Treating Symptoms/Supplementing Diet

[Guest guest]

Speaking from personal experience again, I've been on the 8-10-10 diet

for 6 months...I work 6 days a week, 8-10 hours a day, on my feet in

sales. I've never had a problem taking my food to work for the day,

nor getting to a bathroom when I need to. I do NOT spend all day in

the bathroom, that's for sure.

 

It seems to me, Belinda, you are not ready to try a new lifestyle. My

advise would be, to drop the idea till you are ready.

 

As far as the B-12 and iron goes, I'll check back with you when I get

a few years under my belt. However I do not expect it to be a problem

as I have only experienced numerous benefits so far. One benefit

being quitting B-12 shots and iron.

 

Be Well, Be Happy! :-)

Janie

 

 

rawfood , " Belinda " <MistyBlueTN wrote:

>

> No I am not finding reasons to stay away from health. I just don't

> see, (as of yet) that the way you speak of is the way to health. Not

> long term anyway.

>

> I know you can fill up on fruit. I also know that in a short time

> you need to eat again.

>

> All work places give you time for lunch and usually a short 10 minute

> break before and after lunch.

>

> For those that work out on construction sites, traveling, work in

> factories, etc. They do not have access to bathrooms at all times of

> the day. Nor time for eating every few hours. Many do not have a

> place to keep fresh fruits and it would take quite a cooler to hold

> enough for a long day of work in hot weather.

>

> Alot of assembly line type work, you get 30 minutes to eat and not

> another break for bathrooms or whatever for couple of hours or more.

>

> And for some that work, in a place of retail, bank, convenience

> store, grocery or whatever. You stay put until you run out of

> customers or someone shows up to relieve you. You don't always have

> the opportunity to eat whenever or potty whenever.

>

> Look I am all about living healthy, but I see some flaw in this all

> vegan raw stuff.

> I am all for eating raw, and I am for eating a lot of it. But, I do

> not believe it to be a healthy diet unless supplemented with the

> things that are missing.

>

> I have read too much of damage to the health of vegans (long term)

> not supplementing. And some of them were children.

>

> Now short term, to get a jump start on a healthy diet, I am all for

> it. But long term, I don't agree that it is as healthy as some of

> you believe that it is.

>

> Alot of vegan/vegetarian websites even advise supplimentation of B12

> as well as a few others.

>

> But for those that are convinced that fruits and leafy greens and a

> very few nuts, it a healthy diet for a person (long term). Try it or

> keep it up. Your body will let you know sooner or later if you were

> right.

>

>

> So, how long have you been totally vegan without any supplements?

>

> Belinda

>

>

>

>

>

> > Hi Belinda,

> >

> > I sense you are imagining reasons to stay away from better health.

> > Did you know that your body can eliminate a good portion of the

> colon

> > before the bladder has had a chance to unload? The time at the pot

> is

> > not as burdensome as you portray. There is no need for potty-side

> > books. Really.

> >

> > And, there's no need to graze all day long. You can fill up pretty

> > fast with high water content foods (fruits) and a few bananas. The

> > process is much faster than cooking and cleaning up the mess

> > afterwards. Nature has literally produced the FASTEST food

> available.

> > You peel the banana, you eat the banana, you peel the banana, you

> eat

> > the banana. Easy.

> >

> > I've never been in a work environment where time wasn't made to

> eat.

> > If I did find myself in such a predicament, I'd surely find a way

> out

> > of it.

> >

> > I've heard of huge sports fans who go to the big stadiums and rather

> > than wait in line for the bathroom and miss any action, use an

> > apparatus attached to their privates that would allow the urine to

> go

> > to a bag strapped to their leg. And, there are astronauts running

> > about with diapers on. There ARE options, I suppose! ;-)

> >

> > Janet

> >

> > rawfood , " Belinda " <MistyBlueTN@> wrote:

> >

> > Gosh, that's awful. No wonder I see all the adds about people

> haveing

> > packed feces in their body.

> > Even my very uneducated grandparents knew you should have a bm more

> > often than that. (which is why they kept the castor oil handy.

> Yuk)

> >

> > Ok, some people have jobs and activities where they do not have a

> > bathroom handy for this much " pottying " . Nor are they able to eat

> all

> > day long.

> >

> > I am not even always in places where the bathroom might be handy.

> > How inconvenient. I would feel like a cow. Just eating and pooping

> > all day long. sigh Belinda Health means once per meal ... within

> an

> > hour or less following that meal.

> > And yes, the doctors today still routinely tell patients that once

> or

> > twice a week is fine, I have such conversations with people with

> some

> > frequency.

> > Of COURSE they are sick!!!

> >

> > Elchanan _____ rawfood

> > [rawfood ] On Behalf Of Belinda Sent:

> Saturday,

> > June 30, 2007 6:51 AM rawfood [Raw

> Food]

> > Re: Treating Symptoms/Supplementing Diet Wow, I have never heard a

> > doctor say this or know anyone else that has. But, I have not had a

> > conversation with a doctor like this in many years.

> >

> > At one time the belief was bowel movements once a day. That was

> what

> > I was taught.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

-

Belinda

>All work places give you time for lunch and usually a short 10 minute

break before and after lunch.

 

What about your workplace? You don't need a solution for every other person

on the planet, just you )

 

 

>Look I am all about living healthy, but I see some flaw in this all

vegan raw stuff.

I am all for eating raw, and I am for eating a lot of it. But, I do

not believe it to be a healthy diet unless supplemented with the

things that are missing.

I have read too much of damage to the health of vegans (long term)

not supplementing. And some of them were children.

 

The things we're " told are missing " are either present only in people who

have been used for studies, people who eat SAD or similar, or not essential,

but the whatever industry wants to sell their product so they fund a study

showing that their product contains vitamin X, whether or not we need it.

The people studied had vitamin X in their system because they eat that

product, so they assume they need it. As for the damage to children, I've

read the reports too, though never met a vegan child, so can't say from

personal experience. I have, however, met plenty of children who eat " real "

food, with all the nutrients, and they do show damage. They're obese, or

have " exzema " , or are lethargic, or irritable, or all of the above.

 

As far as damaged health, I honestly don't think mine can get much worse,

and I've HAD all the " essential " nutrients. I had the B shots, and

supplements, and not one of them helped one bit. My son has lost weight, had

a bowel infection, and horrible digestion problems every time he's tried to

eat meat, and all those other " things we need " . He's also been far more

emotionally volitile (insane tantrums over nothing, grizzling all day), and

has had trouble sleeping soundly. The only time he's been truly healthy has

been before he started solids, and when he's been on fruit only.

 

I've seen huge health benefits in the short times I've eaten 100% raw, even

for just a day. I hadn't had meat in about 3 or 4 weeks, until last weekend,

when I had a small, very lean lamb steak, and felt horrible for 2 days

afterwards. I've always loved eating meat, but now I'm not so sure. I don't

know all there is to know about the 80-10-10 diet, far from it, but I'm

going to give it a decent try. The big picture makes perfect sense to me,

scientifically, so the smaller things, like whether I get enough of a single

nutrient, I'm willing to trust to the design of things. I've tested anemic

when I've been eating heaps of red meat, and I've had perfect iron levels

when I haven't been eating much of anything, let alone real meat - this

leads me to believe that iron levels have very little to do with meat

intake.

 

Caron

[Guest guest]

Belinda:

You do not have to poop all day!!!

You do need to urinate @every two hours or so, but, thank Heaven,

we are able to control our poop responses. Pooping two times a

day is okay, too.

 

If you have a modern life, and you cannot just choose to stop at

the nearest bush, you *control*. You stop at the nearest toilet

that works for you.

(some people, like me, do not like to poop away from home, but, if you

can do that-- or if you JUST HAVE TO-- you can generally hold it until

you can get to the toilet of your choice or convenience)

 

People who poop six times a day are probably either unemployed, or

else, self employed. They have a bathroom nearby when they get they

urge.

 

This all harks back to toilet-training.

We used to poop whenever, when Mommy was cleaning our diapers.

Then we got socialized, as is necessary in this modern world.

We learned not to poop in our pants.

Over time, in school, we learned to " hold it " .

This is fortunate in our civilized world.

If you are teaching someone, or, even better, a group of people,

something really important, for example, you cannot simply run to the

bathroom because your intestines have given you a message (gas? a

twinge? full-on peristalsis?)

 

Short of diarrhea, you should not have to cut short what you are doing

to run to poop. You are a grown-up. You choose your poop times. You

want to poop? What is going on? Is it important for you to be there

and do that? Then you hold it. You have been toilet-trained.

 

I love when die-hard back to nature " I want to be a monkey " people

suggest that we should hang out all day pooping. Such people do not

live in the same real world that many of us do live in.

 

Most such people are also lying to you if they say that they poop

whenever the urge arises, be it 6, 7, 18 times a day. Or else, they

were poorly potty-trained and have major issues there (this is a

psychological problem -- we all know that we do not have to even pass

gas--- barring accidents)

 

Blessings

Margaret

 

rawfood , " Belinda " <MistyBlueTN wrote:

>

> Gosh, that's awful. No wonder I see all the adds about people

> haveing packed feces in their body.

> Even my very uneducated grandparents knew you should have a bm more

> often than that. (which is why they kept the castor oil handy. Yuk)

>

> Ok, some people have jobs and activities where they do not have a

> bathroom handy for this much " pottying " . Nor are they able to eat

> all day long.

>

> I am not even always in places where the bathroom might be handy.

> How inconvenient. I would feel like a cow. Just eating and pooping

> all day long. sigh

>

>

> Belinda

>

>

> > Health means once per meal ... within an hour or less following

> that meal.

> > And yes, the doctors today still routinely tell patients that once

> or twice

> > a week is fine, I have such conversations with people with some

> frequency.

> > Of COURSE they are sick!!!

> >

> > Elchanan

> > _____

> >

> > rawfood [rawfood ] On

> Behalf Of

> > Belinda

> > Saturday, June 30, 2007 6:51 AM

> > rawfood

> > [Raw Food] Re: Treating Symptoms/Supplementing Diet

> >

> >

> > Wow, I have never heard a doctor say this or know anyone else that

> > has. But, I have not had a conversation with a doctor like this in

> > many years.

> >

> > At one time the belief was bowel movements once a day. That was

> what

> > I was taught.

> >

> > Belinda

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thank you Margaret. )

Oh, and the urinatine thing, I have been doing that for years.

Especially after giving birth to twins that weighed over 6ibs each.

The body has never been quite the same.)

 

 

Belinda

 

 

 

> Belinda:

> You do not have to poop all day!!!

> You do need to urinate @every two hours or so, but, thank Heaven,

> we are able to control our poop responses. Pooping two times a

> day is okay, too.

>

> If you have a modern life, and you cannot just choose to stop at

> the nearest bush, you *control*. You stop at the nearest toilet

> that works for you.

> (some people, like me, do not like to poop away from home, but, if

you

> can do that-- or if you JUST HAVE TO-- you can generally hold it

until

> you can get to the toilet of your choice or convenience)

>

> People who poop six times a day are probably either unemployed, or

> else, self employed. They have a bathroom nearby when they get they

> urge.

>

> This all harks back to toilet-training.

> We used to poop whenever, when Mommy was cleaning our diapers.

> Then we got socialized, as is necessary in this modern world.

> We learned not to poop in our pants.

> Over time, in school, we learned to " hold it " .

> This is fortunate in our civilized world.

> If you are teaching someone, or, even better, a group of people,

> something really important, for example, you cannot simply run to

the

> bathroom because your intestines have given you a message (gas? a

> twinge? full-on peristalsis?)

>

> Short of diarrhea, you should not have to cut short what you are

doing

> to run to poop. You are a grown-up. You choose your poop times.

You

> want to poop? What is going on? Is it important for you to be

there

> and do that? Then you hold it. You have been toilet-trained.

>

> I love when die-hard back to nature " I want to be a monkey " people

> suggest that we should hang out all day pooping. Such people do not

> live in the same real world that many of us do live in.

>

> Most such people are also lying to you if they say that they poop

> whenever the urge arises, be it 6, 7, 18 times a day. Or else, they

> were poorly potty-trained and have major issues there (this is a

> psychological problem -- we all know that we do not have to even

pass

> gas--- barring accidents)

>

> Blessings

> Margaret

>

> rawfood , " Belinda " <MistyBlueTN@> wrote:

> >

> > Gosh, that's awful. No wonder I see all the adds about people

> > haveing packed feces in their body.

> > Even my very uneducated grandparents knew you should have a bm

more

> > often than that. (which is why they kept the castor oil handy.

Yuk)

> >

> > Ok, some people have jobs and activities where they do not have a

> > bathroom handy for this much " pottying " . Nor are they able to

eat

> > all day long.

> >

> > I am not even always in places where the bathroom might be handy.

> > How inconvenient. I would feel like a cow. Just eating and

pooping

> > all day long. sigh

> >

> >

> > Belinda

> >

> >

> > > Health means once per meal ... within an hour or less following

> > that meal.

> > > And yes, the doctors today still routinely tell patients that

once

> > or twice

> > > a week is fine, I have such conversations with people with some

> > frequency.

> > > Of COURSE they are sick!!!

> > >

> > > Elchanan

> > > _____

> > >

> > > rawfood [rawfood ]

On

> > Behalf Of

> > > Belinda

> > > Saturday, June 30, 2007 6:51 AM

> > > rawfood

> > > [Raw Food] Re: Treating Symptoms/Supplementing Diet

> > >

> > >

> > > Wow, I have never heard a doctor say this or know anyone else

that

> > > has. But, I have not had a conversation with a doctor like this

in

> > > many years.

> > >

> > > At one time the belief was bowel movements once a day. That was

> > what

> > > I was taught.

> > >

> > > Belinda

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I don't know any vegan children either. Nor adults, that I know of.

 

The children and adults that I know that are plagued with all sorts

of maladies, physical and behavioural, eat a lot of things that are

highly processed and full of all sorts of chemicals. There homes are

also full of chemicals. They take all sorts of medications and man

made supplements, etc. Dirnking city water that is full of all sorts

of chemicals. Many have swimming pools that they swim in a lot,

which of course, is full of chemicals. And it goes on and on.

 

I don't believe for on second that their health problems are due to

the fact that they eat meat. Unless it is because they eat too much

of it and the meat is contaminated with chemicals.

Generally people that eat a lot of meat, do not eat much vegetables,

like leafy greens and such. (these people think potatoes and beans

are veggies and salads consist of potaoe or macaroni salad. The

meats are mostly fried, etc) Some, that I know never eats green

leaves. To them, a salad is just all the toppings and the dressing.

 

And kids, they are assaulted with junk, not only at home, but in the

schools. They don't stand a chance. Pediatricians recomend letting

the kids choose what they want to eat. Saying that they will get

what they need out of it. If the parent is worried, just give them

some Flinstone Vitamins.

Parents don't make their kids eat well anymore. I can remember my

parents putting an assortment of veggies on our plates and we had to

eat them. We ate fresh veggies from my dad's garden. Sometimes

while standing in the garden, and mom canned or froze our veggies for

the winter. I hated eating all those veggies at the time, but

appreciated that we grew up as healthy as we did. Also it was very

rare that we ever ate out. Unless it was at my grandmothers

restaraunt. Which was all fresh foods. She went to the farmers

market every morning and baught fresh fruits and veggies to serve to

her customers for the day.

 

When we got old enough to eat what we wanted, we pigged out on junk.

Boy did we feel terrible. It didn't take long to go back to

including lots of veggies in our diet. I would even eat the ones

that I knew to be good for me, even if I didn't like it. My dad

taught me that.

 

I still do that to this day.

 

And just for the record. It has been many, many years that I needed

a book to entertain me while waiting for nature to take it's course

in the bathroom.

 

Even with some meat consumption, I have no problems with the bm's.

It comes and goes daily, like clock work. No bloating, no gas, no

discomfort, no odor. I am in and out in just a few seconds and on

with my day.

 

So you do not have to eat the 80-10-10 way to achieve this.

 

But I will say that I like to eat the 80-10-10 way. It is very

tastey and satisfying for a while.

 

Belinda

 

 

 

>

> -

> Belinda

> >All work places give you time for lunch and usually a short 10

minute

> break before and after lunch.

>

> What about your workplace? You don't need a solution for every

other person

> on the planet, just you )

>

>

> >Look I am all about living healthy, but I see some flaw in this all

> vegan raw stuff.

> I am all for eating raw, and I am for eating a lot of it. But, I do

> not believe it to be a healthy diet unless supplemented with the

> things that are missing.

> I have read too much of damage to the health of vegans (long term)

> not supplementing. And some of them were children.

>

> The things we're " told are missing " are either present only in

people who

> have been used for studies, people who eat SAD or similar, or not

essential,

> but the whatever industry wants to sell their product so they fund

a study

> showing that their product contains vitamin X, whether or not we

need it.

> The people studied had vitamin X in their system because they eat

that

> product, so they assume they need it. As for the damage to

children, I've

> read the reports too, though never met a vegan child, so can't say

from

> personal experience. I have, however, met plenty of children who

eat " real "

> food, with all the nutrients, and they do show damage. They're

obese, or

> have " exzema " , or are lethargic, or irritable, or all of the above.

>

> As far as damaged health, I honestly don't think mine can get much

worse,

> and I've HAD all the " essential " nutrients. I had the B shots, and

> supplements, and not one of them helped one bit. My son has lost

weight, had

> a bowel infection, and horrible digestion problems every time he's

tried to

> eat meat, and all those other " things we need " . He's also been far

more

> emotionally volitile (insane tantrums over nothing, grizzling all

day), and

> has had trouble sleeping soundly. The only time he's been truly

healthy has

> been before he started solids, and when he's been on fruit only.

>

> I've seen huge health benefits in the short times I've eaten 100%

raw, even

> for just a day. I hadn't had meat in about 3 or 4 weeks, until last

weekend,

> when I had a small, very lean lamb steak, and felt horrible for 2

days

> afterwards. I've always loved eating meat, but now I'm not so sure.

I don't

> know all there is to know about the 80-10-10 diet, far from it, but

I'm

> going to give it a decent try. The big picture makes perfect sense

to me,

> scientifically, so the smaller things, like whether I get enough of

a single

> nutrient, I'm willing to trust to the design of things. I've tested

anemic

> when I've been eating heaps of red meat, and I've had perfect iron

levels

> when I haven't been eating much of anything, let alone real meat -

this

> leads me to believe that iron levels have very little to do with

meat

> intake.

>

> Caron

>

[Guest guest]

On Monday 02 July 2007 23:43, Margaret Gamez wrote:

> You are a grown-up.  You choose your poop times.

 

Actually that just is not true.

 

The body chooses the earliest possible moment to eliminate. It is eliminating

TOXINS! The faster they are expelled the better. The longer they stay in the

body the greater the potential harm. We do not choose poop times, it is

simply delaying the inevitable. If making such a choice is possible, a

completely free uninfluenced act, then I would challenge anyone to choose to

not eliminate for two weeks to see how long the choice lasts.

 

>You have been toilet-trained.

Indeed, one of the first intensive socialising/conditioning experiences we

have, done out of ignorance and convenience.

 

>I love when die-hard back to nature " I want to be a monkey " people

>suggest that we should hang out all day pooping.  Such people do not

>live in the same real world that many of us do live in.  

 

Nor do they want to thanks!

 

neal.

[Guest guest]

But food does need to stay in the body long enough for the nutrients

to be absorbed. If expelled to quickly, the nutrients will go with

it.

 

 

Belinda

 

 

 

 

> On Monday 02 July 2007 23:43, Margaret Gamez wrote:

> > You are a grown-up.  You choose your poop times.

>

> Actually that just is not true.

>

> The body chooses the earliest possible moment to eliminate. It is

eliminating

> TOXINS! The faster they are expelled the better. The longer they

stay in the

> body the greater the potential harm. We do not choose poop times,

it is

> simply delaying the inevitable. If making such a choice is

possible, a

> completely free uninfluenced act, then I would challenge anyone to

choose to

> not eliminate for two weeks to see how long the choice lasts.

>

> >You have been toilet-trained.

> Indeed, one of the first intensive socialising/conditioning

experiences we

> have, done out of ignorance and convenience.

>

> >I love when die-hard back to nature " I want to be a monkey " people

> >suggest that we should hang out all day pooping.  Such people do

not

> >live in the same real world that many of us do live in.  

>

> Nor do they want to thanks!

>

> neal.

>

[Guest guest]

-

Belinda

>But food does need to stay in the body long enough for the nutrients

to be absorbed. If expelled to quickly, the nutrients will go with

it.

 

A healthy digestive system will have absorbed all the nutrients before the

food reaches the bowel.

 

Caron

[Guest guest]

-

Belinda

 

>I don't know any vegan children either. Nor adults, that I know of.

 

I'd prefer to see some real-life examples, rather than trusting mainstream

studies that are possibly sponsored by the people selling things that vegans

don't eat. If we're refering to isolated cases, I know of far more " isolated

cases " of non-vegan children being malnourished (as in lacking nutrients,

not underfed).

 

>The children and adults that I know that are plagued with all sorts

of maladies, physical and behavioural, eat a lot of things that are

highly processed and full of all sorts of chemicals. There homes are

also full of chemicals. They take all sorts of medications and man

made supplements, etc. Dirnking city water that is full of all sorts

of chemicals. Many have swimming pools that they swim in a lot,

which of course, is full of chemicals. And it goes on and on.

 

>I don't believe for on second that their health problems are due to

the fact that they eat meat.

 

My son had his first meal of " solids " (pureed cooked veges, homemade) at 8

months, and his first bowel infection shortly after; his first swim in a

public pool was over a month later (and no solids since the first lot). He

started solids at 12 months, and was fine until he started eating cooked

foods, and he started rapidly losing weight. There was no swimming, and

definitely no junk foods, and I never use chemicals around him, because he's

very sensitive to everything, and I like him to have clear skin and no

wheezing. At 16 months, I took him off solids completely, and he started

regaining weight, and the other problems also disappeared. Then he started

back on fruit, and he was fine until the cooked foods started again - all

the advice I got was to just " feed him more food " (food being cooked foods,

including meat). He didn't grow a single millimetre, or put on even a gram,

for nearly 12 months, even though he was eating as much " food " as the

average adult (the growing he finally did, in January this year, came during

a week when he had a lot more fruit than cooked foods, and little meat, and

he ate, quite literally, every moment he was awake, and not in the pool or

shower). His bowels stank, enough to bring tears to my eyes, his belly was

bulging like he had a balloon under his shirt, and the temper tantrums were

getting a bit insane. All his food was cooked at home, no added anything, he

didn't have a single thing from a packet except the gluten-free vegan cake I

made for his 2nd birthday, and swimming once a week for about half an hour

during summer, the pool closed back in March or April, on one of the hottest

days of the year.

 

Since I've taken us both off cooked foods, and on 100% raw, both our tempers

have stabilised, he's been sleeping through the night, his bowels are nearly

as nice as the breastmilk poo (which smells quite sweet in comparison!), his

belly is flat again, and he's growing a LOT.

 

We still have a long way to go, but these last few weeks, and my various,

ahem, experiments, which I'm still recovering from, have been more than

enough to show me that this is the way to go. I'm a scientist at heart, and

have always prefered to set an event in motion, then sit back and observe

the results - yes, I research to make sure I'm not accidentally creating a

bomb, but I prefer to form my conclusion after I get my data, not base it on

other, possibly flawed, experiments. I also follow scientific method, which

includes testing one thing at a time on a single sample. Multiple testing

gives useless results.

 

When I first heard of going raw, I did wonder how I could get my meat - I

don't like raw meat, medium rare is about as pink as I like it. I like a lot

of meat too, could eat a whole roast lamb if I had the time. I really wasn't

keen on a diet that didn't include any meat at all, so none of the results

I've gotten so far have been at all what I expected, or what I wanted.

Including the result where meat made me sick, and didn't taste very good,

after being off it for a few weeks.

 

Caron

[Guest guest]

Well with all you guys eating the perfect diet. Toxins in the body

should be pretty much non existant anyway.

 

Belinda

 

 

 

> -

> Belinda

> >But food does need to stay in the body long enough for the

nutrients

> to be absorbed. If expelled to quickly, the nutrients will go with

> it.

>

> A healthy digestive system will have absorbed all the nutrients

before the

> food reaches the bowel.

>

> Caron

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, Caron. I did not realize the extint of your struggles with your

boy's health. There is nothing more frustrating than dealing with

health issues with our children.

 

I had some digestive issues with my son when he was a baby. Not to

the extint or the duration of yours though. But very worrisom and

frustrating.

 

As for my remark about people with health problems and highly

processed foods, etc.

 

I was speaking of the more common things. Things that are so common

and expected that it is almost viewed as normal. I don't consider

your son's digestive problems to be any where near common.

 

Sounds like you might be on the right track with feeding him the raw

fruit.

 

I am sure no knocking it. I am the one with a cousin with a little 3

year old that is growing quite well on little more than pasturaized

milk. She just drinks it all day and only eats a few bites when

someone get talk her into it.

The doctors say she is fine and let her eat or drink what she wants,

when she wants. So that is what they do.

 

Not that it matters,(we all know doctors don't know everything) but

what does your boy's pediatrician say about his eating/digesting

troubles?

 

I hope you will keep posting your progress with your boy and

yourself, so that others might benefit.

 

But most of all I hope you find what the boy needs to grow, thrive

and be healthy. That is what is most important. Whatever that is or

whatever it takes.

 

{{{{{{hugs Caron}}}}}}}}

 

Belinda

 

 

> -

> Belinda

>

> >I don't know any vegan children either. Nor adults, that I know of.

>

> I'd prefer to see some real-life examples, rather than trusting

mainstream

> studies that are possibly sponsored by the people selling things

that vegans

> don't eat. If we're refering to isolated cases, I know of far

more " isolated

> cases " of non-vegan children being malnourished (as in lacking

nutrients,

> not underfed).

>

> >The children and adults that I know that are plagued with all sorts

> of maladies, physical and behavioural, eat a lot of things that are

> highly processed and full of all sorts of chemicals. There homes are

> also full of chemicals. They take all sorts of medications and man

> made supplements, etc. Dirnking city water that is full of all sorts

> of chemicals. Many have swimming pools that they swim in a lot,

> which of course, is full of chemicals. And it goes on and on.

>

> >I don't believe for on second that their health problems are due to

> the fact that they eat meat.

>

> My son had his first meal of " solids " (pureed cooked veges,

homemade) at 8

> months, and his first bowel infection shortly after; his first swim

in a

> public pool was over a month later (and no solids since the first

lot). He

> started solids at 12 months, and was fine until he started eating

cooked

> foods, and he started rapidly losing weight. There was no swimming,

and

> definitely no junk foods, and I never use chemicals around him,

because he's

> very sensitive to everything, and I like him to have clear skin and

no

> wheezing. At 16 months, I took him off solids completely, and he

started

> regaining weight, and the other problems also disappeared. Then he

started

> back on fruit, and he was fine until the cooked foods started

again - all

> the advice I got was to just " feed him more food " (food being

cooked foods,

> including meat). He didn't grow a single millimetre, or put on even

a gram,

> for nearly 12 months, even though he was eating as much " food " as

the

> average adult (the growing he finally did, in January this year,

came during

> a week when he had a lot more fruit than cooked foods, and little

meat, and

> he ate, quite literally, every moment he was awake, and not in the

pool or

> shower). His bowels stank, enough to bring tears to my eyes, his

belly was

> bulging like he had a balloon under his shirt, and the temper

tantrums were

> getting a bit insane. All his food was cooked at home, no added

anything, he

> didn't have a single thing from a packet except the gluten-free

vegan cake I

> made for his 2nd birthday, and swimming once a week for about half

an hour

> during summer, the pool closed back in March or April, on one of

the hottest

> days of the year.

>

> Since I've taken us both off cooked foods, and on 100% raw, both

our tempers

> have stabilised, he's been sleeping through the night, his bowels

are nearly

> as nice as the breastmilk poo (which smells quite sweet in

comparison!), his

> belly is flat again, and he's growing a LOT.

>

> We still have a long way to go, but these last few weeks, and my

various,

> ahem, experiments, which I'm still recovering from, have been more

than

> enough to show me that this is the way to go. I'm a scientist at

heart, and

> have always prefered to set an event in motion, then sit back and

observe

> the results - yes, I research to make sure I'm not accidentally

creating a

> bomb, but I prefer to form my conclusion after I get my data, not

base it on

> other, possibly flawed, experiments. I also follow scientific

method, which

> includes testing one thing at a time on a single sample. Multiple

testing

> gives useless results.

>

> When I first heard of going raw, I did wonder how I could get my

meat - I

> don't like raw meat, medium rare is about as pink as I like it. I

like a lot

> of meat too, could eat a whole roast lamb if I had the time. I

really wasn't

> keen on a diet that didn't include any meat at all, so none of the

results

> I've gotten so far have been at all what I expected, or what I

wanted.

> Including the result where meat made me sick, and didn't taste very

good,

> after being off it for a few weeks.

>

> Caron

>

[Guest guest]

On Monday 02 July 2007 23:36, Caron wrote:

> I hadn't had meat in about 3 or 4 weeks, until last weekend,

> when I had a small, very lean lamb steak, and felt horrible for 2 days

> afterwards. I've always loved eating meat, but now I'm not so sure.

 

If my understanding is correct, this is only because you didn't eat the meat

raw. If you had and it were completely fresh there would have been sufficient

enzymes to aid the digestion. You have'nt been eating meat regularly and your

body is no longer used to synthesising these enzymes for you. It's just like

having a cigarette after none for a week. Yeuck! But a couple more and it

gets comfortable again.

 

neal.

[Guest guest]

On Tuesday 03 July 2007 19:37, neal wrote:

> On Monday 02 July 2007 23:36, Caron wrote:

> > I hadn't had meat in about 3 or 4 weeks, until last weekend,

> > when I had a small, very lean lamb steak, and felt horrible for 2 days

> > afterwards. I've always loved eating meat, but now I'm not so sure.

>

> If my understanding is correct, this is only because you didn't eat the

> meat raw. If you had and it were completely fresh there would have been

> sufficient enzymes to aid the digestion. You have'nt been eating meat

> regularly and your body is no longer used to synthesising these enzymes for

> you. It's just like having a cigarette after none for a week. Yeuck! But a

> couple more and it gets comfortable again.

>

> neal.

>

 

btw, I wasn't suggesting you continue eating meat, only that it is easy to

slip into old habits.

 

neal.

[Guest guest]

-

Belinda

>As for my remark about people with health problems and highly

processed foods, etc.

 

>I was speaking of the more common things. Things that are so common

and expected that it is almost viewed as normal. I don't consider

your son's digestive problems to be any where near common.

 

Sadly, digestive problems are far more common than most people, particularly

parents, are aware. I ignored all the " information " put out by baby food

companies, that was handed to every new parent who went through the

hospital, and I watched the babies for the information they would give, on

the assumption that a newborn infant is about as pure as a human can get,

ignoring any toxins passed on through the mother via placenta and

breastmilk. Formula fed babies take on an odd look from the moment they

start on formula: their poo changes, becomes very pasty, and constipation is

considered normal; their skin becomes blotchy, pale or red; their head grows

larger than breastfed babies (no idea what this means); they don't seem

quite as flexible, or move as easily. The same changes occur when solids are

started prior to 12 months, and are more noticable the earlier solids are

started. The changes are also more pronounced in a child going from

breastmilk to solids than one going from formula to solids. They have a

different look in their eyes, like they are focused inward, trying to will

their belly to work without hurting them. I know a lot of babies, and often

prefer to watch the babies than the parents, because they're an open book

with regard to health.

 

>Sounds like you might be on the right track with feeding him the raw

fruit.

 

I hope so! Like you said, it's been so hard watching him suffer, and I've

had enough of that for a while.

 

>I am sure no knocking it. I am the one with a cousin with a little 3

year old that is growing quite well on little more than pasturaized

milk. She just drinks it all day and only eats a few bites when

someone get talk her into it.

The doctors say she is fine and let her eat or drink what she wants,

when she wants. So that is what they do.

 

This concerns me. Does the child have any impairments (intellectual or

otherwise)? I feel that those doctors are bordering on negligence in

allowing it to continue.

 

>Not that it matters,(we all know doctors don't know everything) but

what does your boy's pediatrician say about his eating/digesting

troubles?

 

" feed him more solid food, more meat, and some bread " - after me telling him

he throws up if he has wheat. I tried for months to get some tests done,

then gave up in frustration and decided to take matters into my own hands.

 

>I hope you will keep posting your progress with your boy and

yourself, so that others might benefit.

 

I think his progress will be pretty straight forward. The damage done is

short-term, and seems to resolve itself fairly quickly. There are some

things I need to undo, like when we convinced him that meat is yummy and he

needs to eat it *sigh* but that's a work in progress. I do talk with him

about the foods we eat, and what they do to our bodies, but I know from my

own experience that some ideas take a long while to change, specially when

they come from someone trusted like a mother. As for myself, I have 26 years

to turn around, and repair the damage of, so I'm expecting that to take a

bit longer, even though I've seen some dramatic improvements in such a short

time. I am better, but far from well.

 

>But most of all I hope you find what the boy needs to grow, thrive

and be healthy. That is what is most important. Whatever that is or

whatever it takes.

 

Am working on it, and completely agree with you ) Thanks for the hugs

 

Caron

[Guest guest]

> Sadly, digestive problems are far more common than most people,

particularly

> parents, are aware. I ignored all the " information " put out by baby

food

> companies, that was handed to every new parent who went through the

> hospital, and I watched the babies for the information they would

give, on

> the assumption that a newborn infant is about as pure as a human

can get,

> ignoring any toxins passed on through the mother via placenta and

> breastmilk. Formula fed babies take on an odd look from the moment

they

> start on formula: their poo changes, becomes very pasty, and

constipation is

> considered normal; their skin becomes blotchy, pale or red; their

head grows

> larger than breastfed babies (no idea what this means); they don't

seem

> quite as flexible, or move as easily. The same changes occur when

solids are

> started prior to 12 months, and are more noticable the earlier

solids are

> started.

 

It has been 25 years since my first child was born. The one with the

digestive problems. Regretfully I did not breast feed and I believe

that to have been a lot of his problem. Baby formula is nasty.

But women just didn't do a lot of breast feeding back then. But you

know I thought at the time that it seemed to be the best way to feed

a baby. But without support for my thoughts, I didn't have the

convidence to go with my instinct.

 

I will strongly encourage my daughters to breast feed, should they

ever have children.

 

 

 

> >I am sure no knocking it. I am the one with a cousin with a little

3

> year old that is growing quite well on little more than pasturaized

> milk. She just drinks it all day and only eats a few bites when

> someone get talk her into it.

> The doctors say she is fine and let her eat or drink what she wants,

> when she wants. So that is what they do.

>

> This concerns me. Does the child have any impairments (intellectual

or

> otherwise)? I feel that those doctors are bordering on negligence

in

> allowing it to continue.

 

 

So far, she seems normal in every way. I have not spent enough time

with her myself to know a whole lot. But the doctors think she is

fine. It could be that they are giving her supplements. But it

still seems like an awful diet.

I keep telling her parents that the reason she doesn't want to eat is

because she if full of milk all the time. It ruins her appetite. If

you take the mile away, she will eat. Children will not starve

themselves to death.

But the parents don't want her to be upset and cry and since her

doctors say it is ok.............

 

 

> >Not that it matters,(we all know doctors don't know everything) but

> what does your boy's pediatrician say about his eating/digesting

> troubles?

>

> " feed him more solid food, more meat, and some bread " - after me

telling him

> he throws up if he has wheat.

 

I figured you would say that. Sooooo frustrating.

 

>

> >I hope you will keep posting your progress with your boy and

> yourself, so that others might benefit.

>

> I think his progress will be pretty straight forward. The damage

done is

> short-term, and seems to resolve itself fairly quickly. There are

some

> things I need to undo, like when we convinced him that meat is

yummy and he

> needs to eat it *sigh* but that's a work in progress. I do talk

with him

> about the foods we eat, and what they do to our bodies, but I know

from my

> own experience that some ideas take a long while to change,

specially when

> they come from someone trusted like a mother. As for myself, I have

26 years

> to turn around, and repair the damage of, so I'm expecting that to

take a

> bit longer, even though I've seen some dramatic improvements in

such a short

> time. I am better, but far from well.

 

Children are so resiliant (thankfully) and as soon as you find what

works(and you may have already found it) for him, he will take right

off.

 

Belinda

[Guest guest]

-

Belinda

>It has been 25 years since my first child was born. The one with the

digestive problems. Regretfully I did not breast feed and I believe

that to have been a lot of his problem. Baby formula is nasty.

But women just didn't do a lot of breast feeding back then. But you

know I thought at the time that it seemed to be the best way to feed

a baby. But without support for my thoughts, I didn't have the

convidence to go with my instinct.

 

This is what really upsets me about parents today (and " back then " ) - there

IS no support, mainstream, and formula companies are pushing their

information on people, and non-profit organisations like La Leche League in

the US, and the Australian Breastfeeding Association, can't afford the same

exposure. The ABA has come ahead by leaps and bounds in recent years though,

and counselours and educators and lactation consultants can be found at most

hospitals, though they are there on a voluntary basis. So many mums I've

talked to have been very upset that they were never able to breastfeed, or

that they stopped after X number of weeks or months, because their supply

dropped (usually because they were supplementing with formula), or because

they just didn't have support during the early days, when it can be very

discouraging if the milk takes a few days to come in (even though the

colostrum is what the baby NEEDS in the first few days), and then the

blocked ducts (often mistaken for mastitis), cracked or blistered nipples

from incorrect latch on, the " frequent " feeding (newborns need to feed every

2-3 hours; most mothers get upset if they're feeding as frequently as every

4 hours!), and all the other fun things that go with breastfeeding. I have

never had to get out of bed for a nighttime feed though, because the boy

slept with me, and could feed when he needed to, without either of us having

to wake up fully. I really feel for mums who never had support for

breastfeeding, because they often feel so guilty, especially when another

study comes out showing the benefits of breastfeeding. I don't blame the

mothers though, I blame the complete lack of education about what our bodies

can do. Way back when, the older women would teach the younger women all of

this, but these days, most mothers don't even want to explain menstruation

to their children, let alone something as " icky " as breastfeeding *sigh*.

 

>I will strongly encourage my daughters to breast feed, should they

ever have children.

 

Great! I had (and still have) my mother's support, and it has made things

much easier than it might otherwise have been. She breastfed us (my older

brother till 12 months, she was pregnant with me when she stopped because

she was lethargic; me to 2.5years; younger brother to 3.5years), and was an

active member of the Nursing Mother's Association of Australia (NMAA), as

the ABA was called back then, so knowing that she had done it helped, but

also knowing I wouldn't have to make excuses, or explain my decision to her

helped even more. La Leche League, I believe, has a similar setup to the

ABA, with meetings in each state, not sure about how widespread they are in

terms of towns, and information on their website. There are a few other

websites that offer information about breastfeeding, all aspects of it, so

if you ever need the info, I'm happy to pass on a list of links.

 

>So far, she seems normal in every way. I have not spent enough time

with her myself to know a whole lot. But the doctors think she is

fine. It could be that they are giving her supplements. But it

still seems like an awful diet.

I keep telling her parents that the reason she doesn't want to eat is

because she if full of milk all the time. It ruins her appetite. If

you take the mile away, she will eat. Children will not starve

themselves to death.

But the parents don't want her to be upset and cry and since her

doctors say it is ok.............

 

Do they want to be visiting her ICU bed? I'd rather the crying, it only

lasts a moment, and if it keeps going, a good firm tickle will soon have it

out of the way ;o) My boy often sobs over my cruelty at not allowing more

almonds, or when I offer him kiwi fruit instead of banana, but my job as a

mother is to do my utmost to make him healthy, not pander to his whims that

may injure him, or not make his health optimal (not that prefering bananas

to kiwifruit is going to injure him, but it was an alternative to almonds,

hehe). She may be " fine " now, to the casual observer, but take her off milk

and put her on decent food, and you'll see a totally different child.

 

> >Not that it matters,(we all know doctors don't know everything) but

> what does your boy's pediatrician say about his eating/digesting

> troubles?

>

> " feed him more solid food, more meat, and some bread " - after me

telling him

> he throws up if he has wheat.

 

>I figured you would say that. Sooooo frustrating.

 

VERY frustrating, and why I stopped taking him to doctors. I've struggled

with the health system here since I was pregnant, and I've had enough. They

never listen to me, then when things happen -exactly- as I predict, they

turn around and inform me like I have no idea what's going on. And every

time I've trusted them, and not my instinct, his health has ended up

jeopardised.

 

 

> Children are so resiliant (thankfully) and as soon as you find what

works(and you may have already found it) for him, he will take right

off.

 

I know children are resiliant, and I know he's happy, and intelligent, and

full of energy, but I can't help feeling a niggling guilt that he missed out

on nearly 18 months of growing because of the foods I fed him. I -know- I

stuffed up, I know I should have caught on to all this 8 years ago, and

saved my own health as well, but I've acknowledged that, and I'm not going

to waste my time on " what if " s - all I can do is go forward from here, and

do my best for both of us. (Yes, this is me trying to convince myself, hehe)

And when I think about it, if he HAD grown all that time, at the rate he's

been growing, he'd been taller than me by now, so maybe it's a good thing?!

(bad joke)

 

Caron