Guest guest Report post Posted May 6, 1999 In a message dated 5/6/99 5:55:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, arcanta writes: << if we are not God incarnating for self-realization, then what are we? Something else? What can exist outside of " God " ? >> All of creation is an expression of God; God seeks to experience Itself through Its creation. So, the spiritual path is God seeking God. Jody Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 6, 1999 By the way Thomas, I'm agreeing with your statement that God is all there is. And if that be the case, the one who is doing the seeking is God. All of the blocks to our experiencing our divine nature are nothing but lilas...remembering what Swamiji said about this whole existence being nothing but a play of the divine. This existence is God's play and it is all just for fun. This universe is God's sandbox, His playground. I think it is important for us to celebrate Maya rather than resisting it and attempting to struggle our way through it to what is " real " . The " Real " and the " Unreal " are opposite sides of the same coin. It is all God! Maya is Shakti's wonderful play of consciousness. What fun! Om Shanti! Jody (Premadevi) <A HREF= " http://members.aol.com/JodyHolly1/index.html " >Be Still and Know - Jody Holly </A> http://members.aol.com/JodyHolly1/index.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 7, 1999 ><< Aren't we ALL incarnations of God, striving for that realization? If not, >then what? >> > No! , not necesarily. i was saying >the word " incarnation " reffering to the relative plain. I guess it's just a matter of semantics, then...Yet I still hold to the question: if we are not God incarnating for self-realization, then what are we? Something else? What can exist outside of " God " ? Tat Tvam Asi, Thomas __ " WE ARE EACH OUR OWN PATH. " ------------------- find yourself at the Arcanta website www.arcanta.com **************************************************** Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 7, 1999 > JodyHolly1 > > In a message dated 5/6/99 5:55:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > arcanta writes: > > << if we are not God incarnating for self-realization, then what are we? > Something else? What can exist outside of " God " ? >> > > All of creation is an expression of God; God seeks to experience Itself > through Its creation. So, the spiritual path is God seeking God. Why does God want to " experience Itself through Its creation " ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 8, 1999 In a message dated 5/8/99 1:04:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, anurag writes: << Why does God want to " experience Itself through Its creation " ? >> There are some things to which we do not have answers. Thank God! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 8, 1999 >Anurag Goel <anurag > > >> JodyHolly1 >> >> In a message dated 5/6/99 5:55:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >> arcanta writes: >> >> << if we are not God incarnating for self-realization, then what are we? >> Something else? What can exist outside of " God " ? >> > >> >> All of creation is an expression of God; God seeks to experience Itself >> through Its creation. So, the spiritual path is God seeking God. > >Why does God want to " experience Itself through Its creation " ? Why not ??? > > >------ >ONElist: where real people with real interests get connected. > >Join today! >------ >Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah >Vivekananda Centre London >http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 8, 1999 [This message contained attachments] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 8, 1999 On Sat, 8 May 1999, ananta wrote: > ananta <sarada > > >Anurag Goel <anurag > > > > > >> JodyHolly1 > >> > >> In a message dated 5/6/99 5:55:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > >> arcanta writes: > >> > >> << if we are not God incarnating for self-realization, then what are we? > >> Something else? What can exist outside of " God " ? >> > > > >> > >> All of creation is an expression of God; God seeks to experience Itself > >> through Its creation. So, the spiritual path is God seeking God. > > > >Why does God want to " experience Itself through Its creation " ? > > > Why not ??? Wat does God want to learn by experiencing ? He already knows all. Hope God doesn't feel idle w/o creation What was the reason for creating this brahmand n all beings ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 8, 1999 On Thu, 6 May 1999 JodyHolly1 wrote: > JodyHolly1 > > By the way Thomas, I'm agreeing with your statement that God is all there is. > And if that be the case, the one who is doing the seeking is God. > > All of the blocks to our experiencing our divine nature are nothing but > lilas...remembering what Swamiji said about this whole existence being > nothing but a play of the divine. This existence is God's play and it is all > just for fun. This universe is God's sandbox, His playground. I think it > is important for us to celebrate Maya rather than resisting it and attempting > to struggle our way through it to what is " real " . The " Real " and the > " Unreal " are opposite sides of the same coin. It is all God! Maya is > Shakti's wonderful play of consciousness. What fun! > > Om Shanti! > Jody (Premadevi) > <A HREF= " http://members.aol.com/JodyHolly1/index.html " >Be Still and Know - > Jody Holly > </A> > http://members.aol.com/JodyHolly1/index.html > Than why good n bad ? Why does Lord want a play field ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 8, 1999 On Sat, 8 May 1999 JodyHolly1 wrote: > JodyHolly1 > > In a message dated 5/8/99 1:04:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > anurag writes: > > << Why does God want to " experience Itself through Its creation " ? >> > There are some things to which we do not have answers. Thank God! > u know there is one incident of vedic times . A Rishi(I not able to recall name) who was kind of all perfect in knowledge challenged all in a shastraarth. No one dared opposed him than an intelligent woman named Gaargi said i wil ask questions n u answer They started with something like Gaargi : where is earth contained ? Rishi : In solar system Gaargi : Wat is beyond solar system ? Rishi : Galaxy Gaargi : Wat is beyond Galaxy ? Rishi : Brahamand ( Universe) Gaargi : Wat is beyond Universe ? Rishi : Don't ask too many questions or ur head will burst None was declared as winner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 8, 1999 On Sun, 9 May 1999, Su wrote: > >>Why does God want to " experience Itself through Its creation " ? > > > It is itself as the creation. > It is not that it experiences itself. > In that it exists It is itself. > Thus, cosmos and god are non-different. > . Ur answer do make sense but still Why does this cosmos exist ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 8, 1999 At 02:03 AM 5/9/99 +0530, you wrote: >Anurag Goel <anurag > >Ur answer do make sense but still > >Why does this cosmos exist ? This cosmos does not exist in a real sense. Does a glass jar exist in a real sense? No, it is a shape made of glass. In the same way, this cosmos does not exist, it is a shape made of Nirguna Brahman (God without attributes, the Supreme). Hari OM, Tim ----- Visit The Core of the WWW at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics. Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 9, 1999 > Anurag Goel <anurag > > ananta <sarada > > >Anurag Goel <anurag > > >> JodyHolly1 > > >> In a message dated 5/6/99 5:55:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > >> arcanta writes: > > >> > > >> << if we are not God incarnating for self-realization, then what are we? > > >> Something else? What can exist outside of " God " ? >> > > >> > > >> All of creation is an expression of God; God seeks to experience Itself > > >> through Its creation. So, the spiritual path is God seeking God. > > > > > >Why does God want to " experience Itself through Its creation " ? > > > > Why not ??? > > Wat does God want to learn by experiencing ? He already knows all. > Hope God doesn't feel idle w/o creation > > What was the reason for creating this brahmand n all beings ? Hello, It's an interesthing point that is brouth up here, The action of God seeking God would it not generate or be an act of Creation in itself? and why is it that Is Object of Creation come to see Itself as different from God, for one to come to need reasons for things... In the world of the Kabbala, it's the second veil of the negative existence 'AIN SOPH' the Limitles Nothingness, that we never know for it never descend to our ignorance and it's over our wisdom itself. At least it is _there_ since eternity when even ignorance and wisdom come to melt into each other... Antoine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 9, 1999 In a message dated 5/9/99 12:05:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, drifter1 writes: << .A question about why God wants to experience itself through creation. >> Vivekananda says: " We may well say that we are all playing in this universe. Just as children play their games, just as the most glorious kings and emperors play their own games so is the beloved Lord Himself playing in this universe. He is perfect. He does not want anything. Why should He create? Activity, with us, is always for the fulfilment of a certain want; and want always presupposes imperfection. God is perfect. He has no wants. Why should He go on with this incessant work of creation? What purpose could He have in View? The stories of God's creating the world for some end or other that we imagine, are good as stories, but not otherwise. It is all really sport; the universe is merely His play. The whole universe must after all be a big piece of pleasing fun to Him. If you are poor enjoy being poor, as fun; if you are rich enjoy the fun of being rich; if dangers come it is also good fun; if happiness comes there is more good fun. The world is just a playground, and we are here having good fun, having a game; and God is playing with us all the while, and we are playing with Him. God is our eternal playmate. How beautifully He is playing! The play is finished when the cycle comes to an end. There is rest for a shorter or longer time; again all come out and play. It is only when you forget that it is all play and that you are also helping in the play --- it is only then that misery and sorrows come, that the heart becomes heavy, that the world weighs upon you with tremendous power. But as soon as you give up your serious belief in the reality of the changing incidents of the three minutes of life, and know it to be but a state on which you are playing, helping Him to play, at once misery ceases for you. He plays in every atom. he is playing when He is building up earths and suns and moons. He is playing with the human heart, with animals, with plants. We are His chessmen; He puts the chessmen on the board and shakes them up. He arranges us first in one way and then in another, and we consciously or unconsciously help in His play. And oh, bliss! We are His playmates. " -Swami Vivekananda " Bhakti Yoga " <A HREF= " http://members.aol.com/JodyHolly1/index.html " >Be Still and Know - Jody Holly </A> http://members.aol.com/JodyHolly1/index.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 9, 1999 I am rather new to this newsgroup, and I'm finding very interesting...A question about why God wants to experience itself through creation...Why not? As I try to watch the world in all its variations, I can only come to one conclusion, God has a great sense of humor, and this is all God's Zoo!! After all, you would have to have a sense of humor to invent a giraffe. - <JodyHolly1 <Ramakrishna > Saturday, May 08, 1999 8:08 AM Re: [ramakrishna] hmmm... > JodyHolly1 > > In a message dated 5/8/99 1:04:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > anurag writes: > > << Why does God want to " experience Itself through Its creation " ? >> > There are some things to which we do not have answers. Thank God! > > ------ > ONElist: where the world talks! > > Join today. > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 10, 1999 Jody, While certainly more literate than my message, I think that you are saying the same thing, its all the play of Maya. Our sense of free will is the choices we make regarding the divine play. Personally I don't think I have the ability to understand these universal questions, but as a Buddhist once told me, " Its ok to just be making progress, to just keep moving on. " I am also finding the ongoing discussion about woman in the Gospel kind of interesting. Personally, I prefer to look to the feminine aspect of God as my own Higher Power. After all if there wasn't a Higher Power then I would be the the most powerful being in the universe.....that is a really scary thought. So, enjoy the divine play. After all, its our choice to see the good or the bad in every situation, Its up to our free will drifter - <JodyHolly1 <Ramakrishna > Sunday, May 09, 1999 12:20 PM Re: [ramakrishna] hmmm... > JodyHolly1 > > In a message dated 5/9/99 12:05:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, drifter1 > writes: > > << .A > question about why God wants to experience itself through creation. >> > > Vivekananda says: > > " We may well say that we are all playing in this universe. Just as children > play their games, just as the most glorious kings and emperors play their own > games so is the beloved Lord Himself playing in this universe. He is perfect. > He does not want anything. Why should He create? Activity, with us, is always > for the fulfilment of a certain want; and want always presupposes > imperfection. God is perfect. He has no wants. Why should He go on with this > incessant work of creation? What purpose could He have in View? The stories > of God's creating the world for some end or other that we imagine, are good > as stories, but not otherwise. It is all really sport; the universe is merely > His play. The whole universe must after all be a big piece of pleasing fun to > Him. If you are poor enjoy being poor, as fun; if you are rich enjoy the fun > of being rich; if dangers come it is also good fun; if happiness comes there > is more good fun. The world is just a playground, and we are here having good > fun, having a game; and God is playing with us all the while, and we are > playing with Him. God is our eternal playmate. How beautifully He is playing! > The play is finished when the cycle comes to an end. There is rest for a > shorter or longer time; again all come out and play. > > It is only when you forget that it is all play and that you are also helping > in the play --- it is only then that misery and sorrows come, that the heart > becomes heavy, that the world weighs upon you with tremendous power. But as > soon as you give up your serious belief in the reality of the changing > incidents of the three minutes of life, and know it to be but a state on > which you are playing, helping Him to play, at once misery ceases for you. He > plays in every atom. he is playing when He is building up earths and suns and > moons. He is playing with the human heart, with animals, with plants. We are > His chessmen; He puts the chessmen on the board and shakes them up. He > arranges us first in one way and then in another, and we consciously or > unconsciously help in His play. And oh, bliss! We are His playmates. " > > -Swami Vivekananda > " Bhakti Yoga " > <A HREF= " http://members.aol.com/JodyHolly1/index.html " >Be Still and Know - > Jody Holly > </A> > http://members.aol.com/JodyHolly1/index.html > > ------ > What's " Grow to Give " ? > > It's a new incentive program at ONElist. See homepage for details. > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > > Vivekananda Centre London > > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 10, 1999 > > << Why does God want to " experience Itself through Its creation " ? >> > > There are some things to which we do not have answers. Thank God! > > > Namaste > > Here is my 2 cents worth. The above question arises out of ignorance. > Who is asking this question? Is that a potentially divine person or a > divine person. If you are a potentially divine person (i.e. a Jiva in > ignorance), then forever you keep asking this question and will never find > the answer. The moment you find the answer, then you realise that you are > divine. At that moment, if that divine person asks this same question, > then it would be: God is asking God why God created. God is asking God > why God wants to experience. Isn't it funny? The question itself proves > that the questioner is ignorant. The only way to find the answer is to > ask these instead: Who am I? Why am I asking this question? Who is this > questioner? By God's grace, we'll find the answer. > > Om SHanti > Kathi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 10, 1999 In a message dated 5/10/99 10:13:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kathirasan writes: << The above question arises out of ignorance. > Who is asking this question? Is that a potentially divine person or a > divine person. If you are a potentially divine person (i.e. a Jiva in > ignorance), then forever you keep asking this question and will never find > the answer. >> Kathi, No one is ignorant since we are all God; sometimes God plays the part of being ignorant, but The Truth resides deep within everyone's heart and soul. Seeking is part of the Divine Play also, and a major part of seeking is questioning. So, I encourage everyone to continue to ask questions, since the questioner is not ignorant, but Divine. It is God seeking Itself. I feel that in the interest of openness and safety, we keep our personal judgements to ourselves in this arena, so that we may encourage free and open exchange. There are no stupid questions or comments in this Divine play. Namaste! Jody Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 1999 > Kathi, > > No one is ignorant since we are all God; sometimes God plays the part of > being ignorant, but The Truth resides deep within everyone's heart and > soul. > Seeking is part of the Divine Play also, and a major part of seeking is > questioning. So, I encourage everyone to continue to ask questions, since > > the questioner is not ignorant, but Divine. It is God seeking Itself. > > I feel that in the interest of openness and safety, we keep our personal > judgements to ourselves in this arena, so that we may encourage free and > open > exchange. There are no stupid questions or comments in this Divine play. > > > Namaste! > > Jody _________________ Namaste Jody Sorry if I had offended you in the first reply. But please let me explain my contention. As Jivas, we are all ignorant. The term itself implies the individual, 'cause there was never an indviduality. Swamiji was also very careful in saying this. He would usually say that everyone is not Divine, but POTENTIALLY Divine. This has to be understood. If not the moral laws and everything would not be relevant anymore. Then for every crime committed, there will be this convenient excuse: I didn't do it, but god did it! Please do not take it that I am against questioning. The desire for fulfillment causes all these actions such seeking, questioning etc..... But the question should be directed correctly. Regarding questions such as " why God did this and that " is itself demeaning God. Swamiji used to say that a 'why' can never be ascribed to God. That means to find a cause to that which is beyond cause and effect. So by reasoning God's intentions we bring the transcendental to the phenomenal. Apologies if you find the above offensive, but it is never my intention. Peace & Love, Kathi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 1999 Dear Kathi, All is divine. All is God. We are all God's creation. I have read everything that Swamiji said and His consistent message is that we are all God. It is NOT that we are POTENTIALLY GOD. We ARE God. Ignorance is a game that God plays. In other words, God likes to play hide and seek. (Hee Hee) All of creation is God playing. My post on Sunday was a direct quote from Swamiji about God playing through us, through this creation. I encourage all to write whatever they feel moved to write and question in whatever way they feel moved to question the teachings of Vedanta. Everyone needs to be honored where they are at. By the way, I did not understand your statement about ignorance to be personal, so no need for an apology my dear. You have a wonderful day. Jody Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 1999 I have a wonderful story to share. At least, it was a wonderful experience for me. In 1983, I moved into a new apartment with my daughter. I was very careful to choose an apartment complex that was safe and clean and in which the tenants seemed respectable. As I was unpacking my car to move in, a man walked up to me and shook my hand and said, " Hi. I'm your neighbor. I live upstairs from you. " I was aghast since he had tatoos all over his body, was wearing a black leather jacket and had earrings in the strangest places. He had just parked his Harley Davidson. I was filled with fear. I thought to myself, " What have I done? I can't live here. " The sight of him and what he represented frightened me. But suddenly, the thought occurred to me, " Wait. This man is God too. He is divine. " In that moment, I softened towards him. He then reached out his arms to me to assist me in carrying my boxes to my apartment; he helped me set up my television antenna and though he and I never became friends, he was always available to help me. I know he experienced the shift in my consciousness and responded to that shift. That experience transformed my life. When I see everyone as God, the way we are taught in Vedanta, the world responds with love and reverence. We all know that all prejudice no matter what it may be is fear-based, but to keep our focus on God in everything and everyone brings us beyond fear to Truth. That practice helps me in my relationships with others when conflicts arise. It works to see the other as God, and say a prayer for their well-being when fear or anger or criticism occurs. Emmett Fox talks about " Golden Key-ing " a problem. In other words, when faced with a difficulty, immediately focus on God. Bring all thoughts to God rather than focusing on the problem. It works. It really does. Jesus said, " Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. " To me that means that as our hearts are purified through spiritual practices, we shall see God everywhere, in everyone and everything. This is the PRACTICE of Vedanta as it has been given to us by our teachers. Intellectual knowledge is one wing of the bird of spiritual freedom. The other wing is the practice of it, not just formally in meditation and prayer, but in the way we live and interact with others. This aspect of Vedanta has been the most joyful and spiritually stimulating for me. To live what is taught and to discover how simple it is, is a boon to spiritual integrity. It requires vigilance and may not always be easy, but the practices are simple, straightforward. I would love to heard about the practice of Vedanta as experienced by others on this listserv. In the light and love of our teachers, Jody Hoelle (Premadevi) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 1999 In a message dated 5/11/99 10:10:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, fewtch writes: << The point is, now we have to know this. >> The point is, whether we know it or not, it is still the Truth. The sun is always shining even though we cannot see it on cloudy days. The Self is always lighting our way even though we do not know that. God decides when we realize our Divine Nature. In the meantime, He gets to play hide and seek to His heart's delight. Love, Jody Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 1999 At 09:09 AM 5/11/99 +0800, you wrote: >K Kathirasan ADM NCS <kathirasan > Sorry if I had offended you in the first reply. But please let me >explain my contention. As Jivas, we are all ignorant. The term itself >implies the individual, 'cause there was never an indviduality. Swamiji was >also very careful in saying this. He would usually say that everyone is not >Divine, but POTENTIALLY Divine. This is not true. Everyone is Divine, but not aware of it, due to ignorance. Being unaware of our essential divinity, it is of no use. If a person had a large brick of gold hidden away in the basement, but wasn't aware it was there, would it do them any good? They would be monetarily rich, but not know it. So it is with our divinity. We are already divine, already One with Brahman. The point is, now we have to know this. We are already rich spiritually, but don't know the " numbers " to our own " bank accounts. " Hari OM, Tim ----- Visit The Core of the WWW at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics. Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 12, 1999 In a message dated 5/11/99 6:51:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kathirasan writes: << This is not true. Everyone is Divine, but not aware of it, due to >ignorance. That is exactly what I am trying to say. We are ignorant if it. >> If we SAY we are ignorant of it, then we are ignorant of it. Jody Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 12, 1999 Namaste >This is not true. Everyone is Divine, but not aware of it, due to >ignorance. That is exactly what I am trying to say. We are ignorant if it. >Being unaware of our essential divinity, it is of no use. If a >person had a large brick of gold hidden away in the basement, but wasn't >aware it was there, would it do them any good? I am not saying that being ignorant is good. Nobody wants to be ignorant. > They would be monetarily >rich, but not know it. So it is with our divinity. We are already divine, >already One with Brahman. The point is, now we have to know this. If we are already divine then what is the point in having to know this? But if you add a 'potential' to the divine, then there can be chance in knowing it. The seed is capable of being a tree but it is not the tree. Swamiji knows the tree and the seed. > We are >already rich spiritually, but don't know the " numbers " to our own " bank >accounts. " I agree we don't know. That is why we need the authority of someone like Swamiji who has seen it. :-) Om SHanti Kathi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
