How far do you take your ethics?

[Guest guest]

Wow! Sounds like you and Kat do a lot towards living an ethical and greener

life. At the moment it makes me feel like i'm just not doing nearly enough.

But then the way that i look at it i'm probably a few years behind you

guys, i mean, this time last year i was eating meat and not paying much

attention to what i was buying. I became a veggie in July and a vegan just

2 weeks ago. Once i'm settled in that i can start to examine other areas of

my lifestyle.

I recycle bottles at the moment but thats it, mainly due to lack of space.

I live in a little flat and don't have space for boxes for stuff. Also i

want to compost etc but don't have a garden. I live i a small flat with no

space for boxes etc at the moment. But as i mentioned in a previous email

i'm moving soon hopefully so i can sort everything out then.

I used to visit the library alot but mainly because i was a kid and couldn't

afford to buy all the books i wanted. That sounds kinda selfish, and

probably is. I have a big book fetish

But i never chuck out books. I have so many i don't have space for them!

Once i've read them i still keep them unless they'r not very good, then they

go to the charity shop.

When i was a kid i used to have 2 really cool books, one was about green

issues and what you could do eg recycling, composting, how to make one thing

into another etc, the other was a naturebook with how to make your garden

attractive to wildlife, how to build bird boxes etc from scrap. I'd love to

get my hands on them again. They were kids books but so easy to understand

and full of ideas. Maybe i could get them to use then keep them for when i

have kids!

 

 

 

>Saoirse Soya <saoirse_soya

>

>

>Re: How far do you take your ethics?

>Fri, 14 Mar 2003 07:46:56 -0800 (PST)

>

>

>Hi Chris,

>That's a really interesting point. I try to go as far as I can and live as

>simply as possible, recycling, composting, not buying from multinationals

>or chain stores but smaller, independent firms.

>I try to cut as much stress out of my life as possible as well. I think

>stress is a big pollutant threatening our nervous systems and our

>relationships with each other, animals and our environment.

>I think waste is immoral and have furnished my entire flat with discarded

>stuff and it's a lovely space if you don't mind me saying so. I find a lot

>of stuff including clothes which come out fine in the wash; I think it's

>disgusting to see the waste of resources, creativity, production,

>technology and practicality just lying there at the side of the road.

>My cats aren't vegan but my dog is. I only feed my cats fishy stuff

>because I perceive that fish have had a freer life unlike farm animals

>which were born into oppression and agony. I wish I could get my cats to

>go vegan because my fish theory is pretty 'fishy' isn't it?!

>I always think I can go further in terms of an ethical lifestyle. I think

>keeping fit and healthy is essential as that also takes a lot of impact out

>of the NHS, the pharmaceutical industry and therefore the whole animal

>abuse industry and saves the body a lot of hassle in the long run.

>I try not to buy books or mags but use the library. Surprisingly fewer and

>fewer people are going to the library.

>I try not to eat out too much as restaurants waste a lot of food and very

>rarely ever compost it.

>I work on voluntary projects as I feel we all need to put back into our

>community and we all have skills to offer each other. I help facilitate a

>space in which kids can make fun stuff out of scrap and we also teach

>recycling. I collect recycling once a week as well as part of a

>regeneration project on an estate.

>I really think it's 'monkey see monkey do' and the more people living

>ethically, the more will become ethical consumers.

>BTW, magazine and organisations like Ethical Consumer restore my faith in

>ourselves as a species. That doesn't happen very often. Thank you for

>bring it to this group.

> Chris W <chrisw wrote:Picking up the gauntlet which was laid

>down yesterday about starting

>discussion threads, one thing I've wondered about is how far other

>vegans are ethical in every day life? For example, have you signed up

>with a green electricity company? Do you actively boycott any particular

>companies and, if so, on what grounds? Do you go out of your way to buy

>organic and/or fairtrade products? etc. etc.

>

>For some at least, I guess it comes down to a question of convenience

>and time against how strongly we feel about something. I've bought the

>Ethical Consumer (http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/) publication " The Good

>Shopping Guide " and have d to their magazine. There are

>certainly a few eye-openers in there, but in some cases you have to go

>seriously out of your way to obtain the most ethical goods or services.

>So, how far do you go in pursuit of an ethical lifestyle and how often

>do you find yourself wondering if it's far enough?

>

>Chris W

>

>

[Guest guest]

I do boycott Nestle because of their irresponsible marketing of babymilk, I also try to remember which things to boycott from such vivisectors as Proctor and Gamble and Unilever although don't always get it right.

 

We recycle cans, bottles, paper. We don't drive.

 

We buy some organic and fairtrade goods.

 

Wish I was organised enough to do more.

 

Lesley

 

 

 

Chris W [chrisw]13 March 2003 18:33 Subject: How far do you take your ethics?Picking up the gauntlet which was laid down yesterday about startingdiscussion threads, one thing I've wondered about is how far othervegans are ethical in every day life? For example, have you signed upwith a green electricity company? Do you actively boycott any particularcompanies and, if so, on what grounds? Do you go out of your way to buyorganic and/or fairtrade products? etc. etc.For some at least, I guess it comes down to a question of convenienceand time against how strongly we feel about something. I've bought theEthical Consumer (http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/) publication "The GoodShopping Guide" and have d to their magazine. There arecertainly a few eye-openers in there, but in some cases you have to goseriously out of your way to obtain the most ethical goods or services.So, how far do you go in pursuit of an ethical lifestyle and how oftendo you find yourself wondering if it's far enough?Chris W~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

[Guest guest]

Hey, Saoirse --

 

Two dogs and one cat live with us. I actually made a bit of a gaffe

regarding their food. It's a bit of a misnomer to say that i feed

Pants (feline) primarily organic food, as he eats Veggiepet cat kibble

drizzled in organic olive oil and sprinkled with Engevita yeast and

organic nori. He also loves organic mushroom pate as a treat. But, as

you can clearly see, he doesn't dine on organic food altogether,

unfortunately. There is an organic, vegan cat kibble manufactured by

an extremely knowledgeable Australian nutritionist. Unfortunately,

it's only available in Australia and New Zealand at the mo'. She wrote

an email to me which said that she has found an English company who

will produce the food in the UK, but she wasn't sure when this would

commence.

Our dogs eat better than we do, i think! They get all of the raw fruit

and veg that we eat (organic), as well as organic wheat grass juice,

organic oats, organic rice, Yarrah, ginger, organic olive oil, organic

tamari...they are both nearly fourteen/fifteen years old and are still

full of energy. Jaque, who's been vegan for ten years, hasn't had any

real health problems. Barney, who i adopted five (nearly six) years

ago when she was nine years old, has had gastroenteritis a couple of

times, but is in good health, otherwise.

Anyhow, i don't really have the ancient secrets when it comes to

tempting cats to eat the Vegecat recipes. When Pants was eating it, he

just wanted me to change it quite often. He liked the chick pea recipe

and the tempeh recipe. He's absolutely mad about mushrooms. What have

you tried feeding your cats? You said that they like fish. Have you

tried mixing the Vegecat with a Tuno (available from the Veganstore)

base? If i can help at all, let me know!

 

k@

On Saturday, Mar 15, 2003, at 11:12 Europe/London, Saoirse Soya wrote:

 

> Thanks Kat. I have quite a bit of time on my hands to maintain this

> lifestyle (yawn...) which is something a lot of people are short of. I

> don't have green leckie though, I'm on a key metre and the provider

> wants to charge me a small fortune to leave it so one of these

> days...  

>

> I'm really interested in what you're feeding your non-human

> companions.  Are they cats? (Oh please, please what is the secret

> ingredient to add to recipe and vegecat...!?) My dog's on Happy Dog

> but I could be feeding a lot more of what I eat since he's always

> trying to slobber over what I'm eating anyway! 

>

>

>

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>

>

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[Guest guest]

Laura,

Fret not! We all make progress at our own speeds. I certainly didn't

know half of the stuff i know now when i first became vegan. In fact,

when i first went vegan, i wasn't familiar with the term. I just

referred to myself as a strict vegetarian.

 

I think that it's excellent how far you've come and how aware you have

become in such a short space of time. Amazing! You'll eclipse me

soon, i'm certain. )

 

k@

On Saturday, Mar 15, 2003, at 11:54 Europe/London, Laura Moore wrote:

 

> Wow!  Sounds like you and Kat do a lot towards living an ethical and

> greener

> life.  At the moment it makes me feel like i'm just not doing nearly

> enough.

>   But then the way that i look at it i'm probably a few years behind

> you

> guys, i mean, this time last year i was eating meat and not paying much

> attention to what i was buying.  I became a veggie in July and a vegan

> just

> 2 weeks ago.  Once i'm settled in that i can start to examine other

> areas of

> my lifestyle.

> I recycle bottles at the moment but thats it, mainly due to lack of

> space. 

> I live in a little flat and don't have space for boxes for stuff. 

> Also i

> want to compost etc but don't have a garden.  I live i a small flat

> with no

> space for boxes etc at the moment.  But as i mentioned in a previous

> email

> i'm moving soon hopefully so i can sort everything out then.

> I used to visit the library alot but mainly because i was a kid and

> couldn't

> afford to buy all the books i wanted.  That sounds kinda selfish, and

> probably is.  I have a big book fetish

> But i never chuck out books.  I have so many i don't have space for

> them! 

> Once i've read them i still keep them unless they'r not very good,

> then they

> go to the charity shop.

> When i was a kid i used to have 2 really cool books, one was about

> green

> issues and what you could do eg recycling, composting, how to make one

> thing

> into another etc, the other was a naturebook with how to make your

> garden

> attractive to wildlife, how to build bird boxes etc from scrap.  I'd

> love to

> get my hands on them again.  They were kids books but so easy to

> understand

> and full of ideas.  Maybe i could get them to use then keep them for

> when i

> have kids! 

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the kind words Kat!

I just hope to be able to achieve all the things that you have

 

>Kat <kittyveg

>...I think that it's excellent how far you've come and how aware you have

>become in such a short space of time. Amazing! You'll eclipse me soon,

>i'm certain. )

>

>k@

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Kat, just wanted to say thanks for that advice. I really need to have a look at this vegan.store and just keep experimenting at intervals with recipes and vegecat. My cats will nibble on wee bits of cheesly, little nori sheets and engevita but all together with a vegekit receipe, they turn their noses up. Pants is a great name and your dogs sound great for their ages. Take care.

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi,

Id just like to say that I am still not convinced on this whole subject of

feeding cats veggiecat. I have two rejects turned loveable monsters and even

though I am vegan, do their hunting for them in the supermarket for the body

parts that they are too lazy to kill themselves. I still belive that cats

physiologically need taurine, but if vegiecat contains taurine then more power

to its elbow.

Basically judge me if you like , but I will not force my beliefs or views on any

living creature.

> Hi Kat, just wanted to say thanks for that advice. I really need to have a

look at this vegan.store and just keep experimenting at intervals with recipes

and vegecat. My cats will nibble on wee bits of cheesly, little nori sheets and

engevita but all together with a vegekit receipe, they turn their noses up.

Pants is a great name and your dogs sound great for their ages. Take care.

>

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Peter H

 

--------------------

talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at

http://www.talk21.com

[Guest guest]

Veggiecat does have synthesized taurine...my problem is that one of my cats is

allergic to a ton of things and has to eat meat thus far. Also, corn and wheat

do have a lot of protein, but what is actually biologically useful from that is

only a small percentage of the total available because of the way animal bodies

break things down...although in a way that is good because foods on the market

are way too hight in protein anyway. (hi, I " m new)

 

Quoting swpgh01:

 

>

> Hi,

> Id just like to say that I am still not convinced on this whole subject of

> feeding cats veggiecat. I have two rejects turned loveable monsters and even

> though I am vegan, do their hunting for them in the supermarket for the body

> parts that they are too lazy to kill themselves. I still belive that cats

> physiologically need taurine, but if vegiecat contains taurine then more

> power to its elbow.

> Basically judge me if you like , but I will not force my beliefs or views on

> any living creature.

> > Hi Kat, just wanted to say thanks for that advice. I really need to have a

> look at this vegan.store and just keep experimenting at intervals with

> recipes and vegecat. My cats will nibble on wee bits of cheesly, little nori

> sheets and engevita but all together with a vegekit receipe, they turn their

> noses up. Pants is a great name and your dogs sound great for their ages.

> Take care.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!

>

> Peter H

>

> --------------------

> talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at

> http://www.talk21.com

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

You are forcing death on cows/pigs/chicken etc to feed your cat. ( As I

am ) but I don't make statements like yours

 

A

 

 

swpgh01 [swpgh01]

22 March 2003 14:52

;

Re: How far do you take your ethics?

 

 

 

Hi,

Id just like to say that I am still not convinced on this whole subject

of feeding cats veggiecat. I have two rejects turned loveable monsters

and even though I am vegan, do their hunting for them in the supermarket

for the body parts that they are too lazy to kill themselves. I still

belive that cats physiologically need taurine, but if vegiecat contains

taurine then more power to its elbow. Basically judge me if you like ,

but I will not force my beliefs or views on any living creature.

>

 

---

 

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release 27/01/2003

[Guest guest]

I know I'm probably thick but what is taurine? Where does it come from?

 

<3

Shari Black Velvet

 

-

" Angie Wright " <angiewright

 

Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:46 PM

RE: How far do you take your ethics?

 

 

> You are forcing death on cows/pigs/chicken etc to feed your cat. ( As I

> am ) but I don't make statements like yours

>

> A

>

>

> swpgh01 [swpgh01]

> 22 March 2003 14:52

> ;

> Re: How far do you take your ethics?

>

>

>

> Hi,

> Id just like to say that I am still not convinced on this whole subject

> of feeding cats veggiecat. I have two rejects turned loveable monsters

> and even though I am vegan, do their hunting for them in the supermarket

> for the body parts that they are too lazy to kill themselves. I still

> belive that cats physiologically need taurine, but if vegiecat contains

> taurine then more power to its elbow. Basically judge me if you like ,

> but I will not force my beliefs or views on any living creature.

> >

>

> ---

>

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release 27/01/2003

>

>

>

>

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> there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

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>

[Guest guest]

Ok, I've just looked on the net and found out its an amino acid. So is it

taken from animals? Damn... I think I've been drinking things with taurine

in not knowing what it was... aargh.

 

Can someone confirm whether it's definitely an animal by-product or not?

 

<3

Shari Black Velvet

 

-

" Shari " <shari

 

Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:14 PM

Re: How far do you take your ethics?

 

 

> I know I'm probably thick but what is taurine? Where does it come from?

>

> <3

> Shari Black Velvet

[Guest guest]

Red Bull's taurine is definately synthetic...not from animals...there was

controversy here in the states when there was some bad publicity and then Red

Bull contested it saying it was synthetic.

 

 

Quoting " Shari " <shari:

 

> Ok, I've just looked on the net and found out its an amino acid. So is it

> taken from animals? Damn... I think I've been drinking things with taurine

> in not knowing what it was... aargh.

>

> Can someone confirm whether it's definitely an animal by-product or not?

>

> <3

> Shari Black Velvet

>

> -

> " Shari " <shari

>

> Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:14 PM

> Re: How far do you take your ethics?

>

>

> > I know I'm probably thick but what is taurine? Where does it come from?

> >

> > <3

> > Shari Black Velvet

>

>

>

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> there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

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>

[Guest guest]

One last email, I promise I won't send anymore (I'm just stressing out

here)! I just checked the ingredients of Red Bull and it has taurine listed,

but in my Vegan Shopper from the vegan society (ok, mine's not the newest

one, but the previous one) it lists Red Bull as being ok.

 

So... Taurine? Can we or can't we? And if we can't - are there any energy

drinks like Red Bull/Red Devil that we *can* drink (I need keeping awake

some days after late nights the night before!)

 

<3

Shari Black Velvet

 

-

" Shari " <shari

 

Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:37 PM

Re: How far do you take your ethics?

 

 

> Ok, I've just looked on the net and found out its an amino acid. So is it

> taken from animals? Damn... I think I've been drinking things with taurine

> in not knowing what it was... aargh.

>

> Can someone confirm whether it's definitely an animal by-product or not?

>

> <3

> Shari Black Velvet

>

[Guest guest]

-

" Shari " <shari

 

Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:46 PM

Re: How far do you take your ethics?

 

 

What you could do is phone the red bull company and ask them to tell you

whether it's ok and to tell you in writing.

 

Simon

> So... Taurine? Can we or can't we? And if we can't - are there any energy

> drinks like Red Bull/Red Devil that we *can* drink (I need keeping awake

> some days after late nights the night before!)

>

> <3

> Shari Black Velvet

>

> -

> " Shari " <shari

>

> Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:37 PM

> Re: How far do you take your ethics?

>

>

> > Ok, I've just looked on the net and found out its an amino acid. So is

it

> > taken from animals? Damn... I think I've been drinking things with

taurine

> > in not knowing what it was... aargh.

> >

> > Can someone confirm whether it's definitely an animal by-product or not?

> >

> > <3

> > Shari Black Velvet

> >

>

>

>

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> Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,

> there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

> ---------------------------

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>

[Guest guest]

I've already emailed Red Devil - because that's what I drink more than Red

Bull.

 

<3

Shari Black Velvet

 

-

" simonpjones " <simonpjones

 

Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:54 PM

Re: How far do you take your ethics?

 

 

>

> -

> " Shari " <shari

>

> Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:46 PM

> Re: How far do you take your ethics?

>

>

> What you could do is phone the red bull company and ask them to tell you

> whether it's ok and to tell you in writing.

>

> Simon

> > So... Taurine? Can we or can't we? And if we can't - are there any

energy

> > drinks like Red Bull/Red Devil that we *can* drink (I need keeping awake

> > some days after late nights the night before!)

> >

> > <3

> > Shari Black Velvet

> >

> > -

> > " Shari " <shari

> >

> > Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:37 PM

> > Re: How far do you take your ethics?

> >

> >

> > > Ok, I've just looked on the net and found out its an amino acid. So is

> it

> > > taken from animals? Damn... I think I've been drinking things with

> taurine

> > > in not knowing what it was... aargh.

> > >

> > > Can someone confirm whether it's definitely an animal by-product or

not?

> > >

> > > <3

> > > Shari Black Velvet

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,

> > there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

> > ---------------------------

> > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?

> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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> >

[Guest guest]

To be on the safe side just drink bottled water

 

, " Shari@B... " <shari@b...> wrote:

> I've already emailed Red Devil - because that's what I drink more

than Red

> Bull.

>

> <3

> Shari Black Velvet

>

> -

> " simonpjones " <simonpjones@o...>

>

> Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:54 PM

> Re: How far do you take your ethics?

>

>

> >

> > -

> > " Shari@B... " <shari@b...>

> >

> > Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:46 PM

> > Re: How far do you take your ethics?

> >

> >

> > What you could do is phone the red bull company and ask them to

tell you

> > whether it's ok and to tell you in writing.

> >

> > Simon

> > > So... Taurine? Can we or can't we? And if we can't - are there

any

> energy

> > > drinks like Red Bull/Red Devil that we *can* drink (I need

keeping awake

> > > some days after late nights the night before!)

> > >

> > > <3

> > > Shari Black Velvet

> > >

> > > -

> > > " Shari@B... " <shari@b...>

> > >

> > > Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:37 PM

> > > Re: How far do you take your ethics?

> > >

> > >

> > > > Ok, I've just looked on the net and found out its an amino

acid. So is

> > it

> > > > taken from animals? Damn... I think I've been drinking things

with

> > taurine

> > > > in not knowing what it was... aargh.

> > > >

> > > > Can someone confirm whether it's definitely an animal by-

product or

> not?

> > > >

> > > > <3

> > > > Shari Black Velvet

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the

author,

> > > there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

> > > ---------------------------

> > > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?

> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>

> > > Un: send a blank message to -

 

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hey, there --

 

Veggiepet does, indeed, contain taurine. As a matter of fact, it's the

same sort of synthetic taurine that is used in most commercial pet

foods. You see, by the time that the not-fit-for-human-consumption

animal-by-products have gone through the rendering process, little of

the inherent taurine remains. Therefore, synthetic taurine is added

during the production process of the pet food.

 

I won't try to convince you to feed your cats a vegan diet, but if you

find yourself curious at all, there's plenty of reading that i could

suggest. I'd also be willing to answer any questions regarding my

decision, but i don't want to bore the list. If you want to e-mail me

privately, carry on.

 

Cheers,

k@

On Saturday, Mar 22, 2003, at 14:52 Europe/London, swpgh01

wrote:

 

>

> Hi,

> Id just like to say that I am still not convinced on this whole

> subject of feeding cats veggiecat. I have two rejects turned loveable

> monsters and even though I am vegan, do their hunting for them in the

> supermarket for the body parts that they are too lazy to kill

> themselves. I still belive that cats physiologically need taurine, but

> if vegiecat contains taurine then more power to its elbow.

> Basically judge me if you like , but I will not force my beliefs or

> views on any living creature.

> > Hi Kat, just wanted to say thanks for that advice.  I really need to

> have a look at this vegan.store and just keep experimenting at

> intervals with recipes and vegecat. My cats will nibble on wee bits of

> cheesly, little nori sheets and engevita but all together with a

> vegekit receipe, they turn their noses up. Pants is a great name and

> your dogs sound great for their ages.  Take care.

[Guest guest]

And make sure it's glass bottles, so no synthetic bits leach out of the

plastic into the water...

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[or alternatively decide the waste involved in bottled water is worse than

what you get from the tap]

[Guest guest]

Why not , lifes too short. you are entitled to make any statement you

like....you know where the delete button is!

> You are forcing death on cows/pigs/chicken etc to feed your cat. ( As I

>am ) but I don't make statements like yours

>

>A

>

>

>swpgh01 [swpgh01]

>22 March 2003 14:52

> ;

>Re: How far do you take your ethics?

>

>

>

>Hi,

>Id just like to say that I am still not convinced on this whole subject

>of feeding cats veggiecat. I have two rejects turned loveable monsters

>and even though I am vegan, do their hunting for them in the supermarket

>for the body parts that they are too lazy to kill themselves. I still

>belive that cats physiologically need taurine, but if vegiecat contains

>taurine then more power to its elbow. Basically judge me if you like ,

>but I will not force my beliefs or views on any living creature.

>

>

>---

>

>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<a Target='_new'

Href='http://talk21.btopenworld.com/redirect.html?http://www.grisoft.com)'>http:\

//www.grisoft.com)</a>

>Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release 27/01/2003

>

>

>

>

>~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,

>there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

>---------------------------

>Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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>

>

[Guest guest]

Taurine is a substance neccessary to all felines , and only occurs naturally in

fleshy bits!

> I know I'm probably thick but what is taurine? Where does it come from?

>

<3

>Shari Black Velvet

>

>-

> " Angie Wright " <angiewright

>

>Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:46 PM

>RE: How far do you take your ethics?

>

>

> You are forcing death on cows/pigs/chicken etc to feed your cat. ( As I

> am ) but I don't make statements like yours

>

> A

>

>

> swpgh01 [swpgh01]

> 22 March 2003 14:52

> ;

> Re: How far do you take your ethics?

>

>

>

> Hi,

> Id just like to say that I am still not convinced on this whole subject

> of feeding cats veggiecat. I have two rejects turned loveable monsters

> and even though I am vegan, do their hunting for them in the supermarket

> for the body parts that they are too lazy to kill themselves. I still

> belive that cats physiologically need taurine, but if vegiecat contains

> taurine then more power to its elbow. Basically judge me if you like ,

> but I will not force my beliefs or views on any living creature.

> >

>

> ---

>

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<a Target='_new'

Href='http://talk21.btopenworld.com/redirect.html?http://www.grisoft.com)'>http:\

//www.grisoft.com)</a>

> Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release 27/01/2003

>

>

>

>

> ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,

> there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

> ---------------------------

> Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>

> Un: send a blank message to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi back,

Thanks for the offer, but the other half of the statement is that it is their

natural diet and I do not want to force my beliefs / views on any creature.

> Hey, there --

>

>Veggiepet does, indeed, contain taurine. As a matter of fact, it's the

>same sort of synthetic taurine that is used in most commercial pet

>foods. You see, by the time that the not-fit-for-human-consumption

>animal-by-products have gone through the rendering process, little of

>the inherent taurine remains. Therefore, synthetic taurine is added

>during the production process of the pet food.

>

>I won't try to convince you to feed your cats a vegan diet, but if you

>find yourself curious at all, there's plenty of reading that i could

>suggest. I'd also be willing to answer any questions regarding my

>decision, but i don't want to bore the list. If you want to e-mail me

>privately, carry on.

>

>Cheers,

>k@

>On Saturday, Mar 22, 2003, at 14:52 Europe/London, swpgh01

>wrote:

>

>

> Hi,

> Id just like to say that I am still not convinced on this whole

> subject of feeding cats veggiecat. I have two rejects turned loveable

> monsters and even though I am vegan, do their hunting for them in the

> supermarket for the body parts that they are too lazy to kill

> themselves. I still belive that cats physiologically need taurine, but

> if vegiecat contains taurine then more power to its elbow.

> Basically judge me if you like , but I will not force my beliefs or

> views on any living creature.

> > Hi Kat, just wanted to say thanks for that advice.  I really need to

> have a look at this vegan.store and just keep experimenting at

> intervals with recipes and vegecat. My cats will nibble on wee bits of

> cheesly, little nori sheets and engevita but all together with a

> vegekit receipe, they turn their noses up. Pants is a great name and

> your dogs sound great for their ages.  Take care.

 

Peter H

 

--------------------

talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at

http://www.talk21.com

[Guest guest]

I prefer to be able to talk to people in a pleasant and friendly way

even if we disagree . You are obviously more concerned with your

entitlements ! than considering the feelings of others .

Luckily all the vegans I know are more considerate than you so I don't

need to waste my time on someone with your selfish attitude

A

 

 

Why not , lifes too short. you are entitled to make any statement you

like....you know where the delete button is!

 

> You are forcing death on cows/pigs/chicken etc to feed your cat. ( As

>I am ) but I don't make statements like yours

>

>A

>

>

>swpgh01 [swpgh01]

>22 March 2003 14:52

> ;

>Re: How far do you take your ethics?

>

>

>

 

---

 

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release 27/01/2003

[Guest guest]

I don't want to engage in too heated a debate, but you are already

forcing your beliefs of domestication on your cat(s) by keeping them in

the first place and by feeding them, i assume, a diet of rendered

animals which are not their natural prey in the first place. Fair

enough if you allow them to catch their own food. Otherwise, you're a

bit of a hypocrite.

I just sense that you're being confrontational about this. Perhaps,

i'm on the defensive, but i sensed a bit of flippancy from you. If i

have misconstrued, i apologise. I know that people would prefer for

this list to remain free of controversy, so i'll leave it there.

 

k@

On Tuesday, Mar 25, 2003, at 17:23 Europe/London, swpgh01

wrote:

 

> Hi back,

> Thanks for the offer, but the other half of the statement is that it

> is their natural diet and I do not want to force my beliefs / views on

> any creature.

> > Hey, there --

> >

> >Veggiepet does, indeed, contain taurine.  As a matter of fact, it's

> the

> >same sort of synthetic taurine that is used in most commercial pet

> >foods.  You see, by the time that the not-fit-for-human-consumption

> >animal-by-products have gone through the rendering process, little of

> >the inherent taurine remains.  Therefore, synthetic taurine is added

> >during the production process of the pet food.

> >

> >I won't try to convince you to feed your cats a vegan diet, but if you

> >find yourself curious at all, there's plenty of reading that i could

> >suggest.  I'd also be willing to answer any questions regarding my

> >decision, but i don't want to bore the list.  If you want to e-mail me

> >privately, carry on.

> >

> >Cheers,

> >k@

> >On Saturday, Mar 22, 2003, at 14:52 Europe/London, swpgh01

> >wrote:

> >

> >

> > Hi,

> > Id just like to say that I am still not convinced on this whole

> > subject of feeding cats veggiecat. I have two rejects turned loveable

> > monsters and even though I am vegan, do their hunting for them in the

> > supermarket for the body parts that they are too lazy to kill

> > themselves. I still belive that cats physiologically need taurine,

> but

> > if vegiecat contains taurine then more power to its elbow.

> > Basically judge me if you like , but I will not force my beliefs or

> > views on any living creature.

> > > Hi Kat, just wanted to say thanks for that advice.  I really need

> to

> > have a look at this vegan.store and just keep experimenting at

> > intervals with recipes and vegecat. My cats will nibble on wee bits

> of

> > cheesly, little nori sheets and engevita but all together with a

> > vegekit receipe, they turn their noses up. Pants is a great name and

> > your dogs sound great for their ages.  Take care.

>

> Peter H

>

> --------------------

> talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at

> http://www.talk21.com

>

>

<image.tiff>

>

>

> ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,

> there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

> ---------------------------

> Was this message Off Topic?  Did you know?  Was it snipped?

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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> -

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I know that people would prefer for this list to remain free of

> controversy, so i'll leave it there.

 

That being because this is the lovey-dovey singey-songy list of course.

That was flippancy.

 

Seriously people can disagree and argue all they like, it's only the

way that it is done of which you need to be wary. If every agreed and

then it would be a boring list (I know I'm asking for it by saying

that) and an utterly pointless one.

 

As to the actual matter at hand. I completely agree that swpgh01 is a

hypocrite for claiming that vegan cat foods are unnatural while buying

equally unnatural processed tinned foods. I do hope he/she appreciates

the irony as much as you and I do.

 

Also I can't help but notice the contradiction in swgph01's argument

(does he/she have a name?) that he/she does not want to force his/her

beliefs on any creature while sanctioning that some creatures are

killed in order to satisfy their belief that not only is it right to

have a cat (companion animal or pet, I'm not bothered in the semantics)

but to force on it a particular diet because it satisfies their own

beliefs in the way cats should be fed. Beliefs are being forced on the

creatures being killed in order to produce the cat food, and on the cat

in deciding what the cat eats.

 

The issue of vegan cat (or dog...) foods is a difficult one and can

easily go both ways, vegan food is more unnatural than traditional pet

foods (which though less natural are still unnatural of course), while

on the other hand there is the argument that you have already put the

cat in an unnatural domesticated position and so feeding it a

traditional pet food does not redress that balance while at the same

timemaking things worse for all those who are killed for the sake of

the pet food.

 

If anything I would say that swgph01 is being naïve in thinking that

there is a clear ethical decision here, when although it looks like one

(the forcing of a very unnatural diet onto a cat) it ignores the key

fact of their already unnatural position.

 

Michael

Logical analysis of arguments comes free

[Guest guest]

-

" mavreela " <nec.lists

 

Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:48 PM

Re: How far do you take your ethics?

 

 

Michael

Logical analysis of arguments comes free>

 

So what do you think pet dogs & cats should be fed, do you think they should

be encourgaged back into the wild?

 

Simon

 

 

 

 

~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,

there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

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