Would you? Could you? Should you?

[Guest guest]

if there were such an event as the second return of the messiah, she would be poor, speaking of god, and would be sectioned within the week to a mental hospital as being in a paranoid delusional state.............

which of course is just all a matter of opinion, as it always is.........

catherine

 

 

>"Danielle Kichler"

> > >Re: Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? >Mon, 05 May 2003 20:18:41 -0400 > >When we talk to god, we're praying, but when god talks to us, we're >schizophrenic. > >The Mad Vegan Agnostic. > > > >"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"--Jeanette Rankin > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- >"Vegecentric"

> >

>Re: Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? >Mon, 5 May 2003 22:17:02 -0700 > >Conversations with God... conjures up images of a drooling man in a >straight-jacket gibbering to himself... > >(Born Again Atheist) > - > Marit > > Monday, May 05, 2003 4:31 AM > Re: Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? > > > If you really want to know what God has to say about that then you should >read Converstation with God books by Neale Donald Walsch. They do talk about >that issue too. > - > quercusrobur2002 > > Monday, May 05, 2003 2:12 PM > Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? > > > , then christians should at least aspire to the plant foods and i't > shouldn't mean giving up humous,chocolate, soya ice-cream etc as > these come from plant type foods. > > > > What's god got to say about food miles, overpackaging and > processing, labour exploitation, cash crops, genetically modified > crops and monocultural growing systems leading to soil erosion and > nitrate build ups in the ground water as entailed in the commercial > mass production of cocoa, soya and chick peas??? > > > > To send an email to - > >

[Guest guest]

Conversations with God... conjures up images of a drooling man in a straight-jacket gibbering to himself...

 

(Born Again Atheist)

 

-

Marit

Monday, May 05, 2003 4:31 AM

Re: Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

If you really want to know what God has to say about that then you should read Converstation with God books by Neale Donald Walsch. They do talk about that issue too.

 

-

quercusrobur2002

Monday, May 05, 2003 2:12 PM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

, then christians should at least aspire to the plant foods and i't shouldn't mean giving up humous,chocolate, soya ice-cream etc as these come from plant type foods.> What's god got to say about food miles, overpackaging and processing, labour exploitation, cash crops, genetically modified crops and monocultural growing systems leading to soil erosion and nitrate build ups in the ground water as entailed in the commercial mass production of cocoa, soya and chick peas???To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Good point!

 

-

janewwt

Monday, May 05, 2003 5:36 AM

Re: Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

They don't actually make straight-jackets anymore. But why is someone conversing with god religious & someone conversing with fairies insane?

 

-

Vegecentric

Tuesday, May 06, 2003 6:17 AM

Re: Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

Conversations with God... conjures up images of a drooling man in a straight-jacket gibbering to himself...

 

(Born Again Atheist)

 

-

Marit

Monday, May 05, 2003 4:31 AM

Re: Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

If you really want to know what God has to say about that then you should read Converstation with God books by Neale Donald Walsch. They do talk about that issue too.

 

-

quercusrobur2002

Monday, May 05, 2003 2:12 PM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

, then christians should at least aspire to the plant foods and i't shouldn't mean giving up humous,chocolate, soya ice-cream etc as these come from plant type foods.> What's god got to say about food miles, overpackaging and processing, labour exploitation, cash crops, genetically modified crops and monocultural growing systems leading to soil erosion and nitrate build ups in the ground water as entailed in the commercial mass production of cocoa, soya and chick peas???To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

The Aztecs reckoned chocolate was " food of the gods " . If god sits around

stuffing his face with chocolate all day, then he's alright with me.

 

Tom

 

-

" quercusrobur2002 " <grahamburnett

 

Monday, May 05, 2003 5:49 AM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

 

>

> > I'm no expert but couldn't soya, cocoa etc be grown locally in

> poly

> > tunnels basically anywhere in the world?.

> >

>

> OK then, what's god got to say about the petrochemical industry and

> the wars for oil which enable us to generate the plastic in order to

> cover the globe with huge polytunnels?

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

-

" Danielle Kichler " <veggietart

 

Tuesday, May 06, 2003 1:25 AM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

There is science which proves that the millions of years theories can't be

all that correct. For instants bottles and other human made artefacts have

been found which have solid rock formed around them. And trees have been

found up-right under the ground, when it's supposed to take millions of

years for the ground layers to form, I'm no expert but have seen photo taken

by archaeologist Professor Walter Keith at a public talk he was giving in

London a while back.Don't forget the Mammoth was an elephant that lived in

the colder parts of the world,hence the hair.

 

Simon

> The humans and the dinosaurs never coexisted. Scientific research has

shown

> that dinosaurs died out millions of years before the first human set food

on

> the ground.

>

> Danielle

>

>

>

> " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette

Rankin

>

>

>

>

>

> ----Original Message Follows----

> " simonpjones " <simonpjones

>

>

> Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

> Mon, 5 May 2003 14:54:04 +0100

>

>

> -

> " Danielle Kichler " <veggietart

>

> Monday, May 05, 2003 12:51 PM

> Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

>

>

> > From my limited knowledge of creationism (which totally ignores the

> > existence of dinosaurs,>

>

> I can't see how dinosaurs are ignored. Are they not part of the " every

> creature that moves along the ground " that are mentioned on the fifth and

> sixth day.Crocodiles and kangaroos are not mentioned either.

> Not forgetting, it's reckoned that only about 10% of known creatures exist

> today.>

> .

> > The argument meat-eating x-tians use is " god gave humans dominion over

> the

> > animals, " although I have no idea where that appears. I can only guess

> that

> > someone misinterpreted that as " domination, " based on the way we treat

> them.>

>

> Bible Quote. Genesis 1:28 " God blessed them and said to them, " Be fruitful

> and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish

of

> the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that

moves

> on the ground. "

> 29-Then God said " I give you every seed- bearing plant on the face of the

> whole earth and every tree that has seed in it. They will be yours for

> food.30- And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air

and

> all the creatures that move on the ground - everything that moves on the

> ground - I give every green plant for food. " and it was so.

>

> I can't see how anyone can say it's saying anything other then we and

> animals should be eating plant type foods.

>

>

> Some Bibles use the word dominion some rule etc,

> > However, you could certainly argue that since we are the only

creatures

> > given free will, we can decide if we will be stewards or pillagers of

the

> > earth. We can use our dominion for good or for evil. The modern food

> > animal industries use their powers for evil, to cause great harm to

other

> > creatures.

> >

> > Danielle

> >

> >

> >

> > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette

> Rankin

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ----Original Message Follows----

> > <janewwt

> >

> >

> > Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

> > Mon, 5 May 2003 08:01:17 +0100

> >

> > Amylia,

> > I'm not a Christian so maybe I'm missing the point. But

the

> > argument that I get from Christians supporting meat eating is that the

> > big-man upstairs put animals on the earth for humans use (inc eating).

Is

> > there a passage in the bible that explicitly states this, or, is it

down

> to

> > subjective interpretation? Is it that this passage only refers to seeds

> > because 'he' hadn't got around to creating other animals yet? Sorry for

> > asking possibly v. naive questions, but I want to be fully prepared for

> my

> > next 'lively debate' with my brother who happens to be a Christian

> > meat-eater (interesting how siblings can be so different).

> > I'll certainly look at the web-site you suggested,

> >

> > Many thanks

> >

> > ;-) Jani

> > -

> > Amylia F

> >

> > Sunday, May 04, 2003 6:03 PM

> > Re: Would you? Could you?

> >

> >

> > Jani,

> >

> > Without getting too religious on you, I guess I just keep

> thinking

> > of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. I know religion is seen as a

> > philosophy itself, but in the Bible Genesis 1:29-30 God tells Adam and

> Eve

> > that He has given them all the seed-bearing plants, and fruit trees for

> > food. And the birds and animals get all the grass and plants for their

> > food.---Like I said, I'm NOT trying to preach, just wanted you to know

> where

> > I was coming from. (I just wish I liked fruit more. Apples, bananas,

and

> > grapes are okay, but everything else, ....yuck!) Now, as I write this,

> I'm

> > thinking something: I've seen carrot seeds in the store, but when I

eat

> a

> > carrot, there's no seed inside, like apples, or oranges. How is this

> > possible? I don't understand.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > *This message was brought to you by: Amy

> > >

> > >

> > >To:

> > >Re: Would you? Could you?

> > >Sat, 3 May 2003 17:34:23 +0100

> > >

> > >Well Amy, I do remember seeing a 'Tales of the Unexpected' story

> where

> a

> > man chopping down a tree could hear it screaming - I think it drove him

> > bonkers. Actually that's the only thing I remember about the episode,

so

> if

> > anyone knows the rest, perhaps they could enlighten us!

> > >Perhaps the dilemmas that you've highlighted could explain raw food

> > eaters. Or is that a different philosophy altogether?

> > >

> > >Jani

> > >

> > >P.S. There was another story about a bee-keeper - I can't remember

> much

> > about that either!!!

> > > -

> > > Amylia F

> > >

> > > Saturday, May 03, 2003 4:57 PM

> > > Would you? Could you?

> > >

> > >

> > > I just finished reading all the postings on " honey. " See, that's

why

> I

> > love you guys. You always have something thought-provoking to say, and

I

> > just eat it up. (Yum!) And now, I've already asked a similar question

to

> > this but, would you, or could you become a fruitarian? I heard about

them

> 7

> > years ago. I found their official website, but haven't had the hours to

> go

> > through it. I'm attracted to them, because it just seems so " pure. "

(I've

> > even heard they refuse to pick fruit off trees, but instead wait for it

> to

> > fall to the ground----that way it's no longer connected to the source

of

> > life, the tree. Once it's on the ground, it's a product of the

> tree.---See

> > the difference?) Like I said, it seems pure, because there are people

> that

> > believe eating carrots is murder. ---Why? Because they are pulled out

> from

> > under the ground, thus ending their life, un like apples which are a

> product

> > of the tree, not the tree itself. And another thing, I did once have

this

> > guy tell me that eating vegetables hurts plants. I know plants do not

> have

> a

> > face, but do they have feelings? --Well, I feel funny just asking that

> > question. But does anyone feel they are " killing " plants at all? Or

maybe

> > choosing the lesser of two evils by eating plants instead of

> animals?---Just

> > wondering...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > *This message was brought to you by: Amy

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

>---------

> ---

> > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*

> > >

[Guest guest]

 

-

Vegecentric

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 6:44 AM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

The interesting part about the bible is at the start of the bible the writer says...that humans and animals should eat plant-type foods...meaning animals shouldn't eat animals..Can u top that...as a civilized way to live?

 

S

 

Let's be honest, the bible is just a load of re-re-hashed old crap outdated by about 2,000 years. Would you honestly live your life by the primitive musings of ancient middle east tribes? I like to believe civilisation has moved beyond that.

 

Tom

 

-

Catherine Harris

Monday, May 05, 2003 2:26 PM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

 

 

hi all,

what stories/gospels went into the new testament was decided by a council of bishops in rome in circa 500 ad.........lots of more radical eg less mysogynistic stuff was left out.......it all a matter of opinion, and like facts/stories anywhere, can be bent to show any point of view you need.....

catherine

 

>"simonpjones"

> >

>Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? >Mon, 5 May 2003 20:24:28 +0100 > > > - > EBbrewpunx > > Monday, May 05, 2003 4:10 PM > Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? > > > interpretation > the bible is full of contradictions... > in genesis it sez "all the plants and nuts will be as your meat"(i'm paraphrasing.), and a few other places veggieness is definately touted(its a very essene thought)..> > > The word 'meat' in Hebrew means 'food'..... > > Bibles are made up of sixty six books over a long period of time..I'm not convinced that the powers that be( leader etc ) havn't changed some of the meanings and stories to suit themselves. > But l do believe Genesis 1;28...the sixth day paragragh... is the key to a truly civilized world. > > S > > its in places like after the flood that god allows noah to eat animals..... > > > In a message dated 5/5/03 12:07:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, janewwt writes: > > > I'm not a Christian so maybe I'm missing the point. But the argument that I get from Christians supporting meat eating is that the big-man upstairs put animals on the earth for humans use (inc eating). Is there a passage in the bible that explicitly states this, or, is it down to subjective interpretation? Is it that this passage only refers to seeds because 'he' hadn't got around to creating other animals yet? Sorry for asking possibly v. naive questions, but I want to be fully prepared for my next 'lively debate' with my brother who happens to be a Christian meat-eater (interesting how siblings can be so different). > I'll certainly look at the web-site you suggested, > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Technically he's my big bruv but anyway.........

I get what you saying but as my bruv knows that I have v. ltd religious knowledge he uses this in defence to my ethical, moral & just plain commonsense arguments. I just what to surprise him with a Christian based answer.

 

Jani

 

-

simonpjones

Monday, May 05, 2003 8:31 PM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

 

 

-

janewwt

Monday, May 05, 2003 4:42 PM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

Thanks to you all for help with my questions.

Little bruv, beware when you start up with your religious arguments again!!!!

 

Big sis, mine is not a religious argument, more a finding of a practical answer to uncivilized human behaviour,

 

Simon

 

 

Jani

 

-

simonpjones

Monday, May 05, 2003 2:09 PM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

 

 

-

janewwt

Monday, May 05, 2003 12:23 PM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

>Save all the animals to eat them later eh? Why didn't Noah think about throwing a few bags of seeds & grains in the ark as well?

 

I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's what it says.

My main argument with so called christians is, why not go with what the creator first wanted. in the beginning.

 

-

 

simonpjones

Monday, May 05, 2003 11:25 AM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

 

 

-

janewwt

Monday, May 05, 2003 8:01 AM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

Amylia,

I'm not a Christian so maybe I'm missing the point. But the argument that I get from Christians supporting meat eating is that the big-man upstairs put animals on the earth for humans use (inc eating). Is there a passage in the bible that explicitly states this, or, is it down to subjective interpretation?

;-) Jani>

 

Sorry to butt in here.. I don't know if you have access to a bible, if you do, read GEN 1:29 the sixth day. I't clearly says that humans should eat from the seed bearing plants and from the fruit trees...it also says clearly that animals should eat the plants and that everything that has the breath of life in it should eat the green plants...it's clearly saying (if I understand simple english) that not even animals should eat animals. Later on after the flood, the bible says animal eating is ok,...i'ts assumed after such a flood there wouldn't be much fruit to eat. I say if a creator wanted plants to be the food for animals and humans in the beginning, then christians should at least aspire to the plant foods and i't shouldn't mean giving up humous,chocolate, soya ice-cream etc as these come from plant type foods.

 

Simon

 

Message -----

 

Amylia F

Sunday, May 04, 2003 6:03 PM

Re: Would you? Could you?

 

 

 

Jani,

Without getting too religious on you, I guess I just keep thinking of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. I know religion is seen as a philosophy itself, but in the Bible Genesis 1:29-30 God tells Adam and Eve that He has given them all the seed-bearing plants, and fruit trees for food. And the birds and animals get all the grass and plants for their food.---Like I said, I'm NOT trying to preach, just wanted you to know where I was coming from. (I just wish I liked fruit more. Apples, bananas, and grapes are okay, but everything else, ....yuck!) Now, as I write this, I'm thinking something: I've seen carrot seeds in the store, but when I eat a carrot, there's no seed inside, like apples, or oranges. How is this possible? I don't understand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*This message was brought to you by: Amy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

> >

>Re: Would you? Could you? >Sat, 3 May 2003 17:34:23 +0100 > >Well Amy, I do remember seeing a 'Tales of the Unexpected' story where a man chopping down a tree could hear it screaming - I think it drove him bonkers. Actually that's the only thing I remember about the episode, so if anyone knows the rest, perhaps they could enlighten us! >Perhaps the dilemmas that you've highlighted could explain raw food eaters. Or is that a different philosophy altogether? > >Jani > >P.S. There was another story about a bee-keeper - I can't remember much about that either!!! > - > Amylia F > > Saturday, May 03, 2003 4:57 PM > Would you? Could you? > > > I just finished reading all the postings on "honey." See, that's why I love you guys. You always have something thought-provoking to say, and I just eat it up. (Yum!) And now, I've already asked a similar question to this but, would you, or could you become a fruitarian? I heard about them 7 years ago. I found their official website, but haven't had the hours to go through it. I'm attracted to them, because it just seems so "pure." (I've even heard they refuse to pick fruit off trees, but instead wait for it to fall to the ground----that way it's no longer connected to the source of life, the tree. Once it's on the ground, it's a product of the tree.---See the difference?) Like I said, it seems pure, because there are people that believe eating carrots is murder. ---Why? Because they are pulled out from under the ground, thus ending their life, un like apples which are a product of the tree, not the tree itself. And another thing, I did once have this guy tell me that eating vegetables hurts plants. I know plants do not have a face, but do they have feelings? --Well, I feel funny just asking that question. But does anyone feel they are "killing" plants at all? Or maybe choosing the lesser of two evils by eating plants instead of animals?---Just wondering... > > > > *This message was brought to you by: Amy > > > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* >

[Guest guest]

-

<swpgh01

;

Tuesday, May 06, 2003 3:52 PM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

Once upon a time a fairy was flying around nothing and was getting very

bored so decided to create a heaven and an earth.The fairy took six days to

making all kinds of creatures , making man and women the guardians of the

earth. The fairy said to the man and woman " I give you all the fruit bearing

seeds across the whole earth that shall be yours for food and for the

animals the green plants " in fact everything that has the breathe of life

in it that shall be yours for food. Man and woman knew they weren't supposed

to eat from one tree ' the tree of knowledge of good an bad 'so they didn't.

The fairy was a Good/God fairy and let them stay in the garden to eat from

the tree of life to live forever and ever.

Now boys and girls do you know what would of happened if they had eaten

from the tree of knowledge of good and bad. They would have been waved out

of the garden by the good fairy because the fairy didn't want them to eat

from the tree of life while they had eaten from the tree of knowledge of

good and bad, because they would have lived forever doing wrong and the

God/fairy didn't want them living forever doing wrong.

So their lives would have been in hardship only for a short time.

 

Aren't we the lucky ones

 

S

What a God/fairy.

 

S

 

 

 

>

> This is turning into bible class....can we please have more from the

fairies!

> Pete H

> AKA The valley vegan.

> > interpretation

> >the bible is full of contradictions...

> >in genesis it sez " all the plants and nuts will be as your meat " (i'm

> >paraphrasing.), and a few other places veggieness is definately

touted(its a

> >very essene thought)..

> >its in places like after the flood that god allows noah to eat

animals.....

> >

> >

> >In a message dated 5/5/03 12:07:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> >janewwt writes:

> >

> > I'm not a Christian so maybe I'm missing the point. But the

> > argument that I get from Christians supporting meat eating is that the

> > big-man upstairs put animals on the earth for humans use (inc eating).

Is

> > there a passage in the bible that explicitly states this, or, is it down

to

> > subjective interpretation? Is it that this passage only refers to seeds

> > because 'he' hadn't got around to creating other animals yet? Sorry for

> > asking possibly v. naive questions, but I want to be fully prepared for

my

> > next 'lively debate' with my brother who happens to be a Christian

> > meat-eater (interesting how siblings can be so different).

> > I'll certainly look at the web-site you suggested,

> >

> >

>

> Peter H

>

> --------------------

> talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at

http://www.talk21.com

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is turning into bible class....can we please have more from the fairies!

Pete H

AKA The valley vegan.

> interpretation

>the bible is full of contradictions...

>in genesis it sez " all the plants and nuts will be as your meat " (i'm

>paraphrasing.), and a few other places veggieness is definately touted(its a

>very essene thought)..

>its in places like after the flood that god allows noah to eat animals.....

>

>

>In a message dated 5/5/03 12:07:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

>janewwt writes:

>

> I'm not a Christian so maybe I'm missing the point. But the

> argument that I get from Christians supporting meat eating is that the

> big-man upstairs put animals on the earth for humans use (inc eating). Is

> there a passage in the bible that explicitly states this, or, is it down to

> subjective interpretation? Is it that this passage only refers to seeds

> because 'he' hadn't got around to creating other animals yet? Sorry for

> asking possibly v. naive questions, but I want to be fully prepared for my

> next 'lively debate' with my brother who happens to be a Christian

> meat-eater (interesting how siblings can be so different).

> I'll certainly look at the web-site you suggested,

>

>

 

Peter H

 

--------------------

talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at

http://www.talk21.com

[Guest guest]

I may be the only one who doesn't know, but how can a

tree be completely underground? I would assume there

would be not much left of it?

Sarah

 

 

 

--- simonpjones <simonpjones wrote:

>

> -

> " Danielle Kichler " <veggietart

>

> Tuesday, May 06, 2003 1:25 AM

> Re: Would you? Could you?

> Should you?

>

> There is science which proves that the millions of

> years theories can't be

> all that correct. For instants bottles and other

> human made artefacts have

> been found which have solid rock formed around them.

> And trees have been

> found up-right under the ground, when it's supposed

> to take millions of

> years for the ground layers to form, I'm no expert

> but have seen photo taken

> by archaeologist Professor Walter Keith at a

> public talk he was giving in

> London a while back.Don't forget the Mammoth was an

> elephant that lived in

> the colder parts of the world,hence the hair.

>

> Simon

> > The humans and the dinosaurs never coexisted.

> Scientific research has

> shown

> > that dinosaurs died out millions of years before

> the first human set food

> on

> > the ground.

> >

> > Danielle

> >

> >

> >

> > " You can no more win a war than you can win an

> earthquake " --Jeanette

> Rankin

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ----Original Message Follows----

> > " simonpjones " <simonpjones

> >

> >

> > Re: Would you? Could you?

> Should you?

> > Mon, 5 May 2003 14:54:04 +0100

> >

> >

> > -

> > " Danielle Kichler " <veggietart

> >

> > Monday, May 05, 2003 12:51 PM

> > Re: Would you? Could you?

> Should you?

> >

> >

> > > From my limited knowledge of creationism (which

> totally ignores the

> > > existence of dinosaurs,>

> >

> > I can't see how dinosaurs are ignored. Are they

> not part of the " every

> > creature that moves along the ground " that are

> mentioned on the fifth and

> > sixth day.Crocodiles and kangaroos are not

> mentioned either.

> > Not forgetting, it's reckoned that only about 10%

> of known creatures exist

> > today.>

> > .

> > > The argument meat-eating x-tians use is " god

> gave humans dominion over

> > the

> > > animals, " although I have no idea where that

> appears. I can only guess

> > that

> > > someone misinterpreted that as " domination, "

> based on the way we treat

> > them.>

> >

> > Bible Quote. Genesis 1:28 " God blessed them and

> said to them, " Be fruitful

> > and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue

> it. Rule over the fish

> of

> > the sea and the birds of the air and over every

> living creature that

> moves

> > on the ground. "

> > 29-Then God said " I give you every seed- bearing

> plant on the face of the

> > whole earth and every tree that has seed in it.

> They will be yours for

> > food.30- And to all the beasts of the earth and

> all the birds of the air

> and

> > all the creatures that move on the ground -

> everything that moves on the

> > ground - I give every green plant for food. " and

> it was so.

> >

> > I can't see how anyone can say it's saying

> anything other then we and

> > animals should be eating plant type foods.

> >

> >

> > Some Bibles use the word dominion some rule etc,

> > > However, you could certainly argue that since

> we are the only

> creatures

> > > given free will, we can decide if we will be

> stewards or pillagers of

> the

> > > earth. We can use our dominion for good or for

> evil. The modern food

> > > animal industries use their powers for evil, to

> cause great harm to

> other

> > > creatures.

> > >

> > > Danielle

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an

> earthquake " --Jeanette

> > Rankin

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ----Original Message Follows----

> > > <janewwt

> > >

> > >

> > > Re: Would you? Could you?

> Should you?

> > > Mon, 5 May 2003 08:01:17 +0100

> > >

> > > Amylia,

> > > I'm not a Christian so maybe I'm

> missing the point. But

> the

> > > argument that I get from Christians supporting

> meat eating is that the

> > > big-man upstairs put animals on the earth for

> humans use (inc eating).

> Is

> > > there a passage in the bible that explicitly

> states this, or, is it

> down

> > to

> > > subjective interpretation? Is it that this

> passage only refers to seeds

> > > because 'he' hadn't got around to creating

> other animals yet? Sorry for

> > > asking possibly v. naive questions, but I want

> to be fully prepared for

> > my

> > > next 'lively debate' with my brother who

> happens to be a Christian

> > > meat-eater (interesting how siblings can be so

> different).

> > > I'll certainly look at the web-site you

> suggested,

> > >

> > > Many thanks

> > >

> > > ;-) Jani

> > > -

> > > Amylia F

> > >

> > > Sunday, May 04, 2003 6:03 PM

> > > Re: Would you? Could

> you?

> > >

> > >

> > > Jani,

> > >

> > > Without getting too religious on you,

> I guess I just keep

> > thinking

> > > of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. I know

> religion is seen as a

> > > philosophy itself, but in the Bible Genesis

> 1:29-30 God tells Adam and

> > Eve

> > > that He has given them all the seed-bearing

> plants, and fruit trees for

> > > food. And the birds and animals get all the

> grass and plants for their

> > > food.---Like I said, I'm NOT trying to preach,

> just wanted you to know

> > where

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

http://search.

[Guest guest]

-

" Sarah Oelke " <osarah741

 

Tuesday, May 06, 2003 8:18 PM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

 

The trees hadn't grow underground...it wound seem that some sort of massive

wind storm of some sort covered the trees...if that happened....that would

rule out layers of ground settling over millions of years.

 

Simon

 

 

> I may be the only one who doesn't know, but how can a

> tree be completely underground? I would assume there

> would be not much left of it?

> Sarah

>

>

>

> --- simonpjones <simonpjones wrote:

> >

> > -

> > " Danielle Kichler " <veggietart

> >

> > Tuesday, May 06, 2003 1:25 AM

> > Re: Would you? Could you?

> > Should you?

> >

> > There is science which proves that the millions of

> > years theories can't be

> > all that correct. For instants bottles and other

> > human made artefacts have

> > been found which have solid rock formed around them.

> > And trees have been

> > found up-right under the ground, when it's supposed

> > to take millions of

> > years for the ground layers to form, I'm no expert

> > but have seen photo taken

> > by archaeologist Professor Walter Keith at a

> > public talk he was giving in

> > London a while back.Don't forget the Mammoth was an

> > elephant that lived in

> > the colder parts of the world,hence the hair.

> >

> > Simon

> > > The humans and the dinosaurs never coexisted.

> > Scientific research has

> > shown

> > > that dinosaurs died out millions of years before

> > the first human set food

> > on

> > > the ground.

> > >

> > > Danielle

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an

> > earthquake " --Jeanette

> > Rankin

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ----Original Message Follows----

> > > " simonpjones " <simonpjones

> > >

> > >

> > > Re: Would you? Could you?

> > Should you?

> > > Mon, 5 May 2003 14:54:04 +0100

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > " Danielle Kichler " <veggietart

> > >

> > > Monday, May 05, 2003 12:51 PM

> > > Re: Would you? Could you?

> > Should you?

> > >

> > >

> > > > From my limited knowledge of creationism (which

> > totally ignores the

> > > > existence of dinosaurs,>

> > >

> > > I can't see how dinosaurs are ignored. Are they

> > not part of the " every

> > > creature that moves along the ground " that are

> > mentioned on the fifth and

> > > sixth day.Crocodiles and kangaroos are not

> > mentioned either.

> > > Not forgetting, it's reckoned that only about 10%

> > of known creatures exist

> > > today.>

> > > .

> > > > The argument meat-eating x-tians use is " god

> > gave humans dominion over

> > > the

> > > > animals, " although I have no idea where that

> > appears. I can only guess

> > > that

> > > > someone misinterpreted that as " domination, "

> > based on the way we treat

> > > them.>

> > >

> > > Bible Quote. Genesis 1:28 " God blessed them and

> > said to them, " Be fruitful

> > > and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue

> > it. Rule over the fish

> > of

> > > the sea and the birds of the air and over every

> > living creature that

> > moves

> > > on the ground. "

> > > 29-Then God said " I give you every seed- bearing

> > plant on the face of the

> > > whole earth and every tree that has seed in it.

> > They will be yours for

> > > food.30- And to all the beasts of the earth and

> > all the birds of the air

> > and

> > > all the creatures that move on the ground -

> > everything that moves on the

> > > ground - I give every green plant for food. " and

> > it was so.

> > >

> > > I can't see how anyone can say it's saying

> > anything other then we and

> > > animals should be eating plant type foods.

> > >

> > >

> > > Some Bibles use the word dominion some rule etc,

> > > > However, you could certainly argue that since

> > we are the only

> > creatures

> > > > given free will, we can decide if we will be

> > stewards or pillagers of

> > the

> > > > earth. We can use our dominion for good or for

> > evil. The modern food

> > > > animal industries use their powers for evil, to

> > cause great harm to

> > other

> > > > creatures.

> > > >

> > > > Danielle

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an

> > earthquake " --Jeanette

> > > Rankin

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ----Original Message Follows----

> > > > <janewwt

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Re: Would you? Could you?

> > Should you?

> > > > Mon, 5 May 2003 08:01:17 +0100

> > > >

> > > > Amylia,

> > > > I'm not a Christian so maybe I'm

> > missing the point. But

> > the

> > > > argument that I get from Christians supporting

> > meat eating is that the

> > > > big-man upstairs put animals on the earth for

> > humans use (inc eating).

> > Is

> > > > there a passage in the bible that explicitly

> > states this, or, is it

> > down

> > > to

> > > > subjective interpretation? Is it that this

> > passage only refers to seeds

> > > > because 'he' hadn't got around to creating

> > other animals yet? Sorry for

> > > > asking possibly v. naive questions, but I want

> > to be fully prepared for

> > > my

> > > > next 'lively debate' with my brother who

> > happens to be a Christian

> > > > meat-eater (interesting how siblings can be so

> > different).

> > > > I'll certainly look at the web-site you

> > suggested,

> > > >

> > > > Many thanks

> > > >

> > > > ;-) Jani

> > > > -

> > > > Amylia F

> > > >

> > > > Sunday, May 04, 2003 6:03 PM

> > > > Re: Would you? Could

> > you?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Jani,

> > > >

> > > > Without getting too religious on you,

> > I guess I just keep

> > > thinking

> > > > of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. I know

> > religion is seen as a

> > > > philosophy itself, but in the Bible Genesis

> > 1:29-30 God tells Adam and

> > > Eve

> > > > that He has given them all the seed-bearing

> > plants, and fruit trees for

> > > > food. And the birds and animals get all the

> > grass and plants for their

> > > > food.---Like I said, I'm NOT trying to preach,

> > just wanted you to know

> > > where

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

> The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

> http://search.

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/6/03 5:45:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, vegecentric writes:

 

Let's be honest, the bible is just a load of re-re-hashed old crap outdated by about 2,000 years. Would you honestly live your life by the primitive musings of ancient middle east tribes? I like to believe civilisation has moved beyond that.

 

 

be easy on how you judge other's religions and beliefs...

besides, civilization hasn't really progressed much anyways, we still kill each other at the drop of a hat, and destroy EVERYTHING around us whenever we seem to want...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/6/03 1:29:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, simonpjones writes:

 

The trees hadn't grow underground...it wound seem that some sort of massive

wind storm of some sort covered the trees...if that happened....that would

rule out layers of ground settling over millions of years.

 

dust storms, floods and the like bury whole trees all the time..you can go find entire petrifyed forests...

i'm lost dear simon, to wot the point is?

erosion and earth's movements don't happen on a set timetable...sudden storms, winds, volcanoes, earthquakes, mass earth movements are happening all the time...erosion and sediment layering doesn't happen all over the earth at a ceratin rate all the time...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/6/03 12:21:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, osarah741 writes:

 

 

I may be the only one who doesn't know, but how can a

tree be completely underground? I would assume there

would be not much left of it?

Sarah

 

petrified trees...entire forests have been preserved after bein buried by sands, floods, volcanoes....

over time, the wood is embedded with minerals and eventually the wood is gone and all is left is a rockholding the shape of a tree..like dinosaur bones...

[Guest guest]

Let's be honest, the bible is just a load of re-re-hashed old crap outdated by about 2,000 years. Would you honestly live your life by the primitive musings of ancient middle east tribes? I like to believe civilisation has moved beyond that.

 

Tom

 

-

Catherine Harris

Monday, May 05, 2003 2:26 PM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

 

 

hi all,

what stories/gospels went into the new testament was decided by a council of bishops in rome in circa 500 ad.........lots of more radical eg less mysogynistic stuff was left out.......it all a matter of opinion, and like facts/stories anywhere, can be bent to show any point of view you need.....

catherine

 

>"simonpjones"

> >

>Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? >Mon, 5 May 2003 20:24:28 +0100 > > > - > EBbrewpunx > > Monday, May 05, 2003 4:10 PM > Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? > > > interpretation > the bible is full of contradictions... > in genesis it sez "all the plants and nuts will be as your meat"(i'm paraphrasing.), and a few other places veggieness is definately touted(its a very essene thought)..> > > The word 'meat' in Hebrew means 'food'..... > > Bibles are made up of sixty six books over a long period of time..I'm not convinced that the powers that be( leader etc ) havn't changed some of the meanings and stories to suit themselves. > But l do believe Genesis 1;28...the sixth day paragragh... is the key to a truly civilized world. > > S > > its in places like after the flood that god allows noah to eat animals..... > > > In a message dated 5/5/03 12:07:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, janewwt writes: > > > I'm not a Christian so maybe I'm missing the point. But the argument that I get from Christians supporting meat eating is that the big-man upstairs put animals on the earth for humans use (inc eating). Is there a passage in the bible that explicitly states this, or, is it down to subjective interpretation? Is it that this passage only refers to seeds because 'he' hadn't got around to creating other animals yet? Sorry for asking possibly v. naive questions, but I want to be fully prepared for my next 'lively debate' with my brother who happens to be a Christian meat-eater (interesting how siblings can be so different). > I'll certainly look at the web-site you suggested, > > > > >

[Guest guest]

But she just might have her own cult, Tele-vangelist show and 98 Rolls Royces like the Baghwan Sri Rajneesh (of orange people fame).

 

Tom

 

-

Catherine Harris

Monday, May 05, 2003 5:39 PM

Re: Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

 

 

if there were such an event as the second return of the messiah, she would be poor, speaking of god, and would be sectioned within the week to a mental hospital as being in a paranoid delusional state.............

which of course is just all a matter of opinion, as it always is.........

catherine

 

 

>"Danielle Kichler"

> > >Re: Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? >Mon, 05 May 2003 20:18:41 -0400 > >When we talk to god, we're praying, but when god talks to us, we're >schizophrenic. > >The Mad Vegan Agnostic. > > > >"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"--Jeanette Rankin > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- >"Vegecentric"

> >

>Re: Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? >Mon, 5 May 2003 22:17:02 -0700 > >Conversations with God... conjures up images of a drooling man in a >straight-jacket gibbering to himself... > >(Born Again Atheist) > - > Marit > > Monday, May 05, 2003 4:31 AM > Re: Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? > > > If you really want to know what God has to say about that then you should >read Converstation with God books by Neale Donald Walsch. They do talk about >that issue too. > - > quercusrobur2002 > > Monday, May 05, 2003 2:12 PM > Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? > > > , then christians should at least aspire to the plant foods and i't > shouldn't mean giving up humous,chocolate, soya ice-cream etc as > these come from plant type foods. > > > > What's god got to say about food miles, overpackaging and > processing, labour exploitation, cash crops, genetically modified > crops and monocultural growing systems leading to soil erosion and > nitrate build ups in the ground water as entailed in the commercial > mass production of cocoa, soya and chick peas??? > > > > To send an email to - > >

[Guest guest]

 

-

EBbrewpunx

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 3:18 AM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

In a message dated 5/6/03 1:29:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, simonpjones writes:

The trees hadn't grow underground...it wound seem that some sort of massivewind storm of some sort covered the trees...if that happened....that wouldrule out layers of ground settling over millions of years.

dust storms, floods and the like bury whole trees all the time..you can go find entire petrifyed forests...i'm lost dear simon, to wot the point is? erosion and earth's movements don't happen on a set timetable...sudden storms, winds, volcanoes, earthquakes, mass earth movements are happening all the time...erosion and sediment layering doesn't happen all over the earth at a ceratin rate all the time...

 

Thus, ageing the earth as millions and millions of years old through looking at the layers of soil can only be belief also. To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/7/03 1:55:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, simonpjones writes:

 

Thus, ageing the earth as millions and millions of years old through looking at the layers of soil can only be belief also

 

 

ah..but, it can be theorized, tested, worked on,

people can make hypothesis', collect data, learn and the like, stuff that you don't get when you just make a "leap of faith"

[Guest guest]

The Genesis beginning is the arguement I would use against so-called christians, though The Seventh day adventist are the only Christian group I know of that encourage a veggie diet.

 

-

Vegecentric

Thursday, May 08, 2003 4:40 AM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

Agreed, Genesis does describe a vegan nirvana, of sorts. Problem is, as has been said, the bible is open to all sorts of interpretations and justifications.

 

Tom

 

-

simonpjones

Tuesday, May 06, 2003 6:23 AM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

 

 

-

Vegecentric

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 6:44 AM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

The interesting part about the bible is at the start of the bible the writer says...that humans and animals should eat plant-type foods...meaning animals shouldn't eat animals..Can u top that...as a civilized way to live?

 

S

 

Let's be honest, the bible is just a load of re-re-hashed old crap outdated by about 2,000 years. Would you honestly live your life by the primitive musings of ancient middle east tribes? I like to believe civilisation has moved beyond that.

 

Tom

 

-

Catherine Harris

Monday, May 05, 2003 2:26 PM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

 

 

hi all,

what stories/gospels went into the new testament was decided by a council of bishops in rome in circa 500 ad.........lots of more radical eg less mysogynistic stuff was left out.......it all a matter of opinion, and like facts/stories anywhere, can be bent to show any point of view you need.....

catherine

 

>"simonpjones"

> >

>Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? >Mon, 5 May 2003 20:24:28 +0100 > > > - > EBbrewpunx > > Monday, May 05, 2003 4:10 PM > Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? > > > interpretation > the bible is full of contradictions... > in genesis it sez "all the plants and nuts will be as your meat"(i'm paraphrasing.), and a few other places veggieness is definately touted(its a very essene thought)..> > > The word 'meat' in Hebrew means 'food'..... > > Bibles are made up of sixty six books over a long period of time..I'm not convinced that the powers that be( leader etc ) havn't changed some of the meanings and stories to suit themselves. > But l do believe Genesis 1;28...the sixth day paragragh... is the key to a truly civilized world. > > S > > its in places like after the flood that god allows noah to eat animals..... > > > In a message dated 5/5/03 12:07:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, janewwt writes: > > > I'm not a Christian so maybe I'm missing the point. But the argument that I get from Christians supporting meat eating is that the big-man upstairs put animals on the earth for humans use (inc eating). Is there a passage in the bible that explicitly states this, or, is it down to subjective interpretation? Is it that this passage only refers to seeds because 'he' hadn't got around to creating other animals yet? Sorry for asking possibly v. naive questions, but I want to be fully prepared for my next 'lively debate' with my brother who happens to be a Christian meat-eater (interesting how siblings can be so different). > I'll certainly look at the web-site you suggested, > > > > >

[Guest guest]

 

-

EBbrewpunx

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 3:16 PM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

In a message dated 5/7/03 1:55:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, simonpjones writes:

Thus, ageing the earth as millions and millions of years old through looking at the layers of soil can only be belief also

ah..but, it can be theorized, tested, worked on, people can make hypothesis', collect data, learn and the like, stuff that you don't get when you just make a "leap of faith" >

 

I'm all for the testing etc, I would like to know the truth by conclusive evidences, rather than belief.

At this time I am not convinced with the millions of years theories.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Agreed, Genesis does describe a vegan nirvana, of sorts. Problem is, as has been said, the bible is open to all sorts of interpretations and justifications.

 

Tom

 

-

simonpjones

Tuesday, May 06, 2003 6:23 AM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

 

 

-

Vegecentric

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 6:44 AM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

The interesting part about the bible is at the start of the bible the writer says...that humans and animals should eat plant-type foods...meaning animals shouldn't eat animals..Can u top that...as a civilized way to live?

 

S

 

Let's be honest, the bible is just a load of re-re-hashed old crap outdated by about 2,000 years. Would you honestly live your life by the primitive musings of ancient middle east tribes? I like to believe civilisation has moved beyond that.

 

Tom

 

-

Catherine Harris

Monday, May 05, 2003 2:26 PM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

 

 

hi all,

what stories/gospels went into the new testament was decided by a council of bishops in rome in circa 500 ad.........lots of more radical eg less mysogynistic stuff was left out.......it all a matter of opinion, and like facts/stories anywhere, can be bent to show any point of view you need.....

catherine

 

>"simonpjones"

> >

>Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? >Mon, 5 May 2003 20:24:28 +0100 > > > - > EBbrewpunx > > Monday, May 05, 2003 4:10 PM > Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? > > > interpretation > the bible is full of contradictions... > in genesis it sez "all the plants and nuts will be as your meat"(i'm paraphrasing.), and a few other places veggieness is definately touted(its a very essene thought)..> > > The word 'meat' in Hebrew means 'food'..... > > Bibles are made up of sixty six books over a long period of time..I'm not convinced that the powers that be( leader etc ) havn't changed some of the meanings and stories to suit themselves. > But l do believe Genesis 1;28...the sixth day paragragh... is the key to a truly civilized world. > > S > > its in places like after the flood that god allows noah to eat animals..... > > > In a message dated 5/5/03 12:07:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, janewwt writes: > > > I'm not a Christian so maybe I'm missing the point. But the argument that I get from Christians supporting meat eating is that the big-man upstairs put animals on the earth for humans use (inc eating). Is there a passage in the bible that explicitly states this, or, is it down to subjective interpretation? Is it that this passage only refers to seeds because 'he' hadn't got around to creating other animals yet? Sorry for asking possibly v. naive questions, but I want to be fully prepared for my next 'lively debate' with my brother who happens to be a Christian meat-eater (interesting how siblings can be so different). > I'll certainly look at the web-site you suggested, > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I agree we have a long way to go on the civilisation front, but I don't believe culture or religious beliefs are ever an excuse for mistreatment of animals, gays, women, or anyone. A free, open, secular, democratic society where rights and liberties are protected is the only way to go.

 

Tom

 

-

EBbrewpunx

Tuesday, May 06, 2003 5:38 PM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

In a message dated 5/6/03 5:45:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, vegecentric writes:

Let's be honest, the bible is just a load of re-re-hashed old crap outdated by about 2,000 years. Would you honestly live your life by the primitive musings of ancient middle east tribes? I like to believe civilisation has moved beyond that.be easy on how you judge other's religions and beliefs...besides, civilization hasn't really progressed much anyways, we still kill each other at the drop of a hat, and destroy EVERYTHING around us whenever we seem to want...To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

The best thing about SDA's (Seventh Day Adventists) here in Oz are the Sanitarium Health Food company, run by them. When I and 2 of my brothers went vegan in 1983, we knew very little, and Sanitarium Nut Meat and other vegan meat analogues (we were country boys, raised on typical Aussie meat & 3 veg diet) were our saviours. I have a great vegan lasagne recipe, using Nut Meat (not as rank as it sounds), but most of you guys would have to substitute some alternative...

 

Tom

 

-

simonpjones

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 4:08 AM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

The Genesis beginning is the arguement I would use against so-called christians, though The Seventh day adventist are the only Christian group I know of that encourage a veggie diet.

 

-

Vegecentric

Thursday, May 08, 2003 4:40 AM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

Agreed, Genesis does describe a vegan nirvana, of sorts. Problem is, as has been said, the bible is open to all sorts of interpretations and justifications.

 

Tom

 

-

simonpjones

Tuesday, May 06, 2003 6:23 AM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

 

 

-

Vegecentric

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 6:44 AM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

The interesting part about the bible is at the start of the bible the writer says...that humans and animals should eat plant-type foods...meaning animals shouldn't eat animals..Can u top that...as a civilized way to live?

 

S

 

Let's be honest, the bible is just a load of re-re-hashed old crap outdated by about 2,000 years. Would you honestly live your life by the primitive musings of ancient middle east tribes? I like to believe civilisation has moved beyond that.

 

Tom

 

-

Catherine Harris

Monday, May 05, 2003 2:26 PM

Re: Would you? Could you? Should you?

 

 

 

hi all,

what stories/gospels went into the new testament was decided by a council of bishops in rome in circa 500 ad.........lots of more radical eg less mysogynistic stuff was left out.......it all a matter of opinion, and like facts/stories anywhere, can be bent to show any point of view you need.....

catherine

 

>"simonpjones"

> >

>Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? >Mon, 5 May 2003 20:24:28 +0100 > > > - > EBbrewpunx > > Monday, May 05, 2003 4:10 PM > Re: Would you? Could you? Should you? > > > interpretation > the bible is full of contradictions... > in genesis it sez "all the plants and nuts will be as your meat"(i'm paraphrasing.), and a few other places veggieness is definately touted(its a very essene thought)..> > > The word 'meat' in Hebrew means 'food'..... > > Bibles are made up of sixty six books over a long period of time..I'm not convinced that the powers that be( leader etc ) havn't changed some of the meanings and stories to suit themselves. > But l do believe Genesis 1;28...the sixth day paragragh... is the key to a truly civilized world. > > S > > its in places like after the flood that god allows noah to eat animals..... > > > In a message dated 5/5/03 12:07:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, janewwt writes: > > > I'm not a Christian so maybe I'm missing the point. But the argument that I get from Christians supporting meat eating is that the big-man upstairs put animals on the earth for humans use (inc eating). Is there a passage in the bible that explicitly states this, or, is it down to subjective interpretation? Is it that this passage only refers to seeds because 'he' hadn't got around to creating other animals yet? Sorry for asking possibly v. naive questions, but I want to be fully prepared for my next 'lively debate' with my brother who happens to be a Christian meat-eater (interesting how siblings can be so different). > I'll certainly look at the web-site you suggested, > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Amylia

 

> I'm not a Christian so maybe I'm missing the point. But the argument that I get from Christians supporting meat eating is that the big-man

> upstairs put animals on the earth for humans use (inc eating). Is there a passage in the bible that explicitly states this, or, is it down to

> subjective interpretation?

 

The point is, any scripture is down to subjective interpretation. I'm sure that if I really wanted to, I could come up with a descent theological argument that everyone with ten fingers and ten toes is an insult to God / Allah / whatever, and should be stoned to death - and that goes for any scripture, not just the Bible!

 

BB

Peter

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Catherine

 

> what stories/gospels went into the new testament was decided by a council of bishops in rome in circa 500 ad.........

 

It was largely decided by Bishop Irenaeus (sp?) in the 3rd century - with a few "tweaks" later on :-)

 

BB

Peter

 

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