Granules w/o starch

March 22, 2007

I am not sure Quali has a website. I have a phone number at the office and can

give it to you if you want

-

J. van Es

Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:32 AM

Re: Granules w/o starch

Alon,

Where do you source your Sheng Chang/ Quali granules? I couldn't

find a website.

Thanks,

Jan

, " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus

wrote:

>

> Tom

> Do you know if KPC is able to sell in Japan the formulas that

contain marc? When i visited Sheng Chang (Quali) they told me you

cant do that if you are to sell in Japan

>

> -

> Tom Verhaeghe

>

> Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:27 AM

> Re: Granules w/o starch

>

> KPC uses both potato starch and marc to make their granules:

>

> " In a completely enclosed chamber, protected against

> cross-contamination, the concentrated herb extracts undergo a

> non-continuous granulation process known as flow coating. The

> concentrate is sprayed either on potato starch particles or

particles

> of the same herb(s) and is subsequently vacuum-dried at low

temperature. "

>

> plus some pictures @ http://www.sinecura.be/

>

> Tom.

>

> , " Alon Marcus "

> <alonmarcus@> wrote:

> >

> > not in Taiwan because of japan

> >

> > -

> > kip@

> >

> > Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:04 PM

> > RE: Re: Granules w/o starch

> >

> > The marc is the leftover plant material after extraction. It is

my

> > understanding that many companies spray the concentrated extract

> of the

> > medicinal back onto the marc instead of using starch.

> >

> > Kip

> >

>

March 22, 2007

That would be great. , " Alon

Marcus " <alonmarcus wrote:

>

> I am not sure Quali has a website. I have a phone number at the

office and can give it to you if you want

>

> -

> J. van Es

>

> Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:32 AM

> Re: Granules w/o starch

>

> Alon,

>

> Where do you source your Sheng Chang/ Quali granules? I couldn't

> find a website.

>

> Thanks,

March 22, 2007

It's www.qualiherb.com.

Mike L.

Alon Marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

I am not sure Quali has a website. I have a phone number at the office

and can give it to you if you want

-

J. van Es

Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:32 AM

Re: Granules w/o starch

Alon,

Where do you source your Sheng Chang/ Quali granules? I couldn't

find a website.

Thanks,

Jan

, " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus

wrote:

>

> Tom

> Do you know if KPC is able to sell in Japan the formulas that

contain marc? When i visited Sheng Chang (Quali) they told me you

cant do that if you are to sell in Japan

>

> -

> Tom Verhaeghe

>

> Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:27 AM

> Re: Granules w/o starch

>

> KPC uses both potato starch and marc to make their granules:

>

> " In a completely enclosed chamber, protected against

> cross-contamination, the concentrated herb extracts undergo a

> non-continuous granulation process known as flow coating. The

> concentrate is sprayed either on potato starch particles or

particles

> of the same herb(s) and is subsequently vacuum-dried at low

temperature. "

>

> plus some pictures @ http://www.sinecura.be/

>

> Tom.

>

> , " Alon Marcus "

> <alonmarcus@> wrote:

> >

> > not in Taiwan because of japan

> >

> > -

> > kip@

> >

> > Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:04 PM

> > RE: Re: Granules w/o starch

> >

> > The marc is the leftover plant material after extraction. It is

my

> > understanding that many companies spray the concentrated extract

> of the

> > medicinal back onto the marc instead of using starch.

> >

> > Kip

>

March 22, 2007

I would highly recommend for those that use powders to get a sample of quali

herbs and taste them. They have the strongest taste and smell of all the powders

available in the US i found so far.

-

Mike Liaw

Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:59 AM

Re: Re: Granules w/o starch

It's www.qualiherb.com.

Mike L.

Alon Marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

I am not sure Quali has a website. I have a phone number at the office and can

give it to you if you want

-

J. van Es

Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:32 AM

Re: Granules w/o starch

Alon,

Where do you source your Sheng Chang/ Quali granules? I couldn't

find a website.

Thanks,

Jan

, " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus

wrote:

>

> Tom

> Do you know if KPC is able to sell in Japan the formulas that

contain marc? When i visited Sheng Chang (Quali) they told me you

cant do that if you are to sell in Japan

>

> -

> Tom Verhaeghe

>

> Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:27 AM

> Re: Granules w/o starch

>

> KPC uses both potato starch and marc to make their granules:

>

> " In a completely enclosed chamber, protected against

> cross-contamination, the concentrated herb extracts undergo a

> non-continuous granulation process known as flow coating. The

> concentrate is sprayed either on potato starch particles or

particles

> of the same herb(s) and is subsequently vacuum-dried at low

temperature. "

>

> plus some pictures @ http://www.sinecura.be/

>

> Tom.

>

> , " Alon Marcus "

> <alonmarcus@> wrote:

> >

> > not in Taiwan because of japan

> >

> > -

> > kip@

> >

> > Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:04 PM

> > RE: Re: Granules w/o starch

> >

> > The marc is the leftover plant material after extraction. It is

my

> > understanding that many companies spray the concentrated extract

> of the

> > medicinal back onto the marc instead of using starch.

> >

> > Kip

> >

>

March 22, 2007

J. Van Es

Do you have contact info for Health Source? I would like to get some samples of

E-Fong

-

J. van Es

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:39 PM

Re: Granules w/o starch

Alon,

Yes, they are available in the U.S. through Health Source. I

recommend going to the website www.e-fong.com. They also have a

detailed flow chart of their manufacturing process on the website.

Best,

J. van Es

, " Alon Marcus "

<alonmarcus wrote:

>

> J. Van Es

> are they available in US?

>

> -

> J. van Es

>

> Danny,

>

> Check out E-Fong granules from Guangdong Yifang Pharmaceuticals.

> They don't use any starch or binding agents.

>

March 22, 2007

Alon,

I agree, in comparing Qualiherb with KPC, but I haven't had a chance of using

SunTen, have you?

Mike L.

Alon Marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

I would highly recommend for those that use powders to get a sample of

quali herbs and taste them. They have the strongest taste and smell of all the

powders available in the US i found so far.

-

Mike Liaw

Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:59 AM

Re: Re: Granules w/o starch

It's www.qualiherb.com.

Mike L.

Alon Marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

I am not sure Quali has a website. I have a phone number at the office and can

give it to you if you want

-

J. van Es

Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:32 AM

Re: Granules w/o starch

Alon,

Where do you source your Sheng Chang/ Quali granules? I couldn't

find a website.

Thanks,

Jan

, " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus

wrote:

>

> Tom

> Do you know if KPC is able to sell in Japan the formulas that

contain marc? When i visited Sheng Chang (Quali) they told me you

cant do that if you are to sell in Japan

>

> -

> Tom Verhaeghe

>

> Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:27 AM

> Re: Granules w/o starch

>

> KPC uses both potato starch and marc to make their granules:

>

> " In a completely enclosed chamber, protected against

> cross-contamination, the concentrated herb extracts undergo a

> non-continuous granulation process known as flow coating. The

> concentrate is sprayed either on potato starch particles or

particles

> of the same herb(s) and is subsequently vacuum-dried at low

temperature. "

>

> plus some pictures @ http://www.sinecura.be/

>

> Tom.

>

> , " Alon Marcus "

> <alonmarcus@> wrote:

> >

> > not in Taiwan because of japan

> >

> > -

> > kip@

> >

> > Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:04 PM

> > RE: Re: Granules w/o starch

> >

> > The marc is the leftover plant material after extraction. It is

my

> > understanding that many companies spray the concentrated extract

> of the

> > medicinal back onto the marc instead of using starch.

> >

> > Kip

>

March 22, 2007

Mike

I have not seen SunTen products since 1983 so i cant remember them well except

that they had these big granules and it was easy to just poor into the mouth and

drink down

-

Mike Liaw

Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:10 PM

Re: Re: Granules w/o starch

Alon,

I agree, in comparing Qualiherb with KPC, but I haven't had a chance of using

SunTen, have you?

Mike L.

Alon Marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

I would highly recommend for those that use powders to get a sample of quali

herbs and taste them. They have the strongest taste and smell of all the powders

available in the US i found so far.

-

Mike Liaw

Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:59 AM

Re: Re: Granules w/o starch

It's www.qualiherb.com.

Mike L.

Alon Marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

I am not sure Quali has a website. I have a phone number at the office and can

give it to you if you want

-

J. van Es

Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:32 AM

Re: Granules w/o starch

Alon,

Where do you source your Sheng Chang/ Quali granules? I couldn't

find a website.

Thanks,

Jan

, " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus

wrote:

>

> Tom

> Do you know if KPC is able to sell in Japan the formulas that

contain marc? When i visited Sheng Chang (Quali) they told me you

cant do that if you are to sell in Japan

>

> -

> Tom Verhaeghe

>

> Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:27 AM

> Re: Granules w/o starch

>

> KPC uses both potato starch and marc to make their granules:

>

> " In a completely enclosed chamber, protected against

> cross-contamination, the concentrated herb extracts undergo a

> non-continuous granulation process known as flow coating. The

> concentrate is sprayed either on potato starch particles or

particles

> of the same herb(s) and is subsequently vacuum-dried at low

temperature. "

>

> plus some pictures @ http://www.sinecura.be/

>

> Tom.

>

> , " Alon Marcus "

> <alonmarcus@> wrote:

> >

> > not in Taiwan because of japan

> >

> > -

> > kip@

> >

> > Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:04 PM

> > RE: Re: Granules w/o starch

> >

> > The marc is the leftover plant material after extraction. It is

my

> > understanding that many companies spray the concentrated extract

> of the

> > medicinal back onto the marc instead of using starch.

> >

> > Kip

> >

>

March 23, 2007

Alon,

Here's the contact info for Health Source:

Eva Zhang, Orders (866) 626-5666. Their in Elmont, Ca. So, for west

coast orders shipping is reasonable.

Best Regards,

Jan

, " Alon Marcus "

<alonmarcus wrote:

>

> J. Van Es

> Do you have contact info for Health Source? I would like to get

some samples of E-Fong

>

> -

> J. van Es

>

> Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:39 PM

> Re: Granules w/o starch

>

> Alon,

>

> Yes, they are available in the U.S. through Health Source. I

> recommend going to the website www.e-fong.com. They also have a

> detailed flow chart of their manufacturing process on the website.

>

> Best,

>

> J. van Es

>

> , " Alon Marcus "

> <alonmarcus@> wrote:

> >

> > J. Van Es

> > are they available in US?

> >

>

> >

> > -

> > J. van Es

>

> >

> > Danny,

> >

> > Check out E-Fong granules from Guangdong Yifang

Pharmaceuticals.

> > They don't use any starch or binding agents.

> >

>

March 23, 2007

Not to endorse or anything, but I have been using Quali granules for 2

years now and have been very impressed with their effectiveness and

consistency. The powders are the same color when I re-order them,

something I have had issue with in the past with other brands.

, " Alon Marcus "

<alonmarcus wrote:

>

> I would highly recommend for those that use powders to get a sample

of quali herbs and taste them. They have the strongest taste and smell

of all the powders available in the US i found so far.

>

> -

> Mike Liaw

>

> Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:59 AM

> Re: Re: Granules w/o starch

>

> It's www.qualiherb.com.

>

> Mike L.

>

> Alon Marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

> I am not sure Quali has a website. I have a phone number at the

office and can give it to you if you want

>

> -

> J. van Es

>

> Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:32 AM

> Re: Granules w/o starch

>

> Alon,

>

> Where do you source your Sheng Chang/ Quali granules? I couldn't

> find a website.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Jan

>

> , " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Tom

> > Do you know if KPC is able to sell in Japan the formulas that

> contain marc? When i visited Sheng Chang (Quali) they told me you

> cant do that if you are to sell in Japan

> >

> > -

> > Tom Verhaeghe

> >

> > Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:27 AM

> > Re: Granules w/o starch

> >

> > KPC uses both potato starch and marc to make their granules:

> >

> > " In a completely enclosed chamber, protected against

> > cross-contamination, the concentrated herb extracts undergo a

> > non-continuous granulation process known as flow coating. The

> > concentrate is sprayed either on potato starch particles or

> particles

> > of the same herb(s) and is subsequently vacuum-dried at low

> temperature. "

> >

> > plus some pictures @ http://www.sinecura.be/

> >

> > Tom.

> >

> > , " Alon Marcus "

> > <alonmarcus@> wrote:

> > >

> > > not in Taiwan because of japan

> > >

> > > -

> > > kip@

> > >

> > > Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:04 PM

> > > RE: Re: Granules w/o starch

> > >

> > > The marc is the leftover plant material after extraction. It is

> my

> > > understanding that many companies spray the concentrated extract

> > of the

> > > medicinal back onto the marc instead of using starch.

> > >

> > > Kip

> > >

> >

March 23, 2007

I can appreciate you not wanting to endorse. I think all of us have had favorite

brands,

sometimes coming and going. Certainly, there are personal connections when a

manufacturer or distributor seems more accessible or goes out of their way to

solve a

problem, herbally or otherwises. Often times manufacturer will have a good

ready-made,

manufactured formula for one thing but be so-so in other formulas.

It would seem to be a tricky business for them. Having customers switch because

of price,

or a bad reaction or some other thing beyond their control.

I remember that group from Australia that came to the US to sell their granules

a few years

ago. They knew what they were doing, had funding, were smart. However, one issue

I had,

was " why should switch over all my herbs and can I trust them to still be around

in 5

years? " Which unfortunately came to pass.

doug

> Not to endorse or anything, but I have been using Quali granules for 2

> years now and have been very impressed with their effectiveness and

> consistency. The powders are the same color when I re-order them,

> something I have had issue with in the past with other brands.

>

March 23, 2007

thanks

-

J. van Es

Friday, March 23, 2007 3:17 PM

Re: Granules w/o starch

Alon,

Here's the contact info for Health Source:

Eva Zhang, Orders (866) 626-5666. Their in Elmont, Ca. So, for west

coast orders shipping is reasonable.

Best Regards,

Jan

, " Alon Marcus "

<alonmarcus wrote:

>

> J. Van Es

> Do you have contact info for Health Source? I would like to get

some samples of E-Fong

>

> -

> J. van Es

>

> Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:39 PM

> Re: Granules w/o starch

>

> Alon,

>

> Yes, they are available in the U.S. through Health Source. I

> recommend going to the website www.e-fong.com. They also have a

> detailed flow chart of their manufacturing process on the website.

>

> Best,

>

> J. van Es

>

> , " Alon Marcus "

> <alonmarcus@> wrote:

> >

> > J. Van Es

> > are they available in US?

> >

>

> >

> > -

> > J. van Es

>

> >

> > Danny,

> >

> > Check out E-Fong granules from Guangdong Yifang

Pharmaceuticals.

> > They don't use any starch or binding agents.

> >

>

March 28, 2007

, " Bob Flaws "

<pemachophel2001 wrote:

>

> I can absolutely assure you that there does not have to be a carrier.

I was always under the impression that the carrier allowed the powder

to flow evenly and avoid clumping. If that was the case, it seems

that the carrier might be required for mixing customized powders,

while capsules and other products could achieve a higher concentration

because there is no need to have the product pour smoothly. I'd be

really interested to learn whether or not the filler is essential for

the method of combining granule powders. Some herbs would tend to

have stickier extracts that would be more prone to clumping, while

others might be more easy to deal with.

To me, the big thing that is missing is precise conversion information

on most of the products out there. Many of the companies import from

Taiwan, and the Taiwanese labels are extremely detailed about the

precise (and varied!) concentration ratio of each product. However,

the information is removed from the US label for the exact same

product, and all that we see is 1 g proprietary blend of herb X

extract and powder. There is no transparency and no call for

increased transparency by consumers. As it is, very few practitioners

are aware of exactly how many grams of raw herbs their concentrated

doses are equivalent to. Few herbal companies provide this

information, yet one would think that the good companies would be

advertising and promoting the strength of their concentrations. When

the data exists, why hide it? Western drugs would never remove their

dosage imprint for an overseas market.

While the new Blue Poppy herbs and the Golden Flower tablets are very

clear about their concentration (Mayway, too, if I recall correctly),

I find that most companies don't list their concentration ratios and

raw conversion info. While I completely agree that good extraction

techniques and high-quality starting materials are key, and I don't in

any way underestimate the importance of tasting the product for

quality and effect, I do think that this conversation would be much

more informed if we had more than taste and reputation to go on. If

all the companies would simply inform the customers of the amount of

raw herbs per oz, gram, tablet, or whatever, we would be able to

simply compare the potency and concentration of the raw ingredients,

and after having a basic mathematical look at the equation, we could

then launch into a topic on which herbs are the freshest, tastiest,

nicest technology, etc. But at the moment, very few of us even know

the basic quantity of crude drugs that we are prescribing.

As a side note, I saw some xing ren in a granule jar (in the US) that

looked and smelled just like the ground raw product. And I recently

had a bottle of Taiwanese yi yi ren extract that was 96% crude drug

and 6% concentrated extract (0.6 g crude drug concentrated into 0.037

g of extract)- basically was just concentrated 1.5:1 by the end. The

huang bai from the same company was something like 4.6:1 (4.2 grams of

huang bai concentrated into 0.6 g of powder, with 0.4 g of ground

huang bai as filler per gram). So these things are variable and not

the least bit transparent in terms of US labelling. Also of note is

that minerals and gelatins are not concentrated in granule form, they

are just the finely ground form of the crude drug.

Eric

March 28, 2007

Eric and group,

I also have been concerned about this for years, it is a MAJOR problem. I

have called the companies on multiple occasions and never can get a straight

answer. Didn't Alon at one time say that he some lists of the ratios? Does

anyone else? I guess this is one of the many reasons I choose Bulk herbs.

:-)

-

_____

On Behalf Of Eric Brand