Granules w/o starch

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I'm thinking about incorporating herb granules into my practice. Are

there any companies that don't use anything but the herb as a carrier

for the granules?

From calling around I've found that many use corn or potato starch

as the carrier, which isn't that big of a deal to me but I've also

heard conflicting information between websites, customer service

reps, and production reps at companies.

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

Danny Johnson L.Ac.

 

 

 

On Mar 23, 2006, at 4:41 PM, wrote:

 

> Jason

> I use slightly smaller doses unless i am really trying to pull

> down. That is because there is a lot of starch in the KPC

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Danny,

 

Check out E-Fong granules from Guangdong Yifang Pharmaceuticals.

They don't use any starch or binding agents.

 

J. van Es

, Danny Johnson

<danny wrote:

>

> Hi,

> I'm thinking about incorporating herb granules into my practice.

Are

> there any companies that don't use anything but the herb as a

carrier

> for the granules?

> From calling around I've found that many use corn or potato

starch

> as the carrier, which isn't that big of a deal to me but I've also

> heard conflicting information between websites, customer service

> reps, and production reps at companies.

>

> Any help would be much appreciated.

> Danny Johnson L.Ac.

>

>

>

> On Mar 23, 2006, at 4:41 PM, wrote:

>

> > Jason

> > I use slightly smaller doses unless i am really trying to pull

> > down. That is because there is a lot of starch in the KPC

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

there has to be some kind of carrier for any powder extract, unless it is liquid

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

J. van Es

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:55 AM

Re: Granules w/o starch

 

 

Danny,

 

Check out E-Fong granules from Guangdong Yifang Pharmaceuticals.

They don't use any starch or binding agents.

 

J. van Es

, Danny Johnson

<danny wrote:

>

> Hi,

> I'm thinking about incorporating herb granules into my practice.

Are

> there any companies that don't use anything but the herb as a

carrier

> for the granules?

> From calling around I've found that many use corn or potato

starch

> as the carrier, which isn't that big of a deal to me but I've also

> heard conflicting information between websites, customer service

> reps, and production reps at companies.

>

> Any help would be much appreciated.

> Danny Johnson L.Ac.

>

>

>

> On Mar 23, 2006, at 4:41 PM, wrote:

>

> > Jason

> > I use slightly smaller doses unless i am really trying to pull

> > down. That is because there is a lot of starch in the KPC

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Alon,

 

There has to be a carrier, but why can't the marc be the carrier?

 

Kip

 

 

 

_____

 

 

On Behalf Of Alon Marcus

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:59 PM

 

Re: Re: Granules w/o starch

 

 

 

there has to be some kind of carrier for any powder extract, unless it is

liquid

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

J. van Es

@ <%40>

 

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:55 AM

Re: Granules w/o starch

 

Danny,

 

Check out E-Fong granules from Guangdong Yifang Pharmaceuticals.

They don't use any starch or binding agents.

 

J. van Es

@ <%40>

, Danny Johnson

<danny wrote:

>

> Hi,

> I'm thinking about incorporating herb granules into my practice.

Are

> there any companies that don't use anything but the herb as a

carrier

> for the granules?

> From calling around I've found that many use corn or potato

starch

> as the carrier, which isn't that big of a deal to me but I've also

> heard conflicting information between websites, customer service

> reps, and production reps at companies.

>

> Any help would be much appreciated.

> Danny Johnson L.Ac.

>

>

>

> On Mar 23, 2006, at 4:41 PM, wrote:

>

> > Jason

> > I use slightly smaller doses unless i am really trying to pull

> > down. That is because there is a lot of starch in the KPC

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

[Guest guest]

are they freeze drying the liquid

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

J. van Es

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:55 AM

Re: Granules w/o starch

 

 

Danny,

 

Check out E-Fong granules from Guangdong Yifang Pharmaceuticals.

They don't use any starch or binding agents.

 

J. van Es

, Danny Johnson

<danny wrote:

>

> Hi,

> I'm thinking about incorporating herb granules into my practice.

Are

> there any companies that don't use anything but the herb as a

carrier

> for the granules?

> From calling around I've found that many use corn or potato

starch

> as the carrier, which isn't that big of a deal to me but I've also

> heard conflicting information between websites, customer service

> reps, and production reps at companies.

>

> Any help would be much appreciated.

> Danny Johnson L.Ac.

>

>

>

> On Mar 23, 2006, at 4:41 PM, wrote:

>

> > Jason

> > I use slightly smaller doses unless i am really trying to pull

> > down. That is because there is a lot of starch in the KPC

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

J. Van Es

are they available in US?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

J. van Es

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:55 AM

Re: Granules w/o starch

 

 

Danny,

 

Check out E-Fong granules from Guangdong Yifang Pharmaceuticals.

They don't use any starch or binding agents.

 

J. van Es

, Danny Johnson

<danny wrote:

>

> Hi,

> I'm thinking about incorporating herb granules into my practice.

Are

> there any companies that don't use anything but the herb as a

carrier

> for the granules?

> From calling around I've found that many use corn or potato

starch

> as the carrier, which isn't that big of a deal to me but I've also

> heard conflicting information between websites, customer service

> reps, and production reps at companies.

>

> Any help would be much appreciated.

> Danny Johnson L.Ac.

>

>

>

> On Mar 23, 2006, at 4:41 PM, wrote:

>

> > Jason

> > I use slightly smaller doses unless i am really trying to pull

> > down. That is because there is a lot of starch in the KPC

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

what do you mean by marc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

kip

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 1:05 PM

RE: Re: Granules w/o starch

 

 

Hi Alon,

 

There has to be a carrier, but why can't the marc be the carrier?

 

Kip

 

_____

 

On Behalf Of Alon Marcus

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:59 PM

Re: Re: Granules w/o starch

 

there has to be some kind of carrier for any powder extract, unless it is

liquid

 

 

 

-

J. van Es

@ <%40>

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:55 AM

Re: Granules w/o starch

 

Danny,

 

Check out E-Fong granules from Guangdong Yifang Pharmaceuticals.

They don't use any starch or binding agents.

 

J. van Es

@ <%40>

, Danny Johnson

<danny wrote:

>

> Hi,

> I'm thinking about incorporating herb granules into my practice.

Are

> there any companies that don't use anything but the herb as a

carrier

> for the granules?

> From calling around I've found that many use corn or potato

starch

> as the carrier, which isn't that big of a deal to me but I've also

> heard conflicting information between websites, customer service

> reps, and production reps at companies.

>

> Any help would be much appreciated.

> Danny Johnson L.Ac.

>

>

>

> On Mar 23, 2006, at 4:41 PM, wrote:

>

> > Jason

> > I use slightly smaller doses unless i am really trying to pull

> > down. That is because there is a lot of starch in the KPC

> >

> >

> >

>

 

[Guest guest]

I can absolutely assure you that there does not have to be a carrier.

Without disclosing proprietary information, I can tell you that Blue

Poppy Herbs powdered extracts do not use a carrier. That's old technology.

 

Bob

[Guest guest]

But the benefit of the carrier is to maintain equal potency between batches,

right?

 

I am under the impression that the Taiwanese companies use starches and

sometimes ground-up herbs to maintain equal potencies to achieve their GMP

standards while mainland Chinese companies do not need to add carriers as

they are not subject to the same GMP standards as those from Taiwan.

 

Anybody know for sure?

 

On 3/21/07, Bob Flaws <pemachophel2001 wrote:

>

> I can absolutely assure you that there does not have to be a carrier.

> Without disclosing proprietary information, I can tell you that Blue

> Poppy Herbs powdered extracts do not use a carrier. That's old technology.

>

> Bob

>

 

 

 

--

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

The standards in Taiwan are dictated by Japan because they are the biggest

consumer. They require starch to be used as a carrier

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

Al Stone

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:12 PM

Re: Re: Granules w/o starch

 

 

But the benefit of the carrier is to maintain equal potency between batches,

right?

 

I am under the impression that the Taiwanese companies use starches and

sometimes ground-up herbs to maintain equal potencies to achieve their GMP

standards while mainland Chinese companies do not need to add carriers as

they are not subject to the same GMP standards as those from Taiwan.

 

Anybody know for sure?

 

On 3/21/07, Bob Flaws <pemachophel2001 wrote:

>

> I can absolutely assure you that there does not have to be a carrier.

> Without disclosing proprietary information, I can tell you that Blue

> Poppy Herbs powdered extracts do not use a carrier. That's old technology.

>

> Bob

>

 

--

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

[Guest guest]

unless they are freeze dried there has to be something, unless there is a new

tech info on which should be available. I will look into it. The other reason to

use a carrier is that without it the powder can be too hydrophilic

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

Bob Flaws

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 1:59 PM

Re: Granules w/o starch

 

 

I can absolutely assure you that there does not have to be a carrier.

Without disclosing proprietary information, I can tell you that Blue

Poppy Herbs powdered extracts do not use a carrier. That's old technology.

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

The marc is the leftover plant material after extraction. It is my

understanding that many companies spray the concentrated extract of the

medicinal back onto the marc instead of using starch.

 

Kip

 

 

 

_____

 

 

On Behalf Of Alon Marcus

 

what do you mean by marc

 

 

 

 

kip (AT) rosemanclinic (DOT) <kip%40rosemanclinic.com> com

Re: Granules w/o starch

 

Hi Alon,

 

There has to be a carrier, but why can't the marc be the carrier?

 

Kip

 

_____

[Guest guest]

Alon,

 

Yes, they are available in the U.S. through Health Source. I

recommend going to the website www.e-fong.com. They also have a

detailed flow chart of their manufacturing process on the website.

 

Best,

 

J. van Es

 

, " Alon Marcus "

<alonmarcus wrote:

>

> J. Van Es

> are they available in US?

>

>

>

 

>

>

> -

> J. van Es

 

>

>

> Danny,

>

> Check out E-Fong granules from Guangdong Yifang Pharmaceuticals.

> They don't use any starch or binding agents.

>

[Guest guest]

not in Taiwan because of japan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

kip

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:04 PM

RE: Re: Granules w/o starch

 

 

The marc is the leftover plant material after extraction. It is my

understanding that many companies spray the concentrated extract of the

medicinal back onto the marc instead of using starch.

 

Kip

 

_____

 

On Behalf Of Alon Marcus

 

what do you mean by marc

 

 

kip (AT) rosemanclinic (DOT) <kip%40rosemanclinic.com> com

Re: Granules w/o starch

 

Hi Alon,

 

There has to be a carrier, but why can't the marc be the carrier?

 

Kip

 

_____

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Interesting, at the site they only talk about adding starch at the crushing

stage. Usually the substrate is added at the spray drying stage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

J. van Es

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:39 PM

Re: Granules w/o starch

 

 

Alon,

 

Yes, they are available in the U.S. through Health Source. I

recommend going to the website www.e-fong.com. They also have a

detailed flow chart of their manufacturing process on the website.

 

Best,

 

J. van Es

 

, " Alon Marcus "

<alonmarcus wrote:

>

> J. Van Es

> are they available in US?

>

>

>

 

>

>

> -

> J. van Es

 

>

>

> Danny,

>

> Check out E-Fong granules from Guangdong Yifang Pharmaceuticals.

> They don't use any starch or binding agents.

>

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

J Van ES

what is health source. do you have a webpage

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

J. van Es

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:39 PM

Re: Granules w/o starch

 

 

Alon,

 

Yes, they are available in the U.S. through Health Source. I

recommend going to the website www.e-fong.com. They also have a

detailed flow chart of their manufacturing process on the website.

 

Best,

 

J. van Es

 

, " Alon Marcus "

<alonmarcus wrote:

>

> J. Van Es

> are they available in US?

>

>

>

 

>

>

> -

> J. van Es

 

>

>

> Danny,

>

> Check out E-Fong granules from Guangdong Yifang Pharmaceuticals.

> They don't use any starch or binding agents.

>

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

What I've been told is that to get a GMP standard - that the marc herbs cannot

be put back

into the extract as a binder. This is because the marc will contain too many

heavy metals and

other adulterants.

Also that the medical standard is to use potato starch.

 

Doug

 

> Interesting, at the site they only talk about adding starch at the crushing

stage. Usually the

substrate is added at the spray drying stage.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That is interesting, because I would've thought that the remaining cellulose

wouldn't have has much content of anything compared to the extract itself.

 

Kip

 

 

 

_____

 

 

On Behalf Of

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:36 PM

 

Re: Granules w/o starch

 

 

 

What I've been told is that to get a GMP standard - that the marc herbs

cannot be put back

into the extract as a binder. This is because the marc will contain too many

heavy metals and

other adulterants.

Also that the medical standard is to use potato starch.

 

Doug

 

> Interesting, at the site they only talk about adding starch at the

crushing stage. Usually the

substrate is added at the spray drying stage.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Quali uses pharmaceutical grade corn starch

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:36 PM

Re: Granules w/o starch

 

 

What I've been told is that to get a GMP standard - that the marc herbs cannot

be put back

into the extract as a binder. This is because the marc will contain too many

heavy metals and

other adulterants.

Also that the medical standard is to use potato starch.

 

Doug

 

> Interesting, at the site they only talk about adding starch at the crushing

stage. Usually the

substrate is added at the spray drying stage.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I gave my sister Quali herbs once and she got a very bad food

senstivity reaction the same way she does with processed soy. She says

she doesn't get the same reaction from corn so I'm not sure what is

going on.

Doug

 

 

, " Alon Marcus "

<alonmarcus wrote:

>

> Quali uses pharmaceutical grade corn starch

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -

>

>

> Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:36 PM

> Re: Granules w/o starch

>

>

> What I've been told is that to get a GMP standard - that the marc

herbs cannot be put back

> into the extract as a binder. This is because the marc will

contain too many heavy metals and

> other adulterants.

> Also that the medical standard is to use potato starch.

>

> Doug

>

> > Interesting, at the site they only talk about adding starch at

the crushing stage. Usually the

> substrate is added at the spray drying stage.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

KPC uses both potato starch and marc to make their granules:

 

" In a completely enclosed chamber, protected against

cross-contamination, the concentrated herb extracts undergo a

non-continuous granulation process known as flow coating. The

concentrate is sprayed either on potato starch particles or particles

of the same herb(s) and is subsequently vacuum-dried at low temperature. "

 

plus some pictures @ http://www.sinecura.be/

 

Tom.

 

, " Alon Marcus "

<alonmarcus wrote:

>

> not in Taiwan because of japan

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> kip

>

> Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:04 PM

> RE: Re: Granules w/o starch

>

>

> The marc is the leftover plant material after extraction. It is my

> understanding that many companies spray the concentrated extract

of the

> medicinal back onto the marc instead of using starch.

>

> Kip

>

[Guest guest]

Doug

Perhaps there was some soy in the system when they produced that batch, or it

may have been unrelated to the herbs. Since they use the same equipment to

process all the formulas minute amount of herbs are likely to be found in

different batches. They always do the required GMP cleaning between batches but

still that cant be 100%. I visited their factory (they also now have a new state

of the art factory) and they do a very good job at all stages of the process.

They use high quality raw materials which i think is the most important part of

the process as can easily be demonstrated when you taste their final products.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:38 PM

Re: Granules w/o starch

 

 

I gave my sister Quali herbs once and she got a very bad food

senstivity reaction the same way she does with processed soy. She says

she doesn't get the same reaction from corn so I'm not sure what is

going on.

Doug

 

, " Alon Marcus "

<alonmarcus wrote:

>

> Quali uses pharmaceutical grade corn starch

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -

>

>

> Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:36 PM

> Re: Granules w/o starch

>

>

> What I've been told is that to get a GMP standard - that the marc

herbs cannot be put back

> into the extract as a binder. This is because the marc will

contain too many heavy metals and

> other adulterants.

> Also that the medical standard is to use potato starch.

>

> Doug

>

> > Interesting, at the site they only talk about adding starch at

the crushing stage. Usually the

> substrate is added at the spray drying stage.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tom

Do you know if KPC is able to sell in Japan the formulas that contain marc? When

i visited Sheng Chang (Quali) they told me you cant do that if you are to sell

in Japan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

Tom Verhaeghe

Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:27 AM

Re: Granules w/o starch

 

 

KPC uses both potato starch and marc to make their granules:

 

" In a completely enclosed chamber, protected against

cross-contamination, the concentrated herb extracts undergo a

non-continuous granulation process known as flow coating. The

concentrate is sprayed either on potato starch particles or particles

of the same herb(s) and is subsequently vacuum-dried at low temperature. "

 

plus some pictures @ http://www.sinecura.be/

 

Tom.

 

, " Alon Marcus "

<alonmarcus wrote:

>

> not in Taiwan because of japan

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> kip

>

> Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:04 PM

> RE: Re: Granules w/o starch

>

>

> The marc is the leftover plant material after extraction. It is my

> understanding that many companies spray the concentrated extract

of the

> medicinal back onto the marc instead of using starch.

>

> Kip

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Alon,

 

Where do you source your Sheng Chang/ Quali granules? I couldn't

find a website.

 

Thanks,

 

Jan

 

, " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus

wrote:

>

> Tom

> Do you know if KPC is able to sell in Japan the formulas that

contain marc? When i visited Sheng Chang (Quali) they told me you

cant do that if you are to sell in Japan

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> Tom Verhaeghe

>

> Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:27 AM

> Re: Granules w/o starch

>

>

> KPC uses both potato starch and marc to make their granules:

>

> " In a completely enclosed chamber, protected against

> cross-contamination, the concentrated herb extracts undergo a

> non-continuous granulation process known as flow coating. The

> concentrate is sprayed either on potato starch particles or

particles

> of the same herb(s) and is subsequently vacuum-dried at low

temperature. "

>

> plus some pictures @ http://www.sinecura.be/

>

> Tom.

>

> , " Alon Marcus "

> <alonmarcus@> wrote:

> >

> > not in Taiwan because of japan

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > kip@

> >

> > Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:04 PM

> > RE: Re: Granules w/o starch

> >

> >

> > The marc is the leftover plant material after extraction. It is

my

> > understanding that many companies spray the concentrated extract

> of the

> > medicinal back onto the marc instead of using starch.

> >

> > Kip

>

[Guest guest]

Alon,

I agree. I went to KPC and SunTen factories tours in Taiwan at last 2 years.

They did a very good job of all stages of the process. I knew SunTen is the

first Taiwanese company to sale Granules to Japan.

 

 

 

Ta-Ya Lee, MSN, CRNP, MAc, LAc, MBA

Johns Hopkins Community Physicians

Wyman Park Internal Medicine

Phone 410-338-3421 Fax 410-338-3413

 

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