Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2003 There is quite a bit of controversy even about this technique, however. NAET is, in many ways, a system unto itself (by contrast).>>>> I do not see any difference. If muscle testing is a viable technique, then any development of practitioners be they Japanese of US are valid.I do not think its used in "general realm of Japanese practice" Alon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2003 See the discussions in: 1) Dr. Yoshio Manaka's " Chasing the Dragon's Tail " 2) Anything by Yoshiaki Omura (esp. " Acupuncture Medicine " 3) Chip Chace's and Miki Shima's " The Channel Divergences " . I would further ask you, 'viable technique for what'? On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 09:01 PM, Alon Marcus wrote: > > I do not see any difference. If muscle testing is a viable technique, > then any development of practitioners be they Japanese of US are > valid.I do not think its used in " general realm of Japanese practice " > Alon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2003 'viable technique for what'?>>>>Reliability for anything Alon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2003 1) Dr. Yoshio Manaka's "Chasing the Dragon's Tail" 2) Anything by Yoshiaki Omura (esp. "Acupuncture Medicine" 3) Chip Chace's and Miki Shima's "The Channel Divergences".>>>>Zev these are not mainstream Japanese acupuncture texts or techniques Alon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2003 , " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: > 1) Dr. Yoshio Manaka's " Chasing the Dragon's Tail " 2) Anything by Yoshiaki Omura (esp. " Acupuncture Medicine " 3) Chip Chace's and Miki Shima's " The Channel Divergences " . > > >>>>Zev these are not mainstream Japanese acupuncture texts or techniques > > Alon AFAIK the O-ring test doesn't get used much outside of Shinkyuu Topology Gakkai (Manaka, Irie, etc and their students like Miki Shima) or Omura's group, two practitioner organizations out of a hundred or so in Japan. robert hayden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2003 AFAIK the O-ring test doesn't get used much outside of Shinkyuu Topology Gakkai (Manaka, Irie, etc and their students like Miki Shima) or Omura's group, two practitioner organizations out of a hundred or so in Japan. robert hayden>>>>Robert i know that. But how excepted the O-ring is test is in general? How much discussion is there on its usefulness? Since it is not different then any other "muscle testing" and there have been good studies in the US on muscle testing (not orthopedic) and all the good studies are negative. Did anybody outside the group in Japan studied these? Thanks Alon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2003 How is it that O-ring testing (using the thumb and index finger of the practitioner) is different from " muscle testing " which I experienced as yanking down on the extended arm of the patient? its still measuring muscle resistance or strength, is that not so? On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 09:10 PM, wrote: > See the discussions in: 1) Dr. Yoshio Manaka's " Chasing the Dragon's > Tail " 2) Anything by Yoshiaki Omura (esp. " Acupuncture Medicine " 3) > Chip Chace's and Miki Shima's " The Channel Divergences " . > > I would further ask you, 'viable technique for what'? > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 09:01 PM, Alon Marcus wrote: > >> >> I do not see any difference. If muscle testing is a viable technique, >> then any development of practitioners be they Japanese of US are >> valid.I do not think its used in " general realm of Japanese >> practice " >> Alon >> -- Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. -Adlai Stevenson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2003 , " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: > >>>>Robert i know that. But how excepted the O-ring is test is in general? How much discussion is there on its usefulness? Since it is not different then any other " muscle testing " and there have been good studies in the US on muscle testing (not orthopedic) and all the good studies are negative. Did anybody outside the group in Japan studied these? > Thanks Alon I can't claim to be the final authority on the subject as the teachers I have studied with tend to be focused in the meridian therapy groups. Most used primarily pulse and abdominal dx, nobody I studied with used o-ring. The feedback mechanism I was taught was changes in pulse & hara (most of these teachers tended to have fairly high consistency in pulse dx findings between them). Most acupuncturists study outside their own groups, there are lots of seminars in Japan, so I'm sure a lot of people have been exposed to o- ring testing. The majority of Japanese acupuncturists have more of a physical medicine emphasis, so I suspect their major dx method is palpation of anatomical structures, ROM, etc. The meridian therapy groups (Nan jing based) are about 25% of the Japanese acupuncture population, and the other 25% is everybody else, including the Topology group (who one prominent teacher I studied with labeled " science fiction " acupuncturists) among many others. O-ring I think is pretty controversial even in Japan. Omura I think lives in NY now, and there are a number of Topology Gakkai students/members in the US, so that I think gives the perception that o-ring, ion-pumping, etc are more popular than they really are in Japan. One teacher said he thought there were more people using IP cords in the US than in Japan. Again, these are all perceptions and opinions, I haven't seen any hard data on the subject. robert hayden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2003 Probably not. Folks, I am not in favor of o-ring testing, perhaps my argument was misunderstood. All I was saying was that NAET has developed a systematic approach to using kinesiological testing and treatment, and that it is a lot more than just one technique at this point. Practicing it is like practicing a different system of healing than Chinese medicine (although there may be superficial similarities, like use of acupuncture needles on specific points). O-ring testing is simply a technique used within the practice of Japanese acupuncture. It has not evolved into a separate system. This is what I meant by 'mainstream'. Not that it was universally accepted in Japan, but that it wasn't a competing system. On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 09:51 AM, al stone wrote: > How is it that O-ring testing (using the thumb and index finger of the > practitioner) is different from " muscle testing " which I experienced > as yanking down on the extended arm of the patient? its still > measuring muscle resistance or strength, is that not so? > > On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 09:10 PM, wrote: > >> See the discussions in: 1) Dr. Yoshio Manaka's " Chasing the Dragon's >> Tail " 2) Anything by Yoshiaki Omura (esp. " Acupuncture Medicine " 3) >> Chip Chace's and Miki Shima's " The Channel Divergences " . >> >> I would further ask you, 'viable technique for what'? >> >> >> On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 09:01 PM, Alon Marcus wrote: >> >>> >>> I do not see any difference. If muscle testing is a viable >>> technique, then any development of practitioners be they Japanese of >>> US are valid.I do not think its used in " general realm of Japanese >>> practice " >>> Alon >>> > -- > > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > -Adlai Stevenson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2003 Robert thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2003 In a message dated 7/11/03 11:22:34 AM, alonmarcus writes: AFAIK the O-ring test doesn't get used much outside of Shinkyuu Topology Gakkai (Manaka, Irie, etc and their students like Miki Shima) or Omura's group, two practitioner organizations out of a hundred or so in Japan. robert hayden >>>>Robert i know that. But how excepted the O-ring is test is in general? How much discussion is there on its usefulness? Since it is not different then any other "muscle testing" and there have been good studies in the US on muscle testing (not orthopedic) and all the good studies are negative. Did anybody outside the group in Japan studied these? Thanks Alon Actually, there is a pretty big following in the AAMA for the "o ring" test, and someone from that group might chime in here. To me, it sounds like some sort of Irish tinnitis examination. David Molony Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 13, 2006 , " debwork03 " <debwork03 wrote: > > Muscle testing is a quick way to get a " yes " or " no " answer. > > Just beware of how you phrase the question > - Ariel Muscular testing is also called kinesiology test or kine test. Do be careful of your question, your intention when asking the question and try to ask the question in different forms (as in : Do I like apples? Do I dislike apples? Am I allergic to apples?) A " yes " is usually a real " yes " , but a " no " could mean that you didn't ask the right question. Or that you resist the answer that your body or the crystal (depending who your were trying to have answers from) really want to give. I do ask my crystals if they need cleansing and the only time so far they said " yes " was when I first got them. Josee Reprogramming kinesiology practitionner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 11, 2008 My local WAP group was talking about muscle testing, and someone recommended this article for a brief overview of it. Info is towards the bottom of the page. cyndi http://naturopath4you.com/Published_Article.htmNew MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News more. Try it out! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 14, 2008 Alex, You mentioned muscle testing before you buy supps at the HFS. Can you describe your method? Thanks Janet -- " The need for peace and understanding between the peoples of the world has never been as great as now. Peace can only come with understanding, and travel is an important means of acquiring it. " --Vincenzo MarcolongoI.A.M.A.T. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 14, 2008 I personally use the O ring test that can be found here: http://www.fitnessforoneandall.com/difficulties/article/naet/self.htm Strong muscle test means the supplement is good for you. A weak muscle test means it is not... at least for that day. Your bodies needs shift all the time. Donna Eden has a few Youtube videos that show how to do muscle testing on yourself as well as others. A simple YOutube search for Donna Eden and or Energy Medicine. She also teaches how to get your energies running for optimal health. I love that woman. The next link shows how to test and correct a few energy problems. http://www.feelingfree.net/awareness/selftest.htm The above site has tons of Info and lots of energy corrections. Hope that answers your questions and if not feel free to ask more. Alex oleander soup , lostrin <lostrin wrote: > > Alex, > > You mentioned muscle testing before you buy supps at the HFS. Can you > describe your method? > > Thanks > Janet > > > > > > > > > > -- > " The need for peace and understanding between the peoples of the world has > never been as great as now. Peace can only come with understanding, and > travel is an important means of acquiring it. " > > --Vincenzo Marcolongo > I.A.M.A.T. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
