Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Anger derives from the Sanskrit 'ang-haar', ang being the body, haar being to destroy. But the same ang-haar also cooks the food and helps germinate the seed. By the same token, anger has its purpose and use, so long as it remains in the stove and does not fall upon the hearth. This would mean an anger which is very much in restrain, a measured response which is enacted for a predictable purpose. When anger becomes 'ang-haar', it has left the control of the person and has taken over the Will. Now there is no controlling the outcome. Notice this. Anger, to externalize, needs the words, which in turn need the power of the wind to move the vocal cords. Whatever the language one derives from a translation of the Chinese word for anger, the meaning is very clear. If under restrain, anger is good and enacted for a purpose. The words are measured, the ears listen to the response, there is dialogue, and the matter resolved one way or the other. If lost control of, anger becomes rampant, purposeless and chaotic. The words become yelling, the ears are deaf, there is only a monologue, and the matter more complicated than before. Such words are so incisive that sometimes it may take a lifetime to retract these and have these forgiven. Anger is thus words and movement, all Wind based. If anger is lost control of, and words spill out, sooner or later the arm lists to strike. This is child or wife battering, and road, air and domestic rage. Anger particularly injures the weak and the dependent. The specter of an angered healer, of the unspeaking kind, with smoldering fires, is terrifying. Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health professionals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Ken: You mentioned in your other post the idea of the simplest structure of Chinese medicine. > > Nothing more elaborate than what is found in the first few Difficult Questions in the Nan-Ching. The barest philosophy of . Everything else is built on it. Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health professionals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Dr. K, > Anger derives from the Sanskrit 'ang-haar', ang being the body, haar being > to destroy. But the same ang-haar also cooks the food and helps germinate > the seed. There's another attribution given for the root of anger that might interest you. You can find it at: http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE18.html The derivation cited here seems to imply that the roots of the word have to do with pain, angst, anxiety, and in the latter two words we can see the traces of the root still showing. The program I'm working on will be based in New Mexico. You mentioned in your other post the idea of the simplest structure of Chinese medicine. Can you explain where this is found? It sounds like it is quite clear to you, but I'm not sure I understand what you have in mind with that phrase. Thanks, Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 > Is it possible for you to identify any particular > experience or aspect of your education and > training that allowed you to develop this > approach/ability? The incidence directly related to this otherly part of my education in ABT came about 4 years into study. It happened during a tutorial. Tutorial tradition around here is 3 students sign up for 3 hours of tutorial together. Each student gets one hour to focus on an area they feel they need guidance with while the other two sit quietly in the room. The hour starts with the student giving the teacher a treatment. The teacher experiences the student, gives instruction and then guides the student as they give the treatment to one of the other students. Did the two other students realize what happened in the tutorial? No. I think I was just fortunate enough to be ready for a lesson with a teacher who was ready to teach it. The lesson could have been taught by a client if I'd been awake for it. > Can you point out particular deficiencies > in those who have them that make them > so annoying? Deficiencies and excesses are both caused by a stagnation somewhere. Do you agree with me on this? We'd be very cold Hearted to not have emotions. Our emotions are our reflection of the universe. We can watch our emotions but they are not us. In moderation emotions give us a convenient self diagnostic tool of our relationship to the Tao. Taken to extremes (deficiencies and excesses) they can overwhelm our perceptions of anything not as extreme. > > Yes, it is possible to experience a session from the inside out. > > There are some ABTs, acupuncturists and herbalists I will probably > > never consider for treatment or instruction again. > > If you were to design a curriculum or course > of training that would have as one of its aims > providing adequate instruction and guidance > to students to help ensure that they don't end > up on such a list, what would you make sure > to include? Ken, I honestly think there's nothing special about what I expect when receiving an Asian medicine. This chi thing is a two way street. Its a conversation. Admittedly, that I know some of the internal vocabulary is more than the average client. A decade or so back I was at a get together for people who had lost their hearing as adults. I chatted with a man in his mid 50s who had lost his hearing a couple years earlier. He had been a college professor before the deafness happened. I asked him who he felt most comfortable with; people who were born deaf and had a good command of nonverbal communication skills or people who could still hear but had learned nonverbal communication skills. His answer surprised me at that time. It was that he felt most comfortable with people who were hearing and knew absolutely no nonverbal communication skills. He saw my surprise and elaborated. His cultural identity was still as a Hearing. He'd grown up that way. He hadn't given it up. Culturally Deaf people pay attention. When they communicate they realize the responsibility in communication runs to both people conversing. Culturally speaking, Hearings don't care if anyone is listening. They just talk so they can say something. If this story didn't answer your question, I know I have a lot more room for awareness. In the summer I garden. Last winter I wanted to go deeper into Water so I took up working with stained glass. I recently signed up for fiddle lessons. Penel who does shiatsu on a futon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Penel, Thanks for taking the time to reply. I found your post thought provoking and have made a few comments, below. > > The incidence directly related to this otherly part of my education in > ABT came about 4 years into study. > It happened during a tutorial. Sorry, I don't know what ABT is. Can you explain? > > Tutorial tradition around here is 3 students sign up for 3 hours of > tutorial together. > Each student gets one hour to focus on an area they feel they need > guidance with while the other two sit quietly in the room. > The hour starts with the student giving the teacher a treatment. > The teacher experiences the student, gives instruction and then guides > the student as they give the treatment to one of the other students. Sounds like a good approach. Whenver I teach tui na, I have to have the students' hands on me in order to find out what they learned. > > Did the two other students realize what happened in the tutorial? > No. > I think I was just fortunate enough to be ready for a lesson with a > teacher who was ready to teach it. > > The lesson could have been taught by a client if I'd been awake for > it. And can you summarize what the lesson this day was? > > Deficiencies and excesses are both caused by a stagnation somewhere. > Do you agree with me on this? I guess it depends on the context. I never think about such things in terms of how they are, rather of how I can do something about them. I'm never trying to describe " reality " with Chinese medical terms and theories. I'm only trying to manipulate conceptual matrices that allow...or fail to allow access to the dynamics of the individual that need to be...adjusted in order to restore the normal potentials. In other words, I'm not interested in knowing if deficiencies and excesses are both caused by a stagnation. I'm only interested in knowing, with respect to specific circumstances, if a particular deficiency or excess is caused by a stagnation if by relieving that stagnation I can address the issue at hand. Things often have lots of causes, or perhaps we might want to gussy up that term and say causal factors. Mostly we just grope around (particularly in California) until we find one that gives way or produces the intended response...or something like it. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but it touches on a general issue that's been on my mind for a few years now, namely the comparative status of " theory " in Chinese and Western medical frames of reference. > > We'd be very cold Hearted to not have emotions. > Our emotions are our reflection of the universe. > We can watch our emotions but they are not us. > > In moderation emotions give us a convenient self diagnostic tool of > our relationship to the Tao. Why on earth would we want one of those? > Taken to extremes (deficiencies and excesses) they can overwhelm our > perceptions of anything not as extreme. Sorry, I'm lost. All I meant to ask you was, What is so annoying about these people who annoy you? > [...] > I honestly think there's nothing special about what I expect when > receiving an Asian medicine. > This chi thing is a two way street. > Its a conversation. > Admittedly, that I know some of the internal vocabulary is more than > the average client. This I do follow, and I often hear myself describe the whole clinical interaction as a conversation. I know, with respect to this chi thing, that I am always asking the same question, " Where is it? " And I spend the bulk of my time in the clinic following it, listening, changing and then following it some more. > > A decade or so back I was at a get together for people who had lost > their hearing as adults. >... > > If this story didn't answer your question, Very eloquently. Thank you. > > I know I have a lot more room for awareness. > In the summer I garden. > Last winter I wanted to go deeper into Water so I took up working with > stained glass. > I recently signed up for fiddle lessons. Cool. Thanks, again, for your thoughtful post. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Hi All, & HI Holmes, > On the other hand, does the public, should the patient, expect > more from us because we are Healers in the tradition of great > healers of old, with a lineage going back, unbroken, over two > millennia? IMO, yes! They expect us to be empathic listeners, who know (or at least believe that we know) more than they [the " punters " ] know. They expect a sympathetic ear, and some positive directions (guidance, as to a beloved brother or sister) as to what they [the punters] should DO to help themselves. The most fundamental [and earliest] medicine was that of the Priest/Shaman healer. IMO, when it comes to chronic problems, most of our patients know [at least subconsciously] what it is in their lives need to be recognised and changed. It takes a knowledgeable, sympathetic and intuitive listener to divine that and to make practical suggestions to facilitate those changes. IMO, the choice of acupoints for needling/moxa, or herbs [and the time that goes into selecting those] are peripheral to the solution of many medical problems! As Adam Waisel [LIKEMList] said, early [often forgotten] trauma is the causal trigger of many chronic human problems. The effective therapist will help the patient to remember and work through that/those trauma(s) > ... all the marvelous men from Emperor Huang Di who thought to ask > about the 81 Difficult Issues, to Chi Po who chose to answer these > in such marvelous parlance; to upwards of 200 profound healers > whose commnetaries and annotated; to Dr. Hua To; to Yang > Hsuan-ts'ao pf the 7th century; to Li Shih Zhen of 1518 or so; to > Paul U Unschuld of our times; to Ted Kaputcheck who became the > advertant Weaver of our times; and the many more who are brilliant > healers, some known, many not so, quietly working out issues by > candlelight even today, in far reaches of the Hinterland of > Unknowing. Holmes, there are times that your line of thought eludes me. But on this issue, IMO the 81 dificult issues can be multiplied to myriads of difficult issues - the individual realities of our patients' lives. We listen, we sense, and we act with needles, or herbs, or maipulation, etc. But we also make suggestions for change [knowing that our patients will reject [or not comply with] many of these suggestions. > ... Unbroken lineage, whatever system one follows. Wherever we > diagnose and treat, Chi Po stands beside and either frowns. Or > smiles. Holmes And if Qipo were here today, he (she?) would be using high tech [CAT scans, blood work, infrared scans, etc] to add info that he could not have dreamed about then. The Qipo of Huangdi's era was erudite [by the knowledge-base of the day] but had very limited vision by today's knowledge. And what we " hold as scientific truth " today, will be regarded as primitive 1000 years from now. IMO, the best [most productive] anger is the frustration of knowing that one does not know, and the hunger to rectify that, knowing that one will die before that happens! Best regards, Email: < WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Phil: .... Holmes, there are times that your line of thought eludes me. > > That's the main reason people find my writings irresitable [elegant smile]. Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health professionals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 I fear my anger Which is never seen And am angered at my fear Which is aggrieved of my obsessing Which is caught up in the ploy of jeering Joy. And the enormous ignominy of it all is That all this is under the dictate and comment Of the fourth, of the fifth Element. Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health professionals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Anger is permissible if contrived And meted out by precise measure As though it were a rich, kingly treasure. One who angers, must hold the rein So that it carries purpose, but not the pain. If anger is invoked and runs free of the cage It will by its own accord, turn into Rage. Halter anger, and it will serve you well Unchecked, it will create a cruelty-ridden hell. Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health professionals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 wrote: IMO, the best [most productive] anger is the frustration of knowing that one does not know, and the hunger to rectify that, knowing that one will die before that happens! And that is the essence of the Will of Wood: the energy needed to find a solution when a way appears to be blocked. This is movement and change. Anger as a pathology is an emotion that has got stuck, in this case that cannot see the way forward or around or out of a blockage. Anger as the Will of Wood is the motivating, creative force of spring that makes it possible for the seedling to find its way around the rock lying in the way of its growth. It is *not* the pathology. The English names of the Emotions of the Elements are unfortunate because they mostly have negative connotations to us. Who would want to choose Grief? Yet the Will of Metal is what enables us to discern value, what is worth keeping and what letting go. How about Fear? Yet the awareness of the need for an action just in case it's needed is what leads to Knowing How - and that connects us with our Destinies. We might opt for Joy because it sounds good. In balance, Joy helps us connect with Heaven, communication, love. In pathology it becomes excessive inappropriate behavior. Sympathy in pathology is 'me, me, me' or 'not enough for me'. As the Will of Earth it is Intent and understanding. Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 ok. Perhaps we need to ask ourselves if a person can work as a Healer while angry from a different perspective. Would a martial artist want to enter into tournament while angry or examples of any of the other emotions? How would they be at a disadvantage if they did so? Penel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2003 Report Share Posted December 25, 2003 For a perfect system, anger will not arise to the point that it begins to partake qualities of Wayward Wind. What if, long ago, humans simply never became angry to the point of harming others with harsh words, or harsher deeds? If there is so much rage these days, in ever increasing circles of involvement, is the human race deteriorating? Is society as a whole edging towards an end point, beyond which there will be a no-return state, of a world given to mad rage, which is justified by a madder Shen which justifies? Or has that stage already arrived? Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health professionals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2003 Report Share Posted December 25, 2003 Anger must know itself. If one is tendeing to anger and oblivious of it, there will be rage. If anger is self-cognizant, it is contrived, stage managed, and therefore enacted for a purpose. If it is in control, there will be measured words and precise action. If not, ..... ask any battered woman or child, they will tell. Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health professionals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 Hi Karen & All, Karen wrote: > And that is the essence of the Will of Wood ... I liked these ideas very much. Karen (and any others into 5E and the Emotions), would you like to summarise systematically the PRO (life-enhancing) and CON (life- diminishing) aspects of each of the 5 emotions, and their interplays with the 5 Phases? Happy Christmas to all, Best regards, Email: < WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 Chinese Medicine , " dr. k " <aryaone@e...> wrote: > [Laurentiu: > Don't forget that 2004 will be a wooden year (Green Monkey) - Jia- > Shen¥Ò¥Ó. > And because Shen ¥Ó is Metal, " the tree won't grow well under the > axe " .] > > Enigmatic! > > Can you talk a little more about 2004 in these terms? > > Dr. Holmes Keikobad > MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ > www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health > professionals Hi, You can find details on the Green-Monkey year at: http://www.raymond-lo.com/main/monkey.asp Laurentiu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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