Public opinion has affected me

[Guest guest]

Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia,

peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper'

food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my

blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think

I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too

hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to

myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and

to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters,

because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. I'm staying

vegetarian for a while, until I know what is wrong with me, in the

meantime I'm going to read a few more books on nutrition and learn a

few recipes, and maybe think about getting a tatoo for when I go

vegan again, I don't know. I'm just letting you know because I'm

staying on this list, and the questionnaire when one signs up asks

one whether one is vegan or not.

 

Jules

[Guest guest]

Just because he is a teacher and just because the animal product eaters are

the majority, doesn't mean they are right. He had no right to tell you that

vegan food is not proper food, that is offensive and I would be most likely

to complain about him pushing his views onto me if I were you! Plenty of

people would complain to the head if a teacher was pushing veganism at the

pupils after all, so likewise we should complain if animal-eating is pushed

at us by someone in a position of authority, such as a teacher. Play them at

their own game and don't give in.

Look at some pictures of how the chickens suffer if you need a reminder of

why you went vegan.

The only thing that is wrong with you is a lack of vegan peer group in your

real life, I reckon.

That is easy enough for a single childless person to remedy, unless you

really live out in the sticks I would have thought. I always mixed with lots

of vegans before I had kids, now it is harder to meet up, but I remain

strong in my veganism, despite loneliness.

Don't bow to peer pressure, when you know that they are wrong, and that is

weak.

All you have proved is that they cannot take you and your ethics seriously

from now on, and you surely don't want that. You will end up hating the

animal eaters even more because you will blame them for stopping you being

true to yourself. Take full responsibility for your lapse. You will get very

sick if you eat mainly animal products regardless of your blood group, even

many animal eaters eat mostly vegan food, if you actually look at what they

eat, the meat and dairy only make up a small part, otherwise they get ill.

Even experts advocating meat and dairy do not generally advocate it in large

amounts these days.

 

Lesley

 

 

 

djules_75 [djules_75]

18 April 2002 11:19

 

Public opinion has affected me

 

 

Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia,

peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper'

food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my

blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think

I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too

hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to

myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and

to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters,

because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. I'm staying

vegetarian for a while, until I know what is wrong with me, in the

meantime I'm going to read a few more books on nutrition and learn a

few recipes, and maybe think about getting a tatoo for when I go

vegan again, I don't know. I'm just letting you know because I'm

staying on this list, and the questionnaire when one signs up asks

one whether one is vegan or not.

 

Jules

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Sad bastard.

 

 

> " djules_75 " <djules_75

>

>

> Public opinion has affected me

>Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:18:33 -0000

>

>Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia,

>peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper'

>food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my

>blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think

>I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too

>hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to

>myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and

>to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters,

>because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

That's a little harsh from you, since you ate actual dead animal bits when

you got pissed once, after being vegan. I am pretty sad and appalled that

Jules would bow to peer pressure, but so did you so that one time with your

animal eating friends, so maybe you should understand him!

Being stubborn has its advantages, NO WAY would I have bowed to the peer

pressure of meat-eating friends even when I did mix with such people. In

fact any pressure from them to conform just made me even more determined to

stay vegan, because I believed it was right!

 

Lesley

 

 

 

slg edith [slgedith]

18 April 2002 14:02

 

Re: Public opinion has affected me

 

 

Sad bastard.

 

 

> " djules_75 " <djules_75

>

>

> Public opinion has affected me

>Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:18:33 -0000

>

>Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia,

>peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper'

>food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my

>blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think

>I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too

>hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to

>myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and

>to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters,

>because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them.

 

 

_______________

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[Guest guest]

i don't find talking about animal suffering very useful when talking to

meat-eaters... simply because animals suffering is so so distant from their

small lives... they can't empathise at all...

 

much better to find out exactly what it is they are eating ... and put it in

human terms...

 

eggs - not sure about this ... but it's like menstrual fluids... and

after-birth ...? .... all wrapped up in a shell ... most adult humans feel

sick when you talk about fried chicken menstruation ...

 

bovine mammary excretions.... BME ... apparently you can't get BSE from BME

....

 

the fact that meat is called meat makes it even further from people's minds

what it actually is .... thus i am often calling pork ... dead pig ... and

beef is dead cow ... mincemeat or burgers are basically mashed up cows ...

 

i think it brings the idea of what 'meat' actually is closer to people's

minds... some people remain oblivious ... some people throw up ... it's

not a gender thing .. and it's not an age thing ...

 

at least vegetables can be called vegetables, we're not guilty... (that's a

good reply... to killing plants)

 

a carrot's a carrot ... a potato's a potato ... but ground up mutilated dead

cow removed from its extended family and fed on dead sheep and growth

hormone.... now that's called beef!

 

 

 

 

>

> Lesley Dove [Lesley]

> Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:40 AM

>

> RE: Public opinion has affected me

>

>

>

> Just because he is a teacher and just because the animal

> product eaters are

> the majority, doesn't mean they are right. He had no right to

> tell you that

> vegan food is not proper food, that is offensive and I would

> be most likely

> to complain about him pushing his views onto me if I were

> you! Plenty of

> people would complain to the head if a teacher was pushing

> veganism at the

> pupils after all, so likewise we should complain if

> animal-eating is pushed

> at us by someone in a position of authority, such as a

> teacher. Play them at

> their own game and don't give in.

> Look at some pictures of how the chickens suffer if you need

> a reminder of

> why you went vegan.

> The only thing that is wrong with you is a lack of vegan peer

> group in your

> real life, I reckon.

> That is easy enough for a single childless person to remedy,

> unless you

> really live out in the sticks I would have thought. I always

> mixed with lots

> of vegans before I had kids, now it is harder to meet up, but I remain

> strong in my veganism, despite loneliness.

> Don't bow to peer pressure, when you know that they are

> wrong, and that is

> weak.

> All you have proved is that they cannot take you and your

> ethics seriously

> from now on, and you surely don't want that. You will end up

> hating the

> animal eaters even more because you will blame them for

> stopping you being

> true to yourself. Take full responsibility for your lapse.

> You will get very

> sick if you eat mainly animal products regardless of your

> blood group, even

> many animal eaters eat mostly vegan food, if you actually

> look at what they

> eat, the meat and dairy only make up a small part, otherwise

> they get ill.

> Even experts advocating meat and dairy do not generally

> advocate it in large

> amounts these days.

>

> Lesley

>

>

>

> djules_75 [djules_75]

> 18 April 2002 11:19

>

> Public opinion has affected me

>

>

> Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia,

> peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper'

> food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my

> blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think

> I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too

> hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to

> myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and

> to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters,

> because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. I'm staying

> vegetarian for a while, until I know what is wrong with me, in the

> meantime I'm going to read a few more books on nutrition and learn a

> few recipes, and maybe think about getting a tatoo for when I go

> vegan again, I don't know. I'm just letting you know because I'm

> staying on this list, and the questionnaire when one signs up asks

> one whether one is vegan or not.

>

> Jules

>

>

>

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> there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

> ---------------------------

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>

[Guest guest]

Don't worry Jules...you just ain't vegan yet...thats it...people who

relapse never got the point in the first place. I never knew any

vegans at all when I became vegan. I just got the point, bought the

animal free shopper, and then took it from there.

 

Maybe one day, when you are big enough to reason and make your own

choices, you'll realise what a silly boy you've been.

 

 

Pr D.C.Talking

[Guest guest]

Why don't you give your ass a rest, Leslie?

 

 

> " Lesley Dove " <Lesley

>

>

>RE: Public opinion has affected me

>Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:31:33 +0100

>

>That's a little harsh from you, since you ate actual dead animal bits when

>you got pissed once, after being vegan. I am pretty sad and appalled that

>Jules would bow to peer pressure, but so did you so that one time with your

>animal eating friends, so maybe you should understand him!

>Being stubborn has its advantages, NO WAY would I have bowed to the peer

>pressure of meat-eating friends even when I did mix with such people. In

>fact any pressure from them to conform just made me even more determined to

>stay vegan, because I believed it was right!

>

>Lesley

>

>

>

>slg edith [slgedith]

>18 April 2002 14:02

>

>Re: Public opinion has affected me

>

>

>Sad bastard.

>

>

> > " djules_75 " <djules_75

> >

> >

> > Public opinion has affected me

> >Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:18:33 -0000

> >

> >Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia,

> >peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper'

> >food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my

> >blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think

> >I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too

> >hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to

> >myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and

> >to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters,

> >because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them.

>

>

>_______________

>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

>

>

>

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>

[Guest guest]

>Sad bastard.

 

I'd be a very bad impartial moderator to say that's a fair comment, but

that kind of talk's not welcome on here so don't do it again.

 

People shouldn't be called names just because they ate something non-vegan

because of circumstance.

 

Michael

[Guest guest]

>at least vegetables can be called vegetables, we're not guilty... (that's a

>good reply... to killing plants)

 

Tell that to a fruitarian.

 

Still you're right about t'other stuff.

 

Michael

[Guest guest]

> >Sad bastard.

>

> I'd be a very bad impartial moderator to say that's a fair

> comment, but

 

i interpret this as 'That's a fair comment'

 

> that kind of talk's not welcome on here so don't do it again.

>

> People shouldn't be called names just because they ate

> something non-vegan

> because of circumstance.

>

> Michael

 

can we call it non-vegan? ...

[Guest guest]

my sentiments exactly....RAT.....

 

 

That's a little harsh from you, since you ate actual dead animal bits when

you got pissed once, after being vegan. I am pretty sad and appalled that

Jules would bow to peer pressure, but so did you so that one time with your

animal eating friends, so maybe you should understand him!

Being stubborn has its advantages, NO WAY would I have bowed to the peer

pressure of meat-eating friends even when I did mix with such people. In

fact any pressure from them to conform just made me even more determined to

stay vegan, because I believed it was right!

 

Lesley

 

 

 

slg edith [slgedith]

18 April 2002 14:02

 

Re: Public opinion has affected me

 

 

Sad bastard.

 

 

> " djules_75 " <djules_75

>

>

> Public opinion has affected me

>Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:18:33 -0000

>

>Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia,

>peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper'

>food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my

>blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think

>I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too

>hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to

>myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and

>to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters,

>because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them.

 

 

_______________

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[Guest guest]

I like your honesty Jules and I'm glad you could share this with us.

Although this personally wouldn't happen to me - the longer I've been vegan

the stronger and more determined I've become - I can understand your

reasons. I hope you find the answers to the questions you're asking

yourself and become a vegan again soon. Once you've read more about animal

cruelty and just how bad animal meats and products are for you (and how much

cholesterol is in eggs as well!!!) you'll soon be glad that you're not a

vegetarian anymore! There's no pressure though. Just don't let people

bully you into not being a vegan. If that was the case I guess a lot of us

on this list wouldn't be vegans anymore either! I'm glad that I have a lot

of knowledge which I've built up on animal issues and if anyone starts

criticising me for being a vegan it all comes pouring out and they wish they

hadn't mention it! Knowledge is power! Knowledge also saves animals lives!

 

Good luck.

 

Janey

x

 

 

 

-

" djules_75 " <djules_75

 

Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:18 AM

Public opinion has affected me

 

 

> Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia,

> peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper'

> food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my

> blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think

> I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too

> hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to

> myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and

> to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters,

> because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. I'm staying

> vegetarian for a while, until I know what is wrong with me, in the

> meantime I'm going to read a few more books on nutrition and learn a

> few recipes, and maybe think about getting a tatoo for when I go

> vegan again, I don't know. I'm just letting you know because I'm

> staying on this list, and the questionnaire when one signs up asks

> one whether one is vegan or not.

>

> Jules

>

>

>

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> there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

> ---------------------------

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>

[Guest guest]

Your memory has let you down again I see! I don't remember anyone calling

you a sad bastard when you lapsed due to peer pressure, or drunkiness or

whatever.

 

Janey

x

 

-

" slg edith " <slgedith

 

Thursday, April 18, 2002 2:02 PM

Re: Public opinion has affected me

 

 

> Sad bastard.

>

>

> > " djules_75 " <djules_75

> >

> >

> > Public opinion has affected me

> >Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:18:33 -0000

> >

> >Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia,

> >peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper'

> >food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my

> >blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think

> >I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too

> >hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to

> >myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and

> >to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters,

> >because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them.

>

>

> _______________

> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

>

>

>

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>

[Guest guest]

I agree Lesley. I get even stronger if people give me any pressure. But

nothing or nobody would make me eat meat or dairy.

 

Janey

x

 

-

" Lesley Dove " <Lesley

 

Thursday, April 18, 2002 2:31 PM

RE: Public opinion has affected me

 

 

> That's a little harsh from you, since you ate actual dead animal bits when

> you got pissed once, after being vegan. I am pretty sad and appalled that

> Jules would bow to peer pressure, but so did you so that one time with

your

> animal eating friends, so maybe you should understand him!

> Being stubborn has its advantages, NO WAY would I have bowed to the peer

> pressure of meat-eating friends even when I did mix with such people. In

> fact any pressure from them to conform just made me even more determined

to

> stay vegan, because I believed it was right!

>

> Lesley

>

>

>

> slg edith [slgedith]

> 18 April 2002 14:02

>

> Re: Public opinion has affected me

>

>

> Sad bastard.

>

>

> > " djules_75 " <djules_75

> >

> >

> > Public opinion has affected me

> >Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:18:33 -0000

> >

> >Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia,

> >peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper'

> >food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my

> >blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think

> >I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too

> >hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to

> >myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and

> >to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters,

> >because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them.

>

>

> _______________

> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

>

>

>

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>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I do this! My colleague always eats ham sandwiches and I always call

them dead pig sandwiches. I now have the Vegan Society membership renewal

postcard on my office wall - the one with the poor calf with the slogan

*Live A Cruelty Free Life - Go Vegan!*. My colleague complained that the

picture upset her (guilty conscience???!) and she wanted me to take it down,

but I refused! I get upset when she eats dead pig sandwiches so I guess

we're quits. Anyway, lots of my colleagues see my Vegan Society postcard so

that's good!

 

Also my colleague used to put her sandwich wrappers in the bin by my desk.

I told her the other day that if her sandwiches were dead pig then she was

to put her wrapper in someone else's bin. It worked too!

 

Janey

x

 

 

 

> the fact that meat is called meat makes it even further from people's

minds

> what it actually is .... thus i am often calling pork ... dead pig ... and

> beef is dead cow ... mincemeat or burgers are basically mashed up cows

....

Oliver

[Guest guest]

I don't understand this Michael? Why say *tell that to a fruitarian*???

Fruitarians eat greens too you know, but their diet is mainly made up of

fruits.

 

Janey

x

 

 

>

> >at least vegetables can be called vegetables, we're not guilty...

(that's a

> >good reply... to killing plants)

>

> Tell that to a fruitarian.

>

> Still you're right about t'other stuff.

>

> Michael

[Guest guest]

I'm not *sad* and *appalled*. Its all part of learning and perhaps this

will help Jules to understand veganism and how to deal with others a bit

more now.

 

Janey

x

 

<snipped>

< I am pretty sad and appalled that

> Jules would bow to peer pressure, >

> Lesley

>

>

[Guest guest]

Don't listen to him Jules!!!

 

Edith proved that you can be a vegan and then go out and eat meat, but

pctalking likes her and I'm sure he still considers her a vegan! Or maybe

he doesn't consider her a vegan. Who cares?!

 

I'm sure you'll find your feet eventually and become a vegan again.

Nobody's perfect. Glad you could share it with us.

 

Janey

x

 

 

 

> Don't worry Jules...you just ain't vegan yet...thats it...people who

> relapse never got the point in the first place. I never knew any

> vegans at all when I became vegan. I just got the point, bought the

> animal free shopper, and then took it from there.

>

> Maybe one day, when you are big enough to reason and make your own

> choices, you'll realise what a silly boy you've been.

[Guest guest]

>I like your honesty Jules and I'm glad you could share this with us.

 

Quite. People should be able to feel free to admit things like that here,

this is not some kind of vegan police state but meant to be a supportive

group (ha ha?). People stop being vegan, or have lapses, for various

reasons and it would be nice if they could feel they could come here for help.

 

Michael

[Guest guest]

I don't understand how anyone can lapse so easily, just because of a load of

idiots in their real life, when they know that it is most likely only a

matter of time before they will find some vegan (or at least vegetarians who

are supportive of veganism) real-life friends, and meanwhile there is the

online vegan community, which is certainly better than nothing.

It's not as if it is hard for single childless people like Jules to find

ways to meet up with other real-life vegans, to consider as his real peers.

I stay vegan despite it isolating me from other mums around here, so no peer

group for me. I'd rather not have a peer group than have one that tries to

destroy my veganism (not that they would succeed!). Even when I was in nurse

training, long before I was a mum, I was a bit of a loner in my training

group, didn't mix with them much or consider them my peers, but preferred in

my own time to get involved in the AR group in Reading and London Vegans and

Young Vegetarians. I was always off to London or Reading (not too difficult

on the train from Bracknell, where I lived at the time).

I did recently go a couple of times to a local mums and toddlers group with

Lucy, it was OK, but haven't met any other vegans or vegetarians there.

Anyway I will probably concentrate more on making friends once we have moved

(Ashford/Staines/Feltham area). Pretty much given up on Harrow. I hate not

having many friends because of my beliefs, and because the responsibility of

the kids prevents me from getting out to groups the way I did before, so I

am longing for the freedom to join veg/AR groups and be more involved in the

whole scene again once the kids are older.

There is very likely much more opportunity for vegan/veggie students like

Jules to find like-minded peers than there is for vegan mums like me (all

the other veg families who are really keen to do things live so far away so

we rarely meet up), so he should think himself lucky!

Sorry feeling a bit more isolated and depressed than usual as I have had one

or other of the kids off school with conjunctivitis all week. Can't go out

much as it is quite contagious, although they seem quite untroubled by it

really, and it looks worse than it feels for them.

My recommendation to Jules would be to surround himself by like-minded

friends as much as he can in his free time, should be easy for a young

person with no family responsibilities. If he wants help, he could start by

taking this advice on board! Once he does this, the toxic influence of his

college relationships will mean less to him.

 

Lesley

 

 

 

Mavreela [nec.lists]

19 April 2002 09:49

 

Re: Public opinion has affected me

 

 

 

>I like your honesty Jules and I'm glad you could share this with us.

 

Quite. People should be able to feel free to admit things like that here,

this is not some kind of vegan police state but meant to be a supportive

group (ha ha?). People stop being vegan, or have lapses, for various

reasons and it would be nice if they could feel they could come here for

help.

 

Michael

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

>I don't understand how anyone can lapse so easily...

 

Damn, this is going to sound nasty but isn't meant that way... Lesley,

there is a lot you don't understand. I mean such as my attitude to life,

or those who do not think abortion bad, or those who do not feel they

should cut off access with non-vegans etc.

 

In this case I don't see how anyone can be truly committed to being a vegan

and lapse in such a way either, but I don't think we can condemn Jules for

it. Like with everyone there is more to him than just being a vegan and so

there are any number of reasons that could have lead to what he did. Maybe

it will make him come to realize something about himself that means he

would never do anything like it again, and wouldn't that be a good

thing? It's all too easy to condemn people for not acting in the same way

that we would, but people learn from their mistakes. If we start

condemning people who slip up then we are more likely to push them away

because they'd up feeling as alienated from the vegan community as they

feel from the general social one.

 

>meanwhile there is the

>online vegan community, which is certainly better than nothing.

 

The difference between knowing people in the real world and online is vast,

and you really can't compare the two. An online community is something but

it can't even began to compensate for the lack of something more real.

 

>It's not as if it is hard for single childless people like Jules to find

>ways to meet up with other real-life vegans, to consider as his real peers.

 

This is the point I was making earlier, that being a vegan isn't everything

to a person. Should my peers be people who are also vegan, share my

sexuality, both? Both are important to who I am, and shape my outlook on

everything. Include all the other things that are essential to being 'me'

and it would be very unlikely that there would be many people who could

qualify as my peers, never mind the chance to come across them.

 

>I'd rather not have a peer group than have one that tries to

>destroy my veganism (not that they would succeed!).

 

Ditto.

 

>There is very likely much more opportunity for vegan/veggie students like

>Jules to find like-minded peers... so he should think himself lucky!

 

Only lucky if that's what he wants. That said the idea that there are

student societies for everything, and that there are lots of vegans is

somewhat a myth based on my experience. I'm not saying there aren't any

but you only really get to come across extremists and not everyone shares

the same active political/ecological/AR position. And if you don't you are

likely to be made to feel a lot worse about yourself by them than you are

by those who don't understand veganism.

 

Michael

[Guest guest]

Jules doesn't sound like he's old enough to be able to shrug off

pressure from others, especially when some of that pressure is coming

from someone older and who he has been led to believe is wiser. I

know that in the early days of my veganism, I had a few lapses too -

cheese sandwiches and yoghurts (but not together, coz that'd be

wierd.) Maybe he'll come to realise, like me, that beliefs are worth

having. When I get a cold, despite a colleague blaming it on the lack

of meat in my diet, I know that I'm no more unhealthy than I was all

those years ago when (I can hardly bear to write this!!!) I ate meat.

I'm actually better off being vegan, especially as I have an

intolerance to milk which causes severe stomach cramps (how long have

we been told we should drink more milk?) Jules shouldn't listen to

other people, he should live his life the way he wants to live it. If

he decides veganism isn't for him regardless of what other people

say, then that's his decision, but he mustn't let others make that

decision for him.

 

Chris x

 

, " djules_75 " <djules_75> wrote:

> Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia,

> peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper'

> food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my

> blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I

think

> I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too

> hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to

> myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like,

and

> to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-

eaters,

> because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. I'm

staying

> vegetarian for a while, until I know what is wrong with me, in the

> meantime I'm going to read a few more books on nutrition and learn

a

> few recipes, and maybe think about getting a tatoo for when I go

> vegan again, I don't know. I'm just letting you know because I'm

> staying on this list, and the questionnaire when one signs up asks

> one whether one is vegan or not.

>

> Jules

[Guest guest]

, " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

>

> Just because he is a teacher and just because the animal product

eaters are

> the majority, doesn't mean they are right. He had no right to tell

you that

> vegan food is not proper food, that is offensive and I would be

most likely

> to complain about him pushing his views onto me if I were you!

 

To be fair to my physics teacher, I think he was genuinely worried

about me. I'd turned up to the first physics lesson completrely

drugged out of my head, and had to hide it because its illegal, he

thought it was because of my food, and this was a severe blow to me

because the whole class was listening and I was giving veganism a bad

name.

 

Plenty of

> people would complain to the head if a teacher was pushing veganism

at the

> pupils after all, so likewise we should complain if animal-eating

is pushed

> at us by someone in a position of authority, such as a teacher.

Play them at

> their own game and don't give in.

> Look at some pictures of how the chickens suffer if you need a

reminder of

> why you went vegan.

> The only thing that is wrong with you is a lack of vegan peer group

in your

> real life, I reckon.

 

Yeah you're right. I'm going to try harder to find some real friends,

and stop trying to escape from everything.

 

> All you have proved is that they cannot take you and your ethics

seriously

> from now on, and you surely don't want that.

 

Yeah, sad to say it, but that has already happened.

 

You will end up hating the

> animal eaters even more because you will blame them for stopping

you being

> true to yourself.

 

I'm not blaming them, I am going to stop hating them, hate is getting

me nowhere.

 

Take full responsibility for your lapse. You will get very

> sick if you eat mainly animal products regardless of your blood

group, even

> many animal eaters eat mostly vegan food, if you actually look at

what they

> eat, the meat and dairy only make up a small part, otherwise they

get ill.

 

I don't know about that...

 

> Even experts advocating meat and dairy do not generally advocate it

in large

> amounts these days.

>

> Lesley

>

>

Jules

[Guest guest]

, " slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote:

> Sad bastard.

 

Yeah. I'm depressed and my parents weren't married when I was born.

This makes me a sad bastard.

 

Do you deny that you're an abusive, uncompassionate, unsympathetic

vegan? I think you are, you're no less of a hypocrite than me.

[Guest guest]

, " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

> That's a little harsh from you, since you ate actual dead animal

bits when

> you got pissed once, after being vegan. I am pretty sad and

appalled that

> Jules would bow to peer pressure,

 

It wasn't just peer pressure, it was lots of other things.

 

Mainly my problem was that I was getting too religious about my

veganism, causing me to hate everyone who wasn't vegan, it was

turnoing me into a prime time dickhead, I was losing hair, and

getting fanatical and scared of meat-eaters.

 

Peer pressure was the wrong thing to call it.