Acne

[Guest guest]

Eti does she have gall stones?

Alon

 

-

eti domb

Monday, January 28, 2002 10:18 AM

Acne

 

 

 

 

Hi All,

I would love some help with a case.

My patient is a 25 year old female with severe acne on her face, chronic painful constipation alternating with loose stools and pain in the upper shoulder Gb21 area, usually on Right side but sometimes on the left.

She is very skinny and small framed, under a lot of stress. History of 7 year pill use. Got the Acne 5 months ago when stopped the pill and the doctor put her on the pilland an antibiotic - Doxicycline. She refused Accutain.

5 years ago had mono for a month with no reccurances.

Tongue is dusky-purple and pale hue, coat on the back is burnt yellow and dry.

Pulse is choppy and weak. After treatment the pulses improved and were less choppy.

I want to treat her Acne herbally. I was wondering if anyone knows of a good formula or topical application for Acne.

Thanks for the input, Eti

 

 

 

 

 

Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click HereChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

Eti,

As Alon pointed out, the GB 21 pain shows a possible gall bladder

involvement.

 

What is her menses like now?

 

Really, a burnt yellow coat at the back? Does she smoke or drink

coffee? This points to large intestine heat.

 

What is the source of stress?

 

Is the acne dry, wet, oozing? Just on the face or the body as well?

 

Emotional depression? PMS?

 

Put all this together, then come up with a pattern diagnosis. You

cannot treat without it.

 

 

On Monday, January 28, 2002, at 10:18 AM, eti domb wrote:

 

>

>

> Hi All,

>

> I would love some help with a case.

>

> My patient is a 25 year old female with severe acne on her face,

> chronic painful constipation alternating with loose stools and pain in

> the upper shoulder Gb21 area, usually on Right side but sometimes on

> the left.

>

> She is very skinny and small framed, under a lot of stress. History of

> 7 year pill use.  Got the Acne 5 months ago when stopped the pill and

> the doctor put her on the pilland an antibiotic - Doxicycline.  She

> refused Accutain. 

>

> 5 years ago had mono for a month with no reccurances.

>

> Tongue is dusky-purple and pale hue, coat on the back is burnt yellow

> and dry.

>

> Pulse is choppy and weak.  After treatment the pulses improved and were

> less choppy.

>

> I want to treat her Acne herbally.  I was wondering if anyone knows of

> a good formula or topical application for Acne.

>

> Thanks for the input, Eti

>

>

>

>  

>

>

 

>

 

>

> Join the worldís largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here

>

 

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed

> healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate

> academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety

> of professional services, including board approved online continuing

> education.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Santorini,

There is anacardic acids in raw cashew nuts which is said to be

lethal to gram positive bacteria, which acne is. It might be worth a

try to put crushed raw cashews on the acne and see if it helps. You

may see some theory about the use of cashews for curing a tooth

abscess for which it works usually quite well at;

http://members.tripod.com/~charles_W/tooth.html

Sincerely, Charles Weber

[Guest guest]

Have you done a search in the message archives.. also when I was young, an old professor told my mom about brewers yeast.... it really cleared up the acne as a young adolescent.... but yuck they only had powder back then....LOL we had it in cereal, oj, etc.... but it worked.... if you come up with a blank in the messages, keep hitting the next key till something comes up.... also in the member recipes it says

 

Monica nunyabiz

SOME ACNE CURES

 

According to our members these are cures they have used with success.

 

 

Washing the face and other broken out places with grapefruit seed extract, doing spot touch-ups with tea tree oil, and taking olive leaf extract internally.

 

Tissue paper soaked with colloidal silver, laid over the affected areas, and kept moist by spraying or using droppers or whatever, for a while-the longer the better-- is very good

 

Brewer’s Yeast powder or tablets

 

Acne and NeemNeem kills the bacteria that cause acne and reduces the inflammation thatmakes it so noticeable. Neem-based creams have even improved the appearanceof people who have reddened skin from acne that ended years before. Toprevent and heal acne, first wash with neem soap, then use a neem face packto soothe and tighten the skin. Finally, apply a neem-based cream tomoisturize and condition the skin.Suggested products:Neem CapsulesNeem ExtractNeem OilNeem LotionNeem CremeNeem Soap

ness <iiz2c wrote:

 

 

 

Welcome Monica.... sorry you initiation was this... we're usually a great group with lots of info flying.... you'll learn much here... don't be afraid to ask or respond... Suzi

 

>>>>>Thanks very much Suzi! I'm interested in a question someone else already posed - about acne. I have had a problem with cystic acne since i was 16 yo (i'm 31 now). Long story.

MonicaFederal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

If I use Brewer's Yeast, I use the powder form and take it in the morning smoothie. Not too bad that way :-)

Lisa

 

-

Suzanne Nottmeier

herbal remedies

Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:45 AM

Re: [herbal remedies] acne

 

Have you done a search in the message archives.. also when I was young, an old professor told my mom about brewers yeast.... it really cleared up the acne as a young adolescent.... but yuck they only had powder back then....LOL we had it in cereal, oj, etc.... but it worked.... if you come up with a blank in the messages, keep hitting the next key till something comes up.... also in the member recipes it says

[Guest guest]

Hi Pearlmoon,

 

You can try that yes, with good results. Also you might try rinsing your neck and chin areas after washing with acv. Heck, rinse all of you with it after washing. It will only do good and the odor only lasts a few minutes.

 

HTH,

Don Quai

 

-

pearlmoon

herbal remedies

Sunday, January 12, 2003 5:48 PM

Re: [herbal remedies] acne

I have been having a problem with acne only lately. I had neck surgery andhad to wear a neck brace for three months. I'm out of it now thankgoodness. I got allot of acne around my neck and chin areas. I tried tokeep the brace clean as much as I could but it didn't seem to help. I havea facial steamer and I was thinking of trying some tea tree oil with thewater when I steam next. Is this a good idea? I've been hearing allotabout tea tree oil helping acne so I thought I might give this a try. I'mnot sure if it would be alright for me to inhale it or not, since it will bein a steam. Any advise?Pearlmoon-<rprairie<herbal remedies >Saturday, January 11, 2003 7:36 PM[herbal remedies] acne> For those of you that have acne and can not seen to get it to go> away, well you may not really have what we call acne. You may have> candidia dermatitis.Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

Tea tree oil is good in a facial steamer. Just start out with one

drop though to be sure it's not too strong. You can also dab it

directly on any acne spots.

 

Kim

 

herbal remedies , <pearlmoon@a...> wrote:

> I have been having a problem with acne only lately. I had neck

surgery and

> had to wear a neck brace for three months. I'm out of it now thank

> goodness. I got allot of acne around my neck and chin areas. I

tried to

> keep the brace clean as much as I could but it didn't seem to

help. I have

> a facial steamer and I was thinking of trying some tea tree oil

with the

> water when I steam next. Is this a good idea? I've been hearing

allot

> about tea tree oil helping acne so I thought I might give this a

try. I'm

> not sure if it would be alright for me to inhale it or not, since

it will be

> in a steam. Any advise?

>

> Pearlmoon

> -

> <rprairie@m...>

> <herbal remedies >

> Saturday, January 11, 2003 7:36 PM

> [herbal remedies] acne

>

>

> > For those of you that have acne and can not seen to get it to go

> > away, well you may not really have what we call acne. You may

have

> > candidia dermatitis.

[Guest guest]

Pure carrot juice that you can juice at home should do the trick.bta1012003 <bta101 wrote:

My son, aged 15, has bad acne. When I took him to the doctor, she put on medication. It worked after a few months. But, I find out the medication is also a depressant, which I do not want him to take any more. At present, he is taking multi-vitamins for teens, but his acne problem continues and seems to be getting worse. I am not sure what to do. I appreciate any suggestions.Thank you.Bta«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§ - PULSE ON WORLD HEALTH CONSPIRACIES! §Subscribe:......... - To :....

- Any information here in is for educational purpose only, it may be news related, purely speculation or someone's opinion. Always consult with a qualified health practitioner before deciding on any course of treatment, especially for serious or life-threatening illnesses.**COPYRIGHT NOTICE**In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107,any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml

 

A mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original dimension.

vote. - Register online to vote today!

[Guest guest]

Another option is Zinc Picolinate.

 

 

In a message dated 9/20/2004 9:16:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, tripplechocolate2000 writes:

 

Pure carrot juice that you can juice at home should do the trick.bta1012003 <bta101 wrote: My son, aged 15, has bad acne. When I took him to the doctor, she put on medication. It worked after a few months. But, I find out the medication is also a depressant, which I do not want him to take any more. At present, he is taking multi-vitamins for teens, but his acne problem continues and seems to be getting worse. I am not sure what to do. I appreciate any suggestions.Thank you.Bta«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§ - PULSE ON WORLD HEALTH CONSPIRACIES! §Subscribe:......... - To :.... - Any information here in is for educational purpose only, it may be news related, purely speculation or someone's opinion. Always consult with a qualified health practitioner before deciding on any course of treatment, especially for serious or life-threatening illnesses.**COPYRIGHT NOTICE**In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107,any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml

 

 

A mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original dimension.

 

 

vote. - Register online to vote today! «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§ - PULSE ON WORLD HEALTH CONSPIRACIES! §Subscribe:......... - To :.... - Any information here in is for educational purpose only, it may be news related, purely speculation or someone's opinion. Always consult with a qualified health practitioner before deciding on any course of treatment, especially for serious or life-threatening illnesses.**COPYRIGHT NOTICE**In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107,any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml

 

 

[Guest guest]

Good analysis. It is useful to note that most textbooks I've read on TCM

dermatology tend to cover branch pathologies, simply because the root

pathologies can be quite varied for any particular branch. Jason B's

elucidation of constrained heat was educational, but the S & S in this

particular case do not support it. Given the obvious KD Yang vacuity signs

(night urination, low back pain, many cold signs, swollen pale purple

toungue, weak pulse), it would be a stretch to consider this a case of true

heat/false cold. Obviously, giving this patient huge quantities of Shi Gao,

etc. will be diagnostic - if the patient gets much worse, loose stools,

stomach pain & nausea, colder, we can assume that he really IS cold. Or do

we just ignore the evidence and prescribe double the amount?

Isn't based on pattern diagnosis which includes all

available information about the patient? Or is it now just like WM, where we

pick and choose and discard what we can't explain as irrelevent (i.e. " This

is a common opinion of dermatology experts. One can easily get rapped [sic]

up in this or that zang-fu, liver stagnation this, yang xu this, and totally

miss the boat " [Jason B])? Textbooks never describe unique cases - that is

why common, representative cases are called " textbook cases " . We must never

limit our practice to what is most commonly done with what is most commonly

seen; the strength of CM is that even the uncommon can be explained, and

treated, within its heuristic paradigm.

 

Benjamin Hawes, MAOM, Lic. Ac.,

 

CORTEZ FAMILY ACUPUNCTURE

1430 E. Main Street, Suite #4

Cortez, CO 81321

(970) 565-0230

 

>

> Message: 9

> Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:09:38 -0000

> " folatib " <folatib

> Re: RE: acne case

>

> Hi

>

> I have been listening for a while on this group and this is the

> first time I have submitted anything to the list. Quick intro - I

> did preliminary studies in South Africa five years back and have

> been practising since then, currently completing further study (a

> bachelors degree in Ac) in Australia with one year to go.

>

> On this case i would like to humbly add that Kidney yang is also

> responsible for warming the liver and enabling it to perform its

> function properly, if kidney yang is insufficient liver qi

> stagnation will ensue, it seems obvious that this patient has kidney

> yang vacuity as evidenced by:-

>

> 1. hates cold weather

> 2. night time urination, awakening 2 to 3 times per night

> 3. low back stiffness upon awakening that goes away with movement

> 4. Tongue is swollen, pale with a purplish tinge

> 5. Pulse is weak and thin

> and 6. usually cold to the touch

>

> In turn liver qi stagnation will over time produce depressive heat

> which is one of the common patterns of acne (refer to " The treatment

> of external diseases with acupuncture and moxibustion " from Blue

> Poppy Press), the signs of liver qi stagnation present in this

> patient=

>

> 1. Abdomen shows tenderness on left side along ribs.

> 2. loud, opinionated, and with an edge that may be contained anger

>

> also, in the liver depression, qi stagnation pattern the lesions are

> less red and tend toward being dark purple

>

> In my humble opinion, probably the most important underlying pattern

> in his case would be the kidney yang xu and therefore your treatment

> should focus on invigorating kidney yang while at the same time

> secondarily coursing the liver and freeing the flow of qi and

> clearing depressive heat.

>

> Feroz

>

[Guest guest]

_____

 

Benjamin Hawes [ben_laura]

Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:32 AM

Chinese Medicine

RE: acne

 

 

 

 

 

Good analysis. It is useful to note that most textbooks I've read on TCM

dermatology tend to cover branch pathologies, simply because the root

pathologies can be quite varied for any particular branch.

 

[Jason]

 

I would completely disagree, and would like to see some source that says

this... Of course root pathologies can be varied but generally speaking

there a certain types of patterns that will yield acne (as with many

dermatological cases). These are mapped out.and we know that by treating

them the acne goes away! It is a common mistake IMO, and other Chinese

docs, that westerners get to rapped up in the underlying patterns which may

be true but really have nothing to do with the problem at hand. There

treatment 'lacks focus'. This is seen all the time in schools, everyone

gets xiao yao san because everyone has liver qi stag. And one cannot not

argue that these people don't have liver qi stag, but what happens is that

there branch (or problem they are coming in with) does not get better. The

patient may feel better, but the real issue is not hit! I am not denying

that kidney yang is possibly involved. But I have yet to see any evidence

that suggest that a kidney yang formula will help the acne. Show me some

case studies or citations otherwise you are creating theory to suit your

needs, which might make sense, but in essence is experimentation on the

patient IMO.

 

 

 

Jason B's

elucidation of constrained heat was educational, but the S & S in this

particular case do not support it. Given the obvious KD Yang vacuity signs

(night urination, low back pain, many cold signs, swollen pale purple

toungue, weak pulse), it would be a stretch to consider this a case of true

heat/false cold.

 

[Jason]

 

Do you think it is not possible to have kidney yang xu with heat? Of course

you can, and I am not talking about true heat/ false cold.

 

 

 

Obviously, giving this patient huge quantities of Shi Gao,

etc. will be diagnostic - if the patient gets much worse, loose stools,

stomach pain & nausea, colder, we can assume that he really IS cold.

 

[Jason]

 

I never suggested giving shi gao or anything of that nature.. I said one

should emphasize phlegm-stasis (a common acne dx)

 

 

Isn't based on pattern diagnosis which includes all

available information about the patient? Or is it now just like WM, where we

pick and choose and discard what we can't explain as irrelevant

 

[Jason]

 

Yes you can disregard certain information, this is strongly emphasized not

only by Chinese texts, but teachers I have studied with both derm and

internal medicine. The art of diagnosing is to understand the

pathomechanism of the Chief Complaint and understand what mechanisms are

contributing to that. The C.C. many times is one's focus! And many times

one must throw out contradictory s/s.and many times not address the root

root at all.. This is presented all over the place. It requires a focused

mind and this yields a focused treatment. Another common western mistake is

to dx every pattern under the sun. It is not uncommon for westerners to

have 4 organs involved in the dx. When one studies with the Chinese and

reads Chinese one see very fast that things are focused and the dx is

usually simple. To do this one must many times overlook certain things.

That is a major skill, IMO

 

 

 

(i.e. " This

is a common opinion of dermatology experts. One can easily get rapped [sic]

up in this or that zang-fu, liver stagnation this, yang xu this, and totally

miss the boat " [Jason B])? Textbooks never describe unique cases - that is

why common, representative cases are called " textbook cases " .

 

[Jason]

 

You have completely missed the point and the boat. 1st - experts are people

who have spent years playing with a disease and have found what REALLY

works, and don't have to muck around (or atleast most of the time). My

information is not just from text books, but journal articles which describe

clinical experience of famous doctors as well a 2 week seminar by Mazin

Al-Khafaji, who is IMO the best derm specialist in the west. He not only

gives the basic patterns (for acne) he discussed 15+ acne cases and how they

were addresses, (REAL LIFE) - demonstrating the ideas. One would quickly

notice no where in the 3 sources was there any yang tonic formula that cured

acne. This says a lot! Especially when someone is giving case studies to

show strange cases, if there was such a case one would surely present it.

You have a nice wrap, and am happy to here your thoughts, but please show us

some concrete examples, not just your opinion, unless you have multiple

cases that you have cured in this manner, then I question it. But by all

means present a case study or 2 if you have, and let us learn from you.

 

 

 

 

 

We must never

limit our practice to what is most commonly done with what is most commonly

seen; the strength of CM is that even the uncommon can be explained, and

treated, within its heuristic paradigm.

 

 

 

[Jason]

 

You may believe that you can do anything you want because you can

theoretically justify it, but I think unless you have 20+ years with i.e.

dermatology I would not trust anything you say that cannot be backed up. I

am open to the possibility, just lets see it. Without such experience, when

we have masters for 1000+ years figuring it out already, why would I not

trust what they have come up with, vs. a theory that may sound good on

paper, but has no foundation. just some thoughts..

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

 

 

 

Benjamin Hawes, MAOM, Lic. Ac.,

 

CORTEZ FAMILY ACUPUNCTURE

1430 E. Main Street, Suite #4

Cortez, CO 81321

(970) 565-0230

 

>

> Message: 9

> Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:09:38 -0000

> " folatib " <folatib

> Re: RE: acne case

>

> Hi

>

> I have been listening for a while on this group and this is the

> first time I have submitted anything to the list. Quick intro - I

> did preliminary studies in South Africa five years back and have

> been practising since then, currently completing further study (a

> bachelors degree in Ac) in Australia with one year to go.

>

> On this case i would like to humbly add that Kidney yang is also

> responsible for warming the liver and enabling it to perform its

> function properly, if kidney yang is insufficient liver qi

> stagnation will ensue, it seems obvious that this patient has kidney

> yang vacuity as evidenced by:-

>

> 1. hates cold weather

> 2. night time urination, awakening 2 to 3 times per night

> 3. low back stiffness upon awakening that goes away with movement

> 4. Tongue is swollen, pale with a purplish tinge

> 5. Pulse is weak and thin

> and 6. usually cold to the touch

>

> In turn liver qi stagnation will over time produce depressive heat

> which is one of the common patterns of acne (refer to " The treatment

> of external diseases with acupuncture and moxibustion " from Blue

> Poppy Press), the signs of liver qi stagnation present in this

> patient=

>

> 1. Abdomen shows tenderness on left side along ribs.

> 2. loud, opinionated, and with an edge that may be contained anger

>

> also, in the liver depression, qi stagnation pattern the lesions are

> less red and tend toward being dark purple

>

> In my humble opinion, probably the most important underlying pattern

> in his case would be the kidney yang xu and therefore your treatment

> should focus on invigorating kidney yang while at the same time

> secondarily coursing the liver and freeing the flow of qi and

> clearing depressive heat.

>

> Feroz

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

 

 

and adjust

accordingly.

 

If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being

delivered.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In my original post on this matter, I suggested Jin Gui Shen Shi Wan to

tonify Yang in order to adress an obvious Kidney Yang xu. In addition, I

mentioned substituting Sheng Di for Shu Di, then adding herbs to

specifically treat the branch, whatever presentation that may be. My

contention is that if you ignore the root, you will have side-effects. Jason

B. mentions experts. Until I see rigorous, well-documanted studies which

demonstrate that their approaches give superior results to historical CM

approaches without attendant side-effects (do we know that their patients

are better overall, not just their skin? Given the biomedicalization of CM

in China, this is not a given for me). I don't know Jason's experts, and I

cannot verify the quality or veracity of their proported knowledge, so I can

only discuss TCM theory. Many approaches will rid the acne without

addressing the root (see: Accutane), but these do not fit with Chinese

Medicine's tradition of seeking balance, not just syptomatic treatment.

 

Treat the root and treat the branch at the same time. Ignore the root, and

the patient's complaint may improve, but will be worse off in the long run.

Jason B. mentions Phlegm stagnation. What causes phlegm to stagnate? And how

can we keep it from not stagnating again? Treat the root. One may disagree,

but this is my point, take it or leave it.

 

Benjamin Hawes, MAOM, Lic. Ac.,

 

CORTEZ FAMILY ACUPUNCTURE

1430 E. Main Street, Suite #4

Cortez, CO 81321

(970) 565-0230

 

> Message: 7

> Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:58:27 -0600

> " "

> RE: RE: acne

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

> Benjamin Hawes [ben_laura]

> Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:32 AM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: acne

>

>

>

>

>

> Good analysis. It is useful to note that most textbooks I've read on TCM

> dermatology tend to cover branch pathologies, simply because the root

> pathologies can be quite varied for any particular branch.

>

> [Jason]

>

> I would completely disagree, and would like to see some source that says

> this... Of course root pathologies can be varied but generally speaking

> there a certain types of patterns that will yield acne (as with many

> dermatological cases). These are mapped out.and we know that by treating

> them the acne goes away! It is a common mistake IMO, and other Chinese

> docs, that westerners get to rapped up in the underlying patterns which

> may

> be true but really have nothing to do with the problem at hand. There

> treatment 'lacks focus'. This is seen all the time in schools, everyone

> gets xiao yao san because everyone has liver qi stag. And one cannot not

> argue that these people don't have liver qi stag, but what happens is that

> there branch (or problem they are coming in with) does not get better.

> The

> patient may feel better, but the real issue is not hit! I am not denying

> that kidney yang is possibly involved. But I have yet to see any evidence

> that suggest that a kidney yang formula will help the acne. Show me some

> case studies or citations otherwise you are creating theory to suit your

> needs, which might make sense, but in essence is experimentation on the

> patient IMO.

>

>

>

> Jason B's

> elucidation of constrained heat was educational, but the S & S in this

> particular case do not support it. Given the obvious KD Yang vacuity signs

> (night urination, low back pain, many cold signs, swollen pale purple

> toungue, weak pulse), it would be a stretch to consider this a case of

> true

> heat/false cold.

>

> [Jason]

>

> Do you think it is not possible to have kidney yang xu with heat? Of

> course

> you can, and I am not talking about true heat/ false cold.

>

>

>

> Obviously, giving this patient huge quantities of Shi Gao,

> etc. will be diagnostic - if the patient gets much worse, loose stools,

> stomach pain & nausea, colder, we can assume that he really IS cold.

>

> [Jason]

>

> I never suggested giving shi gao or anything of that nature.. I said one

> should emphasize phlegm-stasis (a common acne dx)

>

>

> Isn't based on pattern diagnosis which includes all

> available information about the patient? Or is it now just like WM, where

> we

> pick and choose and discard what we can't explain as irrelevant

>

> [Jason]

>

> Yes you can disregard certain information, this is strongly emphasized not

> only by Chinese texts, but teachers I have studied with both derm and

> internal medicine. The art of diagnosing is to understand the

> pathomechanism of the Chief Complaint and understand what mechanisms are

> contributing to that. The C.C. many times is one's focus! And many times

> one must throw out contradictory s/s.and many times not address the root

> root at all.. This is presented all over the place. It requires a

> focused

> mind and this yields a focused treatment. Another common western mistake

> is

> to dx every pattern under the sun. It is not uncommon for westerners to

> have 4 organs involved in the dx. When one studies with the Chinese and

> reads Chinese one see very fast that things are focused and the dx is

> usually simple. To do this one must many times overlook certain things.

> That is a major skill, IMO

>

>

>

> (i.e. " This

> is a common opinion of dermatology experts. One can easily get rapped

> [sic]

> up in this or that zang-fu, liver stagnation this, yang xu this, and

> totally

> miss the boat " [Jason B])? Textbooks never describe unique cases - that is

> why common, representative cases are called " textbook cases " .

>

> [Jason]

>

> You have completely missed the point and the boat. 1st - experts are

> people

> who have spent years playing with a disease and have found what REALLY

> works, and don't have to muck around (or atleast most of the time). My

> information is not just from text books, but journal articles which

> describe

> clinical experience of famous doctors as well a 2 week seminar by Mazin

> Al-Khafaji, who is IMO the best derm specialist in the west. He not only

> gives the basic patterns (for acne) he discussed 15+ acne cases and how

> they

> were addresses, (REAL LIFE) - demonstrating the ideas. One would quickly

> notice no where in the 3 sources was there any yang tonic formula that

> cured

> acne. This says a lot! Especially when someone is giving case studies to

> show strange cases, if there was such a case one would surely present it.

> You have a nice wrap, and am happy to here your thoughts, but please show

> us

> some concrete examples, not just your opinion, unless you have multiple

> cases that you have cured in this manner, then I question it. But by all

> means present a case study or 2 if you have, and let us learn from you.

>

>

>

>

>

> We must never

> limit our practice to what is most commonly done with what is most

> commonly

> seen; the strength of CM is that even the uncommon can be explained, and

> treated, within its heuristic paradigm.

>

>

>

> [Jason]

>

> You may believe that you can do anything you want because you can

> theoretically justify it, but I think unless you have 20+ years with i.e.

> dermatology I would not trust anything you say that cannot be backed up.

> I

> am open to the possibility, just lets see it. Without such experience,

> when

> we have masters for 1000+ years figuring it out already, why would I not

> trust what they have come up with, vs. a theory that may sound good on

> paper, but has no foundation. just some thoughts..

>

>

>

> -

Benjamin Hawes, MAOM, Lic. Ac.,

> Director

>

> CORTEZ FAMILY ACUPUNCTURE

> 1430 E. Main Street, Suite #4

> Cortez, CO 81321

> (970) 565-0230

>

> >

[Guest guest]

Can anyone recommend anything for diminishing pimples quickly?

Or if anything can be recommended for tightening small pores?

Thank you so much ~ I really really love this group.

 

Sandy

 

Did you know... if a child is diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 5, by

the time they are 18, they will have endured at least an average of over 24,000

finger pokes?

 

" Insulin Is Not A Cure - It's A Bandaid "

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Mix red sandalwoo, orange peal powder and cucumber juice to the consistency of toothpaste. Apply it over the affected part, starting from the lower part to the upper part. aAfter 30 minutes, wash it off and apply any moisteriser. Continue for some weeks and see the results.

with best regards.

MJ GSandy Nieman <nieman wrote:

Can anyone recommend anything for diminishing pimples quickly?Or if anything can be recommended for tightening small pores?Thank you so much ~ I really really love this group.SandyDid you know... if a child is diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 5, by the time they are 18, they will have endured at least an average of over 24,000 finger pokes? "Insulin Is Not A Cure - It's A Bandaid"

Too much spam in your inbox? Mail gives you the best spam protection for FREE!http://in.mail.

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr Bhate

 

Which of your posts would you recommend for help with acne - a 17 year old woman

is troubled with this facial, scarring problem and her mother has approached me

from another country and I wanted to refer to your own works and found many

things through several posts.

 

Thanks for your help

 

Best,

 

Jane

[Guest guest]

Acne is a classical symptom in PCOS. If accompanied with hair loss,

painful menses, clots, arrhythmia/palpitation (not all need to be

present, anyone will do), one may suspect PCOS beginning driven by pitta.

Fasting

sugar and serum insulin levels may be useful markers to judge, suggested here

since remote patient. Vaidya should not suggest any modern tests. Darkening of

skin on knees, elbow-joint, back side of neck, ankle bone, groin, arm-pits. skin

tags, brownish spots of wheat grain size on cheeks where acne normally show up,

excess fat near navel, double chin, so many indications!!

 

for girls skin is the indicator of their hormone balance.

 

Try this simple pitta pacifying and haromone balance remedies:

 

Overnight soaked 4 dates + 2 almonds, eat at breakfast time, drink

soaked water.

 

1 tsp fenugreek seeds, soak overnight in a cup of water, drink only

soaked water empty stomach next morning.

 

If available, the decoction of ten herbs given in the beginning of

message 1134 will be useful to reduce pitta.

 

1/4 tsp cinnamon powder+ 1 tbsp honey mixture, apply to face and wash

off using milk after 30 minutes.

 

Acne is one condition where thousands of creams are available OTC.

but being hormone driven, generally nothing OTC works.

 

An equal mixture of Aswagandha, Shatawari and Licorice powders, take

1 tsp on tongue and swallow with 1/2 cup milk, twice a day, will also

be useful. Expect 3 weeks to see the change.

 

Acne is a symptom, not disease condition, this is first post

discussing acne exclusively.

 

ayurveda , " Jane MacRoss "

<highfield1 wrote:

> Which of your posts would you recommend for help with acne - a 17

year old woman is troubled with this facial, scarring problem and her

mother has approached me from another country and I wanted to refer

to your own works and found many things through several posts.

[Guest guest]

Dear Shirish Bhate

If vaidya should not suggest any modern tests, then should not the modern

diagnostic terminology like PCOS also be avoided?

I personally feel that there should be no prejudice towards anything that adds

to our knowledge in understanding the patient's diseased condition in a better

sense.

 

 

Dr.D.B.Muzumdar

M.D.Ayu-Med

< dahpc >

-

Shirish Bhate

<snip> Fasting

sugar and serum insulin levels may be useful markers to judge, suggested here

since remote patient. Vaidya should not suggest any modern tests. Darkening of

skin on knees, elbow-joint, back side of neck, ankle bone, groin, arm-pits. skin

tags, brownish spots of wheat grain size on cheeks where acne normally show up,

excess fat near navel, double chin, so many indications!!

<snip>

[Guest guest]

When we are catering for a world wide range of participants on a large list like

this one, surely there are many of us who appreciate any practitioner who is

kind enough to speak several languages in one email?

 

Jane

_______

If vaidya should not suggest any modern tests, then should not the modern

diagnostic terminology like PCOS also be avoided?

[Guest guest]

Dear Jane,

The truth and essence of Ayurveda should prevail, that is my effort.

No Ayurvedic doctor keeps a long beard, long hair, wears bark clothes and wooden

sandals just to show that he is Ayurvedic. He wears a contemporary dress like

shirt ,pant and other formal wear consistent with pevalent times and situations.

Same rule should be applied to modern technical advances and gadgetery in

relation to Ayurveda.

Does a Ayurvedic doctor not wear specacles, use a pen or drive a car or use any

other modern means of travel or take advantage of modern gadgets like computer?

Does he travel on horse or in a bullock-cart?

We try to correlate all things with the time of Ayurvedic documentation, rather

than correlating with the principles and thinking process of Ayurveda. For

example, to stay healthy, Ayurveda advises use of purified water. Now you boil

it, use alum, use Nirmali seeds or a water purifier is the user's prerogative.

Ayurveda gives a giude-line and direction, it does not dictate the means to

follow it. But the documented Ayurveda has given references to the usages

prevalent in those past times. This does not mean that we should get bound to

the time-capsule mechanism and be held in the past.

 

SAMSKARAN -the ever evolving process of upgradation has been upheld in Charaka

Samhita itself. This view-point should be acceped by all those who really love

Ayurveda.

 

Dr.D.B.Muzumdar

M.D.Ayu-Med

< dahpc >

-

Jane MacRoss

When we are catering for a world wide range of participants on a large list

like this one, surely there are many of us who appreciate any practitioner who

is kind enough to speak several languages in one email?

[Guest guest]

I am currently studying Clincial Herbal medicine

I do find that it is good to have the names of

diseases in order to understand a bit about what is

happening and have a frame of reference in which to

discuss things,

but once the allopathic name is there we must still

look behind it to see what is really happening

we must still look and dhatus and bhutas which are missing in allopathy

 

also, the tests available are good, but I have often

noticed things that go missed by x-rays, blood tests

etc and have had this varrified when I tell a patient

to go back and ask the doctor to test something and

they find it there and realize it has been overlooked.

I find a lot of times that the diagnosis with a name

enables people to get attached to the disease

how many times have you heard people say :my diabetes "

Once they can name it they can further manifest it

 

--- muzumdar <dahpc wrote:

 

> Dear Jane,

> The truth and essence of Ayurveda should prevail,

> that is my effort.

> No Ayurvedic doctor keeps a long beard, long hair,

> wears bark clothes and wooden sandals just to show

> that he is Ayurvedic. He wears a contemporary dress

> like shirt ,pant and other formal wear consistent

> with pevalent times and situations. Same rule should

> be applied to modern technical advances and

> gadgetery in relation to Ayurveda.

<snip>