vegan

January 8, 2010

I think big pharma is behind the push for a lot of unhealthful eating because then when a little something goes wrong and the 'tests' that big pharma makes (yeah, that's who makes medical tests and makes the charts on what is normal) say that 'something is wrong with you', or maybe you get muscle twitched from bad nerve transmission, ............or some other thing that big pharma has conveniently already made a 'pill' for. Of course after you take that pill, there will be side effects that require more pills and before you know it you wake up and you are on twenty pills a day and that's exactly what big pharma is aiming for. The same with salt..... they said 'salt is bad for you', but then stuff starts to happen, and a whole new disease is created from the lack of salt when it causes harm in healthy people. Just look at the so called new disease NEURALLY MEDIATED HYPOTENSION, and even Chronic

Fatigue Syndrome or CFIDS has been associated with a too low salt intake.

There is a pretty decent article here about both of those problems.

http://www.ncf-net.org/forum/orthostatic98.htm

ashred25 <ashbar25 Sent: Fri, 8 January, 2010 15:00:47 Re: vegan

How do you figure that Big Pharma & Big Agriculture are the financial backers behind the studies indicating we should all become vegetarian/vegan? What would Big Pharm/Ag have to gain from a whole world of vegetarians, when the most money is made from meat?I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm truly interested in this topic. I recently stopped eating meat, almost exclusively for health reasons. I have IBS & cervical dysplasia (treated earlier this year with LEEP) and slowly reduced my meat intake until I gave it up altogether. I feel better than I ever have, although my IBS isn't completely gone (probably because I still eat dairy).What about those thriving vegans out there who claim to never get sick, exercise vigorously, and are healthy at every checkup? Surely the lifestyle works for some people if they do it right, even if it's detrimental for others?What is it you learn about what the body is missing in the diet from

watching people in a health food store? Again, not being snarky, just curious...Ashley , Wil Spencer <wilspencer@ ...> wrote:>> I know the Gerson Tharopy well. I have had several relative that have got rid of cancer that way. In my opinion, eating just a vegan/veggi diet is basically inducing a fast. When you put into the body what it can not be nourished with the body has to use its energy reserves to process. In the process of digesting the food that you get no or very little nourishment from the body consumes its own reserves to process the food. This in my mind is like fasting. So the body will consume the toxins first to in an attempt to survive. Then the cellulite and finally the soft tissue and the connective tissue. This is, in almost

every case, what I have dealt with in the clinic with vegan/veggi diet minded people. Just go to a vegetarian/health food market or cafe' and sit and observe, like I have done for hundreds of hours. The body, if you know what to look for, will tell you what is missing in the diet with just observing. I have done this in an attempt> to disprove the theory of, vegan/veggi as a good choice to health, which it is not.> > I would agree that animal protein in the general market is toxic and should not be eaten by any human. Just watch the movie "Food Inc.". But on a biological and electrical view of our body, we need to consume animal or fish protein to have vibrant health. I have spent years researching this very topic. You really need to look at who is behind the science studies. It is the pharmacutical and big agriculture. These studies are not carried out for our own benefit to human health, they are advanced marketing tools for big

industry. One of my former clients and friend Dr. Michael Steffy of Queens University, a 40 year educator of Anthropology, has brought this interesting fact to my awareness. He has always stated, "just follow the money, you will find out the root idea of the study".> > Lets look at history for a moment. My father told me, the diet we see today that is concidered healthy was the diet in 1928 the government fed to the poor people on welfare, orphanages and in the prisons. Just look at who is behind the food pyramid you see today, it says United States Dept. of Agriculture, just like the food pyramid of 1928. Does not say anything about a health dept! USDA of today is about big business and big business only!> > Wil Spencer VMSP, Naturopath, author, researcher> Vibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working with the body's electrical system which consists of all muscles, connective tissue,nerve sheaths, rod and cone

cells of the eyes and the DNA.> > "The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause and prevention of disease." Thomas Edison> "Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right." Henry Ford> "Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its strength." Corrie Ten Boom> "Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought." Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel Prize for Medicine 1937 > > http://mbsre- set..com > http://environotics .com > http://beeassist. com > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________

__> "ameliagerlach@ ..." <ameliagerlach@ ...>> > Fri, January 8, 2010 11:26:12 AM> RE: Re: vegan> > > I totally agree with Vicki. Look at what the Gerson Therapy has> done for so many people with cancer, healing them in spite of their grim> prognostics, by using a vegan diet. > Amelia> > > natural_ healing- [natural_ healing-] On> Behalf Of ohlyvicki> Friday, January 08, 2010 11:22 AM> > Re: vegan> > > OMG, I can't believe what I am reading> here.....According to all the new

studies coming out a plant based diet is the> only healthy way to eat. You have to educate yourself and eat the right things> ... Please read The China Study or Anti Cancer.... Meat is not healthy for us> or dairy. sugar and processed foods... A diet with fruits, vegetables, whole> grains, nuts, and legumes is healing and healthy..... You can get ALL the> protien and amino acids you need from a vegan diet. For me it is not a moral> choice , I wish to continue to live......> Please educate yourselves.. ..... > Regards, Vicki> > ,> Wil Spencer <wilspencer@ ..> wrote:> >> > Generally low blood counts are related to the body's ability to convert the> amino acids and minerals into life force.> > Eating a diet high of insoluble fiber, which is virtually void of life> force to any human leads to

severe depletions. The main one in females is a> hormone imbalance.> > On a moral view I can agree it is an individual choice, but on a> biological and electrical view of the body is a slow death sentence.> > I speak from the view of a health care provider. In my clinic I have seen> time and time again, how the moral choice of vegan/veggy mines the body of> vital minerals and amino acid stores. I would beg you to do your research! I> have seen so many people killing themselves because of the lack of knowledge of> how the body works biologically and electrically, and I was one of them 16> years ago.> > > > Wil Spencer VMSP, Naturopath, author, researcher> > Vibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working with the body's> electrical system which consists of all muscles, connective tissue,nerve> sheaths, rod and cone cells of the eyes and the

DNA.> > > > "The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest> patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause and> prevention of disease." Thomas Edison> > "Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right."> Henry Ford> > "Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its> strength." Corrie Ten Boom> > "Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen and> thinking what no one else has thought." Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel Prize> for Medicine 1937 > > > > http://mbsre- set.com > > http://environotics .com > > http://beeassist. com > > > > > >

> > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > "ameliagerlach@ ..." <ameliagerlach@ ...>> > > > Thu, January 7, 2010 12:31:45 PM> > RE: vegan> > > > > > I think itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s an individual choice, in the sense that every> > person responds differently, depending on their body. I do find that meat> > stimulates autoimmunity in my body, but like I mentioned, I need a little> to> > keep my blood counts up.> > Amelia> > > > > > natural_ healing- > > [natural_ healing-] On Behalf Of Wil Spencer> > Thursday, January 07, 2010 12:29 PM> > > > Re:

vegan> > > > > > I was a vegan for 3 years> > until my body started to fall apart. Which lead me down a very passionate> > path on how the body works. My body took over 6 years to recover from a> > three and a half year vegan life style. > > Vegan/vegetarian life style is a moral choice not a biologically sound> diet> > choice.> > > > Wil Spencer VMSP,> > Naturopath, author, researcher> > Vibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working> > with the body's electrical system which consists of all muscles,> connective> > tissue,nerve sheaths, rod and cone cells of the eyes and the DNA.> > > > "The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest> > patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause and> > prevention

of disease." Thomas Edison> > "Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are> > right." Henry Ford> > "Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its> > strength." Corrie Ten Boom> > "Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen> > and thinking what no one else has thought." Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi,> Nobel> > Prize for Medicine 1937 > > > > http://mbsre- set.com > > http://environotics .com > > http://beeassist. com > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > Kelly W..> > <kellykebby>> >

> > Thu, January 7, 2010 12:05:04 PM> > vegan> > > > > > Oh my goodness those meals sound so healthy and tasty. I hope to put> recipes on soon esp. of different salsas like mango salsa, etc. It is difficult> to unlearn 40 years of eating, isn't it. My daughter is now a vegan. She has> more courage than me I think. Any vegans here? Please send your advice. Thanks,> Kel> >>

January 9, 2010

yes, that is true too. I know a lot of men who consider meat to be the focal point of the meal and then they eat so much of it that eventually it becomes hard on them too and shows such signs. I'm just a real 'moderation' type person. I've found that real strict diets usually are incomplete such as that diet that had people eating bacon and all that stuff and not vegatables. That was terrible and I'm sure it made a lot of people sick. I think that was the 'Atkins diet' wasn't it?

"ameliagerlach" <ameliagerlach Sent: Fri, 8 January, 2010 16:55:23RE: Re: vegan

Iâ€™ve seen plenty of meat-eaters who look terrible too! Overweight, bloated, etc.

[natural_ healing-] On Behalf Of lynnzyFriday, January 08, 2010 4:32 PM Re: Re: vegan

I have noticed what you are talking about..... the sitting in the health food store cafe.... and looking around. If I didn't know better, I would say that we lived in the same city. I see the vegans too and they are most often pale, they have dark under their eyes and the worst thing is that they have no muscle tone anymore. The roundness and plumpness of the muscles is all gone along the colour in their skin, the shine in their hair and often the hair looks thinned too. I see that too. They almost look like they have the bodies of the alcoholics in that their muscles are long and thin with no form anymore, but they don't have the wrinkles that the alcohoics have though. I mention 'alcoholics' because a few years ago I moved to the Polish/Irish/ German part of town in my city where the heavy drinkers have historically lived and I see that body type

now that I've moved away from the artsy/ progressive area of my city ( can't afford that area anymore). I see that there is not much difference in their bodies where the muscle is concerned, but the vegans have slimmer waists and less wrinkles. They look a healthier of course than the alcoholics, but they are still quite frail looking. I do know the 'look'... I know what you mean.

Wil Spencer <wilspencer@rocketma il.com> Fri, 8 January, 2010 14:26:39Re: Re: vegan

I know the Gerson Tharopy well. I have had several relative that have got rid of cancer that way. In my opinion, eating just a vegan/veggi diet is basically inducing a fast. When you put into the body what it can not be nourished with the body has to use its energy reserves to process. In the process of digesting the food that you get no or very little nourishment from the body consumes its own reserves to process the food. This in my mind is like fasting. So the body will consume the toxins first to in an attempt to survive. Then the cellulite and finally the soft tissue and the connective tissue. This is, in almost every case, what I have dealt with in the clinic with vegan/veggi diet minded people. Just go to a vegetarian/health food market or cafe' and sit and observe, like I have done for hundreds of hours. The body, if you know what to look for,

will tell you what is missing in the diet with just observing. I have done this in an attempt to disprove the theory of, vegan/veggi as a good choice to health, which it is not.I would agree that animal protein in the general market is toxic and should not be eaten by any human. Just watch the movie "Food Inc.". But on a biological and electrical view of our body, we need to consume animal or fish protein to have vibrant health. I have spent years researching this very topic. You really need to look at who is behind the science studies. It is the pharmacutical and big agriculture. These studies are not carried out for our own benefit to human health, they are advanced marketing tools for big industry. One of my former clients and friend Dr. Michael Steffy of Queens University, a 40 year educator of Anthropology, has brought this interesting fact to my awareness. He has always stated, "just

follow the money, you will find out the root idea of the study".Lets look at history for a moment. My father told me, the diet we see today that is concidered healthy was the diet in 1928 the government fed to the poor people on welfare, orphanages and in the prisons. Just look at who is behind the food pyramid you see today, it says United States Dept.. of Agriculture, just like the food pyramid of 1928. Does not say anything about a health dept! USDA of today is about big business and big business only! Wil Spencer VMSP, Naturopath, author, researcherVibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working with the body's electrical system which consists of all muscles, connective tissue,nerve sheaths, rod and cone cells of the eyes and the DNA."The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the

cause and prevention of disease." Thomas Edison"Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right." Henry Ford"Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its strength." Corrie Ten Boom"Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought." Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel Prize for Medicine 1937 http://mbsre- set.com http://environotics .

com http://beeassist. com

"ameliagerlach@ hotsheet. com" <ameliagerlach@ hotsheet. com> Fri, January 8, 2010 11:26:12 AMRE: Re: vegan

I totally agree with Vicki. Look at what the Gerson Therapy has done for so many people with cancer, healing them in spite of their grim prognostics, by using a vegan diet.

Amelia

[natural_ healing-] On Behalf Of ohlyvickiFriday, January 08, 2010 11:22 AM Re: vegan

OMG, I can't believe what I am reading here......According to all the new studies coming out a plant based diet is the only healthy way to eat. You have to educate yourself and eat the right things ... Please read The China Study or Anti Cancer.... Meat is not healthy for us or dairy. sugar and processed foods.... A diet with fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, and legumes is healing and healthy..... You can get ALL the protien and amino acids you need from a vegan diet. For me it is not a moral choice , I wish to continue to live.....Please educate yourselves.. ..... Regards, Vicki , Wil Spencer <wilspencer@. ..> wrote:>> Generally low blood counts are related to the body's ability to convert the amino acids and minerals into life

force.> Eating a diet high of insoluble fiber, which is virtually void of life force to any human leads to severe depletions. The main one in females is a hormone imbalance.> On a moral view I can agree it is an individual choice, but on a biological and electrical view of the body is a slow death sentence.> I speak from the view of a health care provider. In my clinic I have seen time and time again, how the moral choice of vegan/veggy mines the body of vital minerals and amino acid stores. I would beg you to do your research! I have seen so many people killing themselves because of the lack of knowledge of how the body works biologically and electrically, and I was one of them 16 years ago.> > Wil Spencer VMSP, Naturopath, author, researcher> Vibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working with the body's electrical system which consists of all muscles, connective tissue,nerve sheaths, rod and cone cells of

the eyes and the DNA.> > "The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause and prevention of disease." Thomas Edison> "Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right." Henry Ford> "Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its strength." Corrie Ten Boom> "Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought." Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel Prize for Medicine 1937 > > http://mbsre- set.com > http://environotics .com > http://beeassist. com > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __>

"ameliagerlach@ ..." <ameliagerlach@ ...>> > Thu, January 7, 2010 12:31:45 PM> RE: vegan> > > I think itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s an individual choice, in the sense that every> person responds differently, depending on their body. I do find that meat> stimulates autoimmunity in my body, but like I mentioned, I need a little to> keep my blood counts up.> Amelia> > > natural_ healing- > [natural_ healing-] On Behalf Of Wil Spencer> Thursday, January 07, 2010 12:29 PM> > Re: vegan> > > I was a vegan for 3

years> until my body started to fall apart. Which lead me down a very passionate> path on how the body works. My body took over 6 years to recover from a> three and a half year vegan life style. > Vegan/vegetarian life style is a moral choice not a biologically sound diet> choice.> > Wil Spencer VMSP,> Naturopath, author, researcher> Vibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working> with the body's electrical system which consists of all muscles, connective> tissue,nerve sheaths, rod and cone cells of the eyes and the DNA.> > "The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest> patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause and> prevention of disease." Thomas Edison> "Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are> right." Henry Ford> "Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It

empties today of its> strength." Corrie Ten Boom> "Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen> and thinking what no one else has thought." Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel> Prize for Medicine 1937 > > http://mbsre- set.com > http://environotics .com > http://beeassist. com > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Kelly W..> <kellykebby >> > Thu, January 7, 2010 12:05:04 PM> vegan> > > Oh my goodness those meals sound so healthy and tasty. I hope to put recipes on soon esp. of different salsas like mango salsa, etc. It is

difficult to unlearn 40 years of eating, isn't it. My daughter is now a vegan. She has more courage than me I think. Any vegans here? Please send your advice. Thanks, Kel>

January 9, 2010

Years ago, I don't remember exactly when but I was alive. They found a fossil of a homo sapien man that had apparently flash froze, ice ages will do that but that is another story. That guy was wearing furs and had a longbow and arrows in his possession. He was a hunter and we were hunter gatherers and ate meat as well as plants. A couple of guys named Buddy Stamper and Jim Ploen got a hold of the design and started making custom longbows. The company was sold to a Milt Calloway and I bought one of those bows. It was a nice shooter. The point is, in a world full of animals why would we not eat meat?We did not eat beans because they contain cyanides and must be soaked and cooked before eaten to remove the cyanides. That would be tough to do without a pot. We also did not eat wheat because at the time it had a hard shell and fell off the stalk and was unharvestable. 10,000 yrs ago we figured out how to genetically engineer wheat so it developed a soft shell and would stay on the stalk for harvesting. To this day in order for us to digest grains it must be processed and cooked, you can't eat it raw. We only ate fruits in the fall when they were ripe, the sugar helped us gain some weight for winter when plants became scarce. During the winter we primarily hunted. We needed the fur to stay warm to boot. We did not eat potatoes because they also contain poisonous chemicals. Over the yrs with genetic engineering we have slowly got these levels down, but still, I would never eat them raw IF I ate one.If you look at animals that eat primarily plants they have huge digestive systems because they have to eat constantly to get any nutrition. If you stood an ape up and put it side by side with a human you would see the waist and midsection of an ape is much larger than a human. That is so they can digest all these plant foods and get enough nutrients to survive. They will if they can, kill and eat small animals. We on the other hand have a narrow midsection and a digestive system like a wolf designed to eat meat. Wolves and dogs though can eat anything but have no carbohydrate requirement. In my opinion and what I have seen with my clients, the best diet includes meats and especially good fats. When you consider that the cell wall is 40% fat, in order to make new cells on a constant basis to replace the cells that die, you must have those fats in your diet. A plant diet alone cannot provide that. Without those fats the cells have hard walls and do not intake nutrients and dispose of wastes like they are supposed to. The rest of the cell wall is basically proteins and some of those proteins cannot be found in plants.Just food for thought From: kellykebbyDate: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:56:52 -0800RE: Re: vegan

Well, in the beginning they used to use raw calf liver in the Gerson Therapy. But this was removed and the therapy does continue to help people with all sorts of diseases. It seems to me that we just have to be foragers and this means vegetation, sometimes eggs, etc. Much of this dis-ease is from bowel disbiosis because we have to clean the good bacteria off the veggies. I think meat was made to eat only in emergencies. I can't come at this from an experienced perspective yet though. My daughter, as I said, is doing the vegan diet for health and moral reasons. I'll let you know how it goes for her. She was starting out with LOW iron anyway so I hope she doesn't get sick. Thank you everyone for posting. I need to hear everyone's experiences and viewpoints. Kel

>

Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.

January 9, 2010

You can get all the protein you need from nuts, grains, legumes etc. Good books

that I know of are what was mentioned below. The China Study, also Anti Cancer

though not vegan he understands the importance of all the other foods our great

earth gives us and the need to consume mainly non animal foods and animal food

in small amount .

Don't be fooled by soy either it is one of the most geneticly motified foods and

is highly processed and is not a good source of protein. If you are interested

in your health and just don't want to call a Dr. to give you a pill to fix

yourself than you need to research and find what works for you. Never listen to

what the T.V. is telling you . It is run by big business and the truth is not

their goal. All you need are your fingers and start googling to begin to

discover the truth about our food.

A great vegan info site is

http://www.vegparadise.com/protein.html

Also for great recipes go to Veganchef.com YUM !!!!!

V

, Dene Mayeaux <munkymoo wrote:

>

> Could you recommend any good books to read on this? I'm a protein person &

> need to know what has a lot of protein.

>

> ~Dene

>

> [image:

>

?ui=2 & view=att & th=1260eeb4228bdd13 & attid=0.1 & disp=attd & realattid=ii_1260eeb4228b\

dd13 & zw]

>

> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 10:21 AM, ohlyvicki <as-above wrote:

>

> > OMG, I can't believe what I am reading here.....According to all the new

> > studies coming out a plant based diet is the only healthy way to eat. You

> > have to educate yourself and eat the right things ... Please read The China

> > Study or Anti Cancer.... Meat is not healthy for us or dairy. sugar and

> > processed foods... A diet with fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, and

> > legumes is healing and healthy.....You can get ALL the protien and amino

> > acids you need from a vegan diet. For me it is not a moral choice , I wish

> > to continue to live.....

> > Please educate yourselves.......

> > Regards, Vicki

> >

> > , Wil Spencer <wilspencer@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Generally low blood counts are related to the body's ability to convert

> > the amino acids and minerals into life force.

> > > Eating a diet high of insoluble fiber, which is virtually void of life

> > force to any human leads to severe depletions. The main one in females is a

> > hormone imbalance.

> > > On a moral view I can agree it is an individual choice, but on a

> > biological and electrical view of the body is a slow death sentence.

> > > I speak from the view of a health care provider. In my clinic I have

> > seen time and time again, how the moral choice of vegan/veggy mines the

> > body of vital minerals and amino acid stores. I would beg you to do your

> > research! I have seen so many people killing themselves because of the lack

> > of knowledge of how the body works biologically and electrically, and I was

> > one of them 16 years ago.

> > >

> > > Wil Spencer VMSP, Naturopath, author, researcher

> > > Vibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working with the body's

> > electrical system which consists of all muscles, connective tissue,nerve

> > sheaths, rod and cone cells of the eyes and the DNA.

> > >

> > > " The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest

> > patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause and

> > prevention of disease. " Thomas Edison

> > > " Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right. " Henry

> > Ford

> > > " Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its

> > strength. " Corrie Ten Boom

> > > " Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking

> > what no one else has thought. " Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel Prize for

> > Medicine 1937

> > >

> > > http://mbsre-set.com

> > > http://environotics.com

> > > http://beeassist.com

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > " ameliagerlach@ " <ameliagerlach@>

> > >

> > > Thu, January 7, 2010 12:31:45 PM

> > > RE: vegan

> > >

> > > I think itâ€™s an individual choice, in the sense that every

> > > person responds differently, depending on their body. I do find that meat

> > > stimulates autoimmunity in my body, but like I mentioned, I need a little

> > to

> > > keep my blood counts up.

> > > Amelia

> > >

> > > [natural_ healing-] On Behalf Of Wil Spencer

> > > Thursday, January 07, 2010 12:29 PM

> > >

> > > Re: vegan

> > >

> > > I was a vegan for 3 years

> > > until my body started to fall apart. Which lead me down a very

> > passionate

> > > path on how the body works. My body took over 6 years to recover from a

> > > three and a half year vegan life style.

> > > Vegan/vegetarian life style is a moral choice not a biologically sound

> > diet

> > > choice.

> > >

> > > Wil Spencer VMSP,

> > > Naturopath, author, researcher

> > > Vibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working

> > > with the body's electrical system which consists of all muscles,

> > connective

> > > tissue,nerve sheaths, rod and cone cells of the eyes and the DNA.

> > >

> > > " The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest

> > > patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause and

> > > prevention of disease. " Thomas Edison

> > > " Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are

> > > right. " Henry Ford

> > > " Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its

> > > strength. " Corrie Ten Boom

> > > " Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen

> > > and thinking what no one else has thought. " Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi,

> > Nobel

> > > Prize for Medicine 1937

> > >

> > > http://mbsre- set.com

> > > http://environotics .com

> > > http://beeassist. com

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > >

> > > Kelly W..

> > > <kellykebby >

> > >

> > > Thu, January 7, 2010 12:05:04 PM

> > > vegan

> > >

> > > Oh my goodness those meals sound so healthy and tasty. I hope to put

> > recipes on soon esp. of different salsas like mango salsa, etc. It is

> > difficult to unlearn 40 years of eating, isn't it. My daughter is now a

> > vegan. She has more courage than me I think. Any vegans here? Please send

> > your advice. Thanks, Kel

> > >

> >

> > ---

> >

January 9, 2010

I totally agree with Lynn except one thing I noticed she left out is FISH. I believe it is one of the best things you can do is to eat a good clean fish like talipia. The problem with commercial grown chickens is that they have made them so hybrid so they can grow them off fast. From hatch to slaughter is only about 6 weeks now. I think this has altered the genetic makeup of them and they are not good for you. Always buy Free Range chickens and beef.

Brenda

January 9, 2010

I believe that if we would fast one day a week and a longer fast once a year, it would give our bodies a chance to catch up we would all be more healthy. I think fasing is a very important overlooked factor in our health.

Brenda

January 9, 2010

I think the overweight, bloated thing is probably because of the carbs, not the meat.

--- On Fri, 1/8/10, ameliagerlach <ameliagerlach wrote:

ameliagerlach <ameliagerlachRE: Re: vegan Date: Friday, January 8, 2010, 4:55 PM

Iâ€™ve seen plenty of meat-eaters who look terrible too! Overweight, bloated, etc.

[natural_ healing-] On Behalf Of lynnzyFriday, January 08, 2010 4:32 PM Re: Re: vegan

I have noticed what you are talking about..... the sitting in the health food store cafe.... and looking around. If I didn't know better, I would say that we lived in the same city. I see the vegans too and they are most often pale, they have dark under their eyes and the worst thing is that they have no muscle tone anymore. The roundness and plumpness of the muscles is all gone along the colour in their skin, the shine in their hair and often the hair looks thinned too. I see that too. They almost look like they have the bodies of the alcoholics in that their muscles are long and thin with no form anymore, but they don't have the wrinkles that the alcohoics have though. I mention 'alcoholics' because a few years ago I moved to the Polish/Irish/ German part of town in my city where the heavy drinkers have historically lived and I see that body type

now that I've moved away from the artsy/ progressive area of my city ( can't afford that area anymore). I see that there is not much difference in their bodies where the muscle is concerned, but the vegans have slimmer waists and less wrinkles. They look a healthier of course than the alcoholics, but they are still quite frail looking. I do know the 'look'... I know what you mean.

Wil Spencer <wilspencer@rocketma il.com> Fri, 8 January, 2010 14:26:39Re: Re: vegan

I know the Gerson Tharopy well. I have had several relative that have got rid of cancer that way. In my opinion, eating just a vegan/veggi diet is basically inducing a fast. When you put into the body what it can not be nourished with the body has to use its energy reserves to process. In the process of digesting the food that you get no or very little nourishment from the body consumes its own reserves to process the food. This in my mind is like fasting. So the body will consume the toxins first to in an attempt to survive. Then the cellulite and finally the soft tissue and the connective tissue. This is, in almost every case, what I have dealt with in the clinic with vegan/veggi diet minded people. Just go to a vegetarian/health food market or cafe' and sit and observe, like I have done for hundreds of hours. The body, if you know what to look for,

will tell you what is missing in the diet with just observing. I have done this in an attempt to disprove the theory of, vegan/veggi as a good choice to health, which it is not.I would agree that animal protein in the general market is toxic and should not be eaten by any human. Just watch the movie "Food Inc.". But on a biological and electrical view of our body, we need to consume animal or fish protein to have vibrant health. I have spent years researching this very topic. You really need to look at who is behind the science studies. It is the pharmacutical and big agriculture. These studies are not carried out for our own benefit to human health, they are advanced marketing tools for big industry. One of my former clients and friend Dr. Michael Steffy of Queens University, a 40 year educator of Anthropology, has brought this interesting fact to my awareness. He has always stated, "just

follow the money, you will find out the root idea of the study".Lets look at history for a moment. My father told me, the diet we see today that is concidered healthy was the diet in 1928 the government fed to the poor people on welfare, orphanages and in the prisons. Just look at who is behind the food pyramid you see today, it says United States Dept. of Agriculture, just like the food pyramid of 1928. Does not say anything about a health dept! USDA of today is about big business and big business only! Wil Spencer VMSP, Naturopath, author, researcherVibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working with the body's electrical system which consists of all muscles, connective tissue,nerve sheaths, rod and cone cells of the eyes and the DNA."The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the

cause and prevention of disease." Thomas Edison"Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right." Henry Ford"Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its strength." Corrie Ten Boom"Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought." Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel Prize for Medicine 1937 http://mbsre- set.com http://environotics .

com http://beeassist. com

"ameliagerlach@ hotsheet. com" <ameliagerlach@ hotsheet. com> Fri, January 8, 2010 11:26:12 AMRE: Re: vegan

I totally agree with Vicki. Look at what the Gerson Therapy has done for so many people with cancer, healing them in spite of their grim prognostics, by using a vegan diet.

Amelia

[natural_ healing-] On Behalf Of ohlyvickiFriday, January 08, 2010 11:22 AM Re: vegan

OMG, I can't believe what I am reading here.....According to all the new studies coming out a plant based diet is the only healthy way to eat. You have to educate yourself and eat the right things ... Please read The China Study or Anti Cancer.... Meat is not healthy for us or dairy. sugar and processed foods.... A diet with fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, and legumes is healing and healthy..... You can get ALL the protien and amino acids you need from a vegan diet. For me it is not a moral choice , I wish to continue to live.....Please educate yourselves.. ..... Regards, Vicki , Wil Spencer <wilspencer@. ..> wrote:>> Generally low blood counts are related to the body's ability to convert the

amino acids and minerals into life force.> Eating a diet high of insoluble fiber, which is virtually void of life force to any human leads to severe depletions. The main one in females is a hormone imbalance.> On a moral view I can agree it is an individual choice, but on a biological and electrical view of the body is a slow death sentence.> I speak from the view of a health care provider. In my clinic I have seen time and time again, how the moral choice of vegan/veggy mines the body of vital minerals and amino acid stores. I would beg you to do your research! I have seen so many people killing themselves because of the lack of knowledge of how the body works biologically and electrically, and I was one of them 16 years ago.> > Wil Spencer VMSP, Naturopath, author, researcher> Vibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working with the body's electrical system which consists of all muscles, connective

tissue,nerve sheaths, rod and cone cells of the eyes and the DNA.> > "The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause and prevention of disease." Thomas Edison> "Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right." Henry Ford> "Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its strength." Corrie Ten Boom> "Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought." Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel Prize for Medicine 1937 > > http://mbsre- set.com > http://environotics .com > http://beeassist. com > > > > > >

____________ _________ _________ __> "ameliagerlach@ ..." <ameliagerlach@ ...>> > Thu, January 7, 2010 12:31:45 PM> RE: vegan> > > I think itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s an individual choice, in the sense that every> person responds differently, depending on their body. I do find that meat> stimulates autoimmunity in my body, but like I mentioned, I need a little to> keep my blood counts up.> Amelia> > > natural_ healing- > [natural_ healing-] On Behalf Of Wil Spencer> Thursday, January 07, 2010 12:29 PM> @.

com> Re: vegan> > > I was a vegan for 3 years> until my body started to fall apart. Which lead me down a very passionate> path on how the body works. My body took over 6 years to recover from a> three and a half year vegan life style. > Vegan/vegetarian life style is a moral choice not a biologically sound diet> choice.> > Wil Spencer VMSP,> Naturopath, author, researcher> Vibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working> with the body's electrical system which consists of all muscles, connective> tissue,nerve sheaths, rod and cone cells of the eyes and the DNA.> > "The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest> patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause and> prevention of disease." Thomas Edison> "Whether you believe you can do a thing or

not, you are> right." Henry Ford> "Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its> strength." Corrie Ten Boom> "Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen> and thinking what no one else has thought." Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel> Prize for Medicine 1937 > > http://mbsre- set.com > http://environotics .com > http://beeassist. com > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Kelly W..> <kellykebby >> > Thu, January 7, 2010 12:05:04 PM> vegan> > > Oh my goodness those meals sound so healthy and

tasty. I hope to put recipes on soon esp. of different salsas like mango salsa, etc. It is difficult to unlearn 40 years of eating, isn't it. My daughter is now a vegan. She has more courage than me I think. Any vegans here? Please send your advice. Thanks, Kel>

January 9, 2010

I don't mention fish much because it's too expensive here where I live. I know though that a lot of people in the US are able to buy reasonably priced fish, but we don't really have that option until February when all the places bring in all the sea food for the Catholics who don't eat meat on Friday during lent. It's become the culture of the city at this point though but it started with the Catholic religion during lent. Come the middle of February fish will be available to buy including scallops and whatever else you can think of. If fish is on sale for half price or buy one get one free, then I buy it. Other than that, a small piece of salmon that is marinated might be about $6.00 for a one serving size piece. If I can get two for that price, then I will get it. I had a neighbour that was from Florida and she was used to being able to buy fish and bring it home and cook it and be able to afford it, but here it's crazy. Who can pay

$15.00 a pound on average at the fish counter? We used to be able to eat the fish from the Great Lakes, but no more. That's too full of mercury they say, though there are people who still eat the fish. I really don't know if I should though and Robert Kennedy Jr had a whole show on those fish in the Great Lakes on the radio, so I guess maybe there is some truth there. What a shame that factories have ruined the fish.

Brenda Bell <bellfas Sent: Fri, 8 January, 2010 18:56:31Re: Re: vegan

I totally agree with Lynn except one thing I noticed she left out is FISH. I believe it is one of the best things you can do is to eat a good clean fish like talipia. The problem with commercial grown chickens is that they have made them so hybrid so they can grow them off fast. From hatch to slaughter is only about 6 weeks now. I think this has altered the genetic makeup of them and they are not good for you. Always buy Free Range chickens and beef.

Brenda

January 9, 2010

HI Lynn, I think I am where you are, fill up on the veggies but I feel I still need a little meat. Welcome to the group! Kel

January 9, 2010

ï»¿

I buy frozen talipia at Wal Mart. Frozen filets are about 16 in a box for 12.00. It is farm raised and I understnd that is not the best but it is the only thing we have .

Brenda

-

lynnzy

Friday, January 08, 2010 9:12 PM

Re: Re: vegan

I don't mention fish much because it's too expensive here where I live. I know though that a lot of people in the US are able to buy reasonably priced fish, but we don't really have that option until February when all the places bring in all the sea food for the Catholics who don't eat meat on Friday during lent. It's become the culture of the city at this point though but it started with the Catholic religion during lent. Come the middle of February fish will be available to buy including scallops and whatever else you can think of. If fish is on sale for half price or buy one get one free, then I buy it. Other than that, a small piece of salmon that is marinated might be about $6.00 for a one serving size piece. If I can get two for that price, then I will get it. I had a neighbour that was from Florida and she was used to being able to buy fish and bring it home and cook it and be able to afford it, but here it's crazy. Who can pay $15.00 a pound on average at the fish counter? We used to be able to eat the fish from the Great Lakes, but no more. That's too full of mercury they say, though there are people who still eat the fish. I really don't know if I should though and Robert Kennedy Jr had a whole show on those fish in the Great Lakes on the radio, so I guess maybe there is some truth there. What a shame that factories have ruined the fish.

Brenda Bell <bellfas (AT) blomand (DOT) net> Sent: Fri, 8 January, 2010 18:56:31Re: Re: vegan

I totally agree with Lynn except one thing I noticed she left out is FISH. I believe it is one of the best things you can do is to eat a good clean fish like talipia. The problem with commercial grown chickens is that they have made them so hybrid so they can grow them off fast. From hatch to slaughter is only about 6 weeks now. I think this has altered the genetic makeup of them and they are not good for you. Always buy Free Range chickens and beef.

Brenda

January 9, 2010

That 'Vegetarians in Paradise' is a great website.

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 5:52 PM, ohlyvicki <as-above wrote:

You can get all the protein you need from nuts, grains, legumes etc. Good books that I know of are what was mentioned below. The China Study, also Anti Cancer though not vegan he understands the importance of all the other foods our great earth gives us and the need to consume mainly non animal foods and animal food in small amount .

Don't be fooled by soy either it is one of the most geneticly motified foods and is highly processed and is not a good source of protein. If you are interested in your health and just don't want to call a Dr. to give you a pill to fix yourself than you need to research and find what works for you. Never listen to what the T.V. is telling you . It is run by big business and the truth is not their goal. All you need are your fingers and start googling to begin to discover the truth about our food.

A great vegan info site is

http://www.vegparadise.com/protein.html

Also for great recipes go to Veganchef.com YUM !!!!!

V

, Dene Mayeaux <munkymoo wrote:

>

> Could you recommend any good books to read on this? I'm a protein person &

> need to know what has a lot of protein.

>

> ~Dene

>

> [image:

> ?ui=2 & view=att & th=1260eeb4228bdd13 & attid=0.1 & disp=attd & realattid=ii_1260eeb4228bdd13 & zw]

>

> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 10:21 AM, ohlyvicki <as-above wrote:

>

> > OMG, I can't believe what I am reading here.....According to all the new

> > studies coming out a plant based diet is the only healthy way to eat. You

> > have to educate yourself and eat the right things ... Please read The China

> > Study or Anti Cancer.... Meat is not healthy for us or dairy. sugar and

> > processed foods... A diet with fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, and

> > legumes is healing and healthy.....You can get ALL the protien and amino

> > acids you need from a vegan diet. For me it is not a moral choice , I wish

> > to continue to live.....

> > Please educate yourselves.......

> > Regards, Vicki

> >

> > , Wil Spencer <wilspencer@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Generally low blood counts are related to the body's ability to convert

> > the amino acids and minerals into life force.

> > > Eating a diet high of insoluble fiber, which is virtually void of life

> > force to any human leads to severe depletions. The main one in females is a

> > hormone imbalance.

> > > On a moral view I can agree it is an individual choice, but on a

> > biological and electrical view of the body is a slow death sentence.

> > > I speak from the view of a health care provider. In my clinic I have

> > seen time and time again, how the moral choice of vegan/veggy mines the

> > body of vital minerals and amino acid stores. I would beg you to do your

> > research! I have seen so many people killing themselves because of the lack

> > of knowledge of how the body works biologically and electrically, and I was

> > one of them 16 years ago.

> > >

> > > Wil Spencer VMSP, Naturopath, author, researcher

> > > Vibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working with the body's

> > electrical system which consists of all muscles, connective tissue,nerve

> > sheaths, rod and cone cells of the eyes and the DNA.

> > >

> > > " The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest

> > patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause and

> > prevention of disease. " Thomas Edison

> > > " Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right. " Henry

> > Ford

> > > " Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its

> > strength. " Corrie Ten Boom

> > > " Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking

> > what no one else has thought. " Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel Prize for

> > Medicine 1937

> > >

> > > http://mbsre-set.com

> > > http://environotics.com

> > > http://beeassist.com

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > " ameliagerlach@ " <ameliagerlach@>

> > >

> > > Thu, January 7, 2010 12:31:45 PM

> > > RE: vegan

> > >

> > > I think itâ€™s an individual choice, in the sense that every

> > > person responds differently, depending on their body. I do find that meat

> > > stimulates autoimmunity in my body, but like I mentioned, I need a little

> > to

> > > keep my blood counts up.

> > > Amelia

> > >

> > > [natural_ healing-] On Behalf Of Wil Spencer

> > > Thursday, January 07, 2010 12:29 PM

> > >

> > > Re: vegan

> > >

> > > I was a vegan for 3 years

> > > until my body started to fall apart. Which lead me down a very

> > passionate

> > > path on how the body works. My body took over 6 years to recover from a

> > > three and a half year vegan life style.

> > > Vegan/vegetarian life style is a moral choice not a biologically sound

> > diet

> > > choice.

> > >

> > > Wil Spencer VMSP,

> > > Naturopath, author, researcher

> > > Vibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working

> > > with the body's electrical system which consists of all muscles,

> > connective

> > > tissue,nerve sheaths, rod and cone cells of the eyes and the DNA.

> > >

> > > " The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest

> > > patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause and

> > > prevention of disease. " Thomas Edison

> > > " Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are

> > > right. " Henry Ford

> > > " Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its

> > > strength. " Corrie Ten Boom

> > > " Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen

> > > and thinking what no one else has thought. " Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi,

> > Nobel

> > > Prize for Medicine 1937

> > >

> > > http://mbsre- set.com

> > > http://environotics .com

> > > http://beeassist. com

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > >

> > > Kelly W..

> > > <kellykebby >

> > >

> > > Thu, January 7, 2010 12:05:04 PM

> > > vegan

> > >

> > > Oh my goodness those meals sound so healthy and tasty. I hope to put

> > recipes on soon esp. of different salsas like mango salsa, etc. It is

> > difficult to unlearn 40 years of eating, isn't it. My daughter is now a

> > vegan. She has more courage than me I think. Any vegans here? Please send

> > your advice. Thanks, Kel

> > >

> >

> > ---

> >

January 9, 2010

Brenda, that is interesting to me cause I just started reading this book that I bought yesterday called the 'Alternate-Day Diet' by James B. Johnson, M.D., and it claims to alleviate or eliminate symptoms of asthma, allergies, arthritis, colds, infections and periodontal disease. And at the cellular level, it activates SIRT1 that may reduce free-radical damage, a major cause of most chronic disease. Has anyone heard of this book? It's fasting or eating low calories (500 calories) one day and the next eat what you want. Of course eat healthy foods on that day.

~DeneOn Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Brenda Bell <bellfas wrote:

I believe that if we would fast one day a week and a longer fast once a year, it would give our bodies a chance to catch up we would all be more healthy. I think fasing is a very important overlooked factor in our health.

Brenda

January 9, 2010

No, I have not heard of the book. I usually eat supper on Sunday night and then I have nothing but water until Tuesday morning breakfast. It is hard to do at first but it is amazing how much better you feel. It also helps control weight if you have a tendency to gain.

Brenda

January 9, 2010

ï»¿

Farm raised seafood has LOTS of Toxins and some of the seafood that comes from China is horrible. If you are not sick, farm raised on chemicals is sure to cause medical problems. Think twice prior to eating farm raised!

Marilyn

-

Brenda Bell

Friday, January 08, 2010 8:48 PM

Re: Re: vegan

ï»¿ I buy frozen talipia at Wal Mart. Frozen filets are about 16 in a box for 12.00. It is farm raised and I understnd that is not the best but it is the only thing we have .

Brenda

-

lynnzy

Friday, January 08, 2010 9:12 PM

Re: Re: vegan

I don't mention fish much because it's too expensive here where I live. I know though that a lot of people in the US are able to buy reasonably priced fish, but we don't really have that option until February when all the places bring in all the sea food for the Catholics who don't eat meat on Friday during lent. It's become the culture of the city at this point though but it started with the Catholic religion during lent. Come the middle of February fish will be available to buy including scallops and whatever else you can think of. If fish is on sale for half price or buy one get one free, then I buy it. Other than that, a small piece of salmon that is marinated might be about $6.00 for a one serving size piece. If I can get two for that price, then I will get it. I had a neighbour that was from Florida and she was used to being able to buy fish and bring it home and cook it and be able to afford it, but here it's crazy. Who can pay $15.00 a pound on average at the fish counter? We used to be able to eat the fish from the Great Lakes, but no more. That's too full of mercury they say, though there are people who still eat the fish. I really don't know if I should though and Robert Kennedy Jr had a whole show on those fish in the Great Lakes on the radio, so I guess maybe there is some truth there. What a shame that factories have ruined the fish.

Brenda Bell <bellfas (AT) blomand (DOT) net> Sent: Fri, 8 January, 2010 18:56:31Re: Re: vegan

I totally agree with Lynn except one thing I noticed she left out is FISH. I believe it is one of the best things you can do is to eat a good clean fish like talipia. The problem with commercial grown chickens is that they have made them so hybrid so they can grow them off fast. From hatch to slaughter is only about 6 weeks now. I think this has altered the genetic makeup of them and they are not good for you. Always buy Free Range chickens and beef.

Brenda

January 9, 2010

I'm on the fence about this issue myself, but I did find this cute &

thought-provoking video on youtube a while ago...

, Dan <cavemandan30 wrote:

>

> Years ago, I don't remember exactly when but I was alive. They found a fossil

of a homo sapien man that had apparently flash froze, ice ages will do that but

that is another story. That guy was wearing furs and had a longbow and arrows in

his possession. He was a hunter and we were hunter gatherers and ate meat as

well as plants. A couple of guys named Buddy Stamper and Jim Ploen got a hold of

the design and started making custom longbows. The company was sold to a Milt

Calloway and I bought one of those bows. It was a nice shooter. The point is, in

a world full of animals why would we not eat meat?

>

> We did not eat beans because they contain cyanides and must be soaked and

cooked before eaten to remove the cyanides. That would be tough to do without a

pot. We also did not eat wheat because at the time it had a hard shell and fell

off the stalk and was unharvestable. 10,000 yrs ago we figured out how to

genetically engineer wheat so it developed a soft shell and would stay on the

stalk for harvesting. To this day in order for us to digest grains it must be

processed and cooked, you can't eat it raw. We only ate fruits in the fall when

they were ripe, the sugar helped us gain some weight for winter when plants

became scarce. During the winter we primarily hunted. We needed the fur to stay

warm to boot. We did not eat potatoes because they also contain poisonous

chemicals. Over the yrs with genetic engineering we have slowly got these levels

down, but still, I would never eat them raw IF I ate one.

>

> If you look at animals that eat primarily plants they have huge digestive

systems because they have to eat constantly to get any nutrition. If you stood

an ape up and put it side by side with a human you would see the waist and

midsection of an ape is much larger than a human. That is so they can digest all

these plant foods and get enough nutrients to survive. They will if they can,

kill and eat small animals. We on the other hand have a narrow midsection and a

digestive system like a wolf designed to eat meat. Wolves and dogs though can

eat anything but have no carbohydrate requirement.

>

> In my opinion and what I have seen with my clients, the best diet includes

meats and especially good fats. When you consider that the cell wall is 40% fat,

in order to make new cells on a constant basis to replace the cells that die,

you must have those fats in your diet. A plant diet alone cannot provide that.

Without those fats the cells have hard walls and do not intake nutrients and

dispose of wastes like they are supposed to. The rest of the cell wall is

basically proteins and some of those proteins cannot be found in plants.

>

> Just food for thought

>

> kellykebby

> Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:56:52 -0800

> RE: Re: vegan

>

Well, in the beginning they used to use raw calf liver in the Gerson

Therapy. But this was removed and the therapy does continue to help people with

all sorts of diseases. It seems to me that we just have to be foragers and this

means vegetation, sometimes eggs, etc. Much of this dis-ease is from bowel

disbiosis because we have to clean the good bacteria off the veggies. I think

meat was made to eat only in emergencies. I can't come at this from an

experienced perspective yet though. My daughter, as I said, is doing the vegan

diet for health and moral reasons. I'll let you know how it goes for her. She

was starting out with LOW iron anyway so I hope she doesn't get sick. Thank you

everyone for posting. I need to hear everyone's experiences and viewpoints. Kel

>

> >

>

_______________

> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.

> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390710/direct/01/

>

January 10, 2010

I agree 1000%, farm raised fish are evil. They are raised in their own waste. They are fed industrial waste like soy meal from geneticly modified plants and other waste products that are not the natural diet of fish. They are fed high concentrations of antibiotics and other chemicals to keep the bacterial and other pathogens under control. YUCK!! Wil Spencer VMSP, Naturopath, author, researcherVibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working with the body's electrical system which consists of all muscles, connective

tissue,nerve sheaths, rod and cone cells of the eyes and the DNA."The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause and prevention of disease." Thomas Edison"Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right." Henry Ford"Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its strength." Corrie Ten Boom"Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought." Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel Prize for Medicine 1937 http://mbsre-set.com http://environotics.com http://beeassist.com Marilyn Beaver <mbeav Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 2:16:01 PMRe: Re: vegan

ï»¿

Farm raised seafood has LOTS of Toxins and some of the seafood that comes from China is horrible. If you are not sick, farm raised on chemicals is sure to cause medical problems. Think twice prior to eating farm raised!

Marilyn

-

Brenda Bell

Friday, January 08, 2010 8:48 PM

Re: Re: vegan

ï»¿ I buy frozen talipia at Wal Mart. Frozen filets are about 16 in a box for 12.00. It is farm raised and I understnd that is not the best but it is the only thing we have .

Brenda

-

lynnzy

Friday, January 08, 2010 9:12 PM

Re: Re: vegan

I don't mention fish much because it's too expensive here where I live. I know though that a lot of people in the US are able to buy reasonably priced fish, but we don't really have that option until February when all the places bring in all the sea food for the Catholics who don't eat meat on Friday during lent. It's become the culture of the city at this point though but it started with the Catholic religion during lent. Come the middle of February fish will be available to buy including scallops and whatever else you can think of. If fish is on sale for half price or buy one get one free, then I buy it. Other than that, a small piece of salmon that is marinated might be about $6.00 for a one serving size piece. If I can get two for that price, then I will get it. I had a neighbour that was from Florida and she was used to being able to buy fish and bring it home and cook it and be able to afford it, but here it's crazy. Who can pay $15.00 a pound on average at the fish counter? We used to be able to eat the fish from the Great Lakes, but no more. That's too full of mercury they say, though there are people who still eat the fish. I really don't know if I should though and Robert Kennedy Jr had a whole show on those fish in the Great Lakes on the radio, so I guess maybe there is some truth there. What a shame that factories have ruined the fish.

Brenda Bell <bellfas (AT) blomand (DOT) net> Fri, 8 January, 2010 18:56:31Re: Re: vegan

I totally agree with Lynn except one thing I noticed she left out is FISH. I believe it is one of the best things you can do is to eat a good clean fish like talipia. The problem with commercial grown chickens is that they have made them so hybrid so they can grow them off fast. From hatch to slaughter is only about 6 weeks now. I think this has altered the genetic makeup of them and they are not good for you. Always buy Free Range chickens and beef.

Brenda

January 10, 2010

--- When we were hunters and gatherers we spent the summer and autume collecting

the foods we could and dried or preserved them for use in the winter these

included, seeds, roots, tubers, fruit and vegetables about 10,000 years ago we

discovered cooking and rice , beans and cereals were added meat and fish were a

small part of the human diet unless of course one lived in the frozen north. We

ate wild animals and excercised to hunt and get that meat. It was not raised in

unhealthy environments and pumped up with antibiotics and hormones . If you

study any culture that subsistes on mainly a plant based diet they are

healthiers and live longer than we westerners do. Check out the Mediterraine

diet. Look at the giant bellies of americans these giant bellies are not born of

processing plants they are giant because they consume huge amounts of meat and

unhealthy fats. Many none meat eating animals have small digestive systems it

all depends on what the animal is consuming. Please.....We are omnivores and

have evolved to eat everything. Meat is not suppose to be our only source of

protein. Don't get so defensive over your meat. Eat meat if you like but don't

fool people into thinking it is healthy and your only choice of protein.

The Budwig diet is helping thousands of folks with cancer it is based on mainly

vegetables with some fruits and a tiny bit of animal protein and of course

Flaxseed oil.For some info on ancient diets check out.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/11/061109-teeth-diet.html

And please people don't take what one person has to say do some research and

find what works for you, we are all different and need different things.

Health to all,Vicki

>

> , Dan <cavemandan30@> wrote:

> >

> > Years ago, I don't remember exactly when but I was alive. They found a

fossil of a homo sapien man that had apparently flash froze, ice ages will do

that but that is another story. That guy was wearing furs and had a longbow and

arrows in his possession. He was a hunter and we were hunter gatherers and ate

meat as well as plants. A couple of guys named Buddy Stamper and Jim Ploen got a

hold of the design and started making custom longbows. The company was sold to a

Milt Calloway and I bought one of those bows. It was a nice shooter. The point

is, in a world full of animals why would we not eat meat?

> >

> > We did not eat beans because they contain cyanides and must be soaked and