Introduction

[Guest guest]

The point i was trying to make is that it is not a 'outside'

explanation of how it works, but rather a modern way (tongue) of

discribing the whole of CM and Dao theory. This modern tongue, i

believe, was used in ancient times but given a different name and

language.

 

The Chinese understand alot more of CM than we do now and the wider

implications of it all. We had previous knowledge that has been lost

over time and not the other way round with the notion of a 'new age'

revolution.

 

I understand and agree the idea of understanding the topic from

within. But i don't agree with the idea you stated of

the 'energetic' theory being wholly Western. But i do agree that we

have a long way to go before we completely understand CM.

 

Attilio

 

-- In Chinese Medicine , " "

<zrosenbe@s...> wrote:

> The point is not whether I agree or disagree ( I have looked at

> Gerber's work, and found it interesting), but that if the Chinese

could

> understand acupuncture and herbalism within the vast body of

literature

> of Chinese medicine, why do we need outside explanations to

understand

> it? This implies that the Chinese did not understand what they

were

> doing.

>

> In other words, the understanding of a discipline has to FIRST

come

> from within that discipline. What I find offensive (not in this

group)

> in the present medical climate is the idea that somehow Chinese

> medicine will not be valid, despite its centuries of employment,

> without some type of Western explanation, whether biomedical or

> 'energetic'.

>

> There is still a cavernous lack of understanding of the basic

concepts

> of our profession by many of its practitioners, students and

teachers.

> There are still misunderstandings about qi, channels, pattern

> differentiation and other of the central concepts of Chinese

medicine.

> When we have these lacunae, we fill them up with explanations from

> outside sources that never had any influence on the Chinese.

>

> One great help is to begin the study of Chinese medical

terminology and

> medical Chinese. Even a little will go a long way in helping

> understanding this product of generations that we need to practice

and

> study with great awe and respect. Otherwise we are guilty of the

same

> cultural bias we are so quick to criticize.

>

>

> On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 12:29 AM, wrote:

>

> > If you don't agree with this form of theory, how would you

explain

> > the mechanisms of acupuncture and herbalism? Herbalism may be

easily

> > explained through the notion of complex compounds being fused

> > together to form unique constructs, but how would you explain

> > acupuncture and the Jinglou system other than in terms of pain

> > management?

[Guest guest]

Dear Attilio,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I think one way to go from

here is to look at the terms 'etheric' and 'energetic'. What do they

mean, and did the Chinese have the same or similar concepts? If not,

is our projection accurate?

 

 

On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 10:57 AM, wrote:

 

> I understand and agree the idea of understanding the topic from

> within. But i don't agree with the idea you stated of

> the 'energetic' theory being wholly Western. But i do agree that we

> have a long way to go before we completely understand CM.

>

> Attilio

[Guest guest]

I agree, we do need to look at the concepts of etheric and energetic. Its been something that i've been passionate about for some 9 years, before i came into TCM. We'll see what the future holds and what the past was.

 

Attilio <zrosenbe wrote:

Dear Attilio,Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I think one way to go from here is to look at the terms 'etheric' and 'energetic'. What do they mean, and did the Chinese have the same or similar concepts? If not, is our projection accurate?On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 10:57 AM, wrote:> I understand and agree the idea of understanding the topic from> within. But i don't agree with the idea you stated of> the 'energetic' theory being wholly Western. But i do agree that we> have a long way to go before we completely understand CM.>> AttilioAttilio

www.chinesedoctor.co.uk

Chinese Traditional Medicine! Plus - For a better Internet experience

[Guest guest]

Well, here's me again, not yet up to speed with the Word update, so if you have a minute could you send this one the way you sent the other ones that i was then able to read?

Thanks bunches once again.

ann

 

 

In an effort to explain the two together, i've enlosed an article i wrote on cellular memory and Zangfu theory. I hope this helps to bridge the two ideas together.

 

Atti

[Guest guest]

Your point is well taken, Z'ev, however I see no reason for people outside of Chinese medicine to help further to the context of understanding of the THEORIES of Chinese medicine. This is not based on my lack of understanding or faith in Chinese medicine, and further, I don't believe that these new ideas should in any govern the practice of Chinese medicine. I would disagree with your statement, "This implies that the Chinese did not understand what they were doing." The way I see it is that people outside Chinese medicine are so enthralled with the medicine that they are striving to understand it from their point of reference. I agree that this is not the only reason people do this work, however, the case in point would likely fall into my first assertion.

 

thomas

 

 

Chinese Herbology and Acupunctureacupuncture and herbal informationWilliams, OR 97544 USAphone: (541) 955-5031 fax: (541) 955-5069"Knowing nothing, you will be aware of everything." Lao Tzu

 

Z'ev said:

 

The point is not whether I agree or disagree ( I have looked at Gerber's work, and found it interesting), but that if the Chinese could understand acupuncture and herbalism within the vast body of literature of Chinese medicine, why do we need outside explanations to understand it? This implies that the Chinese did not understand what they were doing.

[Guest guest]

welcome Amir,

you can share your experiences here.

tanveer

 

Georges_Amir_Künzler <watsuturtle wrote:

Hello

I am pleased to join the news group. Here is a quick introduction my

name is Georges Amir, i am currently working in a beautiful hot springs in the

Swiss Alps doing Shiatsu and Watsu. I am looking to expend my knowledge

in traditional Chinese medicine to do better work with my clients.

I was trained first in Poona India, and did a 500-Hours training in Harbin Hot

Spring, California. My e-mail is also lewatsu

Thank you and i am looking forward to exchange with

you and

discover what this site is all about .

 

Georges Amir Kunzler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Amir. Could u give me some information on Watsu? I got classes and some

prctice, but I could never really do work on channels or points during it.

I'd like to have your word about it.

Thanks, Roberta

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the list, Daniel .... I look forward to your postings.

 

be well, Maya

[Guest guest]

Hi Daniel,

 

Thank you for joining us. Your location in Zhejiang puts you very near the Tianmu Shan mountains. Do you ever leave the city and travel into the remote areas? Do you ever seek out the herb growers indigenous to your region? Perhaps speaking Mandarin only is not enough to speak with the local people in their dialect.

 

What is it that you teach and study?

 

Such are my thoughts as I try to picture myself with you in your location.

 

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

-

Daniel Luthi

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:32 AM

Traditional (TCM) Introduction

Hi all,My name is Daniel C. Luthi. Originally fromSwitzerland, I have spent the last many years studyingand teaching nutrition and preventivemedicine/lifestyle in the Bay Area, California. I'vealso been studying Chinese herbal medicine since 1999,and I'm currently living near Hangzhou, ZhejiangProvince, again teaching and studying. I speak someMandarin, and I may be able to answer some questionsconcerning language in conjunction with TCM,especially herbs. Nutrition and herbs have been apassion of mine for a long time, and I'm lookingforward to learning from this group as well as sharingmy humble thoughts. I'm also a member of CHA where Imay have "met" some of you before. Good health to all of you,Daniel C. Luthi, Nutrition Educator For practitioners, students and those interested in Traditional (TCM) ranging from acupuncture, herbal medicine, tuina and nutrition.Membership rules require that you adhere to NO commercial postings, NO religious postings and NO spam.Web site homepage: Chinese Medicine/

[Guest guest]

the current herbal formula that i'm taking regularly to reduce cortisol and

so reduce nerve response and therefore muscle spasms and pain is based on

TCM

 

 

Hello Reya,

 

I am very interested to hear what herbs/formulas you are taking to reduce

cortisol? Did you have confirmed high blood cortisol??

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

Hell Michi offer your work at beauty salons , there is a market there.

We just hope you are making them to beautiful or you will end up in Hollywood .

)

Vanessa

>>

 

Michi Naomoto <mnaomoto wrote:

Hello everyone,

I'm Michi and I just graduated from the Middlesex Uni.

TCM course.

I used to be a member of this group til I got thrown

out misteriously one day, so I rejoined.

 

At the moment, I'm mainly interested in finding work.

Yes, it's not easy.

 

Otherwise I'm interested in beauty therapies with

chinese medicine. This summer, I took an intensive

course in " Facial Acupoint Treatment " , which is a

facial massage using acupoint on the face and is great

for keeping up appearances.

 

There's not much info re TCM beauty therapies, so if

you know anything or anyone who's practising it,

please let me know.

 

Keep in touch.

Michi

 

 

 

______________________

Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE

Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk

 

 

[Guest guest]

Michi,

 

I'm very interested in the understanding

of beauty and esthetics...particularly

cognitive esthetics...in terms of Chinese

medicine.

 

What was covered in the intensive you

did over the summer?

 

Ken

 

Chinese Medicine , Michi

Naomoto <mnaomoto> wrote:

> Hello everyone,

> I'm Michi and I just graduated from the Middlesex Uni.

> TCM course.

> I used to be a member of this group til I got thrown

> out misteriously one day, so I rejoined.

>

> At the moment, I'm mainly interested in finding work.

> Yes, it's not easy.

>

> Otherwise I'm interested in beauty therapies with

> chinese medicine. This summer, I took an intensive

> course in " Facial Acupoint Treatment " , which is a

> facial massage using acupoint on the face and is great

> for keeping up appearances.

>

> There's not much info re TCM beauty therapies, so if

> you know anything or anyone who's practising it,

> please let me know.

>

> Keep in touch.

> Michi

>

>

>

>

 

______________________

> Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE

 

> Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk

[Guest guest]

Thank you very much for your introductory message. I think quite a

lot of people still haven't presented a short biography to the

group, including myself, so here is me:

 

Attilio D'Alberto is a final year, undergraduate studying for a BSc

(Hons) in Traditional (TCM) at Middlesex and

Beijing Universities. His current interests in specific areas of TCM

include addiction and cellular memory, both in relation to TCM. He

has various articles published at The Pulse of Oriental Medicine

(www.pulsemed.org/attiliobio.htm ), TCM Central

(www.tcmcentral.com ), TCM Student (www.tcmstudent.com ) and at The

Web Journal of Acupuncture

(http://users.med.auth.gr/~karanik/english/webjour.htm ). He also

runs his own website Chinesedoctor.co.uk and a TCM :

Chinese Traditional Medicine/

 

Attilio

 

Chinese Medicine , " Wainwright

Churchill " <WChurchill@b...> wrote:

> I've contributed a little to this discussion group, and didn't

realise that a short note about myself was called for.

>

> I've been an acupuncturist and Chinese herbal medicine

practitioner in London for about 17 years, having studied with Van

Buren, Ted Kaptchuk, Giovanni Maciocia, and Thong Nguyen (a third

generation Vietnamese Chinese herbalist/acupuncturist). I've been an

officer in the Register of Chinese Herbal Medicine and European

Herbal Practitioners Association, dealing primarily with political

and registration issues, and was an early member of the British

Acupuncture Council Committee considering the state regulation of

acupuncture. I have contributed articles to the Journal of Chinese

Medicine and the European Journal of Oriental Medicine, and have

been host of the British Acupuncture Council email discussion group

for many years (so a lot of this discussion group material is along

familiar lines - but my congratulations to Attilio for hosting such

a productive and stimulating group!). Among my concerns have been

the paradigm issues associated with practising Chinese medicine in

the West.

>

> Wainwright Churchill

>

>

[Guest guest]

Andrea,

 

Welcome to the party.

 

If there's one thing I can't resist it's

a majestic illusion.

 

Can you tell me how you are going about

learning Chinese? it's a pasttime of mine.

In fact, I think the Chinese language is the

single most engaging subject of study that

I've run into.

 

Where are you located?

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

I look forward to getting to know each of you! Thanks for having me

here!

 

Andrea

___________________________

 

thanks for joining and so warmly introduce yourself

Actually your introduction must have had some magic in it

this is the first time I got Really interested in learning chinese and

herbs!

and taosit tai chi.... I must have missed a lot!!!

howdidyoudothat? :-)

 

Holger

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Ken!

 

Thank you for the warm welcome.

 

 

<<<Can you tell me how you are going about

learning Chinese? it's a pasttime of mine.>>>

 

As I wanted to learn to read and write Chinese, as well as speak it,

I chose an integrated program for self-study. I'm using Daozhong Yao

and Ted Yao's " Integrated Chinese " texts/workbooks, starting with the

simplified characters, and a few excellent on-line resources that I

found through the www.mandarintools.com website, and a few other

sites. I also hope to get the tapes to go along with the texts, as

Pinyin isn't terribly helpful for pronounciation! " Beginner's

Chinese, " by Yong Ho is also a good, reasonably cheap, text, as Ho

makes the effort to explain grammer rules, which most texts seem to

skip over.

 

I've been learning Scottish Gaelic (Gaidhlig) on my own for about a

year and a half, and actually co-run a Gaidhlig group on . I

seem to do relatively well learning languages, and have no real

difficulty learning on my own, but not being able to frequently speak

with Gaidhlig speakers has been a drawback. I read/write much better

than I speak. My pronounciation is a little less than perfect!

 

I also speak Russian, but have gotten quite rusty over the years.

It's the only language I've learned formally (when I was in the

Military), but although I was fluent, I can't say I get to use it

very often.

 

 

<<<I think the Chinese language is the

single most engaging subject of study that

I've run into.>>>

 

I'm fascinated with Chinese brush painting and also Chinese

calligraphy, and really look forward to being able to write in

Chinese, as well as speak and understand it. I agree, its a

very engaging language, and understanding it will only enhance

the other areas of the culture I already find so attractive!

 

 

<<<Where are you located?>>>

 

I'm in California. How about yourself?

 

 

Best wishes,

 

Andrea

[Guest guest]

Holger wrote:

 

<<< thanks for joining and so warmly introduce yourself

Actually your introduction must have had some magic in it

this is the first time I got Really interested in learning

chinese and herbs! and taosit tai chi.... I must have

missed a lot!!!

 

howdidyoudothat? :-)>>>

 

 

*Grin* It must have been a majestic illusion! lol.

Actually, I tend to think enthusiasm is contageous. I'm very

happy I've inspired you! Woohoo.

 

I find so much of Chinese philosophy and culture fascinating.

The more I learn, the more I'm attracted to it. I also think

that Chinese practices tend to fill in a lot of gaps that

exist in Western tradition, where self-enlightenment and

spiritual thought have been displaced by science, technology,

and Western religion.

 

Its a pitty to allow the more thoughtful and spiritual part

of our experience go unanswered! And, that is one great things

about Chinese traditions such as Taoism, Qigong/Tai Chi,

Chinese medicine, and even art. They can fill in those gaps,

regardless of our spiritual path and/or religious preferences,

or what Western traditions and practices we employ in our lives,

helping us to achieve our higher, more enlightened and healthier

selves.

 

I must admit, I find the side effects just as fulfilling as

the end result!

 

Best wishes,

 

Andrea =o)

[Guest guest]

Andrea,

 

Thanks for the info.

 

I'm in New Mexico at the moment but will

be in California next month. I'll be attending

the PCOM symposium in November in San Diego.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

Very cool Ken!

 

I looked into PCOM's program a few months back, but

unfortunately I live too far away to attend their

campus. If only they had a campus in the Bay Area

or in Sac. ;-)

 

From what I saw of this year's symposium, there are

some excellent topics to be presented. I could also

use the CEU's, actually. heh. Maybe next year. I hope

you'll share what you learn with us!

 

Which seminars are you planning to attend?

" Reclaiming the Authentic Self " and " Spirituality and

" both look really good!

 

I'd love to hear more!

 

Andrea

[Guest guest]

> enthusiasm is contageous. I'm very

happy I've inspired you! Woohoo.

 

lol

(or in swedish hahaha or hehehehe or hihihihi)

 

> I also think

that Chinese practices tend to fill in a lot of gaps that

exist in Western tradition, where self-enlightenment and

spiritual thought have been displaced by science, technology,

and Western religion.

 

well formulated

 

I am happy you're on the list.

 

Holger

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Andrea,

 

I plan to go to PCOM this year and just see

what's shakin.

 

I've been on this grassroots campaign to

foster literacy with respect to Chinese

medical language and literature for a

few years now. And this year at PCOM

I'm hoping to pump up the volume...

 

 

....at the grassroots level.

 

Aside from the great stuff that goes on

in the courserooms, I'm always fascinated

by the goings on in other spaces at these

big gatherings.

 

I want to get together with people who are

interested in talking about truth and reconciliation.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

Dear Abdul,

 

Welcome to the group. Please do not hesitate to address any topic

discussed on this list. I'm sure we all can benefit from your

experience as a physician.

 

Regards,

 

Fernando

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , abdul jalal

<abduljalal> wrote:

> Dear Attilio,

>

> Thank you very much for your email. First of all I am very sorry

for late introduction.

>

> I am Abdul Jalal, Medical Doctor Practicing Dubai United Arab

Emirates. I am an allopathic Doctor same time I have studied

Differet types of therapies as follows:-

>

> Ayurveda, Homoeopathy, Batch Flower therapy, Electro Homoepathy,

Indo Allopathy,

> Yoga, Naturopathy, Reflexology, Acupressure, Acupuncture, Reiki,

Pranic Healing,

> Jhin shin Jyutsu, Su Jok therapy etc.

>

> Presently I am learning TCM from China Hospital Through Distant

learning. Once my courses will finish then I will be visiting China

for the Practical Training.

>

> Since I am an infant in TCM I do not wish to post any messages

which would not be appropriate.

>

> Thanks to all members of the group. I have given all my details at

my profile

>

> http://profiles./abduljalal

>

> Regards,

>

> Dr. Abdul Jalal, D.I.A.M.S., MD.

>

>

>

>

> The New with improved product search

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris

i'm sure you will get a hearty welcome here...

we could say it VERY active indeed.

oodles of good stuff to learn about and comment on here,

right all?

 

see you around

Persis

 

 

 

 

--- Chris Dance <chris.dance wrote:

 

Hello

This is my introduction for the TCM ... My name

is Chris

Dance. I trained at CICM in Reading UK, qualifying this

year. I practice

using TCM and 5E style acupuncture and am enjoying it

immensely. I am

also establishing a team of acupuncturists in Brighton to

attend

childbirths and ante- / post- natal treatments.

I was recommended this list by a new friend I met at the

British

Acupuncture Council conference this week. It looks very

active and

lively and I'm looking forward to joining in!

Best wishes

Chris

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Robin,

I am in TX also. Good to see you here.

Rita

Kelsei's Creations

Original Divider Soap Molds, Monio Oil, Tamanu Oil, Soap Making Supplies,

Woodworking, Handmade Soaps, Lotions. Check out our Sale Page and Quick Buy

Pages.

http://www.kelseiscreations.com

Join KELSEI'S CREATIONS

http://www.kelseiscreations/

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the list Melissa,

 

Make yourself at home, and feel free to jump in any time, either with

questions, or opinions you may have on the wide range of topics we tend

to chat about here. Yeah, its a list mostly about oils and herbs, but we

sometimes have a tendency to digress (hence the etc part). Its great to

have you aboard! I hope you like it here

 

*Smile*

Chris (list mom)

http://www.alittleolfactory.com

 

 

 

 

mlmhrb [mbell]

Saturday, January 03, 2004 7:00 PM

 

Introduction

 

 

Just wanted to post a brief introduction. My name is Melissa and I

am in lovely East Tennessee. Butch Owens was kind enough to direct

me here when I placed my first order with him a few days ago. I

recently switched to a more natural makeup and skincare line made by

an aromatherapist, and as a result have become interested in

essential oils and their uses. I'll probably lurk most of the time

and post the occasional question. I don't expect to do more

than " dabble " a little with EOs for personal use, but I like to learn

and this seems to be a good place to do so!

 

Thanks,

 

Melissa