Pracitioners teaching western doctors...

[Guest guest]

>I have to say that my experience with this is that I was taught this

syndrome

>not by that name however by Jeffrey Yuen many years ago in the oriental

>medical training I received from him.

 

Could you elaborate on what you were taught please Bobbi, both TCM syndrome

differentiation and treatment? It seems your teacher might have been a rare

bird.

 

>I can often fill in the gaps in the studies where they say they don't know

why

something works

 

Yes even I have been able to do that sometimes afer a short period of

study - it's fascinating to be able to compare the two paradigms and fill in

gaps.

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

>>>>Are you saying most people with the potential to develop syndrome x have

these symptoms?

 

 

I'm afraid I have no idea - it's almost impossible to get to talk to them 10

years before they get Syndrome X! Though having said that, it would be very

interesting to join a Syndrome X if there is one, and ask people

about the earliest symptoms they recall. I don't have it - there are several

sub-sections for insulin resistance syndromes - PCOS is another, and there

is a connection with iron overload conditions. I suspect there are more

manifestations than have yet been described.

 

But that was certainly my experience, and the experience of my horses every

summer. I recognised the pattern because I had the same, though 'Reavens',

hypothyroidism and PCOS were ruled out at the time for me, with no

alternative given. It took me 10 years to realise that 'normal' means 'no

disease we can put a name too' in WM. 'Equine Metabolic Syndrome' is only

just beginning to be defined by the vets some 12 years later.

 

There are some interesting findings with unlikely drugs on that score coming

out - cortisol blockers and seratonin antagonists.

 

But does it sound like a spleen syndrome? I am still unsure how to

differentiate between spleen not supporting kidney and kidney not supporting

spleen. There may be more than one aetiology.

 

Are all your diabetes patients presenting kidney yin deficiency?

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

Hi!

Thanks for Emmanuel's kind words and works. It hasn't been easy to practice in

Hopkins Internal Medicine clinic. All of my CM patients came to me through

words of mouth. It's an honor for me to be the frontier in the US, but I just

try to practice the model which have been working well in Taiwan. The major

medical centers in Taiwan which provide WM and CM. It's a collaborate system.

National health insurance also pay for the CM.

Ta-Ya Lee, CRNP, LAc

 

>>> alonmarcus 08/25/03 12:33PM >>>

My own wife is moving along a path similar to Ta-Ya Lee, both an LAc and an MSN

nurse practitioner. It's our hope that she will have gained some of the

benefits of fitting into the current medical system and yet allowing some of her

own classical Chinese culture to shine through the CM side of her practice.

This is our current strategy. Ta-Ya Lee seems to have successfully pulled this

off. Bravo, Dr. Lee! It's interesting to me that both my wife and Ta-Ya Lee

come from the same part of southern Taiwan.

 

>>>>Emmanuel thans for you kind words. i think it is very possible even these

days. She should do well and hopefully by example influence those around her

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

My own wife is moving along a path similar to Ta-Ya Lee, both an LAc and an MSN

nurse practitioner. It's our hope that she will have gained some of the

benefits of fitting into the current medical system and yet allowing some of her

own classical Chinese culture to shine through the CM side of her practice.

This is our current strategy. Ta-Ya Lee seems to have successfully pulled this

off. Bravo, Dr. Lee! It's interesting to me that both my wife and Ta-Ya Lee

come from the same part of southern Taiwan.

 

>>>>Emmanuel thans for you kind words. i think it is very possible even these

days. She should do well and hopefully by example influence those around her

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

From the perspective of student and patient, the least helpful practitioners

are the ones who arrogantly dismiss the knowledge contained in the other

paradigm. They limit their potential unecessarily in my view, their attitude

is not only detrimental to their cause, but their ability to fulfill their

role as 'healer'.

>>>>Not only that, the problem is more that they cant see outside their own

narrow point of view. They are the same as MDs that choose to not study the

evidence for alternative med. They disease from ignorance and with their loud

barking they do not even realize how dumb they sound

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

Are all your diabetes patients presenting kidney yin deficiency?

 

>>>No

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

Are all your diabetes patients presenting kidney yin deficiency?

 

>>>No

 

..

What other patterns do you find responsible?

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

Without barking too loud Alon, may I ask if you received the GIF you

requested last week, and if so could you make anything of the script ? I

have heard it does not come out as a very good copy and am prepared to

enhance the image 'at this end' and resend if I get any feedback. Same

qusestion to Anand if he is reading this. Sammy.

ALON MARCUS [alonmarcus]

25 August 2003 17:38

Chinese Medicine ;

 

Cc: Chinese Traditional Medicine

Re: Re: Pracitioners teaching western

doctors...

 

 

From the perspective of student and patient, the least helpful

practitioners

are the ones who arrogantly dismiss the knowledge contained in the other

paradigm. They limit their potential unecessarily in my view, their

attitude

is not only detrimental to their cause, but their ability to fulfill their

role as 'healer'.

>>>>Not only that, the problem is more that they cant see outside their

own narrow point of view. They are the same as MDs that choose to not study

the evidence for alternative med. They disease from ignorance and with their

loud barking they do not even realize how dumb they sound

Alon

 

[Guest guest]

may I ask if you received the GIF you

requested last week,

>>>I did not see it

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

What other patterns do you find responsible?

 

Jackie

 

 

>>>I see a lot of excess, Phlegm and blood stasis with some patients having Sp

symptoms some having K or H and some all. Many however do not have clear organ

symptoms and I have to rely of pulse to assume such a problem'

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

That is an ambiguous whisper, Alon.

 

>>>I did not see it

 

Did you receive it?

 

If you received it, did you view it ?

 

If you viewed it, did you see anything ?

 

How about you Anand?

 

Sam.

ALON MARCUS [alonmarcus]

26 August 2003 01:31

Chinese Medicine

Re: Re: Pracitioners teaching western

doctors...

 

 

may I ask if you received the GIF you

requested last week,

>>>I did not see it

Alon

 

[Guest guest]

I've actually moved the picture of the Pi needle. Below is the link to the

folder where it is contained.

 

http://photos.Chinese Medicine/lst?.dir=/Acup\

uncture & .src=gr & .order= & .view=t & .done=http%3a//briefcase./

 

Atti

 

ga.bates wrote:

That is an ambiguous whisper, Alon.

 

>>>I did not see it

 

Did you receive it?

 

If you received it, did you view it ?

 

If you viewed it, did you see anything ?

 

How about you Anand?

 

Sam.

ALON MARCUS [alonmarcus]

26 August 2003 01:31

Chinese Medicine

Re: Re: Pracitioners teaching western

doctors...

 

 

may I ask if you received the GIF you

requested last week,

>>>I did not see it

Alon

 

[Guest guest]

>>>I see a lot of excess, Phlegm and blood stasis with some patients having

>Sp symptoms some having K or H and some all. Many however do not have

>clear organ symptoms and I have to rely of pulse to assume such a problem'

 

Interesting - no liver qi stagnation or liver yin deficiency?

 

There are certainly some vascular effects that are hard to 'see' it seems,

even with expert 'pulse takers', factors that are not apparent in the tongue

either.

 

I think unusual circulatory problems are a huge factor in treating IR

syndromes. The researchers (western and chinese) have lately been looking at

endothelin and nitric oxide pathways a lot. These are involved with

vasoconstriction, which occurs according to insulin concentration

(when vasodilation is what is supposed to happen normally).

 

That was the genesis of the use of Jiao Gu Lan with the horses - it directly

stimulates eNOS release and for many can make a huge difference to

micro-circulation. For some however I think it causes Lv stagnation or yang

problems - some horses get really aggressive or hyper on it, two have

foundered.

 

I'll make a post of some of the papers I have found on the subject - I need

to find someone who has access to such research, and can transate it.

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

hi sammy,

i have not recd the gif file. can you please send it

in word doc form. i shall then reply after reading.

anand

 

 

 

--- ga.bates wrote: > That is an ambiguous

whisper, Alon.

>

> >>>I did not see it

>

> Did you receive it?

>

> If you received it, did you view it ?

>

> If you viewed it, did you see anything ?

>

> How about you Anand?

>

> Sam.

>

> ALON MARCUS [alonmarcus]

> 26 August 2003 01:31

> Chinese Medicine

> Re: Re:

> Pracitioners teaching western

> doctors...

>

>

> may I ask if you received the GIF you

> requested last week,

> >>>I did not see it

> Alon

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

still cant see the pi needle, too light

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

I sent it Anand. Anyhow, I will upload a better version to Attilio's Files

when I have time to improve the original image. Sammy.

anand bapat [acubapat]

27 August 2003 12:43

Chinese Medicine

RE: Re: Pracitioners teaching western

doctors...

 

 

hi sammy,

i have not recd the gif file. can you please send it

in word doc form. i shall then reply after reading.

anand

 

 

 

--- ga.bates wrote: > That is an ambiguous

whisper, Alon.

>

> >>>I did not see it

>

> Did you receive it?

>

> If you received it, did you view it ?

>

> If you viewed it, did you see anything ?

>

> How about you Anand?

>

> Sam.

>

> ALON MARCUS [alonmarcus]

> 26 August 2003 01:31

> Chinese Medicine

> Re: Re:

> Pracitioners teaching western

> doctors...

>

>

> may I ask if you received the GIF you

> requested last week,

> >>>I did not see it

> Alon

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>