CM books & continuing education

July 17, 2003

Jim suggests an interesting question: asking prospective DAOM

candidates how many books on CM & acupuncture they have read. I

believe what Jim is getting at is that all too few of our graduates

are active continuing students and readers within this field.

Recently, this has been a big discussion at Blue Poppy. What

percentage of graduates go on to continuously buy and read books on

acupuncture and CM? Based on Blue Poppy Press sales figures, I would

say only a small percentage of graduates go on to be active continuing

education readers and book-buyers. By active, I mean 5-7 or more books

per year. By small percentage, I'd put the number at 10% or less.

Further, the books which do sell best are typically the simplest reads

offering the most cookbook approaches. (Please don't ask me to name

names.)

Our general manager has been running the numbers on copies of

individual books sold over the last one year period. He's lobbying for

discontinuing the sale of any titles not selling at least 100 copies

per year. Almost all of our Great Masters series fail to meet this

requirement. The number 100 has to do with POD (print on demand)

economics and capablities. This means Blue Poppy Press will probably

be letting a number of titles go out of print as current inventories

sell out. Although these books will still be available in e-book form

(such as through Net Library) for serious researchers, they will not

be available in hardcopy.

From where I sit, it seems that books have one main chance to sell

within this niche market and that is if they are required as textbooks

in entry-level education. Books that are not required or seriously

recommended tend to languish in publisher's limbo no matter how good

they are. It is ironic that students and practitioners are always

repeating the sibboleth about how we need to get back to the " real "

Chinese medicine embodied in the classics. However, when those

classics are offered for sale in English, people do not buy them. As a

for instance, only 31 copies of the Jia Yi Jing sold during all of

2002. So there seems to be a big disconnect between what many people

say and what people actually support with their pocketbooks. (Duh.)

As the total number of books in English on Chinese medicine continues

to rise, it means that publishers can expect a decreasing piece of the

pie for any one title. Because the total market size is not increasing

as fast as many people once assumed (due to attrition), this makes

publishing books for this market less and less financially attractive

and especially books which target slower selling niches within this

overall niche, such as the classics. It also makes it less attractive

to sink a lot of time and money into the creation of high quality

books which then must compete with lower quality imports.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: As long as the schools keep

doing things the way they are doing them (as described by recent CHA

posts from current students), this situation isn't going to change. If

you keep doing what you're doing, you keep getting what you're

currently getting: too many ignorant teachers teaching too many lazy,

intellectually stunted students.

Bob

, " James Ramholz "

<jramholz> wrote:

> ,

> > I think we may have to develop a separate PhD program in TCM

> that will meet the needs of scholars, reserachers and translators.

> Because the DAOM is designed mainly to produce specialty clinicians

> and it will not be able to meet these other needs, IMO, whatever its

> stated goals. However, with skillful use of technology, 10 credits

> at PCOM could result in some functional access to some chinese

> medical literature. >>>

>

:

>

> As part of their application to the DAOM, you should ask people how

> many books from the acupuncture and herb sections of the Redwing

> catalog they have bought and read!

>

> Jim Ramholz

July 17, 2003

, " Bob Flaws " <

pemachophel2001> wrote:

So there seems to be a big disconnect between what many people

> say and what people actually support with their pocketbooks. (Duh.)

many of those who whine about TCM and bemoan the loss of " classical CM " are

actually whining about having to study. while we have serious scholars in this

field, many are just looking for an excuse to not study at all. face it, we

have a

largely anti intellectual profession, many of whom have somehow gotten the

idea that classical CM is based upon qi gong practice, intention and intuition,

the latter 2 being ill defined terms that do not actually seem to appear in CM

literature I have read. So when they say they want it classical, they are

saying

they do not want to study. the irony being that true classical CM was much

more of an intellectual study than the modern version ever purported to be.

quite a few students who whine about the dominance of herbology over

acupuncture at certain schools claim they were deceived at admissions, being

told whatever they wanted to hear, but not being told that TCM is herbology

and reading is fundamental to the task. I think people hear what they want to

hear, then look for scapegoats later, but whatever ... The fact is that many of

the students should be studying something or somewhere else whether they

were self deceived or actively deceived. Either way, TCM has always been

about herbology and reading and if that is not what you want to do, then you

don't belong here. We can't change what TCM is to suit one's proclivities,

which is a point Rory made a month back. but if we are going to continue to

allow people to become L.Ac.'s with 1900 hours of acupuncture only in some

states, then we must recognize that we are talking about a lower level of

practitioner here.

It is my understanding that those who solely practice acupuncture have not

typically been considered doctors in ancient china. In modern japan,

acupuncturists are legally defined in a way that is more akin to massage.

Arguably, acupuncture is merely a sophisticated form of bodywork and should

be regulated as such for those who practice it solo. In fact, many such

practitioners integrate other forms of bodywork heavily into their practices,

while many herbalists are more drawn to other forms of internal med

(vitamins, western herbs, even drugs, etc.). but if there is a heavy contingent

of would be acupuncturists who are not seriously interested in herbology

(which is most students, IMO), is this not more reason to have a multi-tiered

profession. Or should we just shut out those who would be bodyworkers or

shrinks instead of physicians? And force everyone to reach the DAOM level.

Personally I wouldn't mind be a DAOM, owning a clinic, hiring a few acus and

letting them do the bodywork. If I could find acus who only spent 15-20

grand to go to school, I could pay them a living wage, give my patients fair

prices and make a profit myself. If many acus are practicing safely at

essentially this level already, why shouldn't this lower tier continue to exist

indefinitely.

July 17, 2003

At 3:11 PM +0000 7/17/03, Bob Flaws wrote:

As a

for instance, only 31 copies of the Jia Yi Jing sold during all

of

2002.

--

Bob,

Coincidentally, this morning I ordered a copy of the Jia Yi Jing.

It's very sad that books like this cannot remain in print. I know at

least colleague who uses Jia Yi Jing as a recommended text. I must

point out however that it's a rather expensive book to require

students to buy, when it is one amongst several for the class, so

students who bother with the readings probably use the library

edition. Perhaps if it had been paperbound it would have had a more

successful life.

Even so, for books of this intrinsic value, would it not be

possible for Blue Poppy to print up 100 copies, or whatever number

makes sense, each time it goes out of print. I realize the economic

issues involved, but in my estimation Blue Poppy Press has gained a

special credibility for having brought classic and important early

literature to the English language market. Is it really not viable to

do this for a selected list of books?

If you (BP) were to do this, and perhaps design some CE materials

around these materials, that might enhance their market

justification.

Rory -- naive idealist that I am

--

July 17, 2003

Bob Flaws [pemachophel2001]

wrote:

>He's lobbying for discontinuing the

>sale of any titles not selling at least 100 copies

>per year. Almost all of our Great Masters series fail

>to meet this requirement. The number 100 has to do

>with POD (print on demand) economics and capablities.

>This means Blue Poppy Press will probably be letting

>a number of titles go out of print as current inventories

>sell out.

Why not print the out of print titles in manuscript form like Subhuti

does (Bag of Pearls)? This would keep costs to a minimum, and

would allow titles to stay alive. I’m sure most of us would prefer

a traditionally bound text, however no one profits when a book completely

disappears from the shelves, except I suppose eBay.

-Tim

July 17, 2003

" If many acus are practicing safely at essentially this level already,

why shouldn't this lower tier continue to exist indefinitely? "

No complaint from me.

Bob

July 17, 2003

Rory,

> Even so, for books of this intrinsic value, would it not be possible

> for Blue Poppy to print up 100 copies, or whatever number makes

> sense, each time it goes out of print?

Printing less than 100 books even POD is not economically feasible,

nor is storing and paying tax and insurance on books that sit in a

warehouse for more than a year.

>

perhaps design some CE materials

> around these materials, that might enhance their market

justification.

>

Interesting idea, that last one.

Bob

July 17, 2003

why not print together 2 or 3 classics in one volume?

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July 17, 2003

What is a good selling book numbers per year?

Alon

July 17, 2003

, " Bob Flaws "

<pemachophel2001> wrote:

> Jim suggests an interesting question: asking prospective DAOM

> candidates how many books on CM & acupuncture they have read. I

> believe what Jim is getting at is that all too few of our

graduates are active continuing students and readers within this

field. >>>

Bob:

Exactly. Thanks for your post about the publishing end of the

business. It's reassuring to know that you're committed to having

the less popular books still be available through books on demand or

electronic format. The profession owes you a thanks for that.

Practitioners who haven't bought at least the 7 books a year, should

not be allowed to post on the CHA, either.

Jim Ramholz

July 17, 2003

Jim Ramholz: Practitioners who haven't bought at least the 7 books a year,

should

not be allowed to post on the CHA, either.

Well, how nice that you guys can afford all those books. Those big ones,

like the new Shang Han Lun, are expensive (I did buy it anyway). I'm

reading 7-10 books a year: buying maybe 4, and the rest (plus numerous

articles) I read from the library. Lucky me, to have a library nearby with

those particular books. However much I would like to support publishers

like Bob Flaws, the financial realities differ. Just because people can't

afford (hopefully only temporarily) to shell it out, doesn't mean they're

not reading or that they are " lesser " practitioners. May Heaven's

blessings of prosperity shine upon us all.

Pat

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July 17, 2003

, " Bob Flaws " wrote:

> perhaps design some CE materials

> > around these materials, that might enhance their market

> justification.

> >

> Interesting idea, that last one.

Bob:

I may have misread your last post. I hope you will continue to make

the old texts available, if not through POD, then in some sort of

electronic format such as a PDF file or searchable Web library (you

could charge for subscription).

You can scan a book into Adobe Acrobat directly t make it a PDF

file, and assign various security levels. It should be economically

attactive to BP. Andy Ellis and Deadman have titles in PDF format.

Jim Ramholz

July 17, 2003

Dear Bob,

From my own recent experience as a student and graduate, your concerns about students not reading sufficiently after graduation is spot on! This extends to periods of actual study as well........so many students want as little reading as possible in a succinct format with the aim of only having to learn that material to pass the exams, graduate and make money with a “cool” medicine.

Personally, both through my student years (official student years....I believe I will always remain a student of TCM) I know I purchased and read more texts than anyone else in my course. Rather than spend my spare cash on cool clothes and bar nights, I bought frighteningly expensive Chinese medicine texts. Did this help me in my university studies as far as passing exams is concerned? Well, unfortunately I can not say it did.......in fact, I would say it was slightly detrimental in this area. Has it helped me become a better practitioner or a better human being? CERTAINLY!!!

I continue to read and purchase texts at a what my family feels is at a slightly obsessive rate. But I know that the majority of my fellow graduates would be lucky to have bought a single text after graduation, especially other than what you rightly call a “Cookbook” or what I would call “how to treat any pain in ten minutes” type of text.

To me, and I am sure most on this list this is a tragic and frightening situation. At the university I studied this situation is dramatically improving as demand for places has exponentially increased in recent years (only 25 places are on offer) which has resulted in required entry scores approaching that of biomedicine and more meaningful selection interviews. This has led to the students being admitted being both more intellectually gifted, dedicated and serious about study and healthcare. Places are no longer available for those who are just “interested” or bored.

Personally, I would just like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for your efforts in translating and publishing a invaluable resource of TCM in English for those of us who are dedicated to being the best we can be as physicians and students for life!!!! I sincerely hope that economic realities have as little affect as possible on the availability of your generous contribution to native English speaking TCM practitioners.

Sincerely,

Steve (a student for life)

On 18/7/03 1:11 AM, " Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001 wrote: