What's in a Name? The Future of the Medicine.

January 6, 2010

This is an issue that demands that either we become the goto providers for

acupuncture or we rely upon the MD's to send us patients and they remain the

goto providers for info. It is either one way or the other. I would prefer

that we speak for our own medicine, that way we can apply its principles

correctly and get better results.

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

> Chinese Traditional Medicine

> SimonBethel

> Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:02:11 -0700

> RE: What's in a Name? The Future of the Medicine.

>

> The dominant medical culture in which we live is that of Western Medicine,

that is something we cannot change. In order to understand it and work with

it,and around it, we have to learn it's language. That doesn't mean we give up

our own, on the contrary, it means we all become bi-lingual. One foot in our own

Chinese medicine and the other in Western medicine and that we move seemlessly

between the two, the ancient and the new.

>

> And we don't get hung up on one or the other!

>

> Simon

>

> Chinese Medicine

> subincor

> Tue, 5 Jan 2010 20:19:51 +0000

> Re: What's in a Name? The Future of the Medicine.

>

> Hi Mike:

>

> I honestly feel nervous when I hear the following, although I am not sure i am

reading you right:

>

> --Mike-

> We need to have a stronger understanding of both, east and western

> medical understanding like our Asian-trained counterparts. Larger

> knowledge base is important for treatment options.

> ---

>

> Which asian-trained counterparts? My lineage teacher who received no western

medical training? Why do we need the larger knowledge base for expanding our

treatment options? How many of us can claim to be using CM to its full, or close

to full, effectiveness? If the answer is " no, I'm not " , the solution is not

" tack some western medicine on " .

>

> I also ask you, Mike, to not forget that some of our asian-trained

counterparts have some very harsh things to say about CM in the present:

>

> " In

> recent years, the unique characteristics of

> Chinese medicine, its advantages over Western medicine, and its

> standards of academic excellence have not been developed according to

> the wishes of the people, but have rather been tossed into a state of

> severe crisis and chaotic actions.

> Underneath

> the bright and cheap glitter at the surface, the essence and the

> characteristics of Chinese medicine are being metamorphosed and

> annihilated at a most perturbing rate. The primary expression of this

> crisis is the Westernisation of all guiding principles and

> methodologies of Chinese medicine.”

>

> Lü

> Bingkui, former director of the PRC's Ministry of TCM

> Administration, July 1991

> The history of Ayurveda in India is almost identical. Both China and India ran

an all-out government experiment to modernise, scientise and integrate their

medical systems. And both have had almost identical results: poor quality

training, students who don't really understand the medicine, yet have quite a

bit of western medical training, but, grotesquely, not enough to be western

medical doctors. The final results leading to " doctors " who don't know how to

treat using the indigenous medical system and maybe don't even want to treat

with it, and a growing understanding that soemwhere along the line a grievous

error was committed.

> We can learn a lot from the mistakes committed in Asia.

>

> Hugo

>

> ________________________________

> Hugo Ramiro

> http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> http://www.middlemedicine.org

>

> ________________________________

> mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

> Chinese Traditional Medicine

> Tue, 5 January, 2010 10:53:02

> RE: What's in a Name? The Future of the Medicine.

>

> I am hearing a tone of exclusion in this thread and I happen to think that

neither position is correct. We need to have a stronger understanding of both,

east and western medical understanding like our Asian-trained counterparts.

Larger knowledge base is important for treatment options.

>

> Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

>

> Chinese Medicine

> zaranski

> Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:27:42 +0000

> Re: What's in a Name? The Future of the Medicine.

>

> New Clients often arrive with western diagnoses, but they always still have

their problem. The reason they come is because, despite having a wonderful and

important sounding diagnosis, THEY STILL HAVE THEIR PROBLEM. Receiving a WM

diagnosis does not make their problem go away, and evidently neither did the

various WM treatments for said diagnosed malady.

>

> They ask " Do you have a record of success treating ____________? "

>

> Then the education process begins. Our Clients hear the language of CM in

their diagnosis, hear their herb formulas called by their chinese names, and

begin to use the language themselves on a beginner level. They tell their

friends " I used up too much Yin so I need to make more, " or " they said my Qi was

stuck. "

>

> Often they seem relieved to find we have a different take on their problem,

and thrilled to find that we can very effectively treat that which could not be

treated effectively by their WM practitioner.

>

> If we focus on symptoms and wm diagnoses we can be really little more help

than their WM Docs. Maybe we can substitue acu/moxa/herbs for their pain

medication. whoopee!

>

> If we do our JOBS correctly, we can correct root imbalances and peoples lives

change! Do this well and repeatedly and YOUR life will change.

>

> Mark Z

>

> Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro

<subincor wrote:

> >

> > Hi Z'ev, yes it seems I very much spoke out of turn, although I don't agree

with Will Morris exactly. I fully retract my initial judgement of calling him a

goof. Totally inappropriate. Here's the relevant piece of the article which I

just read:

> >

> > --William Morris / Acupuncture Today-

> > Participating acupuncturists must adapt appropriate physical

> > assessment, outcomes measures and report-writing to the culture of

> > occupational medicine. Liver qi stagnation and the five

> > elements, while important as an in-discipline model of thought, will

> > not work in that environment. We must give up the idea that others will

> > accept our nomenclature. It is ours and we need it, but they don't. We

> > must therefore communicate in a way that our listeners can hear.

> > ---

> >

> > To communicate in a way that my listeners can hear is very important, but to

eliminate myself from the picture is impossible. In other words, if what I am

*truly* doing is treating Liver Qi stagnation, then, somehow, that fact will

express itself, and likely, it will permeate who I am and what I do, even when I

am co-opting western medical terminology and differentials for my purposes.

> >

> > To pretend that corporations (for example) will not " cave " to our concepts

is to ignore that they have caved in every instance where the circumstances or

the consumers have demanded that they do so. If it is our concepts which allow

us to provide a sustainable medicine, then it is unavoidable that people of all

walks of life accept our terms. Our terms, after all, are based on repeated,

tested, observations.

> >

> > We must also remember that the people who approach us, be they patients,

representatives of biomedicine and so on, approach us in part *because* of our

terminology. People are tired of the machine metaphor. The machine metaphor will

kill us - it is *that* which must be given up.

> >

> > On a practical note, it is perfectly possible in my point of view to retain

both terminologies and differentials, one for communication, and the other for

the real work. Just so long as that is the hierarchy that is present.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Hugo

> >

> > ________________________________

> > Hugo Ramiro

> > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> > http://www.middlemedicine.org

> >

> > ________________________________

> > <zrosenbe

> > Chinese Medicine

> > Mon, 4 January, 2010 17:43:50

> > Re: What's in a Name? The Future of the Medicine.

> >

> > Hugo,

> > I haven't read the article yet, but I'd be pretty surprised if Will was

recommending giving up the language of Chinese medicine, knowing how dedicated

he is to the classical medicine, especially pulse diagnosis.

> >

> > Having said that, I think you've hit the issue right on the head. If we

innately feel that biomedicine is the only 'true' reality in medicine, and that

what Chinese medicine describes is a fiction, then the profession will fade away

eventually and only the needles will survive, not the theory, the herbs, or the

moxa.

> >

> > On Jan 4, 2010, at 1:01 PM, Hugo Ramiro wrote:

> >

> > > Hi Andrea Beth and all:

> > >

> > > --Andrea Beth-

> > >

> > > We are not of unified opinion on:

> > > " medical " acupuncturists

> > > the FPD

> > > what to call ourselves

> > > whether we should all be trained in herbal medicine in addition to

> > > acupuncture (be TCM practitioners) or continue to have 2 separate

> > > categories of acupuncturists - those who incorporate herbal medicine

> > > and those who don't... I see this as a very big source of confusion for

> > > our public identity...

> > > and other issues that affect our profession and threaten our livelihood

> > > ---

> > >

> > > From my p.o.v. all of the above boil down to one thing, and one thing

only, and it is the thing we must answer *first*:

> > >

> > > Do we, as individuals, buy into CM, or do we buy into WM?

> > >

> > > Do we actually believe there is a real thing " parkinson's " ? Do we feel

confused when we think " damp " ?

> > > Do we actually buy that " erythema multiformis " is a specialist term

originating from a super-advanced technological medicine...or do we *clearly*

understand that erythema multiformis is a " common language " description from a

language so archaic it's DEAD and meaning no more than (literally) " red skin

many shapes " .

> > >

> > > And yet we have the goof in Austin saying that we have to give up our

" archaic " language because...there's another *more* archaic language that we'd

rather use?!

> > >

> > > Let's look at a few WM diagnoses:

> > >

> > > Schizophrenia - Split Diaphragm / Split Mind (same Phren from phrenology

by the way)

> > > Diabetes - " To pass through " . Diarrhea? No, Dia/betes/. Just trying to be

specific.

> > > Angina Pectoris - Strangulation in the chest

> > > Idiopathic Neuralgia - Something hurts and we don't know how or why

(literally). But we have a name. Ok, ok, let's give that one another shot:

> > > Idiopathic Neuralgia - Comes-from-private-suffering Vigor-Sinew pain.

> > > Lupus Erythematosus - Wolf Red Sea-Mullet on the skin (that is *spooky*,

people, *spooky*)

> > >

> > > I hope I amuse you guys.

> > >

> > > So just to tie this one up: what we might want to look at as a profession

is a course called " yin yang theory " , and if you don't get it, you don't get it

(the degree / certification). I really feel that if we did that, a lot of our

problems would vanish. How to defeat your enemy? Divide their attention, cause

them to doubt themselves. Our attention is being divided very effectively, from

my p.o.v.

> > >

> > > Happy 2010 everyone!

> > > Hugo

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > Hugo Ramiro

> > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> > > http://www.middlemedicine.org

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > <

> > > Chinese Medicine

> > > Mon, 4 January, 2010 11:05:34

> > > Re: What's in a Name? The Future of the Medicine.

> > >

> > > First the western medical professions take over our medicine, then the

military, and now here comes the FPD. I think the future looks bleak for

acupuncturists (oops, TCM practitioners - but, by the way, no one where I live

has any idea what TCM is, aside from other LAc's), with or without the FPD.

> > >

> > > Plus, we are lacking a national standard for practice in all 50 of the

United States; indeed, there are some states which still lack an acupuncture

statute, and others require education only in acupuncture (and not also herbal

medicine) for licensure. Still other states authorize only " doctors " to practice

acupuncture. Those that do license acupuncturists, all have differing

educational and exam requirements. How can we be unified on anything, if we are

not trained equally?

> > >

> > > Even if we were unified in our opinion and strategies for addressing these

issues, we don't have the numbers of practitioners and deep pockets needed to

defend our profession properly. Poor business sense compounds these problems.

> > >

> > > If any of our brothers and sisters in other countries have addressed these

issues in ways that have been fruitful, I for one, would like to hear from them.

What has been useful, and how is it working?

> > >

> > > Thank you,

> > > Andrea Beth

> > >

> > > Traditional Oriental Medicine

> > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center

> > > 635 S. 10th St.

> > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326

> > > (928) 274-1373

> > >

> > > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, zedbowls <zaranski (AT) verizon (DOT) net> wrote:

> > >

> > > zedbowls <zaranski (AT) verizon (DOT) net>

> > > Re: What's in a Name? The Future of the Medicine.

> > >

> > > Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:01 AM

> > >

> > > <heylaurag@ ..> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > We have a strong underground following that already knows us as

" Traditional " shortened to TCM or Chinese medicine. It makes no

business sense whatsoever to give that up. I have to say, our profession

generally lacks business sense, sadly.

> > > >

> > > > Laura

> > > Acupuncture Today (jan 2010, vol 11 no 1) leads of with Will Morris' The

Bright Future Of Acupuncture wherein he tells us that Acupuncture gained

recognition in 2009 and has a brand name that shines brightly in the media (at

least in 2009)due mainly to a MLB pitcher and a tv danc-show contestent.

> > >

> > > The article goes on to explain that Acupuncture will grow thru low price

models appealing to corporations and government, that community-style

acupuncture will grow and be supported by governments, that our traditional

nomenclature (Liver Qi stagnation with Spleen Qi deficiency) is archaic and must

be replaced with the language of occupational medicine, that we must develop

specialties and quickly evolve to the FPD.

> > >

> > > Mr. Morris is the president of Autin, Tx's Academy of Oriental Medicine,

influential to other academics and to many future students. However, He is not a

private clinician, and I do not feel he at all represents those who are, and his

future is certainly not what I am interested in. His retoric is prime example of

what Laura points out: LACK OF BUSINESS SENSE.

> > >

> > > The last thing I want is to look to the government for money to treat

people. Can anyone point me to a successful (U.S.) program where a)patients are

thrilled with the results of the care they receive and b) practitioners are

happy with the working environment (paperwork, etc.) and the compensation they

receive (think Veterens Administration) ???????

> > >

> > > Blend-in, be the low-price leader by any means, give the schools more

money...these are the steps to success???

> > >

> > > I strongly doubt others on this list who are making excellent livings

practicing whatever form (by whatever name) of oriental medicine will agree that

Will's vision is their own.

> > >

> > > I think the government should go back to having public hospitals (you

remember the County Hospital, don't you?) available for those who have no other

health care to turn to. As in the past, those who could make other arrangements

(private physician, private insurance, whatever) typically avoided the County

Hospital and chose their own provider.

> > >

> > > We need less government, not more. We need people to take responsibility

for themselves, their families, and their choices.

> > >

> > > Less than 3% of our Clinic's income came from insurance reimbursement of

any kind in 2009, and thats the way I like it. Clients pay cash, check,

visa/mastercard/ discover for what they want: safe, effective, gentle treatments

with documented progress and true recovery without dangerous drugs (with myriad

" side " effects) and without unneccessary surgeries.

> > >

> > > Mark Z

> > >

> > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > >

> > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times

http://www.chinesem edicinetimes. com

> > >

> > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine

and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesem edicinetimes. com/wiki/ CMTpedia

> > >

> > > http://groups. /

group/Traditiona l_Chinese_ Medicine/ join and adjust accordingly.

> > >

> > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

necessary.

January 6, 2010

Hi Mike, I am in support of the doctoral program, by the way. And I do think

that some education in western medicine is important--especially in order to

enable us to know when to refer in emergency situations. This was a solid

aspect of my program, so I've just assumed it was for everyone. Isn't that a

standard of our profession?

But I do think our education could easily be watered down by too much western

medicine in our program. and I do think that there is a basic premise that

needs to be remembered while designing these programs--that we do not need to

know anythng about western medicine to be excellent practioners of chinese

medicine. I believe that is true. But I do think that we should know enough to

know when to refer, which is already part of our education.

BTW--I enjoyed my western science classes.

Laura

Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser

<naturaldoc1 wrote:

>

> Laura,

>

> I can easily see how this stance can lead us toward an error in thinking that

we can treat this or that better then anyone else. My first question on this,

is how do you know? We have little data on our successes and what little we

have is inadequate. If you are wanting to participate in treating more serious

or complex conditions, then we must know the language of science and also

physiology. Notice that I mention science and not medicince. Western medicine

has taken a dim view on some areas of science that clearly they are incorrect

on, so everything is not so clear.

>

> I have stated that we should learn as much CM as possible but few understand

that western science is a big part of TCM (open up a TCM textbook). Learning

both in greater detail would allow us to become more utilized and accepted as a

profession. The attempts to somehow reduce our education is not likely to

happen nor is it responsible. If we want to remain independent, as we are in

most states, then we need to have sufficient standards to know about red flag

conditions and appropriate referral. Otherwise, we will start to see

practitioners in jail, muich like the so-called alternative practitioners that

make claims to treat any and everything. We have dug ourselves out of the

healthcare cellar, so-to-speak, and we should not be looking to get back into it

so quickly.

>

> At some point in time, we will need to acknowledge that our profession here is

small and that the global profession does not share this view. The larger group

of Asian-trained practitioners is much more in line with having higher

standards, and yes even the FPD/DAOM. A study on this info has been published

from one of our associations (about 600 Asian practitioners were in support at

one meeting). We run the risk of separating ourselves from the rest of the

profession, which can be problematic. We need their support.

>

> How many on this group actually are involved with OM education and school

accreditation? Understanding this issue is much more complex then simply

posting an emotional response reflected towards our OM education. I am thinking

that many did not like their science courses and resented taking them. Is this

correct? Maybe the instruction was of poor quality.

>

> Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

>

Chinese Medicine

> heylaurag

> Tue, 5 Jan 2010 22:44:54 +0000

> Re: What's in a Name? The Future of the Medicine.

>

> Yes, I agree with Hugo--this medicine with its thousands of years of

accumulated knowledge is more than enough for one person to learn. We can treat

soooo many more issues successfully the more Chinese medicine knowledge we know

and to dilute our focus by forcing us to learn a lot about western medicine

makes no sense. We are NOT better practitioners for knowing western medicine. It

really isn't necessary to know anything about western medicine to be an

exceptional practitioner. But it IS necessary to know as much Chinese medicine

as possible to be an exceptional Chinese medicine practitioner.

>

> Laura

>

> Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor@>

wrote:

> >

> > Hi Mike:

> >

> > I honestly feel nervous when I hear the following, although I am not sure i

am reading you right:

> >

> > --Mike-

> > We need to have a stronger understanding of both, east and western

> > medical understanding like our Asian-trained counterparts. Larger

> > knowledge base is important for treatment options.

> > ---

> >

> > Which asian-trained counterparts? My lineage teacher who received no western

medical training? Why do we need the larger knowledge base for expanding our

treatment options? How many of us can claim to be using CM to its full, or close

to full, effectiveness? If the answer is " no, I'm not " , the solution is not

" tack some western medicine on " .

> >

> > I also ask you, Mike, to not forget that some of our asian-trained

counterparts have some very harsh things to say about CM in the present:

> >

> > " In

> > recent years, the unique characteristics of

> > Chinese medicine, its advantages over Western medicine, and its

> > standards of academic excellence have not been developed according to

> > the wishes of the people, but have rather been tossed into a state of

> > severe crisis and chaotic actions.

> > Underneath

> > the bright and cheap glitter at the surface, the essence and the

> > characteristics of Chinese medicine are being metamorphosed and

> > annihilated at a most perturbing rate. The primary expression of this

> > crisis is the Westernisation of all guiding principles and

> > methodologies of Chinese medicine.â€

> >

> > LÃ¼

> > Bingkui, former director of the PRC's Ministry of TCM

> > Administration, July 1991

> > The history of Ayurveda in India is almost identical. Both China and India

ran an all-out government experiment to modernise, scientise and integrate their

medical systems. And both have had almost identical results: poor quality

training, students who don't really understand the medicine, yet have quite a

bit of western medical training, but, grotesquely, not enough to be western

medical doctors. The final results leading to " doctors " who don't know how to

treat using the indigenous medical system and maybe don't even want to treat

with it, and a growing understanding that soemwhere along the line a grievous

error was committed.

> > We can learn a lot from the mistakes committed in Asia.

> >

> > Hugo

> >

> > ________________________________

> > Hugo Ramiro

> > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> > http://www.middlemedicine.org

> >

> > ________________________________

> > mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@>

> > Chinese Traditional Medicine

> > Tue, 5 January, 2010 10:53:02

> > RE: What's in a Name? The Future of the Medicine.

> >

> > I am hearing a tone of exclusion in this thread and I happen to think that

neither position is correct. We need to have a stronger understanding of both,

east and western medical understanding like our Asian-trained counterparts.

Larger knowledge base is important for treatment options.

> >

> > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> > zaranski@

> > Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:27:42 +0000

> > Re: What's in a Name? The Future of the Medicine.

> >

> > New Clients often arrive with western diagnoses, but they always still have

their problem. The reason they come is because, despite having a wonderful and

important sounding diagnosis, THEY STILL HAVE THEIR PROBLEM. Receiving a WM

diagnosis does not make their problem go away, and evidently neither did the

various WM treatments for said diagnosed malady.

> >

> > They ask " Do you have a record of success treating ____________? "

> >

> > Then the education process begins. Our Clients hear the language of CM in

their diagnosis, hear their herb formulas called by their chinese names, and

begin to use the language themselves on a beginner level. They tell their

friends " I used up too much Yin so I need to make more, " or " they said my Qi was

stuck. "

> >

> > Often they seem relieved to find we have a different take on their problem,

and thrilled to find that we can very effectively treat that which could not be

treated effectively by their WM practitioner.

> >

> > If we focus on symptoms and wm diagnoses we can be really little more help

than their WM Docs. Maybe we can substitue acu/moxa/herbs for their pain

medication. whoopee!

> >

> > If we do our JOBS correctly, we can correct root imbalances and peoples

lives change! Do this well and repeatedly and YOUR life will change.

> >

> > Mark Z

> >

> > Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Z'ev, yes it seems I very much spoke out of turn, although I don't

agree with Will Morris exactly. I fully retract my initial judgement of calling

him a goof. Totally inappropriate. Here's the relevant piece of the article

which I just read:

> > >

> > > --William Morris / Acupuncture Today-

> > > Participating acupuncturists must adapt appropriate physical

> > > assessment, outcomes measures and report-writing to the culture of

> > > occupational medicine. Liver qi stagnation and the five

> > > elements, while important as an in-discipline model of thought, will

> > > not work in that environment. We must give up the idea that others will

> > > accept our nomenclature. It is ours and we need it, but they don't. We

> > > must therefore communicate in a way that our listeners can hear.

> > > ---

> > >

> > > To communicate in a way that my listeners can hear is very important, but

to eliminate myself from the picture is impossible. In other words, if what I am

*truly* doing is treating Liver Qi stagnation, then, somehow, that fact will

express itself, and likely, it will permeate who I am and what I do, even when I

am co-opting western medical terminology and differentials for my purposes.

> > >

> > > To pretend that corporations (for example) will not " cave " to our concepts

is to ignore that they have caved in every instance where the circumstances or

the consumers have demanded that they do so. If it is our concepts which allow

us to provide a sustainable medicine, then it is unavoidable that people of all

walks of life accept our terms. Our terms, after all, are based on repeated,

tested, observations.

> > >

> > > We must also remember that the people who approach us, be they patients,

representatives of biomedicine and so on, approach us in part *because* of our

terminology. People are tired of the machine metaphor. The machine metaphor will

kill us - it is *that* which must be given up.

> > >

> > > On a practical note, it is perfectly possible in my point of view to

retain both terminologies and differentials, one for communication, and the

other for the real work. Just so long as that is the hierarchy that is present.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Hugo

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > Hugo Ramiro

> > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> > > http://www.middlemedicine.org

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > <zrosenbe@>

> > > Chinese Medicine

> > > Mon, 4 January, 2010 17:43:50

> > > Re: What's in a Name? The Future of the Medicine.

> > >

> > > Hugo,

> > > I haven't read the article yet, but I'd be pretty surprised if Will was

recommending giving up the language of Chinese medicine, knowing how dedicated

he is to the classical medicine, especially pulse diagnosis.

> > >

> > > Having said that, I think you've hit the issue right on the head. If we

innately feel that biomedicine is the only 'true' reality in medicine, and that

what Chinese medicine describes is a fiction, then the profession will fade away

eventually and only the needles will survive, not the theory, the herbs, or the

moxa.

> > >

> > > On Jan 4, 2010, at 1:01 PM, Hugo Ramiro wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hi Andrea Beth and all:

> > > >

> > > > --Andrea Beth-

> > > >

> > > > We are not of unified opinion on:

> > > > " medical " acupuncturists

> > > > the FPD

> > > > what to call ourselves

> > > > whether we should all be trained in herbal medicine in addition to

> > > > acupuncture (be TCM practitioners) or continue to have 2 separate

> > > > categories of acupuncturists - those who incorporate herbal medicine

> > > > and those who don't... I see this as a very big source of confusion for

> > > > our public identity...

> > > > and other issues that affect our profession and threaten our livelihood

> > > > ---

> > > >

> > > > From my p.o.v. all of the above boil down to one thing, and one thing

only, and it is the thing we must answer *first*:

> > > >

> > > > Do we, as individuals, buy into CM, or do we buy into WM?

> > > >

> > > > Do we actually believe there is a real thing " parkinson's " ? Do we feel

confused when we think " damp " ?

> > > > Do we actually buy that " erythema multiformis " is a specialist term

originating from a super-advanced technological medicine...or do we *clearly*

understand that erythema multiformis is a " common language " description from a

language so archaic it's DEAD and meaning no more than (literally) " red skin

many shapes " .

> > > >

> > > > And yet we have the goof in Austin saying that we have to give up our

" archaic " language because...there's another *more* archaic language that we'd

rather use?!

> > > >

> > > > Let's look at a few WM diagnoses:

> > > >

> > > > Schizophrenia - Split Diaphragm / Split Mind (same Phren from phrenology

by the way)

> > > > Diabetes - " To pass through " . Diarrhea? No, Dia/betes/. Just trying to

be specific.

> > > > Angina Pectoris - Strangulation in the chest

> > > > Idiopathic Neuralgia - Something hurts and we don't know how or why

(literally). But we have a name. Ok, ok, let's give that one another shot:

> > > > Idiopathic Neuralgia - Comes-from-private-suffering Vigor-Sinew pain.

> > > > Lupus Erythematosus - Wolf Red Sea-Mullet on the skin (that is *spooky*,

people, *spooky*)

> > > >

> > > > I hope I amuse you guys.

> > > >

> > > > So just to tie this one up: what we might want to look at as a

profession is a course called " yin yang theory " , and if you don't get it, you

don't get it (the degree / certification). I really feel that if we did that, a

lot of our problems would vanish. How to defeat your enemy? Divide their

attention, cause them to doubt themselves. Our attention is being divided very

effectively, from my p.o.v.

> > > >

> > > > Happy 2010 everyone!

> > > > Hugo

> > > >

> > > > ________________________________

> > > > Hugo Ramiro

> > > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> > > > http://www.middlemedicine.org

> > > >

> > > > ________________________________

> > > > <@>

> > > > Chinese Medicine

> > > > Mon, 4 January, 2010 11:05:34

> > > > Re: What's in a Name? The Future of the Medicine.

> > > >

> > > > First the western medical professions take over our medicine, then the

military, and now here comes the FPD. I think the future looks bleak for

acupuncturists (oops, TCM practitioners - but, by the way, no one where I live

has any idea what TCM is, aside from other LAc's), with or without the FPD.

> > > >

> > > > Plus, we are lacking a national standard for practice in all 50 of the

United States; indeed, there are some states which still lack an acupuncture

statute, and others require education only in acupuncture (and not also herbal

medicine) for licensure. Still other states authorize only " doctors " to practice

acupuncture. Those that do license acupuncturists, all have differing

educational and exam requirements. How can we be unified on anything, if we are

not trained equally?

> > > >

> > > > Even if we were unified in our opinion and strategies for addressing

these issues, we don't have the numbers of practitioners and deep pockets needed

to defend our profession properly. Poor business sense compounds these problems.

> > > >

> > > > If any of our brothers and sisters in other countries have addressed

these issues in ways that have been fruitful, I for one, would like to hear from

them. What has been useful, and how is it working?

> > > >

> > > > Thank you,

> > > > Andrea Beth

> > > >

> > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine

> > > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center

> > > > 635 S. 10th St.

> > > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326

> > > > (928) 274-1373

> > > >

> > > > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, zedbowls <zaranski (AT) verizon (DOT) net> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > zedbowls <zaranski (AT) verizon (DOT) net>

> > > > Re: What's in a Name? The Future of the Medicine.

> > > >

> > > > Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:01 AM

> > > >

> > > > <heylaurag@ ..> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > We have a strong underground following that already knows us as

" Traditional " shortened to TCM or Chinese medicine. It makes no

business sense whatsoever to give that up. I have to say, our profession

generally lacks business sense, sadly.

> > > > >

> > > > > Laura

> > > > Acupuncture Today (jan 2010, vol 11 no 1) leads of with Will Morris' The

Bright Future Of Acupuncture wherein he tells us that Acupuncture gained

recognition in 2009 and has a brand name that shines brightly in the media (at

least in 2009)due mainly to a MLB pitcher and a tv danc-show contestent.

> > > >

> > > > The article goes on to explain that Acupuncture will grow thru low price

models appealing to corporations and government, that community-style

acupuncture will grow and be supported by governments, that our traditional

nomenclature (Liver Qi stagnation with Spleen Qi deficiency) is archaic and must

be replaced with the language of occupational medicine, that we must develop

specialties and quickly evolve to the FPD.

> > > >

> > > > Mr. Morris is the president of Autin, Tx's Academy of Oriental Medicine,

influential to other academics and to many future students. However, He is not a

private clinician, and I do not feel he at all represents those who are, and his

future is certainly not what I am interested in. His retoric is prime example of

what Laura points out: LACK OF BUSINESS SENSE.

> > > >

> > > > The last thing I want is to look to the government for money to treat

people. Can anyone point me to a successful (U.S.) program where a)patients are

thrilled with the results of the care they receive and b) practitioners are

happy with the working environment (paperwork, etc.) and the compensation they

receive (think Veterens Administration) ???????

> > > >

> > > > Blend-in, be the low-price leader by any means, give the schools more

money...these are the steps to success???

> > > >

> > > > I strongly doubt others on this list who are making excellent livings

practicing whatever form (by whatever name) of oriental medicine will agree that

Will's vision is their own.

> > > >

> > > > I think the government should go back to having public hospitals (you

remember the County Hospital, don't you?) available for those who have no other

health care to turn to. As in the past, those who could make other arrangements

(private physician, private insurance, whatever) typically avoided the County

Hospital and chose their own provider.

> > > >

> > > > We need less government, not more. We need people to take responsibility

for themselves, their families, and their choices.

> > > >

> > > > Less than 3% of our Clinic's income came from insurance reimbursement of

any kind in 2009, and thats the way I like it. Clients pay cash, check,

visa/mastercard/ discover for what they want: safe, effective, gentle treatments

with documented progress and true recovery without dangerous drugs (with myriad

" side " effects) and without unneccessary surgeries.

> > > >

> > > > Mark Z

> > > >

> > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > > >

> > > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times

http://www.chinesem edicinetimes. com

> > > >

> > > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine

and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesem edicinetimes. com/wiki/ CMTpedia

> > > >

> > > > http://groups. /

group/Traditiona l_Chinese_ Medicine/ join and adjust accordingly.

> > > >

> > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the

group requires prior permission from the author.

> > > >

> > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if

absolutely necessary.

January 6, 2010

Yes, part of why I am support of the doctorate is that I do not want to see

acupuncturists having to work under a western MD. If we are doctors, that

becomes less likely to find ourselves there. I don't plan to ever work outside

of my own clinic, so it will not ever effect me either way. But I think we need

to preserve the integrity of our medicine as a legitamate system by itself--just

as western medicine is by itself. Yes, access to both is better than access to

only one. But each alone is a full system, and we need to be recognized as such.

Chinese Medicine , " heylaurag " <heylaurag

wrote:

>

> Hi Mike, I am in support of the doctoral program, by the way. And I do think

that some education in western medicine is important--especially in order to

enable us to know when to refer in emergency situations. This was a solid

aspect of my program, so I've just assumed it was for everyone. Isn't that a

standard of our profession?

>

> But I do think our education could easily be watered down by too much western

medicine in our program. and I do think that there is a basic premise that

needs to be remembered while designing these programs--that we do not need to

know anythng about western medicine to be excellent practioners of chinese

medicine. I believe that is true. But I do think that we should know enough to

know when to refer, which is already part of our education.

>

> BTW--I enjoyed my western science classes.

>

> Laura

>

> Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser

<naturaldoc1@> wrote:

> >

> > Laura,

> >

> > I can easily see how this stance can lead us toward an error in thinking

that we can treat this or that better then anyone else. My first question on

this, is how do you know? We have little data on our successes and what little

we have is inadequate. If you are wanting to participate in treating more

serious or complex conditions, then we must know the language of science and

also physiology. Notice that I mention science and not medicince. Western

medicine has taken a dim view on some areas of science that clearly they are

incorrect on, so everything is not so clear.

> >

> > I have stated that we should learn as much CM as possible but few understand