Sainsburys

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I can't rember who said it... But how can Sainsburys claim items to

be dairy free, but not mark them vegan due to possible cross contamination

with dairy? I think I'll sainsburys directly.

 

 

Rowan McCartney

Brunel University

[Guest guest]

Dairy Free labels etc. are usually of " the well, we can guarantee 99.5%

dairy free, isn't that enough " variety...

 

Steve W.

[Guest guest]

>But how can Sainsburys claim items to

>be dairy free, but not mark them vegan due to possible cross contamination

>with dairy?

 

As I said before, dairy free does not mean something hasn't been within a

100ft of a cow, it means that no dairy was used in it's

production. Possible cross contamination may occur if the same machinery

is used to process something dairy, and something dairy free. Of course

the machinery is given a thorough scrubbing between being used for

different things (as required by hygiene regulations) but there is always

that theoretical risk. Some people are just more open about it that

others. You will find products listed in the Vegan societies Vegan Shopper

book that carry such a warning of possible contamination on the packet.

 

Unless you only buy items produced on a production line which only ever

handles vegan products then you are always going to run the risk of

possible cross contamination. The actual percentile chance of

contamination is usually minuscule.

 

I guess Sainsbury's are thinking that while it contains no dairy, and so is

suitable for the lactose intolerant (and remember the free-from range of

products is aimed at allergy sufferers not vegans) they are probably

guessing that vegans wouldn't be satisfied by even a minimal risk.

 

> I think I'll sainsburys directly.

 

That's probably best.

 

Michael

[Guest guest]

couldn't you write a standard informational email exclusively about Sainsbury's Ice Cream and send it out with the rules and regulations every week?

 

 

 

Mavreela [nec.lists] As I said before, dairy free does not mean something hasn't been within a 100ft of a cow, it means that no dairy was used in it's production. Possible cross contamination may occur if the same machinery is used to process something dairy, and something dairy free. Of course the machinery is given a thorough scrubbing between being used for different things (as required by hygiene regulations) but there is always

[Guest guest]

Well, it would be useful as I get confused sometimes with the different 'terms' used and sometimes may be tricked into buying something which isn't vegan. So, maybe someone could do a short list or something?

 

Sometimes I read something on the packet and it has that mark "for vegetarians" but doesn't have one for vegans although it doesn't seem to mention anything that may be not vegan?? So I end up wondering if it is really vegan or not!!

 

How about having a folder (on the messageboard - is there one? If so I must be missing out!) called "Important Information" or something and include standard definitions so that newbie veg's can refer to it easily??

 

Oliver Slay [oliver]05 November 2002 18:07 Subject: RE: Sainsburys

couldn't you write a standard informational email exclusively about Sainsbury's Ice Cream and send it out with the rules and regulations every week?

 

 

 

Mavreela [nec.lists] As I said before, dairy free does not mean something hasn't been within a 100ft of a cow, it means that no dairy was used in it's production. Possible cross contamination may occur if the same machinery is used to process something dairy, and something dairy free. Of course the machinery is given a thorough scrubbing between being used for different things (as required by hygiene regulations) but there is always ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

[Guest guest]

I've been chatting to Sainsbury's Re their toffutti icecreams being in the same freezer as dead chicken . The reason is they are both Kosher !.

 

I told him he will lose my custom then,as I am put off buying vegan stuff with dead bodies in front of me .

 

They only care about Kosher or allergy sufferers They are not bothered about vegans . After all Sainsbury has dairy herds and is involved directly in the veal trade . A greedy cruel bastard really

 

 

Mavreela [nec.lists] 05 November 2002 17:38 Subject: Re: SainsburysI guess Sainsbury's are thinking that while it contains no dairy, and so is suitable for the lactose intolerant (and remember the free-from range of products is aimed at allergy sufferers not vegans) they are probably guessing that vegans wouldn't be satisfied by even a minimal risk.> I think I'll sainsburys directly.That's probably best.Michael

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Try isitvegan .com I think that is right

 

 

Nick Abbott [nabbott] 05 November 2002 22:56 Subject: RE: Sainsburys

Well, it would be useful as I get confused sometimes with the different 'terms' used and sometimes may be tricked into buying something which isn't vegan. So, maybe someone could do a short list or something?

 

Sometimes I read something on the packet and it has that mark "for vegetarians" but doesn't have one for vegans although it doesn't seem to mention anything that may be not vegan?? So I end up wondering if it is really vegan or not!!

 

How about having a folder (on the messageboard - is there one? If so I must be missing out!) called "Important Information" or something and include standard definitions so that newbie veg's can refer to it easily??

 

Oliver Slay [oliver]05 November 2002 18:07 Subject: RE: Sainsburys

couldn't you write a standard informational email exclusively about Sainsbury's Ice Cream and send it out with the rules and regulations every week?

 

 

 

Mavreela [nec.lists] As I said before, dairy free does not mean something hasn't been within a 100ft of a cow, it means that no dairy was used in it's production. Possible cross contamination may occur if the same machinery is used to process something dairy, and something dairy free. Of course the machinery is given a thorough scrubbing between being used for different things (as required by hygiene regulations) but there is always ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

[Guest guest]

>How about having a folder (on the messageboard - is there one? If so I

>must be missing out!) called " Important Information " or something and

>include standard definitions so that newbie veg's can refer to it easily??

 

Maybe a vegan FAQ might be a good idea, not sure about doing folders on the

web site though, because you have to click on the anonymous link on the

right and get a very boring file listing. If I ever get around to

seriously putting together a group web site it can go on that.

 

As for what is suitable there are three key sources :-

 

Vegan Shopper - Small purple book published by the Vegan Society listing

what is vegan.

 

http://www.isitveggie.com/ - web site similar to above which marks products

for both octo-lacto and lacto vegetarian and vegan suitability.

 

http://realfood.redblackandgreen.net/isitvegan/intro.html - like the above

but laid out differently and only lists vegan products. Probably more up

to date too. You can also access it at http://www.isitvegan.info/ if you

like annoying intros

 

Of course ingredients change with amazing regularity and so what is vegan

today might not be tomorrow so none of the above should be a substitute for

checking labels. And of course labels can be misleading and inconclusive

so it all comes down to a judgment call in the end, something you would

hope to improve on with more experience.

 

Remember that it is almost impossible to be truly vegan in this society,

any many of things may contain something animal derived without you

realizing it (maybe your computer has some glue in it that is not vegan?)

so the best you can do is to do you best. You will make mistakes from time

to time that you could not have foreseen (Linda McCartney stuff springs to

mind, new vegans would expect it to be suitable and the ingredients for

several of those items look vegan so I'm sure a lot of people will be

caught out by that) so just learn from them and don't get too worked up

about it.

 

Michael

[Guest guest]

Brilliant Michael - many thanks indeed - very useful!!

 

Sure - I accept it is not always easy to 'get it right' and we can only

improve by experience - I will try and not get to 'obsessive' about it (

 

 

Mavreela [nec.lists]

05 November 2002 23:35

 

RE: Sainsburys

 

 

 

As for what is suitable there are three key sources :-

 

Vegan Shopper - Small purple book published by the Vegan Society listing

what is vegan.

 

http://www.isitveggie.com/ - web site

 

http://realfood.redblackandgreen.net/isitvegan/intro.html - like the above

 

Michael

 

 

~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 23:22:55 -0000, " Angie Wright "

<angiewright wrote:

 

>They only care about Kosher or allergy sufferers They are not bothered

>about vegans . After all Sainsbury has dairy herds and is involved

>directly in the veal trade . A greedy cruel bastard really

 

I think it's a bit unfair to single out Sainsbury's for criticism when

all supermarkets are pretty much as bad as each other. Clearly the

Co-Op are the best as they label whether or not both food and non-food

items are vegan. Sainsbury's are at least trying to label food

appropriately - try finding " suitable for vegans " labels on Tesco or

Safeway own-brand products! I can't comment on Waitrose as we boycott

them for a couple of reasons.

 

Remember you can always get food delivered to your house as long as

you don't mind them choosing the items for you and are happy to pay

the delivery fee (which is sometimes waived). I tend to find, however,

that too many fresh items so delivered are best before " tomorrow " .

 

Chris W

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:55:06 -0000, " simonpjones "

<simonpjones wrote:

 

>If they stocked vegan products in one section it would it would make it

>easier to shop there.

 

They only make a token effort at putting vegetarian products together,

so we've got no chance. Basically, other than those specifically

targeting our market, businesses which are interested in being

vegan-friendly are few and far between. Hopefully it'll change in the

future, but for now there are too few of us for them to be bothered.

 

Chris W

[Guest guest]

>If they stocked vegan products in one section it would it would make it

>easier to shop there.

 

You mean like Heinz baked beans on one side of the store with the carrots

and toilet paper, and the Crosse & Blackwell baked beans on the other side

with the waxed apples and the salt & vinegar crisps?

 

The fact is the line between what is and is not vegan is somewhat blurred

because where people draw the line differs slightly, but that is enough to

confuse the issue. Some people wouldn't by from certain manufacturers

regardless of the product suitability for example.

 

Additionally there is the fact that Sainsbury's (or any other supermarket)

are not aimed at vegans, why would they want to do that?

 

And of course if they did decide to start having special vegan sections, or

even vegan stores, then everyone will round on them for trying to put

health food stores out of business.

 

And even health food stores mix together the vegan and the vegetarian

products (and some even mix with organic meats). If thy can't do it what

point is there in supermarkets doing it.

 

Michael

[Guest guest]

for allergy sufferers there is a risk of death leading to their legal liability ... ie loss of money...

 

Kosher is down to huge pressure from local/national Jewish groups... which is fair enough but they have a far greater lobby than we do...

 

so either death or disrespect to a huge organised religion ....

 

so do Sainsburys put veganism in the same boat as vegetarianism? ... a mere diet... that cannot be offended? (let's face it vegetarians can't really be offended ... when they say they don't eat meat and they eat, say, jelly babies... or non-veg rennet cheese ... and wear leather shoes...)

 

if they treat it like a diet ... and not a (potentially deeply offendable) way of life ... then they will it not matter to them where they place their food...

 

 

 

Angie Wright [angiewright]

They only care about Kosher or allergy sufferers They are not bothered about vegans . After all Sainsbury has dairy herds and is involved directly in the veal trade . A greedy cruel bastard really

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

like nesslay...

 

 

 

Mavreela [nec.lists] The fact is the line between what is and is not vegan is somewhat blurred because where people draw the line differs slightly, but that is enough to confuse the issue. Some people wouldn't by from certain manufacturers regardless of the product suitability for example.

[Guest guest]

I agree with the importance of considering nut allergy and other serious food allergies, it's a life and death issue, so no argument there.

 

But how many really truly Orthodox strict Kosher Jews are there in the UK, any idea?

While there are most likely more Jews than vegans in Britain, I would guess that a great many of them are not practising Jews and are only Jewish by birth, and are not strict about keeping Kosher laws. A Jewish vegetarian friend of mine was ostracised by her father for about 9 years, the reason? She had a son and refused to have him genitally mutilated, she considered it cruel. She has little interest in sticking to the rules of Judaism as far as I can see (I agree with her, although I was shocked to see that she bought some friend's children dead animal burgers the other day at the bonfire party, even though I expected that they might have been persuaded to try the vegan ones we had supplied, so she is obviously not offended by meat), the same with an American vegan Jewish-by-birth friend, who is an avowed atheist, and also anti-circumcision. I think it's quite common to be born Jewish but not to see much sense in some of the rules, from my experience of most Jews I have met.

 

I am sure that many "mere vegetarians" are quite offended by dead bodies in the freezer/fridge next to their LindaMc sausages, so if we add their numbers to the vegans who are offended, we will probably get a larger group than the number of Orthodox Jews who are offended by putting Kosher and non-Kosher foods close together.

 

I would venture that the only reason that the supermarkets consider the feelings of Jews more than veg*ns is because they have their act together better than we do, with their better organised lobby groups, so the supermarket chiefs THINK they are a bigger group to risk offending. If more of us joined the Vegan Society, we would look like as big a lobby as we are (about 1/4 milliion)!

 

Veganism is more important than any other organised religion! It is on a level with religion for many of us, but sadly we are not as good at being organised, doing things together, supporting one another in our local area, the way people do within their church/synagogue/temple. I think veganism is something of a dis-organised religion!

 

Lesley

 

 

 

Oliver Slay [oliver]07 November 2002 12:51 Subject: RE: Sainsburys

for allergy sufferers there is a risk of death leading to their legal liability ... ie loss of money...

 

Kosher is down to huge pressure from local/national Jewish groups... which is fair enough but they have a far greater lobby than we do...

 

so either death or disrespect to a huge organised religion ....

 

so do Sainsburys put veganism in the same boat as vegetarianism? ... a mere diet... that cannot be offended? (let's face it vegetarians can't really be offended ... when they say they don't eat meat and they eat, say, jelly babies... or non-veg rennet cheese ... and wear leather shoes...)

 

if they treat it like a diet ... and not a (potentially deeply offendable) way of life ... then they will it not matter to them where they place their food...

 

 

 

Angie Wright [angiewright]

They only care about Kosher or allergy sufferers They are not bothered about vegans . After all Sainsbury has dairy herds and is involved directly in the veal trade . A greedy cruel bastard really

 

 

~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

[Guest guest]

it's not about how many Kosher Jews there are in Britain ... but how much money they have and how big the lobby is ...

 

the American Jewish lobby managed to remove pig derived ingredients from Coca Cola after the Third World War... that's how much influence they had there...

 

we don't have the same monetary power ... so why should they listen to us...?

 

 

 

Lesley Dove [Lesley]

 

But how many really truly Orthodox strict Kosher Jews are there in the UK, any idea?

While there are most likely more Jews than vegans in Britain, I would guess that a great many of them are not practising Jews and are only Jewish by birth, and are not strict about keeping Kosher laws. A Jewish vegetarian friend of mine was ostracised by her father for about 9 years, the reason? She had a son and refused to have him genitally mutilated, she considered it cruel. She has little interest in sticking to the rules of Judaism as far as I can see (I agree with her, although I was shocked to see that she bought some friend's children dead animal burgers the other day at the bonfire party, even though I expected that they might have been persuaded to try the vegan ones we had supplied, so she is obviously not offended by meat), the same with an American vegan Jewish-by-birth friend, who is an avowed atheist, and also anti-circumcision. I think it's quite common to be born Jewish but not to see much sense in some of the rules, from my experience of most Jews I have met.

[Guest guest]

at least one with a respectful attitude to life... (generally speaking)

 

and not one that propounds slicing the throats of sheep, birds or toads...

 

 

 

Lesley Dove [Lesley]

 

I think veganism is something of a dis-organised religion!

 

Lesley

[Guest guest]

>If more of us joined the Vegan Society, we would look like as big a lobby

>as we are (about 1/4 milliion)!

 

Why should we join them, they are a family hating self interested bunch who

shout at children and won't even spend a few minutes talking to their

members. At least that's what I heard.

 

Michael

[Guest guest]

then you should choose who you listen to more carefully ;0

 

, Mavreela <nec.lists@m...> wrote:

>

> >If more of us joined the Vegan Society, we would look like as big

a lobby

> >as we are (about 1/4 milliion)!

>

> Why should we join them, they are a family hating self interested

bunch who

> shout at children and won't even spend a few minutes talking to

their

> members. At least that's what I heard.

>

> Michael

[Guest guest]

Dammit, if they had left the pig ingredients in I would have the willpower to avoid that rubbish!

 

But seriously I'm grateful, for the sake of the pigs.

 

Lesley

 

 

Oliver Slay [oliver]07 November 2002 15:37 Subject: RE: Sainsburys

it's not about how many Kosher Jews there are in Britain ... but how much money they have and how big the lobby is ...

 

the American Jewish lobby managed to remove pig derived ingredients from Coca Cola after the Third World War... that's how much influence they had there...

 

we don't have the same monetary power ... so why should they listen to us...?

 

 

 

Lesley Dove [Lesley]

 

But how many really truly Orthodox strict Kosher Jews are there in the UK, any idea?

While there are most likely more Jews than vegans in Britain, I would guess that a great many of them are not practising Jews and are only Jewish by birth, and are not strict about keeping Kosher laws. A Jewish vegetarian friend of mine was ostracised by her father for about 9 years, the reason? She had a son and refused to have him genitally mutilated, she considered it cruel. She has little interest in sticking to the rules of Judaism as far as I can see (I agree with her, although I was shocked to see that she bought some friend's children dead animal burgers the other day at the bonfire party, even though I expected that they might have been persuaded to try the vegan ones we had supplied, so she is obviously not offended by meat), the same with an American vegan Jewish-by-birth friend, who is an avowed atheist, and also anti-circumcision. I think it's quite common to be born Jewish but not to see much sense in some of the rules, from my experience of most Jews I have met. ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

[Guest guest]

Yes, a few of their members may well be that way, and not have the greatest of interpersonal skills at dealing with families, but I think they are the minority among the membership, and I'm sticking with the Vegan Society because I think they can be turned around to be a more family-friendly organisation, in fact I think it is very important for parents with young children to stay as members and get involved, I believe that the only way they will turn around the almost static membership figures and gain more mainstream recognition is by being more orientated towards the families. And at least they haven't kicked me out, well not yet anyway.

 

 

I also have a friend who has suggested to them that she wants them to set up a mothers and babies section, and she is happy to be involved in that, so she is sticking with them like me and trying to bring about change.

 

I met a vegan today who was working at the local health food shop, he seemed to know quite a few vegans in the area but no vegan families, it's as if they hide away! He also thought that a lot of vegans when they have children do not bring them up vegan, I said that I know a lot who do their best to do it, and if there are many who do not, them it shows that the Vegan Society has not got the message across successfully that it is the right thing and quite possible. He seemed to think it must be too difficult with school, but they have to respect beliefs and equal opportunities. I pointed out that the worst bit as a vegan family was being isolated from many other vegans, in comparison to the time before I had children, even though at this time in life I would say need vegan friends more than before, because we need auntie and uncle figures for our family.

 

Lesley

 

 

Mavreela [nec.lists]07 November 2002 16:18 Subject: RE: Sainsburys>If more of us joined the Vegan Society, we would look like as big a lobby >as we are (about 1/4 milliion)!Why should we join them, they are a family hating self interested bunch who shout at children and won't even spend a few minutes talking to their members. At least that's what I heard.Michael~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

[Guest guest]

I'm not aware of Tesco's /Safeway owners having Dairy/veal herds . I'm annoyed with Sainsbury because they admit that they are interested in Kosher/GM free but not in the vegetarian situation

 

Food being delivered to my house does not make them think about not offending veggies by mixing icecream and bodies in the same freezer . I will criticise the other supermarkets when I see them doing the same

 

The co-op doesn't sell vegan icecream at all (in mine ). So I criticise them for that .It depends what the issue is as to which I criticise

 

I used to boycott Waitrose because it is John Lewis but they have stopped their bird shooting week ends so I can't think of a reason now

 

 

Chris W [chrisw] 07 November 2002 08:13 Subject: Re: SainsburysOn Tue, 5 Nov 2002 23:22:55 -0000, "Angie Wright"<angiewright wrote:>They only care about Kosher or allergy sufferers They are not bothered>about vegans . After all Sainsbury has dairy herds and is involved>directly in the veal trade . A greedy cruel bastard really I think it's a bit unfair to single out Sainsbury's for criticism whenall supermarkets are pretty much as bad as each other. Clearly theCo-Op are the best as they label whether or not both food and non-fooditems are vegan. Sainsbury's are at least trying to label foodappropriately - try finding "suitable for vegans" labels on Tesco orSafeway own-brand products! I can't comment on Waitrose as we boycottthem for a couple of reasons.Remember you can always get food delivered to your house as long asyou don't mind them choosing the items for you and are happy to paythe delivery fee (which is sometimes waived). I tend to find, however,that too many fresh items so delivered are best before "tomorrow".Chris W~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

[Guest guest]

Exactly ,and not next to a body !!! It shows lack of thought for our finer feelings and I see it as a deliberate act to cause offence

 

Or else they are thick !

 

 

simonpjones [simonpjones] 08 November 2002 10:55 Subject: Re: Sainsburys-"Chris W" <chriswThursday, November 07, 2002 8:13 AMRe: Sainsburys> On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 23:22:55 -0000, "Angie Wright"> <angiewright wrote:>< After all Sainsbury has dairy herds and is involved> >directly in the veal trade . A greedy cruel bastard really.>If they stocked vegan products in one section it would it would make iteasier to shop there.Simon>~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

[Guest guest]

I agree with the points you mention Lesley . We need to pull together and complain more

 

 

Lesley Dove [Lesley] 07 November 2002 14:25 Subject: RE: Sainsburys

 

 

 

I am sure that many "mere vegetarians" are quite offended by dead bodies in the freezer/fridge next to their LindaMc sausages, so if we add their numbers to the vegans who are offended, we will probably get a larger group than the number of Orthodox Jews who are offended by putting Kosher and non-Kosher foods close together.

 

I would venture that the only reason that the supermarkets consider the feelings of Jews more than veg*ns is because they have their act together better than we do, with their better organised lobby groups, so the supermarket chiefs THINK they are a bigger group to risk offending. If more of us joined the Vegan Society, we would look like as big a lobby as we are (about 1/4 milliion)!

 

Veganism is more important than any other organised religion! It is on a level with religion for many of us, but sadly we are not as good at being organised, doing things together, supporting one another in our local area, the way people do within their church/synagogue/temple. I think veganism is something of a dis-organised religion!

 

Lesley

 

 

 

Oliver Slay [oliver]07 November 2002 12:51 Subject: RE: Sainsburys

for allergy sufferers there is a risk of death leading to their legal liability ... ie loss of money...

 

Kosher is down to huge pressure from local/national Jewish groups... which is fair enough but they have a far greater lobby than we do...

 

so either death or disrespect to a huge organised religion ....

 

so do Sainsburys put veganism in the same boat as vegetarianism? ... a mere diet... that cannot be offended? (let's face it vegetarians can't really be offended ... when they say they don't eat meat and they eat, say, jelly babies... or non-veg rennet cheese ... and wear leather shoes...)

 

if they treat it like a diet ... and not a (potentially deeply offendable) way of life ... then they will it not matter to them where they place their food...

 

 

 

Angie Wright [angiewright]

They only care about Kosher or allergy sufferers They are not bothered about vegans . After all Sainsbury has dairy herds and is involved directly in the veal trade . A greedy cruel bastard really

 

 

~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

[Guest guest]

Then we need to educate them ---- and therefore join first

 

 

Mavreela [nec.lists] 07 November 2002 16:18 Subject: RE: SainsburysWhy should we join them, they are a family hating self interested bunch who shout at children and won't even spend a few minutes talking to their members. At least that's what I heard.Michael

 

 

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