Fw: food prices

April 6, 2008

At 06:13 PM 4/5/2008, thehavens wrote:

If they think we're so horrible, yes.....But, I don't think they do. They

may be upset at some things - things don't always go the way we'd like

them to. Especially when one is dealing with world politics, and with a

number of very complex issues. And, with the way the $ is fluctuating,

it makes perfect financial sense to me to have it in euros. Was that your

point? That I would think they're bashing us because that's what they

want? The value of various currency fluctuates from day to day. Looks

like a pragmatic approach to me.

Lynn

you mean like stop giving israel

15 million us a day......and now they are

demanding it in euro's........kraig

Kraig Carroll

Environmental Damage Repair

_

April 6, 2008

Well, I just saw on CNN or BBC that some from Brazil are leaving the US and going home because of the job situation in the US if that helps.Den 06/04/2008 kl. 00.56 skrev Lynn Ward:At 05:01 PM 4/5/2008, you wrote:whatever............still say, if we're so damn corrupt, and so damn bad, people should keep their hands in their pockets and not ask for help or asylum .....tell you what - why don't we start sending folks to Denmark and see how y'all do...............I'm fed up with the US bashing..........nothing the US, or people in the US ever satisfies, so I'm all for quitting. Pull everyone out of everywhere and let people fight it out amongst themselves. Stop sending aid. Let's really take care of our own for a change...........I could care less at this point. But, when things don't work out, don't come crying to us.......there must be some reason why there are so many immigrants in the US. So many illegals. Sure, it's not perfect,. but what government is? But, it seems to look pretty good to an awful lot of people - I don't see people streaming to Venezuela, or Cuba, or Saudia Arabia, or...........how many countries do you want me to name?Sometimes, Kenn, you need to just leave it alone.......No government helps because they want to help those they suppose to help, they ""help"" because it gives them power over those they are ""helping""

April 6, 2008

At 06:22 PM 4/5/2008, you wrote:

I'll have to agree with you there....DH thinks we ought to send it in

Pesos! Mescian Pesos............LOL

It amuse me that they got the

nerve to demand their welfare in euro.

Den 06/04/2008 kl. 00.13 skrev

thehavens:

you mean like stop giving israel 15 million us a day......and now they

are

demanding it in euro's........kraig

Kraig Carroll

Environmental Damage Repair

April 6, 2008

At 07:20 PM 4/5/2008, you wrote:

Well, I wish them luck........It never make me happy when people can't

find a job, or their dream is smashed...........

Lynn

Well, I just saw on CNN or

BBC that some from Brazil are leaving the US and going home because of

the job situation in the US if that helps.

April 6, 2008

You seem to be in graver danger there than we are here at the moment - there have to be a few advantages to being 50 years behind the times!!

Jane

-

Lynn Ward

Sunday, April 06, 2008 9:00 AM

Re: Fw: food prices

At 05:23 PM 4/5/2008, you wrote:Yeah, as far as poisoning the earth and so on, it is. But, there is a constant stream of stuff about how bad and in what terrible shape the US is in. Perhaps you haven't noticed it. Perhaps because you don't live here. don't know.Lynn

you said:I tire of the constant, "it's the U.S.s" fault......so bad, so corrupt, blah, blah, blah..... Errrrrr I believe tiz the FIRST WORLD 'per se' .... not simply the USA...... we have taken and taken and taken some more.... ever selfishly..... it is coming back at us now...... Clare

April 6, 2008

Lynn,

I think I can understand you being fed up with the US bashing.

Hopefully you are not pointing to just citizens from other nations who

might be pointing the finger at the US Government for the chaos that's

developing with the speed of light years.

The below copy/paste is a piece written by one of your fellow citizens

and I believe he is putting the finger on the pulse of some basic

underlying causes that change might be a while away:

I love to come into these groups because they prove to me that

what I

have been thinking about us Americans ever since John F. Kennedy was

killed is very true. We are a nation of people that care nothing

about

ourselves, our children, or each other. We would rather be lead by

the

rich than by someone who might do what is right and good for us and

this

nation. We love liars and we hate anyone who dares to speak the

truth.

We do not want to do anything that might call for us to sacrifice. We

as

Americans deserve all that we are going to get. We Americans do not

want

to believe the truth until we are hit right in the face with it and

even

then we will deny it. Ask any American, Have we lost our right to not

be

arrested without just cause? and the vast majority answers no, when

in

truth the answer is YES. Have we lost our right to privacy? Again

the

majority answers no, when again the answer is YES. Now coming soon

this

question can be asked, Have we lost the right to keep and bear arms?

The majority will without a doubt answer no, but once more then

answer

will be YES.

Americans won't do anything because we just do not care and we just

want

to be left alone so we can continue to live in our own little dream

world were nothing that is really going on in the world can hurt us,

or

so we think. I am just waiting until it all comes down hard and fast

then I will just sit and laugh as we Americans sit with a dumb look

on

our faces wondering, WHAT IN THE HELL HAPPENED?

I am old and with the state of my health I won't be around much

longer,

but I do hope I will be around just long enough to see it all happen

so

that maybe I can die laughing.

At 07:26 AM 6/04/2008, you

wrote:At 05:01 PM 4/5/2008, you

wrote:

whatever............still say, if we're so damn corrupt, and so damn bad,

people should keep their hands in their pockets and not ask for help or

asylum .....tell you what - why don't we start sending folks to Denmark

and see how y'all do...............

I'm fed up with the US bashing..........nothing the US, or people in the

US ever satisfies, so I'm all for quitting. Pull everyone out of

everywhere and let people fight it out amongst themselves. Stop sending

aid. Let's really take care of our own for a change...........I could

care less at this point. But, when things don't work out, don't come

crying to us.......there must be some reason why there are so many

immigrants in the US. So many illegals. Sure, it's not perfect,. but what

government is? But, it seems to look pretty good to an awful lot of

people - I don't see people streaming to Venezuela, or Cuba, or Saudia

Arabia, or...........how many countries do you want me to name?

Sometimes, Kenn, you need to just leave it alone.......

No government helps because they

want to help those they suppose to help, they

" " help " " because it gives them power over those they

are " " helping " "

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5/04/2008 7:53 AM

April 6, 2008

I would like see their faces if they got them in Zimbabwe dollars.Den 06/04/2008 kl. 03.26 skrev Lynn Ward:At 06:22 PM 4/5/2008, you wrote:I'll have to agree with you there....DH thinks we ought to send it in Pesos! Mescian Pesos............LOLIt amuse me that they got the nerve to demand their welfare in euro.Den 06/04/2008 kl. 00.13 skrev thehavens (AT) highland (DOT) net:you mean like stop giving israel 15 million us a day......and now they are demanding it in euro's........kraigKraig CarrollEnvironmental Damage Repair

April 6, 2008

At 01:27 AM 4/6/2008, you wrote:

LOL..........there's a sort of twisted logic there - maybe not so

twisted. *grin* I figure, on certain levels, and for certain

things, it's probably true. While I don't know for sure, I suspect there

are a number of places in the U.S. that haven't been affected by all the

poisons, chemtrails and so on - It's a big country, with a lot of

variety in the terrain and climate.......And, there are huge chunks of

land where no one lives, or only a couple of people live, and nothing is

being grown.....

Lynn

You seem to be in graver danger there than

we are here at the moment - there have to be a few advantages to being 50

years behind the times!!

Jane

April 6, 2008

what no one seems to want to point out is, there are two united

states, the corporate government of the district of columbia, which is

foreign to the republic of these united states.....with each state being

it's own republic, that is until fdr finally did what the illuminati have

been trying to steal since before we became these united states........in

1933 when all the governors of every state , accepted this new

deal, government took the place of GOD.....thru social security and all

the " benefit /privileges that government is now taking care of..[fda

anyone] ....anyone else think its insane to have the d.c. government in

charge of education? the schools now excel at being average......and

good at adhering to lame brained government rules and regulations, [so they

can get more money from government for being good little nazi's!] not laws

mind you approved by we the people, but by bought and paid for lawyers for

the most part, who we keep sending back in the same old shell game, and

expect the snow job of " vote them out " to change anything!!!!!! if you

do not understand the power of the council on foreign relations and the

tri-lateral commission, and who created them and who makes the

appointments, nothing will make sense to you.......read g. edward griffins

book, " the creature of jeykel island " and you will see the tentacles of

the illuminati ....and all the players in the mess we have straddled our

selves with! kraig

Kraig Carroll

Environmental Damage Repair

---

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April 6, 2008

Right on, Kraig!

I have been reading what goes thru this group for awhile now on digest

and finally switched to get each email separate so I could reply

easier, and decided to finally post last nite.

Oddly, they never came thru the list. What is the email for this group?

@?

Is this list a moderated group? Do messages have to be approved?

Thanks,

Toni

"What we are today comes from our thoughts of yesterday,

and our present thoughts build our life of tomorrow:

Our life is the creation of our mind." ~Buddha~

thehavens wrote:

what no one seems to want to point out is, there are two united states, the corporate government of the district of columbia, which is foreign to the republic of these united states.....with each state being it's own republic, that is until fdr finally did what the illuminati have been trying to steal since before we became these united states........in 1933 when all the governors of every state , accepted this new deal, government took the place of GOD.....thru social security and all the "benefit /privileges that government is now taking care of..[fda anyone] ....anyone else think its insane to have the d.c. government in charge of education? the schools now excel at being average......and good at adhering to lame brained government rules and regulations, [so they can get more money from government for being good little nazi's!] not laws mind you approved by we the people, but by bought and paid for lawyers for the most part, who we keep sending back in the same old shell game, and expect the snow job of "vote them out" to change anything!!!!!! if you do not understand the power of the council on foreign relations and the tri-lateral commission, and who created them and who makes the appointments, nothing will make sense to you.......read g. edward griffins book, " the creature of jeykel island" and you will see the tentacles of the illuminati ....and all the players in the mess we have straddled our selves with! kraig

Kraig Carroll

Environmental Damage Repair

---

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April 6, 2008

At 04:08 AM 4/6/2008, you wrote:

Hanneke,

Certainly there are a lot of Americans who aren't happy with the way

things are.....and, I can understand everything the fellow said who wrote

the letter, although I don't agree with all of it. I'm not going to go

through it point by point, because there isn't any point in doing that.

(sorry about the redundancy)

..If I haven't learned anything else from this group, I've learned

that people are going to believe what they want, regardless of the facts,

or the logic of it...........If someone says something that fits what

people think, then it must be true. I've tried to point out, on more than

one occasion that someone's " facts " or statements are faulty -

but it doesn't really matter. I get it now. May take me a while, but I

eventually figure things out. For some reason, I thought, even if what I

had to say went against popular opinion, that if I could show what

someone was putting forth as " truth " was faulty, people would

at least see that. Not to change people's minds, but to show that just

because some things bolster a POV, they aren't factual, and can

therefore, not be trusted.

I think Americans do care - or, at least most of them. I just think,

frankly, that people are lazy and don't get involved with something

unless they feel it's going to impact them. And, even then...........And,

I think a lot of people are uninformed. They believe whatever they see on

TV, read in the paper, or what someone, either a friend or someone at

work, tells them. Normally, I would say people are stupid, but I won't in

this case. I say people are stupid, when I often mean

uninformed.........let's face it, it takes an effort to really be

informed, regardless of the subject. And, while it frankly surprises me,

people still believe what the mainstream media chooses to tell them.

Every now and then, something will happen which shows them they can't

believe them, but, like a child, the lesson learned doesn't stick. Before

you know it, they are back to listening to the news, and believing every

word that drips from their mouth. But, this doesn't make Americans any

different than people in other countries.

While it doesn't bother me if people say things about America - for a

while. A steady diet of it, whether from another country or from

Americans gets on my nerves. Let me give an analogy here - it's one thing

to complain about your own family, to say what an idiot your brother is,

what a ho your mother is, what a drunk your father is. But, it's quit

different when someone else says it.....For one thing, they don't have

the same emotional attachment you do. Nor, do they live with

them.....It's always easier to judge from a distance....

It's not just America that has problems - a lot of countries do. But,

what affects America, clearly affects other nations..........so, from

that standpoint, I can understand why some things are said. But, as far

as I'm concerned, a number of people in other countries have no business

talking about how corrupt America is - they should take a look in their

own back yard. Fix the problems they've got before they go pointing the

finger and say, " shame on you. " Fix the problems in their own

government. Their own health care system, and on and on....Frankly, I

can't think of a nation in the world who doesn't have issues that need to

be dealt with and/or fixed. If anyone knows one, I'd be interested to

know who it is, and why they think that. I doubt anyone will be able o

come up with a single place.

As I've said may times, I don't like politics. Never have. I don't like

most politicians. Most of them are slick, and you can believe them as

much as you can a man who is buying a woman drinks and tells her he just

wants to be her friend. I've told the group before what my father told me

- you can't believe anything you read, and only half of what you see.

Most politicians employ a sort of verbal sleight of hand. Possibly, some

actually mean what they say. But, once mired in the reality of what it

takes to get things done, things change.

I probably know more than most how things work - from several

standpoints. And, in both business and the government. the faces change,

but the game continues. It doesn't matter. Democrat, Republican, liberal

or conservative - the game is the same. And, the rules don't change much.

The author of the letter mentioned Kennedy - he really wasn't any

different. The difference is, he didn't live long enough for people to

actually see it. There are plenty of skeletons in that closet as

well.

And, I'll end after this, but the author says Americans don't want to

sacrifice....Clearly he hasn't kept up with the news - thousands upon

thousands have sacrificed their lives because they felt it was the right

thing to do. I doubt he was ever in the service - or even belonged to a

church. Otherwise, he wouldn't say that. I can look around me, and just

in a couple of blocks, I can give story upon story where people and

families have sacrificed to help others. So, I don't know where he lives

or what he does, but he clearly does not have pulse on America.

I know people who have and still do sacrifice every waking moment in

service to others...I myself, adopted 7 special needs kids - some with

horrible problems - but all with problems. I can give you stories of

people have sacrificed their lives for what they believe - and they'

weren't in the military. Between my father, my brothers and all three of

my husbands, there is over a hundred years of military service. Don't

tell me Americans don't sacrifice............But, you see, stories like

these aren't popular - they don't fit anyone's bias

Lynn

Lynn,

I think I can understand you being fed up with the US bashing.

Hopefully you are not pointing to just citizens from other nations who

might be pointing the finger at the US Government for the chaos that's

developing with the speed of light years.

The below copy/paste is a piece written by one of your fellow citizens

and I believe he is putting the finger on the pulse of some basic

underlying causes that change might be a while away:

I love to come into these groups because they prove to me that

what I

have been thinking about us Americans ever since John F. Kennedy was

killed is very true. We are a nation of people that care nothing

about

ourselves, our children, or each other. We would rather be lead by

the

rich than by someone who might do what is right and good for us and

this

nation. We love liars and we hate anyone who dares to speak the

truth.

We do not want to do anything that might call for us to sacrifice.

We

as

Americans deserve all that we are going to get. We Americans do not

want

to believe the truth until we are hit right in the face with it and

even

then we will deny it. Ask any American, Have we lost our right to

not

be

arrested without just cause? and the vast majority answers no, when

in

truth the answer is YES. Have we lost our right to privacy? Again

the

majority answers no, when again the answer is YES. Now coming soon

this

question can be asked, Have we lost the right to keep and bear arms?

The majority will without a doubt answer no, but once more then

answer

will be YES.

Americans won't do anything because we just do not care and we just

want

to be left alone so we can continue to live in our own little dream

world were nothing that is really going on in the world can hurt us,

or

so we think. I am just waiting until it all comes down hard and fast

then I will just sit and laugh as we Americans sit with a dumb look

on

our faces wondering, WHAT IN THE HELL HAPPENED?

I am old and with the state of my health I won't be around much

longer,

but I do hope I will be around just long enough to see it all happen

so

that maybe I can die laughing.

April 6, 2008

At 08:04 AM 4/6/2008, you wrote:

hahahaha............

I would like see their faces if

they got them in Zimbabwe dollars.

Den 06/04/2008 kl. 03.26 skrev Lynn Ward:

At 06:22 PM 4/5/2008, you wrote:

I'll have to agree with you there....DH thinks we ought to send it in

Pesos! Mescian Pesos............LOL

April 6, 2008

When some one is pointing their finger at somene else bad behavior, they are pointing away the attension of their own behavior. The same goes for government, when the government hammering away on some foreign stuff.....they get the attension away from the domestic stuff. And that is needed by the US government, if the US people started to think about the US future and thereby their own, they would rally the streets. For many years the US have printed dollars, and got goods in in return. But it seems that now there is a risk that the world is losing the faith in the dollar, if that should happen, it would be the end of America as we know it. Den 06/04/2008 kl. 23.13 skrev Lynn Ward:At 04:08 AM 4/6/2008, you wrote:Hanneke,Certainly there are a lot of Americans who aren't happy with the way things are.....and, I can understand everything the fellow said who wrote the letter, although I don't agree with all of it. I'm not going to go through it point by point, because there isn't any point in doing that. (sorry about the redundancy) ..If I haven't learned anything else from this group, I've learned that people are going to believe what they want, regardless of the facts, or the logic of it...........If someone says something that fits what people think, then it must be true. I've tried to point out, on more than one occasion that someone's "facts" or statements are faulty - but it doesn't really matter. I get it now. May take me a while, but I eventually figure things out. For some reason, I thought, even if what I had to say went against popular opinion, that if I could show what someone was putting forth as "truth" was faulty, people would at least see that. Not to change people's minds, but to show that just because some things bolster a POV, they aren't factual, and can therefore, not be trusted.I think Americans do care - or, at least most of them. I just think, frankly, that people are lazy and don't get involved with something unless they feel it's going to impact them. And, even then...........And, I think a lot of people are uninformed. They believe whatever they see on TV, read in the paper, or what someone, either a friend or someone at work, tells them. Normally, I would say people are stupid, but I won't in this case. I say people are stupid, when I often mean uninformed.........let's face it, it takes an effort to really be informed, regardless of the subject. And, while it frankly surprises me, people still believe what the mainstream media chooses to tell them. Every now and then, something will happen which shows them they can't believe them, but, like a child, the lesson learned doesn't stick. Before you know it, they are back to listening to the news, and believing every word that drips from their mouth. But, this doesn't make Americans any different than people in other countries.While it doesn't bother me if people say things about America - for a while. A steady diet of it, whether from another country or from Americans gets on my nerves. Let me give an analogy here - it's one thing to complain about your own family, to say what an idiot your brother is, what a ho your mother is, what a drunk your father is. But, it's quit different when someone else says it.....For one thing, they don't have the same emotional attachment you do. Nor, do they live with them.....It's always easier to judge from a distance....It's not just America that has problems - a lot of countries do. But, what affects America, clearly affects other nations..........so, from that standpoint, I can understand why some things are said. But, as far as I'm concerned, a number of people in other countries have no business talking about how corrupt America is - they should take a look in their own back yard. Fix the problems they've got before they go pointing the finger and say, "shame on you." Fix the problems in their own government. Their own health care system, and on and on....Frankly, I can't think of a nation in the world who doesn't have issues that need to be dealt with and/or fixed. If anyone knows one, I'd be interested to know who it is, and why they think that. I doubt anyone will be able o come up with a single place.As I've said may times, I don't like politics. Never have. I don't like most politicians. Most of them are slick, and you can believe them as much as you can a man who is buying a woman drinks and tells her he just wants to be her friend. I've told the group before what my father told me - you can't believe anything you read, and only half of what you see. Most politicians employ a sort of verbal sleight of hand. Possibly, some actually mean what they say. But, once mired in the reality of what it takes to get things done, things change. I probably know more than most how things work - from several standpoints. And, in both business and the government. the faces change, but the game continues. It doesn't matter. Democrat, Republican, liberal or conservative - the game is the same. And, the rules don't change much. The author of the letter mentioned Kennedy - he really wasn't any different. The difference is, he didn't live long enough for people to actually see it. There are plenty of skeletons in that closet as well.And, I'll end after this, but the author says Americans don't want to sacrifice....Clearly he hasn't kept up with the news - thousands upon thousands have sacrificed their lives because they felt it was the right thing to do. I doubt he was ever in the service - or even belonged to a church. Otherwise, he wouldn't say that. I can look around me, and just in a couple of blocks, I can give story upon story where people and families have sacrificed to help others. So, I don't know where he lives or what he does, but he clearly does not have pulse on America. I know people who have and still do sacrifice every waking moment in service to others...I myself, adopted 7 special needs kids - some with horrible problems - but all with problems. I can give you stories of people have sacrificed their lives for what they believe - and they' weren't in the military. Between my father, my brothers and all three of my husbands, there is over a hundred years of military service. Don't tell me Americans don't sacrifice............But, you see, stories like these aren't popular - they don't fit anyone's biasLynnLynn,I think I can understand you being fed up with the US bashing. Hopefully you are not pointing to just citizens from other nations who might be pointing the finger at the US Government for the chaos that's developing with the speed of light years.The below copy/paste is a piece written by one of your fellow citizens and I believe he is putting the finger on the pulse of some basic underlying causes that change might be a while away:I love to come into these groups because they prove to me that

what I

have been thinking about us Americans ever since John F. Kennedy was

killed is very true. We are a nation of people that care nothing

about

ourselves, our children, or each other. We would rather be lead by

the

rich than by someone who might do what is right and good for us and

this

nation. We love liars and we hate anyone who dares to speak the

truth.

We do not want to do anything that might call for us to sacrifice.

We

as

Americans deserve all that we are going to get. We Americans do not

want

to believe the truth until we are hit right in the face with it and

even

then we will deny it. Ask any American, Have we lost our right to

not

be

arrested without just cause? and the vast majority answers no, when

in

truth the answer is YES. Have we lost our right to privacy? Again

the

majority answers no, when again the answer is YES. Now coming soon

this

question can be asked, Have we lost the right to keep and bear arms?

The majority will without a doubt answer no, but once more then

answer

will be YES.

Americans won't do anything because we just do not care and we just

want

to be left alone so we can continue to live in our own little dream

world were nothing that is really going on in the world can hurt us,

or

so we think. I am just waiting until it all comes down hard and fast

then I will just sit and laugh as we Americans sit with a dumb look

on

our faces wondering, WHAT IN THE HELL HAPPENED?

I am old and with the state of my health I won't be around much

longer,

but I do hope I will be around just long enough to see it all happen

so

that maybe I can die laughing.

April 7, 2008

At 06:14 PM 4/6/2008, you wrote:

Perhaps........guess we'll just to wait and see........

When some one is pointing their

finger at somene else bad behavior, they are pointing away the attension

of their own behavior. The same goes for government, when the government

hammering away on some foreign stuff.....they get the attension away from

the domestic stuff. And that is needed by the US government, if the US

people started to think about the US future and thereby their own, they

would rally the streets. For many years the US have printed dollars, and

got goods in in return. But it seems that now there is a risk that the

world is losing the faith in the dollar, if that should happen, it would

be the end of America as we know it.

April 7, 2008

I agree with many things you are saying in your email...regarding people

being ignorant due to not having the information, being enslaved to main

stream media, feeding on it and believing everything. This is valid

for many countries right across the world.

Also can understand that you somehow feel it as a personal attack if

people from other countries dare say something negative about

America.

Perhaps you have missed it in my posts but several times I have referred

to the USA Government, and Bush, that many of the bad things

sweeping across the globe are a direct or indirect result of the Bush

politics. (as a side note: Bush in my understanding is only a

puppet for the shadow government..too long a topic - and off topic at

that, to go into it here). Yes, those politics are affecting many people

right across the globe.

We do not have a direct voice in voting or impeaching those responsible.

It doesn't stop us from having an opinion based on what we are

experiencing. We have been able to have a little say when we had

our elections (our own backyard!) but it doesn't mean that the effects of

the Bushenomics aren't still present. More has to be done and

it's being worked on but here it is the same as in your country: only so

many will follow through to achieve change. What is happening is

not only affecting USA but the rest of the world... and we would not be

allowed to say anything???? It is the USA government who has made

it its business to interfere in other countries.

Lynn... understand, the attacks are not at individuals of the

American citizens as such.. it is the current government which has been

utilising the politics of fear to achieve where they want to be at the

end of their big trip: being in control of the rest of the world.

Although there many interesting books, documentaries and clips to read

and watch, one book springs to mind: Confessions of an Economic

Hitman by John Perkins. (also docs of his lectures on youtube

). Gives only a little insight of what is happening and worked

on.

Before this ends up in a personal attack bizzo... Lynn,

perhaps we better agree on having the right of having personal

views and freedom of speech. My many American friends are as dear

to me as my friends from around the globe. USA politics affect the whole

world and as a citizen of this planet I have my voice.

H.

At 06:43 AM 7/04/2008, you wrote:

At 04:08 AM 4/6/2008, you