Public opinion has affected me

[Guest guest]

, Oliver Slay <oliver@l...> wrote:

> i don't find talking about animal suffering very useful when

talking to

> meat-eaters... simply because animals suffering is so so distant

from their

> small lives... they can't empathise at all...

 

Yeah, I agree. Their lives aren't necessarily small though. They just

don't think in the same way. To make them understand I once explained

to them that to me the existence of factory and intensive farms was

like the holocaust of the jews in the world war II. I then said that

to me, shooting a jew and shooting a cow was the same.

 

They all looked at me with wild staring eyes, and critised me for

comparing the two.

 

I said it was irrelevant, that it was WRONG. I think they still

couldn't understand the concept. I think thats because they just want

to avoid thinking about the nastiness of reality.

 

J

[Guest guest]

, " pctalking " <pctalking@h...> wrote:

> Don't worry Jules...you just ain't vegan yet...thats it...people

who

> relapse never got the point in the first place. I never knew any

> vegans at all when I became vegan. I just got the point, bought the

> animal free shopper, and then took it from there.

>

> Maybe one day, when you are big enough to reason and make your own

> choices, you'll realise what a silly boy you've been.

 

> Pr D.C.Talking

 

well pr, I'm big enough to know what the word 'patronising' means.

[Guest guest]

, " Janey " <janey@p...> wrote:

> I agree Lesley. I get even stronger if people give me any

pressure.

 

The same usually goes for me.

But

> nothing or nobody would make me eat meat or dairy.

>

Nobody did, I did it myself. Its cured me of fundamentalism and

fanaticism.

 

> Janey

> x

[Guest guest]

What I don't understand is how when people are made aware of what

they are eating, they carry on eating it. What kind of person does

this make them? To me this gives me the right to be abusive to them,

but I suppose that that doesn't help much.

 

, " Janey " <janey@p...> wrote:

> Yes, I do this! My colleague always eats ham sandwiches and I

always call

> them dead pig sandwiches. I now have the Vegan Society membership

renewal

> postcard on my office wall - the one with the poor calf with the

slogan

> *Live A Cruelty Free Life - Go Vegan!*. My colleague complained

that the

> picture upset her (guilty conscience???!) and she wanted me to take

it down,

> but I refused! I get upset when she eats dead pig sandwiches so I

guess

> we're quits. Anyway, lots of my colleagues see my Vegan Society

postcard so

> that's good!

>

> Also my colleague used to put her sandwich wrappers in the bin by

my desk.

> I told her the other day that if her sandwiches were dead pig then

she was

> to put her wrapper in someone else's bin. It worked too!

>

> Janey

> x

>

>

>

> > the fact that meat is called meat makes it even further from

people's

> minds

> > what it actually is .... thus i am often calling pork ... dead

pig ... and

> > beef is dead cow ... mincemeat or burgers are basically mashed

up cows

> ...

> Oliver

[Guest guest]

I think forgiveness is an important quality. I'm not going to feel

guilty about having eaten that egg (I had some cheese later that day

as well), I'm staying vegan till the day I die.

 

Knowledge is power, but too much knowledge can mess one up, I think.

This wouldn't be the case if this wasn't such a grim world.

 

, " Janey " <janey@p...> wrote:

> I like your honesty Jules and I'm glad you could share this with us.

> Although this personally wouldn't happen to me - the longer I've

been vegan

> the stronger and more determined I've become - I can understand your

> reasons. I hope you find the answers to the questions you're asking

> yourself and become a vegan again soon. Once you've read more

about animal

> cruelty and just how bad animal meats and products are for you (and

how much

> cholesterol is in eggs as well!!!) you'll soon be glad that you're

not a

> vegetarian anymore! There's no pressure though. Just don't let

people

> bully you into not being a vegan. If that was the case I guess a

lot of us

> on this list wouldn't be vegans anymore either! I'm glad that I

have a lot

> of knowledge which I've built up on animal issues and if anyone

starts

> criticising me for being a vegan it all comes pouring out and they

wish they

> hadn't mention it! Knowledge is power! Knowledge also saves

animals lives!

>

> Good luck.

>

> Janey

> x

>

>

>

> -

> " djules_75 " <djules_75>

>

> Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:18 AM

> Public opinion has affected me

>

>

> > Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia,

> > peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper'

> > food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my

> > blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I

think

> > I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too

> > hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to

> > myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like,

and

> > to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-

eaters,

> > because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. I'm

staying

> > vegetarian for a while, until I know what is wrong with me, in the

> > meantime I'm going to read a few more books on nutrition and

learn a

> > few recipes, and maybe think about getting a tatoo for when I go

> > vegan again, I don't know. I'm just letting you know because I'm

> > staying on this list, and the questionnaire when one signs up asks

> > one whether one is vegan or not.

> >

> > Jules

> >

> >

> >

> > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,

> > there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

> > ---------------------------

> > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?

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> >

[Guest guest]

I think I was just detached from reality. It is a frightening

deprevity, having eaten soem dairy products again I had already

started to hate life, fuck knows how much people who are omnivores

hate life.

 

 

, " vegicate1 " <simonpjones@o...> wrote:

> ---Eating animals,eggs and such, is the sort of things you would

eat

> only if you suddenly found yourself cut off from civilisation,in

the

> wild some where,or when the war-mongers of this world start

destoying

> the the health message of plant-foods and make excuses for killing,

> because they are destoying their own selfs through destoying animal

> life and eating them, " it's a frighting depravity "

>

> I glad I was awakened to this fact!

> SP.

>

>

>

>

>

> In , " slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote:

> > Why don't you give your ass a rest, Leslie?

> >

> >

> > > " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...>

> > >

> > >

> > >RE: Public opinion has affected me

> > >Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:31:33 +0100

> > >

> > >That's a little harsh from you, since you ate actual dead animal

> bits when

> > >you got pissed once, after being vegan. I am pretty sad and

> appalled that

> > >Jules would bow to peer pressure, but so did you so that one

time

> with your

> > >animal eating friends, so maybe you should understand him!

> > >Being stubborn has its advantages, NO WAY would I have bowed to

> the peer

> > >pressure of meat-eating friends even when I did mix with such

> people. In

> > >fact any pressure from them to conform just made me even more

> determined to

> > >stay vegan, because I believed it was right!

> > >

> > >Lesley

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >slg edith [slgedith@h...]

> > >18 April 2002 14:02

> > >

> > >Re: Public opinion has affected me

> > >

> > >

> > >Sad bastard.

> > >

> > >

> > > > " djules_75 " <djules_75>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Public opinion has affected me

> > > >Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:18:33 -0000

> > > >

> > > >Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of

paranoia,

> > > >peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should

> eat 'proper'

> > > >food, I also read from two sources that according to

scientists

> my

> > > >blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy.

I

> think

> > > >I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and

> too

> > > >hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to

> > > >myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was

> like, and

> > > >to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-

> eaters,

> > > >because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them.

> > >

> > >

> > >_______________

> > >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

> > >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > >Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,

> > >there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

> > >---------------------------

> > >Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?

> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > >Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>

> > >Un: send a blank message to -

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I wish more people were understanding. It would avoid confrontation

more. I still don't know how to deal with others, I'm learning all

the time, I'm so used to being oppsoite from everyone else I'm

forgetting what it means to be human.

 

Jules

 

, " Janey " <janey@p...> wrote:

> I'm not *sad* and *appalled*. Its all part of learning and perhaps

this

> will help Jules to understand veganism and how to deal with others

a bit

> more now.

>

> Janey

> x

>

> <snipped>

> < I am pretty sad and appalled that

> > Jules would bow to peer pressure, >

> > Lesley

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

, " Janey " <janey@p...> wrote:

> Don't listen to him Jules!!!

 

Well I'm not taking what he said as an insult, or taking it very

seriously.

 

>

> Edith proved that you can be a vegan and then go out and eat meat,

but

> pctalking likes her and I'm sure he still considers her a vegan!

Or maybe

> he doesn't consider her a vegan. Who cares?!

>

> I'm sure you'll find your feet eventually and become a vegan again.

> Nobody's perfect. Glad you could share it with us.

>

> Janey

> x

>

>

>

> > Don't worry Jules...you just ain't vegan yet...thats it...people

who

> > relapse never got the point in the first place. I never knew any

> > vegans at all when I became vegan. I just got the point, bought

the

> > animal free shopper, and then took it from there.

> >

> > Maybe one day, when you are big enough to reason and make your own

> > choices, you'll realise what a silly boy you've been.

[Guest guest]

, Mavreela <nec.lists@m...> wrote:

>

> >I like your honesty Jules and I'm glad you could share this with

us.

 

Yeah but I feel like an idiot. I'm glad I told the group though.

 

>

> Quite. People should be able to feel free to admit things like

that here,

> this is not some kind of vegan police state but meant to be a

supportive

> group (ha ha?). People stop being vegan, or have lapses, for

various

> reasons and it would be nice if they could feel they could come

here for help.

>

> Michael

[Guest guest]

I think most vegans are by nature independant minded, you have to be!

This doesn't mean we don't need any support. How can I avoid mixing

with meat eaters when they make up almost all of the people I know? I

can avoid pressure from exterior sources, but it will always be

there.

 

, " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

>

> I don't understand how anyone can lapse so easily, just because of

a load of

> idiots in their real life, when they know that it is most likely

only a

> matter of time before they will find some vegan (or at least

vegetarians who

> are supportive of veganism) real-life friends, and meanwhile there

is the

> online vegan community, which is certainly better than nothing.

> It's not as if it is hard for single childless people like Jules to

find

> ways to meet up with other real-life vegans, to consider as his

real peers.

> I stay vegan despite it isolating me from other mums around here,

so no peer

> group for me. I'd rather not have a peer group than have one that

tries to

> destroy my veganism (not that they would succeed!). Even when I was

in nurse

> training, long before I was a mum, I was a bit of a loner in my

training

> group, didn't mix with them much or consider them my peers, but

preferred in

> my own time to get involved in the AR group in Reading and London

Vegans and

> Young Vegetarians. I was always off to London or Reading (not too

difficult

> on the train from Bracknell, where I lived at the time).

> I did recently go a couple of times to a local mums and toddlers

group with

> Lucy, it was OK, but haven't met any other vegans or vegetarians

there.

> Anyway I will probably concentrate more on making friends once we

have moved

> (Ashford/Staines/Feltham area). Pretty much given up on Harrow. I

hate not

> having many friends because of my beliefs, and because the

responsibility of

> the kids prevents me from getting out to groups the way I did

before, so I

> am longing for the freedom to join veg/AR groups and be more

involved in the

> whole scene again once the kids are older.

> There is very likely much more opportunity for vegan/veggie

students like

> Jules to find like-minded peers than there is for vegan mums like

me (all

> the other veg families who are really keen to do things live so far

away so

> we rarely meet up), so he should think himself lucky!

> Sorry feeling a bit more isolated and depressed than usual as I

have had one

> or other of the kids off school with conjunctivitis all week. Can't

go out

> much as it is quite contagious, although they seem quite untroubled

by it

> really, and it looks worse than it feels for them.

> My recommendation to Jules would be to surround himself by like-

minded

> friends as much as he can in his free time, should be easy for a

young

> person with no family responsibilities. If he wants help, he could

start by

> taking this advice on board! Once he does this, the toxic influence

of his

> college relationships will mean less to him.

>

> Lesley

>

>

>

> Mavreela [nec.lists@m...]

> 19 April 2002 09:49

>

> Re: Public opinion has affected me

>

>

>

> >I like your honesty Jules and I'm glad you could share this with

us.

>

> Quite. People should be able to feel free to admit things like

that here,

> this is not some kind of vegan police state but meant to be a

supportive

> group (ha ha?). People stop being vegan, or have lapses, for

various

> reasons and it would be nice if they could feel they could come

here for

> help.

>

> Michael

>

>

>

> ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,

> there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

> ---------------------------

> Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>

> Un: send a blank message to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nah its not that, its that I'm surrounded by wierdos, conservatives

and people who don't like me, and they rub off on me, I'm just going

to leave home after my exams.

 

, " l_il_pixie " <chris25soeast@h...> wrote:

> Jules doesn't sound like he's old enough to be able to shrug off

> pressure from others, especially when some of that pressure is

coming

> from someone older and who he has been led to believe is wiser. I

> know that in the early days of my veganism, I had a few lapses too -

 

> cheese sandwiches and yoghurts (but not together, coz that'd be

> wierd.) Maybe he'll come to realise, like me, that beliefs are

worth

> having. When I get a cold, despite a colleague blaming it on the

lack

> of meat in my diet, I know that I'm no more unhealthy than I was

all

> those years ago when (I can hardly bear to write this!!!) I ate

meat.

> I'm actually better off being vegan, especially as I have an

> intolerance to milk which causes severe stomach cramps (how long

have

> we been told we should drink more milk?) Jules shouldn't listen to

> other people, he should live his life the way he wants to live it.

If

> he decides veganism isn't for him regardless of what other people

> say, then that's his decision, but he mustn't let others make that

> decision for him.

>

> Chris x

>

> , " djules_75 " <djules_75> wrote:

> > Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia,

> > peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should

eat 'proper'

> > food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists

my

> > blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I

> think

> > I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and

too

> > hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to

> > myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like,

> and

> > to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-

> eaters,

> > because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. I'm

> staying

> > vegetarian for a while, until I know what is wrong with me, in

the

> > meantime I'm going to read a few more books on nutrition and

learn

> a

> > few recipes, and maybe think about getting a tatoo for when I go

> > vegan again, I don't know. I'm just letting you know because I'm

> > staying on this list, and the questionnaire when one signs up

asks

> > one whether one is vegan or not.

> >

> > Jules

[Guest guest]

There is no connection between eggs and

menstrual fluid ! A human egg is produced on day 14 and blood is shed on

days 1-5. menstruation is clearing out the” nest “ ready to start

building a new “ nest “. You could compare it to an aborted foetus maybe

if it was fertilised ?

 

-----Original

Message-----

Oliver Slay

[oliver]

18 April 2002 15:23

' '

RE: Public

opinion has affected me

 

i don't find talking about

animal suffering very useful when talking to

meat-eaters... simply because animals

suffering is so so distant from their

small lives... they can't empathise at

all...

 

much better to find out exactly what it is they

are eating ... and put it in

human terms...

 

eggs - not sure about this ... but it's like

menstrual fluids... and

after-birth ...? .... all wrapped up in a shell

.... most adult humans feel

sick when you talk about fried chicken

menstruation ...

 

bovine mammary excretions.... BME ... apparently

you can't get BSE from BME

....

 

the fact that meat is called meat makes it even

further from people's minds

what it actually is .... thus i am often calling

pork ... dead pig ... and

beef is dead cow ... mincemeat or burgers

are basically mashed up cows ...

 

i think it brings the idea of what 'meat' actually

is closer to people's

minds... some people remain oblivious ...

some people throw up ... it's

not a gender thing .. and it's not an age thing

....

 

at least vegetables can be called vegetables,

we're not guilty... (that's a

good reply... to killing plants)

 

a carrot's a carrot ... a potato's a potato ...

but ground up mutilated dead

cow removed from its extended family and fed on

dead sheep and growth

hormone.... now that's called beef!

 

 

 

 

>

> Lesley Dove

[Lesley]

> Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:40 AM

>

> RE: Public opinion has

affected me

>

>

>

> Just because he is a teacher and just because

the animal

> product eaters are

> the majority, doesn't mean they are right. He

had no right to

> tell you that

> vegan food is not proper food, that is

offensive and I would

> be most likely

> to complain about him pushing his views onto

me if I were

> you! Plenty of

> people would complain to the head if a

teacher was pushing

> veganism at the

> pupils after all, so likewise we should

complain if

> animal-eating is pushed

> at us by someone in a position of authority,

such as a

> teacher. Play them at

> their own game and don't give in.

> Look at some pictures of how the chickens

suffer if you need

> a reminder of

> why you went vegan.

> The only thing that is wrong with you is a

lack of vegan peer

> group in your

> real life, I reckon.

> That is easy enough for a single childless

person to remedy,

> unless you

> really live out in the sticks I would have

thought. I always

> mixed with lots

> of vegans before I had kids, now it is harder

to meet up, but I remain

> strong in my veganism, despite loneliness.

> Don't bow to peer pressure, when you know

that they are

> wrong, and that is

> weak.

> All you have proved is that they cannot take

you and your

> ethics seriously

> from now on, and you surely don't want that.

You will end up

> hating the

> animal eaters even more because you will

blame them for

> stopping you being

> true to yourself. Take full responsibility

for your lapse.

> You will get very

> sick if you eat mainly animal products

regardless of your

> blood group, even

> many animal eaters eat mostly vegan food, if

you actually

> look at what they

> eat, the meat and dairy only make up a small

part, otherwise

> they get ill.

> Even experts advocating meat and dairy do not

generally

> advocate it in large

> amounts these days.

>

> Lesley

>

>

>

> djules_75 [djules_75]

> 18 April 2002 11:19

>

> Public opinion has

affected me

>

>

> Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today,

because of paranoia,

> peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me

I should eat 'proper'

> food, I also read from two sources that

according to scientists my

> blood group (0) means I should be eating

mainly meat + dairy. I think

> I've been getting a bit religious about

veganism recently, and too

> hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat

the egg to prove to

> myself that I still have the choice, and to

see what it was like, and

> to throw off any hatred that I still keep

inside against meat-eaters,

> because I sometimes find it very hard to live

with them. I'm staying

> vegetarian for a while, until I know what is

wrong with me, in the

> meantime I'm going to read a few more books

on nutrition and learn a

> few recipes, and maybe think about getting a

tatoo for when I go

> vegan again, I don't know. I'm just letting

you know because I'm

> staying on this list, and the questionnaire

when one signs up asks

> one whether one is vegan or not.

>

> Jules

>

>

>

> ~~ info

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Please remember that the above is only the

opinion of the author,

> there may be another side to the story you

have not heard.

>

---------------------------

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know? Was it snipped?

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>

>

[Guest guest]

Well said Jules

-----Original

Message-----

djules_75

[djules_75]

19 April 2002 20:40

 

Re: Public

opinion has affected me

 

,

" slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote:

> Sad bastard.

 

..

 

Do you deny that you're an abusive,

uncompassionate, unsympathetic

vegan? I think you are, you're no less of a

hypocrite than me.

 

 

 

 

~~ info

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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of the author,

there may be another side to the story you have

not heard.

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[Guest guest]

Losing hair could be normal, my husband started losing his while still in

his teens!

 

Lesley

 

 

 

djules_75 [djules_75]

19 April 2002 20:48

 

Re: Public opinion has affected me

 

 

, " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

> That's a little harsh from you, since you ate actual dead animal

bits when

> you got pissed once, after being vegan. I am pretty sad and

appalled that

> Jules would bow to peer pressure,

 

It wasn't just peer pressure, it was lots of other things.

 

Mainly my problem was that I was getting too religious about my

veganism, causing me to hate everyone who wasn't vegan, it was

turnoing me into a prime time dickhead, I was losing hair, and

getting fanatical and scared of meat-eaters.

 

Peer pressure was the wrong thing to call it.

 

 

 

 

 

~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,

there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

---------------------------

Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?

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[Guest guest]

When I went veggie then vegan I just went out and got involved in the right

groups, I dunno what else to advise, as I didn't find it too hard to do that

and meet the right sort of people I wanted in my life. I just made it a

priority over mixing with animal-eaters. I do find it harder now with the

limitations of a family though.

 

Here is a link for groups in your area, hope this helps, and you find

friends (maybe even a girlfriend) and worthwhile activities to get involved

in.

This is the Veggies listing for Kent and there are a few contacts in and

near Canterbury, so maybe you have not been looking in the right places for

like-minded people.

 

http://www.veggies.org.uk/acd/europe/UK/england/countyk.htm

 

Lesley

 

 

 

djules_75 [djules_75]

19 April 2002 21:35

 

Re: Public opinion has affected me

 

 

I think most vegans are by nature independant minded, you have to be!

This doesn't mean we don't need any support. How can I avoid mixing

with meat eaters when they make up almost all of the people I know? I

can avoid pressure from exterior sources, but it will always be

there.

 

, " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

>

> I don't understand how anyone can lapse so easily, just because of

a load of

> idiots in their real life, when they know that it is most likely

only a

> matter of time before they will find some vegan (or at least

vegetarians who

> are supportive of veganism) real-life friends, and meanwhile there

is the

> online vegan community, which is certainly better than nothing.

> It's not as if it is hard for single childless people like Jules to

find

> ways to meet up with other real-life vegans, to consider as his

real peers.

> I stay vegan despite it isolating me from other mums around here,

so no peer

> group for me. I'd rather not have a peer group than have one that

tries to

> destroy my veganism (not that they would succeed!). Even when I was

in nurse

> training, long before I was a mum, I was a bit of a loner in my

training

> group, didn't mix with them much or consider them my peers, but

preferred in

> my own time to get involved in the AR group in Reading and London

Vegans and

> Young Vegetarians. I was always off to London or Reading (not too

difficult

> on the train from Bracknell, where I lived at the time).

> I did recently go a couple of times to a local mums and toddlers

group with

> Lucy, it was OK, but haven't met any other vegans or vegetarians

there.

> Anyway I will probably concentrate more on making friends once we

have moved

> (Ashford/Staines/Feltham area). Pretty much given up on Harrow. I

hate not

> having many friends because of my beliefs, and because the

responsibility of

> the kids prevents me from getting out to groups the way I did

before, so I

> am longing for the freedom to join veg/AR groups and be more

involved in the

> whole scene again once the kids are older.

> There is very likely much more opportunity for vegan/veggie

students like

> Jules to find like-minded peers than there is for vegan mums like

me (all

> the other veg families who are really keen to do things live so far

away so

> we rarely meet up), so he should think himself lucky!

> Sorry feeling a bit more isolated and depressed than usual as I

have had one

> or other of the kids off school with conjunctivitis all week. Can't

go out

> much as it is quite contagious, although they seem quite untroubled

by it

> really, and it looks worse than it feels for them.

> My recommendation to Jules would be to surround himself by like-

minded

> friends as much as he can in his free time, should be easy for a

young

> person with no family responsibilities. If he wants help, he could

start by

> taking this advice on board! Once he does this, the toxic influence

of his

> college relationships will mean less to him.

>

> Lesley

>

>

>

> Mavreela [nec.lists@m...]

> 19 April 2002 09:49

>

> Re: Public opinion has affected me

>

>

>

> >I like your honesty Jules and I'm glad you could share this with

us.

>

> Quite. People should be able to feel free to admit things like

that here,

> this is not some kind of vegan police state but meant to be a

supportive

> group (ha ha?). People stop being vegan, or have lapses, for

various

> reasons and it would be nice if they could feel they could come

here for

> help.

>

> Michael

>

>

>

> ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,

> there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

> ---------------------------

> Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>

> Un: send a blank message to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ah thanks Les, I think I just haven't been trying hard enough to find

people, nevertheless it is a bad area for vegans I think, I'm also

quite shy and therefore crap at meeting new people, I'll try the

link though,

Cheers

Lots of

Jules

 

, " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

>

> When I went veggie then vegan I just went out and got involved in

the right

> groups, I dunno what else to advise, as I didn't find it too hard

to do that

> and meet the right sort of people I wanted in my life. I just made

it a

> priority over mixing with animal-eaters. I do find it harder now

with the

> limitations of a family though.

>

> Here is a link for groups in your area, hope this helps, and you

find

> friends (maybe even a girlfriend) and worthwhile activities to get

involved

> in.

> This is the Veggies listing for Kent and there are a few contacts

in and

> near Canterbury, so maybe you have not been looking in the right

places for

> like-minded people.

>

> http://www.veggies.org.uk/acd/europe/UK/england/countyk.htm

>

> Lesley

>

>

>

> djules_75 [djules_75]

> 19 April 2002 21:35

>

> Re: Public opinion has affected me

>

>

> I think most vegans are by nature independant minded, you have to

be!

> This doesn't mean we don't need any support. How can I avoid mixing

> with meat eaters when they make up almost all of the people I know?

I

> can avoid pressure from exterior sources, but it will always be

> there.

>

> , " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

> >

> > I don't understand how anyone can lapse so easily, just because of

> a load of

> > idiots in their real life, when they know that it is most likely

> only a

> > matter of time before they will find some vegan (or at least

> vegetarians who

> > are supportive of veganism) real-life friends, and meanwhile there

> is the

> > online vegan community, which is certainly better than nothing.

> > It's not as if it is hard for single childless people like Jules

to

> find

> > ways to meet up with other real-life vegans, to consider as his

> real peers.

> > I stay vegan despite it isolating me from other mums around here,

> so no peer

> > group for me. I'd rather not have a peer group than have one that

> tries to

> > destroy my veganism (not that they would succeed!). Even when I

was

> in nurse

> > training, long before I was a mum, I was a bit of a loner in my

> training

> > group, didn't mix with them much or consider them my peers, but

> preferred in

> > my own time to get involved in the AR group in Reading and London

> Vegans and

> > Young Vegetarians. I was always off to London or Reading (not too

> difficult

> > on the train from Bracknell, where I lived at the time).

> > I did recently go a couple of times to a local mums and toddlers

> group with

> > Lucy, it was OK, but haven't met any other vegans or vegetarians

> there.

> > Anyway I will probably concentrate more on making friends once we

> have moved

> > (Ashford/Staines/Feltham area). Pretty much given up on Harrow. I

> hate not

> > having many friends because of my beliefs, and because the

> responsibility of

> > the kids prevents me from getting out to groups the way I did

> before, so I

> > am longing for the freedom to join veg/AR groups and be more

> involved in the

> > whole scene again once the kids are older.

> > There is very likely much more opportunity for vegan/veggie

> students like

> > Jules to find like-minded peers than there is for vegan mums like

> me (all

> > the other veg families who are really keen to do things live so

far

> away so

> > we rarely meet up), so he should think himself lucky!

> > Sorry feeling a bit more isolated and depressed than usual as I

> have had one

> > or other of the kids off school with conjunctivitis all week.

Can't

> go out

> > much as it is quite contagious, although they seem quite

untroubled

> by it

> > really, and it looks worse than it feels for them.

> > My recommendation to Jules would be to surround himself by like-

> minded

> > friends as much as he can in his free time, should be easy for a

> young

> > person with no family responsibilities. If he wants help, he could

> start by

> > taking this advice on board! Once he does this, the toxic

influence

> of his

> > college relationships will mean less to him.

> >

> > Lesley

> >

> >

> >

> > Mavreela [nec.lists@m...]

> > 19 April 2002 09:49

> >

> > Re: Public opinion has affected me

> >

> >

> >

> > >I like your honesty Jules and I'm glad you could share this with

> us.

> >

> > Quite. People should be able to feel free to admit things like

> that here,

> > this is not some kind of vegan police state but meant to be a

> supportive

> > group (ha ha?). People stop being vegan, or have lapses, for

> various

> > reasons and it would be nice if they could feel they could come

> here for

> > help.

> >

> > Michael

> >

> >

> >

> > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,

> > there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

> > ---------------------------

> > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?

> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>

> > Un: send a blank message to -

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Janey says she is shy in real life and she has a vegan friend who lives near

her now, from making the effort to overcome her shyness, so it's worth it!

If you are shy how come you had lots of girlfriends before going vegan?

I was never shy about meeting vegans and veggies, through both the AR

movement and social groups, but get this, after going veggie then vegan I

became less outgoing among animal-eaters than I was before. You might find

yourself more confident and outgoing among like-minded people.

Is Canterbury Wholefoods still there? My friend said she used to know lots

of vegans who were working there at one time.

 

Lesley

 

 

 

djules_75 [djules_75]

21 April 2002 19:11

 

Re: Public opinion has affected me

 

 

Ah thanks Les, I think I just haven't been trying hard enough to find

people, nevertheless it is a bad area for vegans I think, I'm also

quite shy and therefore crap at meeting new people, I'll try the

link though,

Cheers

Lots of

Jules

 

, " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

>

> When I went veggie then vegan I just went out and got involved in

the right

> groups, I dunno what else to advise, as I didn't find it too hard

to do that

> and meet the right sort of people I wanted in my life. I just made

it a

> priority over mixing with animal-eaters. I do find it harder now

with the

> limitations of a family though.

>

> Here is a link for groups in your area, hope this helps, and you

find

> friends (maybe even a girlfriend) and worthwhile activities to get

involved

> in.

> This is the Veggies listing for Kent and there are a few contacts

in and

> near Canterbury, so maybe you have not been looking in the right

places for

> like-minded people.

>

> http://www.veggies.org.uk/acd/europe/UK/england/countyk.htm

>

> Lesley

>

>

>

> djules_75 [djules_75]

> 19 April 2002 21:35

>

> Re: Public opinion has affected me

>

>

> I think most vegans are by nature independant minded, you have to

be!

> This doesn't mean we don't need any support. How can I avoid mixing

> with meat eaters when they make up almost all of the people I know?

I

> can avoid pressure from exterior sources, but it will always be

> there.

>

> , " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

> >

> > I don't understand how anyone can lapse so easily, just because of

> a load of

> > idiots in their real life, when they know that it is most likely

> only a

> > matter of time before they will find some vegan (or at least

> vegetarians who

> > are supportive of veganism) real-life friends, and meanwhile there

> is the

> > online vegan community, which is certainly better than nothing.

> > It's not as if it is hard for single childless people like Jules

to

> find

> > ways to meet up with other real-life vegans, to consider as his

> real peers.

> > I stay vegan despite it isolating me from other mums around here,

> so no peer

> > group for me. I'd rather not have a peer group than have one that

> tries to

> > destroy my veganism (not that they would succeed!). Even when I

was

> in nurse

> > training, long before I was a mum, I was a bit of a loner in my

> training

> > group, didn't mix with them much or consider them my peers, but

> preferred in

> > my own time to get involved in the AR group in Reading and London

> Vegans and

> > Young Vegetarians. I was always off to London or Reading (not too

> difficult

> > on the train from Bracknell, where I lived at the time).

> > I did recently go a couple of times to a local mums and toddlers

> group with

> > Lucy, it was OK, but haven't met any other vegans or vegetarians

> there.

> > Anyway I will probably concentrate more on making friends once we

> have moved

> > (Ashford/Staines/Feltham area). Pretty much given up on Harrow. I

> hate not

> > having many friends because of my beliefs, and because the

> responsibility of

> > the kids prevents me from getting out to groups the way I did

> before, so I

> > am longing for the freedom to join veg/AR groups and be more

> involved in the

> > whole scene again once the kids are older.

> > There is very likely much more opportunity for vegan/veggie

> students like

> > Jules to find like-minded peers than there is for vegan mums like

> me (all

> > the other veg families who are really keen to do things live so

far

> away so

> > we rarely meet up), so he should think himself lucky!

> > Sorry feeling a bit more isolated and depressed than usual as I

> have had one

> > or other of the kids off school with conjunctivitis all week.

Can't

> go out

> > much as it is quite contagious, although they seem quite

untroubled

> by it

> > really, and it looks worse than it feels for them.

> > My recommendation to Jules would be to surround himself by like-

> minded

> > friends as much as he can in his free time, should be easy for a

> young

> > person with no family responsibilities. If he wants help, he could

> start by

> > taking this advice on board! Once he does this, the toxic

influence

> of his

> > college relationships will mean less to him.

> >

> > Lesley

> >

> >

> >

> > Mavreela [nec.lists@m...]

> > 19 April 2002 09:49

> >

> > Re: Public opinion has affected me

> >

> >

> >

> > >I like your honesty Jules and I'm glad you could share this with

> us.

> >

> > Quite. People should be able to feel free to admit things like

> that here,

> > this is not some kind of vegan police state but meant to be a

> supportive

> > group (ha ha?). People stop being vegan, or have lapses, for

> various

> > reasons and it would be nice if they could feel they could come

> here for

> > help.

> >

> > Michael

> >

> >

> >

> > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,

> > there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

> > ---------------------------

> > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?

> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>

> > Un: send a blank message to -

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Well I'm not shy once I know people, but I find it difficult to meet

new people. For instance, at my college, I'm very outgoing with the

people who are in my classes, even if most of the stuff we talk about

is veganism or religion or stuff to do with work. But as soon as

someone new comes into the scene, I just block up.

Same goes with canterbury wholefoods (its changed building but its

still there)- I get all my proteiny foods from there, but I still

haven't got round to asking them if they're vegan or if there are

vegan groups about, I suppose there are, but I just turn up and buy

stuff every time and never get round to asking them, most of the time

they're busy so I don't want to bother them. Maybe now I'll get the

courage.

 

Jules

 

, " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

>

> Janey says she is shy in real life and she has a vegan friend who

lives near

> her now, from making the effort to overcome her shyness, so it's

worth it!

> If you are shy how come you had lots of girlfriends before going

vegan?

> I was never shy about meeting vegans and veggies, through both the

AR

> movement and social groups, but get this, after going veggie then

vegan I

> became less outgoing among animal-eaters than I was before. You

might find

> yourself more confident and outgoing among like-minded people.

> Is Canterbury Wholefoods still there? My friend said she used to

know lots

> of vegans who were working there at one time.

>

> Lesley

[Guest guest]

because they haven't truly understood...

 

>

> djules_75 [djules_75]

>

> What I don't understand is how when people are made aware of what

> they are eating, they carry on eating it. What kind of person does

> this make them? To me this gives me the right to be abusive to them,

> but I suppose that that doesn't help much.

[Guest guest]

No . They just don’t care

-----Original

Message-----

Oliver Slay

[oliver]

22 April 2002 13:10

' '

RE: Re: Public

opinion has affected me

 

because they haven't truly

understood...

 

>

> djules_75 [djules_75]

>

> What I don't understand is how when people

are made aware of what

> they are eating, they carry on eating it.

What kind of person does

> this make them? To me this gives me the right

to be abusive to them,

> but I suppose that that doesn't help much.

 

 

 

~~ info

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please remember that the above is only the opinion

of the author,

there may be another side to the story you have

not heard.

---------------------------

Was this message Off Topic? Did you

know? Was it snipped?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>

Un: send a blank message to

-

 

Your use of

is subject to the

Terms of Service.

[Guest guest]

i agree ... they don't care.... but they don't care because they haven't truly understood the suffering... which is their suffering too...

 

 

Angie Wright [angiewright]

 

No . They just don't care

Oliver Slay [oliver]

 

because they haven't truly understood...