

 

 

-

EBbrewpunx

Thursday, July 24, 2003 2:07 PM

Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

In a message dated 7/24/03 11:08:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kittytooo writes:

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.And, of course, you're criticism is a so much higher attitude.ok..play nice kids..disagree all ya like..just..try and be treat others as you want to be treatedk?pwease?(this ain't a slam at Tammy..just respondin to her post...)

[Guest guest]

Why thank you Danielle! Glad to know someone appreciates my warm and fuzzy nature.

 

Take care,

Tammy

 

-

 

Danielle Kichler

Thursday, July 24, 2003 7:43 PM

Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

I disagree, Valley Vegan. I quite enjoy a little sarcastic rejoinder. It's quite a handy tool sometimes, IMO, and in this case, was quite warranted.Danielle

[Guest guest]

I don`t know why you are taking this point of view ( once again I shall state

that it is only a point of view) so personally. This is a discussion group and I

was just trying to start a new thread and put my personal view forward not

trying to control anyone. I think you may have got hold of the wrong end off the

stick on this. Each to his own. LIGHTEN UP A LITTLE.....

The Valley Vegan

> Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

>And, of course, you're criticism is a so much higher attitude.

>

>Maybe if you weren't so controlling, trying to tell others what they should and

shouldn't eat, judging them for eating it (especially when we're talking about

something that causes no harm to animals), you wouldn't encourage that kind of

response.

>

>I understand your point of view, as I said I have been vegan for 15 years and

vegie for 5 before that so it may well be that I cannot remember how hard it was

switching diet.

>

>Of course you wouldn't remember how difficult it was to go from eating meat,

dairy, eggs, etc to being Vegan, as you never did so. You went from meat-eater

to Vegetarian, a much easier switch. Then from Vegetarian to Vegan, much easier

again, once you're used to being Vegetarian. Also, when you went Vegetarian

there were no meat analogues, so the only choices you had were meat or no meat.

Had you had the meat analogues available when you first Vegetarian you would

probably have been more open to and grateful for it.

>

>Again, you do what's right for you and others will do what's right for them, no

need to criticize others, or try to take their choices away, because you don't

want what they do.

>

>Can't you just be happy we're choosing a lifestyle (Veganism) that decreases

harm to animals, the planet, etc. and leave it at that?

>

>It's bad enough Veges have to deal with criticism from meat eaters on what we

do or don't eat. Do we really have to criticize each other as well?

>

>Take care,

>Tammy

>

> -

> swpgh01

>

> Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:41 AM

> Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

>

>

>

> Tammy,

> Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

> I understand your point of view, as I said I have been vegan for 15 years and

vegie for 5 before that so it may well be that I cannot remember how hard it was

switching diet. I just hope that for you it gets easier.

> I stick by my original viewpoint ( and it is just my point of view), that we

should be encouraging these analogue producers to use their imaginations a bit

more and move away from animal named/flavoured products.

> To quote an old hippy.....does anyone remember laughter?

> The Valley Vegan.

> > Yeah. Let's not encourage meat eaters to go Vege by making it easier/more

inviting to them. Let's be worried about the nutritional value of analogues....

As if it can compare to the bad nutrition from meat? Any health conscious

person is going to use meat analogues more as a transition food, maybe having it

as a treat after they transition over.

> >

> >If you don't want it, don't eat it. Don't campaign to take it away from

those who do want it when it alleviates animal suffering.

> >

> >I know I would have had a much harder time without them and I doubt I would

have been able to get my husband to give all meat up if it hadn't been for them.

We don't eat as much of them now, and will probably eat less as time goes on.

In the meantime it's nice to have such a good variety of choices in meals (with

and without analogues). Not all of us has the time to sit home trying dozens of

recipes in a short time while changing over. Nor can some of us stand to make

eating into a chore rather than a pleasure.

> >

> >Some people just don't understand how difficult it can be switching from a

typical American diet to a Vegan one in a short period of time. Finding all the

bad stuff in the house and getting rid of it. Finding all new recipes, trying

them out. Learning how to use things like tofu and egg substitutes. Learning

what we need nutrition-wise. Finding all kinds of replacements/new items at the

stores. Dealing with people resistant to your change. Why make it harder?

> >

> >Take care,

> >Tammy

> >

 

Peter H

 

--------------------

talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at

http://www.talk21.com

[Guest guest]

Must be something in water signs (I'm a Cancer). I'm nice until it's time

not to be nice (i.e., someone irritates me).

 

Danielle

 

 

 

" This is your American dream

Everything is simple in the white and the black

You will never need to see the grey anymore

You will never have to be afraid. " --Everclear

 

 

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

" Tammy " <kittytooo

 

 

Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:42:38 -0500

 

I play nice without a problem...till someone doesn't.

 

What can I say? I'm a Scorpio. I get along just fine till someone tries to

grab my tail.

 

Then there's the whole Kitty thing... Kitties can be sweet and

cuddly....till you rub them the wrong way, then watch out for the claws,

especially if they're a tiger in disguise. mew mew ROAR!

 

 

Take care,

Tammy

 

 

 

-

EBbrewpunx

Thursday, July 24, 2003 2:07 PM

Re: Animal Alternative Foodstuffs

 

 

In a message dated 7/24/03 11:08:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

kittytooo writes:

 

 

 

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

And, of course, you're criticism is a so much higher attitude.

 

 

 

ok..play nice kids..

disagree all ya like..

just..try and be treat others as you want to be treated

k?

pwease?

(this ain't a slam at Tammy..just respondin to her post...)

 

_______________

Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

[Guest guest]

Hi Viv

 

> Yeah, looks like he's making a bid for list police-person!

 

Suits me :-)

 

BB

Peter

 

---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release 14/07/03